[WhoHar @replies]

Thought I’d do a recap ahead of the two-part finale. I’ve reached back to the start of the 60th Anniversary specials, so there will be some stuff in here that has been mentioned and recapped before.

What needs clearing up:

1. Where is Doc 14?
2. Who is Ruby’s father, the infamous (Alf) Garnet(t)
3. What is the V’Linx? Is it more than a virtual link?
4. Is Belinda / Bel(l) / Belle special in some way?
5. What, and who, caused the schwup?
6. Why can’t The Doc and Belinda get back to May 24^th?
7. Are The Doctor and Belinda in an altered / alternate reality?
8. Are they in the Land of Fiction? Who is the Story Master / Mistress?
9. Is there some issue with the LoF computer or the Story Master / Mistress?
10. Are they seeing the effects of the Toymaker’s jigsaw making of The Doc’s past?
11. Who is The One who Waits?
12. Why did Mrs. Flood release Conrad at the end of Lucky Day? Is Conrad significant e.g. another god, or a TL?
13. Was Conrad the trigger for the Doc to go looking for Belinda?
14. Why were not all the Doctors represented in the montage in The Story and the Engine?
15. Why did Ruth Doc appear in flashback in TSaTE?
16. Why did a Space Baby appear in TSaTE?
17. Who is The Meep’s boss and is that the same as Rogue’s new boss?
18. To whom did the mysterious red-finger-nailed hand belong, which picked up the gold tooth the Master is supposedly trapped in?
19. Why does the TARDIS keep making a groaning noise (she did it when Rogue came on board, for example)? Is some kind of temporal paradox event disturbing her?
20. Is Susan just in the Doc’s head, or is she going to return in person? And why now?

[WhoHar @replies]

@ps1l0v3y0u @blenkinsopthebrave

The Unholy Trinity confirmed

https://www.radiotimes.com/tv/sci-fi/doctor-who-mrs-flood-identity-correct-newsupdate/

 

[WhoHar @replies]

Bonkers Theory Klaxon:

In the scene with the Doc in space when he uses the confetti gun to fire himself back to the station, the following can be seen in really large letters on the side of the gun:

DMC88

Could this be a big clue?

D(oc) MC(oy) (19)88

Season 25 (in old money) was McCoy’s 2nd and started on Oct 5th 1988 with Remembrance of the Daleks.

And with the mention of the Delta Wave in this episode (per Parting of the Ways), can we expect a return of the Insane Tanks?

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@blenkinsopthebrave @winston

That’s a lovely read; I’d not heard of him but what an interesting life.

And this quote from the article

when an elder dies, a library burns to the ground

Magnificent.

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@dwnerdfrommars

I guess anything’s possible. However, if they are trying to encourage new viewers to the show, I doubt they’d introduce a character from a spin-off that even diehard Who fans didn’t really watch. It was a big enough leap introducing the Rani I think.

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@blenkinsopthebrave

This seems generally positive. The things that stood out for me were:

1. The budget being mainly spent on filming in 4k, and the assertion that, as the BBC films in HD only, they wouldn’t “miss” the lost money if Disney pull out.

And..

2. The Tardis set is still standing in Cardiff, which runs counter to other rumours mentioned previously.

It’d be nice if the source was named, as that would lend some credence to the article. I guess there’s going to be a lot of this sort of thing until any official BBC announcement…

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@blenkinsopthebrave

I don’t think Belinda is Susan’s daughter. In last week’s episode she mentioned to the Doctor that her nan took her to visit India, so she could get a sense of her heritage.

That’s a good spot. Maybe Susan chameleon arched her when the rest of the TLs were being killed off, and then dropped her into another family, who adopted her?

That shot of all the people being sucked into space was stunning, but I take your point that money alone won’t save a poor script. Bit harsh comparing any iteration of Who with Casablanca, but I do see where you are coming from.

@dwnerdfrommars @winston

Yes plenty to enjoy for me, although some of it didn’t really make sense, if you think about it e.g. how did the Earth host Rylan get there if the Earth is gone, how did all those people survive when the deep cold of space kills a TL, how did a Delta Wave transmit out when all other signals were blocked, why did Mrs Flood suddenly become so subservient, why did the Doc think of Susan now? But I just allowed myself to get swept along.

I guessed the singer was a Hellion quite early on, and I do wonder if it was a commentary on people having to hide their true identity, something that the writer likely has real-world experience of.

[WhoHar @replies]

Interesting news:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/doctor-whos-next-two-series-35238617

Looks like change is afoot.

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First thoughts: visually very pleasing, and you could see where the Disney money was spent.

Lots going on again but it felt much tighter an episode than last week’s.

The minor characters were well-sketched out and felt like actual people rather than the archetypes of last week.

I’m not sure the dark Doctor moment was a good idea. Torturing a person is so out of character, I found it a bit jarring.

Freddie Fox and Varada Sethu both excellent I thought.

I enjoyed it overall. Some other random musings:

Belinda mentions her parents again. This is significant I think. Belinda is Susan’s daughter?

The ep had a bit of Utopia / The Sound of Drums / Last of the Time Lords vibe.

Lots of “borrowing” of ideas:

Hard light hologram – Red Dwarf

Hologram trick – Luke in The Last Jedi

The singer – Fifth Element

So, they mentioned a Delta Wave. Daleks in next ep? I didn’t see a trailer for it.

Good to hear the cloister Bell again. And Dugga doo would probably win Eurovision.

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@ps1l0v3y0u

The Unholy Trinity

Two Rani and one Master?

[WhoHar @replies]

I wonder also if there is a tie-in with the weird Space Babies. As in they are a Rani experiment. Like you said before, she is very Tecteun in character. Could this be Russ riffing on this and / or trying to fix the TC debacle?

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Weird also how Mrs Flood became so quickly submissive. I am getting some Simm-Master / Missy vibes and I think she (Mrs F) will turn on Panjabi-Rani at some point.

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@ps1l0v3y0u

The return of Susan was more of a surprise for me than the Rani’s return. But…Archie Panjabi.

I do wonder now if Susan is going to be significant in the denouement.

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@ps1l0v3y0u

Thanks for the info. You may be onto something there.

I’ve actually got all The Special Collection blu-rays that have been released (bar Davison’s first season), which is doubly annoying as they were on sale for around AUD 55 at the time, but are now in excess of the equivalent of AUD 250 for a poor copy. I have the regular blurays though. C’est la vie…

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@ps1l0v3y0u

The Unholy Trinity is The Mara

I’m not all that familiar, as I haven’t watched much 5th Doc stuff. But the Mara’s ability to get inside people’s heads would perhaps be a pathway to explaining why things are just so darn weird in this run of Who. Maybe they feed on the Doc’s tears (or the accompanying emotions)?

In the Sutekh speech from TLoRS, these trios were also mentioned:

The Threefold Deity of Malice, Mischief, & Misery

and

Gods of Skin and Shame & Secrets

then we have

Incensor, and its children Dread & Doubt

So, could be any of the above, or none.

Similarly, with regard to Mrs. Flood being part of the Unholy Trinity, I believe RTD has mentioned previously that the Song Contest ep (up next), will reveal something about her character, so hopefully we will have something else to go on.

TL:DR – I’ve still no clue, and we’ll have to wait for the penultimate episode.

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@mudlark @ps1l0v3y0u

If I have understood the significance of her appearance in this episode, she represents a memory flash on the part of Abena, having been the Doctor who refused to take her, Abena, travelling as a companion. None of the others, including Gatwa Doc would have been aware of her.

The slight problem with this that I can see, is that Abena was talking out loud about this meeting with Doc 15, and his response indicated that he was aware of this event. If he truly had no knowledge of the bet, then he would have more likely responded with a question, or statement that he didn’t understand what Abena was referring to. It seems odd that he specifically mentioned he had no knowledge of being in a black body (when we know he has seen RuthDoc previously) but he remembers the bet with Abena. Given the memory wipe which occurred during Doc 13’s time (and those memories being locked in the fob watch stored deep within the Tardis*) it should be the other way around.

Unless the whole sequence was meant to be playing out only in Abena’s head, which I realise now may be what you were saying all along.

The matter of Ruth Doc’s Tardis still nags at me

Yes, this remains problematic. I wonder if RTD is trying to reconcile this apparent contradiction. The Toymaker’s assertion that he created a jigsaw of the Doctor’s past in the 60th Specials may be as far as he will go. I think that was deliberate by RTD to allow fans to create their own “headcanon” that still allows for the TC to remain in the show in some form. Although, it could equally make the Ruth Doc a later version of the current Doc (with the usual caveats about timestreams realigning etc. meaning he has no memory of his meeting her as Doc 13). Would explain Ruth Doc’s Tardis.

My suspicion is that RTD doesn’t approve of the timeless child narrative, but that his hands of somewhat tied in directly contradicting it.

* Does Doc14’s Tardis have a copy of the fob watch also?

 

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@whisht @mudlark

He wasn’t prepared to accept  the loss of control and subordinate status, but in defying the gods and planning revenge he lost his own power as a storyteller

Yes, this was my take also. It would have been nice to understand how and why it occurred but I assume the story runtime meant it had to be implied rather than shown (two-parter, cough, cough).

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@blenkinsopthebrave @janetteb @mudlark

the Unholy Trinity

I wonder who this could be. My first thought was either three of the Pantheon (but which ones?), or possibly three Time Lords: Rassilon, Omega and the Master. (Or Meddling Monk, or The Rani).

But I think it more likely that Mrs Flood is one of this Trinity.

We tend to think of Unholy as being bad i.e. the opposite of Father, Son and Spirit in the Christian tradition (or Charlton, Best and Law in the footballing tradition).

But unholy is a subjective adjective so, from the bad guys’ perspective, it could mean a trio of (what we’d call) heroes.

I’m overtaking for sure, and they will probably be characters we haven’t met yet, be evil,  and come from the Underverse, which does at first thought seem like the Upside-down of Stranger Things.

And, yes, RTD and his finales. Especially after last year’s effort, I will be tempering my expectations.

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@whisht

In fact the Barber hasn’t been telling stories – he’s been stealing them.

I wondered about this. If he’s the storyteller of the gods then why did he need to hold people hostage and force them to tell stories? Presumably he wasn’t able to tell stories anymore, but I didn’t see the reason why that was the case explained in the episode.

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Final ep info (from RTD himself):

The Doctor is doomed, Belinda is lost, Ruby is trapped, UNIT is powerless, the Unholy Trinity rule supreme and the Underverse is rising. And now we can all experience this devastating climax together, all at the same time, with a unique worldwide premiere. I can promise shocks, scares and revelations off the scale. Come and have fun!”

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@blenkinsopthebrave

As the embittered archivist/storyteller

Apparently, the writer Inua Ellams discovered that the French word for ghostwriter is a variation of the N-word, and this is what informed this story. Knowing that, adds another layer to the Barber’s story.

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@blenkinsopthebrave @ps1l0v3y0u @devilishrobby

Throwing in a giant mechanical spider in outer space

and

Why a child? What point was RTD2 trying to make? B*ggered if I know.

I think the spider would have made more sense if the whole plotline about the gods and trying to destroy them by killing their stories had been removed. That part didn’t really make any sense to me for a number of reasons. Imagine though if the motivation of the Barber (who was excellent I thought) was merely to damage the Nexus using the spider, in order to sow division amongst humans. It’s a lot simpler and therefore more understandable. You’d still have to come up with a proper motivation for the Barber e.g. he is Anansi.

They could then also have removed the daughter of Anansi plotline, further streamlining things; I’m not sure if it being in there and the Dr Ruth connection is just playfulness or if it’s significant.

The child? Apparently, according to the credits, it was the same actor and the same character name as one of (the captain of ?) the Space Babies. This probably doesn’t help at all, and I’m baffled why it was in there. The best reason I can think of is to keep sites like this one engaged in speculation, but I hope not.

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@cookgroom

but it was in the jo martin timeline, does that mean we are in the alternate timeline now

Well, this is interesting as those memories are meant to be captured in the 13th Docs watch that she dropped into the divisions repository.

But the Doc at the end said that the stories were leaking out in the wrong order, so who knows.

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There was a lot to like in this episode, and I’m still processing (like most of this thread). Visually pleasing, with great characters and performances and the setting was terrific too. The world building was fantastic.

I got some American Gods vibes mixed in with The Rings of Akhaten.

The whole ep was, for me, a fable about fables.

The story window was lovely, and I could have listened to a lot more of those stories.

There was a lot going on, maybe too many ideas for the 50 minutes, and I am not sure it fully worked. The idea that the antagonist wanted to destroy all the stories of the gods by travelling to the centre of the Nexus in a giant spider, itself powered by stories was remarkably inventive. But both the motivations of the antagonist and the consequent impact to humanity seemed a little weak.

The resolution also felt a bit rushed.

But the braided hair maze map was a really subtle way of introducing the effects of slavery, and highlighted how those affected were able to overcome adversity with ingenuity.

Having a poet write for Who was always likely to yield something different and interesting, and I’m all here for it. I hope he gets to write another episode.

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@blenkinsopthebrave

Yes, I hope he turns out to be something significant. I thought the actor playing him was great – he gave me Paul McGann vibes a bit – so it will be good to see him again.

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@mudlark

I’m still pondering the question of what could have turned the child Conrad into the thoroughly unpleasant and exploitative adult he became.

Yes, this aspect was a little underwritten, with just hints of abuse, and means we have to fill in the gaps. This is probably down to the episode run time. If Who was only on streaming, then it could alter the episode lengths to suit. As it is, the only option would be a two-parter, and a two part, Doctor lite, episode probably wouldn’t fly. Personally I’d make all the stories two parts, as it allows more depth of storytelling, but YMMV as the kids say.

@blenkinsopthebrave

So when Conrad says to the Doctor “I refuse to accept your reality”, that might not be an unpleasant human speaking.

Another member of the Pantheon perhaps? God of Untruth. It’s also interesting that he didn’t take the vaccine Ruby gave him. If he wasn’t human maybe he didn’t need it. Or it was a commentary on the Venn Diagram crossover of conspiracy theorists and anti-vaxxers.

@dwnerdfrommars

There’s a spoiler thread where this sort of thing is usually put. @craig can perhaps move it?

 

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@mudlark

He was introduced to Belinda when he encountered her and the Doctor on New Years Eve 2007, when he was a child

I am still trying to figure the timelines out here, so bear with me.

The Doc and Belinda meet a young Conrad in 2007, the Doc gives him the 50 pence piece.

Conrad then sees the Doc (with Ruby) in 2024

Conrad last sees the Doc in 2025 (when the Tardis materialises around him in the prison cell). At this point in time, the Doc doesn’t know who Belinda is but knows what Conrad did to Ruby. This suggests to me that this is therefore pre-TRR (and may be the trigger for why the Doc went looking for Belinda).

Two thoughts – why did Conrad mention Belinda at all? Was it just mischief making, or did he take the (unexpected, presumably) final meeting to plant a seed? If so, why? It seems he will re-appear, given The Governor released him, so he therefore is of importance.

And, given the 2007 meeting was – from the Doctor’s perspective – later in his timeline than when he’d met Ruby, does this mean the Doctor knew who Conrad was when he gave him the 50 pence and therefore what he was about to do (or had done from the Doc’s perspective)? If so, it seems incredibly cold or calculating, and out of character.  That said, there are a lot of instances in this run where the Doc behaves differently to previous iterations. This could be as a result of in-story reasons e.g. the bi-generation, or maybe RTD2 wants to take the character in a new direction / it is a deliberate tonal shift / it is a consequence of the morality of the stories being told.

@ps1l0v3y0u

did you see what looked like an unfeasibly vast arthropod in the teaser at the end? Do you remember the 2006 Christmas Special?

Given that this episode is set in Nigeria, my immediate thought was that maybe it is connected (or borrows from) Anansi – the trickster god of West African (Akan) folklore.

[WhoHar @replies]

we could potentially discount the Rani from our hypotheses

Counterpoint to this (obviously there’s a counterpoint): As I was searching for the licensing issue, I found out that Rani is Hindi for Queen. Belinda was called a queen in the first ep.

[WhoHar @replies]

I found this an interesting read, from a number of perspectives:

https://www.doctorwhotv.co.uk/2nd-opinion-1-doctor-who-lucky-day-104524.htm

It contains some things we have touched on here, but also a critique of the writing.

One of the things the author points out is that the stories in this season bear a lot of similarities to stories in RTDs first Who run. Based on this, he then postulates that Mrs. Flood will be revealed as the Rani in the penultimate ep.  (cf. the Master reveal in Utopia) assuming that the licensing issue with the Bakers would be resolved. I’d not heard anything about this latter point, so I did some digging around. It seems that this licensing issue is maybe not as easy to resolve as he thinks and, if so, we could potentially discount the Rani from our hypotheses.

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@blenkinsopthebrave

Did I enjoy it? Not really. It highlighted the ugly side of the world we inhabit in 2025. And frankly, I get more than I need of that from the news each day.

I stopped watching Years and Years for the same reason. Too bleak. Perhaps this version of Who reflects RTDs latter-years mindset.

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@mudlark

Belinda and the the Doctor experience a scrambled review of her life past and (potentially) future.

That’s an excellent point and not one I’d considered.

I suggest it may still point to Belinda being in some way special, given the dialogue I mentioned previously. What it does do, however, is to open up other solutions for her significance outside of the TL / Gallifreyan connections of my hastily-written conclusions from earlier. I need to think again.

That sequence also harks back to the Toymaster saying he had made a jigsaw of the Doctor’s life. Perhaps we are now seeing that scrambled version where things don’t fit together correctly.

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I Reject your Reality

This is significant.

UNIT really need to sort out their recruitment. And their security.

[WhoHar @replies]

Another solid ep.

Jemma Redgrave was immense again.

The monsters are human.

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@janetteb @blenkinsopthebrave @winston

Thankfully the results seem to indicate a shift in voters preferences towards more progressive policies. And, given the Coalition leader also lost his seat, I like to think this may signal that all parties will move away from their more divisive pronouncements. Given the bile already being spewed on Sky though, my hope may be somewhat forlorn.

And, yes, I too was hoping for more Greens and Independents. I went to vote and one of the candidates shouted out “Vote Legalise Cannabis Party, we’re the only fun party”. It’s a bit different from voting in the UK, that’s for sure. No democracy sausages there.

 

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@ps1l0v3y0u

But Sutekh had supposedly perished in PoM, so anything is in play I think.

@blenkinsopthebrave

The Blinovich Limitation Effect?

@janetteb

Erm…

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@janetteb @blenkinsopthebrave

I was thinking more of Omega (S10) than the Master (S8) but, if my observation about RTDs thought process has any legs, then either one works.

Another old-Who TL that is rarely mentioned is the Meddling Monk. I don’t know all that much about him except that he was a Monk, and he meddled. I vaguely remember something about him in a story involving the Battle of Hastings, and the MM’s attempt to change the outcome by giving modern weapons to Harold.

I don’t think RTD will retore Gallifrey anytime soon – this reboot of the show has a lonely Time Lord (apart from the other one on Earth!), and I suspect he’ll prefer that thematically. Season 3 or 4 for a big TL reveal is my guess. That said he could bring a single one back at any point.

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Are we (the audience) being played like a fiddle by RTD? We are all looking at Mrs Flood as the mystery, but what if it lies elsewhere?

All through Season 1, Ruby was the “special” companion, who turned out to be ordinary.

In Season 2, Belinda is the ordinary companion who just wants to get back home. What if she is, in fact, extraordinary?

A couple of things I noticed in TRR:

1. When Belinda enters the Tardis, her reaction is a bit muted. Like she’s seen one before.

My reaction at the time was that maybe RTD was trying something different / setting up the character. Then…

2. Later on she says to the Doc something like “Is this your Tardis?”, but this was before the Doc had mentioned what it was called.

I found this a bit odd at the time but put it down to an editing issue.

Then in Lux, she says something like “Let’s get home to Gallifrey”. This is strange phrasing to use, and I took it initially that she meant “let’s get you (the Doc) home to Gallifrey”. But maybe Gallifrey is also her home.

There are a number of scenarios potentially at play here:

– she may have known the Doc / another TL before.

– she may be a TL herself but be hiding it, or not realise she is one.

– she may be another version of the pre-Hartnell Doc.

– she may be another version of Mrs Flood (who also knows about Tardises (Tardi ?), and can time travel, so may be a TL.

There is some counter evidence but it could equally be misdirection and explained away.

Also, it’s late here, I’m  tired and I’ve spent far too long thinking about this, so I’ll just leave it in the ether…

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@juniperfish @mudlark @ps1l0v3y0u

@blenkinsopthebrave

Some intetesting points here. I tend to agree that the optics of a black Doc being “bad” would tend to rule it out. It would be interesting though to have the Doc turn to the dark side as it were. And it ties into the idea of the bi-generation splitting the Doc into two (this sounds a bit Valeyard-like)

“Chandra” means “moon” in Hindi

This is a great spot but, alas, RTD2 has already mentioned the late casting of Sethu, (with her performance in Boom apparently convincing him to make her the companion) and that she was originally written as Belinda Finch (?), or another Anglo name. Could be a misdirect by RTD though.

@janetteb

I would prefer Who stories to be a little more grounded

This got me thinking about the 3rd Doctor and his “grounding” on Earth, and how the current season is the opposite to those (Doc 3 wanted to leave Earth and couldn’t, Doc 15 wants to get back to Earth and can’t). Maybe that is something RTD2 is consciously playing with.

Of course we know that Doc 3’s exile was finally revoked by the TLs after the 3 Doctor’s, a kind of tri-generation at a push. And we all know who the Big Bad was there…

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I do have some sympathy for the prod crew here. Their job is mainly to give a feel of the period, rather than an accurate representation. Possibly this is driven by the age of the people involved (as mentioned above). Perhaps the music on 1920s-set shows weren’t accurate? I’m not an expert in this area, so can’t comment Help : @thane.

I think this is a modern TV thing though, in that it is less of an issue to be historically faithful.

That said, there is perhaps a drop off in “standards”.

Also, concerns about these things, pre-internet  were not large, mainly because who would have picked this up (and also be able to broadcast it).  When you have “fans” complaining that nails were visible in Andor, and that wasn’t aligned with the world, then perhaps fans should all step back and breathe. Just my 2c

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@mudlark

I don’t presume to speak on behalf of the forum. But…

No apology necessary. All forum’s members insights are welcomed at any time. Personally speaking, your posts are much appreciated.

Sorry to hear about your and your neighbour’s recent travails. Hard at any time, but Christmas makes it especially poignant. Hope all is well for you both.

Post when you are able (they are always welcome), but please don’t feel under any obligation.

As they say Down Under: Rest up.

[WhoHar @replies]

Some further ramblings:

Mrs Flood. Tears. Floods of tears? Dunno what this means but I’m sure it means something.

The monster in this ep had a different way of working. In Midnight it was possession / taking over speech. Here, it was much more visceral and physical. Like the change seen in  the Weeping Angels behaviour post Blink. I can’t see this being significant, but it’s interesting to me.

Are we sure this is the same monster? It said it knew the Doc but that doesn’t mean it was the same entity.  We know about the Greek gods, but we’re not Plato.

And yes, as mentioned above, I think there was a reference to this monster being a Pantheon member. God of backpacks?

Why did the Doc cry? Didn’t seem to be any reason in-story.

Is the continuing mention of Bel(inda) anything to do with the Bel from Once, Upon Time in the Chibnall Flux run?

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I enjoyed it. Some random thoughts:

1. It works, even without the Midnight tie-in.

2. Pretty bleak for a Who episode. Multiple violent deaths, a suicide, a companion being shot and having to be revived, and the monster gets away.

3. The Doc cries again. This must be a plot thing.

4. The Doc loses. It’s a bit of a theme now that he’s been rather ineffective (and reliant on others) in several eps, but to completely lose a battle is unusual. Everybody dies.

5. Why wasn’t the Doc in danger when he was chasing the commander at the end? He was right behind her?

6. I didn’t understand the logic behind the Mercury waterfall. Any ideas?

7. Did the Doc leave his sonic behind on the video monitor?

A solid ep I thought. The season is shaping up much better than the last one.

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All of it was predicated on what the Master told the Doc. Just reveal that the Master was lying.

Thinking about it, you’d also have to work out how to explain away Doctor Ruth, but it could be done (e.g. the previous theory she’s between 2 and 3).

I don’t recall if any other Doctors were explicitly shown but, if they were, then it becomes a bit more convoluted to do.

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@ps1l0v3y0u

Are you saying that RTD may be taking us into a fantasy world in part to retcon the worst excesses of the Chibnall era?.

But also to explain away the many and inevitable anomalies and inconsistencies of a 60+ year old sci-fi / fantasy show? Interesting.

Some random thoughts:

1. Can you retcon the entire show in a way that would not destroy/ tarnish what’s gone before? This would be a big risk for RTD, especially if he’s considering his Doctor Who legacy.

2. And even if it can be done, should it? All / some of the writers, directors, crew, actors etc. may have their work significantly impacted e.g rewatch Smith’s last episode again, but through the lens of Chibnall’s retconning – it changes the core of the story.

3. Moffat’s already had a go at this e.g in the 50th anniversary special there was a line about the Unit dating controversy, where Kate L-S says “70s or 80s, depending on the dating protocol” (I paraphrase). And, you can argue that Clara entering the Docs timestream may have caused some of the historical anomalies we’ve seen on screen. I don’t know if Moffat considered this typw of retcon, but he was very prone to changing things up when it suited him / the story.

3. There’s a much easier way to retcon TTC (although not as entertaining and it would be a bit more of a metaphorical slap in Chibnall’s face). All of it was predicated on what the Master told the Doc. Just reveal that the Master was lying.

I don’t think RTD will do it at all but, if he is going to do any retcons, it would only stretch back to the start of 14, or maybe a couple of eps back into the Whittaker era. Although there was Whittaker’s 4th wall break in that awful Orphan 55 ep., so maybe he’d retcon back even further.

 

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Or – if we are going with the Mind Robber / Land of Fiction theory, then Mrs F could be the Mistress (not Missy), an English writer controlled by the  “Master Brain” computer.

https://tardis.fandom.com/wiki/The_Mind_Robber_(TV_story)

But maybe something’s gone wrong? Eg the computer has a virus, or Mrs F has a conscious or unconscious (maybe she’s neuro divergent or neuro compromised) desire to meddle.

If we are in the LoF, it could certainly explain “mavity”, the continual 4th wall breaking, other anomalies we have observed.

One other point – if the schwup has caused / been caused by the destruction of Earth, then what is Doc 14 doing about it? “Nothing” seems to be the answer, so he’s either dead, away from Earth, doesn’t actually exist (as it’s all a story), or RTD has not thought thru the consequences of the bigeneration.

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@devilishrobby @whisht

If it is another old Who callback, and one of the Guardians, I’d be a bit surprised. But…

1. I’ve been wrong before, pretty much everytime actually.

2. I’d reckon she would be the Black Guardian, given her previous statement about “bringing terror”.

What is interesting is that she’s been the neighbour of both of Doc 15s two companions. That can’t be coincidence, and maybe the fact she seems to be dressing as former companions e.g. Romana’s white coat, suggests a deeper interest in the Doctor’s friends, at least some of them.

She can also time travel as we saw this week, although other explanations may be available for her appearance in 1952.

I’m actually hoping she’s a new character (see also @blenkinsopthebrave ‘s nanny theory), although Susan or Omega would also work (for me). Or maybe she’s the one who waits?

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@scaryb

Re: Disney+, I think Who is on there for Rest of the World, in the UK it’s BBC / iPlayer.

I don’t think even RTD would retcon the entirety of Who, by making it a story within a story. Would he? He can retcon The Timeless Child as much as he likes, though. 😀

@bobbyfatv2

Tears is definitely this Docs thing. It appears to be Gatwa’s choice (according to RTD), but that seems an odd thing to do every episode (and it’s now in the next trailer), so maybe they are scripted and, therefore, important.

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@thane16

Lots of callbacks. I think also a song from Doc 11 (during the scene with the fans). Sad Man in a Box.

Also the Mr RaD laugh was the same as Stooky Bill’s from The Giggle.

And did anyone catch the mid credits scene?

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@devilishrobby @ps1l0v3y0u @craig

An enjoyable ep. A bit trippy and very meta at times. I liked the joke about Mr Ring a ding not having emotions as he was a two dimensional character

24th May is the airing of the penultimate episode.

I also had the same thought about the regen scene.

And, yes, I was also confused by how the Doc saw the letters.

Music notes restraining people in the last series, film stock in this. Another Mrs Flood cameo, and this one means she can time travel.

I thought Varada Sethu was excellent.

 

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@ps1l0v3y0u

….maybe ALL the companions I dunno

(Cough, cough) Susan.

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