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@thane15  Thane and Puro, I’m sorry if any of us were too troublesome for you.

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@craig  Thanks! I do feel happy to be here and enjoy all the chatter.

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@jimthefish No apology needed.  I like what you have to say!  🙂

 

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@jimthefish  Ah, I was not even into Who back in those days, but yes, I can see where they would have taken that tack too.  My apologies.  I try to defer with those with experience.  Nothing to be ashamed of!  😉

Also, that’s an interesting comparison point — certainly the Hinchcliffe years are the closest tonally to Capaldi’s tenure.  I found a lot to like about the Graham Williams years, so that will be interesting if that turns out to be the case with CC…I am certainly interested about where it’s going.

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@blenkinsopthebrave I agree that there was more doom and gloom in the Twelfth Doctor seasons than usual.  It frustrates me too, because it’s clear from the expanded universe the character can work in lighter stories (see Titan Comics for instance), and more TV episodes of that kind would have allowed breathing room.  Still, Xmas will be a fun sendoff even with tears.  🙂

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@nick No, it probably won’t be a straight retread of the RTD years — if only because that’s not what the mainstream audience wants at this point either.  Sci-fi/fantasy television has changed quite a bit since the revival began, after all; the scale is getting bigger, the universes are getting more complex (and often intertwined, at least in the U.S.), etc. and I think retooling Doctor Who is going to involve acknowledging that, perhaps seeing what currently-trendy elements might be workable in the Who setting, as per a more “audience friendly” approach.

Chibnall has said that a lot of options are on the table, such as a single storyline unfolding over the season rather than an arc woven in and out of it, which would fit the idea of a less character-driven Who…

@jimthefish, the disaster of the Colin Baker years has been discussed fairly well over at the AV Club website (see their Doctor Who (Classic)  reviews).  There was a genuine risk involved in moving from the youthful, amiable Fifth Doctor to the more abrasive Sixth Doctor, and a tonal shift for the show into more violent adventures akin to what was going on in non-Spielberg science fiction of the 1980s (which was pretty dystopian).  It just wasn’t pulled off well on a creative level, but it wasn’t playing it safe either.

It will be interesting to see what risks are taken and which ones aren’t with Series 11…we will have to see.

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@jimthefish  I think part of what’s going on — with the possibility of no bells and whistles for the Thirteenth Doctor announcement — has to do with the fact that Doctor Who just isn’t as popular right now as it was back in 2013.  Matt Smith’s Doctor was very popular with the mainstream, the franchise was gearing up for the 50th anniversary, etc.  Flash-forward to now, and the revival’s posting its lowest ratings ever in the U.K.

Peter Capaldi simply wasn’t what “the people” wanted, sad to say.  The less-whimsical approach, the often tragic turns of his story arcs, the deeper, richer, slower character development…perhaps the people who loved previous hit-the-ground-running Doctors couldn’t care less about all that, lost patience, and left.  I think ageism and lookism also had a lot to do with it.

And I think the BBC wants something safe and chosen-by-committee for Thirteen.  The Beeb’s had a hard time of late.  Their biggest show in-country (The Great British Bake-Off) has jumped to Channel 4.  As far as their export-ready shows go, Sherlock is gone for at least a while if not for good, and Top Gear hasn’t recovered from losing its long-standing host team — whereas the show they went on to, The Grand Tour, has been a big online hit.

Doctor Who is one of their remaining international-market friendly shows, but it does need to be “restored” to the mainstream glory it had in the Tennant and especially Smith years.  Unfortunately, that’s pretty much a huge strike against doing anything bold or daring with it now.  They tried that with Capaldi, and it just didn’t pan out.

Oh, it panned out in terms of quality, but quality doesn’t pay the bills these days….

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Steven Moffat’s given some more hints to the Christmas show: It’s going to be funny and lively rather than a deliberate tearjerker, all the better to tug at the audience’s heartstrings.  O-kay…  😉  But seriously the mixed signals from what we spoiler-hounds know and what the Moff’s promising are actually pretty intriguing, and there are still so many unknowns at play (is there even going to be an antagonist character, for instance — and what kind?).  To have the final story be about light emerging from the darkness would be something we could all use right now, as our pop culture gets increasingly grim in the face of tough times.  If they can pull this off, it could be the greatest regeneration story ever.

Digital Spy article

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@ichabod Over at the essay/discussion site DoWntime, the roundtable on this episode pointed out that privilege is a big part of this story.  The Doctor is hyperfocused on helping out his fellow wo/man Missy, convincing the reluctant Bill and Nardole to help with the test.  But when things go pear-shaped with Jorj, it’s poor Bill, a person with not near so much privilege as the Doctor — a Time Lord — who pays the price for it, as often happens to the “little people” in Who who end up going down with the ship.  No wonder he feels guilty; he wanted to redeem a privileged peer, and then even his authority couldn’t protect his all-too-human friend from harm.  Jorj was a “little person” himself, in the sense he was a janitor.  Privilege only goes so far.

And from there, Bill remains “small”, toiling away at the hospital, a sad picture of what it’s like to live in the Whoniverse and deal with its troubles and dangers, but not have the Doctor in the vicinity.  (Class also explores this concept.)

@tardigrade The Doctor Who expanded universe is rarely regarded as canon.  In the Gap Years, there were some stabs at making the Virgin Publishing novels and the Doctor Who Magazine comic hold to show continuity and each other, but they ultimately diverged.  The Big Finish audios went with a completely different continuity for the Eighth Doctor than the BBC Eighth Doctor Adventures novels did.  At this point, most expanded universe works — novels, comics, etc. — are non-canon.

Most are deliberately designed to fit into the downtime between televised stories, and if an author wants to do something that would grossly contradict the televised canon, they will be vetoed.  For instance, author Gary Russell wanted his 2015 novel Big Bang Generation to feature River Song as the co-protagonist with the Twelfth Doctor, but this was shot down because River meeting Twelve for the first time and not even recognizing him was the premise of the Christmas special that year.  (He rewrote it to feature Bernice Summerfield, a long-established expanded universe character, as the co-lead.)  Most of the expanded universe is just fun further adventures of the characters, although there are a lot of What If? stories too.

The one part of the expanded universe that is semi-canon are the Big Finish audio dramas.  In “The Night of the Doctor”, the people Eight names as he prepares to regenerate are the companions he had known over the course of his audio plays up to that point.  (Several of whom had died for good; even Twelve isn’t this unlucky!)

In general, the audio plays are designed to be compatible with the televised canon, but there have been some specifically designed as What If? pieces or are retellings of other expanded universe works — such as a dramatization of the Virgin New Adventures Novel Damaged Goods.  The televised continuity can contradict (and effectively rewrite) Big Finish stories but not the other way around.  In fact, the AG series has often loosely adapted Big Finish concepts and stories.

This is actually happening right now.  Some Big Finish fans have a beef with “World Enough and Time” because one of the most popular BF stories ever, the Fifth Doctor/Nyssa story “Spare Parts”, was also a Genesis of the Cybermen story.  It had previously been an inspiration for “Rise of the Cybermen”/”The Age of Steel” for the Tenth Doctor, but “World Enough and Time” draws upon “Spare Parts” more heavily, particularly by focusing on the tragic plight of the Mondasians.  Fans of “Spare Parts” are hoping that this finale won’t completely eliminate its quasi-canon status via contradiction.

Other examples of expanded universe work being incorporated into the AG series include:

• “Dalek” is a very loose take on the Sixth Doctor audio “Jubilee”.
• “Human Nature”/”The Family of Blood” was an adaptation of the most beloved Virgin New Adventures novel, Human Nature, by the original author Paul Cornell.  The biggest change was swapping out the Seventh Doctor and Bernice for the Tenth Doctor and Martha.
• Steven Moffat’s first contribution to the Whoniverse was the Seventh Doctor short story “Continuity Errors” for the anthology Decalog 3.  His “A Christmas Carol” recycles its core concept of the Doctor trying to save the day by altering a deeply unhappy person’s past.

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@pedant In one of the Twelfth Doctor comics from Titan, he uses part of that quote in a conversation….and then says “Should never haven given that quote away.  Could’ve dined out on it all across the universe.”  😉  (Seriously, the Twelfth Doctor monthly title is great for anyone who likes comics.)

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@wolfweed I don’t think there’s enough room for any more X-is-Y reveals myself.  They’ve only got an hour to wrap this up and there’s enough on the platter as it is, and then big action scenes… 😀

I didn’t catch the walking stick, but yeah, it could well be foreshadowing.  It’ll be interesting to see what’s bringing out the golden glow and how much time passes for him…imagine a crumbling Doctor!  Maybe he needs to put in false teeth by the halfway point, a hearing aid, etc.  😉

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@nick  I agree that it’s just too hard to come up with a recurring Time Lord baddie that won’t come off as Master 2.0.  That’s pretty much what Rassilon became in Supremacy of the Cybermen.

I know that the Rani and the Valeyard are the two most requested BG villains that haven’t shown up in the AG series (I guess they’ve both had a lot of Big Finish audios), but it’s just not going to happen.  The one big thing that the Valeyard had distinguishing him from the Master was the conceit that he was the embodiment of the Doctor’s dark side, which worked at a time when the franchise really was just for the kiddies, but AG has enjoyed more freedom to just let the Doctor crack up now and then and show his darker aspects in the process, as in “The Waters of Mars”, “Amy’s Choice”, and “Hell Bent”.  The Valeyard would be/have been especially redundant in the Twelfth Doctor era; Twelve is sort of a “sacred darkness” figure.

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@tardigrade, Last year, Titan Comics did a five-part miniseries, Supremacy of the Cybermen, specifically about Rassilon trying to get vengeance on the Doctor for the events of “Hell Bent” — he turned out to have a place to go after all and enlisted the help of the very last Cybermen.  They conquer Gallifrey, completely rewrite the universe with a zillion paradoxes involving every Doctor either being converted or seeing companions converted, etc.  Rassilon turns out to have bitten more than he can chew though, and in the end helps the Doctor push a big red metaphorical reset button and only the Doctor (and maybe Rassilon) remembers the alternate timelines.

Sad to say, it wasn’t very good — because it was splitting its time between the Ninth, Tenth, Eleventh, and Twelfth Doctors (none of whom cross over) it didn’t really explore the conflict between Twelve and Rassilon — for instance, Clara Oswald isn’t mentioned once.   I skipped issues 3 and 4 (it was really slow to be released, which didn’t help) and felt I didn’t miss much.  I thought it was a shame that the comics were allowed to do a story like this and dropped the ball, especially as the Twelfth Doctor’s monthly title is exceptional.

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“Rage” is a good way of putting it!  And we know Twelve is full of that!  I think it will help him.  😉

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@pitircapaldi  There have been multi-Doctor stories, why not multi-Master stories?  🙂  Or are you asking about something more technical?

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@pedant  Well, I’m from the United States…I confess I don’t get the death penalty myself.  I mean, I see where the arguments come from, but I can’t wrap my head around it.   🙁

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@pedant  I suppose I am.  I actually have noticed the symmetry of the Doctor aiding the rural folk in “The Doctor Falls” with the kindness and courage of the Drylanders in “Hell Bent” (can’t be a coincidence they’re both season finales) — but not in the way you’re pointing out.

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@thane15  I think it’s better that the Gallifrey issue isn’t as pronounced now, even if I personally have some niggly bits I would like to see worked out.

The problem with the TL’s being destroyed by the Doctor’s hand was that blowing up Gallifrey was just too big a sin for him to move past without looking like a monster, so it hung over the revival like a cloud until the 50th.  Then Moffat undid it and from there was able to reset the Doctor’s position with Gallifrey in “Hell Bent”, and it no longer matters all that much.  It still informs the Doctor’s loneliness (i.e. his need to redeem the Master/Missy) but in a much different way.

Which reminds me that poor Twelve never got a cool nickname in his era.  10 got to be the Lonely God and 11 the Oncoming Storm.  12 didn’t get anything cooler than Doctor Disco, and he gave himself that moniker.  😉

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@thane15  But doesn’t he owe it to Bill to save her ASAP?  I mean, he could have saved him and her and the universe so much trouble if he’d just let Missy fry back in “Extremis”…destroying evil is not an evil act, after all.

In the meantime though, wow, you come from very strong stock indeed Thane and Puro!  Thank you for sharing that story, and your kindness.  I wish I had the means to be so brave for others.  But my situation as an autistic woman who depends on others for transportation, lodging, and such means I can’t participate in the causes I would like to.  (Charity donations and such, I do those…but it just isn’t the same.)

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If the Doctor wants to prevail though, why not focus on saving Bill in the finale this Saturday?  Why is he wasting time with those farmers in “The Doctor Falls”?  Think about it — the Mondasians are doomed, they can’t make it.  He can’t change that, but he can save Bill.  He and Nardole should focus on getting to the lifts and getting her back to the TARDIS, to heal her.  It would also be a great way to stick it to the Masters!  😉   But nooooo, he helps out others too and is “rewarded” with lonely death in the snow.  An inspiration to us all…

Basically, I think following one story involving war and battlefields with another story involving war and battlefields is a weird idea if the Doctor is seeking peace and joy. If anything it’s a reminder of why humanity just ain’t worth the trouble.  As Missy said, he’s too arrogant and sentimental…

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@jimthefish Never seen “Sergeant York”.  But I don’t see why, if Moff wants to do an uplifting story, he’d set it during a war, especially an real, Earthly one he can’t stop from happening.  I’m assuming this isn’t going to be Twelve’s version of “The Doctor, the Widow and the Wardrobe “, though I guess it could be. But if he’s going to be bereft and hurting, especially because his companions are gone — I doubt there’s a new companion waiting for him here, though again there could be — I can think of many better places for him to be to embrace life again than a time and place marked by the worst of humanity, where life is cheap and Death rules.

Unless it turns out Clara is here?…

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Hmmm…but a wartime setting doesn’t make sense for the Twelfth Doctor’s finale.  He’s getting his latest fill of war in “The Doctor Falls”.  And Moffat said the Xmas show would be a story of redemption and hope, of moving on, not another sad tale of death and destruction.  There’s no redemption or hope in the trenches.  Why not a warm place where the home fires burn, where people who love him are so he won’t die alone and anguished?  Why No Man’s Land instead of the Promised Land?  And where will Bill and Nardole fit into all of this?

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@jimthefish  No, I think you make some good points.  While I am disappointed that the Twelfth Doctor hasn’t rebuilt his burnt bridges with his people — which would be a good Christmas premise, but I kinda doubt that the Moff’s going to be doing that — given his “always make amends” principle, it is better for him and the show not to have that hanging over him so much.

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Now here’s another comparison between Master-as-Razor and the Doctor that I just thought of tonight — and it might be a clue to Bill’s salvation.

Nardole originally met the Doctor while helping River Song with a plan that was risky, and where things ultimately went very wrong.  He ended up with his head lopped off and attached to that of Hydroflax’s body (and later had to share it with Ramon).  But eventually, the Doctor was able to give him a cyborg body that — while put together on the cheap — seems to work pretty well and look pretty human.  And he has since been a faithful, amiable companion who retains his agency.  Even if the Doctor doesn’t listen to him all that often, he does have to remember that Nardole is authorized to kick his butt!

Now the Master’s taken poor Bill’s body and ultimately turned it into a near-helpless robot slave….

But the Doctor can find a way to fix her like he fixed up Nardole.  It wouldn’t be quite the same, it wouldn’t be perfect, but she could be happy again as a cyborg or otherwise.

Does anyone else here agree with my friend’s theory that Moffat will bring his Who stories full circle here by making “The Doctor Falls” thematically loop back to “The Doctor Dances” and its triumphant ending?  It’s not impossible to have this turn out to be Everybody Lives.  Who wants to see a Doctor go out on a bum note anyway?  All he has to do is show a little love… 😉

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I don’t know, I just feel angry and disappointed by the prospect of Twelve dying alone like this, in the snowy wastes.  It seems like a cruel, callous way to see out a character who wasn’t as popular with the “mainstream” audience.  Where’s the warmth of the TARDIS, visions of absent friends, love and peace in his hearts, a head held high?  He’s suffering enough right now.

I know, I know, there’s still “The Doctor Falls” and the Christmas show, but I want this poor old dog to be thrown the juiciest bone possible before he goes.  A reunion with Susan,  1,000 years of “wiggle room” with Clara, something like that.  😉

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@thane15  Anguish as part of a fall, I understand.  But the Twelfth Doctor does not deserve to fall and die alone. He deserves to rise to glory!

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@thane15. Yes, peace and contentment would be enough I think…but the Doc sure looks upset and anguished in the snow!  Maybe he snaps and just blows up the ship to end all his problems?

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@jimthefish I’m thinking you’re right on both counts.  Actually, the “World Enough and Time” pics spoiled stuff involving Cybermen that doesn’t happen until “The Doctor Falls”, so the reserves were low.  😉

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@jimthefish The simulation idea is fascinating, up to and including the regeneration!  But most non-diehard viewers, and even some of the diehards, would feel cheated.  “Lie of the Land” got into enough trouble already for pulling the wool.  ( Not to mention that there was a “Family Guy” two-parter that pulled this very concept and mocked itself at the end.). 😉

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@jimthefish Interesting take.  🙂  But yeah, how do they de-Cyberize Bill without reducing the menace of the Cybermen down the line?  To me, Heather Creature seemed the best hope for that, a unique, singular solution.  What would be the most satisfying way to save Bill, but only Bill?  Hmm…

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Photo galleries are up for “The Doctor Falls” but they’re very stingy.  Samantha Spiro’s character Hazran — who looks to be a farmer/matron — warrants portraits for some reason.  Are the Mondasians are upgrading to fight beings like this… 😀

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@thane15  Thane, that is a good point about happiness you make.  Here in America at least self-happiness has become the name of the game, not helping others and being curious.  Explains a lot actually about where society is going.  But I hope for some sunshine next week anyway.  Twelve hasn’t had his Big Bang yet, his day of glory, his happy season finale, and there’s just one more chance for that.  😉

As for the Hybrid, that’s done and dusted.  The Moff confirmed last year in Doctor Who Magazine that Clara Oswald and the Doctor were the Hybrid all along — and that was why the TARDIS was initially uncooperative with Clara in Series 7, because it knew.  Obviously he’s retconning that loose end there, because Jenna Coleman was not originally going to be in Series 9, but there you go.  (I prefer my headcanon that the Hybrid is the Doctor alone, if only because he said as much.)  The TARDIS seems to know where everyone and everything must end up, it seems.  Not sure why it takes Twelve to a snowy waste here though…  😉

@tardigrade @nick

Keep in mind that “The Doctor Falls” will be a 60-minute episode.  But yes, even with it extended runtime there is a lot to be wrapped up.   I think this is one reason the Time Lords are probably not involved in all this.  I would have liked to see some of the many loose ends of “Hell Bent” finally addressed by the end of Twelve’s run (do the TL’s forgive the Doctor?  Did he and Ohila mend fences?  Who is Lord President now?), but I don’t think there’s time for that.

Consider what does have to be wrapped up:

• The fate of Cyber!Bill: Will the Doctor restore her humanity, use time travel to undo her awful fate, or find a way to “evolve” her in a timey-wimey way to a reasonable state?  (A wonderful theory broached elsewhere is that at the bottom-most level of the ship are the final evolutions of Cybermen…who just resemble ordinary humans via nanotech.)  Or will she need to make a heroic sacrifice?  Or will the Doctor have to mercy kill her?
• Missy and the Doctor: This relationship has been the longest-running plot thread of Twelve’s tenure.  Will it end in endless sorrow or a fleeting moment of joy and hope?
• Why Saxon is there: Was this whole business with the ship all his idea — possibly intended as a trap for his later self as well as the Doctor (in which case, the Doctor’s good intentions going awry were not his fault at all because he was lured there without knowing it!) — or not?  And if not, how did he get here and what does he intend to do?
• What are on the upper floors, and why must they be fought?
• What’s on the lower, faster-moving floors, for that matter?
• Will the ship ever get out of the black hole?  Or will it and its occupants have to go down into it for the greater good?
• How does all this fit into the Saxon and Missy timelines, and is the regeneration from one to the other involved?
• How will this affect the history of the Cybermen?
• What can the Doctor do for all those poor Mondasians, if anything?
• What’s to become of Nardole, who barely had anything to do in this episode?
• Possibly, the loose ends of “The Pilot”: Where did the leaky ship come from and why?  Was Heather even human in the first place? Could she do something to help Bill and the Doctor?
• And why is the Doctor alone when he begins regenerating in a snowy waste?

No Time for Rassilon and company here.  Those who are interested in a post-“Hell Bent” story that involves Gallifrey might look at the Titan Comics crossover miniseries Supremacy of the Cybermen instead, in which Rassilon tries to get vengeance on the Twelfth Doctor by teaming up with the last Cybermen.  I didn’t think it was very good, because it hardly dealt with the conflict at its core in favor of alternating it with What If? scenarios with the Ninth, Tenth and Eleventh Doctors involving rewritten timelines and most of the characters ending up converted or captive.

The really weird thing?  “Hell Bent” was 65 minutes and didn’t have to deal with near so much plot as “The Doctor Falls” will have to…

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@pedant Well, I know that and my friend knows that.  😉  But come on, it’s hard to see how there’s a Happy Christmas show to be had if everybody but the Doc goes out in a body bag next week, it can’t be too dark!

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@blenkinsopthebrave I think I mentioned this here or elsewhere, but the pre-titles scene was actually shot just 2 weeks ago*, so I think Capaldi grew out his hair for it.  As for why he’s so disheveled, well, perhaps the real Doctor really gets put through the wringer in “The Doctor Falls”.  And he never did show so much as 5 o’clock shadow in “Heaven Sent”.  Maybe it’s a Time Lord thing.

*This is why the early advance screeners didn’t include the scene — SFX weren’t ready to go — also, just to keep that bit from being spoiled

@ichabod  I’m not sure Bill knowing or not knowing about regeneration would have helped her out here any more than it might have in “The Pyramid at the End of the World” (she does at least know now that Time Lord genders can change), but it’s possible that, especially after he was ready to give himself up in “Eaters of Light”, the Doctor has explained that to her offscreen.

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@wolfweed  I understand your “Empty Child” joke up there, but my non-forum chatting friend believes that the chances are good that we’re actually going to get an Everybody Lives ending next week.  Why would the Moff and company want to end the Twelfth Doctor’s story (and the Moff era of the show) on a bum note?

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@jimthefish But who else could Pearl be playing at this point?  The credits list in Radio Times list her as playing Bill, and I can’t imagine working in a flashback at this point….

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@brewski @jimthefish This in fun bonkering, but exactly how are all these Time Lords suddenly disguising themselves as each other and fooling everybody?  I’m thinking they don’t all have rubber masks, wigs, eyebrows, dresses, etc. on their persons right now.

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Now here’s something a friend of mine brought up that I don’t think’s been mentioned yet.  Expeditions can’t keep coming up to retrieve humans unless they can return from the lower levels.  The alien crewman noted that Bill was not the first person to be taken.  But then why does the Master tell Bill that no one returns from lower levels?  Good question, no?  Was he telling her lies to discourage her from escaping?  What are on those those other floors?

(I apologize for looking ahead to the Xmas special again in my last post…I was too late to edit.)

Also…how much of a fixed point might this be?  Well, that’s another hint at what’s to come.  The AV Club’s review of this episode pointed out that this is “The Day of the Master” in more ways than one.   What we have here is the Saxon Master in the place of the War Doctor, looking ahead to his future.  But where the War Doctor sees hope in the future as a result of a dark deed and he and his future selves need to see they could do even better than that,  Saxon sees disaster in the future if he doesn’t do a dark and foul deed that will leave Missy with no one who believes in her being anything more than evil.

So maybe for Missy what becomes of Bill is a smaller-scale version of the Doctor destroying Gallifrey.  Something she regrets and forgets, until it comes back to haunt her just when she has perhaps the one chance in all her and the Doctor’s lives to reconcile and breaks the heart(s) of the teacher traveling with her — and that would be the Doctor.

If this is the case it would be the Doctor who holds the Clara/Moment role here, who convinces her that she can change Bill’s fate, the way that he was able to change Gallifrey’s fate when it seemed impossible.  She won’t be able to draw upon her other selves for help, the way the Doctor could, because she is an anomaly among the Masters, but she finds a way.  It just exerts a steep price…

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@thane15  It’s hard for the therapy to work when, if nothing else, the opening scene of this one suggests the poor Doctor will be abandoned by everybody and in agony, alone, when he regenerates!  😉  He’s done nothing to deserve such an awful fate; he’s suffered enough, and those who hurt him not nearly enough.  He’s the most loving, and for better or worse, human Doctor of all.  He deserves to “die” with love and peace in his hearts, as his revival era predecessors did.  A glorious sendoff as he revisits everyone he loved, or just has someone who loves him by his side.  A death in which he knows at last that he was a good man.

I suppose he’s not totally alone because he has the TARDIS, but why stumble outside like that then?  And why would ol’ Sexy be so cruel as to bring him to a cold, lonely place?  This is what I mean when I say I would have liked to see more of Twelve’s joy, and less of his agony.  My autistic nature feels that very deeply and unless River returns to him on that snowscape…or Clara…or Bill, for that matter…

But the Moff did say that this storyline leads right into Christmas and Twelve’s ultimate fate, so while this may or may not be a fakeout, there is more we have not seen yet.

Now here is some more thinking on my part — there have been arguments made (not here) that Bill’s fate in this episode sees all of her agency being stripped, and that this is an insult to the character and her growth.  I am not so sure.  She freely made the choice to help the Doctor and knew the risks.  Also @thane15, I think you’d be the first to say that both she and the Doctor grew much for knowing each other and had great joys for that.  It may not have ended well, but it was better that he did not throw away that chance at the beginning with a mind wipe.  Many people in the real world end their lives as prisoners of their bodies, sick and dying; at least Bill had a chance to live fully before…well.  I don’t think she holds a grudge against the Doctor.

Because if he could be said to have failed her (though he did his best) she failed him too in a way (though she did her best).  What’s interesting is that once she’s in the hospital, and the Master-as-Razor “befriends” her, he basically is working as an anti-Doctor figure to strip her of all her growth, almost like a mind wipe.  He is much more amiable than the Doctor, seeming to be the nicer person on the surface, which was also seen (down to tea) with Missy in the Nethersphere in Series 8.  But where the Doctor was originally fond of Bill because of her curiosity and wanted to encourage her to learn and grow into someone more than just a person dishing up chips, the Master only “teaches” her enough to think that there’s no hope of escape or changing her, or the world’s,  situation into something better.  He teaches her to settle for less, to not be so curious, and soon she’s mopping the floors and no longer treating the world around her as a horror.  As Nardole put it back in “The Lie of the Land”, convincing a person that things are just the way they are and have been for a long time is 90% of the game.

The Doctor gave her a message to hold on to.  And she learns from the TV feed that he is coming, the way that she had the cold comfort of his propaganda broadcasts in “The Lie of the Land” to know that at least he was alive.  She could have held on to that and kept him, or her mum, as an imaginary friend as she had with the munks, her confidante, someone who she could share the truth of this terrible new world with.  Even if she couldn’t escape now, she could be strong and hold on, and not put her trust in others — any more than she’d need to in order to get by day by day.  But the Master is actually, physically there, and she like most all of us she does crave companionship, and thinks he speaks the truth, so she decides to put her trust in him as time goes by.  It’s like when she sees a vision of the Doctor behind her as she’s about to follow the Master at one point.  She’s putting her faith and trust in what’s solid, what she can see with her eyes — rather than with her mind’s eye.  But turning away, as she does, from the imagination, the inner world, her own still small voice, can only lead to sorrow.

Because the Master dulled her in this way, she never tried to seek out the lifts on her own, to take the risks needed.  So while she waited for the Doctor all along, she wasn’t ready when the time came — watch therefore, for you know not the time or the hour — to go to him, she asked the Master for help finding those lifts, and…  🙁

And from there, she’s placed in a position where she is — seemingly — helpless to do anything of her own will anymore, but perhaps now that the Doctor has returned and can remind her of how strong she’s capable of being…

(Deposits $0.02)

[MissRori @replies]

Looking at the “Maximum Risk” making-of clip…I now feel slightly proud that I kinda figured out the Doctor’s mindset about the risk he was taking with Missy in advance.  I’d suspected that his journey over the season, from the moment he decided to make Bill a companion, was leading him to realize that he wasn’t going to get anywhere just stewing and guarding the Vault on Earth — that he couldn’t be his best self.  He had to be getting out, passing through, helping out, and learning…and sadly, that does involve taking risks and making mistakes and making amends and suffering consequences.  And from there he realized he had to really face his own monster at some point, get her out into the open too…if he’d just guarded that Vault things would have been safe, but there would never have been much hope for change.  What a complex, tragic tale, but one that shows both the Doctor’s weaknesses and strengths.  Something we could learn from…

[MissRori @replies]

@nick Interesting points.  But how could the Doctor have saved Clara just before she died?  It seems like splitting hairs — he saved her right before her last heartbeat.  Isn’t that the same thing?

Also, while he might be able to change the past for Bill, shouldn’t he be worried about all the other people the Mondasians are preparing to convert, along with the Cyber-armies, first?  (Hmm). I think he’ll need to fix Bill at the top of part 2, with love power and the sonic perhaps.  🙂  And what if this is a fixed point for him and the Masters?

or the more offbeat idea I had — don’t “fix” her by restoring her humanity, especially if the heart, etc. aren’t replacable, but help her become happy and strong in her new form.  Another form of mind over matter, and they can keep having adventures together.  She’s a superhero!  😀

[MissRori @replies]

@nick That’s an interesting point, and I can see a multi-Doctor story about saving a companion…except when Twelve tried to save Clara in “Hell Bent” he was treated as a baddie.  Why would it be okay to try and change Bill’s fate but not Clara’s?  If it’s just regeneration energy needed, Twelve can go solo.  If he needs other Doctors why didn’t he call on them in “Hell Bent”?

Perhaps he could ask Ohila for some elixir for Bill?  They never mended that burnt bridge, and if Missy’s redemption doesn’t take, Ohila could become his new friend in immortality…

[MissRori @replies]

@whisht  Now that is a bonkers theory and I like it!  😀

I do wonder about that woman looking like Heather — easy to miss if one wasn’t looking…but if any loose end needed tying up, it’s that…

[MissRori @replies]

@nick Could be.  But how much does the Doctor have to do to redeem himself?  He hasn’t been evil, like Missy.  Just making mistakes, having too much hope — trying to do noble things that perhaps were never meant to be, out of love and loneliness.  And when he tried to redeem himself by correcting Clara’s death, everybody was a jerk to him…

[MissRori @replies]

@lisa Yeah, he might have been a little faster.  But that guy was trigger-happy; he wouldn’t listen to reason and rushing might have been even worse.  And Bill probably shouldn’t have spoken up to begin with…

It will be interesting to see how Bill and Missy turn out next week.  At this point Nardole’s fate’s a bit of a wild card innit?  And I just feel there are so many loose ends to tie up, especially for Bill.

[MissRori @replies]

@nick  I think he was too shocked by her shooting to react fast enough to the nurses taking her away — and he didn’t know why that would be so bad yet, either.  (Also, he just isn’t big on guns.)  And you’re right about the dithering.  On the other hand, he had to deal with the Missy issue sometime, and I’m not sure how else he was going to find a way to test her properly…and given what was going on upstairs with the Master, he probably never would have made it up there in time even if he’d been quick as lightning to react.  The villain would have been ready to deal with that.  A lose lose all around.  🙁

But I don’t agree that he has 2 stories left to make a difference; he wouldn’t be stumbling out into the snow if he weren’t all alone or he fails to make things work next week.  I think he’ll have to get this tied off in “The Doctor Falls”.  So it’s back to thinking about what he can and can’t do.  Can he use the TARDIS to go back in time and keep her from being shot, or just plow it through the black hole to at least stop the cyber-conversion?  Why isn’t he just hugging and kissing her now, to get her to remember love and throw it off all the tech the way Craig could?  😉

Actually, as I suggested before, why not just accept her as she is?  That would be a triumph over evil in and of itself.  No matter what you do to my friends, I still love them and they love me!  Love conquers all…

[MissRori @replies]

@pedant 40 lashes with a wet noodle for me, sorry.

Yeah, I know the show traumatizing kids is a beloved tradition at this point (as seen in last year’s BBC Christmas advert!) but there’s no justification Bill has to “die” for real if everybody else gets wiggle room.  She’s suffered enough and so has this Doctor.  😉  Besides, this Doctor’s never had an “everybody lives” style miracle yet.  Maybe he gets one for her.

[MissRori @replies]

It’s just panic from folks who don’t follow news and spoilers as well as we, methinks.  Series 11 is on for next year with the as-yet-unannounced 13th Doctor.

[MissRori @replies]

Over at Tumblr where I have a Whovian poetry blog, I have been trying to comfort panicked fans of Twelve and Bill over what’s to come, bless their hearts.

Mostly the sorrow is over Bill’s “death”, which of course is not death at all.

But one of them was especially heartbroken over that “cold” opening, saying it’s horrible that Twelve will have to die alone and in anguish.  She doesn’t feel it’s a worthy sendoff for the Doctor or Capaldi, especially after all the criticism he’s received in the less reputable corners of the Internet and press.  Bless her heart, but I reminded her that “The Doctor Falls” leads into the Christmas special, and how this may not be the end of the story….in fact, I read that the scene in question was shot just 2 weeks ago.  This might be why it was left off of early preview copies of the episode (and why 12’s hair is so floofy).

This is going to be a tough week to wait on hope, isn’t it?  😉

[MissRori @replies]

Also, with regards to the Doctor and Bill, I’m tired of all these folks elsewhere saying that it’s all his fault!  There’s chatter elsewhere chewing him out for putting Bill in danger and all with the Missy test, but she chose to help him; she knew him to be a trustworthy man and he was honest with her.  It’s like how a lot of people seemed to blame the Doctor for what happened to Clara in “Face the Raven”.  In the end, she made a risky choice, and she ended up getting into one of those situations the Doctor couldn’t do much, if anything, to affect in the end.  So did the Doctor and Bill, unfortunately.

That said, as far as clarification goes, did the Doctor immediately bring down the lift once they had finished going back up with Bill, or did he waste time and breath explaining time dilation and stuff that he could have used to get there quicker?  Though, given the situation had years passing either way and the Master and company were ready anytime to give her the chop — it was just a matter of waiting until the Doctor was almost there — it was probably a lose-lose situation from the start.

Also — one review pointed out that Bill spent more time with Mr. Razor/Saxon than she did with the Doctor.  How sad is that?  If she had been more wary once she was in the hospital, might she have had a better chance of escaping her fate?

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