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30 May 2017 at 16:53 #58276
<span class=”useratname”>@missrori</span> Well there was that mysterious phone booth in the background in Dark Water. But I suspect that was just a red hearing device.
30 May 2017 at 16:11 #58274P.S. Did anyone else think: “a ship disguised to look like a pyramid? You mean like a TARDIS?!”
30 May 2017 at 16:08 #58273Well I generally enjoyed this one and was, for the most part, willing to overlook some of the logic flaws; like the very poor judgment on the part of the male lab worker.
But when the Doctor was trapped in the lab, talking to Bill, they had me screaming at the TV loud enough that they should have heard me: “You have smart phones! Aim the camera at the lock and have Bill walk you through cycling the combination!”
Ah well. I was amused that they killed the moon, dead! :p
3 May 2017 at 14:28 #57058@thane15 Brewski: Oh you’re never out…..one has to count to 10 first.
Oh I know! When I would make my mom mad at me she used to count to 10. And THEN I was dead!
@mersey Please show me a companion who wasn’t slim and pretty?
Well I was going to say Jamie McCrimmon. But come to think of it he was both, too.
2 May 2017 at 14:35 #57036Hello all. Late to the game again, but the most annoying thing has begun to happen at work. They expect me to work and not discuss DW. Talk about bonkers!
I enjoyed this ep. More classic style Who. Although I grudgingly admit that it was teetering on the edge of packaged sci-fi. Take one seasoned time traveler, add a companion, marinate one exploited “monster” and beat the true-monster-human to tenderize. Don’t get me wrong, I did still enjoy it. But I am tending to agree with others who have are looking for something a little meatier now. (Hi <span class=”useratname”>@janetteb</span>)
@pedant: I think the final scene somewhat arses up brewski‘s splendid bit of bonkerising.
Lol… out but not down for the count!
We have the notion that the Doctor has made some sort of promise. And we have the vault, which now appears to contain something sentient. But we don’t know how the two things are related (assuming they are.) It seems unlikely that he made a vow TO or FOR whatever is in the vault. So, for example, he probably didn’t lock Susan in there to keep her safe. 😉
It’s easy to go with the idea that his promise was to protect something/someone from what’s inside the vault. (Almost TOO easy to go with that.) So how could that tie into anything we know about? Based on what I’ve seen of Moffat’s style, I’m going to guess its nothing we’ve seen before. A brand new knock-y something.
I am really liking the theme of monster-isn’t-really evil (and must shamefully confess that I did not pick up on it myself) so it feels like a good idea to expect the same thing of whatever is in the vault.
We are expecting to see Missy soon. And we know she had some sort of brilliant idea the last time we saw her. Wouldn’t surprise me if this is related to that. Maybe what’s in the vault is something the Doctor is protecting from Missy. Or maybe the result of Missy’s meddling that he is keeping locked up.
Things I DON’T want it to be in order from Worst to Worstest: 1) The Rani, 2) An exploding Fob Watch, 3) The Valyard.
28 April 2017 at 19:44 #56838Hi @pedant. Thanks! I know PC has said he really wants to see Susan brought back. Well, he’s getting his wish with the Mondasian cybermen, so who knows?! :O
Thanks @ichabod. Lily POND. Melody Pond’s daughter. Lol… I wouldn’t be me without the word play…
Of course, I think I also read that Shoshona could also mean Rose. So where do we take THAT?!
28 April 2017 at 15:41 #56833Hi @blenkinsopthebrave! And thanks!
Oh! Great thinking on the “I shall come back” vow. That’s one I think most of us would like to see kept.
Hi @jimthefish. Nice to be back and see everyone theorizing away! 🙂 I would be shocked if any idea I come up with actually panned out. Hasn’t happened yet. Why break a perfect record. :p
For sure River has to figure in. Which suits me. I’ve liked her right from the beginning.
But hey, I am willing to abandon the other part of my theory: That they were going to name their daughter Lily Pond
Meaning of the name Susan: English form of Susannah, which is from the Hebrew Soshana, a derivative of shōshannāh (a lily)
😀
27 April 2017 at 17:31 #56797Hi all!
Nice to see everyone back. I have a LOT of catching up to do. Have enjoyed the first two episodes. To me “Smile” felt very much like Classic Who. If I had seen this story with Three and Jo I would have thought “That looked about right.”
And then I would have thought “Wow, how did they manage those special effects!”
Seeing Susan’s picture on the desk last week, sitting next to River’s made me trot out an old wacko theory of mine. But one that I am going to modify to trend the wackiness upward:
Susan is NOT the Doctor’s granddaughter. She is The Doctor and River’s DAUGHTER.
But after River died, the Doctor knew he could not continue to care for her, so he put her in the care of… HIMSELF. He left Susan with his First Incarnation, telling her that was her grandfather.
May have something to do with the “promise” he made.
brewski out (WAY out)
5 September 2016 at 18:43 #538523 September 2016 at 01:57 #53830Hi all!
I imagine I’m like the rest of your waiting around impatiently waiting the new series.
I have been keeping occupied and I really REALLY hope it’s not horribly self serving to put this here, but I just published a book on Amazon is anyone is interested. Specifically in sci-fi, time travel with a bit of a gay love story thrown in.
It’s called “A Particular Memory” by Matthew Bruehler.
Oh! Is THAT where the “Brewski” came from?!
Anyway, check it out if you have a minute.
Thanks.
11 January 2016 at 19:04 #50082@ichabod Yes, I recall reading stories of the public outcry over the killing off of the character. Not quite the same as with Superman. 😉
If I remember my chronology correctly, Doyle wrote a number of stories after that which predated the final problem. But that wasn’t quite good enough to satisfy the public, I guess.
8 January 2016 at 13:27 #50045@ichabod I don’t disagree with you about that. It’s just that Holmes’ subsequent “Guess what, I’m not dead”, to me, undermines that grand ending somewhat.
Don’t get me wrong. I have adored those books since I was 10 and first discovered the Readers Digest version of them on my parents book shelf. I hope you don’t think I mean to diminish them in any way by what I’ve said.
7 January 2016 at 13:37 #50028@ichabod oh I have no doubt that ACD WANTED to divest himself of Holmes, but of course he ultimately didn’t. After all, that was a pretty lucrative character.
I would be more convinced that he intended no out if at the end Watson was there, desperately holding onto Holmes, losing his grip and witnessing his fall, and then finally recovering and identifying the body. THAT is the author saying “I mean it. He’s done!” 🙂
6 January 2016 at 19:13 #50018Well I found it thoroughly enjoyable. I am frankly not surprised that a lot of fans of the show were left confused since many only have modern Sherlock to go on. Gattiss himself remarked that he heard fans ask outloud “How can Sherlock solve crimes without his smart phone?” That pretty much says it all.
@blenkinsopthebrave Mycroft is definitely described in the books as “stout” and “massive”. My assumption when I saw him in tAB was that they were purposefully being as true to the original stories as possible. So “Look! We even have a properly fat Mycroft!”
@ichabod ACD killing of Holmes permanently. I never believed it for a minute! If he’d really, truly intended to rid himself of the character forever he would never have given himself such a convenient out as having no body. I have always believed that he intended from the beginning to bring the character back, or at least have the opportunity to if he wanted to.
Unconnected note, just because I’ve found nowhere else to mention it: was anyone else tickled in episode 1 after we found out that Watson’s leg wound was indeed psychosomatic that he revealed he really was shot. But in the shoulder?
1 January 2016 at 00:43 #49887How meta fun would it have been if, instead of Stephen Fry, River had married Mark Gattis?
28 December 2015 at 20:40 #49773Well add my voice to the chorus of “Loved the Episode”!
@pedant intriguing idea! And consider that River knows a lot about Clara. Certainly at some point in those 24 years she will mention that. And the Doctor is just as certain to want to learn everything he can from her.
1 December 2015 at 22:44 #48466@ichabod That does it; you win the internet today!
Lol. Thanks! But I’m afraid I’m in the wrong time zone.
1 December 2015 at 16:56 #48435Nothing I can add to these wonderful comments about a wonderful episode!
But, oh! It is time to put the Bonkers Hat on. And I mean the seriously Tin-Foil-Bonkers Hat!
About The Hybrid. (And don’t put too much stock in the wording of the prophecy because “they got it wrong.”
1. We learned that Asildr/Me has an issue of an infinite experience with a finite brain. An issue which The Doctor pointedly does NOT have.
2. We learned from Missy that The Doctor can calculate billions of equations in nano seconds.
3. We now know how he does it. He goes into his Mind Place and works it all out there. (Incidentally we now know “where he’s been during those fourth-wall-breaking monologues and how the “Li
<p style=”display: inline !important;”>sten” got on the chalk board)</p>
4. Conclusion 1: The Doctor’s brain is “bigger on the inside”.5. The Doctor says “the hybrid is me”, but he does NOT mean half Time Lord half human.
6. The great secret experiment that he has been running from his whole life is: Conclusion 2 – he is half Time Lord half TARDIS.
20 November 2015 at 14:31 #4734020 November 2015 at 12:56 #47336@supernumerary I wonder if it’s possible that these episodes were originally written with a new (still unknown) companion. Or even NO companion.
If we accept that Clara was going to leave before the Last Christmas episode, she may not have even been factored in to some of the stories originally.
That may be why her character seems a bit “off” now.
19 November 2015 at 18:23 #47295@tommo and @purofilion
There is another (albeit tenuous) connection to Amy’s Choice. The absurdity of the Doctor’s assertion that the monsters are made of eye gunk is like the absurdity of his assertion that they were near a “cold burning star”.
I would not be surprised if in the sequel we hear him say “Eye Booger Monsters? ! Give me a break!”
13 November 2015 at 14:31 #46878Her sister being Oswin, the Dalek Claricle.
13 November 2015 at 14:26 #46877Hi @purofilion.
Honestly I’m not sure what I’m suggesting. 🙂 Just found the pattern of words intriguing.
Your take on them is even better than I was thinking, which is that Osgood, who said “I’m a fan” first, might be hinting that SHE is really the enemy to watch out for.
That would certainly be a twist!
I was also taking it back to the mention of her sister in Day of the Doctor.
12 November 2015 at 19:23 #46847“I’m a big fan”.
Or “fander”, old Norse “fjandi”.
Meaning “enemy” or “devil”. English word “fiend”.
The fiend inside the friend.
Devil/Enemy
As opposed to God/Friend = “Oswin”
The prettier sister.
5 November 2015 at 18:03 #46397Hello All! Very late to the party and lots of catching up to do. Here’s a few quick first thoughts:
Amazing Grace: maybe he was just thinking about his TV movie companion. Ok, we’ll forget that one!
Doctor as Zygon – anti: “Doctor Disco” is his arranged code with Clara so she’ll know it’s really him. Likewise when she doesn’t recognize it he knows it’s not really her.
Doctor as Zygon – pro: how uncharacteristic is it of him to start a sentence “My name is…” before backing up and saying “I’m called The Doctor”?
29 October 2015 at 17:34 #4584528 October 2015 at 22:42 #45768@lisa Could it be Simon – ale – cocktail – ‘BREW’-ski ??
ROTFL! Love it. You gave me my best laugh of the day. Also it’s kinda fun to be the target of the bonkers theory for a change. 🙂
@ichabod I’m pretty sure you’re right — I think that if he knew the details of Clara’s fate, he’d be spending some time trying to work out ways to avoid it, not just space/time hopping as usual. Which reminds me — if he *does* see a way to protect her and attempts to swing events in a different direction, would the Tardis — that has awareness of unknown limits — be his ally, or his enemy in that effort? Tardis doesn’t like Clara, for whatever reason, and might try to steer events in some different direction . . . ?
This is a very interesting thought! We’ve already seen the Tardis refuse to participate in one of his attempts to break the rules. (Reminder?) I wonder how they would repair their relationship, though, if that happened.
More than “Cock Ale”, anyway, @fatmaninabox, which sounds — I have a bad bad mind . . . !
Well… I have been in Heaven in London. But I didn’t see it there on draught.
28 October 2015 at 19:38 #45754ah @brewski I think the idea that death releases energy (in all episodes so far) and opens up dimensions etc is definitely a way to bring back Gallifrey.
Its almost not bonkers!
Lol… well you may be right! We’ll have to do a lot better than that if we want to be more insane that what’s really happening.
I was going more for the notion of Clara using the amulet to sacrifice herself in order to bring Galifrey back. But you’re right, maybe that WOULD be a little too much for this type of program.
28 October 2015 at 19:32 #45753Regarding the use of the word “cocktail” I agree that it could have easily be in limited use long before it made it into print.
In fact, I would love to see a classic old historical episode of Who wherein the Doctor sets out to solve the mystery of the origin of the word.
He discovers that it happened like this:
There was a tavern in a small town in Northern England where amiable barkeep Simon Medley was trying find various ways to water down his cheap grain alcohol and disguise its nasty taste when he hit upon the addition of bitters, lemon juice, and yesterday’s coffee.
He was astonished to discover that the townsmen went crazy over the concoction which, at first, didn’t even have a name.
Now, as it happened, old Simon’s tavern was call the “Cock’s Tail”. And soon other taverns were finding their customer’s asking for that “Cock’s Tail” beverage. Can you make me a “Cock’s Tail”.
Soon every pub in every village in the squire was making their own version of the “Cock Tail”.
Ok, I have no idea if this actually happened. But I can’t confine ALL my bonkers theories to science fiction!
28 October 2015 at 18:11 #45751Mentioning Capt. Jack makes me wonder how he’ll react when he sees the Doctor’s new face.
Maybe we’ll find out! And learn more about the Frobisher connection.
28 October 2015 at 18:07 #45750@ichabod hopefully I didn’t imply that Clara’s sacrificing herself to save Galifrey could happen if the Doctor had the slightest inking that she was going to do it. He would certainly stop her.
I agree that he is apprehensive about her fate, but I don’t think he knows what it is yet. It’s another “remembering in the wrong order” kind of feeling like he had when he first saw Ashildr.
27 October 2015 at 19:23 #45673@all
Have a lot of catching up to do before I weigh in on this episode, but wanted to toss out one scary bonkers idea first:
The amulet opens a bridge to other dimensions, but someone has to die for it to work.
What if another dimension it opens to is where Galifrey is?
And what if Clara sacrifices herself to get to it?!
22 October 2015 at 20:33 #45310@arbutus “there is only so much we can accept” when we don’t WANT to. (or DO want to)
Which was where I started out, but we went for quite a scenic walk after that. 🙂
The fact is, sophisticated baby poetry SHOULD be hard to accept. But dammit, it was done so beautifully I’m totally buying into it. My own tolerance for believable is quite variable.
22 October 2015 at 17:57 #4530622 October 2015 at 16:26 #45304I like that! It’s kinda like when a good piece of abstract art “feels” more real than a high res photograph.
The photo captures the bare reality. The art captures the feeling it evokes.
22 October 2015 at 13:24 #45300@pedant I agree entirely. Particularly in that an excellent ensemble makes such a difference. One can get away with depicting a dry and bland scientist. Not so much a dry and bland poet. 🙂
@winston For sure not knowing is half the fun! It’s what gives birth to such bonkers theories. “Always leave them wanting more. ” And more to the point: too often the explanation can be anti-climactic. Leave me to my exciting imagination!
21 October 2015 at 23:57 #45272Ok, so I found the episode entertaining, but it got me to thinking about something. Allow me to play Devil’s Advocate a moment. (Note: the following is NOT actually my opinion):
“My biggest problem with the episode is where the Doctor is ‘translating’ the baby. I mean, come on! How plausible is that? Are we accept that there is sufficient modulation in the voice of a crying baby to transmit such a complex array of concepts and meanings? We could, of course, entertain the possibility that the Doctor is using telepathy rather than auditory transmission, however this forces us to replace science with science fiction AND presuppose that human babies are somehow telepathic. We are also expected to believe that an infant somehow has access to knowledge and world-experience sufficient to understand and relate context with content. This despite the fact that babies do not form this type of cognitive ability until nearly a year old. Of course, we could fall back on ‘but we don’t know how much a baby knows’ but once again this forces us necessarily right back outside of science.”
Ok, in truth I LOVED those scenes! I think they were beautifully written and sublimely acted.
So what’s my point?
Sometimes in Doctor Who we accept beauty and poetry and philosophy over science. It’s just part of the magic of the show. (And yes, I am using that word ironically.) And in this case of the Doctor “speaking Baby” that attitude seems to be nearly universal among fans. I haven’t seen anyone on this (or several other boards I’ve nosed around in) have anything but praise for the scenes where the Doctor is translating the baby.
So where and how do we decide? When is it okay to have non-sciencey baby-translating but NOT non-sciencey Moon Eggs or Northern Megawatt Eels?
To me it’s not a matter of how sciencey or not-sciencey Doctor Who is. I simply watch it with a different set of eyes – a different frame of mind – than I would, say, a Star Trek TNG. I’m not suggesting that we put such discussions off the table. In fact, dealing with it is what leads us to some wonderful bonkers theories!
Just maybe temper it with a little more leeway. Personally I can suspend my disbelief enough to hang it from a CyberKing! 🙂
7 October 2015 at 18:32 #44272If Clara regenerates into Missy — well I think the only thing I will be able to say is “wow”.
(And possibly “omg don’t soil yourself”)
7 October 2015 at 13:23 #44264@purofilion
I think Lunn is not killed because he has not yet seen the coordinates and so can’t chant them endlessly after he’s ghostified.
He’s of no use to them, therefore.
28 September 2015 at 23:10 #43736From a literary criticism point of view I tend to agree with your analysis. Of course we all know that this (or any) show isn’t going to be perfect, especially given how much material they have to crank out in such a short time. Mind you, I’m not meaning that to make excuses.
Looking backwards, I’m not sure if the Master/Missy ever really had any interest in ruling the universe. I think perhaps that we should reappraise the title ‘Master.’ We tend to default to reading it as ‘Master = Ruler = King = Tyrant = Dictator = Alpha = Big Dog = Owner = Controller = Dominator’ That may not be it at all.
Perhaps the Master’s title refers to something else. Perhaps it simply means ‘Better.’ Or ‘Best.’ The smartest, the fastest, the winner, etc. Perhaps the Master has truly gone blazing through the universe, not in a quest to rule it, but to test himself/herself against it. To beat it, to demonstrate that he’s better, that he’s the first place finisher. He’s continually seeking out challenges to demonstrate his superiority.
Honestly, in the King’s Demons, what the hell is the point of screwing with the Magna Carta? It doesn’t advance ‘rule’ in any meaningful way. Why the continuing one upsmanship with the Doctor through incarnation after incarnation. It’s not about conquest. It’s about proving himself.
In Logopolis, when the Baker Doctor falls, the Master is crowing victory, he’s proven himself better and smarter. He’s an ego on a collision course with the rest of the universe. He doesn’t want to rule it. He would get bored pretty fast. He just wants the universe to acknowledge he’s better
…
I’m quite enthused. It’s almost an epiphany. There have been so many times in the classic series that the Master seemed almost like a pantomime villain, a ridiculous, motiveless, comic opera bad guy. One of the pleasures of Mark of the Rani, is that the new time lord villain, the Rani, calls the Master out on it, literally telling him repeatedly ‘you’re a boob!’ His perpetual schemes, and the way they blew up in his face, didn’t make a lot of sense in the overarching scheme of things, does a lot to pull the character together, to make the Master coherent, even epicI really love this bit of bonkers theorizing! I do!
And isn’t it wonderful fun to make the narrative work for us in such creative ways rather than just saying The Master’s Magna Carta plan was just poorly thought-out writing.
28 September 2015 at 22:56 #43735Oyg! You are so smart! Sure, why not? He knows, as we all do, that even if Skaro melts down completely into sewer sludge, Davros won’t die, so — makes him an involuntary bird-dog?
Thanks! :p I have been very successful at outsmarting myself. But it WOULD be a pretty awesome slap in the prosthetics for Davros!
28 September 2015 at 22:53 #43734<div class=”bbp-reply-author”><span class=”useratname”>@221badwolf</span></div>
<div class=”bbp-reply-content”>I certainly thought the whole episode gave off a Curse of Fatal Death vibe!
I wonder how much was intentional. Either way I love it.
Cool theory! I personally don’t think that Asylum!Clara is Original!Clara, but I’m interested in the possibility that Clara might now be under the influence of the Dalek nanogenes which were inserted into her when she was in the Dalek casing.
I actually thought something along those lines as I was watching Clara getting the circuits plugged in and Missy being dubious about how she’d get back out. But unfortunately I have a bad habit here of going back and forth between “serious bonkers” and “bonkers bonkers”.
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28 September 2015 at 19:54 #43722Some preliminary thoughts:
I am wondering, too, why the Doctor didn’t retrieve the sonic when he went back.
Laughed out loud at “the only other chair on Skaro”. Oh Moffat. Stealing your own joke from The Curse of the Fatal Death. (That had sewers in it too. Must been nostalgic that day 😉 )
@blenkinsopthebrave you know, it COULD be that the Doctor told Davros about Gallifrey still being out there knowing full well he’d try to find it. Maybe he’s manipulating Davros into helping him find it.
@bendubz11 you missed a hybrid: half human half Time Lord in the tv movie. I’m kidding. I’m KIDDING! Pretend you didn’t read that.
One more: I’m quite sure the Doctor wouldn’t let it happen, but… wouldn’t it be awful if he really can’t get her out of the Dalek, and the rest of her time with him is really her insIde it and she dOesn’t know it? And ultimately she ends up in the Assylum thinking her name is Oswin. Ok, forget I wrote that, too. I wish my back space key was working. :O
28 September 2015 at 15:14 #43702@blenkinsopthebrave. Ah, thanks. But no! Keep yourself hatted. I was not the first to suggest the hand mines would be the target.
However, I am pleased to say I retained my zero percent average in predictions. That the Doctor’s compassion is what made Davros who he is because he resented living. Totally not! Lol.
25 September 2015 at 13:43 #43407Aw shucks, thanks. 🙂 But I can only enjoy it until tomorrow when I turn out to be wrong again. Lol
But Moffat’s Doctor DOES say to the Weeping Angels that you never ever put him in a trap “if you value your continued existence. ”
Of course he may have been bluffing…
24 September 2015 at 18:48 #43363Thank you so much for tracking that down.
Pity it’s such an un-bonkers thing, though. 😀
For a second I thought I had something!
24 September 2015 at 17:34 #43357Could have been a Gallifeyan Wedding Anklet. 😉
Not sure what, but just think I saw something there.
I’ll try to find a link to a screen shot.
24 September 2015 at 16:24 #43354Can someone more clever than me find/post a screen grab of Missy getting zapped by the Dalek?
I want to say I saw something outlined around her ankle. Like a hidden vortex manipulator?
23 September 2015 at 15:25 #43309@blenkensopthebrave
Interesting point. Though he has done such things in the past. The Vervoids for instance.
Need to rethink it.
But I’m not sure it changes the larger point: by whatever means he saves Davros, his (Davros’ s) resentment for it stands.
23 September 2015 at 15:20 #43308 -
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