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@Shazzbot Thanks for that! Less nagging tamptation that way (well- there are still other ways.. X_x). How did you end up there if you are allergic to them? 😉 In fact – how come you are in here? =D  [just joking – please don’t be offended ^^”]

@craig That is and interesting job. Did they get paid for it?

 

[I am an emoticon-addict xD~ Please tell me if you find it annoying ]

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I agree, “the butler did it” is a very common line. A also think everybody got it, clam down @Shazzbot , everything is fine.

@all As much as I am astonished such a major FAIL did happen in the first place- I really like the way the BBC handles it. (And how fast they did react to it) Moffat talking to dedicated Whovians is a nice move. (I am studying Communication and Media Management 😉 and as such particularly interested) That is some very good communication with fans.

Since the DW community is interested in details and finding clues and also sticks together  there should be a huge wall of silence out of respect (hope trolls dont catch up on this – making a sport out of it. Better reading no comments on Youtube…)

The real battle is the temptation as mentioned by others. Within your grasp, if you want to… GAH! Torture!

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@lula What a bomb! MUST RESIST…. It’s going to be a long week.

The question standing is how could they have let that happen?

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@PhileasF Thanks for so many great ideas! And the time that took you to break it down =) There is much room for them even with the trailer. I cant really say much as I have been partly spoilt but I would love some of the themes you outlined in the actual episode.

” It could be misdirection, and no-one’s really been spoiled. If it’s only a character saying what’s happening, it could be a clip from early in the episode, when they think they’ve worked it out but they’re wrong).”

As for the trailer you just dont see someone talk, you see (some) action 😉 Avoid it if you are strong enough for it 😉
[If they did give nothing essential away that would be flabbergasting in TnotD]

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Discussing the prequel!

 

 

Beware!

 

 

Keep out if you want to.

 

So Clara is definitily in love with the Doctor, yeah? *annoyed*

So she is perfect for him, huh? *even more annoyed* Too perfect? WHT is that supposed to mean.

He looks sad now he knows. Like he would look at Donna.

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@blenkinsopthebrave maybe by reading our reactions you got your hopes up, expecting too much and got disappointed because of that

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Where was the limitation of regenerations mentioned? I’d like a peek.

 

If what I said above it true – why did the TARDIS not like her? Because she stepped into time? Why didnt she choose the Doctor as an Interface? Is the only constant thing for Clara Clara?

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Do

Not

Even

Look

No return after this point.

I do not think that is what the trailer revealed. at 0:23 You can clearly see that they are inside the TARDIS. A TARDIS that is aged. Has not been used for months if not years. A TARDIS of a different timeline maybe. One where the Doctor came alone to the Fields of Tranzalore. Rose looked into the Tardis and became kind of a God (for a short time) Clara steped into the heart of time, making her impossible and allowing the TARDIS to “produce” her whenever needed. She makes a sacrifice to keep the doctor alive. (Has she seen a world without the doctor? Why would she? Is she in love as said in he said she said?) In he said she said the Doctor quotes “I will always know what she means” – Danger for his life. He knows she will only be there if he would have died otherwise. He might even have seen her in the liberary if it were not for River?

Another important point. The way River adresses Clara. Like old friends. Like she talked to the Doctor in the liberary? Very soft. And as if she knew Clara would not listen. She (Clara) looked so commited to what she was doing? Funny also – River would not interfere. I very much hope this is a River pre Liberary.

Clara “I was born to safe the Doctor.” Sounds like she realises  it herself right then and there. (She heard what would be and acts to enable the (better – her) future. Like reading it in a book and having no choice at all. )

The Doctor saying she is absolutely perfect for him. Too perfect. Never really focusing in herself then, is she? Never too scared to act, never caught up in her own reation (Would you not have freaked out when awaking in Crimson horror? Did she even ask for an explanation?) Prime priority is and has always been the Doctor? Why?

Your thoughts on that?

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Well…… maybe they were just too far away from the upgrading station…?

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@Shazzbot 1) Maybe because he is human. Maybe because he had more time being a cyper-upgrade. The children might be unharmed because the cyberman lerned about the doctors potential.

2)Wembley got upgraded, didnt he?

4) It is stated they they needed children.

Nice thought with the phone idea! Though they might just have wanted the parts

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@Shazzbot I first interpreted that skirt line as a rest of the cyberman. I dont think the Doctor would not know though. So if it is 100% the Doctor I find that line quite disturbing. It’s exactly as unnerving as what he says about her in “she said, he said” the “p”-word. Very unsetteling to me. (Those of you who watced it shoud know…)

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@scaryb @lula I totally agree with both of you! Stunning, and being fanatastically waved throughout the series! (Though a lot you can only appreciate in retrospect (TATM- TPOT) Happy US Mothers day!

@thedoctordude I think you refer to SITL. River Song says something simillar there

 

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is it okay to discuss the trailer in here?

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OMG I just saw it! Everybody is RIGHT! DONT watch it, if you want to be suprised!!!!

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@Shazzbot thanks for the enlightment! I am not aquainted with the UK enough to know. BAFTA would stand for…? British annual F… Television awards? *sets of for that one spoiler*

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@Mephistopheles You are very welcome. Title makes no sense though because THERE IS NOTHING in there. Just the plain obvious. There is no “she said, he said” going on in what I saw… (hope that goes not too far for those who refuse watching it)

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@Shazzbot yes, it does not seem to reveal much. But I can not go for a week without seeing the other one. Does it have a name as well?

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@Mephistopheles besides the song “she said, he said” is an actual phrase also known as chinese whispers or whisper down the lane (did you know?)

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@chickenelly @wolfweed I want to see it! where?

What is BAFTA? Which red button? I’m highly confused now. Is there some colloquial english I am missing out on?

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@chickenelly I could not make anything out from “she said, he said”

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As by request of Whisht I will post something about “next time” here instead of in NiS.

Did you hear River telling someone “he cant go there, you know he cant” Why does she know that? Some assumed she would learn his name there. Who is she telling this to?

And right in the beginning the Doctor tells Clara “there is one place you must never go”  and Clara laters says “You just said there is one place you must never go” ….? Is that a hint for him instructing her? When he is gone? How could she get through time and space without him?

What is his duty??

The strax attacks the vastra?????

And that is definitily the Doctors hand over Rivers grave. What is going on? The last “next tim” was so impossibly missleading – I am not sure what to make of it.

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damn it i didnt see it

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@wolfweed yes, indeed

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That was brilliant. Hard to catch everything when someone is washing dishes and another one is playing guitar and there is gerneral chatter in a big kitchen. But this was amazing. You guys were right about the GI! How dud this guys survive? It was River Songs Grave…… WTH? That one corridoe was the one from the headless monks. Liked the inner dialoge. The “next time” trailor about this episode last week was totally missleading.

I could see JCL as a doctor, even though i would not like it much…. But this episode was fantastic.

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@craig So mean! Makes me think of the fairy tale Mary’s Child. Ever heard of it?

Our Lady’s Child
Hard by a great forest dwelt a wood-cutter with his wife, who had an only child, a little girl three years old. They were so poor, however, that they no longer had daily bread, and did not know how to get food for her. One morning the wood-cutter went out sorrowfully to his work in the forest, and while he was cutting wood, suddenly there stood before him a tall and beautiful woman with a crown of shining stars on her head, who said to him: “I am the Virgin Mary, mother of the child Jesus. Thou art poor and needy, bring thy child to me, I will take her with me and be her mother, and care for her.” The wood-cutter obeyed, brought his child, and gave her to the Virgin Mary, who took her up to heaven with her. There the child fared well, ate sugar-cakes, and drank sweet milk, and her clothes were of gold, and the little angels played with her. And when she was fourteen years of age, the Virgin Mary called her one day and said: “Dear child, I am about to make a long journey, so take into thy keeping the keys of the thirteen doors of heaven. Twelve of these thou mayest open, and behold the glory which is within them, but the thirteenth, to which this little key belongs, is forbidden thee. Beware of opening it, or thou wilt bring misery on thyself.” The girl promised to be obedient, and when the Virgin Mary was gone, she began to examine the dwellings of the kingdom of heaven. Each day she opened one of them, until she had made the round of the twelve. In each of them sat one of the Apostles in the midst of a great light, and she rejoiced in all the magnificence and splendour, and the little angels who always accompanied her rejoiced with her. Then the forbidden door alone remained, and she felt a great desire to know what could be hidden behind it, and said to the angels: “I will not quite open it, and I will not go inside it, but I will unlock it so that we can just see a little through the opening.” – “Oh no,” said the little angels, “that would be a sin. The Virgin Mary has forbidden it, and it might easily cause thy unhappiness.” Then she was silent, but the desire in her heart was not stilled, but gnawed there and tormented her, and let her have no rest. And once when the angels had all gone out, she thought: “Now I am quite alone, and I could peep in. If I do it, no one will ever know.” She sought out the key, and when she had got it in her hand, she put it in the lock, and when she had put it in, she turned it round as well. Then the door sprang open, and she saw there the Trinity sitting in fire and splendour. She stayed there awhile, and looked at everything in amazement; then she touched the light a little with her finger, and her finger became quite golden. Immediately a great fear fell on her. She shut the door violently, and ran away. Her terror too would not quit her, let her do what she might, and her heart beat continually and would not be still; the gold too stayed on her finger, and would not go away, let her rub it and wash it never so much.
 

It was not long before the Virgin Mary came back from her journey. She called the girl before her, and asked to have the keys of heaven back. When the maiden gave her the bunch, the Virgin looked into her eyes and said: “Hast thou not opened the thirteenth door also?” – “No,” she replied. Then she laid her hand on the girl’s heart, and felt how it beat and beat, and saw right well that she had disobeyed her order and had opened the door. Then she said once again: “Art thou certain that thou hast not done it?” – “Yes,” said the girl, for the second time. Then she perceived the finger which had become golden from touching the fire of heaven, and saw well that the child had sinned, and said for the third time: “Hast thou not done it?” – “No,” said the girl for the third time. Then said the Virgin Mary: “Thou hast not obeyed me, and besides that thou hast lied, thou art no longer worthy to be in heaven.” […]

…I wonder where that came from, I’m not even religous. My point is: posting a video you cant watch if you want to be suprised is pure temptation

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Well I guess nothing too big because all of the episodes are stand alones, remember?

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@Shazzbot the different picture could be explained by the doctor going back and getting his former self to where he needs to be with the tardis so he would not have to suffer for weeks.

@confuseus The Doctor could be completely in the dark about Clara, even if he build her in the future. If she were a machine she would have not become a Dalek and the red poison would have burned her circuits.  He also said that about her in the Snowmen – she could not die because it could not be his fault. He simply cant bear it.

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*dont know how to delete a post*

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It is just something that came to mind with that “but i think there are differences, most noticably that claras role is to save the doctor, not to kill him” so the complete opposite. Clara going bad could be a huge cliffhanger
speaking of cliffhanger. Could be a reprise of TBB – Everything going wrong and being resolved in november. I am sure they want us to collect clues and solutions until then (november)

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@bobbyfat So Clara is is an opposite blueprint of River? That would make her turn out bad , since she started good……

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@ Shazzbot Thank you so much for mentioning my huge post! I thought it would go unmentioned and all my quick thoughts would be against the etiquette or something and was about to step back into the shadow. -so really, thanks!-
I came to the same conclusion as @phaseshift The steam “cleans” the body (cells) from the poison. Maybe there is a different effect on humans though, maybe not.

A spin-off would be great, I’m completely with you. I can’t imagine it  though, because it would damage the “Doctor Who Brand”… overload so to say.

@omega That might be exactly what is going to happen in TNOTD. Could be spot on – not too fantastic.

@bobbyfat Nah, pure steam. What would Ms G need such a chamber for? She needed to know how much of the poison would make her immune. And she tested it on her daughter (which is absolutely sick)

@htpbdet What a post!(again) unfortunately I have no idea what ST:NG or Borg is (sorry!)
“#7785.    I really do think the different photo in the eye was artistic licence. I think they wanted the “monster Doctor” reveal to be a surprise in the episode and not in the opening sequence.”
This slightly changed past…. maybe the Doctor freed himself earlier in retrospect so he would not need to spend weeks in that form. Dosen’t strike me that there is nothing special about it. You might be right though.
#7786 My bad! *pull my hat*
“#7778.       Can’t see any basis for a timey-wimey non-monogamous deal between the Doctor and River. It’s a very strange marriage though, that’s for sure. I kind of wish we would see something lovely between them happen, but would it be too much? Not sure.”
The loveliest the two of them have are the miniepisodes ans TATM (he kisses her as a greeting and heals her wrist (which is a non plus ultra, because he only did that for her <3) )
“#7754.  But is it right that the Doctor makes his enemies worse? They could reform, adopt peaceful viewpoints – but they don’t. The choice is theirs – the Doctor does not make them do anything. Does he? I always thought Davros’ line that the Doctor is culpable for the sins of the Daleks was rhetoric of the most fascist and unsupportable kind.  People who do things in fear of the Doctor are doing bad things otherwise they would not have to fear him.”
I think JimTheFish refers especially to the dark Doctor theory (more to say his dark side)

@YouFedTheFish So a trap as the Doctor suspected in TJitCotT?

@Shazzbot “I’m wary of subscribing to this theory, because it has been done with River.  I’m also wary of agreeing with any Clara theories because I’m totally rubbish at theories!  Before my regeneration into the dark rich world of theorising, I always took stories at face value.  I’m still feeling my way, Ada-like, into the seamy world of infinite possibilities.  “
Nice picture you painted with Ada there!

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@juniperfish Thx for the explanation. I am really new to this whole Whoniverse

I am from Germany where Doctor Who is non-existant. I am in the UK for 8 (studies and so on) months and searched for things I might enjoy here in advance. I had my first contact with Doctor Who on YouTube in a Musical.

I followed up that interessting theme and learned a lot from bits and pieces on YouTube(I looked for pieces I found interessting in other videos). In the UK I actually bought S5P2&4(3Episodes per DVD is absolutely ridiculus btw)
So I cant say if old who is boring or getting worse and worse (as some say on the guardian) – it was good enough to attract me. Maybe it did change with time changing. But that is way better than not moving onwards (I GUESS [dont be offended, please] that’s why old Who stopped)

I looked for a board like this for quite a while and I really like it’s nice comfy atmosphere  you and others mentioned Juniperfish =)

@jimthefish “I’m all for difference of opinion and healthy debate but there’s an increasing tendency over there for it get very personal very quickly and with rather a lot of ‘playing the man instead of the ball’…” that is why I like it here 😉 More to the point with facts and actually considering other opinions. Though the first evening after the new release was all over the place…

 

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I just found the guardian bit(and the earlier referred to troll). Quite a party going on there with a lot of you commenting there as well. Is it kind of a rule that this is the place to be on the first episode after screening? I was wondering how considerably quiet it has been here. Quite a lot of hatred in the other one O-o.

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@phaseshift Thanks so much, a real insider.
@everybody new: welcome! New theories are always welcome =)      (figured the enter-thing out)

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@juniperfish I actually heard the swappable head refered to the Tesalecter

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Back again, rewatched it and actually made notes while watching (cant remember ever doing that for a TV-show) so I dont forget anything. Then I read everything here till #7766 … 1,2,3…12 post-its later here is what I got:

So further thoughts on the episode (in the order I noticed):

+ I liked the faiting act, all 3 of them looked real to me

+ It was really heartbreaking to see the doctor so helpless- not even able to speak. Although his appearence was not as shocking when I could catch the beginning. More child-friendly that way.

+How exactly does the steam help Clara and the Doctor?? There is no lightswitch between blue and red, but there is a different light while the Doctor gets back to his old form. There is a green light in progress and a red one when he opens the door…. ? That might be something. His sonic does no produce that much light?

What effect could the “preservation process” have for Clara? Long-term and all?

+I am very interested in the confidential of the episode!

+The doctor seems so much happier to me then in the other episode (Center of the TARDIS). Why? Did he figure something out?

+In the picture of the eye of that man the doctors mouth is closed and in the actual moment the mouth is open. Why? I dont think that is an coincident! @htpbdet No way that would be “artistic licence” – It happend in the last episode as well. That could actually be hidden in plain sight. If you just remember a picture but not how the Doctor (and the brothers) looked that could be a good clue, but for what? Any ideas?

+The Mother (Ms Gilliflower) does not even look at her daugther when she refuses “eden” to her. Why so?

+Absolutely loved the strax being treated as a child “did you eat…” “noooo…?” he even mumbles when he leaves the room

++I think that comment is very important in a way: Vastra says “you have unfinished business” (with clara) What does she imply?

+The Doctor is sooooo inclined to Clara, why?!? “miss me?” “yeah, loads” @ardaraith You really think River could watch that?? & Shouldnt I mention what is in “Next time” in here? & RYCBAR was the Wifi-pw so nothing that girl should  not have  known.

+I did not catch the “wrong hands” the first time. Nice one.

+Doctor after the rocket launched”I dont think so Ms Gilliflower” *big simle* liked that bit

+Ada killing Mr Sweet somehow reminds me of the Master. And one of this last words “Always the woman” @davemorris316 nice idea of yours with the master

+Why does the Doctor not care being called a monster? He never even once proposed to use his “real” name

+he “looks like your boyfriend” and Clara actually looks like she is caught in the act – quite upsets me. But I faintly remember reading that SM said something about a love triangle and that it is not what we would expect it to be- so I keep my hopes up.

@htpbdet @feralcat The TARDIS might did not go where the Doctor wanted because he needed to be somewhere else?? Or she wanted to protect Clara?? Intriguing what business the Doctor had in London. Did he really want to confront both Claras?

@phaseshift What is a mouthy Australian?

@bluesqueakpip I kind of remember a camera in Cold War? Maybe there have been some in other occasions as well? & River and the Doctor have some kind of an open Relationship, you reckon?

@scaryb Yes, very good acting indeed! But so violent and nobody really cares…& Yes, you are the only one who recognises something phallic

@juniperfish Which troll?

@bobbyfat I agree with you, the flashback was amazingly good

@all Who is Dan? And where did he recommend this? I am sorry but I really dont know =/ (& how can I leave out the additional space when pressing enter?)

and finally @jimthefish Love that! Especially because of what we saw in “Next time”!

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And something that is bogging me from the preview: Why in the world has the Doctor a bit of Cuircut on his face?

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I really liked this episode! There was so much in there that needs to be rewatched.  I tuned in a bit late so i started at the church. I try to recall as much as possible from first watching it.

I nearly had a heart attack at the first sight of the doctor (twice, if you count the flicker of the hand). It really remembered me a lot of Frankenstein xD “Its alive!”

@davemorris316 yeah, right?!? Absolutely fabulous! “Chairs are useful”

The recall of events was a really nice idea, liked that part “old school”. LOVED the strax in most of his scenes – he actually had to wait outside XD~  Jenny absolutely kicks ass.

I was a little freaked out with the Doctor kissing at random. I guess he was really happy to get out of this room. As a supporter of River that was a bit annoying – He has that in and out chemistry with Clara, doesent he?

Too bad they didnt confront Clara with that other version of her! That was just to show the audience they did not leave it out because they forgot.

Nobody was freaked out by the violence of the mother to the daughter and the daughter to Mr. Sweet – I found that a bit to argressive for a kids show (I mean they could have been concerned or anything, any sign..)

Argh, it’s all just bits and pieces of the first impression – I need to rewatch it to make more sense of it.

 

What did you guys think?

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@IAmNotAFishIAmAFreeMan She lied. She says the Doctor taught her when he accuses her that she is flying the TARDIS wrong. Right before the Doctor is locked into the Pandorica

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@idiotsavon welcome! The password is such a good point!!!!!! It is hidden in plain sight and can mean something. rycbar123 could also refer to clara and her history. maybe even the numbers have a meaning so that only not olny her dying-phrase is there but it tells us viewers that there are only tree versions of her. 1 dead, 2 dead, 3 last call – only 3 claras ? If clara has been deliberatly placed in that times so that the doctor could find her and investigate her past…. leading him to a dangerous future to the fields of trenzalore.

@elwingt welcome! I feel exactly the same. A very warm atmosphere around here, otherwise I would have never joined the conversation. All the bonkers theories are quite addictive though.

heard something from SM in an old episode: the answer must be as much a riddle as the question(Rivers heritage). A little disheartening =/ So we might learn nothing in ep. 8 at all ='(

 

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@HaveYouFedTheFish =) Just watched the whole episode (jumped a bit) and there is another notion at the end:

“when I was a kid, you said there was a swimming pool and a liberary. and the swimming pool was IN the liberary.” “yeah, not sure where it has gone to now, but it will turn up. So? Comming?”

There are so many good theories here – watching what SM came up with could be a let-down in comparison =(

While I am at it: I never could understand (acustically – english is not my first language and he is kinda mumbling) what the doctor said to river in that one episode after his death (the impossible astronaut) when refuses to investigate. “River you yadayadayada , but to trust you….” never got that right. Does anyone know?

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@HaveYouFedTheFish just for you:

amilia:”are you okay?” “Just had a fall right down there, right to the liberary. Hell of a climb back up” “You are soaking wet.” “I was in teh swimming pool” “You said you were in the liberary” “so is the swimming pool” (swept there) “are you a policemen?” “why?…”

Sry, transcript takes me a while

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@HaveYouFedTheFish =/ Dunno. I dont think so, though. I thought that huge amount of water swept just out of the swimming pool into the liberary – ruiuning a lot of books. No clue how the Doctor repaired that. It’s not like these two rooms have fused.

River has fallen into the swimming pool, true. there is also more than one door to the swimming pool (amy and rory should open them all). It has allways left me puzzled how river had no injuries – falling past the main room (gosh, forgot t’s name) through all the corridors into one of these doors – we could see the water splash out of the TARDIS. Also the gravity is different in there. Everything gravitates to the floor – so while falling she would have hit bottom eventually…. Can the Doctor decide where the door to the outside is located?

Why did she loose 25%?

For the next episode: he is going back to the time he found clara the second time, right? SO will the others confront her with the Clara they knew?

 

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@HaveYouFedTheFish Love your theory! Only in the eleventh hour the swimmingpool is in the liberary because of the crash. It’s not like it is supposed to be like this.

@Bobbyfat very probable! (the clones) Like it

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@lula Im no help with any old Who – but there is the saying of alpha and omega -the beginning and the end of everything

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@Bluesqueakpip 

I often feel JLC as an echo of KG, not the other way around. She  delivers a lot of her lines with Clara as Amy would have done.

 

I like the idea of the doctor saving his gradaughter as he ran away

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@fulcanelli I did totally miss that!

Amy could have done that on purpose – how would she know what would happen? Did River tell her somehow and asked her to make a book out of it????????

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@all who referenced me i have absolutely no idea right now. i wouldnt like everything pointing to river as well…. kinda boring.  And I dont think SM would do the same thing twice, would he? I mean his name is on the line with each episode.

Which book are you refering to if not the history one? Did I miss something?

Basically we need more clues. I guess SM might do something like he did before in the big bang- reliving certain episodes which have a different meaning later on “no, thats the point, you have to remember” (did you get that here before it was revealed?).

I cant wait for the Doctors Name (8/8) :

Q: What can you tell us about the finale?

SM: It’s full of surprises and questions that have never been answered in the history of Who, including the Doctors greatest secret.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We’re not pretending, we’re not kidding, it’s actually going to happen.!!!!!!!!  The episode is called The Name of the Doctor and involves our hero in a conflict that is very, very personal to him.  Usually he’s saving other people, but this time he might be the one who needs to be saved.  We’ll also find out what makes his new companion so impossible and there’s a surprise that no one has got right so far, and one that will change the course of Who forever!

River is in that episode- despite my theory that he told her his name at the singing towers to make sure he would trust her this might be the real thing. Love the character of River Song(SM: she is to the doctor what the doctor is to others) so I was really excited when I heard she would be in it.

The next episode does not look like there would be a lot of clues in it. 6days to go to make sure…

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I think this is a very kinda dark view of the doctor. It says on the video: Matt Smith on the Doctor: “That’s what interests me about The Doctor because, actually, look at the blood on the man’s hands… Which is why I think he has to make silly jokes and wear a fez. Because if he didn’t, he’d hang himself.”

(not sure if it works, never did it before. Keeps showing up in the edit…..) Link

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@scaryb thats why she does not need the same appearence. the doctor could go back there 10 years from now and the character river song would still be available.  that way DW is not bound to alex. just a though anyway

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