[MissRori @replies]

I liked this episode a lot if only for being a very well-handled adaptation of the comic storyline, but I didn’t love it the way the crowd around me at the Chicago TARDIS screening seemed to (same day). I agree @miapatrick that the streets just mending up was contrived! Also, a little of the increasingly slapstick comedy involving Donna and her family goes a long way for me personally – I’m more a Moffat person (and specifically 12’s era) than RTD though anyway. That said, the new characters were likable, especially Rose Noble, and given how much was being tackled in less than an hour, it was quite efficient in getting all the pieces in place. Looking forward to the next two specials at any rate, but they have a tough act to follow on Rachel Talalay’s direction here.

Chalk me up as one who wonders how well this will play to any Who-newbies who see this via Disney+ though. It will be interesting to see how the international reception of these specials pans out, and what that will mean for the fanbase going forward. A big influx of newbies? Lapsed fans coming back and sticking around for the 15 era?

[MissRori @replies]

I do feel at this point that there was something that increasingly slipped off the brainpan for me with Thirteen’s stories.  I didn’t feel as compelled to pay close attention or not do other stuff while they were on like I did with Twelve’s.  In particular, Chibnall and co. never seemed to find a defining personality or throughline for Thirteen as a character, compared to the strong arc that Twelve ended up with. @dentarthurdent calling her “dithery, superficial” is unfortunately one of the more accurate descriptions I’ve read.  Though the word that really came to me over time was ineffectual.  I liked her first season but it was not hard to agree with those who argued that she rarely seemed to have a real impact on her own adventures, which isn’t great for a protagonist unless they’re a character like Charlie Bucket who’s there to let us see an unusual new world through “ordinary” eyes (and, also, is surrounded by vibrant other characters).  The whole Timeless Child arc never came up with a thematic or dramatic reason for being, which is awkward when it upended so much of the established Who canon, and the companions post-Series 11 were largely a wash.  Especially after how tossed-off the spring special was, my hopes aren’t high for the finale…

[MissRori @replies]

Hello @catymcinulty !  I’m sorry I didn’t catch this sooner — DW news has been slow lately — but welcome to the group.  I am on the autism spectrum myself and I think you will be very comfortable here.   🙂

[MissRori @replies]

Regarding the Doctor’s memories of Clara, an interesting detail in the Twice Upon a Time novelization is that regarding the Doctor flashing to his various companions at the end of The Doctor Falls during his near regeneration, he briefly recognized Clara (i.e. the process temporarily bypassed the block) but intentionally put that out of his mind, so to speak, because he remembered the block’s purpose.

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@spacely Well all that still could happen in next year’s specials.  😉

@blenkinsopthebrave Maybe the Flux got them too?  😀

[MissRori @replies]

@spacely, Yes, most of the universe is gone and not restored — as far as can be told from the text.  Many pro reviewers and plenty of folks on the Tweetosphere are pretty shocked and dismayed that the Doctor and her friends apparently don’t care about this (or all the species she killed on the way!)

A theory going round is that Swarm and Azure’s time-rewind abilities already rewound time BEFORE they were destroyed, as part of that torture-the-Doc thing, but that’s only an assumption.  (Keep in mind that if they did that, everybody should be back, including Tecteun.)  It’s a lapse on the creatives’ part not to make this clear.

Man, poor Twelve got all that guff about saving Clara six years ago and now this…

[MissRori @replies]

Specifically, perhaps the watch can be used to restore the universe from the Flux’s damage, rather than restore the Doctor’s memories (which don’t have much meaning, or positive meaning, for her anyway).  And that could take care of Gallifrey and the Time Lords!

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I dunno.  I keep having the sense that most of what has happened in this miniseries isn’t going to matter after next week’s finale, given how increasingly messy it’s become and how thin the new characters are.  I’ve had a hard time caring about what’s going on with that in mind. I am surprised nobody’s theorizing that the ending will involve the restoration of Gallifrey, although that would be more appropriate for next year’s specials anyway.

All the guff the Doctor gets over taking and changing people is weird.  We humans do that all the time with each other, it just usually doesn’t involve time travel and stuff.  If people like those who chide the Doctor had their way nobody would make friends at all, there would be no need for prisons, etc.  (I think I may be overthinking things 😀 )

[MissRori @replies]

Personally, for all the chatter about the cliffhanger, I think the Doctor’s in a pretty good place at this point.

@blenkinsopthebrave, I don’t know about Bel and Vinder saving everything.  Hasn’t a major complaint about this era been that Thirteen’s been a bit on the ineffectual side?  She has to prove herself as A Hero at some point, and the scope of this story is too big for it to be a small victory for Good the way Twelve went out.

[MissRori @replies]

I’m getting increasingly frustrated by all the Stuff being tossed about in this story arc.  While I didn’t find this episode  especially confusing, I am having a hard time working up the energy to care about anything since we’re not really getting to know any of these new characters (except maybe Vinder) and their relationships beyond basic/generic traits.  And all the timey-wimey jumping in the first half especially just felt irrelevant, like Chibnall had about 15 minutes worth of plot but had to pad things to 55 minutes.

In the most recent season of Mystery Science Theater 3000, one movie they poked fun at was The Day Time Ended, a low-budget end of the 1970s production about a family in Arizona whose house is arbitrarily in the middle of a conjunction of supernovas, whereupon all sorts of random alien activity begins to bedevil them.  In one of the interstitial sketches, the robot Tom Servo plays a Music Man-type of huckster advising the movie’s screenwriters not to have a clear 3-act structure or anything like that, but just fill the movie with “concepts!” It was hard not to think of that here!

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I think it’s nice that they finally confirmed an airdate, but at the same time it’s sad to see how the nerdy entertainment crowd out there has hardly reacted to the news (and most of the reaction has been dismissive).  DW just doesn’t seem to mean that much anymore in a world of Mandalorians and Stranger Things.  And about halfway through this run is when The Mandalorian‘s third season launches, so DW doesn’t have much time to hook the press once it starts airing.  But we’ll see…

(Also, I thought we were getting 8 episodes followed by 3 specials?  The press articles can’t seem to decide if it’s 6 or 8….)

[MissRori @replies]

Ugh, I hate not being able to get to sleep but I’ll keep that advice in mind.  🙂  I’m in my early 40s now but still live with my parents.  (I pay rent!)  They’ve never had a problem getting me around; the anxiety issues I had behind the wheel as a teen led us to mutually decide that maybe driving wasn’t for me.  (I am on the autism spectrum – diagnosed in 1994 – and while I can handle a lot, I still have anxiety issues when stress gets big.  Having other people to live with helps, though I spend most of my time alone.)  But we’re all not as young as we used to be and public transport isn’t a thing in my town so we’ve been thinking about at least getting my license.  It does seem the local driving schools are opening up again, so maybe next spring – fall and winter are tentatively occupied with some family projects for now.  Thanks for your encouragement 🙂

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I think the most depressing thing about the pandemic is that “Groundhog Day” feeling of the light at the end of the tunnel never arriving — that we were looking to move past Covid into a bearable, “background” situation like other illnesses we have vaccines and treatments for, but thanks largely to vaccine hesitancy that’s not happening.  Saying “it gets better” (and I hear that a lot in my work/life circle) can feel hollow if it never does, and thinking of how others have it worse can just make everything seem intractable, especially if you have a one-track mind like mine is.   Of course that’s my fault more than anybody’s.  😀  The other advice I get (take up a new hobby, night school, etc.; I’d really like to finally learn to drive) is good but tricky because I work a night shift on a schedule that has odd days and I sleep during the day.  My local library won’t even keep full hours right now; they close ridiculously early.  Also the people who get me around are usually busy with my sister’s kids when I’m free.

[MissRori @replies]

@dentarthurdent No, your suggestions aren’t irrelevant.  I know I have a lot to be grateful for, and that I can keep my head above water with my job isn’t nothing.  The last few years have felt unusually rough, though, partially because most of my interactions with the outside world are via the Internet and it’s clear how much rougher a lot of other people have it — especially when I don’t have a lot of influence on what’s happening, or what’s going to happen down the line.  Frankly I appreciate the opportunity to vent to others, which I can’t do with the people I live with. 🙂

[MissRori @replies]

Hey you guys!

I have the misfortune of living in the U.S. and working an “essential” job, so the past month has been pretty demoralizing for me.  After all me and my family have been through — going through the illness, then my taking personal leave to better recover (which, at least I had that), getting our jabs as soon as we could, still wearing masks, etc. — we do have some travel plans for the back third of the year, the first I’ve had since the pandemic started.  I’m really looking forward to them, which makes it all the more frustrating that things are dragging on the way they are and nothing seems to be moving the needle to get more people jabbed.  The most I’ve been able to do besides work-and-home is visit with my out-of-town boyfriend twice.

How can I keep a positive attitude and look forward to my future when all the news is out to bring me down?  Any advice would be welcome.

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@dentarthurdent Cornell doesn’t mention anything about Clara’s further exploits; the appearance of her avatar is regarded from Twelve’s perspective, but IIRC he’s pretty sure she had her fair share of adventures before she died (if she didn’t figure out a way to outsmart the Raven altogether!).   The TUAT novelization has a lot of extra perspective about various characters, including more detail regarding why Twelve really didn’t want to regenerate, and why he ultimately does.  Some of it brings Cornell’s Human Nature to mind.

[MissRori @replies]

@dentarthurdent wrote:

By the way, I don’t see Testimony (in Twice Upon a Time, having acquired all Bill’s memories) as invalidating this. Any more than their possession of Clara’s memories – which they restored to the Doctor – invalidates Clara’s saga with Me in their Tardis, heading back to Gallifrey by the scenic route. In either case, Testimony could have extracted their memories, either milliseconds before they were intercepted by the Time Lords and Heather respectively, or after, when the Time Lords finally returned Clara and the Bill-Heather hybrid finally expired of some unknown cause.

According to the Paul Cornell novelization of “Twice Upon a Time”, Bill and Heather eventually returned to Earth to live as humans.  (Money was no object thanks to their powers, they had a nice house by the sea, bunch of cats, etc.) Bill ultimately decided she’d lived a full life and died of old age, while Heather became a Pilot again with her blessing. This was when the Testimony stepped in to take Bill’s memories.  The Glass Avatar we see of her in TUAT is actually “edited” to not remember anything of Bill’s life post-revival because the Testimony wanted to assess whether the Doctor was going to bring harm to it or not, and the best way to do that was to present Bill as she was when they parted.

Incidentally, the novelization also clarifies that Testimony only collects human memories.  Nardole (being a cyborg) was a clerical error — but he managed to guilt it into letting him stay!  (He also lived several centuries prior to that, as he and the solar farmers were able to defeat progressive Cyberman waves until they were just Cybermat infestations in springtime.  He was also married multiple times!)

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@nerys It could have been much worse for us.  I’m still struggling with a cough, and it will probably be a long time before I go on vacation or see my boyfriend again the way things are going, but at least I can afford to take personal time off work.  Things can change so quickly these days, but for now I have a comfortable home to live in, food and water, and ways to keep myself occupied.

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It didn’t need to be so long.  Given how chunks of it recycled material from “Resolution of…” (as well as, as pointed out elsewhere, other “Humans can make this Dalek thing work!” stories), I wonder if the endless plot complications were an attempt to disguise a lack of new ideas for a Dalek story.  I miss the snappier conversations and quiet moments of Twelve’s episodes; a lot of the equivalents here are more like characters lecturing each other, and more telling than showing.  The Doctor being tossed in the clink came off as a throwaway to justify getting Ryan and Graham out of the travelling business more than anything, which was very disappointing, as was her apparently brushing off the whole destruction of Gallifrey thing and, for some reason, choosing to brood over the issue of her identity instead when that was already resolved in “The Timeless Children”.  And surely the Doctor could have called up some other cavalry instead of phoning up the extra-murdery Daleks?

And why are they adding a new companion already?  I thought Series 13 was gonna be Yaz’s time to shine!  On the whole, not a promising precursor to the season…

[MissRori @replies]

Hey you guys! 🙂

It’s been a long month-and-a-half in some ways.  For those who don’t know, I’m an essential worker.  Mid-November I slowly came down with what my family and I initially thought/hoped was a common cold or winter dryness allergies, which I’ve worked through before, but after 2 days off from work saw the symptoms get much worse instead of better I told the boss how things were going and he sent me off to be tested.  It was C-19 and I was off the next week-and-a-half, and my parents (whom I live with) tested positive too.  We all had mild cases, but Dad also had a pulmonary embolism in the aftermath, so I’m now taking personal time off until March to help take care of them (though I do feel bad for not being there for my co-workers).

This does mean I was able to spend Christmas at home for a change, but of course we couldn’t do a ton of stuff except greet my sister’s family (who lives nearby; we regularly take care of her kids) and my two brothers (whom I tried to wear a mask around as much as possible, socially distance, etc. even though I’ve got antibodies now).  It was still nice though, but more than ever I wish things would get back to some kind of new normal.  It’s been a lonely year without my boyfriend (lives upstate), conventions to visit after February, or local festivals, etc.  Shopping and work are about the only things getting me out of the house anymore, and the latter is off the table for a while.

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@winston We recently moved into a new house and between that and my weird working hours (I work a night shift and sleep in the afternoons) there aren’t a lot of opportunities to try baking and stuff as yet.  I only go shopping about every other week now, the public library won’t open for no good reason, there’s no garden to work with, and I can’t work on most of the hobbies I do enjoy much less try new ones.   And since I don’t share my folks’ conservative politics, trying to hash my feelings out in conversation is doomed to end in tears.  At this point I’ll probably be okay if the current president is re-elected, because it’ll just be easier to deal with my family and stuff that way.  It often feels like everybody in this country can do nothing but complain complain complain about every little thing instead of pulling together, accept that life isn’t fair, and let bygones be bygones.  🙁  I’m worrying that if this pandemic ever does end, there won’t be much left worth living for anyway.  No live theater to enjoy, nowhere to have a relaxing vacation in, etc.

[MissRori @replies]

Hello out there.  @janetteb I hope you’re doing well down in Oz, or at least better than things are up here in the United States.  Not that that would be hard to do!  It’s been a lot to stand up here of late, I’m pretty sure don’t need to tell you all why.  On a personal level I’m okay, but sometimes life just seems like a circle of go to work (I’m one of those essential workers), go home, sleep, repeat.  No conventions to go to for discussing DW or anything like that, a boyfriend I haven’t seen in months due to our long-distance relationship, etc.  It’s not easy to cope, especially in a conservative household.  Any advice would be welcome; I’ve caught up with a lot of old movies but a lack of positive news on anything (even entertainment fluff) is draining, and virtual relationships only go so far…

[MissRori @replies]

@dalekbuster523 Well, it’s possible “Revolution of the Daleks” won’t be an Earth-set episode in the first place, or at least not set on present-day Earth, so the pandemic would be a moot point and no alterations will be needed.

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Also, the Doctor could explain that since COVID-19, etc. were humanity’s problems alone, they cannot take charge of the situation without being a sort of imperialist imposing their own morality on it.  Kind of like Twelve deciding not to use a Cyber-army to save the universe, and also an explanation for why they didn’t do anything about slavery, the rise of the U.S.S.R., the Holocaust, the Cultural Revolution, etc.  Or maybe the TARDIS knows they don’t need to go help out with those (it only takes them where they need to go, according to “The Doctor’s Wife”).

[MissRori @replies]

@janetteb  I have been thinking of “Turn Left” too… 🙁  And of course, in the week since you wrote that post things have only been getting worse with the pandemic in the U.S. and to a lesser extent the U.K. as lockdown measures are being eased — to say nothing of the anti-police brutality movements in the U.S. and solidarity protests elsewhere that would have to be addressed with Yaz, if not the whole police box concept (especially after how the Doctor’s “real” backstory was presented in this and the previous episode).

Series 13 was supposed to start filming in September, but at this point the Beeb itself is pretty much saying that’s a no go so soon.

https://www.radiotimes.com/news/tv/2020-06-17/doctor-who-social-distancing-guidelines/

On the other hand, Jurassic World: Dominion is set to restart filming in the U.K. next week.  If a gigantic Hollywood production can figure out a way to start over — then again, there’s actual money behind that.

Maybe they could do a “gap” season that’s just Thirteen alone so there’s fewer group scenes?  That could be a way of working through the Gallifrey situation before turning attention back to Earth.

Part 5 of Torchwood: Children of Earth has a character theorize that the Doctor doesn’t put their hand in with the 456 situation because they’re ashamed of humanity at times like those.  Maybe they’re not too proud of it right now?  Or it’s actually a fixed point in time they cannot change — that would be the easiest storytelling solution, while still allowing for interpersonal drama.

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@thane16 If you want a bright yellow door I say go for it!  🙂

Actually I will be moving (with my parents) into a newer house across town this summer, if all goes as planned in that regard.  I suppose that’s something to look ahead to.  Since I am generally a homebody anyway it’s hard to find a break from the new normal when I’m not at work.  It makes it that much more frustrating to see other people complaining about protective measures.  Anyhoo, thanks for all the support here 🙂

[MissRori @replies]

Hello.  Been a while…

I live in the U.S. as you might already know from previous posts.  I’m an essential worker too, so at least I get out of the house often.  But these have been frustrating times for me, and I don’t have many people to talk with them about.  I live with my parents, but they’re Trump supporters, so trying to get out my frustrations with anti-lockdown/social distancing protests and the like won’t end well.  And it’s even made me angrier about how Series 12 ended, because who knows when we’ll get Series 13 much less if it will make the bummer wrapup worth it?

Convention season is shot, the few new movies and TV shows I was looking forward to are perhaps years away, the November election will be miserable, and the daily news remains grim.  What should I do right now to have something to look forward to?  Any advice?

[MissRori @replies]

I’m wondering if there’s any news on the status of Series 13 at this point.  Series 12 had such a bummer ending and left the Doctor in a sad place for her character arc, and I doubt that “Revolution of the Daleks” is going to do all the heavy lifting needed to undo it (i.e., restore Gallifrey, etc.).  And I’m also seriously wondering if Chibnall and co. are going to rethink everything they planned for her arc given the current pandemic, which I would imagine will have to be acknowledged in-universe, and which makes her current Special One status rather awkward at a time when, even more than usual, we’re seeing Not Special People being kicked to the curb worldwide by people who think they’re Special Ones and mass deaths being shrugged off in favor of the economy.  Can anybody help me out here?

[MissRori @replies]

Hello again.  I’ve been thinking, and I know this is a dangerous thing…. 😉

When we last convened to discuss this episode, and what it might mean for the next season’s arcs, the real world was…a different place.  And I’m thinking that Series 13, whenever it arrives, is going to have a bigger challenge than we previously thought in making the revelations of this episode meaningful.

See, I can’t see this show not acknowledging the COVID-19 pandemic, and what it’s done to societies all over the world, in some way once it gets to scripting and filming again.  Looking at one of my earlier posts on this episode, I noted that the idea of every person being important is kind of upended both by, in-universe, the Doctor being the Timeless Child and, in the real world, the horrifying willingness of many people to put money above common humanity.  In my country (the U.S.) there’s a growing right-wing driven movement to end social distancing/lockdown measures even though they’re clearly working because folks want “the economy” to reopen.  What would Twelve think? (see: “Thin Ice”)  Humanity is in an uglier place than usual right now, and I’m thinking — unless the companions are written out — the show’s going to have to acknowledge the effects of this on the Earth characters and setting.

Where does this Doctor and her character arc fit into this?  Where can it fit right now?  Any thoughts?

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@jimthefish wrote

But something seems to be happening to fandom. At one end, you have the repellent bigotry of the NMDs but at the other the fans of 13 and Chibs have become somewhat fundamentalist, perhaps understandably fearing that acknowledging any issues will be giving ammunition to the NMDs. The loser seems to be anyone who wants to engage in any critical analysis of the show.

Yes — it’s hard to find a fandom where this sort of conflict is not an issue.

Your thoughts seem to gibe with mine in that I don’t understand the reason this change to the canon has happened now. It didn’t really affect the outcome of the episode, and we’re going straight to a Dalek storyline for Christmas/New Year’s so it’s hard to imagine how it will be dealt with there. The War Doctor reveal (back when he was just “the other Doctor”) led right into “Day of the Doctor”, where it was central to the plot. And I don’t have a firm enough idea of where Thirteen’s character development is going to theorize what she will do with this information down the line. Heck, she’s just left Gallifrey twisting in the wind; aren’t they going to get back to that? Maybe all this should have been saved for her grand finale storyline.

Oh, and I thought I was the only one reminded of Supremacy of the Cybermen with the Cyber-Lords concept. I was so frustrated by that story because it quickly became clear it wasn’t going to bring the Doctors together or really confront the fallout of “Hell Bent” on the Gallifreyan characters. When the delays between parts got out of hand, I ended up only reading the first, second, and final issues.

[MissRori @replies]

@badwolfalice I’m with you in that I’m less concerned with the canon being changed and more concerned with why it’s been changed, especially so drastically. The Doctor seems to accept all these revelations quickly enough and good for her for seeing it as a glass-half-full situation. But especially with the ending plunging her in what may or may not be a completely unrelated adventure (she appears to be in the clink for something a past self did — but if it involves the Daleks, shouldn’t the Judoon be glad they interfered?), and how this past season never really had her dealing with revelations aside from becoming tetchier with the fam, one wonders if this will have any lasting impact on her character or the mythos. Consider the back half of Twelve’s story. Losing Clara allowed Twelve to come to terms with loss and finally be the man River Song needed…his love for River helped him accept the responsibility of tending to Missy in the Vault…his friendship with Bill led him to actually dealing with Missy more directly and finally coming to acceptance and understanding of himself…and meeting the First Doctor allowed him to come to terms with his regeneration and inspire his past selves (the ones he remembered anyway) in the bargain. He had a real character arc developing through every big trauma he went through.

Oh great, now I’m wondering why the Testimony doesn’t know about the other Doctors from all the humans it’s uploaded over the eons…

Anyway, how does Thirteen grow from this? How does she apply these revelations to a greater good? Yes, it gets her out of the Matrix, and gets a big speech about being stronger for the experience, and is reminded that she has her companions looking out for her even if their relationship is a little strained…but none of that helps her stop the Master and the Cyber-Lords! That ends up being handled by another character so the Doctor won’t have as much blood on her hands — she doesn’t even fight the guy really. And she doesn’t use what she has to restore Gallifrey after that either, which would be the natural alternative. She did it before, calling upon previous lives — what if all of them had come together at once?

Now, maybe the point of “Revolution of the Daleks” will be Thirteen applying all this to another situation, especially if it turns out the cold case is one Ruth or another unknown Doctor was responsible for. But if that story is also going to involve the current companion set (none of whom have had a real character arc since Ryan and Graham resolved the issue of losing Grace, despite some feints at them since then), as opposed to sidelining them for one story, I kind of doubt it. For that matter, what does the Doctor’s ongoing story say about their individual journeys? I don’t mind it continuing into Series 13, but I don’t see any clues as to what direction it will go in — unless saving Gallifrey again is the big arc this time. Which it could be.

Edit: Alternatively it could be further dealing with the Master’s newfound jealousy of the Doctor, but I’m not sure how that can be a growth experience for her. For better or worse, she is more special than he is, or anyone else in the universe, due to her nature. She is on the top of the mountain alone in the end. The companions couldn’t fully grasp what she’s experienced before, and this revelation only makes it harder to do so, or for her to be brought down to Earth as it were. Who are they to pick on her?

I know — in 900 years Eleven hadn’t met anyone who wasn’t important — but in reality, there are plenty of people who are not important, or at least not important enough. That’s why we have forever wars, and refugees freezing and starving to death because people with homes and countries and food don’t want to give up a little comfort, and concentration camps for the “different”, and…

If this is a theme of the next season — that every being is important in a cosmic way — it could be a powerful, important one beyond its effect on the fictional narrative. But can Chibnall and co. pull something that ambitious off?

[MissRori @replies]

@jimthefish Can you, I, or anybody really say that anything the Doctor does is un-Doctorly anymore? We have no idea what all those other Doctors have been up to all those years, working above the Time Lord law to boot! For all we know some of them really did eat babies, and not the jelly kind!

A common theory for the prison the Doc is trapped in at the end is that it’s Shada. How cool will it be if “Revolution of the Daleks” turns out to be a Douglas Adams-style romp?

[MissRori @replies]

Ha! Everybody said the Doctor didn’t deserve to have Clara brought back from the dead in “Hell Bent” and now it turns out they’re the most important person who ever existed! Justice for Twelve!

I think will be interesting to see where “Revolution of the Daleks” goes from here. We need a light comedy episode for a breather after all this, before we get into restoring Gallifrey and all that (because saving that for the 60th would be silly and a retread of the 50th), and I think it would be neat to see the Daleks used in one. The show needs to get over its case of the glums. 🙂

[MissRori @replies]

Also — who wants to place bets that we get an “everybody lives” finale?  Think of it: The Cybermen become good as part of their ascension, while humanity gets a fresh start somewhere else.  Gallifrey and its people gets restored, while the Master gets away as per usual.  The Doctor and the fam can keep travelling hopefully on their own terms now that the Doctor knows and can share her past again.  It would be lovely, and send a good message.  😉

[MissRori @replies]

It’s been pointed out elsewhere that Ko Sharmus and old Brendan are played by the same actor, which means Brendan probably cannot be Ashad, the Doctor, or the Master.  But they still could be the Timeless Child, and will thus help the Doctor in the next episode.  They seem nice enough.  🙂

[MissRori @replies]

Given that next week’s episode is called “The Timeless Children” and there was all that fluff with Brendan in last night’s episode, plus Gallifrey and the Master, I’m thinking that arc’s going to be resolved next week.  If anything’s going to be held over at this point, it will be the Fugitive Doctor, perhaps for Christmas/New Year’s.

[MissRori @replies]

I’m surprised that more people aren’t going with the theory that Brendan is one of the Doctors rather than the Lone Cyberman.  Unless they and the Timeless Child are all one and the same?  That would certainly shake up the franchise.

Basically, Brendan is the first of many many Doctors (the name and box come later) and at this point the other Time Lords would wipe their memory before each regeneration, perhaps at the behest of the Timeless Child. Ruth is one of the later ones who undergoes this.  But starting with the First Doctor they say nuts to that and start just living out on their own and retaining memories.  Other Time Lords like the Master follow suit.

I think the biggest clue we have to where this finale will go is — what is the season’s theme beyond secrets coming out?  The poor Doctor had finally been able to move past her past as it were in becoming 13, in letting it go, and was enjoying the chance to just live a life in the moment, more like humans do.  She and her fam were happy.  But now the past has butted in and she doesn’t even know what that is anymore.  So even though they ask she doesn’t want to put her companions through the drama, but they are curious anyway even though they haven’t shared a lot about their pasts or even presents with her either.  And she’s cracking under the stress.

But the truth can set her free and allow them — those who make it anyway — to be happier for it, on even terms.  That’s what this is, isn’t it?  The truth will fix the Cyber-dilemma, save Gallifrey, etc.  I mean, there has to be a point to everyone being miserable this season.  Otherwise the story isn’t worth telling.

Yeah, Chibnall is not going to stick the landing on this.

[MissRori @replies]

@lisa I’m thinking that the Time Lords are the ones making time wacky, which is why we’re seeing the Cybermen first, and as you note, we saw the Master running around before any of them.  Or maybe this Timeless Child is the real culprit behind it all.

[MissRori @replies]

@lisa The problem with one or more of the companions being Cyber-converted is that we just had that with Bill Potts, and with two of the companions being minorities like she and Danny Pink were, there are some ugly optics by constantly turning those characters into Cybermen at this point.  (There are also “stuffed in the fridge” issues raised if it’s Yaz.)  The best mode of handling this I can think of is that they might get Cyber-converted, but the Doctor gets a chance to undo it this time.  Maybe overloads their circuits with emotions or something.  Still not sure why Twelve didn’t do that with Bill, just take her back to the TARDIS and get her to a reputable sawbones…

[MissRori @replies]

I think it’s important to remember here is that this season has had a bad case of the glums; aside from the Tesla episode, it’s been pretty downbeat.  So to keep people wanting to follow things into next year the season finale has to end on a hopeful note of some kind — the way all the Capaldi season finales did.  We get a rough episode tonight, and then next week things are looking up with whatever is revealed, be it splintered Doctors (remember Clara?  It could happen to the Doctor) or alternate universes or maybe it all being some kind of dream crab situation.  It’s all about travelling hopefully after all. 😉

[MissRori @replies]

@ollie14 (sorry for the late reply) The Cyberium is basically a record of the Cybermen’s history.  Apparently because the future Cyberman empire was close to the losing end of the war, it wanted to use the Cyberium to figure out a situation/place in the past to time travel to and change the outcome so that humanity would end up on the losing end instead.  The Alliance decided to send it back in time, possibly specifically to the Doctor, so it would not end up in their hands.  The Doctor had to give it up, though, so now she and the TARDIS fam have to go to the future to save humanity from whatever changes have been made to it by the Lone Cyberman’s foreknowledge.

(It’s basically the sports record book from Back to the Future Part II in other words.)

[MissRori @replies]

@psymon My theory — given what the titles of the next two episodes are, and especially with word getting out (i.e. filming dates) that we probably won’t see Series 13 until well over a year from now — has it that most of this season’s plot points will be wrapped up in the next two episodes, with anything left being held over for the holiday special, as you put it (it would be an interesting way of resolving the Fugitive Doctor issue to do it in a Christmas show!).  I’m thinking that the Cyberwar stuff will turn out to be the means of resolving the Timeless Child/Destruction of Gallifrey stuff and vice versa — given Gallifrey was at the end of the universe in “Hell Bent” — if only because there’s already been a “frontline conflict” Cyberman story with “Nightmare in Silver”.

Also, about the Doctor not following Captain Jack’s “order” — who’s to say he and his fellows had the right idea in the first place?  We don’t even know what this resistance pocket is exactly, and he’s been involved in shady business before.  In the meantime I do agree that the Doctor absorbing the Cyberium will probably pay off.

I think the Doctor would have gone into further detail about what would be changed in history had Percy died younger if it weren’t major spoilers for the other historical characters: Most obviously (and it’s been pointed out elsewhere) his dying would have put a serious roadblock to Mary actually writing her book and pretty much inventing science fiction as a genre.  Frankenstein sent out a lot of ripples into literature, science, philosophy, cinema, general pop culture, etc.; who knows how many lives would or wouldn’t exist, or exist in the way they did, had it not been written.  I’m surprised the companions didn’t figure that out for themselves and apologize to the Doctor for her crisis thinking back in the blue box!  That said, I’m glad they’re willing to help her out all the same and head to the uncertain future.

…It’s easy to wail and gnash your teeth about how much easier things would be, damage that would have not happened, etc. if certain things had gone differently in the past.  But in the end, it can’t be changed — even if we were capable of doing so — and even if it could be changed, nothing says it would necessarily be better.  All we can do is deal with the consequences, even if we weren’t responsible for them.  All we can do is, as Frozen II puts it, “The Next Right Thing”, and that’s what the Doctor’s doing now.

[MissRori @replies]

Just saw this article — apparently, the Doctor’s behavior at the end of this episode got enough criticism that the Beeb had to put out a statement explaining it.  Twelve never had it this bad!

https://io9.gizmodo.com/the-bbc-responds-to-backlash-over-doctor-whos-approach-1841634018

[MissRori @replies]

This one came off to me as half filler episode with regards to the Immortals’ plot, half oh-no-we-forgot-the-companions-have-lives catching up episode (with, as @davros notes, a bit of PSA thrown in).  The bit with the Timeless Child seemed thrown in as a bone for anybody actually concerned about this season’s story arc, given that the Doctor and TARDIS fam can’t seem to care much.  Unless next week’s episode turns out to be a “Face the Raven”-esque prelude to the season finale episodes…

[MissRori @replies]

In the meantime, with all the talk going on about how dark this season’s been going for Thirteen…Blogtor Who was commenting that perhaps whatever she learns in this year’s finale will “break her” and she’ll go all Time Lord Victorious and stuff.  Personally, I think it would be a lot more interesting to see her hold up and Be Kind whatever she learns, don’t you think?  😉

[MissRori @replies]

Also (as someone asked over at io9, I think) if Thirteen can “contact” with Gaz, why didn’t she try that with Ruth!Doctor to figure out where each one falls in the timeline?  Seems like that would be worth a try…

Other theories I’ve seen as to what’s going on with the timelines that I don’t think have been mentioned above are that the situation has something to do with the MetaCrisis Doctor and/or Pete’s World, or that Ruth!Doctor is actually an incarnation of the Master.  :p  Actually, the former would explain why so many of the callbacks to past events and characters are ones strongly associated with the Tenth Doctor (Captain Jack, Judoon, the Master, mind wipes, etc.).

I have some miscellaneous blue-sky ideas:

• Thirteen and the fam have been/still are in an alternate timeline/universe since some as-yet-undisclosed point.
• Alternatively, it’s a constructed world ala “Extremis” or “Last Christmas”.  😉

[MissRori @replies]

This was definitely an improvement over “Orphan 55” and it was nice to finally have an episode this season not end on a bummer note even with the bittersweet aspects.  But I agree with @jimthefish that Thirteen’s characterization is getting increasingly muddled in what I’ve come to assume are attempts to present her as more than an eternal optimist.  I was really wondering how they’d wrap things up with Tesla and Edison’s memories after what happened in “Spyfall”, and it was odd that she just let ’em go.  And with only six episodes left, the fact that they’re not going anywhere with the Timeless Child arc as yet makes me worry about a rushed wrap-up to that arc and wherever it is they’re taking Thirteen and her fam’s dynamics this year.

[MissRori @replies]

@phaseshift There’s absolutely a dysfunctional families thing going on this season.  The Master destroying Gallifrey is another manifestation of it, the fabled “sins of the fathers” thing.  And I think the Doctor’s fam will end up strained too over the course of the season, but come back together by the end.

@bluesqueakpip I’m in sort of that powerless position myself when it comes to affecting change; since my family would not support me stumping for the rights of others, I’m feeling rather sidelined and increasingly frustrated with being preached to.  I’m also not sure how to couch my concerns about, say, immigrants at my country’s southern border to someone like my mom who wants her grandkids to grow up in a safe country.  She doesn’t trust sources beyond Fox News and the like, so I can’t use statistics and data.  @juniperfish, I’ve actually looked at that article you linked before, and I like its ideas, but my mom is quick to anger.  If I were to call out her morals and point out where she’s falling down on them, it could get extremely ugly — and I don’t take being yelled at well.  Which would only make her angrier if I were to cry.  And I’ve listened to her side of things many times, and there’s just so much hate there.  How much am I expected to put up with?  It’s come to the point that, to keep the peace, I just don’t talk to her about much anymore.

[MissRori @replies]

(eeeek)  I can’t edit my previous post, but I meant to say that I didn’t vote for the current POTUS!  My whole dilemma sounds ridiculous without that correction 😀

[MissRori @replies]

@jimthefish I think one reason 13’s been running into seemingly more ethical issues than the later seasons of 12’s run is likely due in part to a different writer, but also, the world’s been changing quite a bit since 12’s debut run.  “Kerblam!” had a disappointing ending, but when the systems of big tech and capitalism are so vital in much of the world to basic — if flawed — functioning, dismantling it may be something too big for even the Doctor to do; it would take a village to make that work.  It’s why she doesn’t just get rid of all the smartphones and social media at the end of “Spyfall” either, despite the problems they pose.  (The ending of “Orphan 55” does pretty pointedly go with the masses of humanity idea as well with the crisis posed there.)

Basically, a hopeful, humanist, family-oriented show like Doctor Who is running into some pains at the moment dealing with the cruelties of the real world it’s reflecting, metaphorically or more obviously.  This is a show where “Burn it all down!”  and “Eat the rich!” are not supposed be the solutions to problems, but for an increasing amount of well-meaning and not-so-well-meaning people in our world, they seem to be the only ones left.  Basically, our world is one that believes it needs a Warrior, not a Doctor.

Perhaps that’s what Series 12 is building up to, the Doctor figuring out how to be the best version of herself she can be (again) to solve the problem the ending of “Skyfall” poses to her, which can work as a metaphor for how us humans can be Doctors and save the world with kindness rather than “strength”.  And perhaps she has to make mistakes on the way there?

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