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4 April 2013 at 10:30 #4151
Haha – bet DELSA global are wondering why their website traffic has spiked this week!!
4 April 2013 at 08:55 #4149@jamesunderscore There are some musings on DELSA upstream somewhere, this thread. You’re right, it’s intriguing. It’s not an obvious fake, but it’s a strange combination of letters to come up with by accident, it’s stange to ref a real company and Data-Enabled Life Science Alliance sounds like a very Who-ish sort of thing.
4 April 2013 at 08:51 #4147So how many duplicate Doctors do you reckon are possible…? From what we’ve seen so far (bearing in mind Moff likes to seed things in) –
Red bow tie/blue bow tie – 2 different time streams (no 1 theory obv 🙂 Ha! they laughed at us once!!)
Flesh Dr
Tesselecter Dr
Spoonhead Dr
10.2 Dr
Bonkers theory no 922(ii) – Series 7.2 ends in a big hall of mirrors with millions of Doctors (reflections, clones and duplicates) and no idea how to tell them apart 🙂 (like the end of orig Bruce Lee Kung Fu movie (can’t remember name,sorry))
OR… (old theory time) the Doctor’s been dalekised/GI’d and needs to remember who he is in order to put everything right again. (The “question must never be asked” is because when it’s answered (“I’M Who” (truthful if not gramatical!) the baddies lose))
4 April 2013 at 08:38 #4143Welcome from me too to @edmund and @jamesunderscore
Interesting thoughts re the leaf… clones huh? The Dr really did react strangely to it – like there was something not quite right about it. And that leafish sort of shape given prominence on the next poster.
@bluesqueakpip – that was well spotted. Wonder if she’s called Clara as a tribute to ES? Lovely idea that it was S-J who gave Clara the Dr’s phone no but is there any evidence she had it? I think has to be River or Rose. (sorry)
3 April 2013 at 18:35 #4115I went thro a big Iain Banks phase in the 80s. The Bridge, Espedair St, The Wasp Factory in particular seeped into my brain. I also remember being blown away by Consider Phlebus and Player of Games particularly because this was a UK author (and a Scottish one at that) who could write “big” scifi to challenge the US icons like Heinlein. Comes over as a really nice man in real life, and kudos to him for never playing the “celebrity” game
3 April 2013 at 08:05 #4103@wolfweed Thanks for the interview link above, really nice one. Couple of things I picked up on –
facing the Crimson Horror in Victorian Yorkshire,
Crimson? As in Crimson, petrichor…??
And on companions – this ain’t gonna please the people who want the Doctor to be central, but it’s interesting, and makes it very clear where he’s coming from –
It’s the person to whom the story happens. A hero is somebody who saves the day, and who you stand back and admire, and that’s the Doctor. But, for the story to have an emotional connection, it has to happen to somebody. The Doctor himself has to happen to somebody. So, very often in Doctor Who, the companion is the main character. Not the hero, not the one with all the cool lines and not the one with all the cool moments, but is the person who has this experience, and we get to see how it changes them. We never see how the Doctor began his journey, we’ll probably never see how he ends it, and we’ll probably never know why he embarked on it, but we know all those companions, who they were before they met the Doctor, why they ran away from him, and roughly where they ended up. Those stories are complete. The Doctor is the enigma that enters their lives and changes them. The story is always about the person that changes the most, rather than necessarily being about the person who affects those changes.
3 April 2013 at 07:42 #4101@wolfweed – no, you’re gettng the blame for starting off the terrible puns and general hysteria, LOL
2 April 2013 at 21:35 #40832 April 2013 at 21:34 #4081But the joke which occurs to me is that it’s a clever riff on the way Nu-Who depends heavily on computer-generated special effects. The show has had to become very computer-literate.
So if we put that together with @juniperfish‘s arcane knowledge of shipping terms (I’ve learned a LOT tonight!)… and put Clara and the Great Intelligence together, we get… CGI
TaDa!!!
<it’s the last coat on the stand! got it. gone!! >
2 April 2013 at 15:01 #4021@Blusqueakpip 4!!!
That’s just taking the piss! New rule just issued for Guardian bloggers – every blog published from now on must contain a Who ref in the title in order to boost comments and views. Either that or you are right and they know more than they are telling about the nature of Clara’s splintered self. (4 dimensions??? @blenkinsopthebrave‘s 4th wall in action?)
<brain goes into meltdown>
2 April 2013 at 14:55 #4019<waves, and grabs a coffee>
Just found this and wanted to share. Seriously creepy, tho not really Who related (3rd cousin, 4 times removed maybe) – new poem by Neil Gaiman – called House
@jimthefish and @haveyoufedthefish LOL, sorry but NO-ONE’s as bad as Bonnie L (aagh! shuddering even at part of her name!)
Re Gaurdain blogs – do you think they know more than us? Is this splitting into 3 significant?? (Power of 3, multiple Drs etc etc)
1 April 2013 at 19:52 #3983Just nipping in to post this https://twitter.com/bbcdoctorwho
Not sure how it works if you’re not a tweeter but they’ve just tweeted new pics from just after the readthrough today. Plus a slightly odd one of John Hurt in that it looks like it’s from a filmed bit rather than the readthrough. But maybe it’s from a different role of they’ve photoshopped in a suitable background. <excited squeals!>
1 April 2013 at 10:08 #3943@bluesqueakpip It’s really annoying that the rest of the world seems to be getting more Who tributes than the UK 🙁
So far we’ve definitely got – An Adventure in… documentary and the 50th special in 3D and possibly 60mins – which will presumably be broadcast worldwide anyway. And a lot of doubt re when series 8 is going to be recorded, never mind aired. That ain’t “all over TV” in my book!
<OMG I’m turning into @jimthefish!!!>
1 April 2013 at 10:03 #3941@chickenelly I’d go for the Easter egg hunting. Although maybe it’s not so bad – haven’t seen it since I was about 8/9 – couldn’t get past that it seemed like a huge cash-in without any understandng of what DW was about. The Doctor isn’t even an alien!
31 March 2013 at 20:41 #3917A wee thing that made me smile as it fits in with @bluesqueakpip‘s Clara is the programme theory – when she says come back tomorrow (at the end) – a wink to the fans that it’s the end of this week’s episode and we have to take the slow road to the next one. The doctor could have aged 200 years and regenerated 6 times by then!
(New Hugos cateory – best Moff story – gets my vote)
31 March 2013 at 19:29 #3903@wolfweed You missed out Clara naming him Dr Who 3 times (like Peter denying Christ 3 times). Clearly blasphemous
31 March 2013 at 18:19 #388531 March 2013 at 18:18 #3881Final thoughts for now – Books
The Angel’s Kiss, Melody Malone is fairly obvious re its references
Summer Falls? Presumably significant because of the Amy ref, but it’s a strange phrase. Night falls, summer leads into fall, water-falls… but summer, not usually! Hmm, more caffeine required I think!
31 March 2013 at 18:14 #3879@wolfweed – thanks for the trailer upload. Thoughts from that – is the girl child called the “Queen of Years”?
“one thing you need to remember when you’re travelling with me…don’t walk away”
Ref his comment in The Bells about Clara not walking out on people, and wishing he could be like that. And it’s “walk” not “run”
31 March 2013 at 18:10 #3875I liked this episode. It’s essentially an introduce the new companion one, as well as being the 1st of a (almost) new series, and as such I thought it worked well. Relatively linear story but with lots of details that will bear MUCH analysis!
Criticisms? Well, maybe a bit heavy on the teasers – Dr choosing new costume, Dr checking out the cakes and getting distracted in the cafe when Clara’s obv about to be in imminent peril – which meant it started and stopped a bit, but then it rolled out nicely at the end once Clara was properly uploaded.
31 March 2013 at 18:01 #3873@juniperfish “squick-wise”???
Agree re Amy’s Choice. They also referenced it in The Bells so you’ve got set up of Clara with creepy robot on the stairs and apparently also-creepy mad monk on the doorstep (who we know can actually save her, but she doesn’t!). Loved how he came over as quite paternal, tucking her into bed and leaving her some jammy dodgers, inc one quirkily half eaten! Nice touch.
31 March 2013 at 17:22 #3869@juniperfish Yes, Matt’s physical stuff is great. In fact I’ve been so busy being bowled over by Celia Imrie that I forgot to mention how impressive I thought Matt was throughout – from apparently gormless, to sweet (little call-out to Rory in the bit about “are you guarding me? are you going to sit out there all night”?), to man of action on the bike, to suddenly being The Dark Protector – “download her now!”
He seems such a loveable dither for much of the time – like when he’s in the cafe I was nearly shouting at the screen – get back out to her you idiot, never mind the cake! (in best Who tradition 🙂 ) but he can turn on authoritative 900+ yr old timelord remarkably well.
31 March 2013 at 17:15 #3865Clara has sprung up 3 times now
Actually 4 if we include the prequel in the park
At this stage we don’t know if this version is a split or the original. If the latter, it suggests something nasty is about to happen to her, probably in the next few epis, or maybe in the last one which results in her being fragmented. The fact that she has only just acquired the computer-whizz skills she needed in Asylum suggests this MAY be the first Clara. And TWO of her incarnations is a child-carer, of 2 kids who have recently lost their mum.
@craig interesting call on the thing Clara is holding in the poster – I thought it was maybe a fragment of a tablet (stone/chisel kind) but it does resemble the leaf
31 March 2013 at 16:01 #3849So Bells of St John – updated Web of Fear? With internet/web replacing the physical web that spread thro the tube tunnels in 1967?
31 March 2013 at 15:52 #3847Haha, agree with all above re the Gruniad blog – it doesn’t help when it’s also showing double-identity symptoms with a review AND a blog of the same episode. If it was hard to follow 1 CiF with nesting, keeping up with 2 is impossible. And too many of the comments @wolfweed points out
@juniperfish Noticed your post – I think that’s the way to do it.
<waves @feralcat> Welcome. And nice spot re the camels. No idea what they mean 🙂
And was there not something in a recent Matt Smith interview about paintings? Did the Dr paint the one in this epi? Add it to the list with the Van Gogh and Nick Cave doppelganger in the Lodger.
31 March 2013 at 14:26 #3825@bluesqueakpip I love love love your theory… but it’s turning my little brain completely inside out 🙂
31 March 2013 at 14:23 #3823Why does the Dr lick the leaf he finds in Clara’s diary? That seemed a very alien thing to do – almost like he was taste-testing it. I thought she’d maybe picked it up from the park the day she met the Dr at the swings, so it maybe has a timey-wimeyness thing going for it. So it’s in at the beginning (as @haveyoufedthefish mentioned her diary begins at 9, presumably the age she is when that encounter takes place)
31 March 2013 at 14:06 #3819@haveyoufedthefish I wouldn’t take ANYTHING as being “just coincidence” this year. There’s so much Who stuff around, even my non-geeky friends are aware of it, and Moff and the production team must be steeped in it! Not necessarily as being signifcant plot-wise but definitely for being little waves to the fans.
31 March 2013 at 14:02 #3817Fave moment: the revelation of Miss Kizlet’s reversion to childhood (beautifully played by Celia I) . What is it? About 15 secs of screen time, set up in 1 line in her scene with the GI – something like “you’ve been with me so long I don’t remember who I was before” Cut to the computer operators, suggesting they’ve been there certainly for months, maybe a year or two, then to Miss K on the floor. Beautifully acted transformation from cold, completely in control baddie to lost, lonely child.
Without any exposition, in 2 very short scenes and about 30 seconds of screen time we find out –
1 The GI is the mastermind behind this
2 The GI has been active since the late 60s and the Web of Fear (Presumably that’s why UNIT are brought in at the end, for the ref to WoF (oh yes, very old friends))
3 Miss Kizet has been in the GI’s control for many many years, possibly about 50 (Using Richard E as the face of the GI is a masterstroke, as it immediately sets up the ref to his lonely little boy in the Xmas special – we know what the effect on him was of having the GI in his life for so long, it’s an easy project on to Miss K). We have to reevaluate her as someone who has been an albeit willing victim, but still a victim. A damaged child who lost her parents, and was adopted by an uber-controlling step-parent.
4 Sets up that the GI has been building up his strength for that long and is presumably moving on to phase 2 of the masterplan. And the Doctor doesn’t know he’s involved; interesting patterns re the GI – it dissipates in 19th century (The Snowmen), presumably to astralplane off to Tibet; it dissipates at the end of the Abominable Snowmen and reappears in 60s London. Again it escapes. Now we know (some of) what it’s been up to in the meantime. Does it only have that close link with one person at a time or are there others under its control? (@jimthefish‘s theory re the GI having picked up a bit of Doctoryness?)
For me those 2 scenes show Moffat at his best – he doesn’t explain, he shows you or makes you feel, can shock you with a reveal that changes how you look at a story/characters, which comes blasting in with a whole new set of resonances, questions. and understanding. And it all spins on the head of a pin. It can look like a throwaway if you’re not watching closely, but it unpacks like a TARDIS!
31 March 2013 at 13:04 #3811OOoh I’ve missed this! And now we have a lovely comfy sofa to congregate on (1 size fits everyone… it’s a tardis-style as-big-as-it-needs-to-be sofa 🙂 ), fresh coffee bubbling away, @chickenelly‘s pipe puffing clouds of inspiration and @whohar‘s bath running in the background!
@bluesqueakpip Awesome work on the numbers. Only one thing to add to that – the diary starts at age 9 eg 9th doctor (new series)?
I agree with all above, inc @jimthefish and @haveyoufedthefish, suggesting we’re heading towards a massive reboot that will pull everything in last 50years into a different perspective, and leave a fresh new set up for the next 50! Interesting thought that he’ll end up battling his own dark self.
@phaseshift Get well soon ya numpty! And keep a closer eye out for the pesky cybermats in future
30 March 2013 at 23:39 #3753@bluesqueakpip Think you’re probably right with that. Same way as the Christmas refs have stopped (we’ve had our Xmas present). Missed loads tho 🙁
Any flickering lights?
Lots of computer screen POVs tho
30 March 2013 at 22:47 #3749Did anybody see any eggs?
Damn! Am out of practice :-p I did see a very carefully selected blue bow tie tho! (talk about rubbing our noses in a bow tie – look, look, this is a blue one!)
30 March 2013 at 22:43 #3747In light of the recent stushie on the Gruaniad re not enough women writers on Who, I had a chuckle that the 2 fictional books they’ve introduced – Summer Falls and Melody Pond one – were both written by women. (Now… did Amy start a writing career because her daughter brought her a book to publish, or was she able to publish the Melody Pond book because she was already a writer?!)
Who was the woman in the shop who gave Clara the phone no?
@juniperfish @jimthefish – 2 Doctors theory… Keep watching the bow ties peeps 🙂
@phaseshift thanks for reminding us re Win OS theory – that seemed to get flagged up when Clara was converted to computer whiz kid – need to rewatch. So she’s now got the skills she had in Asylum – but we still don’t know how she got/gets there.
@bluesqueakpip Nice call re Celia Imrie encountering the GI as a child in the 60s, and I missed the link about it picking up Richard E also at a young age. I’m sure REG’s in the cast list for later in the series (remember posting about it).
And yes, what is the GI up to?Bet your boots it’s got a dastardly long term plan.
30 March 2013 at 20:16 #3717<smiling hugely>
Interesting and fun! Interesting cos it set out what you think is the solution to Clara – large collective Aha! Rapidly deflated when she escapes from the upload. Rethink required.
Also have to love it cos I suspected the GI (posted somewhere on these boards!) of being the thing in the wifi. Yay! Law of infinite theories no of theories – gotta come up with the right one sometime! That’s got to move the GI up the probability board in candidacy for the Big Bad… Wasn’t defeated at the end, just shut up shop. The whole scheme a lure for the Doctor maybe? Or just rebooting himself?
Small details – Celia Imrie’s character at the end – reverting to childhood – does that mean she’d been there ALL her life? 1st thought was how sad that was, really poignant. But.. how does that work when there was no internet 40/50 years ago?
Off to ponder for a bit… back later
Excited about reading everyone’s bonkers theories 😀
Who’s back.
😀
30 March 2013 at 07:39 #3673And a bit of democratic anarchy to pass the time before then – off to Glasgow to protest against the Bedroom Tax – a policy that makes Davros look like a philanthropist! Love a good demo 😀
30 March 2013 at 07:34 #3671<waves @juniperfish, coffee, yes, fresh pot always brewing in here. Who’s got the jammy dodgers? 😀 >
Very excited! No more sleeps. iplayer teasingly says it’s got Bells of St John downloaded in HD… anyone know how to pick its lock??! (Hopefully won’t be too scared of things in the internet to come back in here after!)
Hope everyone’s got fezzes, bow ties, pipes, baths (special hi and belated welcome back @whohar – that was a long way to go to catch the antipodean special TV broadcasts!) etc at the ready.
Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeehooooooooooo!
24 March 2013 at 16:18 #3555Re “something in the wifi” – I’d been thinking this had to be the Great Intelligence again, but I think Richard E isn’t scheduled till later and the wifi one is first…. There again Richard E’s appearance could suggest a return to Xmas special time period… with its newspaper and other anomalies. Is that Clara’s home time after all?
<confused 🙂 >
24 March 2013 at 16:14 #3553re the posters – n one of the shards there’s what looks like computer code, but running vertically – tribute to Wotan(?) (mad London computer from Troughton story)?
Does anyone know if Series 8 is planned to be screened before the 50th? Or will be left for months with an almighty cliffhanger/gamechanger at the end of 7.2?
24 March 2013 at 16:10 #3551I think looking at the trailer, and the “there’s something living in the WIFI” stuff, it’s fair to say this run will probably see multiple options as to what Clara is (in the same way we had different potential options for how the Doctor would beat the events at Lake Silencio).
Good call I think, and I like your idea re the snow.
Re dating yong Clara – assuming it’s the same timeline as the end of the Xmas specila when she comes across her won gravestone. Hmm – does she know who/what she is?
@miapatrick – LOL! V Douglas Adams. Ah, you’ll all come round to my theory that what we’ve been seeing for the last 50 years is the Dr’s memories, downloading into his brain – a race against time to get him (either the eleventh or the twelfth) up and functioning before the Big Bad carries out his dastardly plan. 🙂
23 March 2013 at 15:06 #3475Thanks @craig
And agree re @blenkinsopthebrave – hoping his 4th wall breaking bonkers theorising hasn’t got him kidnapped/silenced for being too near the mark!
23 March 2013 at 15:00 #3473@bluesqueakpip Good point re Victorian Clara, but we didn’t really find out very much about her background – there were people who knew her Cockney self, but not a suggestion of any long term friends, she seems quite isolated. Remember that episode also contained various time anomalies/anachronisms eg the newspaper.
re Clara mentioning her mum in Asylum – could be this mum she’s remembering, but we don’t know how long it is since she’s seen her mum. Her memories are her barricade against acknowledging the reality of being dalekised. Her mind is pulling on whatever it can find to keep those defences up eg her back story (of being the junior ents officer on a starship) isn’t independently established.
Gotta love a swing 🙂 They can so easily turn out to be trans-dimensional portals, if only you could swing high enough and fast enough. (I never quite managed it!!!)
He does have a habit of finding his companions young then dipping into their lives to make sure they remember him later!! Yah boo sucks to PCness
23 March 2013 at 14:14 #3461<flops on sofa with some caffeine for quick catch-up>
Hi everyone! Sorry for absence – need a time machine in real life just to keep up with all the Who stuff, never mind real life! (Got 4 recent epis backed up on iplayer). Been lurking occasionally tho and agree with all above re kudos to everyone for creating this lovely cosy Who-space.
Had couple of trips to the Grauniad site recently but the massive trolling is just depressing <shudders> Truculant Sheep/Alexander even seems to have lost his Freud-mania and any pretence at discussing a point. And nesting’s impossible to follow.
Love the new avatars @whisht and @jimthefish (Do we need to address you as “sir” and doff our caps in your presence now you are a mod??)
23 March 2013 at 14:03 #3459The coda was lovely. I remember speculation post-show on the Guardian comments that went very much in this direction. Nice to see the people involved with creating the programme thought so too. Also think it was right decision to include as extra, rather than in main episode. It’s for the people who what to think about it more deeply – ie it adds resonance rather than plot.
23 March 2013 at 14:00 #3455Oooh, I love that. Thanks for posting the link (new trailer). @craig re Clara born and growing up in each incarnation – not necessarily. The fracturing (assuming that’s the case) could happen later in this lifetime, assuming this is her original self, maybe as a result of meeting the Doctor, or somethng else. (That’s a lot of assumptions 🙂 )
5 March 2013 at 15:51 #3053And over on the Guardian blog for this episode … on page 22 it’s a classic Alexander v Chris Kilby (and the world!) spat
😀
5 March 2013 at 15:40 #3051Brilliant, just brilliant. And even better on a repeat. Karen is on great form, totally convincing; several unanswered, uncomfortable questions also…
5 March 2013 at 15:37 #3049Re the BBC’s trailer – one of the scariest phrases is –
…something sinister lurking in the wifi…
If that doesn’t creep out all the online forum-posters, nothing will! @blenkinsopthebrave‘s 4th wall theory anyone?
Excited about the castlist, inc Richard E, but surely if it’s the GI then it should be Ian McKellen (or maybe they’re just not mentioning him!)
I think 7.5 will be relatively self-contained but leading into 8 (probably on a BIG cliffhanger). I think 8 will be arc-driven leading directly into the 50th which will be its resolution, a celebration and a reboot of some sort. Not nec with a new Dr.
Fracturing in time is likely, an overall Big Bad who’s been lurking/manipulating since series 5 (or more!), possibly the Great Intelligence.
<kicks sleepy, half abandoned theory back into touch> Still think all the history of the programmes downloading into the Dr’s head, following amnesia, to basically reboot him (ie he’s been reliving what we’ve been watching for last 50 years) is intriguing concept. (Ties in with various amnesia theories etc above, but would have the effect of turning the pprogramme inside out, relaunching it but still retaining all its history. Hey, if Amy can reboot the universe, rebooting the Dr should be easy).
Please note that all the above is probably completely wrong, LOL
5 March 2013 at 15:15 #3047Wheee – it’s March and Pertwee already. We’ll be on the 50th before we know it!
Interesting, as @phaseshift points out that Who was picking up (unfavourable) comparisons with Star Trek. I remember being distinctly pissed off when ST was slotted into the Who slot, and being particularly unimpressed with its polystyrene rocks – give me a wobbly corridor any day! It did grow on me (a lot) but I still preferred Who’s more open format to ST’s Western-in-space style.
I liked Pertwee, tho I didn’t identify as much with him as with the first 2 or Baker 1. A lot of the stories were thought provoking, with a tendency to hang about your head (and your nightmares). I remember 1 (or maybe more) which involved a North sea oil platform and foamy things in the pipes being very scary – and being very wary of the beach foam next time I was on a beach on east coast of Scotland. Not to mention a fear of gurgling pipes.
25 February 2013 at 04:50 #2889On the subject of Guardian nesting, agree with all that’s been posted above. Nesting only works when there’s a max of 2 pages of comments, after that it’s impossible to follow new comments on a thread. And as @bluesqueakpip pointed out, it encourages trolls by making them feel less lonely and more important. But presumably advertising dept is happy because they are looking for numbers, not quality of posts.
I’m intrigued to see how Dan M manages to keep his blog open all year – will it not have to get reattached to each new article? Or did I misread? Thank you again @craig and everyone here for our lovely new home and sofa. Is WhoHar registered on here btw? And has Chris Kilby disappeared off the face of the planet?! Maybe he’s sneaked aboard the TARDIS!
24 February 2013 at 14:44 #2873@phaseshift Thanks for the link – glad to see it back again. BBC (presumably) keeps pulling it. Had close on 1m views before they pulled the last one. I love this too, from the same time Ballad of Russell and Julie
How do you get the video to display in the box btw? Ain’t happenin for me!
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