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    Kharis @replies

    @missy I noticed.  (:

    Kharis @replies

    Found this podcast:

    This guy Richard is pretty funny.


    Kharis @replies

    Two new suspicious members. Going by Leigh and Nani.  I think they are just spammers and most likely need an ejection from our pocket universe.

    I hope you all are enjoying the shelter in place and staying safe. – Kharis

    Kharis @replies

    I’m glad to see the show picking up the pace from the last season.

    It’s been hard to hang on for some of us.

    Staying awake has been half the battle, but this episode was okay, no coffee required.

    Kharis @replies

    I can see just coming on the Forum simply to complain is frowned upon by some members, so maybe I should end this post here, LOL!

    My esteemed and serene Emperor @craig I have returned from the void and see you have kept your Council in session with dignity in your pocket universe at the end of the internet.

    Welcome New Voices: @indigo-1 @peter3110 you’ll get no judgment from me.

    Complaining about our favorite show is just part of being a member of a long tradition of crazy fans going back to the 60’s who enjoy debate, dialogue and YES just venting when our favorite show feels empty, or worse we feel shut out by our inability to connect, understand or even just lose ourselves in our other world – our sometimes more real world.  A loss of quality or content is a loss, and I hear you and sympathize. Heck, I can write a book complaining about the loss of Murray Gold alone, so please get out the tiny violins playing the saddest song. It’s rare for a fan to like every episode, season, etc.

    Go ahead vent, even virtually cry, some of us are lurking, listening and sympathizing.




    Kharis @replies

    @bluesqueakpip Possibilities? One is that Grace was one of the people running from the Stenza, and had hidden on Earth. This could explain Graham’s unexpected recovery from both cancer and exposure to vacuum (she loved him, and so saved his life with advanced healing tech that’s still inside him), Ryan’s Dad’s not turning up (he either knows to stay clear, or is Grace’s stepson) and the aliens turning up in Sheffield (they know there’s an escapee, but can’t spot the right one).

    Okay, officially accepted headcanon for me!  Good theorizing!

    Kharis @replies


    Yes, I thought the Doctor was referring to dealing with the loss and moving on at first too, but with the hints she is forgetting something?  It is fun to start theorizing again!

    Kharis @replies

    @ichabod Totally see what you are saying and agree.

    Like you, at the end of the day, I just want to love it.  I’m hoping as the season progresses I learn to love it.

    Kharis @replies

    Definitely better than the first episode, in almost every way.

    I’m loving the story arc being laid out, plenty to chew on there!  The ‘Timeless Child’ was tantalizing, and certainly a little ominous. I’m hoping that Chibnall doesn’t dive too far into the Doctor’s origin story, mostly because an air of mystery there is half the Doctor’s charm.  It sounds like the floating spello-tape/howler was hinting at the Doctor’s childhood, but I think it would be far more interesting if it was Susan or Clara/Charlotte.  I don’t think it’s Ashildr, because I still believe she is the “Nightmare Child” not the “Timeless Child” and I hope it’s not Jenny because I find that whole story very unappealing and hoping we don’t run into her again.

    Whittaker is doing a good job, and I think like Capaldi she is rightfully channeling all the Doctor’s incarnations.  The Doctor is supposed to be the same person at his core, so having all the personalities show up makes sense.

    The music is still very cliche sci-fi, nothing visceral or inspiring, but it works as background music, and I’m sure some would argue that you shouldn’t even notice the music if it’s doing its job properly. For me, I love composers like Murray Gold and John Williams because I feel they improve every episode/movie and I like to notice and enjoy the music.  On the other hand, I enjoyed the opening credit’s music, it had a nice retro feel to it.  I’ve liked other versions better, but this one was still very good.

    I’m glad that the Stenza have more to them since last week’s episode really concerned me with the boring characterization and black & white bad guy nonsense.

    The Tardis moment was a relief, and it started to feel like I was actually watching Doctor Who and not a new show called Doctor Who.  Not my favorite Tardis, but like a favorite Doctor, that depends on personal taste, so it could be the best Tardis ever for someone.  In my opinion, there was never a bad Tardis or second-rate Doctor, it’s just that different personalities and styles appeal to different people.  That’s why the lists online of best Doctor, or best Tardis 1 -10 is ridiculous, that’s just THAT PARTICULAR writer’s list, not hard facts. Basically, there is a Tardis and a Doctor for everyone, and this isn’t the one I’d like to open the door to as the Doctor.  Capaldi’s library Tardis or Smith’s steampunk Tardis would have suited me just fine.

    Overall, this episode gave me a glimmer of hope that Doctor Who didn’t become Torchwood or worse.  It did have a Firefly flavor, but that was fun for a single episode and worked with the Whoverse.  Firefly and Doctor Who have a similar vibe, so it’s tolerable. I was going to give the show a break for a while after last week’s episode, but now I may hang in there. Not an episode that would make my top twenty, even top fifty, but I liked it, and it worked, thank goodness.



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    @notime Interesting transport theory.  Seems you have that “theories more insane” moto down already!  Cheers. (:

    Kharis @replies

    @tempusfugit Another link for classic

    I laughed so hard my kids came in to see if I was okay. (:

    Kharis @replies

    @craig Thank you Worthy and Esteemed Emperor, that was freaking hilarious!

    Kharis @replies

    @tempusfugit Couldn’t agree more about Rose and the companions.  Amy was hard for me when she acted spoiled or was inconsiderate to Rory, so I get it.  Graham was the easiest for me in this episode to have a slight connection to, mostly because he was clearly the most developed character, besides his wife. Still, I just couldn’t connect as I did in the past.

    Huge fan of the 8th Doctor in the audios and even held out a little hope that 12 would regenerate into the 8th since BBC kept promising this regeneration would be “very different” which of course turned out to just mean a gender change.  Now I’m glad it didn’t happen because if they ever do bring back Paul McGann with the promise in ‘Day of the Doctor’ to “…revisit some of the old faces” he deserves great writing, music and art direction this time.  He already did his time in a poorly done Doctor Who, so it would have been very unfair to have to go through it again.  Whittaker has a tough job ahead of her in my opinion, like McGann, she is in charge of holding it all together with her charisma.


    Kharis @replies

    @pedant To respond to your comment, “But it would be as well to remember that Chibnall is as capable of pulling the fans’ legs as Moffat. We have a grieving cancer survivor, a troubled teen with a disability and a probationary cop who feels she is capable of more – and an AWOL Tardis”  Yes, but I personally felt no connection to any of the characters and we all know she’s going to find her TARDIS so I’m also not invested in that either.  My problem is that it was flat for me and predictable.

    @thane16 @pedant The bad guy didn’t interest me was part of the problem, it’s very hard to suspend my belief if the character feels like a stock bad guy.  My kids weren’t scared of the gross teeth guy, it was the ball on the train, the waiting for something bad to happen, the constant darkness and death. Which is fine, because Doctor Who is scary, it’s been scaring my kids since they could watch it, but the dark scenes and the deaths kept coming with nothing for them to enjoy.  It was like ‘Sleep No More’ where it felt like we never got a break.  My older son got bored during the very dragged out yard scene, went to go get more enchiladas came back and was annoyed nothing had really happened, just a dragged out suspense scene.  For me, it felt like Torchwood or the show ‘Arrow’ which is not very Doctor Who.  Arrow is a popular show, I’ll watch it, not a favorite, but the characters are fun, but those dragged out nighttime scenes with steam and heavy equipment must be aimed at a particular audience, and I’m certainly not it.  What I meant by “too adult ” is that most adults enjoy shows with lots of violence and death.  Kids, on the other hand, seem to only like to be scared if there is a lot of whimsical things going on, or charismatic characters, or humor or something interesting.  It was dark and heavy, but not visceral or thought-provoking enough to justify the constant dark and deaths in my opinion.  Weeping Angels and Daleks scare my kids to death, but they are fascinated at the same time.  BTW, the teeth for me were just gross, not scary.

    I didn’t hate ‘Dinosaurs on a Spaceship’ it just wasn’t one of the great episodes of the Smith era and one of the few I didn’t bother with a rewatch. As I said above, I loved the characters in ‘Dinosaurs on a Spaceship’ and was already invested in them so that really helped me get through it, plus dinosaurs on a spaceship is a pretty cool idea.  ’42’ on the other hand was just awful, and on my don’t watch list with ‘Love and Monsters’, ‘Sleep No More’ and “The Movie”  Being young when I first saw “The Movie” I had almost the exact same reaction as my kids to Whittaker’s first episode, and everyone around me back then was also excited and praising it after, so I kept my feelings to myself and focused on the fact I liked the new Doctor.  I didn’t want my kids to feel they needed to do that for me, so I asked them what they felt before I said a word of my own feelings to them.  Their views were very interesting, but unfortunately, the only positives were that they liked the Doctor, the homemade sonic and that in the end the character that kept trying to ride the bike, everything else was a harsher review than mine. My second grader was surprisingly the toughest critic: he said it reminded him of a long car ride at night with nothing to do.

    Speaking of ‘The Movie” hats off to Whittaker for pulling a Paul McGann and being very Doctor in what did not feel like Doctor Who to me.  I do feel awkward writing any of this because it is mostly negative and I am a true blue fan. Like everyone, I really want it to go well and would love to join in with the people who are excited and happy, but it would be disingenuous. I’m sincerely happy to see so many friends here posting happy reviews and all the positive comments everywhere.  Glad so many got the feels and the positive comments mean that the show will survive, so I’m happy for everyone, truly.

    And Puro is right, she is the expert on music, and Pedant is right in that I am not qualified to really have anything important to say on the music.  I loved Murray Gold right from the start, even the “truly dreadful parody of 60s caper” style of ‘Rose’ was fun for me and helped draw me into the story.  The new composer shouldn’t feel too bad about my comments, I’m clearly not an expert.  Puro mentioned that the music was complicated to write and she seems to think it had promise, and she knows what she is talking about. My husband and kids are also far from experts, so our not connecting to it should be of little concern to the composer. I’m a choreographer that can’t play chopsticks, so anything I wrote about the new composition can be chopped up to nothing, because I really wouldn’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings, and figured the actual composers don’t read these comments.  If I could edit and erase I would, but you can’t edit on this site.

    I did like some of the writing for the Doctor (feel like I need to be positive) and agree that one-liners like “I’m not yet who I am.” were nice.

    Kharis @replies

    @missy LOL, true, but like with most of my Leo friends I’m certainly glad you say what you think and don’t go with the sheep.

    Lions are not sheep, thank goodness.  (:

    Kharis @replies

    @tempusfugit Agree with every word; well put.

    Murray Gold is a master, a truly gifted composer who will go down as a musical legend, so I didn’t expect the music to rise to his caliber, but to replace him with pure mediocrity?  Same as the art direction, I expected changes, but to turn on Doctor Who and feel like you are watching ‘Arrow’, ‘Torchwood’ or ‘Class’ instead is beyond disappointing.

    Yes, hopefully better next week, at the very least a better storyline and some connection to the characters.

    Kharis @replies

    @missy Leos are awesome!  Every Leo I know shines and tells like it is. (:

    Kharis @replies

    …and sorry for the disjointed writing, as promised I had wine after this episode.  /:

    Kharis @replies

    @notime Sheffield is a steel town and is known for its quality steel. It was fun to see so much of the personality of Sheffield; Chibnall seems like he is alright with getting a sense of place right in his episodes.  The part about the Doctor making her own sonic out of a Sheffield steel knife was my favorite part about the episode. (:

    Kharis @replies

    Okay, just did my read through, and it reinforced why I always post before I read everyone else’s posts because I inevitably feel very bad that everyone else liked it and I went and ripped on the episode.

    Hello everyone! Miss reading your comments, and welcome to all the new additions. (:

    Glad to agree on some of the positive comments. Impressed that Jodie could feel like the Doctor with everything else surrounding her feeling more like ‘Arrow’ or ‘Torchwood’ and not in the slightest like Doctor Who. Hats off to Jodie for bringing a little Matt, David, and Peter to her Doctor so we could connect to her as our beloved Doctor.

    @missrori Agree as usual.

    @bluesqueakpip “Though Graham’s unexpected survival also makes me wonder about Nan; chemotherapy nurse whose patient unexpectedly survives; a son who doesn’t turn up for his mother’s funeral, a grandson who gets targeted by alien tech. Is that the Doctor later going back into Graham’s past? Is it simply that they don’t want to make Ryan’s dad an on-screen character?
    Or something else?”  ….Okay, I’m loving something to chew on, so I’m going to go with “something else” (: Oddly, your take on what might be happening interested me far more than anything in the actual episode.  I have a feeling you would be a better showrunner for my weird personality than Chibnall.

    @thane16  Good evening old friends!  Great to read your comments.  Sorry, I was so harsh on the music, you know how invested I get in the compositions.  Did like the ending retro theme music though, just not the score for the episode itself.


    Kharis @replies

    @ichabod  You now officially get the label of “Great Doctor Who Seer” or maybe you have a TARDIS and already saw episode 1 of the 13th Doctor before we did, because you nailed it a few weeks back:  “Every show a self-contained story” sounds to me like a return to 100% “monster of the week” and no need to bother staying for the end, because there’s no chance of failure, and everyone ends up exactly as they started so the next “self-contained story” can toddle on without any continuity with what came before.” …hit a little too close to home.

    One thing was different from your prediction, and that it, “won’t be the least bit “grown-up” anymore.”  Alas, it was too grown-up for my boys; far too dark, creepy, depressing and gross for them.  The teeth in the skin was just gross, not chilling like Weeping Angels, or creepy like a Dalek, or even scary as hell like a Cyberman, it was just a gross stock bad guy character.  The episode felt more like watching a cross between the DC show ‘Arrow’ and the DW spinoff ‘Class’ to me.

    @tempusfugit It was hard to accept the loss of Capaldi, but as we discussed, it is always hard to move on from a Doctor we connect with, so I appreciate Jodie keeping with the Capaldi vibe the first half of the episode.

    Jodie as the Doctor worked okay, she had the right vibe, but the storyline, art direction, music, and pace left a lot to be desired, and even her performance could not save it for me.

    The music was extremely boring and almost hilarious at its attempts to sound full of suspense.  The new ending credit version of the theme song was good, almost a nod to the original, which was notable.

    About the art direction…did they hire the people from ‘Arrow’ or some American cop show and fire everyone who previously worked on Doctor Who?

    Can’t say I expected much from the storyteller of ’42’ and ‘Dinosaurs on a Spaceship’ and I can’t admit to being a fan of Torchwood, so I wasn’t shocked to be underwhelmed by this episode.  Unfortunately, since I didn’t even have characters I was invested in yet, unlike ‘Dinosaurs on a Spaceship’ which had the advantage that I already adored the characters, I found this to be a very hard episode to get through; painfully boring even.

    I think the worst thing for me as a long time fan is that I just couldn’t connect to this episode at all, nothing was visceral, it was very flat.  Haven’t read any other comments or articles yet because I wanted to add my honest and untainted thoughts before I read this thread through.  Sadly, it just felt like another comic book show or predictable sci-fi.

    For the first time ever it just didn’t feel like Doctor Who to me.

    Kharis @replies

    @missy Yes, @wolfweed was referring to Romana stating on a talk show she was the summer sign of Cancer, which I happen to be too, and Romana is my favorite companion so made me smile.

    Yes, I must agree, Leo’s are the kings and queens for sure.  My sister is a Leo and she never does anything small.  (:

    Kharis @replies

    @missy “What I’ll need is a great deal of willpower – and maybe a bucket!”  LOL!  This truly did make me laugh out loud, thanks, Missy.  (:

    @thane16 How are you both?

    @tempusfugit & @missy  Capaldi was amazing and by far one of the most talented actors the show has ever had.

    It’s especially hard to lose a favorite Doctor to regeneration, it always seems like a death in so many ways.  We are all seriously stoic fans, in reality, considering we have all now mourned 12 Doctors.  The ones we love and personally connect to are the hardest, and Capaldi was that for me.  It just feels a little more tragic to have the trailer for the new Doctor feel so uninspiring with such little hope of making a connection with this Doctor.  The 2nd and 7th Doctor were hard for me to connect with, but I sloshed through it, so I will still watch and keep up, but I really needed a Doctor I could feel inspired and connected to this year, or one that made me smile (11th & 4th) or even just a world I could escape to.  I had the roughest year of my life and I needed that, not another beige, bombastic and predictable world the BBC has created to use as one more tool to manipulate and pacify the sheep.  I feel like the BBC has been whitewashing everything that was once creative, original, thought-provoking or whimsical in a gray version of beige. I needed something to look forward to, and I can’t trick myself into any enthusiasm this time.  I really hope my gut is wrong.


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    wolfweed <span class=”useratname”>@wolfweed  Great video clip of Romana and K-9.  Yes, we Cancer people are the nicest. (:</span>

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    @ichabod “…and that’s Lowest Common Denominator territory: stay bland and perky so as not to upset anybody anywhere, everybody just wants “light entertainment” for their family evenings, and the qualities that made the thing go in the first place get filed down to nothing, in an effort to safeguard a much bigger investment and  a much bigger pay-off.”

    Exactly, well said, but that is why for the first time I’m so nervous to watch the premiere.  I want to like it, but I think I’m going to need a LOT of wine to get into this.

    Kharis @replies

    Welcome, @hiker & @oswald !  (:

    @gamergirlavatar @thane16 @janetteb @missy @ichabod So nice to read all your posts, I also “disappeared for a while” and yes, the limelight moves at the traditional 670616629.3844 per hour for sure, for good and for ill.

    I was feeling pretty lackluster after watching the new trailer, which prompted a sad rewatching of my Capaldi and Smith favorites with ice cream and wine.  Had been hoping the trailer would get me excited, but all it did was make me miss my favorite doctors.


    Kharis @replies


    Yes, it will be delightful to go back through Capaldi’s seasons, especially season 9, ‘Listen’ and ‘The Pilot’ I’m personally eager to revisit.

    Going back through Classic Who also sounds like fun.  I find the classic episodes hard to find, and Google Play (which I use) does not have the best selection.  One of my favorite eras which include the 4th Doctor, Sarah Jane Smith and Romana 2 is probably the hardest to find.  I heard there is an animated version of Shada, but yet to get my hands on it.


    Kharis @replies

    Just spent a lazy afternoon reading this thread from start to finish.  Really enjoyed some of my favorite Forum writers’ contributions.  I’ve been missing the Doctor, especially Capaldi’s Doctor.  Thank you @wolfweed @jimthefish @drben @ichabod @missrori @mudlark @winston @missy @nerys @bluesqeakpip and I really appreciated the new voice of @gamergirlavatar

    Sadly mourning the Capaldi era with a plan to do a full re-watch this week.

    Kharis @replies

    Gatiss wrote ‘Robots of Sherwood’?  I didn’t know that.  Despite popular opinion, I liked that episode.  The rest of his episodes fell pretty flat for me.

    Kharis @replies

    Haven’t read the other posts yet, but will get to that tonight.  That was a great episode!  And of all things, Gatiss wrote it!  Love Gatiss for Sherlock, but his last few episodes of Who, well, I’m not the eloquent writer in this group, so basically forgive my rather base assessment of his last few works: they sucked.   So I was completely surprised by this episode.  It was hilarious, exciting, unexpected and very moving, it had everything; it’s classic Doctor Who.  The character development was out of the park, and for only having one hour to make the audience connect to all the characters, all I can say is “DANG Gatiss, you had this in you all along?” and now I’m a fan.  Officially on board with team Gatiss.  This is definitely one of the best episodes of the season, and the first time since ‘The Pilot’ I plan to actually watch it again, which for me means I really and truly enjoyed it.  Absolutely love the main characters in this.  The Doctor, Missy, Bill and Nordole have great chemistry, can;t we have this quartet for at least one more season?

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    @thane15  Enjoy everything you’re saying about free will and @constance and @missrori I like your theories, it helps justify some of the scenes that annoyed me.  (:

    Yes, I do feel making this particular villain attractive would have certainly helped with the overall theme, a showing of more resistance from humanity would have also given the message more power.

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    @jimthefish Your post #58533 pretty much sums it up for me.

    Like @wolfweed I’m not feeling well today, so my addition to the discussion will be brief.

    All three episodes, but mainly the last two, had a nagging sense of unfulfilled potential.  ‘Extremis’ I truly enjoyed; it had intrigue, humor, and even had some concepts to contemplate, but it it still had that nagging sensation of unfulfilled potential that shadowed all three.

    First of all, the monks were too generic, and I think the theme would have been reinforced more viscerally if they had not made them creepy looking, but attractive.  It’s Doctor Who, so I expect more depth and more originality.

    Second, too many holes in the story to accommodate very generic and predictable actions and characters.  The whole time one could see the potential to convey some very important and thought-provoking themes, but the writers kept choosing to go with the ol’ surprise & cliffhanger, run, shoot, run shoot, bad guy with lightning hands instead.  This kind of action doesn’t end up being exciting anymore, it ends up being very boring to most modern audiences who are oversaturated with this lazy style.

    Last, the whole using his regeneration scene?  What on earth was that for?  If Doctor Who is going to end up being this gimmicky then it has taken a turn towards mediocrity. My suggestion would be to Turn Left.  (;

    On a positive note, Bill, Nardole, Missy and the Doctor did great, despite the poor storyline.  They are talented group with very good chemistry with one another.  It’s going to be hard to replace any of them.

    Kharis @replies

    @jimthefish Yes, I did, and I think the themes being similar over the years have been leading the Doctor to a very important moment, not just Moffat running out of ideas.  It’s as if each lesson, each puzzle, each loss was leading him to this moment.  I wrote at length in several spots on how I see it all tying into themes centering around ‘Silence in the Library’ and on going themes with each companion.  Glad to know someone humored a part of my bonkers theory, thank you. 😊 I thought my post was so laughable it was completely ignored, especially because​ I threw in “old” Who.

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    @tardigrade comment “This is exactly what my mind has the hardest time answering “In fact, if the aliens were looking for a way to take over, what they have learnt is that if you can convince the population that they are living in a simulation that they will kill themselves out of spite. So doing just that might be very counterproductive.” I have a perfectly reasonable answer for any question about this episode…but this one.

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    I don’t think Moffat is just reusing themes, NOT AT ALL, I think he’s purposefully tying them all in for the final.  At same point I think this all goes back to ‘Silence in the Library’ and some of my old posts there predicted something of this nature coming years ago from this episode, like I said years ago “everything goes back to and circles around this episode”I don’t think this is Moffat running out of ideas or themes, I think he’s reinforcing them and reminding us of the lessons the Doctor learned to become the Doctor he is now.  Moffat is reminding us that the lessons he learned have prepared him to be the Doctor that has the wisdom, tools and experience to overcome this complex threat. The proceeding Doctor’s would not have been ready.  Each experience from the Library, the Shard, Santacrab, the Zygon invasion, the losses, basically everything he has gone through, was the perfect prep school.

    I still find it interesting that Clara could always eventually figure out how to control her simulated world, that was her theme, several times, with the Zygons, the mind crabs, (assuming Clara is Charlotte) the Library, the Dalek, etc. Much like Amy’s ability to remember what no other living creature could about the void the crack left. It’s really Clara’s super power.  Aside from that rant, I don’t think any of it has been random or lack of creativity on Moffat’s part, I think he’s just sticking to a very large theme and story arc that centers on his ability to control the simulation, to decide what makes a “being” sentient, and when does one become a “a real boy” much like plastic Rory. The Doctor was warned, taking Clara out of the isolation room would cause cracks in time, so 12 caused the cracks 11 deals with, but that is how 11 learns so many needed lessons to conquer this great and complicated foe. What is River at this point? Just uploaded consiousness, a string of numbers. How does he reconcile this? The themes are the same for reason, because the biggest themes are still unresolved and it will take experience, not bravado, to solve them. The very thing that has always set the Doctor apart from other heroes; he wins through his experience and his mind not violence.

    I think everything is getting tied in, and it’s brilliant.


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    @countscarlioni Maybe it’s the dark guardian controling them?  Always felt the Gaurdian was the Great Intelligence.  His minion the Shadow tried to blow up the universe before.

    Maybe the creature from the Satan Pit is also part of this need to destroy?

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    @thane15 I recently found old Who on a couple of free sites.

    Yes, I also noticed the James Bondesqe music.  Murray Gold knocked it out the park again. He will go down as a great composer of our time someday.  Much Like John Williams because his focus is soundtracks instead of something​ more posh he often isn’t given the credit and fame he deserves.

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    @craig I know you are probably way to busy for this, but thought I’d request anyway: I’d love to see all the fourth Doctor’s episodes listed for comments.  I forgot how much I loved those episodes. 😊

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    Puro, your whole analysis in comment #57812 was very insightful.  @thane15

    Extremis reminded me of the Shadow and his boss the Guardian in the 4th Doctor and Romana’s adventures looking for the keys of time.  I wonder if this is the same shadow group looking for a more failure proof obliteration of the universe since the Doctor thwarted the last attempt.  Random, yes, put just a thought.  Moffat is a huge fan of vintage Who, so there is a chance that he is including old story arcs and villains.  The 4th Doctor has some really great episodes and characters if a person (especially someone my age) can get over the really B grade special effects, cheesy lines that sound like something out of Scooby Doo and the organ music.  The composer Murray Gold adds more to “New” Who then most people realize.

    I wonder of this turn that ‘Extremis’ took is not only tying in everything that has been going on with the Great Intelligence, the Library and this constant theme of reality, and what defines it, and how we control it, but if it is also tying in the Guardians of vintage Who.  Wouldn’t surprise me, I never underestimate Moffat.

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    @missrori  OH!  GOOD!  Back to bonkerizing then, wa, ha, ha!

    Wouldn’t put it past Moffat, one word: Pandorica.  (;

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    @arbutus  That’s how I feel too.

    Hey, we were all right about the vault, it was the most OBVIOUS answer all along.  Was fun to bonkerize in the meantime.

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    @missrori “I’m thinking of his lines in “Deep Breath” about all his bad years and the mistakes he’s made.  He wants to be better than that, and trying so hard…so hard.”  So true, and so sad.  This Doctor really pulls at my heartstrings.

    Kharis @replies

    @bendubz11 Might be more than just an Easter egg, might be a hint about the story arc.

    @whisht@thane15, @pedant, @wolfweed and everyone here, I’m really enjoying reading your posts.   I have so much to comment on and say, which oddly enough leaves me feeling like the Doctor’s comment to the Pope, plus there is so much I wouldn’t no where to start.  Thrilling having something to muse over again.

    Kharis @replies

    @mudlark Your comparison to Plato’s cave allegory is brilliant.

    @steffstaff Wow, great first comment, welcome!

    This episode helps to clarify a lot of things I’ve been thinking since ‘Silence in the Library’ and several other episodes where Moffat keeps bringing us back to this theme.  It’s all very thrilling and tantalizing.   It’s tying in my head canon with ‘Silence in the Library’, ‘Listen’, ‘In the time of Angels’ and oddly enough, ‘The Lodger’ very nicely.

    The writing was excellent, so many good one liners, and concepts.  I thoroughly enjoyed this episode; it was thought provoking, exciting, fun, visually pleasing, and deepened my love of the main characters.  The pace was also good, I didn’t get bored once.

    This is turning out to be a great season.  ‘Extremis’ and the ‘Pilot’ are my personal favorite episodes of the season, but it’s been quality episodes throughout season 10 so far, which makes me very excited for next week.  (:

    Kharis @replies

    @morpho Rembrant

    @mersey and a few other members have a lot of interesting ideas surrounding that.

    Kharis @replies

    @wolfweed Do love the bonkerizing.

    Can’t help but notice that most people on this forum really liked this episode, which makes me feel awkward to admit I didn’t really enjoy it.  I admire the themes and metaphors and the concept of a blind Doctor, but was still struggling to enjoy this episode.

    After reading all the comments on the Forum I feel like a freak to be honest, because I had categorized this episode with ’42’ and ‘Sleep no More’ where I appreciated some of the concepts and creativity, but at the same time was bored out of my mind. ‘Oxygen’ is on my list of 5 Doctor Who episodes I will probably not bother watching again because I’m annoyed I already spent an hour on them.

    Though, very glad other people I respect on this Forum enjoyed it.  It’s always nice to hear rave reviews because it makes me feel secure that the show will have good enough ratings to keep going on into the future.

    Kharis @replies

    idiotsavon Wow, not sure that is bonkers but downright interesting.  It would go with my metacrisis theory, it also helps justify my pipe dream that it’s the 8th Doctor.  (;

    Kharis @replies

    Ahhhh, yeah, this is what I love…keep the bonkers theories going.  (:

    So, my Metacrisis theory, way too crazy?

    @whisht Nice theory.  Alan Moore, ha ha!  Can’t beat that.

    Kharis @replies

    Okay, crazy theory about vault: ME is forever bitter she was made to live forever because of the Doctor’s misguided mercy, so as revenge she gives meta crisis human Doctor 10 her other chip, which means he is forced to outlive Rose which turns him bitter, dangerous and the true Hybrid.  Metacrisis, part human, part time lord and now part Mire would make him the Hybrid, and would explain the Doctor’s fear of the Hybrid.

    So, enjoy my latest craziest “person in the vault playing Fur Elise” theory and please come up theories even more insane then this one.

    Kharis @replies

    @arch Oh! Now that’s a fun theory to chew on. Davros, interesting – sort of has the same feel as Omega in the vault for me; this feeling the Doctor’s mercy is going to cause him a lot of short term trouble.

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