[janetteB @replies]

@bluesqueakpip I think your remark (10510 pg 16, yes I am that far behind!!) re’ the arc not being about what hte Doctor’s name is but what is done under that name, is spot on. Because the name itself isn’t what matters, but what that name means and that has been a theme of Moffat’s tenure. We have been told that the name means different things to different people.

cheers

Janette. (now back to page 16)

[janetteB @replies]

Exactly my thinking @chickenelly though I do think that the Silence were bad uns and I don’t think that Hurt Doctor is necessarily evil just did what had to be done for peace in the universe but it the act of a war leader not the Doctor. In a way it is the Doctor splitting his personality to avoid responsibility for his own actions. What Hurt did may have been necessary just not pleasant or of dubious ethics. If an unethical act is required to save all life does that make it ethical? I think this questions lies at the very heart of all Who and the Doctor has always managed to dodge that bullet, but perhaps not always after all.

Makes a change being able to respond. Mostly I am so far behind with posts that I don’t even get past reading through them to be able to post and by the time i have I have completely forgotten everything I was going to say. So many wonderful posts and bonkers theories in the past few days. Brilliant.. 🙂

Cheers

Janette.

[janetteB @replies]

Maybe the war that the Silence are fighting/were fighting was against the Hurt Doctor. All the references in recent years to the dark Doctor are actually referring to him rather than the Doctor we know. When River Song warns him at hte end of AGMGtW that people have come to fear him it is maybe the actions of the Hurt Doctor, that incarnation that he rejects/denies that she is referring to. IT was perhaps the Hurt incarnation that visited the Gamma Forests and it perhaps the “long and bitter war” that Madam Kovarian refers to that he fought rather than the Time war which as has been pointed out, the Doctor freely admits to.

I am not sure where this puts the Hurt incarnation, either and alternate eleven or from the future. When I first suggested alternate eleven it was just an idea and one I thought overly credible but it is growing on me. We do not know what the Doctor does in the times between his earth visits. He spends a lot of time knocking about in that Tardis without companions or T.V cameras. Perhaps there is something happening in those gaps, or perhaps Hurt Doctor has been delegated to a seperate reality, where he remains, unregenerated. The Doctor has split maybe by the fracturing Tardis. Which ties back to Matt’s remark about paintings. Perhaps the alternate Doctor came into existance before Amy rebooted the universe which makes Matt both Doctor eleven and Doctor 13. NOw my head hurts.

Just a note on the comment made earlier and I apologise but despite my best efforts I have forgotten whom by, having read so many posts since, on the likelihood of MOffat reading through our bonkers theorising and putting teases into the script. I suspected that Clara’s story about creating the fish to keep her company was a reference to our very own fish.

Cheers

Janette

[janetteB @replies]

A thought. What if JH is somehow the 11th, (not sure how) and the fall of the eleventh refers to his expulsion from the line of Doctors, a kind of internal killing off. The Doctor has to kill the dark entity within himself possibly by rewriting his own timeline. This might tie to @juniperfish‘s beloved two doctors theory. Possibly the graveyard and Tardis are projections from the Doctor’s mind. Trenzalore is his greatest fear. It may not be real.

Sorry if someone else has thought along these lines. I am only up to page nine. the Day shift have been so busy I am still catching up.

Cheers

Janette

[janetteB @replies]

For something completely different, or almost. I have been trying to make a list of Who related foods, for the anniversary party. (no harm in planning ahead.)

Thus far I have fishfingers and custard, chips, jammy dodgers, jelly babies, and of course souffle, apples with smiles, grapes and mandarins, (Satsumas in the U.K.) on the menu. I decided against including doormice. (Dr 1 The Romans). Have there been any other notable food references through the ages?

Cheers

Janette

[janetteB @replies]

Have spent all day, (when I should be working) catching up on posts. So many crackers I wanted to comment on but as usual have forgotten by the time I’ve read this far.

Loved loved the episode but I really want to rewatch. Funny I thought it totally trashed the theory I was going with that Clara was created by River using the Tardis but others now seem to be embracing that one. It seemed to me that Clara was just the ordinary girl who was splintered as a result of entering the timey wimey thing but of course she is a paradox, (love a paradox, almost as much as Moffat) having been the cause of the leaf which leads to her birth. I do feel that JLC has been holding back with her character, so as to give little away and feul the mystery so hopefully next series her character will gain depth. Clara now can be a continuing re appearing character. I don’t see her as a future Doctor. There were echoes of B.5 in this episode. (“Sinclair, I go because I have always gone.”)

John Hurt could be either zero Doctor or Doctor 8&3/4. I hope he is not going to turn out to be an older eight as that would hardly be fair to McGann. I would be happy with either option. I am already planning a Who based feast for 24th of November. (When I’m assuming it will be shown in Australia.)

re’ Truckles. I got drawn into the fray too and I have three cups of coffee to blame. I wondered if he is the writer that he mentioned who apparantly has a grudge against MOffat.

Cheers

Janette

[janetteB @replies]

Love the master and baby. Awww.

I haven’t been on the Sofa for a while. Not enough time to keep up with all the threads so figured I could catch up later when there are no fresh episodes to speculate on because as I said on Dan Martin’s blog my only gripe with Doctor Who is the amount of time I waste speculating on what is going to happen and enjoying the theorising of others.

Back seat Doctors.

“Pass the Jelly babies.”

“Where are the Jammy Dodgers?”

“Not fish fingers and custard again!”

Cheers

Janette

[janetteB @replies]

Urgh. After reading through two pages of nasty bile on the Dan Martin blog I have come here for a sanity check before heading off to bed. If it wasn’t for this wonderful forum I’d be so disillusioned by Dr Who fans. @jimthefish, if the uber moaners haven’t appeared there yet then I’m glad I quit when I did. What I read was bad enough.

Signing off for the night.

Cheers

Janette

 

[janetteB @replies]

@htpbdet I hope all goes well.

Cheers

Janette

[janetteB @replies]

Like the other members of the night shift, I will be finding it difficult to resist the temptation to read comments on Sunday but I will share in that toast on Sunday night. (umm. Must buy some Jammy Dodgers, now I know what they are.)

I’m sticking to my Clara as a creation of the Tardis idea. Possibly there are alternate time lines. (I love alternate time lines) or maybe it keeps spitting out replacements when one dies. I will settle for her having been generated by River Song, to ensure that the Doctor is never alone, knowing that she is soon going to the Library. Clara is her parting gift.

Much though I would love to see the return of Susan I don’t think that is going to happen, not until the anniversary special anyway.

I agree with @blenkinsopthebrave re’ the Dark Doctor. I also don’t really trust MOffat’s claims that there is going to be a major game changer. I think any game changer will be minor. He does tend to exaggerate.

My only theory about the importance of the Doctor’s name is that it will unlock the time lock thus unleashing the Time Lords and that could well be the game changer as the Doctor is no longer the lonely last survivor and the Time Lords might well want retribution for having been locked away and had their planet destroyed.

Have loved all the wonderful bonkers theorising. There are a few top story ideas in these threads. Moffat take notice..

Cheers

Janette

 

[janetteB @replies]

@ardaraith thanks for letting us know about the “field report.” Nothing spoilery. I look forward to seeing more of the Paternoster Gang this weekend.

R.S. was born to kill the Doctor but ends up continually saving him. Is Clara’s character trajectory going to be the opposite?

I really don’t think that there is going to be a regeneration this year. (Of course that is in part fueled by wishful thinking I’ll happily admit.)

Cheers

Janette

[janetteB @replies]

@HTBDET I did not mean my comment to be a criticism in any way. I think JLC is doing a fantastic job of portraying the differing aspects of the personality in the different incarnations. Blank was possibly not the best word, Current Clara seems to me to be undeveloped as a personality, much in the same way I was when I first left home having been massively over protected. She appears not to have lived, not to have had an opportunity to develop tastes, preferences, likes, dislikes. IT is as though she is discovering herself, what she is capable of as she travels. Victorian Clara appeared to be very conscious of who she was and what she was capable of. She has the confidence to disobey the Doctor, something that current Clara so obviously lacks. For an actor I would think that current Clara is a very challenging role and is the reason why some viewers have failed to “connect” with her character. She is only learning to connect with herself. This is why I think she is a construct, human yes but not a “natural born” human and I don’t find the mystery of Clara has gone boring at all. Like you I cannot wait to find out just how or what she is. I think she might well end up being one of my favourite companions. (provided she doesn’t get love sick over the Doctor that is.:) )

Cheers

Janette

[janetteB @replies]

Not especially relevant to NiS but this is really the last thread for bonker theorising before the weekend. Currently re watching Snowmen looking for clues before the weekend. Two rather minor details I’ve noticed. Both of no significance. The Montague family motto is “Let equity be the rule of our actions.” (according to one website anyway.) The other is the name Captain Latimer. Latimer is a Reviers name, another very very obscure Cumbria reference? The Captain is a mirror character for the Doctor, disengaged at first, unable to care for his children, he is made to relate to them by Clara’s death.

What really strikes me watching this is Clara’s personality. It is the most rounded of the three Clara’s and contrasts strongly with the current incarnation. I think the reason people find it hard to relate to Clara is her blankness. Her character is lacking but not in the other two incarnations. IT seems as though there is a linked consciousness between the three incarnations.

Cheers

Janette

 

 

[janetteB @replies]

@bluesqueakpip I “loved” your post and I humbly take back my criticism of the ending of Closing Time. It is love that has kept the Doctor on our screens and protected the integrity of the show. I also loved your cybermen-accountant/exec analagy. Quite apt. May love save the Doctor from cyberisation for ever.

Cheers

Janette

 

[janetteB @replies]

That is a good point @Shazzbot re’ the ending of Closing Time. It wasn’t love though so much as basic human instinct, but as you say, the instinct to survive is always present and can lead to some rather powerful emotions, “fear, anger, hate. There is so much I like about Closing Time but the end always diasappoints. I would have accepted it had his instinctive reaction to his son crying, (which as a parent is quite compelling) disrupted the process for long enough for the Doctor to do something to stop it. What makes the Cybermen and the process of cyberisation so frightening is the immunity to human emotions and instincts.

I assumed that the Golden ticket was a Willy Wonka reference, in keeping with the subject, taking children to a fun park.

Much though I love the Dark Doctor theories I don’t think that we are going to see that played out. I sometimes suspect that there is more inspiration on this site than in the corridors of the BBC. So many bonkers theories have been developed here which I would love to see in scripts. (Maybe with the exception of @blenkinsopthebrave‘s cricket one though.  🙂 it might make for an amusing prequel or skit)

Cheers

Janette

[janetteB @replies]

@whohar, The Ted Peake theory was sheer brilliance. The night shift has done it’s duty thanks to our inspired @blenkinsopthebrave. (I have erased all knowledge of cricket since leaving home. Maybe the Dr has done the same. Erased all knowledge of cricket since his fifth incarnation and will need to re awaken those memories to save the day. But if the eleventh doesn’t fall there will be no “ashes” and the game of cricket would loose it’s appeal. Umm. beginning to warm to this theory.

Cheers

Janette

[janetteB @replies]

@blenkinsopthebrave, I think you will need to hide behind the sofa along with Moffatt if that theory proves true. 🙂

cheers

Janette

[janetteB @replies]

Have been pondering my theory re’ Clara being a creation of the Tardis. It’s had plenty of human DNA over the years to study so it should be capable of creating a fairly convincing, workable model. I toyed with the idea that River created Clara but then it occurred to me that maybe the Doctor created Clara/will create Clara, to take care of infant River. HE heads off promising ot find her and we assume he had some involvement in rearing her. Maybe, knowing that he was totally inept when it comes to caring for children and keeping them from danger, he had the Tardis whip up a nanny/governess to do the job. In the Snowmen she tells the children that she was born behind a clock, (in the Tardis) and that she created the fish to swim in, or some thing like that. Could that be an obscure River reference? Maybe the Tardis went into overdrive and spat out a few too many models and so scattered them around space or found another use for them. She of course would not recognise River in the shop, if it was River as there has been at least one regeneration since then. The backstory for Clara is something the Doctor has programmed for her. Ok. Bonkers I know.  I think I have now tied myself up into a theorising knot.

Cheers

Janette

[janetteB @replies]

I am with you @lula on Matt’s costume for this series. I really like it but I am totally in agreement with @jimthefish on the resdesign of the Tardis interior. I just don’t think it works. I don’t have such a problem with the opening but the face looks more like Colin Baker than Matt which bothers me. @osakahatter  I don’t think the two parts of a two parter need to be stand alone.

@phileasf Apparantly JMS (B.5.) was inspired by shows like Dr Who and more especially Blakes Seven. The way series are shown in the U.S. (with breaks mid season) created lots of problems with designing an arc story. Personally what attracted me to B.5 and more recently Fringe was the arcs. I have never been a fan of series like Star Trek which consist entirely of stand alone episodes. So naturally I love Dr Who arcs and want more arc even when I suspect that sometimes the writers get themseles tied in knots which they can’t unravel.

Cheers

Janette

 

[janetteB @replies]

I agree @bobbingbird re’ the two parters. I feel that this series has really suffered from rushed scripts. If episodes are to be 45 minutes then were need more two parters. I would much prefer the series to comprise entirely two parters rather than individual episodes that lack depth and tension. My partner suspects that the film is sped up. Some of the episodes certainly have that feel.

I have enjoyed the episodes however and think Moffat has strewn clues about, mostly red herrings. They all benefit from a re watch and I can’t wait until next Saturday.

Cheers

Janette

[janetteB @replies]

Still pondering. We never find out how Clara’s mother dies. Maybe she was killed by the autons. (Rose) Possibly Clara also died then and current Clara is not the original either or maybe the past that Dr witnessed was a construct, hence the difference in leaves. Her only real characteristics are nurturing and a desire to explore/travel, though she cannot think of any specific locations. Still haven’t worked out how she gets scattered in time. Urgh. Can’t explain how she would end up on a Dalek planet or the Alaska/snowmen connection. Think my theory has just hit the dust. Maybe time I did some work..

Cheers

Janette

[janetteB @replies]

Final theorising? Here’s my poor effort nothing new here, I have simply consolidated though I am so certain that I am hesitant to post my ideas here. (Though I have never been right before.)

I think Clara is a construct of the Tardis. It can make things, of which we were reminded in this episode with the phone. (The phone served no pupose other than to remind us of this.) His comment about the skirt, while clearly echoing Cyber Doctor also implied that she is “smaller on the outside”.  Her comment in “Snowmen” implied a prior familiarity with the interior of the Tardis. The Tardis is her mother, hence all the mother and daughter references and she is created to be nanny/governess to the Doctor. She is the first assistant/companion in over a thousand years who does as she’s told. It has long been established that humans don’t take orders. Maybe the Dr programmed the Tardis to generate her and then “forgot” for some timey wimey reason or sent her back to an earlier spot in his time stream. Alternately she might have been created by River Song at some time when she was alone in the Tardis. Not sure I really like the idea of an assistant who is replicatable or presumably able to regenerate and is essentially a blank slate, especially as it is that “blankness” that makes Clara difficult to relate to. How any of this ties into the G.I and the explosion of the Tardis, I have no theory as yet. (Working on that one in my spare time.) I suspect that the G.I is simply a new recurring “big bad”.

Cheers

Janette

[janetteB @replies]

I wonder if the next time we see Clara she will be wearing a tight skirt.

Cheers

Janette

[janetteB @replies]

Have finally watched the episode and enjoyed it. (It certainly doesn’t deserve the abuse on the Guardian.) Lots to like but a few quibbles. I found both Angie and Clara irritating though the later might have an excuse. Once again she peforms the role set for her by the Doctor. It is as though he is generating her. I wondered if the reference at the end to the tight skirt has a double meaning, the obvious, which is signalled by his evident discomfort but actually alludes to her “personalty.” She is being compressed into a role of his devising, her personality is being constrained.

I also hope that there is more to hte children than just the shallow little brats they appear to be, (Angie anyway)  but I fear it will not be so. In a way it is a shame that the children weren’t more appealing as giving the companion some other than the Doctor to care for adds depth to the character, something that Clara appears to need if she is to be anything more than a narrative device.

I loved the secondary characters in this and the setting though more time was required to make better use of it.

Interesting play on the  name as password which either sets up the Doctor’s name as password or is a red herring. I can’t decide which.

Cheers

Janette

[janetteB @replies]

“NObody dies” is from The Doctor Dances, Series 1 of nuwho. Interestingly in “The Empty Child” he remarks that in 900 years he had yet to travel with someone who stays put when told to. (Re watched it last night.) IT seems as though Clara is the companion he had always wanted, his ideal companion, as though he has created her.

Have yet to watch NiS so I can’t comment until later tonight or tomorrow but I was really suprised by the vitriol being unleashed on the Guardian blog. One begins to wonder if some of the bloggers are in the employ of DAvros or Madame Kovarian.  (I know I’m cheating reading comments before watching but I had a feeling that being the penultimate episode this one would be arc light.)

Cheers

Janette

[janetteB @replies]

We re-watched The Empty Child and Doctor Dances over dinner and a few things struck me. There are numerous similiarities to the current series arc, (if arc it be). The theme of mother and child is central, the impossible child, dead but still living who is resurrected at the end and the “love saves the day” resolution.  I wonder if Clara is real in any incarnation, but a simulation based upon a fictional model, ie a character in book or story. (I have a feeling I’m repeating myself. Um. I seem to be theorising in circles. I wonder if the painting hidden in the monastry in the 13th C will turn up again and if it is that image upon which the contructed person is based.

cheers

Janette

[janetteB @replies]

@phaseshift, thanks for the link to the pics. I love that the two Drs have the same jackets. (I was going to comment on that fact that they were wearing big, thick ski jackets then saw the crew in their “winter woolies” and recalled the British or more specifically Welsh climate and refrained.)

cheers

Janette

[janetteB @replies]

Finally. I have read to the end of the thread!!! I was away last weekend and so only watched CH on Tuesday night and have been reading posts, when I have time, ever since. As usual there have been so many interesting remarks made that I have wanted to comment upon but by the time I got here I’ve forgotten them all.

So to recap, as much as I recall, C.H. was a fun episode. I don’t think it was lacking in clues or arc detail, just it didn’t add anything mostly because we have covered so many different ideas that there isn’t much to add.

I loved the mother daughter themes where is where I feel the heart of this series lies. Clara as the mother of the TARDIS? I think I am returning to my original vague suspicion that the big mystery involves Time Lords, the time lock and children. I really like the suggestion made pages back by ??? that Clara is the Dr’s nanny.

C.H. depicted Clara at her most normal but I am convinced that normal she is not. Clara is a blank slate, an empty vessel to be filled, hence she often reflects the Dr or those around her. We assume that only one incarnation is the blank slate but maybe the other incarnations have learnt from the first, which appears to be contemporary Clara. Clara is a fake, a forgery and the other incarnations are splits of that.

To the discussion about companions/assistants I feel that it was time to vary the pattern, to have a companion/assistant who was not earth -normal. I liked the old who mix of assistants from earth present, past, future and far flung colonies. Variation adds to the interest and when it comes to Dr Who the only rules are there to be broken.

As to a female Dr, I admit I’m not keen but I wasn’t keen on having a younger Dr either and didn’t think Matt Smith could carry it off so I loved to be proved wrong.

Cheers

Janette.

[janetteB @replies]

I just looked at @zaphod‘s very spoilery twitter links and I almost jumped up and down with excitement. I won’t say much incase other’s have chosen not to look at them as there has been no comment about them thus far but I do wonder what year they are supposed to be. I suspect that at least one is present day which means that we might be meeting Ian Chesterton again. (Has fingers tightly crossed.)

@Shazzbot I too keep wondering about the leaf. I doubt that it was simply a continuity error. It was far too significant for that and the two versions appeared in the same episode so I think we were meant to realise they differ which is what makes me suspect that somehow the past wasn’t real or she isn’t the real Clara and convinces me that Clara is not “just an ordinary girl”.

Have been away all weekend so I haven’t yet seen Crimson Horror so have to avoid that discussion thread until tomorrow. I did however take a sneaky peak at Dan Martin’s blog and noticed that right at the beginning he claims that it is known that Matt is staying on for another year. Is he just remarking upon rumour or has there been an announcement that I have missed, being off line for four days?

Cheers

Janette

[janetteB @replies]

So the maitland children’s full names are Angela and Arthur. interesting. (don’t think Morgana le Fay was too angelic.) Just looked up the surname but can’t spot any significance about it. IT is one letter off from mainland. Can’t think of anything else. Maybe it is jsut a name.

Cheers

Janette

[janetteB @replies]

I haven’t seen the clip for a while but maybe the two young children are supposed to be the children she was taking care of in tBoSJ.  I don’t know however if the age gap is even vaguely close.

Cheers

Janette

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[janetteB @replies]

Just a quick post before heading out to lunch. @lula, good work on picking up all the Omega references. I haven’t watched the older stories in which he featured since I was a teenager so I don’t really remember the character. However going back to “Snowmen”, the Doctor assumes that Simeon imprinted the snow with his thoughts and feelings but the snow was already sentient thank to the G.I. the identity of which remains a mystery. It seems as though there must be someone behind the G.I. Perhaps that is Omega. Omega could also be controlling “the Papal Mainframe”. A lot of the “big bads” in the past three years have been working for some background power. We never find out who Madam Kovarian is working for.

Cheers

Janette

[janetteB @replies]

I always thought the Doctor was running from repressive Gallifreyan society. He also opposed their “don’t interfere rule”. Though Hartnell’s Doctor doesn’t appear to be the rebel hero type or overly concerned with the welfare of others, initially at least but the story is continually evolving. I am not convinced that the Doctor is darker but sometimes he is too focussed on the outcomes or the dangers to notice the details. I do think his characterisation is variable depending a little on the script writer too. I think Madam Kovarian is the enemy. I would not attribute her actions to any fault of of the Doctor’s. I interpret the “long bitter war” as being his crusade against evil doers, maybe the G.I and the Silence.

I can only think of one actor who I could bear to see replace Smith, when he eventually regenerates which I hope won’t be for at least another year, or two, or three,.. as discussed earlier this year on another thread, the wonderful John Noble. (Walter of Fringe & Denethor of LOTR TRotK. ) though I doubt they would opt for a non-English actor.

Cheers

Janette

[janetteB @replies]

Lets hope he can convince the execs to stretch the episodes back to 50 minutes. My only real complaint about this series is the rushed feel. I think it accounts for some of the “it makes no sense” comments. A lot of people just miss stuff, easy to do.

Cheers

Janette

[janetteB @replies]

@blenkinsopthebrave and @bobbingbird I am hoping that you are both right and River isn’t Clara, things just seem to be pointing that way. I agree the indications currently are that she is an ordinary girl, and Clara herself clearly believes that she is, but I suspect that both person and background are cleverly constructed, either to help the Doctor or to destory him. I think that she is sent to help the Dr but doesn’t know it.

I am also worried about MOffatt’s claim that his big reveal will change the course of Who forever. Not too much I hope.

Cheers

Janette

[janetteB @replies]

Just a few rambling musings after reading through all the good work done by the “Day Shift”.

I am leaning increasingly to the theory that Clara is an earlier incarnation of River Song though I prefer her character to be one that makes occasional appearances. I think that Susan’s grandmother must have died before the Doctor left Gallifrey. Susan after all was “the unearthly child”. This leaves the “Governess theme” dangling. I also favour the idea that she is connected to the missing children of Gallifrey. We still don’t know what cargo the Alaska was carrying or why it needed an entertainment officer. JttCotT indicated a severe lack of entertainment on deep space missions or intergalactic trading vessels. I am certain that the Entertainment was not for the crew.

Lots of nice ideas, @Bluesqueekpip. Nice work on the TARDIS moods. @scaryb. I like your idea re’ the G.I taking over the TARDIS. I have a sneaky feeling that we are not hearing enough about the G.I. Mofatt is distracting us from the big bad but they are no doubt plotting behind the scenes. Its seems increasingly unlikely to me that Clara is a construct of the G.I. but it is still possible she is programmed by them. She hasn’t been taking the Doctor to any snowy locations recently. Thinking of Snow and AotD I wonder if the planet was snowy before the crash landing of the Alaska. Maybe it was Clara who was generating the snow. Current Clara is associated with autumn rather than winter. Also she isn’t yet showing much evidence of being a screaming genius ie, her inability to steer the TARDIS.

[janetteB @replies]

@htpbdet I haven’t heard the anagram before either. I rather like it. Clara as a window, for the Dr, on the Dr, on time? IT works in many ways.

Cheers

Janette

[janetteB @replies]

@htpbdet I think she was teasing the Doctor in that exchange rather than being strictly truthful. I suspect seh would say almost anything to make a dent in that massive ego.

Cheers

Janette

 

[janetteB @replies]

Welcome to all new members. @fivefaces good catch ‘re Clara possibly remarking upon the person who gave her the number rather than the identity of the Doctor. I like it. The Doctor has been remarkably disinterested in that since tBoSJ. I guess he had a lot on his mind. I suspect though the number was given to her by River who knew something about Clara. I think Clara’s role is to protect rather than destroy the Doctor though I’m just as happy to think up bonkers solutions suggesting the opposite. Anything is possible except me getting something right.:)

Cheers

Janette.

 

[janetteB @replies]

@blenkinsopthebrave. Sorry. I cheated.

Cheers

Janette

[janetteB @replies]

@htpbdet (&S) I always assumed that it was  the Doctor who taught River to fly the TARDIS, with a little help from a manual maybe. There must be one in that fabulous library. I also suspect that River spent quite some time in that library researching for her Ph’d maybe, and just maybe, as has been speculated by one of the great minds on the other threads, (sorry I don’t recall just who and there are far to many pages to scroll through to check) she wrote the Time War history. That is what led me to conclude that somehow Clara was River pre her regeneration into Mels. Not sure how to make that theory fit into everything else though. Taking a lot of jiggery pokery.

Cheers

Janette.

[janetteB @replies]

@Bluespeakpip I theorised a few pages back, (probably many pages back by now) that Clara might be caring for the children of Gallifrey, who escaped the Time Lock. I suspect it is more than just coincidence that Clara, the Victorian children and the contemporary children are all motherless. The mother of the children she was caring for died a week after she went to stay. It implies that the death was sudden. We don’t know why Clara’s mother died either. I think there are some mysteries there. I still feel that Clara’s back story wasn’t real. IT was rather like a story, as though he was looking into a book. I don’t think Clara is Susan or a close relation of the Doctors, mostly because she snogged him and we are talking BBC kids show. That did imply however that she had some residual memory of him. I am still considering that she might be a pre LKH (Hope I got that right) regen’ of River. River might have had her infant self taken to England, written as back story for her thus creating an ideal family to adapt her then kept an eye on herself. IT’s against all the rules but would River care?My preferred theory, or many theories still revolve around Clara as not being normal. She appears to be but I suspect much about her is fabricated, not by Clara but maybe by Susan or River. I think she is sent to protect the Doctor, maybe to save him hence being given the telephone number in BoSJ.

I have just watched the Special about the First Dr and Moffat talks about Susan. It is clear that Moffat accepts Susan as the Doctor’s granddaughter. He sees the Dr as someone who has had family and lost them so I do think the Doctor’s family are significant and the redisovery of those links might be the “game changer”.

 

Cheers

Janette

[janetteB @replies]

@jimthefish, re’ your comment back on page 5, No apologies required. I seem to spend a lot of time around science grads these days and keep having to make the same point. NObody should have a degree of any kind if they haven’t learnt to think critically. (some might add spelling to that then I’d be in trouble.)

Not a problem that applies to our wonderful little corner of the e-verse here. Lots of brilliant analytical thinking going on.

Now on with two pages of posts to read. You guys across the globe have been busy. Lots of catching up for us on the “night shift”.

Cheers

Janette

[janetteB @replies]

1m Clara as a construct of the TARDIS?

cheers

Janette

[janetteB @replies]

Over on the other side ardaraith commented on the children of Gallifrey. Could the Doctor have rescued the Children of Gallifrey when he time locked the planet. AFter all it wasn’t the children who were responsible for the actions of their elders and it is very unlike the Doctor to punish the innocent purely because of association. If so are the chilren either hidden within the TARDIS, is all of Gallifrey within the TARDIS. Is Clara a child of Gallifrey or is Clara the governess of the Children who somehow keeps escaping from the TARDIS. Not sure how to make that last idea fit. Have to think about it for a bit. Maybe Clara was scattered in time to care for the Gallifreyan children, perhaps there weren’t many of them. I don’t imagine Time Lords were too productive. Both families we have thus far seen her caring for have no mother. Perhaps T.L.s are born in test tubes. Also are there Time people? Assumably not all the citizens of Gallifrey are Lords. Are the non titled citizens also in posession of two hearts and able to regenerate? Do they only gain those atributes when exposed to the Medusa Cascade or the time vortex. If so then the children would not be unlike human children so where better to hide them than on earth.

Cheers

Janette

 

[janetteB @replies]

@haveyoufedthefish If the Tardis is “Infinite” like you I have issues with that concept, though I am an arts graduate, (I’m on the defensive at the moment, 🙂 ) It occurred to me on reading your post that maybe the time war, ie Gallifrey and the Time Lords are contained within that infinite Tardis. He has locked them away inside his TARDIS, hence the eye of harmony.

I haven’t finished reading through all the comments yet and there are so many corkers I want to comment on them all, but a few ideas have emerged. M.S. gave “paintings” as a clue to this series but to me it appears to be books. Thus far only one paiting has featured unless it was a tiny painting that Clara was referring to.

The Dr compares her skin to parchment. is she in fact a literary construct? Something created by the pen of River Song who then gave her the phone number in the shop in BoST.

I like @HolyMackeral’s theory that the Clara is alternative TARDIS, maybe the Master’s.

Cheers

Janette

[janetteB @replies]

Having read through all the posts I am again speculating on the Clara as River Song possibility, only as an earlier regeneration of R.S. That is problematical as she must have been about at the same time as R.S. The only way I can think of getting around that is that her reality is in an alternate universe. Time certainly seems to be rather distorted in this series. (most notably in Hide.) Then again the Doctor is happily crossing his own time stream in this series so perhaps, provided they don’t intersect, it is possible.

Cheers

Janette

 

[janetteB @replies]

First a quick post after finally getting to watch the episode. (so apologies to all those who most certainly ahve already observed the following.) Two things that struck me, the Tardis can create stuff and it has the “ghosts” of former companions within it. So is human DNA amongst the things the Tardis can create? Maybe not just Clara is a creation of the Tardis, maybe many if nto all of the former assistants have been generated by the Tardis. Maybe the TARDIS can also generate alternate universes.

Now back to catch up on three pages of comments/bonkers theorising. Been looking forward to this all day.

Cheers

Janette

[janetteB @replies]

The Doctor always returns when Britain is in need. I have always wondered how he manages that. So Oswald was the nemesis of JFKs camelot. King Oswald, though not associated with Arthurian legend in any way that I can find, was roughly a contemporary of Arthur’s give or take a century. Nice though it would be to link the good Dr with the good king I can’t quite work out a connection. I do like the idea of the Doctor as Merlin. That has potential. Merlin must have been a time lord. It would also play into the Cumbra connection but then Arthurian legends crop up all over the Isles.

cheers

Janette

[janetteB @replies]

@blenkinsopthebrave, it has been noted. Your reminder just inspired me to devise a novel theory connecting King Arthur to the Dr but decided that it was just too bonkers to live. Must be bed time here as well I think.

Cheers

Janette

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