[chickenelly @replies]

@Blenkinsop

Well, technically I posted my comment before yours, but there is a distinct  lack of activity going on.

I was so bored, I was fiddling about with my avatar to annoy @Shazzbot.

[chickenelly @replies]

@Shazzbot

I’m still cross at @chickenelly for stealing my crown without even TRYING to beat my Georgia-Moffett-regenerates-into-John-Hurt sublimely insane theory. The Doctor’s Daughter is the Doctor’s daughter who becomes the Doctor’s secret who becomes the Doctor’s current companion’s burden which mirrors the Doctor’s Daughter’s daughter’s regenerated haggard soul’s need to redeem him(erm, her-)self.

Well to be fair you did nick @scaryb‘s fez, so it serves you right. My avatar has been zapped out of it’s Crimson Horror state, but I think the crown looks rather fetching.

[chickenelly @replies]

Do you think now might be a good time to open the 50th thread?  Our rumination© of the episode tNotD seems to be tailing off…

[chickenelly @replies]

ooh nice link @wolfweed

slightly distracting that after it has been played that there is an image of piglet from Winnie the Pooh in exactly the same pose as Clarence.

Makes a bit more sense too, and we get to see the Whispermen in action.

[chickenelly @replies]

@Shazzbot

But you ain’t neveh gonna beat my Jenny-is-in-the-Doctor’s-timestream theory!

{throws gauntlet}

{remembers we’re on the sofa, so said gauntlet must be picked up in TNotD thread, or in the new pub}

@craig – can the pub be called ‘The Dead Bird’? *innocent face*

*picks up gauntlet*
I see your Jenny-is-in-the-Doctor’s-timestream theory and raise you…..Being John Hurt-ovich!

Now that the Doctor has passed into his own timestream, all the world he will see from now on will be full of Doctor and Clara clones. *pow pow pow*

[chickenelly @replies]

@Shazzbot

He He

[chickenelly @replies]

*waves at* @whohar

My lovely imaginary granny is fine thank you.  She’s also read the ‘Summer Falls’ book and enjoyed it.  For those who’ve not read it yet, and to avoid being too spoilerific *thinks ooh what a great word, I shall copyright that immediately*.  As I said not too spoilerific©, but it is about the coming of the ‘Lord of Winter’ which presumably is meant to be the Great Intelligence.

How’s WhoHar Hall doing now that it’s been sent brick by brick to the Antipodes?

[chickenelly @replies]

@whohar & @bluesqueakpip

Petrichor is rain on dust; the smell of the rain after the drought

Ahem, in the little book ‘Summer Falls’ it essentially says that petrichor is the smell the Tardis leaves when it dematerializes.  The word petrichor is not used but the wording above is.

 

 

[chickenelly @replies]

@janetteb

Re: the Silents prophecy and Madame Kovarian, et al.  One of our bonkers theories™ of old was that the Silents were not actually malign but instead had a more noble reason for all that flipper action.

This also brings back the storyline of the Pandorica Opens (which I was watching the other day on the hunt for clues), where the Cybermen, Daleks, Sontarans, etc gang up together to save the universe from the Doctor.

Could it be that the ‘Doctor’ they want to save the universe from isn’t Eleven but Hurt Doctor?  The one who is to come?

[chickenelly @replies]

@scaryb

Speaking about the tricksy nature of prophecies, the one in Harry Potter, which is supposed to foretell the person who will bump of Voldemort, I’m still convinced actually refers to Snape.

I might be alone in thinking that however.

 

[chickenelly @replies]

@janisthorns

‘no living creature can speak falsely or fail to answer’

the Doctor did not answer, the GI asked over and over–he refused–so who has to ask so that “no living creature can speak fasely of fail to answer” and maybe the question was not to just open the tomb–maybe the question is really still to come

Hang on, wasn’t the question essentially Doctor Who? River answered but she isn’t a living creature anymore.

[chickenelly @replies]

@badwulf

Anyway, the way that I see it is that there is room in the Doctor’s timeline in four places for the Hurt Doctor:
1) Before Hartnell

2) Between Troughton and Pertwee

3) Between McGann and Ecclestone

4) After Smith
Additionally, some people have speculated that the Hurt Doctor might be:

5) Parallel to Smith

I think there is another one you could add in there. Didn’t Ten semi-regenerate in one of the last episodes? Can’t remember which one it was, but didn’t he get shot or something *looks a bit guilty for forgetting Ten so quickly.*

[chickenelly @replies]

It’s taken me ages to catch up on all the Bonkers theories™ above.  The problem about there being so much, I think of comments but have forget them by the time I reach the end.  Those I can remember are as follows:

1) Clara’s mother being replicated as Victorian mother of Snowman Clara.  It was the intervention of Clara’s mother which saved her father in 1981, is this feat also replicated down the ages? *polishes up pet ‘Boys from Brazil’ theory*.  On the other hand might the Doctor, Terminator style, distract 1980s Clara’s mother so she doesn’t save Clara’s father and therefore change Clara sacrificing herself?

2) ‘Summer Falls’ book.  I didn’t think the female character in the book (who saves the day it has to be said) was Clara due to the period, but as there are now multi-Claras knocking about it must be.  Plus she mentions souffles.

3) Paintings.  There is a painting in Summer Falls which is important.  Didn’t Matt say that a clue to the 50th was paintings?  We seem to have forgotten to add this into the current round of speculation®.

4) Hush’s Gentlemen v Whispermen.  I must admit I did see an influence, but the Gentlemen were far more scary.  Besides, when I saw that Buffy episode originally, I thought it was very influenced by Tim Burton.  However that could have been the Danny Elfmanesque music.

5) Clara keeps fainting.  Rather like Mike Pratt in the original Randall & Hopkirk who got bopped on the head every week, Clara (when she isn’t popping her socks) is out for the count rather a lot.  See:

(a) Bells of St John (uploaded into matrix)

(b) Cold War (faints when trying to find the sonic screwdriver)

(c) Journey to the Centre of the Tardis (knocked out by crash)

(d) Crimson Horror (okay, she got turned into a waxwork)

(e) Name of the Doctor (nearly faints when walking through the catacombs, does faint at the end)

 

[chickenelly @replies]

@drwho

Yesterday i red that CAL from the scilence of the libary is clara and she did try to protect the doctor but eventually River did. Its like moffat has been planing this for a couple years

Coincidentally I was watching Silence in the Library & Forest of the Dead yesterday on the hunt for clues, and I got excited about that idea for around a minute.  They both have the same haircut (check), a single parent father (check).  However in the flashback clip you see of Clara in the Library it is her as an adult.  Also in her voice over she does say that she’d been trying to contact the Doctor all those years and was only heard a few times – essentially only Eleven saw her.

Mind you, one of my older Bonkers Theories™ was that Clara was a kind of ‘Boys from Brazil’ figure, perpetually generated by the GI.  Admittedly the last bit was wrong but the rest could be right.  Hmmm *no pipe in my bell jar, besides the lack of air it could set fire to my lovely new bonnet*

[chickenelly @replies]

@blenkinsopthebrave

Bonkers theory™ I was thinking was this site’s trademark, but *thinks* perhaps I should quickly register it for myself *evil corporate cackle*.

I could also add cogitate© and speculate® in there too.

[chickenelly @replies]

Stuck at home waiting for a repairman to come and fix something in my flat.  Oh well, I can pass the time here.  I’ve been rewatching some of the older episodes, ie Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead [@ardaraith presumably this is where Ten is pictured in].

A couple of weeks ago there was talk about Doctor Who doing a take off of the Trek episode ‘Trouble with Tribbles’ which was used in Deep Space Nine (? I think) and it was poo-pooed as the quality of the Who episodes wasn’t good enough.  Turns out is was a red herring, and we did get a bit of a glimpse of what could be done.  I still get a little thrill when I see the ‘doctored’ clips.

In terms of where JH Doctor fits into the timeline, the flagging up of the Time War in JttCotT does seems to indicate that it should be between Eight and Nine.  Also Ecclestone appears to have been approached to take part and McGann was a bit vague about his participation or non-participation in the 50th.   I’d be pleased to see McGann taken into the fold, the big budget film was a travesty of course but as I’ve mentioned before I do enjoy Eight’s audio stories.

My bonkers theory™ is that JH Doctor will be a warmongering figure who perhaps started the Time War and when he regenerated, Nine had to take steps to finish it.

[chickenelly @replies]

Re: Themed food.

When I was at art college, the dinner ladies (presumably to while away the time) would put on ‘specials’ at Halloween.  Occasionally they’d dye the food funny colours or describe things like raisins as ‘flies’, you know the sort of thing.

It occurs to me that we can take it a step farther, by recreating food in the shape of Who monsters – ie a white pudding could be one of those maggoty things (sorry @phaseshift) from Green Death, a Sontaran is clearly a baked potato, etc.

In fact I was scoffing a baked potato with my tea last night, curses I missed the chance to fashion the foil wrapper into one of those high-necked battle uniforms.

 

[chickenelly @replies]

Re: River’s & Clara’s psychic link.

I think @phaseshift is correct that there are certainly little clues in the Neil Cross episodes.  We’ve already seen a case of a psychic link across time haven’t we?  In Hide, the psychic Emma Grayling is connected to the first time traveller who happens to be a very distant relation a g-g-g-g-g, etc, grand daughter.

[chickenelly @replies]

Oh, shucks @craig, thank you.  I do like to make an effort for the end of series.  @whohar has his bath, @Blenkinsop his home made Qantas lounge and @phaseshift his Lush bathbombs.  Me, I’ve just got Photoshop.

In terms of how River would know.  Hmmm, well I’m not one for the Clara is River bonkers theory but Clara would have read it in the History of the Time War book.

[chickenelly @replies]

Just watched it again and some observations in the form of a list (ooh, I do like a good list):

1) Clara in RoA says to the little girl that her mother told her ‘I’ll always find you’ – clearly an echo of Clara’s relationship with the Doctor.

2) I thought River as an ‘echo’ was reminiscent of Marion Cotillard’s character in Inception – she was a shade which her husband couldn’t let go of, but obviously without the murderous intent.  I also think *sob* this is the last we see of River, otherwise what was the point of the big speech plus she did fade at the end and say goodbye.

3) The graveyard and River’s ghostly appearance brought to mind Harry Potter (and before you ask, I love Harry Potter).

4) When they were walking through the underground maze to get to the Tombstone Tardis, Clara said ‘I hate catacombs’ – does this not echo something similar which was said in Time of Angels?  Possibly it might have been said by the Doctor himself.

[chickenelly @replies]

He has a beard.
Yes people – the Dark Doctor has always been the Master. Conjoined twins in the nexus spiral of time, endlessly fighting for supremacy when one leads, inevitably towards another. An ouroboros of hate eternal.
Bow down before the goatee ye mortals,and despair.

Aaaah that explains Noel Edmonds and Paul Hollywood.  I knew there was something up with those two.

[chickenelly @replies]

That was great!  ‘Introducing John Hurt as the Doctor!’

Just quickly off to the Grauniad…

 

[chickenelly @replies]

Ooh, nice new avatar @scaryb.

Great minds, etc.  I’ve just uploaded my traditional end of series attempt.  Only had time for one this year, but it seemed the most obvious.

[chickenelly @replies]

Yeees, true @jimthefish that Tinker Tailor was out 30 years ago, but I hadn’t seen it.  Besides the next day the Beeb stuck a big ‘spoiler’ warning on the web article probably as a result of lots of complaints.  Bit late for me who had clicked through only to be confronted with a large picture of ****insert image of award winning British actor, here****

[chickenelly @replies]

I too read @danmartin‘s blog but was too scared to add a comment in case I caught any spoilers.

There was one the other day about the Star Trek film and of course one kind commentator posted a huge spoiler (ie the whole point of the film).  Admittedly I suspected this spoiler but since I haven’t seen the film yet I was mightily peeved.

Speaking about being hacked off with spoilers, the worst I can remember was the BBC who told you whodunnit in their preview article for the recent film adaptation for ‘Tinker Tailor’.  The film hadn’t even come out yet!

 

[chickenelly @replies]

Thanks @craig for that link, it made me laugh out loud.  I particularly like the way that the BBC has set out the typography (I suspect the journalist might be a Star Wars Fan):

Mr Poole said he was wearing a club top and his fellow member was dressed as the fifth Doctor, as played by Peter Davison.

He said once inside the hall, he received verbal abuse from a member of the rival club and called the police.

‘Sad and pathetic’

“I was put in a police car. We were both interviewed by the police and told to stay away from each other,” he said.

Mr Poole said two other members of his club, one dressed as the 10th Doctor and the other as Judge Dredd, had waited outside the venue.

[chickenelly @replies]

Hmmm@craig et all re: Forbes’ canny marketing angle.  Has any of this actually happened or is everyone like us battening down the hatches and hiding behind the sofa?

I see a flaw in that marketing angle….

[chickenelly @replies]

All it needs is K9 as Toto, Pertwee as Worzel Gummidge and it will be complete…

[chickenelly @replies]

Hello @scaryb

Didn’t have time at work to add to my working theories but your additions do add fuel to the fire.  Unfortunately, even after all this time I still don’t have anything to add or form it into a proper (in)coherent bonkers theory™

I made a slight error of judgement when compiling my list this morning.  Because I couldn’t remember all the episodes off hand, I looked up ‘Doctor Who series 7’ on google!  In my defence the caffeine had not kicked in.  Thankfully all that I glimpsed was the top entry which said something along the lines of ‘spoiler photo’ but thankfully wasn’t reproduced on that page.  *phew*

 

[chickenelly @replies]

What? Cricket again?  Even without Qantas Club lounge?

Anyway, I’ll tentatively dip my toe in with a vague, unformed theory.  As many have noted there is a distinct theme of either artificial reality or an artificial being/body going on in many of the episodes of the Clara bits of this series:

1) Asylum of the Daleks – stalk eyed lady; the dancing Daleks; Clara in her own world inside a Dalek

2) Snowmen – well the snowmen

3) Bells of St John – spoonheads; GI taking over people who work in the Shard

4) Coldwar – Icewarrior suit being mistaken for real thing

5) Hide – pocket universe

6) Centre of the Tardis – different realities; confusing maze

7) Crimson Horror – waxy people in bell jars

8) Nightmare in Silver – the Cybermen

Hmmm, I was hoping once I’d written it would coagulate into a lovely theory.  Well it is early in the morning here, maybe some coffee will help…

[chickenelly @replies]

Oh there is a little article about sending out the DVDs too early to pre-orders: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-22508502

No spoilers that I can see, other than a picture from the rehearsal for the 50th which most of us have seen.  If not then you’ve been warned…

[chickenelly @replies]

Gawd!  I was just listening to BBC Radio 5 at work, and another version of the trailer I was moaning about on Saturday was played.

Even radio isn’t safe! *shakes fist at BBC marketing team*

[chickenelly @replies]

Oooh @craig that is very impressive, especially for a Sunday – weekdays could be less impressive (or more impressive) as a number of us are also accessing the site from work *shhhhh*.

 

[chickenelly @replies]

Oooh I’ve not used the music thread before, here goes.

I was out on Sunday evening seeing the David Bowie exhibition at the Victoria & Albert Museum. All the day tickets were sold out weeks ago, but they’d opened up limited places on Sundays until 9pm (which I presume are all gone too).

Anyway, it was very well done and must have had a lot of input from the man himself. A lot of the videos I’d seen before but this one made me chuckle. Bowie dressed like a cross between Bertie Bassett and a Weeble…

[chickenelly @replies]

Been out this evening and just got back to find everyone hiding behind the sofa.

In light of the potential horror of actual spoilers, I’m not sure if Dan should do the normal speculative run up to the end of the series.  Besides, they keep closing the weekly blog early and the classic episode ones have been limping along.

Room behind the sofa for another?

[chickenelly @replies]

@phaseshift

Re: chess

Even I was thinking Fenric and I can’t remember the original series very well (all picked up from my fellow enthusiasts here).

Had a peep over on the Grauniad and this week it’s beaten the record for descending into negativity.  I must admit I did find the children a bit pointless to the story, but thankfully they were turned into cyber zombies quite quickly (plus they weren’t singing either which can only be a good thing).

[chickenelly @replies]

@timeloop

Oh the ‘He Said She Said’ is fine, stay away from the BBC trail which will be playing on the main channels (as opposed to the red button).

 

[chickenelly @replies]

@pedant, @bluesqueakpip & @thommck

It was the trail I meant which came on just after the Star Trek thingummy.  It seemed to give quite a bit away, what with the voice over and all.

However if the Moff says it doesn’t give anything away, I’m now speculating on why that should be instead.

Don’t go near the telly for the next week!

[chickenelly @replies]

WTF?

Did you all see the preview of the series finale which just played on BBC2?  *shakes fist* Well I might as well give up speculating since it just told you who Clara was…

[chickenelly @replies]

@miapatrick

Aaah, the lovely Bentham.  Unfortunately his head is no longer on display *adjusts wig* as some students pinched it during rag week.  They got it back but have put it out of harm’s way.  For gothic fans here is Jezza.

Before you ask, I used to work for the university which the said students studied at…

[chickenelly @replies]

@blenkinsopthebrave

I knew all those years at art college weren’t wasted.  Who’d have thought when I graduated all those years ago that I’d be able to use my skills on the Doctor Who forum blogs by fashioning a very fetching avatar (thank you) and dribble on about obscure 18th & 19th century eccentrics.

Speaking of avatars, mine is in need of a temporary revamp to mark the end of the series, hmmm *thinks….*

[chickenelly @replies]

@haveyoufedthefish & @bluesqueakpip

My fetching wig and top hat are held on the same way as Frankie Howerd’s ‘hair’ and the occasional wig he’d stick on top of that.  Either that or by the power of Photoshop.

 

 

[chickenelly @replies]

@miapatrick
Not wishing to be a pedant *puts on pedant’s wig and struts about* but

regarding Victorian display- there really was, including very grotesque arrangements including baby skeletons holding preserved pieces of human organs. A kind of art meets parable (death comes to us all) meets scientific display

I think you mean the displays of Frederik Ruysch, see: http://www.zymoglyphic.org/exhibits/ruysch/ruysch1.jpg

who is much earlier – 17th/early 18th century.  Ruysch perfected a method of preserving body parts, usually children as he worked as a man-midwife and was also the Amsterdam coroner so could get his hands on them more easily.  You’re right that his work is about the intransigence of life, with little mottos such as ‘Life is but a bubble’.   Before you ask, part of my degree dissertation covered his work (well it was art college after all).

There was a lot of experimentation regarding preservation, but it’s far more disturbing than that.  Here’s a wikipedia link to Hannah Beswick the ‘Manchester Mummy‘ a bit earlier again, but she was still ‘hanging about’ until the mid 19th century.  My favourite is Mrs Van Butchell though.  Her husband Martin Van Butchell was, to be fair, a bit bonkers. Here he is on his horse:

If I recall, for special occasions he’d paint it purple with yellow spots and ride it about town.

[chickenelly @replies]

Just a quick post before beddie-byes….

It was a fun episode, agreed the lobster was a bit of a let down but hey you can’t have everything.  Things which occur:

1) I thought the petrified people in the jars reminded me of that Tales of the Unexpected story *spoiler* where the landlady bumps off her lodgers so they never leave [that episode gave me the creeps for weeks].

2) Robots.  I’m thinking that it can’t be a coincidence that one of the rooms we are shown in JttCotT is a place where any ‘machine’ can be built.  I use the inverted commas as a bit later the Doctor is talking about genes.  Could Clara be built by the Tardis and in fact (using the imagery of mothers and daughters) be truly its offspring?

Oh yes Diana Rigg & Rachel Stirling were great.

[chickenelly @replies]

I’ve just finished reading ‘Summer Falls’  (only a couple of quid on the Kindle) and there are a number of themes in it which crop up in this series.  Not going into any details so as not to spoil it for others who’ve not read it yet, but I don’t think it is about Amy.  I think the child in it is Clara’s mother – there is a reference to her having to learn how to make souffles and omelettes.  Also petrichor is described too – the smell left when the Tardis dematerialises.

It was an enjoyable read though.  Sort of a Doctorr Who meets Pollyanna/Famous Five.

 

 

[chickenelly @replies]

…just rewatched the episode to hoover up any clues and spots I may have missed.  One thing which occurred, bringing us back to the fairy tale/story telling idea is that three brothers/sisters is a familiar trope in these kind of stories.  Their Dutch names also stood out for me and put me in mind of Washington Irving – particularly Rip Van Winkle.  As it is a story about time passing then no-one remembering you it might be another bit of catnip for us speculators.

Oh, speaking of which SPE-CU-LATE is another Dalekism surely?

 

[chickenelly @replies]

…it’s taken me an hour and a half to get through all the above, haven’t bothered with the Grauniad of course (for nesting and moaning minnie reasons).

I’ve not watched the episode again yet, just off to do so now but initial thoughts:

1) I agree with @phileasf‘s Groundhog Day idea, that Clara & the Doctor are learning each time they go through the loop.  Clara reads the Time War book before the History of Gallifrey bottle dribbles all over her, but the latter puts the former in context.  We cannot be seeing just one of these loops (hence toasty people) but fragments of a few strung together.

2) The Time War book isn’t in Gallifreyan as who would have written it?  As the old phrase goes, history is written by the winners, the Timelords are all in a time lock somewhere.  Going right back to the second episode in the Ecclestone series, the tree lady knew who the Doctor was and his history.  Instead the book will have been written by some intergalactic Pliny the Younger figure.

3) Bonkers theory (a).  I like the idea that Clara is a construct of the Doctor to remind him of something.  It puts me in mind of a number of other sci fi movies/stories such as (a reverse) Total Recall or Zaphod Beeblebrox in the second radio series of H2G2.  Alternatively his memory could already be gone and it is more along the lines of Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind.

4) Bonkers theory (b).  I’ve been cogitating (©Jimthefish) on the idea that perhaps instead of the Tardis not liking Clara it is trying to protect her from the Doctor.  For instance not letting her in is its way of trying to put her off travelling with the Doctor.  Again, to reference the second radio series of H2G2, the sentient lift doesn’t want to take Zaphod Beeblebrox up to his destination as it is scared for the future.  The Tardis can see all the future, so it might be its way of trying to prevent it.  

[chickenelly @replies]

…bit late to the party but finally had time to watch it and it was great.  Two corkers in a row.  The toasted Clara was even creepier than the ‘ghost’ last week.

Went onto the Grauniad and it was full of people moaning how they were peeling off labels on dvds they were so bored.  I think I might be living in a parallel universe as I had real problems (as you know) with the kiddie singing episode but most Guardian posters were raving about how touching it all was.

It’s going to take me a while to catch up with everyone’s posts so won’t air my thoughts in detail yet as others have probably pointed the same things out.  Also this episode clearly needs a rewatch…

[chickenelly @replies]

…Hmmm *thinks* Fishenelly not quite as snappy as Chickenelly….

Besides, unlike here, I don’t think the Grauniad lets you change your name.  You might have to open another account.

[chickenelly @replies]

Re: early closure of the Grauniad thread

That is odd, as @phaseshift posted over there on another Who thread, the commenting periods are getting shorter and shorter.  It’s almost as if we’ve got a mole working there who closes down stuff early in order to boost numbers here…

If you’ve got the Google Chrome fix and arrange the thread by timestamp, the penultimate comment is from @juniperfish giving a link to our lovely new home *he he*.

[Author]

Posts