The Husbands Of River Song

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  • #49645
    Craig @craig
    Emperor

    the-husbands-of-river-song-large

    The 2015 Christmas Special and River Song is back! This is very much a fun two-hander between Capaldi and Kingston and they both have a great time. The two work really well together. It’s much lighter than the series has been this year and there’s a lot more comedy.

    It is Christmas Day on a remote human colony, and the Doctor is hiding from Christmas carols and comedy antlers. When a crashed spaceship calls upon the Doctor for help, he finds himself recruited into River Song’s squad and hurled into a fast and frantic chase across the galaxy.

    Watch out for Capalidi’s salute to us fans, it’s a classic moment.

    #49657

    Crikey. Didn’t see that coming.

    #49659
    Devilishrobby @devilishrobby

    Well will that be Rivers final swan Song (sorry couldn’t resist it) but seriously I think we finally got the goodbye that River deserves.Though I do wonder given Capdocs recent history weather he will find some way to bring her back from the library’s computer.

    #49660
    Miapatrick @miapatrick

    OK, so I was watching that much drunker than usual, and in the middle of an insanely complicated family reunion.

    It was fun. Better fun than I think the trailer promised. I liked the reversal of ‘hello sweetie’. We’ve seen so much more of River in love that its nice- oh dear, this is me watching as a female isn’t it? I just cried over a Christmas present. We weren’t even suppose to do Christmas today.

    Interesting that he was her last date- the one who gave her the screwdriver- after his own experiences in the dial? That puts a different complexion on it I think.

    I shall return to the episode tomorrow, when I am more sober and my prodigal stepson not snoozing on my sofa.

    Happy Christmass all!

    #49661
    Cath Annabel @cathannabel

    We’re going to need a bigger flowchart!  And a special nod to our very own @jimthefish…  or I suppose to his slightly mysterious fictional counterpart.

    And that was really very lovely.  River’s speech about loving the Doctor made me cry.  Lots of other bits made me laugh.  And River, as always, was splendid and the dynamics between the two of them were quite sexy too.

    That’s probably as much as I can articulate at this stage, after hours and hours of food prep, a considerable amount of food consumption, plus a certain amount of wine and sherry, and allowing for the fact that I watched with a very large cat (a Maine Coon to be precise) sitting more or less on my head and purring almost loudly enough to wake mother-in-law from her slumbers.

    It was really very lovely.  Merry Christmas all.

     

    #49662
    Mudlark @mudlark

    Maybe it was the liberal infusion of Christmas spirit*, but I thoroughly enjoyed that, and will no doubt appreciate the nuances all the more when I view it again tomorrow, sober.

    I’m an archaeologist from the future. I dug you up’.

    In my dreams …..

    * Well, a decidedly palatable Saint-Emilion.

    #49663
    lewis97 @lewis97

    Just something curious I noticed; the street on which the TARDIS is located looks to me like a redressing of the Trap Street set.

    #49665

    @lewis97

    Yeah, spotted that. Methinks budgetary priorities came into play.

    #49673
    Starla @starla

    That made me laugh, it made me cry, especially the ending. The looks CapDoc was giving River were just so intense! My word!

    #49676
    catladymeow @catladymeow

    OMG!  I have never cried like that for an episode of Dr Who!  Of all the ones I have seen, all the Christmas Specials, my favorite up til now has been the Christmas Carol one.  No more, it’s the one.  Wow, just wow.

    #49677
    winston @winston

    That was a fantastically fun romp! It had  lots of laughs and a few sentimental tears , like a good Christmas special should have. I liked the sparks that flew between the two of them, very flirty. A 24 year long night with the Doctor is one heck of a date.

    There were so many things I liked about this episode like the argument about ,who married who, and the diary that is just as big as it needs to be. Great stuff that needs a few more viewings.

    The rest of the cast were great and I especially liked Matt Lucas as that cute and confused little guy. Too bad about his head although he seemed okay with it at the end.

    Merry Christmas!

     

    #49679
    Anonymous @

    My cable wasn’t working so I had to see the midnight showing which just ended. Haven’t read any posts yet.

    I didn’t have high hopes for this episode from the previews. By the end of it I was yelling at Moffat and internally crying.  I wasn’t yelling because of disappointment though.  I was yelling to say thank you for the best Christmas present ever.

    I had rewatched the first two parter with River only a few weeks ago.  I had been thinking about how I wanted to see the episode when she sees the singing towers and she receives the sonic screwdriver. I wanted it to be with CapDoc.

    I was so happy and sad and excited and surprised to see my wish to Moffat actually happening in this episode.

    Thank you, Steven Moffat.

    #49680
    CountScarlioni @countscarlioni

    Enjoyed that a lot. A really spirited romp, but with a big sting in the tail. Terrific and I thought ultimately moving performances by Peter Capaldi and Alex Kingston; loved the Doctor being shocked at the Tardis being bigger on the inside. I take it we had a call back/forward to the short extra scenes of `Last Night’ from Series 6 as River referred near the end to seeing two of you (two Doctors).

    Is it now onto the library and the end?

    River: But you will. You’ll wait until I’ve given up hope, all will be lost, and you’ll do that smug little smile and then you’ll save the day — you always do.

    The Doctor: No, I don’t, not always. Times end, River, because they have to. Because there’s no such thing as happy ever after. It’s just a lie we tell ourselves because the truth is so hard.

    River: No, Doctor… you’re wrong. Happy ever after doesn’t mean forever. It just means time… a little time. But that’s not the sort of thing you could ever understand, is it?

    Is 24 years though enough “little time”? Agree with @devilishrobby that on the Doctor’s current form, it ain’t over till it’s over. And even then it might not be over.
    Off to see the 3-D version on a big cinema screen on Monday. Yes!!

     

    #49682
    jphamlore @jphamlore

    @theconsultingdoctor: The reason why this was such an emotional episode that could be the conclusion of the River Song saga is that this episode apparently could have been Steven Moffat’s last as showrunner.  Fortunately for us he is staying for at least next season, at the cost of his having to juggle his duties with Sherlock.

    Losing Moffat both as showrunner and lead writer would be a tremendous loss for the show.  In some sense I think he is speaking to us as fans, telling us to enjoy the moments we have left with him.

    #49683
    ichabod @ichabod

    Loved it, guys; really.  Perfect tone, lively pace, beautiful playing — and another quiet ring of the mortality bell at the end, exactly the balance of acceptance of hard reality and joy (in the beauties and comforts of some sweetly extended playtime beforehand) that we saw CapDoc lose in S8-S9, to (almost) disastrous effect.  Funny; now I think of Ohila shouting, “Come out and face me, *boy*!” in Hell Bent, and how like a hyper-emotional adolescent he was with the “girl” in the case (though Clara herself had been pushed well beyond girlhood by then, into being a mature young woman demanding just treatment, and he did get there too, with her strenuous help).

    Compare with how the Doctor and River behave in the relative peace and security of the restaurant at the Towers: two adults, both with perceptions and expectations tempered by hard experience, but closing warmly together around the time that they still do have together. And it’s funny, too!

    This was so much more than I expected . . . it doesn’t *follow* Heaven Sent/Hell Bent, episodes that happen at the end of time, not back in the middle where River was still alive (Moffat’s comments place Husbands not long after Angels Take Manhattan, if I recall correctly).  Yet Husbands links up with the S9 closing through this theme of confronting mortality and endings, struggling against the inexorable until you learn to content yourself with winning what gains you can within those limits.  It is, as CapDoc observes, the deal.

    Well, it figures.  Where else should a story about a Time Lord lead us but to some accommodation, however temporary and conditional, to mortality and endings?

     

    #49684
    tardigrade @tardigrade

    Just watched the episode and really enjoyed it as a mostly light-hearted romp, but also with a proper swan song for River for me – I was happy to see her show up one last time.

    Matt Lucas’s character was great, I’ve always like Alex Kingston as River (I know that’s not the case for everyone) and I loved the autonomous mechanised suit (shades of Warhammer). I couldn’t help of thinking when watching that Rik Mayall would have been ideal as Hydroflax (no criticism of the actual actor).

    River did seem more than a little slow on the uptake in working out who the Doctor was- plenty of clues there for her, but the Doctor’s rant on how the Tardis was bigger on the inside was just so OTT / cheesy it was hard to see how she could not realise what was going on by that point – again no criticism of Capaldi btw- he was playing the Doctor as hamming it up badly :-). She seemed fixated on him having one of twelve faces though.

    Some great one-liners and exchanges too, as you expect from a Xmas special. Can’t resist quoting a few:

    River: Does sarcasm help?
    The Doctor: Wouldn’t it be a great universe if it did?

    The Doctor: You probably want to press that button.
    River: Why?! That evacuates the waste tank on deck seven.
    The Doctor: Does it?
    River: What is wrong with you?
    The Doctor: Better avoid deck seven then.

    The Doctor: My entire understanding of physical space has been transformed! Three-dimensional Euclidean geometry has been torn up, thrown in the air and snogged to death! My grasp of the universal constants of physical reality has been changed… forever. Sorry. I’ve always wanted to see that done properly.

    The Doctor: It’s my back.
    River: Your back?
    The Doctor: Yeah, my back’s playing up. It simply refuses to carry the weight of an entirely pointless stratum of society who contribute nothing of worth to the world and crush the hopes and dreams of working people.
    (expectant of support from the gathered crowds and getting nothing)

    Scratch: Silence! This is not our way.
    The Doctor: It doesn’t say much for your king if you can’t put a price on his head.

    #49686
    ichabod @ichabod

    @jphamlore  Losing Moffat both as showrunner and lead writer would be a tremendous loss for the show. In some sense I think he is speaking to us as fans, telling us to enjoy the moments we have left with him.

    Good point — and whether he’s telling us that or not, it certainly is my intention to do just that!  Though another 24 years might be a tad too long . . .

    @tardigrade  Love your quotes!  Off to sleep now; happily surprised is happy indeed.

     

     

    #49687
    jphamlore @jphamlore

    The Doctor: Things. There are things that have to be checked before I get it to you. If we don’t check the thing, then…

    Reminded me of Woody Allen and Diane Keaton in Sleeper pretending to be surgeons who were to clone the Leader.

    #49689
    Miapatrick @miapatrick

    Oh and I loved this: ‘marry the diamond’.

    #49690
    Juniperfish @juniperfish

    Happy Boxing Day everyone, on several continents!

    Well, I knew Capaldi and Kingston would be great together, and they didn’t disappoint, both on comedic and romantic levels – what a whirlwind.

    Moffat has made rather a speciality of writing long love speeches (I’m thinking of Sherlock’s wedding speech in The Power of Three) and River’s long rant about how the cannibalistic dragon folk could scan the entire parsec because there was no way the Doctor loved her back and would be there with her, was a good one. Capaldi managed to make his answering “Hello Sweetie” really hum with emotion in the aftermath.

    Someone called WillBrooks1989 has created a fabulous diagram of the way River’s time-line intersects with the Doctor’s from The Forest of the Dead to this Christmas, here: http://visual.ly/timeline-river-song-doctor-who-s4-s9  (especially for you @bluesqueakpip).

    And Moffat managed to end a bunch of nasty genocide committing super-rich for Christmas. Not very Christian of him, but the Doctor didn’t seem that upset about it.

    I’m still feeling emotional about River’s upload to CAL as the closest to a Time Lord funeral the Doctor could give her. And now he’s given her the screwdriver he’s had (since Silence in the Library) “all that time to think of a way to save her,” to make it possible.

    Definitely one for a re-watch for River fans – I need to savour the Singing Towers. But, for now, it’s time to eat some leftovers and see some cousins…

    #49692
    Anonymous @

    Didn’t River say in The Crash of the Byzantium that she once dated ‘someone’ with swappable heads?

    As the Tissue Allowance was exceeded,  the Special was deemed utterly perfect.

    There may be people who will claim it was syrupy. And if so, I’m quite happy anyway.

    #49693
    Juniperfish @juniperfish

    Oh and just had to drop back in quickly to say I enjoyed the tribute to The Importance of Being Earnest” !

    The “handbag” (containing the head) and River’s Oscar Wilde quote about her diary, “you should always have something sensational to read on the train a spaceship.”

    #49694
    Anonymous @

    @theconsultingdoctor

    Totally agree with you there -but I wasn’t shouting. Here we have tact and dignity, dude 🙂

    But I was looking away a lot and not making eye contact as Son goes “aw Mum, no crying, oh no, don’t start that again.”

     

    #49695
    FrostFair @frostfair

    New poster here. I thought this episode was fantastic. Peter Capaldi and Alex Kingston were fabulous together. Great chemistry, totally irreverent, smart and just simply “fizzing” in every scene. I especially loved two of “The Importance of Being Earnest” references: the handbag, and scandolous diary reading. Were there any more? Stephen Moffat is a terrific writer but simply excelled himself here with his dialogue for Alex and Peter. I really now want to see their escapades with Jim the Fish (much referenced but not yet seen).

    #49696
    Anonymous @

    after the family went to bed, popped in the ear worms and had me a proper watch.

    Didn’t cry any less. I remember yonks ago, writing about how Eleven had really woken my mind up to the playfulness of the Doctor -his knowledge, humour and compassion and whilst I always loved Capaldi and even maintained that they were all “one Doctor” to me (and of course they are) at about 52 minutes in, I thought Twelve had really pitched the tent, totally nailed it, won the marathon, performed the symphony with exactitude or whatever phrase works best for you…. 🙂

    A beautiful performance which even improved upon Heaven Sent (and that shouldn’t even be possible ).

    So, Twelve, you’ve completely won me over and I really, really hope you stick around for another round. Or three.

    Anyway, getting blathier now so will catch some kipper.

    PuroSolo

    PS it wouldn’t surprise me if a lot of people won’t really go for it -it was a romp but not completely: the tragic element was always present, waiting and growing more profound with each minute so I hope it’s well liked. If not, then at least appreciated.

    Well done Moff: loved the fez, btw.

    Also welcome to @frostfair Glad you loved it too. I shall watch again for a 3rd time tomorrow. Those singing towers -a melancholy delight

    #49697
    Rob @rob

    Fantastic

    River literally married ‘a diamond geezer’

     

    More thoughts later

    #49698
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @puroandson

    Yes, it’s my holiday avatar. 🙂

    @juniperfish

    I’m vaguely thinking of changing my tag line to ‘I’m going to need a bigger flowchart’. 🙂 It was a very funny story; especially the scene where they went through the other’s various affairs. And Moffat finally sorted out the ‘new suit/haircut’ thing from Silence in the Library – clearly the Smith Doctor ‘cancelled at the last minute’ when we saw him in Last Night, and took River somewhere else.

    The original Twelve Days of Christmas include St Stephen’s Day (today) and the Massacre of the Innocents (Childermas), which is commemorated on 28th December. If Moffat wants to have a Massacre of the Definitely-Not-Innocent, that’s pretty Christmassy – Christmas also remembers a lot of death as well as a certain birth.

    As he said in A Christmas Carol, Christmas is a ‘halfway out of the dark’ season. 😀

    But, for now, it’s time to eat some leftovers and see some cousins…

    Initially I misread that as ‘it’s time to eat some cousins and see some leftovers…’

    #49699
    JimTheFish @jimthefish
    Time Lord

    Just popping in to say that was absolutely fab. Probably counts as the best Christmas episode I reckon and a fitting in to what has been a terrific year of Who. SM has really knocked this one out of the park.

    Capaldi and Kingston were as great as I expected them to be and it is, I think, the perfect pairing for 12’s Doc. I still wouldn’t be at all surprised if she became the permanent companion next year — it struck me that such a thing was heavily hinted at. I wonder now that Gallifrey has been found whether next year’s arc will be the saving of River. (Although part of me wonders whether it would take away from that splendid farewell and that SM would be a wary of opening himself to yet more accusations be being incapable of killing anyone.)

    Oh, and welcome back, @scaryb!! Where the hell you been??

    #49700
    Arbutus @arbutus

    And a happy Saint Stephen’s Day to all. Wasn’t that fun? River and Twelve were predictably great together, her speech about the Doctor was beautifully done, and the recognition scene afterward even better. And so many fun bits I can’t keep track of them all. Of course, I loved the Doctor’s “bigger on the inside” moment.

    Based on his words to River at the end, we now know that the Doctor has indeed learned from his Series 9 experiences. He has learned that he can’t always avoid endings, can’t always cheat death, can’t always win. His face as he shares that wisdom with River is wonderful. Interesting to remember that the next time she sees him, he is Ten, with so many lessons still to learn. No wonder she thinks he looks so young!

    @tardigrade    I had the same thought at one point, “Surely she must figure it out?” But then I realized that she could have absolutely no way of knowing that the Doctor could have more than twelve regenerations, and as his wife, I’m sure she would have been well aware that SmithDoc was on his last regen. How could she have guessed that “a thing” had happened? (I loved that moment, too- typical fan, no need to know the details, just “a thing happened”!) And when we have a firmly fixed notion of any kind, it’s very hard to see around it sometimes, even for clever people.

    @puroandson    I didn’t find it at all syrupy, in fact, compared to last year’s tear-fest, I thought the emotion was pretty well controlled. It felt more touching to me, bittersweet, but quite appropriate and lovely.

    Oh, and- Stephen Fry?   🙂

    #49701

    Random thought: lots of references by River to expedient memory wipes. Kept the S9 themes going just enough to weave it into the continuity.

    Also, rather liked the 1950s style flying saucer.

    #49702
    AlexWho @alexwho

    I enjoyed it from start to finish! A lot lighter tone than Last Christmas but with a bitter-sweet ending.

    Hope this isn’t the end of River Song b/c of the chemistry between Alex and Peter but it kinda looks that way.

    Merry Christmas!

    #49703
    misterhoo @misterhoo

    A little disappointed that the new sonic screwdriver did not make an appearance.  Yes, it would have been a dead give away for River.  However, it could still have made an appearance after she found out who he was.

    #49704

    @misterhoo

    A little disappointed that the new sonic screwdriver did not make an appearance.

    It did.

    #49705
    lisa @lisa

    “The Husbands of River Song”  is definitely my favorite of all the Christmas specials!

    I  need/hope to see more Doctor and River adventures    🙂

     

    Did everyone see  the Christmas ornaments and snow on the Tardis in the opening credits?

     

    #49707
    Kharis @kharis

    Doctor Who Christmas Specials are always fantastic.  Honestly, you don’t need to be a Doctor Who fan to enjoy “The Doctor, the Widow and the Wardrobe” or “A Christmas Carol” since they are extremely well-done and better than even most classic Christmas movies.  The two movies have become classics even in my family where I am the only Doctor Who fan besides my son.   This episode went over just as well with my family…..until I started crying and saying, “NO, NO, NO, YOU CAN’T TAKE HER THERE!”  I actually started sobbing and swearing that I hate Moffat, and then realizing that: NO, I really don’t.

    Also, I needed to explain to my niece that River is simply uploaded and therefore could be downloaded, so my tears were silly, since she really isn’t dead, and time can be rewritten, already had been.  That cheered me up, especially since the top of my Christmas list was that the Doctor’s new companion would be River Song.  Still bummed that it looks like that will never happen.  Especially since the chemistry between the two was indeed incredible.  Well, can’t have everything.

    #49708
    Kharis @kharis

    @frostfair “Welcome!  Most welcome!  Be happy here. ” 🙂   Agree

    Agree with you all!  It was wonderful!  So smart, funny and hit hard in the feels. What a season!  All around, from start to finish, the best Doctor Who series ever!

     

    #49709
    winston @winston

    @lisa  I saw and loved the snowy opening credits. I also hope for more Doctor and River adventures as these two are great together. This reminded me of the old 40’s movie comedies like the Thin Man with all that flirty banter and witty wisecracks. More please Mr. Moffat.

    @arbutus  I caught the Stephen Fry remark and I bet he loved it!

    @puroandson    I not only shed a few happy/sad tears but actually clapped ( lucky I was alone )and dare I say “squeeeeed!” when the Doctor said one night lasts for 24 years. I loved the ending , it was sad but beautiful.

     

    #49710
    winston @winston

    @frostfair   Hi there and welcome! I am sure you will like it here. I agree about the dialogue ,it was crisp and snappy.

    @kharis   I feel your pain and share it. River would be an excellent companion to this Doctor. They are great together , but it probably won’t happen. Still I hope we see her again.

    #49711
    ScaryB @scaryb

    Oh my giddy aunt!

    How good was that?! (Although there seems to be an awful lot of dust particles in my house at the moment! 😥 ). Light finish to a stonking good season… then, oh no! The Singing Towers. I did have my suspicions about that in run-up to screening, but unlike @pedant re Hell Bent (that was SO well called 😉 ) I didn’t put it in writing)

    Capaldi and Kingston sizzled together as we pretty much knew they would. A sense of the Dr maturing – recognising that sometimes there has to be endings. Nice balance with Clara’s fate – Clara who also believes that the Doctor will “fix it” – at the last heartbeat when all hope seems lost. And yet, and yet…  with both Clara and River he can only finally postpone the inevitable. Clara must always go back to face the Raven. River must go to the Library.  Clara gets an extra sort of life between heartbeats. River gets a 24 year night!! 😯 😀

    Part of me thinks that’s fitting, the other laments that we won’t get to see more Capaldi/Kingston stories. Much as I’d love to see more of her and Capaldi, I do recognise it’s a bit of a narrative dead end.

    I loved the reverses with the Dr being the one to recognise River when she doesn’t know him (because she only knows 11 (or is it 12?!) of him at this point). As @juniperfish says – his “Hello Sweetie” is so poignant, beautifully played.  What I particularly liked is that you can see them “clicking” even tho River doesn’t know who he is, and Twelve sees her as she is when she’s not being with him. He’s shocked at her apparent immorality but he’s also impressed with her daring. They mirror each other physically, and in what they say.

    Lots of Douglas Adams refs too – Aldebaran brandy, restaurants in space (again!) and a crashing spacecraft full of very nasty (very rich) “people” for whom (it’s carefully established when we arrive) we should feel no sympathy whatsoever (as opposed to a colony of Golgafrinchan hairdressers etc).

    All that and a shout out for @jimthefish!! YAY!! (I like to think that our little forum helps to keep things like that, inc ARSE and the Singing Towers, swirling about in the Who cyber-consciousness 🙂  “I’m going to need a bigger flowchart!!” )

    #49713
    lisa @lisa

    Also heard a shout out to Stephan Fry??   Wasn’t that interesting!

    I selfishly want  Mr.  Fry as  a traveling companion now!

    Wonder if that is going to happen since his name is mentioned?

    Just once or twice.  Maybe a 2 part episode?   In any case its on the wish list.

     

     

    #49714
    Anonymous @

    @scaryb

    great to see you back Mum says hello (from the Hybrid now) where we work together sometimes although there’s some serious spelling mistakes and mum reckons that the autocorrect will ruin spelling for everyone but that’s ok because Sam Seaborne in The West Wing couldn’t spell either apparently! and @pedant knows Seaborne.

    @arbutus I think Mum thought it wasn’t syrupy at all but wondered if others thought it would be? Today mum was watching the SitL and wrote down some comments about it. There’s a point when the Doctor says “I love biographies …we have to have death, without it, there’d be only comedies” which we thought was very interesting considering the Christmas Special.

    Later though, River says ” this is the Doctor in the Days before he knew me and he looks right through me and it shouldn’t hurt but it does” and Donna gets aggressive: “are you talking rubbish? Do you know him or not?”

    That was the point, in 2008 when we both disliked Donna. Only then. It seemed she had travelled with the Doctor, been kind even to Miss Evangelista and yet didn’t get the complexity of time travel.

    Obviously, we both calmed down and realised that time travel and their relationship needs a flow chart  🙂

    -yee-hah to @Bluesqueakpip for those flow charts and diagrams and discussions about Euclidian geometry and the always present Deus ex machina! (which people just don’t seem to understand but thats’ OK too).

    We loved the husbands/ fling references where I think that the Doctor said “you married Stephen Fry” and she says “Cleopatra” and the Doctor says something like the “same problem” which I thought was a reference to sexual preferences but I’m not entirely sure?

    3 years ago Fry came to Sydney for a 2 hour stand up ‘discussion’ at the Opera House. Like the Doctor he’s a whole star system in one amazing person.

    All those discussions this year about the nature of love and sex between humans, mortals and the immortals and the doctor -how Missy spoke about our grubby minds not conceiving friendship and here we had River totally getting it. That she defiantly spoke up saying to Scratch: “I love him. I’ve never denied it but you can’t ask a sunset to admire you back”

    @kharis I didn’t weep or anything but that’s OK because Mum kept clearing her throat and sipping tea to hide her eyes and then she was texting. Which I know she wasn’t -I can read upside down pretty well now and she wasn’t. She did want us to know she felt deeply about this episode.

    @alexwho and @misterhoo I thought it too was the end of the cycle or the diary with River but @jimthefish doesn’t think so and as he’s in the diary I think he can have a peek and see whether she just needs to get Volume 2.    🙂

    @misterhoo:  I also thought the gift from 12 to River was definitely that incredible  sonic which uploaded her at the end of The Forest of the Dead.

    @tardigrade I would agree with @arbutus that River wouldn’t know about the 12 regens. I didn;t see a picture of Doctor Eight but that could be because of the editing. I wondered why, when looking at the Tardis she didn’t recognise it as the actual Doctor’s? That was odd? She did keep hearing “it says police”.

    I know Sarah Jane noticed the Tardis straight away in the first series. Could it be that River being 200 years old now just doesn’t remember what the Tardis looks like? But then how did she know it actually was one? I’m not sure what to think there myself so a good point.

    @rob Dear Sir! yes, I agree she “married a diamond”. Dad says, when he was in the police in England, blokes said that a lot! 🙂

    Dad’s birthday is tomorrow and so the Massacre of the Innocents is something he remembers from being brought up in an orphanage when he was 6 until 14. Thank you for that reminder @bluesqueakpip. I don’t think a lot of people these days know that: Christmas is all shopping and stuff here. Yesterday, Boxing Day was really about people in the news lining up at 6 am and the shop did a countdown – everyone went rushing in. I’m sympathetic to people who really need things though -like toys which are cheaper and things for the house. Also, right now, 116 homes are lost near Lorne (it’s a nice town I saw when I was 6 ) due to fires -the fires go up to the beach which is awful.

    But to happier things. The Doctor reminded us that things end, can’t be avoided, love can go for a night of 24 years, a person can live in between heart beats and a sonic trowel isn’t as cool as another type but I think Ms @mudlark would love a sonic trowel ?  😈

    Son of Puro wishing you all a contented post chrismtas period.

     

    #49717
    Anonymous @

    Ah the Hybrid was banging on….

    But I noticed something. All those times we saw the Doctor have shorter hair last year reminds me of how in The Forest of the Dead and in the Husbands of River Song, River explains how the Doctor turns up in a suit with a fresh hair cut and then also speaks of how he kept putting that off -that promise.

    Maybe he had the hair cut in preparation for Asgaard and Darillium?

    And kept postponing it. 🙂

    Puro

    #49718
    jphamlore @jphamlore

    Now that I think about it, I simply am not sure whether the Library that River Song winds up in Forest of the Dead will be heaven or hell for her.  I think at the end the Doctor repaired the Library’s computer’s virtual reality so that it would be a much more pleasant place to live in.  I am trying to remember whether in theory the Library can bring to life the books that are stored in it so that in effect the child it was built for, and thus the child’s companions, can in effect travel through all of time and all of space that has been written down in a form of virtual reality.

    And to return to the original question, would River Song be happy or unhappy to be confined for eternity within an already written virtual reality with a few actual people, her shipmates and the child.

    And what did this line mean? Is it possible the Doctor can still visit River on occasion?

    RIVER [OC]: Now and then, every once in a very long while, every day in a million days, when the wind stands fair, and the Doctor comes to call

    #49719
    cpgolfer @cpgolfer

    Killing off River would be a huge mistake she’s one of the most unique characters of the franchise with the right actress playing her. They left her mind trapped in a planet sized library I think someone as clever as she is would use all that knowledge and a teleporter that converts matter to energy and vise versa talk about the ultimate 3d printer lol  to restore her body and even possibly build a tardis

    #49720
    Anonymous @

    @jphamlore

    yes, there were her friends: one beautiful and remarkably intelligent (the new version of Evangelista) as well as three children, not one.

    But there are endings and I believe that is the point. If she hadn’t died in Forest of the Dead, if the Doctor hadn’t experienced Heaven Sent (connected in words to the last 2 mins of The Forest of the Dead, by the way) and understood truth, beauty and sadness – and the necessity of endings, he would not have been able to place her into CAL. I don’t see it as a bad thing at all.

    It’s more than most people get and we don’t want to go down the road that “River isn’t most people” either. This is about what is fair and right for all: egalitarianism. Not the pretend kind 🙂

    #49721
    Anonymous @

    @jphamlore

    the doctor comes to call is a reference to when no-one dies and everyone lives. -If you check that whole quote by River I don’t think she’s referring to herself or Cal but rather the Doctor’s ability and the great fortune some have when he’s able to save people. The concept ‘save’ there has some different connotations perhaps?

    #49723
    misterhoo @misterhoo

    Rewatched and spotted the new sonic near the end in the control room.  However, it was on screen for less than 30 seconds.  I’m not the only one who missed it.  The closed captions writer thought it was the sonic trowel.

    #49724
    Miapatrick @miapatrick

    @puroandson- the Cleopatra line- I wasn’t sure if he meant they had both had relationships with her, or if he was comparing a relationship with Cleopatra to one with River. And I think she knew it was the Tardis, she seemed to imply that she turns up and nicks it quite often and he ‘never notices’. Quite a lot of episodes the Tardis ends up somewhere they are not for part of the story. Cold War and The Girl Who Died are the most extreme examples, but it really only needs to be unattended for a couple of minutes.

    It was a good episode wasn’t it? And it turned out to be part of an arc after all!

    #49725
    midnyt @midnyt

    I don’t think i could have asked for anything more in that special.

    regarding Cleopatra from The Wedding of River Song:

    DOCTOR: Did my best, dear. I showed up. You just can’t get the psychopaths these days. Love what you’ve done with the pyramids. How did you score all this?
    RIVER: Hallucinogenic lipstick. Works wonders on President Kennedy. And Cleopatra was a real pushover.
    DOCTOR: I always thought so.
    RIVER: She mentioned you.
    DOCTOR: What did she say?
    RIVER: Put down that gun down.
    DOCTOR: Did you?
    RIVER: Eventually.

    I always got the impression they both “got with” Cleopatra from that.

    There are so many references in this one, I don’t know where to start. I’m a sucker for an actor really getting into a role and having fun with it. That’s one of the reasons I like River even though at first I was “What are they thinking.” But Alex just has so much fun as River. And Peter is clearly having just as much fun. And the chemistry! Woohoo! Talk about steaming up the windows of the TARDIS.

    #49726
    Anonymous @

    @miapatrick @midnyt

    Oh right, <wacks head> I should have picked up on that. Mainly it was Son who was awdully confused (do you like that new word?) and as it was a sticky area I pretended to clean out my ears. 🙂

    Yes, steamy Tardis. I agree.

    The “24 years” line wasn’t delivered in a “whey-hey, we have 24 years bab-eee, let’s go rock my …”

    OK stop right there.

    It was as it should be. The Doctor is a star system, a sunset, a monolith (You know, if you really check out those words there’s a little bit of the naughty in them).

    But as Missy said “we humans.”

    Honestly.

    Yeah, OK, don’t look like that, I dreamed of Twelve last night. Don’t blame me. It’s the damn suit and the lighting 🙂

    Also the halluci

    ****transmission cut*****

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