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7 November 2015 at 21:19 #46539
Well – that was super.
Peter Capaldi’s great speech over the two boxes caused a random fly to get into my eye.
And the part when the Doctor said he’d already had to go through this fourteen times, erasing human and Zygon memories each time give me legitimate chills – the power and the burden of being a Time Lord. How fragile peace is. And what a very volatile situation he’s got going on on his beloved earth. Part of his penance for the Time War, I know (as the Zygon’s planet was destroyed in it).
The Zygons still have to disguise themselves as humans to avoid xenophobia, and although clearly some are happy with their assimilation, the conundrum that they are required to live by subterfuge rather than contribute as themselves remains – a complexity at the heart of multiculturalism.
I am more than happy to have politically and morally complex stories like this, reminiscent of some in the Old Who back catalog, back on the cards.
Jenna Coleman as Zygella (she does look a little bit like a young Nigella) packed a glittering, furious punch with those eyes – some excellent acting.
It does seem the Doctor doesn’t quite trust her – why did he make her step inside the TARDIS before he spoke to Osgood at the last?
Osgood’s arc was fantastic – her chosen hybrid identity definitely deserves the Doctor’s fandom (a really sweet touch, and something of an apology methinks, for her earliest depiction and her death a la Missy).
A glimpse of Hartnell’s face on a safe in the Black Archive? A further sign that we are heading, the long way round, for Gallifrey?
Tarot card-wise, I rather thought of Osgood as “The Lovers” this week, because the card is also known as “The Twins” in some decks, being ruled by the star-sign Gemini.
31 October 2015 at 21:52 #45996I read your impassioned plea in the pub just before the episode, and really smiled afterwards – crikey you must be psychic 🙂
Meanwhile, The Times should get a grip, the lines about bombing not being a solution because it radicalises could apply to Blair as much to the recent Tory ordered British drone strikes in Syria.
The Zygon fanatics had a suspiciously Isis-like flag, huh.
It wasn’t subtle, but for the young audience, lots to think get thinking about, about “us” and “them”, assimilation and identity, which is great.
It was great to see Osgood again, and she got a much more respectful treatment this time (I really hated the brutality of her end at Missy’s hands).
Another hybrid cropping up – a theme developing.
Tarot card-wise I thought Osgood might represent Temperance (the figure in the card pours two liquids together as a sign of mixing opposites to find balance). And Temperance in the Rider Waite is depicted as a hermaphrodite (a hybrid) angel.
Bit of a naughty adult joke about tickling the Zygon protuberances.
The Twelfth Doctor’s guitar is officially “his thing”.
26 October 2015 at 21:50 #45619Hello old fish friend.
Glad you are on board with the tarot theme. It was @kharis who first spotted it on here in relation to this series, although @phaseshift had been talking about Who and the tarot in the previous one, but, I am a believer.
As you say, there may not be a supreme coherence to it, it’s just a piece of symbolic play. BUT, I think, it’s likely that a judgement, of some sorts, is upcoming, and no doubt “the lovers” will make an appearance. It could also point eventually to the rediscovery of Gallifrey, as at last the Fool reenters the “World” at the end of the journey through the major arcana.
It’s a great idea on the part of production, the Doctor on the Fool’s journey through the universe, to create a puzzle for those watching who like such things, without disturbing the waters of the surface narrative too much, for those who hate them.
@pedant I quite like @pendant – an alter (or indeed altar) ego for dressy occasions 🙂
25 October 2015 at 13:06 #45452Give it up for Catherine Tregenna, the first woman to get to write a script for Who in quite some time. Given her Torchwood history, I too was pleased to get a Captain Jack mention!
I’m still not a fan of the historical earth-history settings for Who, but the Dick Turpin-esque scenario made for some pretty natty costumery.
This was, of course, primarily a psychological episode, where Ashildr mirrors and refracts the Doctor and he, her. As narrative mirroring is one of the best tools in the television writer’s armory and a technique that, once you understand it, pays dividends to the audience in the deeper appreciation of stories, I really liked the way Tregenna set out this parallel for the younger audience.
Firstly, I enjoyed that Ashildr treated the Doctor as her “sidekick” in a deliberate taste-of-your-own-medicine twist. I agree @bluesqueakpip it’s highly likely Missy has paid Ashildr a visit.
Maisie Williams is fantastic in this part. Her screen presence just knocks my socks off and I think we are witnessing the beginnings of one of our great British actresses. She will be the silver-haired Judi Dench of the future. But, there’s a whole lot of wild ride in between to come.
When we saw Ashildr weeping before the cradles of her dead children, the Doctor’s cot of course leapt (as intended) to mind. The Doctor’s lost children are still very much in the narrative mind of the arc…
Ashildr’s deliberate “forgetting” of her name, and her alias “Me” of course parallel’s the Doctor’s own adoption of a generic title “”the Doctor”.
This is a story which really asks – is the Doctor right here? And comes down on the side of – not so much. Making someone functionally immortal and then refusing to be responsible for them – leaving them to take the slow path on earth, because you’re too frightened of the effect they might have on you should you travel together. Missy has a lot to work with, here.
On the tarot card front, I think we can afford to squee – a lion (in the form of the alien) and the pub where the Doctor and Ashildr have their farewell drinks has the very prominent shot of a sign of two swans.
The lion is the eighth major arcana card, strength, in the Rider Waite deck (which, for the adult audience, is called “lust” in the Crowley-Harris deck). The card depicts a woman with a lion. She is taming it. This is interpreted in various allegorical ways as the need to control one’s passions or one’s power.
A story of the Fool’s (Doctor’s) journey through the tarot at the point he meets the maiden and the lion can be found here:
http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/learn/meanings/strength.shtml
So by virtue of mirroring, this is a story about the Doctor’s need to control his own power, his awareness that he does so with the help of his “mayfly” companions (which of course puts him in the place of “gods” in the Shakespeare quote – “As flies to wanton boys are we to the gods..”) and the fact that the amount of power he has causes him, sometimes, to screw up.
As for the swans – they are traditionally a symbol of love because of their tendency to pair-bond for life. The Empress card in the Crowley deck is depicted with a swan. She is said to represent love, fertility, creation…
Of course, the Doctor has created Ashildr – she is his “child” in a sense – more echoes of the Doctor’s lost children on Gallifrey…
The Doc reignites compassion in Ashildr, a valuable lesson from an immortal parent to an immortal child, but then he buggers off again and leaves her again. She, standing in her own power, tells him that she will be his conscience, keeping an eye on his treatment of the “mayflies” he chooses to travel with.
The Doctor has created an immortal (and perhaps unstable) conscience for himself!
The child imagery and swan (love) imagery point to a story about the Doctor’s kids/ love upcoming.
18 October 2015 at 18:30 #45043@plainolddave
US season = UK series (but, to be fair, we do also use “season” sometimes, esp for the US shows we watch).
US series = UK television show
So, in Brit, Doctor Who is a television show and we are currently watching series nine, of New Who (since the Russel T Davies revival).
The corporation issue is interesting, because I think it is more widely known (outside the legal community) that corporations in the US are granted “corporate personhood” which gives them some of the legal rights and responsibilities enjoyed by persons. In the UK (I’m not a lawyer) we do have something similar. Under the 1998 Human Rights Act, corporations in the UK can claim the right to a fair trial, the right to privacy, freedom of expression and property also.
Maybe the stronger sense of a corporation as having “corporate personhood” in the US accounts for the preference to refer to “it” rather than the “they” preferred by the Brits, the latter of which reflects to a greater degree the collective nature of the entity.
Brit vs US English is always fun. You know, your usage (assuming you are indeed from the US!) of the word “awesome” is creeping over here now. The Brits used to reserve the use of that word virtually for something of the order of magnitude of an act of God (the storm was awesome in its power) but in US English it can be used for the most mundane of pleasant experiences (awesome cup of coffee).
So it goes…
18 October 2015 at 15:07 #45028Well, it’s not really Doctor Who news, but it’s Peter Capaldi news.
Shell just (temporarily at least) surrendered their plans to drill for oil in the Arctic and Greenpeace have released a video detailing the three year global campaign to stop them, narrated by…. our own Peter Capaldi:
18 October 2015 at 13:31 #45020My bad. The pedantry crown is still yours!
@scaryb – oh, I did not twig the music quotes in the baby speak until you mentioned it – nice.
@denvaldron Maybe the electric eels was another music gag?
There was a punk-ish band called the Electric Eels with a Viking connection! This (from the Wikipedia page):
“Eventually the electric eels got a gig at a Cleveland venue which would support original music, The Viking Saloon’s “Special Extermination Night” 22 December 1974 with Rocket from the Tombs and Mirrors.<sup class=”noprint Inline-Template Template-Fact”>[<i><span title=”This claim needs references to reliable sources. (December 2014)”>citation needed</span></i>]</sup> This gig marked the public start of a new and unique Cleveland punk rock scene.<sup class=”noprint Inline-Template Template-Fact”>[<i><span title=”This claim needs references to reliable sources. (December 2014)”>citation needed</span></i>]</sup> However the repeat event in January 1975 would see the eels banned from the last bar that would have them, due to their use on stage of a gas-powered lawnmower.”
Fits nicely with our old punk rock Doctor 🙂
Agreed – the Doc definitely was having some kind of deja vu, or deja forward, in relation to Ashildr’s face.
I love Maisie Williams. I thinks she’s shaping up to be a great actress. I love her striking face with those strong eyebrows, and I look forward to watching her career unfold. I think she’d make a great TARDIS companion, perhaps as another character than Ashildr, later down the line, and hope we get her.
18 October 2015 at 11:55 #45014No worries 🙂 Great minds and all that…
I loved your thought that we are watching Who episodes because the Doctor (or maybe one of his companions) has uploaded their live recordings of his adventures to the “Galactic Hub”. Maybe that’s why this Doc breaks the fourth wall and talks “to camera”! Very meta indeed.
Missy chooses Clara; River guides Clara to become the Claricles; Clara convinces the Time Lords to give the Doctor new regenerations; Clara is now, i presume, some kind of hybrid having been in the Dalek shell when the regeneration energy entered all the daleks; Ashildr is a hybrid, immortal, a storyteller.
I know – perhaps Ashildr is the clue though which the Doc twigs the nature of Clara.
I too am wondering, as I think @bluesqueakpip and others were last week, about a big causal loop re Clara. That line of hers; “I was born to save the Doctor”, has always struck me as odd. I wonder if she was engineered to save the Doctor. How could, after all, a purely human girl jump into a Time Lord’s time stream and get fragmented into living parts whose mission, in each case, was to keep the Doctor safe?
Maybe River and Missy conspired, over some time, to engineer Clara to save the Doctor. If so, the Doctor is going to be very, very cross when he finds out…
You made me laugh – all good points, but are you trying to steal @pedant‘s moniker?
Check this out – a find from an archaeological dig in 2009 in the north of Scotland which suggests the Vikings may actually indeed have worn horned helmets, as per the Victorian fancy. Of course, I don’t know if the Doctor planted this article, just recently, having meddled with time more than he should have done again…
17 October 2015 at 22:44 #44959On another note – I forgot to look for Tarot cards whilst watching, but now I think about it, we had a one of swords/ a two of swords. The Doctor and Clara were the only ones to put their hands up when he was asking the remaining, un-harvested villagers, who among them had ever fought with a sword.
Two of swords is a card of choice – the Rider Waite deck features a young blindfolded woman with crossed swords – at a crossroads. Certainly could fit with Clara.
I also wondered about the big (illusory) snake monster. Because just last episodes, we had the big snake monster painting, curled around a ship, and now here, manifested, is a big snake monster. Is that a coincidence, or is there something running from episode to episode in the visuals? An idea, gradually becoming material?
As for hybrids, that also seems to be running as a theme, given that the doctor created hybrid Time Lord/ Daleks on Skaro, and frankly, we know Davros has survived, because the old bugger always does, so that hybridisation is out there, somewhere…
17 October 2015 at 22:27 #44957Good thinking Batman.
Being hybridised with a species as war-hungry as the Mire doesn’t seem like a good idea at all.
The Doctor pondering hybrids made me wonder, again, about Clara’s parentage. River was a hybrid, as being conceived in the TARDIS added some Time Lord to her DNA.
I realise I will not let go of this 🙂 The truth is I am still suffering River Song withdrawal symptoms. I must get the Big Finish stories devoted to her, coming soon.
17 October 2015 at 22:13 #44953The earth history-trips are never my favourites, it must be said. I prefer being off-world!
I liked Capaldi’s outfit however, with the checkered trousers – a sort of classic Who look mixed with a grubby punkish T-shirt. It suited him.
My sense was, that the Doctor wasn’t in the least surprised when Maisie William’s character died after her storytelling efforts in the helmet. I figured that he knew that her human brain might (more likely than not) burn out, but it was worth the risk to save the town.
When he saw Clara looking at him with her big eyes and dead Maisie W in her arms, however, he felt he’d made the wrong choice. So, then he over-compensated, by giving Maisie the ill-advised immortality chip, spurred on by his revelation about his face back from the Fires of Pompeii.
The gag about the testosterone quaffing Mire, and how the universe was “full of testosterone”, whilst, sure, it made me smile, disappointed me too. I really hate it when Doctor Who plays to gender stereotypes, in either direction. I want it to educate kids, and look forward, not feed them the old crap.
Is it me, or was it a bit of an ouch! moment for Clara, when the Doctor explained to her that now “practically immortal” Maisie W might meet someone she wanted to keep around, forever, so that’s why he’d given her the extra chip. It becomes apparent (surely to Clara) that the Doc could have given the chip to her. He may not want to lose her with one of his hearts, but the other seems ever more ready to let her go.
I found the Doctor recognising his reflection and the flash-back to the Eleventh Doc and Donna a bit too spelled out. Whenever I get that feeling, I remind myself the show is written for kids too. But the truth is, I don’t think Doctor Who ever talked down to the child audience, when I was watching it as a nipper. Sometimes, unfortunately (as in this instance) now I feel it does.
Despite some gripes, I particularly enjoyed Capaldi’s performance as ever. His excitement over the electric eels was most endearing, and I am looking forward to finding out just how hard it all comes back to bite the Doctor on the bottom next week.
15 October 2015 at 21:57 #44841Wow good sofa talk going on!
@spud – I too wondered if Malcolm Tucker would get in the way of the connection _ but after the script nod (child friendly version – of shuttity up up up in the Robin of Sherwood episode I think – they let it lie. I did enjoy some of the pre show mashups of the Doc telling dalek’s to F off tho 🙂
<span style=”line-height: 1.5;”>On the subject of Doctors, I would love to have the gap between War Doc and Eccleston Doc filled in – a great space for fan-fic – I was always a bit shocked that the Doc took Rose to watch the end of the earth – so freaking dark for a young thing –  but with those billions of Gallfreyan kids on his conscience – the latter narrative now fills in the perspective nicely. </span>
I don’t mind a bit of romance for the Doc but definitely think it could be pretty sleazy pretty quickly if it was every companion. I found Eleven and River more compelling that Ten and Rose and hated Eleven’s comment about Clara being an enigma wrapped in a mystery wrapped in a skirt that’s a little bit too tight – ewww – and also bad storytelling  – show, not tell!
11 October 2015 at 19:33 #44503For River Song fans – she’s getting some adventures of her own on Big Finish – yay!
I think I’ll have to acquire them:
http://www.bigfinish.com/releases/v/the-diary-of-river-song-1313?range=113
11 October 2015 at 16:14 #44489Yes, you’re right (re “on” rather than “in”) the tomb.
That doesn’t disrupt the narrative parallel though – the Doctor is positioned in the place of the Fisher King.
There is no reason for calling the warrior-beastie “The Fisher King” other than the (Arthurian) resonances it has a mirror/ parallel for the Doctor.
@thebrainofmoffat In terms of where I think the tarot/ Arthurian legend stuff is going – I’d say – Gallifrey!
11 October 2015 at 00:50 #44446@phaseshift <waves>
Ah well, I’m sure @kharis can say more, but Jesse Weston in her book From Ritual to Romance apparently made a link between the myth of the Fisher King and the Tarot.
This book influenced T.S. Eliot, who used the Fisher King theme and Tarot images in The Wasteland (his own notes to the poem explicated somewhat) in the passage where “Madame Sosotris” does a card reading for the protagonist.
The Hanged Man is one of the cards which appears in the reading!
Here’s a link to someone who has pulled out the cards they think the poem alludes to in entirety – http://www.crossroadstarot.com/thewastelandandtarot.htm
The Hanged Man points to rebirth and regeneration, so I wonder if we are heading for the theme that the Doctor was the “killer of his own kind” once, but now he is the one tasked to bring renewal to Gallifrey. His new burden is to be the King Arthur who will revive Albion (as it were) BUT, as above, he’s bound to be tortured with a bit of a crushing moral dilemma over that task.
Is it better for the universe, he’ll be wondering, if Gallifrey stays lost…
Oh, and as Clara appeared in the explicit pose of The Hanged Man, I think that could point to her Time Lord bloodline (and possibly her direct familial connection with the Doc).
10 October 2015 at 22:32 #44439Thinking about it – the Doctor and the Fisher King are very much paralleled in the episode – explicitly so because they both occupy the tomb.
The Fisher King is lost and trying to send a signal to its people, so they can come (back) into this part of the universe and enslave things.
This is the Doctor’s dilemma, and the reason he’s taking the (really) long way round. He’s happy that “Gallifrey Falls – No More” BUT given his people’s history during the Time War (which the Fisher King pointedly points out) the Doc’s on the horns of a helluva moral quandry about whether it’s right for the state of things, to try and fetch them back from that bubble universe.
10 October 2015 at 22:16 #44435Well done to all who spotted the Tivoli last week and to all who concluded the Doc himself would be in the tomb.
The Fisher King itself was quite a nice concoction of bone and hoof. It knew the Doctor was a Time Lord and more specifically, who the Doctor was himself, apparently. Presumably because that alien race have a psychic ability? It looked as if it was skull sniffing him.
I am not sure what happened to Smith Doctor’s plan to erase himself from history. It seems to have hit the skids back when Mr. Clever the cyber-controller pointed out that you would still be able to figure him out from the hole he’d left. Ah well…
The title, “Before the Flood” places the Doctor in the role of God (again) as he was indeed the one who’d caused the flood, by exploding the dam. That fits quite nicely with the sea-monster painting interpreted as Leviathan, as it was God who would eventually slay that monster (with a sword). The Doctor was playing God in his Beethoven paradox too, apparently creating the symphonies of the great man himself (perhaps!).
The TARDIS was very unhappy all episode, clanging her cloister bell over the time paradox.
Yes @pedant and @bluesqueakpip Clara does seem to be a similar sort of paradox herself. “I was born to save the Doctor” has always struck me not simply as an after-rationalization of her decision to jump into his time-stream to thwart (somehow) the Great Intelligence, but likely to be literally true. Somehow, by someone, her birth was engineered to save the Doctor. My money is on River, especially because of that damn leaf connection, keeping her sweetie safe from beyond the grave of the Library. She pretty much persuaded Clara to jump into the Doctor’s tomb-stream at Trenzalore.
Love the electric guitar myself, not so keen on the sonic glasses.
7 October 2015 at 15:47 #44270By all means post away re your theory that Clara is the chamelion-arched Master/ Missy!
I think Missy’s behaviour towards Clara (calling her a puppy) rather belies that. Although I do think that Clara may well have Time Lord blood (esp be a descendant of the Doctor/ River).
That Wetherspoons beer is clearly putting some excellent fuel in your tank!
I like the idea of the Doctor torn between Clara and the TARDIS. And yes, I too thought it could well be the Doc in the porcelain coffin.
A bloke who likes a skirt.. well that could be the Master/Missy, as a Time Lord/Lady. Although I don’t think Missy will show up in this story.
Now we just have to fit the big snake-monster into the picture.
I’d enjoy a story (I don’t think it will be this one) where the “monster” turns out to have been vastly misjudged and is in fact, all out to help. I supposed they played with the Ood in that way somewhat. But yes, it would be great if big snake-monster opened its scary jaws, blew fire, and then started philosophizing on the need for eternal galactic peace 🙂
I clearly need a drink myself…
6 October 2015 at 21:20 #44207@bluesqueakpip – Leviathan also works better because of the sword tie-in – so a big snake alien which burns out eyes and slithered it’s way into human religious texts…
<span style=”line-height: 1.5;”>Â </span>
6 October 2015 at 19:54 #44200I don’t think non-multiple heads is a deal-breaker. Christian art depicts the Leviathan as single-headed sometimes and the long description of Leviathan in Job seems to be about a one-headed sea-serpent.
The crosses definitely seem to link to the “temple” tho…
I’d love to think there is a serpent theme this season @craig – pointing us towards some form of betrayal – either Missy betrays the Doctor, or tries to manipulate Clara into doing so… Or, perhaps the Valeyard is coming, and the Great serpent/ Satan is actually the Doctor-as-Valeyard himself!
6 October 2015 at 19:19 #44197@bluesqueakpip – Art criticism challenge!
Well the crosses take us to the Bible and the two dragon-like creatures  therein are Leviathan and Satan –
Leviathan the “twisted serpent” and “dragon who lives in the sea” is to be punished by the mighty sword of God… (Isiah)
We’ve somewhat moved away from the idea of the Doc as a lonely God since Tennant…
Satan is a dragon inRevelations
So maybe there is a forsaken Time Lord in the porcelain tomb, a dodgy one…
<span style=”line-height: 1.5;”>so …</span>
<span style=”line-height: 1.5;”>SO</span>
5 October 2015 at 22:04 #44140@craig – thanks for the extra re Cass – nice!
@fivefaces Yes it’s interesting the cloister bell sounded – the old girl seems to do that when a paradox threatens  –  something Timelordy would be great, as the Doc does have Gallifrey to find.
5 October 2015 at 20:12 #44129Hmm – and just to add that I am really appreciating last season for the way the psychological damage of the encounter with the Moment lingers with Capaldi Doctor – he’s going through the process of accepting what he’d repressed for so long – that the War Doctor was himself – that he was a soldier (officer class – Danny really nails that one) and ‘sometimes the only choices you have are bad ones, but you still have to choose’…
5 October 2015 at 20:00 #44128@mudlark and @ichabod – the Tivoli detective work is great – hats off to all.
I’m sure the Doc has figured this out too, that the beings are not really ghosts – my guess is that someone on the crew is nefariously involved and he didn’t want to let them know he was on the right track…
I’m re-watching S8 and enjoying Capaldi’s early performance very much – just watching the Orient Express in space – the mummy isn’t a ghost either, although that’s what everyone thought and neither were the Gelf way back.. Alien tech… <taps nose>
5 October 2015 at 15:47 #44109@blenkinsopthebrave @purofilion I Â like the drawing on Slavic water spirit mythology – definitely the porcelain coffin/ porcelain cup suggests a nod to that.
@missy In terms of this vs last season – it’s a bit early to say. Something I didn’t enjoy were the random one off kids who went on adventures with Clara  – Courteney in Kill The Moon and earlier in S7 with Artic and Angle in Nightmare in Silver – not because of the kids pe se but no lasting emotional connection was forged.
I believed in Smith Doctor’s attachments to Amy and River absolutely – both the Clara-Smith and Clara-Capaldi connections leave me colder but I’m enjoying the mercurial and sometimes apparently callous Capaldi Doc across both his seasons thus far – and I prefer two partners – more time to get your teeth into the story…
4 October 2015 at 23:16 #44063JUST dropping back in to say that if the Doc is Merlin then of course Gallifrey is the Isle of Avalon and it’s his job to bring it back – one day…
@kharis yes your tarot references theme definitely has legs – I don’t want the full spoilery grand theory tho! But will be looking out for major and minor arcana…
It will be very Moffat, grande troll that he is, to suggest further that Missy and the Doc were once “the lovers” 🙂
4 October 2015 at 10:34 #44017@phaseshift – hmm yes – the sonic glasses are suspicious – it does seem as if the doc has adopted them for a purpose – does he suspect that, as Clara was sent his way by Missy he may need to ‘shield his eyes’ from her?
Of course the sonic will be back _ the glasses are definitely there for some particular reason!
Shades guard against brightness – the Doc needs to see past the shiny outside, of Clara or ANother?
3 October 2015 at 23:55 #44000I like the Narina link _ Clark seduced by the space equivalent of Turkish delight? Could be that Missy offers to restore Danny Pink to her…
I thought the Doctor’s turn of phrase – that he wanted to “kiss it to death” – it being something both evil and ingenious was interesting – perhaps that’s how he feels about Missy sometimes!
3 October 2015 at 22:38 #43994A Merlin arc would be wonderful – and it occurs to me that Missy as Nimue, with Clara as her unwitting pawn, is a better fit than Clara herself.
We explicitly see that Missy is in some ways the Doctor’s “apprentice” in The Magician’s Apprentice – Clara points out that Missy got her vortex-manipulator triggered by enemy fire idea from the Doctor.
Plus, looking back on the previous season, Missy refers to the Doctor as her “boyfriend” (not to his face, but to the mechanoid dude in the second episode, as she collects him for her “heaven”).
A big Missy betrayal down the line then…
3 October 2015 at 22:05 #43989I wondered whether the deaf captain was also an audience clue – i.e. – don’t just listen to what people are saying (which may misdirect) – watch what they are doing.
Is Clara somehow “the enemy inside a friend”?
3 October 2015 at 22:02 #43988Never saw “Battlefield” – just read the synopsis. Hmmn, a reference to that for fans, perhaps, but given that we’ve had an episode titled “The Magician’s Apprentice”, another titled “The Witch’s Familiar” and now a sword under a lake reference which links the Doctor with Merlin (as he’s already been titled “Magician”) I like to hope something arc-y is going on.
3 October 2015 at 21:49 #43984Running with the tarot theme:
Death – the card is also one of resurrection (regeneration?)
The ace of swords – the power of the intellect (very Doctor).
On an aside, my one bum note for the episode was, yet another, blushing fan-girl representation. I didn’t appreciate it in Osgood’s characterisation and I don’t appreciate it here either. Why do male writers feel the need to perpetually regurgitate this image of fandom as simpering female idiocy for laughs? The same writers are all fanboys themselves – laugh at that and suck it!
3 October 2015 at 21:29 #43981I really enjoyed this – love a two-parter. The classic ingredients – an enclosed ship, a crew in danger, running, corridors, being chased, a clock ticking, a dodgy corporation… were assembled to create genuine suspense.
The Doctor’s cue cards were a nice touch, as was his clockwork squirrel. But “the cards” were also a link to the Tarot card theme ongoing – the dark, the sword, the temple, the forgotten…
A sword under a lake immediately made me think of Arthurian legend, and the Lady of the Lake. The Doctor as Merlin (the Magician) and Clara as Nimue (who was Merlin’s apprentice of course) gave me pause – I hope she doesn’t betray him somewhere down the line…
So could it be the Doctor’s own body in the tomb?
3 October 2015 at 18:52 #43966@pedant @bluesqueakpip @phaseshift
yes _ a product replacement for the Sarah June adventures rather than a tonal one given the different age target as you say.
The Fades was wonderful so if it’s half as good it will be doing well.
i keep meaning to give RTD’s Wizards vs Aliens a proper look _ I’ve seen snippets…
2 October 2015 at 15:26 #43940@pedant I’ve just seen the Guardian article – a replacement for the Sarah Jane Adventures, after a suitable pause following Elizabeth Sladen’s untimely demise.
I only dropped into the Sarah Jane Adventures occasionally, so it will be interesting to see how they frame this as belonging to the Who universe. Clara teaches at Coal Hill school – so perhaps she’ll be in it?!
Maybe Danny Pink comes back from the dead and they teach there together, and Clara does turn out to be the old Doc’s great granddaughter…
2 October 2015 at 12:19 #43939Yes, I like your thoughts on the Doctor broadcasting re Clara as a warning to Missy to keep her safe as much as to the Daleks. As for the Doctor without hope… “He’ll burn us all”, I just got my copy of the Day of the Doctor and watched if for the first time since the anniversary. Capaldi Doctor’s face appears in there, from the future, as all the incarnations work together to shift Gallifrey into its pocket universe.
So yes, despite the relief that “Gallifrey Falls – No More”, Moffat hasn’t, as we speculated he might, ditched the guilt which weighed heavily on the Ecclestone, Tenant and Smith Doctors. The Time War is still echoing. I know you want it to be over @bluesqueakpip 🙂 but, the story waiting in the wings, of the search for Gallifrey and its eventual (no doubt messy) return, is too good to let go of IMHO, and that contains a necessary link to the Time War, given it’s the reason the Time Lord planet is in a bubble universe in the first place.
Capaldi Doctor is clearly still weighed down with guilt (“Am I a good man?”). I still regret so very much that Ecclestone didn’t want to be in the 50th – such a shame! I can understand not wanting his Doctor to be the War Doctor (clearly the original plan) but it would have resonated more, if it had been him. Ah well..
@denvaldron and @jphamlore – I’m definitely up for old Omega making a re-appearance.
30 September 2015 at 22:35 #43859@bendubz11 I love it! I’m somewhat disillusioned in terms of Moffat’s puzzle creation however.
The potential to create wonderful puzzles, for the clue minded, which the audience doesn’t have to follow to enjoy the show, has been so tantalizingly almost there during his reign, but a lot of it has been left by the wayside thanks to his greater love for teasing this part of his audience with blind alleys and non-sequiturs.
To be fair, some of it has come through – Melody Pond as River Song, the pregnant/not-pregnant TARDIS reading of Amy pointing to ganger Amy.
Unfortunately, a certain segment of the audience was very vocal in online spaces that count about Moffat’s “over complicated-ness” and so, he retreated somewhat from the puzzle aspects of his arcs. Yes, Clara herself was a puzzle, as the “impossible girl”, but I don’t think this worked as well, because it detracted from the character formation of the companion for some time.
It may well be that Clara is still the puzzle, because her connection to the Ponds was so highlighted earlier on (her knowledge that the word which would call the Doctor down from his blue funk after River’s death, was “Pond”, the leaf connection – she blew in on one, River’s name and identity was finally discovered by her parents on a leaf…). I hope there turns out to be a familial connection – it would neatly tie up Moffat’s reign.
27 September 2015 at 22:15 #43612@kharis – if it’s a theory, it’s not a spoiler (unless it relies on key spoiler information to work) so post away!
27 September 2015 at 22:02 #43608@phaseshift and @kharis
Ooh here we go – I love a good tarot card theory.
Yes, I remember your illustrated post about Missy as Death back when now @phaseshift , when she was teleporting people to her own “afterlife” last season, as part of her cyber-army plot.
You’re right @kharis – Clara as the Hanged (Wo)Man card was super obvious! Hung in the pose by Missy as she was – how did I not get that!?
That fits with your “tough love” apprenticeship (and hence with the “witch’s familiar” of the title) because this card may be associated with acquiring wisdom by trial (a la Odin). However, the Hanged Man card is also a person in the position of birth (a rebirth, a state of “about to be born”) so that fits with various theories of Clara as the child/ descendant of the Doctor/ River/ Missy.
I don’t necessarily think her association with the Hanged Man means she is going to die, because although the card is associated with sacrifice it is often understood as a card of rebirth. If she turns out to have Time Lord blood she might regenerate!
Of course, the pose may also be seen (in its older origins, rather than in more contemporary understandings of the deck) as symbolising the traitor (hung for their sins). So that’s a bit worrying – will she betray the Doctor, or be manipulated into doing so by Missy?
27 September 2015 at 19:15 #43579@kharis Oh I love the idea that Moff is taking us on a Major Arcana journey this season – if so then we’ve had the Magician (also the Doctor) the High Priestess (“the witch” aka Missy) and the Emperor (Davros) which means we should be heading for the Hierophant, the Lovers and the Chariot next.
Alas I doubt Moff is being that systematic about it (which is a shame) but a TARDIS-centric episode for the Chariot would be great.
Do post your theory!
27 September 2015 at 18:11 #43571@kharis What tarot correlation? (and yay for hippy upbringings!)
27 September 2015 at 18:08 #43570Well having watched the two-parter, the fullness of the story reveals a couple of things more clearly.
I enjoyed the time-loop paradox too @mudlark. The Doctor must always have saved Davros, because Davros lives, and because he tells the Doctor (before we see him go back and save the boy) that he has been unable to eliminate the design flaws of mercy and care for their creator completely from his daleks (it was always already there).
Davros was playing a super massive game of reverse psychology. He tells his daleks in advance that he’s going to use the Doctor’s regeneration energy to super-power them, and save himself from death, but he can’t get that regeneration energy by force – he has to get it by persuasion.
Getting one of his daleks to kill Clara (as far as he knew, Missy being the wild card) seems a bit counter-intuitive – all the Doctor’s enemies know he loves his companions! But, having hurt and angered him, Davros then taunts the Doctor to admit that “compassion is wrong”, banking on reverse-psychology to do the trick, and thus re-inforce the Doctor’s belief in compassion and mercy. Davros then manages to pull a tear or two out of the old leathery eye-sockets and get the Doctor to activate his compassion, in order to grant a dying wish to see one last sunset. Hey presto – regeneration energy – so far so machievellian – points to Davros!
BUT, even more so, given that, as soon as Davros sees the Doctor’s new face (which he remarks on) he must realise it was the Doctor who saved him as a boy. So, he knows he has to somehow ensure the Doctor does it again. He knows the Doctor hasn’t, yet, because he makes a big deal of the Doctor feeling guilt and shame (about abandoning the boy Davros). Therefore that speech asking the Doctor whether he (Davros) is a good man and teasing the Doctor that he’s a bad Doctor, takes on a double-whammy. Davros needs to get hold of that regeneration energy (his original plan) AND get the Doctor to go back in time and save him as a boy.
The Doctor, on the other hand, answers Davros’ message, out of guilt, out of compassion, because he abandoned the boy Davros on a battle-field (having not yet got to the point in his time-line when he saves the boy Davros) BUT he goes knowing it’s probably a trap.
He sends his last will and testament to Missy, knowing that will actually activate her affection for him enough to help out. So, he deliberately puts Clara for safekeeping into Missy’s hands. The bender (guitar etc.) was all part of his plan to get Missy on board. Somewhere, for reasons, the Doctor trusts Missy to keep Clara safe. Which, indeed, she does, by a whisker… Missy relies, I think at the last, on the fact that the Doctor will figure out that Clara is trapped in that dalek casing. The Doctor is angry with her because she played it so close to the wire, to make a selfish emotional point to him about herself (as being a friend inside an enemy). I love her snarky last line to him when he tells her to run – that it’s him who’s always running away.
The Doctor, the whole time he is riffing with Davros about compassion, knows Davros is trying to get him to give up his regeneration energy. But, despite the bluff and counter-bluff, the emotional connection they have in that exchange is, for both of them, surprising and contains moments of honesty (as you say @mudlark).
So Davros gets his boy-life saved but the price he has to accept is a touch of mercy in his perfect killing machines, and the Doctor gets to add a pinch of compassion to those killing machines, even if they must be created.
And Missy gets to know that, when the chips are really down and the Doctor thinks he’s going to his death, she’s the one he sends his last will and testament to. There’s a little bit of redemption for each – Doctor, Davros and Master – in the episode.
Hurrah for two-parters!
27 September 2015 at 09:35 #43526@bluesqueakpip I can’t wait for River’s return!
Kingston will be on fire with Capaldi. I can imagine this Doctor being both deeply snippy with her and actually very tender and overwhelmed to see her again.
If we get Michelle Gomez at the same time, it will be a treat!
Yes, nice idea that she’s the warrior hybrid in question. Daleks fear her – we know that from the Big Bang two-parter. There’s the potential for a really wonderful story (which touches on immigrant discourses and “racial purity narratives below the surface) in which Gallifrey is back and some of the Time Lords are incandescent with fury at the Doctor for diluting the “purity” of Time Lord genetics.
But, it is the Christmas episode, so more likely to be a heart-warming tale of family reunion than quite the fable I’m envisioning!
27 September 2015 at 09:23 #43525Yes, @lisa , @pedant is also the one who is not a fish 🙂
On your point @pedant, about the meaning of Maisie’ William’s line (first trailer for the series above) “What took you so long, old man?” to which he replied “You?” She could, of course, be anyone from his past at all. I did wonder, other Time Lord/ Lady of long acquaintance, teasing him with her young regenerated self. But of course “old man” could also suggest a familial relationship, as we’ve been discussing on the Witch’s Familiar thread with respect to Clara.
Family is a recurring theme in Moffat’s work, so I will eat a jellied eel if the Clara story doesn’t involve the Doctor’s old family from Gallifrey days before it’s over. I really hope I’m right – eels don’t sound very tasty!
26 September 2015 at 22:41 #43481@bluesqueakpip A good thing 🙂 I’d be disappointed if Clara’s discovery of the Doctor’s cot in the TARDIS way back when was just a throw-a-way gimmick, rather than a narrative thread. But Clara was very much associated with being a Pond earlier on (the blowing in on a leaf, the knowing the magic word “Pond”, River’s interesting psychic connection with her).
Maybe the Doctor, River and Missy had a three-way relationship at one time, and three-way reproduction works perfectly well for Time Lords.
The Doctor deliberately creating his own form of “sunrise” by channelling his regeneration energy to raise an army of zombie dalek slime, using compassion as a double bluff, was definitely the act of someone who picks dangerous people as frenemies for a reason.
26 September 2015 at 22:01 #43476Ha ha – the advert pasted into @danmartin ‘s recap over on The Grauniad is “Boss – for men”. Capaldi’s Doctor would be so wonderfully, witheringly rude about it. “Smells like what? Boss? The boss of Who, exactly?” No doubt some dalekian tracker algorithm placed it there.
26 September 2015 at 21:51 #43475I had Paul Simon’s “Still Crazy After All These Years” playing in my head as Davros and the Doctor got the giggles together (really loved that part). Then Davro’s line “Am I a good man?” held up a mirror, re the Doctor’s own line to Clara last series and the chill was back.
If Who ever does a musical episode (oh go on, please) Davros and the Doc just have to rock out to “Let’s do the Time Warp Again”.
The sweep and scope of time, such that Davros and the Doctor have a relationship, of sorts, over the bodies of their countless war dead, just as Missy and the Doctor also have a friendship, of sorts, despite the Master’s nefarious trail of destruction, was really stirred into the mix by a lovely trio of actors. Agree @scaryb and @phaseshift the acting was top.
As for Missy’s line about giving Clara to the Doctor, as an enemy inside a friend, a friend inside an enemy… that really does sound like an adult joke which would indeed indicate Clara is some kind of Master/Doctor progeny. We’ve seen her with one parent as an “apprentice”, then with the other as a “familiar”. Remember all that name speculation about Clara, way back when. Oswald means “divine ruler” and all that…? Perhaps she’s going to end up a the President of New Gallifrey…
26 September 2015 at 21:08 #43459The freaky time echo of Oswin dalek in Clara dalek was really nice. The Doctor must come across that sort of disconcerting time-wrinkle all the time, and it was fun for us to be able to experience one too.
Missy’s daughter and the Doctor’s gift on the occasion of… was definitely an intriguing tidbit @ardaraith ! The complexity of their long relationship being woven in this iteration is full of possibilities. I love it. Michelle Gomez is a treat in every scene.
Still, revolting dalek drains or not (and I’m as fond of zombie dalek slime as the next person) there is now a somewhat regenerated Davros spinning his wheels out there, in possession of the knowledge that Gallifrey is still out there too. So, despite the addition of pinch of compassion, the embers of the Time War smoulder on.
22 September 2015 at 00:28 #43192Oh dear, it’s rather late for a snifter of the hard stuff but much needed – I’ve been on Twitter reading too many #baeofpigs #piggate jokes. Sometimes life on earth is more surreal than the darkest corners of the universe 🙂
20 September 2015 at 19:11 #43073The Doctor’s “frenemy” relationship with the Master/ Missy is a tough one for Clara (and us, quite recently, thanks to the deaths of Osgood and Danny).
The Doctor wonders whether he’s a “good man”. Thanks to Missy, no wonder Clara isn’t quite sure. His relationship with the Master/ Missy means a certain level of toleration for the many deaths Missy has quite maliciously caused along the way, and so brings Time Lord/ human relationships as between Gods and mayflies, rather sharply into focus. I like it!
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