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23 January 2015 at 07:09 #37506
@ichabod. Left hand of darkness is my single favourite book. I was a huge reader of scifi classics like Asimov, but was not aware of any missing female perspective until I read Le Guin. It was a real eye opener, and showed me that there was something unique and important to be said that was not typically said by men. I feel the same way about Margaret Atwood. Thanks for sharing, will get your book.
@janetteb, also thanks. I find the demands of family life and a full time job take up almost all the resources I would like to devote to writing and I become a very selfish person when I need to write! Also spelling schmelling. I like posting here as one does get to waffle a bit, but like trying to get poems on twitter as a kind of challenge
I knew I would regret my fanfic flippancy, but I’ll suck it up in the interests of provoking a good debate 😉 I can be a bit of a snob, probably due to rather rigid ideas of what is correct, and almost invariably find it is a barrier to some sort of development. I’d blame being Scottish, but I’ll get short shrift here 😉
22 January 2015 at 22:23 #37498Thanks for the articulation @pedant 😉 Tend to agree, but again it is all tendencies. I think the main issue with the second type, the Corrector, is that they don’t enjoy writing as a process, just as a way to get stuff out of their heads and onto paper, so don’t get that it is A Good Thing to burn bad ideas or characters or plots.
But that is a thing that can be learnt.
Slash usually equals character contravention for me, if there is no in ‘verse justification, so just doesn’t sit well or convince. And that’s the worst crime 😉
22 January 2015 at 22:07 #37496@bluesqueakpip, really like that. Me personally, I think the difference is deciding you are a writer 😉
22 January 2015 at 21:55 #37494@arbutus. Amen to that although Mr Lefty may disagree with me characterising myself as the primary homemaker.
22 January 2015 at 21:52 #37492@purofilion you play with words and have the most distinctive style which I love!
I think you might be on to something with the Buffy ships. On occasion the “fandom” want something so bad, and the team give them something else, and a proportion of the fans decide they knew better and that they don’t like their show anymore. I kind of love it when it is obvious the fan base is being trolled. We should be honoured we have writers smart and involved enough to do it.
With you on the production/writing etc people.Need a chart.
So actually what I dislike is character contravention without appropriate development, forced situations and when fans give themselves an excuse to hate the things they love.
@
22 January 2015 at 21:31 #37488@juniperfish, bizarrely, the Sherlock thing was a conversation I was just having with Mr Lefty, also a defender 😉 I did feel the need to qualify, as I am aware there is good writing that is fanfic, so I submit graciously to your staunch defence.
Oh dear. I’m going to have to go have a look now aren’t I?
22 January 2015 at 21:11 #37486@arbutus, your clipping, what the heck was that an autocorrect of?!?
22 January 2015 at 20:57 #37485Haha! Another wordsmith to the party! Howdy @purofilion, wondered if we would see you 🙂
Does @pedant have a word on fanfic? Strictly, it is fiction, written by fans, but there are a few trends that make it frequently disturbing. It does tend to be bad, although there are doubtless exceptions. It tends to contravene in universe (whatever that universe is) rules and have poor characterisation because people have not learned to write, something that they may yet succeed at. But the most heinous, common crime is the world of the ship. Short for RelationSHIP, it takes any, and Lordy, I do mean any, “pairing” of characters in a universe, and well, I’ll leave it to your imagination, although they would never do you that courtesy. Seriously. Nothing is sacred. Someone, I can’t remember who, once said something about wanting to claw out their minds eye. That applies.
22 January 2015 at 19:49 #37483Lol, @lisa, I think there are some beautiful wordsmiths on here. Tbh, it was insomnia and being a bit down that got me going originally. But I just got to get it down! Whether it comes to anything is a different story, as it were 😉
22 January 2015 at 19:34 #37481That is indeed a trick @arbutus. Haven’t really tackled that bit yet!
Argh autocorrect – poet or two
22 January 2015 at 19:28 #37478Exactly @arbutus. I think I was concluding that, but on the other hand, no bad thing to take a moment before crashing straight on.
The question then becomes who is the audience, and consequently, is your story that must be told one that anyone cares about 😉
If I might be so noisy, what do you guys write?
I’m mainly poetry, short stories and the odd, radio/screenplay, all just for fun until i work myself up a bit. Mostly fun stuff like environmental degradation, politics and depression. Been told the poetry isn’t too bad by a pretty or two.
22 January 2015 at 19:03 #37475Geez. Typos :-\ which is to say, are there things we shouldn’t write about?
22 January 2015 at 18:50 #37474@pedant allergic to fanfic. Brings me out in hives.
Got a wee original thing on the go, light drama
The should of a story bothers me sometimes. Particularly in the sort of story where you have some good characters and aplot that inteeests you, and it ends that because they are interesting you go somewhere you didn’t expect you go, usually politics or religion for me and end up worrying about being respectful or otherwise to real people. Well that’s cryptic. Nothing even vaguely Who here, it’s just a question that bothers me cos invariably I can’t leave issues alone and end up unpeeling them all the way..
22 January 2015 at 17:40 #37472I know, I know, every now and again, up pops the newbie saying, I want to write stuff for Doctor Who and then they disappear quickly as the challenges associated with not being an established writer with a body of work, or indeed being any kind of writer with an understanding of editing, or rewrites, or rejection, or committing to something you might fail at, or y’know, work, emerge. But at least some of those people must have gone away, and found other writers, and started writing their own stuff, and got feedback, and discovered ways of writing which worked for them, which is to say, I bet there are writers here. And I know this is a specific forum, but hey, we like specific things. So does anyone fancy talking about writing sometimes? Just occasionally…
@ichabod etc apologies to any *actual* writers who might get enough of this elsewhere
22 January 2015 at 17:17 #37471OK. So maybe jumping the gun here but I’ve snaffled my Love film/Amazon/Whatever it is this week DVDs by post ™ settings so hopefully I will be guaranteed to get Enemy of the World next. Tumteetum. Anyway, pleasantly surprised by their range; have had all the classics I’ve looked for. I now realise that I could have bought the set for the same price as my subscription, although then the parallel AG (Tennant from the start, didn’t have Eccleston) watch would grind to a halt and we’re on the clock here.
18 January 2015 at 09:17 #37373Enemy of the world sounds interesting, and apt. All for it
Hello @amberpearl. Go for it
12 January 2015 at 21:46 #37266@purofilion
We’re all a bit overwrought..
So if you’d just drink this sleeping potion and get out of my face….
Love the idea of crows, particularly the ladies in their robes. So disorienting at the start.
@bluesqueakpip. I noticed the Doctor’s characteristically dramatic volte face; to some extent I felt it was cemented by seeing Barbara attempting, as gentle as if he were a child, to restrain and calm Ian, despite the fact he was at that moment trying to strangle her. I like the idea of it, that moment giving a profound and recognisable insight into human behaviour.
Surprising amount of blokey cameraderie between the Doctor and Ian, the crisis allowing them to bond over the protection of the ladies, while good old Barbara saves the day. Barbaras are best!. And nice early establishment of the “With my logic and your social skills/ other brain bits, we can save the universe!”
Also Barbara, “Give me the scissors.” Cos I’m a teach and I got eyes in the back of my head!
10 January 2015 at 12:41 #37197Cheers @fatmaninabox
10 January 2015 at 10:33 #37189@craig, @jimthefish, @fatmaninabox, spammer back, jennylve1 I think
10 January 2015 at 09:16 #37184Hey, tuppence.
As I’m deep in my Doctor Who (re)discovery phase I am still most interested in classic or Nu episodes which inform about the Doctor’s character/where we are now so I’m going with @janetteb, @blenkinsopthebrave on ‘Edge of Destruction’, ‘Lost in Time’ sounds interesting, as does anything else which gets you that extra insight/development of any given regeneration, so one for Pertwee, Baker etc too. Also like @janettes similar Companion relationship examination and if possible, both.
Happy enough to do a Capaldi retro and I know I’d enjoy watching ‘Crow Road’, I’m trying to rehabilitate myself for British politics so while I love Thick of It, not sure it is a priority rewatch for me.
7 January 2015 at 23:36 #370867 January 2015 at 01:44 #37047@lisa, well I suppose it depends where one is in Game of Thrones and who it is! I’m not looking, Schrödinger’s spoiler for me. However, I realise this isn’t the Game of Thrones Forum, so I shall just bug out of this thread if needs be 😉
7 January 2015 at 01:21 #37045@spider! Bad dog-spider! There’s nothing there so stop barking! (Nips round to YouTube to check if there is actually something lurking there in the shadows…)
7 January 2015 at 01:07 #370446 January 2015 at 11:05 #37024@reprisal, hasn’t realised this was here, was wondering where the sudden dubstep fans appeared from. Just awesome!
6 January 2015 at 10:15 #37023Oh @ichabod, that sounds so hard, there isn’t going to be an easy way to do that. But as puro says you are here, and that’s no bad thing. Displacement activities (fair?) are absolutely necessary, can turn into useful and interesting interactions, and help us heal. Sometimes the crazy brain just needs pandered to for however long it needs, and no better place than this. I am clearly not alone in thinking this place is more be beautiful yet for your presence. Oscurritantes shall prevail, lugging around the massive sacks of unresolved loose ends.
Probably dropping off the surface of the forum for a few days: having a visit from a very dear friendwho has been badgering me to watch Who for years, but is a Tennant/Osgood groupie who is as yet “unconvinced” by season 8. What’s a girl to do?!? Have fun all.
5 January 2015 at 23:29 #37007@bluesqueakpip, @lisa, I know it’s fashionable to be in the Shona camp, but as I am a sort of semi sciency bod (lackey type only), I reckon your on that money and Ashley is the real deal.
@purofilion, I can only read the funny or outrageous political bios. Tried reading Tony Blair’s, kept wanting to punch things
@whisht where has the Dub step Dalek been all my life?! Of course they would enjoy industrial music!!
5 January 2015 at 23:12 #37002@ichabod, @lisa @purofilion @arbutus we’re properly down the rabbit hole now! What fun, does this often happen? @ichabod, don’t take away our in-dream resolution by pointing out that it is, in fact, a dream…!!! I’m going with @arbutus here (if indeed I’m following all this at all!) that it is real because Clara’s refusal to leave was a tacit requirement to be ‘rescued’ just so she’d know one of her two options was still possible. And also, tangerines. However if in fact Santa represents the dreaming Doctor….
And yeah, how much sugar went in the coffee on the plane in DiH? I guess he had just had some downers.
Re Obscuritantia, I believe it is ok about very long processions as the law of Brevity is itself very, very, very, very, very long, so by the time they read it, the procession has passed.
And @purofilion, I’m rather in the other camp, and quite like my little Utopia. Although I’m not blind to its faults, I can’t fault its aspiration 😉
5 January 2015 at 11:52 #36973Cheers @janetteb, hope all reasonably settled for you now. Definitely be up for an Edge of Destruction watch, now we have seen Unearthly child and the Daleks.
5 January 2015 at 11:34 #36972And sorry mods, last post should probably be on the sofa..
5 January 2015 at 11:17 #36970@ichabod – totally take your point about Clara’s tight-rope walking. In wish fulfillment land, of course you would. However, Clara is displaying all the signs of knowing it’s Not OK 😉 Sure, a lot of that is to do with Danny’s incomplete understanding of the situation. Then again, in terms of the pushing too far, putting in danger, he’s right on the money. And I give the Doctor some credit for feelings – but agree he’s not entirely aware of what they are!
He really has archived a lot of himself, but as so often with someone who is having trouble coping with aspects of themselves seems to have shut down a lot more than they really need to. Totally with you on the PTSD – which is where my series 8 wish list included Danny, further down the line of their relationship having a discussion with the creature who has spend approx 1200 of 2000 years at war on the psychological concept of projection. That and an Ian interaction/Susan in the school yearbook. I’m still hoping for a scene helping Courtney with her maths homework (“Ask your maths teacher!” “He’s DEAD!”) and commenting that it would be easier with 5 dimensions. But I think he’s managed to do a fair bit of unpacking so I do anticipate a slightly different Doctor in s9.
Which leads me to @lisa, I wasn’t immediately feeling your Clara heading for a breakdown as I felt we’d covered that, but in terms of protecting the relationship which has been developed between Clara and the Doctor in series 8, having the Doctor spend a fair bit of time trying to be supportive of Clara through series 9 would emphasise the paternal and give him a bit of a new focus, getting him away from laser-like
navel-gazingself analysis. And remember kids, no navel-gazing with high-powered lasers! It can only lead to tears. That’s.. crying.. not the other thing. So…I’m going for the helping someone else as a form of self- therapy through s9 but this is where I disagree with you @ichabod – I think that Clara’s loss and need to not be reminded of Danny, in story terms, provide the perfect excuse for some dedicated Tardis travel. I’m looking for some compelling off-world story.I like Obscuritantist: makes it sound like a bizarre religious order, perhaps the ones that the parsons of the Shepherd of Gallifrey are in 😉 I think we should have a Wholly day (!) during which we walk on stilts, with earmuffs on. Or perhaps not. I think they must be affiliated with the @apopheniac order, who sadly seem to have become a closed order. Anyway, caught the Sandman reference, are you familiar with the Invisibles? Quite the source material for we Obscuritantists, I think 🙂
As for wine, last night I was beating you by one glass – always brings out the fnarring in me 😉 All sober now but with the newly ultra strict drink driving laws here in the Littlest Socialist Utopia/Police State (depending on which view you take), I’ll wait a few hours before shopping.
And for my next trick I will be learning brevity…
5 January 2015 at 00:26 #36953Flippin’ heck, @ichabod, nice words! Who wouldn’t want a charismatic, character building, adrenaline-pushing man-like alien!
Strangely compelling masculine figure right enough..
4 January 2015 at 23:33 #36951@blenkinsopthebrave (blushes)
4 January 2015 at 22:31 #36946Having watched the classic Hartnell “The Daleks”, in which the Doctor was incredibly passive (radiation, I know, or was it something else?) the Mind Robber and the Silurians, we finally watched the Unearthly Child arc as a family. I had seen it as a child but it was fascinating to watch and my fave of the classics I have seen. As an Extended Gapper (Eggy?), I’m missing a lot still and I know I lack context so I apologise for making pronouncements which after further viewing I will probably reject and also for rehashing stuff which will doubtless have been covered before and better. Notwithstanding the above, off I go.
I was incredibly impressed with it as a universe and character establishing arc. Obviously it goes without saying that as so many of the key elements established in the opening episode were so strong, so unique, they still persist today (the Tardis, it’s ability to camouflage itself but wonkiness when doing so, the advanced state of the Doctor’s race and the relative simplicity of the humans) and were special enough that they were revived, but in a show whose central conceit necessitates contradictory plot points, it is the powerful, unambiguous way they are established which impressed me. As someone who has only come back to the fold recently, the aloof Doctor, the antagonism and lack of understanding between characters driving the drama, the Doctor holding back information, dissembling, outright lying, hanging back until that moment of chaos when he can take control and drive Kal from the tribe, indicated to me just how hard series 8 is calling back to the very start of the Doctor’s journey and, unlike others, caused me to think, “That IS my Doctor!” Sure he’s been on a journey, he’s grown, but essentially, he is the guy who first runs over Barbara (I spit on him) then gets her out of there. He has to think about his goodness because he cannot identify even so much with Ian and Barbara as they do with the Cavemen, but his intellect, curiosity and love for Susan allow him to overcome his instinct. Susan’s presence in these episode, and her openness and liking of the humans allowed the Doctor to see past his prejudice, but equally allowed for a show in which an arrogant, aloof alien could both be presented as such and somewhat (but not entirely) rehabilitated. Interesting that his attitude was toned down from the pilot to ep 1; he was really quite abusive to Susan in the pilot, but I didn’t think it out of place, even after contrasting with the ep 1 slight rewrite. In either case, he did end up apologising profusely by the time they were trapped in the cave of skulls. I see series 8 as a continuation of this antagonism/rehabilitation theme, but am not sure if this is actually quite a common and long established motif for a not quite hero-protagonist (thinking Frodo in LotR)
I loved the dramatic set up between Ian and Barbara, the real, adult concern for a pupil, the ordinariness of it, in particular the (presumably very deliberate) contrast/parallel between the junkyard and the somewhat clapped out piece of insanely advanced alien tech. I guess you can do contrast and parallelism at the same time. Who knew?
I know folks might disagree but I really loved the Cavemen and their treatment. I was just commenting to Mr Lefty on how they always write these people humourless when they start ripping the proverbial out of another tribe member and commenting on how good it is to laugh. I remember reading the foreword to a copy of the Iliad, and it commented on how for the characters within, you had to forego logic and treat them as if, any time a thought popped in their head, they considered it divinely inspired. Now that may have been Homer (or whoever) using exactly the same presentation of his pre-Homeric ‘heroes’ as the Who writers used for ‘savages’ but the politics, negotiation and statement-making felt compelling, if telegraphed. Sure they didn’t seem to have a full understanding of altruism, but they were written in a way which left the audience in no doubt that it was a damned good thing we got it in the end. We got to watch ourselves develop, with a little help from the Doctor. And who wouldn’t love that.
4 January 2015 at 12:02 #36923Things I love about this place
1) It’s a nice, positive environment where people discuss Doctor Who in a constructive manner
2) When they drive the troll out, they place on the east side of the forum a @pedant and a flaming keyboard that flashed back and forth to guard the way to the Thread of discussion
4 January 2015 at 09:15 #36919@janetteb so glad you and you friends and neighbours are safe, but horrible news about the animals. Hope everything continues safe for your this summer x
3 January 2015 at 10:20 #36877Oh @janetteb looks terrible on the news :-\
3 January 2015 at 10:07 #36874@janetteb really hope you are OK. Sounds truly terrifying. As @scaryb says our weather is largely slightly bad rather than bad, so even snow here rarely comes to anything. I’m totally OK with that, rather that than fires 🙁
Also @craig, @phaseshift, we seems to have a bit of spam on the pub door mat this morning
2 January 2015 at 11:38 #36836@janetteb, bloomin’ heck. Hope everyone is safe. So strange to think on the difference. Just started rubbish snowing here
2 January 2015 at 08:48 #36829Hi @ichabod, lovely to see you here, I’m a newbie, who could possibly come across as obsessed logging on at 08:30, but actually just getting breakie for the other half to go to work and taking 5 before the wee one is up 😉
Never mind the avatar, what about the ideas?! Love your description of the show, and look forward to future discussions of scene source and writing. I think you can’t love Doctor Who without loving that stuff too, but as I know nothing about it, I am very pleased to see you here.
Not sure when/if the PC marathon will happen, but there is a long way to go before the next season, so it’s a plan. Other people seem to be sorting it out. As the sort of person who, prior to PCs doctor, used to watch the Malcolm Tucker swearing videos on YouTube just to pick me up after a bad day at work, I’m all for it.
1 January 2015 at 23:44 #36823@purofilion, have to give credit to the Moff on that one! Deep breathe. Don’t know much Smith or Tennant, but can pretty much quote series 8 😉
1 January 2015 at 23:39 #36821@scaryb 😀
1 January 2015 at 22:35 #36812Alcohol?
Actually, they put cat-nip at the top of the tabs. Nice that you are enjoying yourself
1 January 2015 at 18:45 #36799Wow! Away for a for a few hours and toooo much to take in
Particularly loved
@purofilion
Unconquerable confederation mystique
Just Lovely!!
100% pure distilled Doctor
And that bloody house! Keep coming back to it. @scaryb agree about the ‘Tardis’ door. Of course Dave wouldn’t knock at his own house door (@nerys). I would love to give it a ‘Christmas Special’ /nice set dressing aesthetic pass, but am struggling.
By his Mistress..
OK so hadn’t thought of that piece of ‘the clue is in the name’! I had wondered about her decision to change biological sex, and the whole boyfriend thing. I wonder if there will be a romantic trip to a clone bank in the Doctor’s near future… So is Missy trying save the Gallifreyan race, in her own completely icky way?!
Still not on the Clara as daughter bandwagon, seems disrespectful to Ellie and Dave. I’m still not completely giving up on my child abandoned in temporal backwater, also known as Gloucester, no known family, has the sort of hostile relationship with potential parent which would utterly throw audience off the scent if they were on the lookout for potential kids, and which while other explanations are available, would not suffer from further explanation. Which all seems a bit disrespectful to Clara, and would require a major retrofit. Oh wait, this is Doctor Who.
But still…@bluesqueakpip, argh insufficient information re River’s last tease. Must. Trawl. Internet. Or get a life. Y’know.
1 January 2015 at 11:52 #36786@janetteb, once a year, as the days shorten/lengthen and the temperature drops/rises, it comes around..
Car trouble! Hope it gets sorted and isn’t it the way that the most fun seems to happen when the odds are stacked against it. I think, it must be an age thing, where as you get on a bit, it does become easier not to sweat the small stuff. Sounds like you had a ball in the end.
@arbutus what warm and lovely thoughts. Particularly like the idea we are a cultural melting pot. I love that we get to share the minutiae of our lives, the ways they are different and the ways they are the same, which as we know, is what it is all about: Every detail, every moment, every life clung to. I wonder how many more cultures we can add to our melting pot?
@pedant, hope the move goes well. It’s a tough one to leave family history behind, but exciting to think of the new lives to be lived.
1 January 2015 at 01:45 #36768Happy New Year!!! Bed time now
31 December 2014 at 14:46 #36736@kermit, no problem. Watching the horror channel pertwee, recorded so as to zip past the entirely unsuitable for kids ad breaks :-\
31 December 2014 at 01:32 #36713Thanks @craig, sounds like an important night after all. Hope it went well; passions were high over the referendum, but here we all are still. Strong beliefs aside, the next most important thing is to keep talking 🙂
30 December 2014 at 23:39 #36695Not that it should make any odds, but arise Sir War Doctor!!! (Hurt is in the New years honours) (where the Queen hands out baubles)
I think he’ll wear it well.
30 December 2014 at 23:20 #36693But they said it was about friendship, so that’s OK, right? Ta @scaryb
@juniperfish, agreed, so much. Too much! (Oh dear)
Missy as Nurse Ratched. Flipping heck, I think I need to go lie down
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