On the Sofa (part 2)
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26 July 2013 at 15:12 #14448
@janetteb — The Mind Robber is actually one of a rare species: a 5-parter! The first episode is almost standalone, and the rest of the story can be told without it (except that the first episode is also utterly wonderful and amputating it would be anathema to me). So I think that would settle it on Tomb.
Agree, the telesnap reconstruction can indeed be tough. Mission to the Unknown is an example of how Loose Cannon got better at it, learning tricks to hold the viewer’s interest in a static screen. But The Space Pirates has indeed been tough. How I loved episode 2, just for existing!
26 July 2013 at 15:59 #14452@htpbdet, @scaryb — I might be coming across as a naysayer with regards to the Dalek Invasion of Earth, so I’ll be clear: it’s wonderful. And unique. There’s something uniquely frightening in the fact that the Daleks invaded and the Doctor hadn’t been around to stop them. All the later stories (of which I maintain The War Machines was the first ;)) had the Doctor at the start of events, defeating the invasion and preventing the conquest of Earth. That’s reassuring. The Dalek Invasion of Earth isn’t, and when I call it the odd man out I mean it as a complement.
26 July 2013 at 16:24 #14454You don’t come across as a naysayer, fear not.
I don’t, for my part, see any difference between Dalek Invasion of Earth and War Machines, as story types, except degree. The Doctor is not there when the enemy in War Machines arrives – their invasion has commenced and the Doctor ends their plans.
That too, is what happens in Dalek Invasion of Earth – but there the invasion plans were considerably more advanced before the Doctor arrives.
They are both reassuring to me – the Doctor defeats the enemy. Defeating the Daleks in Daleks Invasion of Earth, though, does seem a bigger deal than War Machines. At least to me. So it is more reassuring.
It is rare, if indeed it happens at all, for the Doctor to be somewhere on Earth and engaged before the invasion begins: the Pertwee era is the exception in its first three years. Usually, the aliens have arrived on Earth and their invasion is underway before the Doctor gets involved.
You know, I have totally forgotten why we are discussing this on this thread…
🙂
26 July 2013 at 16:39 #14455‘Asylum of the Daleks‘ is repeated tonight at 7.25pm on BBC 3.
26 July 2013 at 16:47 #14456Anonymous @
@htpbdet and @arkleseizure — the thing that always got me about the Dalek Invasion of Earth is how thwarting one frankly insane plan in a mine in Bedfordshire somehow led to the entire occupation of Earth falling apart. I always felt it should have ended more with the Daleks fatally weakened and the humans just galvanised to begin the fight to reclaim Earth.
26 July 2013 at 16:55 #1445726 July 2013 at 23:00 #14491Just got a catalogue in from the Lakeland kitchenware company, they’ve got a few accessories for anyone planning a themed party in November – TARDIS icecubes anyone? Makes me wish my family and friends were Whovians, so that I had an excuse to make a Dalek cake – still, there’s hope yet for the 4 and 6 year olds…
http://www.lakeland.co.uk/brands/doctor-who?intcmp=INTSRCH:doctorwho
Tiddler
26 July 2013 at 23:02 #14492I had a lovely experience this afternoon. At the art museum with my daughter we encountered an interactive installation full of pennies (600,000 to be exact). As might be expected, it had a steady stream of kids playing with it. While exploring it with my kid, a boy somewhere between 8-10 years of age sat down next to us and told me he liked my shirt (“You never forget your first doctor“). I asked him what he liked about the show, and he said, “Doctor Three is my favorite, with Four as my second favorite.” It shocked me to find out he’s never seen AG Who, only the BG episodes on Netflix (he wishes Netflix had more).
We bonded over our Pertwee love. He likes Daleks and wishes his sister wasn’t so scared of the monsters (she’s 5) so that he could watch with her. He also really likes the Master, but his mom doesn’t, so he doesn’t get to see those episodes as often. I was delighted by the whole thing. Those parents are doing it right!
28 July 2013 at 14:54 #1454728 July 2013 at 14:55 #14548It’s not really news, so I’ll post this here. It’s more of an “after-event” thing for the SDCC appearance, as Matt Smith turns up on the Craig Ferguson show (who deserves some kind of award for shameless promotion of Doctor Who on a rival American Network). Quite fun.
28 July 2013 at 15:50 #14551That was great. And @ardaraith, seeing Matt with an attractive haircut makes me doubly rue the fringe the Doctor sported. He’s much better looking out of the guise of the Doctor!
29 July 2013 at 11:38 #1456529 July 2013 at 11:43 #14566@curvedspace – this is where we’ll have to disagree, I guess. 🙂 I like Matt’s floppy hair as the Doctor.
29 July 2013 at 11:46 #14567@htpbdet – that is indeed an interesting poll – almost 3/4 of the respondents prefer AG Who. I wonder, though, who actually took part in the poll, and I’d guess it’s people that joined the show when I did in 2005.
29 July 2013 at 11:55 #14568@htpbdet and @Shazzbot — interesting results. But these things are very changeable. Interesting to see however how favourable the McCoy era is now remembered though.
But unfair to lump all the 60s stuff into the black and white era though. There’s a world of difference between Verity Lambert’s and Innes Lloyd’s version of the programme, …
29 July 2013 at 12:08 #14569Yes, very true re Lambert and Lloyd.
I find it interesting that the BW era is not last! I imagine not that many voters would have been there for the long haul.
Very interesting, as you say that McCoy is so highly regarded.
And I find it quite surprising that RTD is regarded so far ahead of SM – I thought it would be much closer than that.
29 July 2013 at 12:14 #14570@jimthefish @htpbdet @Shazzbot
Did you see the what do fans want to see in Series 8 ? (a link from the bottom of the page you posted). Very odd result, but I assume that was the way they asked the question.
Nick
29 July 2013 at 12:25 #14571I noticed the RTD point as well. It actually doesn’t surprise me that much. I think RTD era was more OTT in many ways and that probably appeals to a younger audience slightly more than SM where I’d say the stories/characters probably need a slightly older audience to fully appreciate them. To this, I also think the general audience prefers David Tennant more than either Matt Smith or Chris Eccleston for that matter. To top it off, the DT/Billie Piper series 2 represents a high water mark for AG Who in terms of public awareness of the show as well.
Nick
29 July 2013 at 12:26 #14572You mean this:
1. The return of River Song (25.9%)
2. Two-part stories (20.1%)
3. Series arc (11.9%)
4. An older Doctor (11.7%)
5. The return of Jenny, Vastra and Strax (7.4%)
6. Some female writers (7.3%)
7. A second companion (4.3%)
8. Classic monsters (4.2%)
9. A younger Doctor (3.7%)
10. Stand-alone stories (3.5%)29 July 2013 at 12:27 #1457329 July 2013 at 12:34 #14574I guess one person’s OTT is another person’s “fully appreciate”.
Doctor Who is an uneven palette – always was and always will be (if it is to continue). What one person likes another doesn’t. That’s cool.
I was surprised because usually the incumbent wins in polls of this type. RTD did not just win but romped home.
Personally, I much prefer the RTD era , with all of its flaws and self-indulgences, to the SM era, with all of its flaws and self-indulgences. The Tennant/Donna season is far and away my favourite season since Rose.
One day, when you have time on your hands, I’d love to see your analysis of what makes RTD more OTT than SM. I am sure there is a good blog topic in that.
🙂
29 July 2013 at 12:39 #14575OK, I have been lurking on the sidelines for a while, but I feel the need to come in and say that these sort of polls annoy me no end!
They take absolutely no account of context. Will a 60 year old answer the same way as Linda Lee? Well, no.
I hate to say this, but…WHO CARES about whether X% felt this or Y% felt that? I not want to put Dr Who on a pedestal with…let’s say…(since it has a Dr Who connection)…Vincent Van Gogh, but would we really take seriously a poll that asked “who was best…Van Gogh or Banksy?”
Come on…let’s get back to the important stuff…bonkers theorising!
And, for what it’s worth, I think Verity Lambert Who was fabulous and so is Moffat Who. But…so what?
Anyway, back to bonkers theorising…
29 July 2013 at 12:53 #14576@blenkinsopthebrave — agree wholeheartedly but with regards to theorising, we’re kind of running on empty here. (Come on, Mr Moffat, throw us a bone for god’s sake….)
With regards to the poll, as @htpbdet says, Who is a pretty broad church and these things are kind of cyclical. I’ve seen the Pertwee era held up as the golden age at one point but now it’s stock is kind of on the slide.
With regards to RTD, these days I find that an alarming amount of it has very little rewatch value and despite having all the box sets, I rarely revisit them. There are some beltingly good eps in there but there’s an awful lot of ‘meh’ too — and even some ‘cringe’. And I even find Doc 10 a bit one-notey and schtickey compared to 11. I loved Tennant at the time but for me Smith has completely blown him out of the water and I’m much more likely to be rewatching series 5-7 these days than any of those that precede it.
29 July 2013 at 12:54 #14577Well maybe I should have used another word. Some of the things (2 part stories, series arc, stand alone stories, classic monsters) are (well virtually) a given, so its hard for me to imagine voting for the obvious. Also voting for any of these options is a bit more of a passive approach (and around 40 % of the voters did just that). I thought that to be odd, but the odd part is as much (I guess) in the options given.
Nick
29 July 2013 at 12:59 #14578RTD cringe value. I had that at the time all too often, but I put that down to my age and my preference for good story telling over OTT dramatic endings and squeee elements :). For me SM is better, but the show isn’t aimed at me !
Cheers
Nick
29 July 2013 at 13:16 #14579I fully admit OTT is my take and not everyone’s for sure. On the episode scoring I took part in between series 2 to 4 I was consistently scoring lower than average (2 or 3 out of 5, verse an average of 4 or better). I gave up after the Other Doctor, which I thought was a good story with a very poor ending (something my Brother and his pre-teen kids agreed with). I couldn’t reconcile the apparent majority view that most of these stories were almost equally as good as each other at 4/5 with what I saw on screen. There were good stories, even some brilliant stories, but some dross as well.
Nick
29 July 2013 at 13:52 #14580One of the things that interests me – greatly, as it happens – is how the passage of time can affect your view of eras of Doctor Who. At least for me.
For reasons I have discussed elsewhere, my initial reaction to Pertwee was not warm – but these days, I have a much higher regard for that time. I think I like McCoy more now than I did at transmission and I think I like Eccelstone slightly less now than I did at transmission. I definitely like Tom Baker and Peter Davison less now than at transmission because I find their lows harder to endure than I originally did. With Hartnell, Troughton, Colin Baker and Tennant, my views now reflect almost precisely the views I held at transmission – I disliked C Baker enormously and still do and the other three I have never not liked, even though each, undeniably, has dud stories.
There are many reasons for this, of course, and my reasons will never be the same as anyone else’s.
But I never found anything to cringe at during the RTD era – laugh at, laugh with, sure – it was the ride which was exhilarating. That said, The Next Doctor is definitely a low point…
Of course, other people loathed some of what RTD did – and that is completely fine. But like him or loathe him, you were never unsure of what his Doctor Who would be – enormously varied.
29 July 2013 at 14:33 #14581You’re absolutely right time does change your perception. I find the RTD less objectionable now than I did at the time, although I really must get round to rewatching them all to see whether my initial impressions have changed. There was quite a lot I enjoyed at the time for sure, its just that I found that the climax of some of the stories (and especially the story arc) too unbelievably simple for me to be really satisfied.
Like you, I never enjoyed watching Colin Baker at work. I think (now) that there probably was a good concept hidden somewhere in his performance that might have actually worked if they had lost the clown suit and played down the outright nastiness. Nothing ever made me cringe as much as I did watching Twin Dilemma and yet there are still Colin Baker stories I rather liked (even on a rewatch years later).
I have less to say about Hartnell and Troughton as I only saw them on DVD (apart from An Earthly Child and the Krotons which I saw on repeat in the 1980s) and I think its harder for me to put them into their time. I don’t have very clear memories of Pertwee anymore (I was between 5 and 9) although I know I enjoyed him as much as Tom Baker. I thought Tom Baker was brilliant as a 10/12 year old, but that didn’t stop me really hating his obvious lack of interest in season 17 (1979) (Creature from the Pit to Horns of Nimon), which resulted my giving a miss to The Leisure Hive and Meglos to watch Buck Rogers in the 25 Century on ITV instead. The only time I’ve actually strayed from the show. I couldn’t resist going back to Who though.
I have always been quite neutral on Peter Davison even though I rather liked most of his stories. I was surprised to like Sylvester McCoy as I rather expected not to. I think he needed another couple of years at least as did Chris Eccleston. It the biggest shame in AG Who we didn’t get to see at least another year of Chris to see how he would have developed his character. I currently prefer Matt Smith over David Tennant, but I think that is as much a reaction against the whole Doctor/Rose arc in series 2 to 4 as anything else. Both have been excellent really.
The target novelisations were also very important for me. I’m not sure I’d class myself as a fan if I hadn’t read them as a child.
Nick
29 July 2013 at 19:22 #14587Like @blenkinsopthebrave I’ve been lurking for a few weeks as I’m a bit busy. No Qantas Club lounge excuse alas, just snowed under at work. Also I’m behind in my homework – still not watched the McCoy story *stay behind after school young chickenelly*.
To put my fourpenneth in re: @htpbdet‘s comments about initial/lasting impressions of the various Doctors, as I’ve mentioned ad infinitum, I only saw the original series once (minus the odd repeat on BBC4). I have virtually no contemporary memory of Pertwee, however I certainly knew who he was when he popped up as Worzel Gummidge.
Tom Baker is the one I remembered the best, but his larger than life personality I’m afraid affected my impression of Davison. Am I right in thinking in the first episode after regeneration he’s meant to be a bit wan and weak? Unfortunately that’s the lasting impression his whole era had on me, but perhaps I stopped watching it so often as Tom was no longer in it.
On the other hand, my lasting impression of Colin Baker’s era was of someone a bit superior, bossy and cold. From what other posters have commented, this is probably quite accurate.
Perhaps a Davison story next for a rewatch? Or a nice Douglas Adams’ story with Tom.
29 July 2013 at 22:19 #14590A cautionary tale for whoever is the next Doctor
29 July 2013 at 22:31 #14591@pedant – I think Wil Wheaton needs to turn our own (copyright @scaryb) A Raging Sense of Entitlement (ARSE) trope to his advantage.
In fact, it needs to get out there as a major internet meme, NOW. Because what Wil described with those autograph-hounds – the running after, the screaming, the ‘I’ve been waiting all day so you had better pay attention to me!’ business – it’s bloody scary. And the sooner ARSE becomes something Wil and his ilk can refer to as shorthand for ‘Don’t you EVER dare separate me from my child in public again!’, the better.
29 July 2013 at 22:49 #1459329 July 2013 at 23:43 #14594@htpbdet – like, I’m on Twitter! haw haw haw.
I’ll leave that to the less-Luddite contingent here – surely, there are people who can disseminate ARSE and its implied empowerment message to everyone who has had to write what Wil Wheaton did in his message linked to by @pedant above?
30 July 2013 at 17:51 #14611please allow @Shazzbot to take your ARSE to the world…
so to speak….
You all have my full permission to legitimise/meme/tweet whatever ARSE you like. Tho I resent being attached so closely to them haha); and to be fair @jimthefish came up with the phrase, I only abbrviated 😉
30 July 2013 at 19:02 #14613@scaryb —
Just noticed in the newsagents that that ‘quality’ magazine Chat has the front page headline ‘Gagged and axed to death just so psycho could watch Doctor Who’.
Now, that must surely be the ultimate expression of Arse right there….
2 August 2013 at 14:48 #14854600 Doctor Who fans “sing” the theme song
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lqboehjtOgThis is what cats being strangled sounds like…
2 August 2013 at 15:02 #14858https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaxQ5nA8hjE
Dalek got balls…
2 August 2013 at 15:27 #14865@wolfweed – whilst I really want to snark at the Doctor Who Themetune Singers in your post 14854, I can imagine myself there (after a few refreshing beverages!) and lustily ‘ooh-ooh’ ing along with the crowd.
Now, that straw ‘n steel Dalek in your post 14858 is just plain cool.
2 August 2013 at 15:35 #148663 August 2013 at 00:24 #149294 August 2013 at 01:20 #15023Oh hello. I was looking at the forums wondering which one to post on first. I was reading the discriptions of each one and saw this one said if your a new User pop in and say hello. So here I am saying ello
4 August 2013 at 01:27 #15025Hello @drtennant – welcome to our lovely site, and indeed to our comfy sofa.
Please have a nosey around all of the forum topics, and the blogs. You’ll soon see what we’re all about.
Do you have any bonkers theories of your own?
4 August 2013 at 01:34 #15026@thommck – that was brill! Loved this especially:
Mr Mugabe emerged as the frontrunner in the last fortnight after a number of other contenders were ruled out: Edward Snowden because of travel commitments, Nelson Mandela due to health issues and James Corden due to decades of vote rigging and sustained human rights abuses.
4 August 2013 at 01:38 #15027Hat-tip to @bluesqueakpip for this:
4 August 2013 at 03:56 #15031Well I was watching Season 1 Episode 2 The End of the World and when I saw The Face of Boa again and I remember how he was brought back in Season 2 Episode 2 New Earth then again in the episode where Martha and good old #10 are visiting the place where the rescue all the people in the cars (can’t rememeber the episode but is season 3) Martha get’s kidnapped and The Doctor goes through all the cars to save her The Face of Hoe says You Are Not Alone leading up to the Master’s big reveal but after his confrentation they reveal the Face of Hoe was Captain Jack Harkness Who was in Season 1 Episode 6 and an episode of Season 3. So I said to myself “Well they must have this show pretty much set out don’t they.” Then I thought of the whole River Song character that started in Season 4 I believe the episode was called The Library then stretched out through out season 5 and 6. So The Doctor could have breen in the show all this time. Also I was watching this video nonlinear called “The 11th Doctor regenerates into the 12” when I was watching fan made 8-9 regenerations and in the video it shows the wear 11 is “killed” on the beach but before he’s shot again it cuts to when 10 sends his unfinished regeneration into his cut off hand (which is another thing that started in season 2 found it’s way into 3 and had a big part in 4) and in the comments said about how river gave him the rest of bee’s so maybe after his 13th he’ll have a 14th or maybe he could even degenerate. And sorry my reply to so long I need to do something with my mom.
4 August 2013 at 05:36 #15034Sorry I ment you guys I typed it on my kindle fire and it auto corrected to toy and I thought I ment two
4 August 2013 at 08:32 #15036Hi, DrTennant. Thanks for taking the time to introduce yourself the same day you joined.
Do you happen to live in the USA like me? (Just a guess, based on the time of your posts. Did you know that when it’s midnight here in California it’s 8 a.m. in Greenwich in the UK?)
The forum was started by some Doctor Who fans who had been commenting on a blog on the British newspaper The Guardian. It’s been around for less than a year, but already has members all over the world. There are even some (living in Europe),for whom English is a second language. As far as I know, we don’t have any Oods or Slitheens registered. Yet.
You’ll find that some members, like @Shazzbot, didn’t get into Who until it started again in 2005, with Christopher Eccleston as the Ninth Doctor. Other members have grown up with Doctor Who through the earlier shows, audio books, and Doctor Who novels. The people who post here got their start in both “BG” and “AG” — before the gap when Who was off TV and after the gap. True blue Who fans got through the years from 1989-2005 with tapes of the old shows, and new stories in books, comics, audio tapes and The Doctor Who Magazine.
BBC didn’t realize that Doctor Who would be such a hit, and some of the shows with the First and Second Doctor were not saved.
One of our members, @htpbdet, was lucky enough to have seen those episodes when they were first shown on TV. He’s written about each of the different doctors. And each post also tells us what was going on in his life during each Doctor’s time. He talks from time-to-time about his nephews, too …… Hmm. I wonder if you’re the same age as they are? The initials in his name are the initials of his favorite doctors. You’ll be happy to know that the last T is for Tennant. 🙂 Take a look at The Faces of the Doctor blog if you want to see what he’s written.
My niece, who just finished her first year of college, is a big fan of “Nu Who.” (What the folks here call AG Who.) She’s shown me some great Tumblr and YouTube videos. Looks like you’re doing that, too.
Have you had a chance to check out the Fan Creativity section yet? There’s a lot of cool stuff over there. BYOBT. Bring your own bow tie. Bow ties are still cool, at least until December.
In fact, don’t be surprised if one of the moderators, like @Shazzbot, @phaseshift, @jimthefish, or @craig, moves your post #15033 over to the Fan Creativity Thread.
I loved loved loved loved your first clip — the Red Noses Day (I think it’s a big fundraising for charity thing in the UK) sketch with David Tennant and Catherine Tate “learning” Shakespeare.
I had never seen the second clip — the Doctor Who v. Doc Brown (Back to the Future) Historic Rap Battle — before. While I enjoyed it, I’m not sure whether the entire clip should be posted here. Certainly not without a NSFWOSC (Not Safe For Work Or Small Children) warning for the portion after 0:50. Rapping rhymes for hex, Lex, and Mex, and Dalek rays below the Doctor’s hearts may be a bit much for this forum. I really *did* like the first 50 seconds, though. Great rap about wibbley-wobbley, timey-wimey, etc.
As you keep reading the posts here, you’ll find a lot of people talking about how Steven Moffat has really planned a lot of things out way ahead of time, and has planted clues in episodes which will blow your mind a few years later once they are all tied up. Just like you pointed out in your post about The Face of Boe, River Song, and other AG story lines.
BTW, you *are* not alone. I didn’t remember the name of the episode set in the 51st century with Martha and 10 and all that traffic and the wonderful, wonderful, wonderful cat/human family with the adorable kittens, either. I had to look it up on Wikipedia. <<big face palm!>> It’s Gridlock. How could I forget a title like that? I live in LA, after all. :/ Actually, I use Wikipedia and the Tardis Data Core on-line a lot. I look up things I’ve forgotten, read about episodes which were lost … with 50 years of Who, there’s a lot to absorb!
Welcome again, DrTennant. As Eleven said, “Stick around.”
TardisBlue
PS. I hope you don’t mind me going on and on and on and on like this. I was named after my great-aunt, who was a schoolteacher. It shows, doesn’t it? Sorry. Sometimes I just can’t help myself.
.
4 August 2013 at 08:49 #15037@drtennant. Ooops. I wrote the post just above here specifically for you, and I forgot to put the @ before DrTennant.
Erm, is the universe telling me something? That I’m beginning to sound like Polonius?* **
* Polonius is the guy your namesake David Tennant stabbed to death — by mistake, but he still ended up just as dead as if Tennant intended to kill him– when Tennant was starring in Hamlet.
** Polonius famously told his son that “brevity is the soul of wit,” and then proceeded to talk and talk and talk and …… you guessed it, talk some more. Just like I seem to be doing.
Wait, wait, David! It’s me hiding behind that curtain. Not the guy you’re convinced killed your Dad and married your mother. Don’t stab me! I’ll really die! I gave all my remaining regenerations to River Song! Oi! Ouch!
Thump.
The rest is The Silence.
4 August 2013 at 12:11 #15044Hi Everyone <waves>
Been away from internetland, but have missed you all, even those who are wrong 😉
Hope to start contributing more shortly
4 August 2013 at 17:10 #15095@tardisblue I do indeed live in USA and I myself got into Doctor Who this year from three things.
1. I follow a girl on twitter her User name is @DarthTash and she post a lot of stuff relating to Doctor Who.
2. Being a big fan of Epic Rap Battles of History I saw the Doc Brown vs Doctor Who
3. Doctor Who is referenced a lot on a show called The Big Bang Theory which I am quit fond of from having a TARDIS photo booth at a halloween party to the people on the show watching Doctor Who
After hearing all this stuff about this show I declared I needed to watch it so I was. wondering through Netflix the one day and saw the Classic Doctor Who and Doctor
Who. Classic only has a single 4-6 part story for season 1-18 and the revived show has all of seasons 1-6 (which I have watched all of and am waiting for them to add season 7) -
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