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@brewski – What was the Mummy’s original mission? If he is acting on buggy code now, what was he SUPPOSED to do? Seek out the weakest and…. what?

excellent question! perhaps he was a medic, whose job is to tend to the wounded? he would have to choose the most wounded to save first, then the next most wounded, and so forth, just like the mummy… with the twist that now he’s not saving any of them, at all, but using their lifeforce to continue his own existence! the monster that’s not a monster by choice, but by accident, or made by someone else. like the teller…

@bluesqueakpip @jimthefish – i will concede that the travelling part of the doctor’s life is not an addiction for him, but now you have to convince me that he’s not addicted to saving people/being a hero! 🙂

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@bluesqueakpip – The Doctor can stop – he proved that with his 1000 year, to the death stay on Trenzalore. He’s a ‘professional gambler’ – but he’s not addicted. As long as someone needs him to stop, he can stop. And he’s quite prepared to remain stopped for the rest of his life

i’m not so sure. i think he stopped travelling the universe, in that case, simply because of the threat of the time war breaking out again. the time he spent on trenzalore was one, long, drawn-out “episode” (a stalemate, actually) where he did what he had to do, as he was the only one who could have done so (with considerable help from the papal mainframe). he stayed to protect the town from invading forces, yes, but those forces were only there because of the time lords on the other side of the crack. the peace he found (and helped to maintain) while defending christmas for 800 or so years was the easier choice, over the unrest and turmoil that he would cause if he left to go do his own thing. it wasn’t a completely altruistic thing…

and he was tempted to leave, once the tardis returned after her long absence. i thought that was clear. but he didn’t retire to christmas, to be a beekeeper, or a curator, or whatever (as he had mentioned before that he thought he might like to do), he became its default defender til either the time lords went away, or the invading forces went away… or til he died, whichever came first. 🙂 he did sulk up on that cloud in victorian london after losing amy and rory, but that was an extenuating circumstance, too. no, i think the doctor has time travelling in his dna, now, and would only give it up for some extraordinary reason. like death, of course. but also, if my thought is correct that the moment has made him a de facto immortal, it could undo that at some point, once his punishment is complete…

 

i sort of agree about the daleks, though. i doubt the writers would get rid of them altogether, but i wouldn’t put it past them that they have a plan to make them less one-dimensionally evil. i expect their next appearance might reveal that there’s a “non-exterminating” faction that has grown from the fruit that is rusty, the first “good” dalek…

however, regarding the time lords, the doctor has a tumultuous relationship with his own race, as well (admittedly, not a daleky murderous one, except for a few examples, such as the rani and the master). i don’t think it’s a given that they would take up the doctor’s banner, upon his retirement or death, and go out into the universe to fight evil, and to right the wrongs in life for the “lesser” peoples of the universe. indeed, if they are returned to the prime universe of who at some point, at all, i would expect them to adopt (or try to continue) a hands-off approach: the very non-interference rule that the doctor challenged, back when he first ran away…

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@melloyello – it’s funny, but i was looking forward to an episode without clara, too, and was completely surprised that she was there. i thought she would be absent for a week, maybe two, then brought back to “redeem” herself, for her mistrust of the doctor. but, i think her redemption played out nicely in this episode, and i’m glad she was there. (not the least because of the short hair and the flapper girl outfit! she is a handsome woman… lol)

now, why is danny trying to get her out of the doctor’s life? that’s a question that really needs an answer…

i’m sorry that you don’t like the personal, dramatic nature of the clara/danny vs doctor arc, but i’m enjoying her much more this series than i did when she was “just” the impossible girl. she’s no longer a pinocchio, she’s developed into an actual person, now. and i’m quite interested to see how far she goes…

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@pedant – But that was The Moment – it was the Time Lords who gave him the extra regenerations in response to Clara’s entreaty.

ah, that’s what we were led to believe, based upon clara’s plea into the crack, and the subsequent opening of the crack in the sky above christmas… but the one doesn’t absolutely lead to the other! not in a moffat/who universe, anyway! 🙂

(just playing devil’s advocate, here. i, too, think it was the time lords, keeping their only operative/advocate in our universe going, so as to return one day, themselves. but i wouldn’t be surprised to have been deceived…)

my point about the moment, however, was that ten, eleven, and the war doctor were all still going to push the button together, and would have, had clara not been there. the man (men) that he is would still have gotten it wrong without her. yes, the moment facilitated the possible future by getting her there, and gallifrey was saved, but it could still be that he is effectively “immortal” (because of the moment’s judgment), because of that initial decision to push the button. that condition inflicted upon him due to his initial action isn’t necessarily wiped away because the three of him finally found a different solution. re-writing time didn’t re-write his soul. at least, that’s how i see it… 🙂

given the dialogue in today’s episode, between clara and the doctor, it’s clear that he has never tried to stop doing what he’s doing (she has the “addiction,” as she’s the one trying to quit). he simply does what he does, and perhaps doesn’t even question “why” (possibly never has?), consumed, as he seems to be, with the desire to right wrongs all throughout space and time. which (again, to my mind) smacks a little bit of desperation, to get the balance of his soul back towards the “good” that it had been, before that first use of the moment. removing gallifrey to a bubble universe hasn’t completely scrubbed away the blood on his hands (or the memory of it, at any rate)…

as lady macbeth would say, “out, damned spot! out, i say!”

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@bluesqueakpip – The Doctor can’t win – unless the Daleks surrender.

and then the cybermen, the weeping angels, the sontarans, the atraxi, the master… and the blorgons! etc. etc. 🙂

i wonder if the doctor can’t ever stop because the moment sentenced him to live? they fixed what he did (in ‘the day of the doctor’), but they didn’t fix his decision to do it…

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@devilishrobby – i think the doctor can sense other timelords, so no, i don’t think the engineer is one. he’s just someone whose career is working on (space) ships, so the tardis innards wouldn’t be too unfamiliar to him, in a strictly “spacecraft” sense. he does say something like, “i won’t pretend to understand half of it,” before remarking that the “drive stacks” need replacing…

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@scaryb – i think seyhall’s post is a summary of an old peter davison episode, featuring the rani? out of place, yes, but not a spoiler, per se…

(unless you’ve not seen any of davison’s run!)

🙂

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@badwulf – One thing I think I missed in this episode was *why* it was going after the weakest. The Mummy was clearly powerful enough to kill anyone it chose, so why go after the weakest?

great question! not very honourable behaviour for a soldier, right? perhaps the malfunctioning tech is responsible… or, the mummy was being used by missy and/or GUS, to play games with the doctor?

did anyone else think of CAL (re: GUS)? almost expected (hoped) that river would put in an appearance in her archaeologist role! chief engineer perkins… perhaps he knows more about GUS’s intentions than we were shown? i expect to see him in a future episode…

also, at the end, i thought that clara’s call to danny was to let him know that she was definitely leaving, for good, but that she changed her mind at the last minute? in essence, lying to danny, and choosing the doctor. will have to pay closer attention upon rewatching…

i’ve gotten the feeling a couple of times that danny is trying to separate clara from the doctor, whilst someone else was trying to keep them together (the woman in the shop, in ‘deep breath’ and ‘the bells of st john’)…

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@purofilion – Sometimes I think we tend to see things not as they are, but as we are.

i know i’m guilty of this! but i wonder, aren’t most people the same? after all, we all see the objective world through (individual) subjective eyes…

as for being annoyed (or annoying)… no worries.  i will take no offense, and mean none (and will always try to extend that courtesy to everyone). as a rule, when i’m online, i refuse to allow the slings and arrows of outrageous posts to get at me. life is too short, and only getting shorter (as my grey hairs constantly remind me)! thankfully, this forum is civilized, and just plain nice, compared to some other places i’ve visited…

so if you post something “bitey,” i’ll just assume it’s for someone else!

🙂

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and btw, i like this episode more, now that i’ve read everyone else’s reactions to it. my only real GOL (“groan out loud”) moment was the space dragon immediately laying an egg the same size and appearance of the one it just hatched out of (apparently in the exact orbit, too). but i’m sure there are many fantastical ways to explain the phenomenon, which are all secondary to the story of whatever’s happening between clara and the doctor. (sorry, sci-fi firsters. i, too, wish we could have solid science and fantasy, together, always… but sometimes we only get sci-fa! lol)

one point i haven’t seen referenced, though… “henry, go back and prime the bombs.” inept astronaut guy who was sent back to “turn on” the nukes, did he get killed after doing that, or before he even made it back to the shuttle? because, if he didn’t make it back to the shuttle, then nothing would have happened if they pushed the button at the end, anyway, right? or did i miss something?!

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to whomever originally came up with the idea that clara may be some sort of “time lady,” thank you! i think it goes all the way back to ‘the snowmen,’ when she reveals that she was born behind a clock face? i’ve been thinking this is a good direction in which to take her character, whether she acquires her “timey-ness” because of her travels in (or clinging to!) the tardis, or whether she’s a chameleon arched timelord. or ____________ (insert other theory here).

if moffat is intending something along these lines… perhaps the doctor already knows (or strongly suspects) what’s happening? and he is literally “training” her to assume the title (and duties) of a timelord? i had the thought today that maybe his chalkboard ruminations are to do with building her a tardis of her own? (also assuming the makeshift console of ‘the doctor’s wife’ survived.) for someone who can harness the power of the eye of harmony within his own tardis, i don’t think it’s beyond the scope of the doctor’s abilities to build one from scratch. the tardis has that room that can make the necessary parts (‘journey to the centre of the tardis’), and beyond that all that’s needed is… er, time…

🙂

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@scaryb – She’s also annoyed with the Doctor for making her work out the dilemma for herself (tho he clearly signposted it before nipping off), for being right, and for not prioritising humans (and Clara) over the moon dragon.

to add to this, i think that clara, in her “official” capacity as the one who cares (for the doctor, so he doesn’t have to), might have just been a wee bit pissed off because of the enormity of the “you care for this so i don’t have to” that he dumped into her lap, out of the blue. which is to say, perhaps she took offense this time, because he (seemingly) stopped even pretending to care about the fates of so many humans (or even the space dragon baby). the abruptness of his leaving it in her lap explains her anger. or so i think, at any rate…

but i do think, also, that danny’s influence has driven a bit of a wedge between them. maybe not maliciously, or intentionally, but the doctor is the “third wheel” in clara’s love life, more and more each time he appears. there’s no relationship on earth that will allow such a high level of friendship (and adventure) to persist, if the relationship is to survive. or am i being overly pessimistic?! lol…

🙂

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@janetteb – the raston warrior robot is actually from peter davison’s run, appearing in the 20th anniversary special, ‘the five doctors.’ though, in the scene where it kills all those cybermen, the third doctor is the one who recognizes it.

🙂

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@idiotsavon – i tried to find some significance in the positions of the chess pieces, but had no luck. in the first scene, when the kids are playing football on the board, the white king has the black king and queen on either side, but logically, that can’t happen (or wouldn’t?) in a real game of chess. whether it’s a “clue” of some sort remains to be seen, but i’m not clever enough to figure it out beforehand…

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@drben – I’m more convinced than ever that Clara is not long for this world. (All that talk about keeping her safe, etc.) I’m sure this has been talked about before, but my guess is that Clara will die (or “die”) and turn up in the Nethersphere, and the Doctor and Danny will go after her.

indeed, perhaps clara is already in the nethersphere, from her jumping into the doctor’s decaying timestream?

oooh, this makes me wonder, for “how long” has the nethersphere been accepting dead people, or more specifically, how long has missy been collecting people who died as a result of their association with the doctor? this could explain “ghost” river showing up in ‘the name of the doctor,’ outside her limbo in the CAL mainframe! and now that twelve has referenced her in-show, i’m hoping for another guest appearance later in the series…

it also makes it quite possible that other people/creatures could be brought back from previous seasons!

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@idiotsavon – thank you for the screen grab. i wonder if that’s an actual poster used in schools in britain, as part of an anti-bullying campaign? i would wager that there’s some similar federal effort here in the states… 🙂

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@purofilion @janetteb – You mention Danny rearranging the gizmos. I could not work out what he was up to there. Why would he do that?

i don’t think he did. the doctor was luring the blitzer into that circle of gizmos, and was alarmed that they were blinking red instead of green. danny had upset the plan by moving that first one (perhaps taking it “offline?”). he enters the room holding it (blinking red like the others), to confront the doctor, but when he is attacked by the blitzer, he jumps, and loses it. it hits the floor and re-sets (apparently), turning green again. then the doctor opens the temporal thingy using his sonic…

i didn’t have a problem with all that, though it was fairly confusing. but, when clara enters the room, she runs over to danny while he’s actively trying not to get sucked into the temporal rift! my first thought was that her momentum should have carried her past him, straight into oblivion!! but that would have ended the episode pretty abruptly, i guess? lol

so maybe the temporal rift is like a mini black hole, with an event horizon, and danny was on the edge of crossing over it? so clara was safe so long as she was behind him? makes just enough sense, now that i think about it!

🙂

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@arbutus – i do NOT read the comments elsewhere! lol…

nor do i engage the few trolls who pop in here, from time to time. i prefer to (in full dalek mode): AC-CEN-TU-ATE… the positive!

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@fivefaces – I wonder if this is the same poster that appears in Let’s Kill Hitler, during the early scenes where Mels keeps getting into trouble at the school? (I don’t have that episode on video to check.)

neither do i. and a quick youtube check didn’t turn up anything, either. perhaps some other kind soul here can do the legwork for us? 🙂

i bet it is, though. i seem to remember back then, that it led to more speculation about the silents continuing to hang about, in the “background” (which they sort of did, all through smith’s remaining episodes)…

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@pedant @brewski –  i’m so embarrassed that i didn’t “hear” the floyd quote! thanks for pointing that out. in my defense, though, ‘the wall’ is my least-played floyd album, since the acrimonious split of the ’80’s. i’m firmly on david gilmour’s “side,” and still love the “spacier” early ’70’s stuff, and the post-waters efforts. ‘the wall’ really should have been roger’s first solo album…

also (apologies if this has been pointed out on the music thread, which i haven’t visited in a long time), in the ’87-’88 live versions of “one of these days,” gilmour quotes the doctor who theme (and it fits the mood of the tune perfectly!). he is a fan of the show (at least the classic show), and he was a longtime friend of douglas adams (who later appeared on stage with the band on the ’94 tour, if i’m recalling correctly)…

@arbutus – exactly what I am loving about the new Doctor: he’s intense, he’s clever, he’s egotistic, he’s funny. I keep reading that people feel he has no charm, but I think he has tons of it.

i agree! but the “funny” is the key, for me. without that, to take the edge off of the intensity and the ego, it would be harder to root for him, or to accept his alien-ness. which applies to house’s character, as well, for who could otherwise sympathize with such a person in real life? (i admit, also, that i didn’t give john larroquette’s show a watch, as i had been a huge fan of ‘night court,’ and i thought the premises were too similar. or maybe i had just had enough of that brand of sitcom, at that point? idk…)

😉

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@fivefaces – yes, it’s by the door in the teacher’s lounge. there’s a pic of it in the very first post of this thread, courtesy of our emperor, craig… 🙂

a couple of other things i’ve been thinking…

should we believe the doctor when he tells clara that the droid monster has enough firepower to ravage the earth? is it possible that he was playing up the danger, just to get attention, or some unspecified reaction from her? i tend not to believe so… but then, i trust the doctor implicitly, just like clara!

also, i’ve figured out why i love capaldi’s take on the doctor. he reminds me a great deal of hugh laurie, as ‘house!’ (i remember that my roommate even thought laurie was the new doctor, and i had to prove to her that they are, indeed, two different actors.) i would love to see capaldi stick around for as long as ‘house’ was with us (7, or so, seasons?), though i doubt he’ll stay that long. there was some brilliant writing in that series, as well, and it was quite dark and brooding, a lot of the time (which is something i love)…

 

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@lisa – i believe it’s “otters.” clara’s pronunciation is much clearer than the doctor’s… 🙂

i have to admit, i totally missed the whole “eleven lookalike” theme first time round! d’oh! (on second viewing, i thought it deliciously hilarious.)

so, around the 20:50 mark, when clara is looking in the caretaker’s room for the doctor, does anyone else hear a silent-like hissing? it’s barely audible over the music, but it sounds like something hissing, just before she asks, “are you invisible?”

perhaps i’m reading too much into that poster: break the silence, speak up about bullying…

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@purofilion – “Anyway, imagine if Donna could have been spirited away and given an ‘uber brain’ -how wonderful. As it was, she did get a lottery ticket.”

i can’t express how much i would love it if donna could be brought back for just one episode, so that the doctor could find a way to fix that particular mistake (if no other)! she will probably always be my favourite companion. though i’m sure many would groan and whine if moffat decided to undo the tragedy of her story, it would be less of a “retcon” than bringing gallifrey back from destruction…

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@bluesqueakpip – ah, i think i see what you mean. he calculated that gallifrey would be placed into stasis (like the zygons were), but in actuality “saved” it to a different (pocket) universe, entirely (behind the crack, on trenzalore)? so now his blackboard calculating is simply to reinstate gallifrey to our known (prime) universe…

thank you, i think that serves quite well as an explanation, for me!

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@purofilion  -but the whole ship didn’t look very ‘organised’ and sleek, did it?

having gone back for a look, it looks more like an actual time capsule, than a full-blown space-faring ship. no rear engines, or “wings,” that i could discern…

what i do notice, however, is a panel-like structure in the distance, out beyond the ship, and a furrow leading to it, as if it crash landed! (and some sort of panel arrays closer to the foreground, and to the front, with what looks like a smashed up nose/debris field?) so, did orson (and/or a companion traveller) go outside at some point, and put those things there? or is that all debris from a crash?!

i guess i’m so used to the tardis materializing all the time, that i think any time-travelling ship should just come into existence without actually moving! so, upon reflection, i now think his ship had to travel through space and time, and therefore crashed there.

as to organized, i think the state of dis-organization is a result solely of the six months he’s been stranded there, (presumably) alone?

er, maybe that’s all well beyond the scope of your post, but my brain is searching for any clue! and once i’m on a scent, my nose has to follow till my brain is satisfied… 🙂

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@oblique – re: post 31905 – to every last detail? of course not. (and they do throw in stuff just for effect, here and there.) but with a general, overarching story in the background? absolutely. they are professional writers, and i (at least) believe they do a stellar job. i also believe moffat may have had some of this stuff in mind for years, now…

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@wcasey5 – maybe, the doctor gave orson a simple description of clara? big eyes, wide face, and a very nice black evening dress? 😉

more likely, tho, he showed him her face on the console screen, just as he and clara later watched the doctor open the locked door…

🙂

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@bluesqueakpip – good answer! 🙂

but, i thought all the calculations were done by the sonic, in the 400 years between the war doctor and eleven? i had been thinking the chalkboard stuff is twelve’s way of trying to find a way to bring gallifrey back into the regular universe, till i got hung up on this question of when did he pop off to aid in it’s hiding! maybe it’s one of those cases, tho, that since his regeneration, he only knows that he will have to go off to hide it, but not necessarily when? i believe the actors call it a “moffat loop,” in the ‘extra?’ and, oh, how it fills me ‘ead with timey-wimey!!!

@phileasf – excellent spot on the extra chair! i’ve watched it three times, now, and didn’t make that simple connection! but that’s why i love this forum… so many other eyes watching, and ears listening! and this is an example of why i consider the writing for the show to be of the highest quality. not only is it subtle and nuanced, but it allows (maybe even encourages?) our rampant speculating…

🙂

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@handles – i forgot to mention the exquisite shorts that moffat produced, like “first night,” and “last night,” that added a bit to our knowledge of river’s relationship with eleven. if you haven’t seen those, check them out on youtube. “extra” knowledge isn’t exactly necessary, but it surely can’t hurt, sometimes, especially if it adds to or enhances our understanding of the series as a whole… 🙂

Someone else needs to talk to the higher ups though, since I suspect they will not be taking my advise anytime soon after reading my Dino Missy theory.

lol, don’t give up so soon! if your dino missy theory doesn’t hold up for this series, maybe you’ve still planted a seed of an idea in moffat’s (or some future writer’s) brain!!

😉

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@janetteb – Firstly Orson. When we first meet him he seems happy, pleased to have been rescued but his demeanour changes about the time he realises who Clara is. I think when the Doctor asks about old photos the expression on his face implies that he does recognise Clara but cannot admit it. Everyone in this episode is keeping secrets except the Doctor.

LOL! i know what you are saying there, but do you really think the doctor doesn’t have a billion more secrets he’s keeping from his companions (and from us)?  i’m of the opinion that the only time the doctor is completely honest is when he’s admitting he’s made a mistake (as in ‘deep breath,’ where he’d assumed all along that HFM placed the ad in the paper)… or when he’s apologizing for something!

if he wasn’t so adamant about being a doctor, i’d bet money that he’s a lawyer, the way he lies and withholds information so much…

🙂 🙂 🙂

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@scaryb – (Just a thought – Gallifrey is no longer timelocked, but just (very well) hidden (another hidden thing?) after the Doctors zapped it away from the Dalek assault in Day of the Doctor. Maybe that’s why they were able to land on it, in its past. Its present whereabouts may not be accessible but its previous where((and when)-abouts are accessible again. At least when the TARDIS safeties are off.

this point makes sense to me, but it also touches on something i’ve been wondering since ‘deep breath.’ at what point in twelve’s timeline will he go off to help remove the previously doomed gallifrey from the universe, as portrayed in ‘the day of the doctor?’ moffat has stated that he always intended for that scene to be in there, even before the twelfth doctor was cast, so does he plan to reveal to us exactly when that decision is made (in the current, or possibly even the next, series)?

it appears obvious to me (and, so, probably ISN’T obvious at all?) that one of the things twelve has forgotten is that gallifrey is hidden away in a pocket universe. it could also partly be why he’s wondering if he’s “a good man” (i.e. he still thinks he destroyed all those children on gallifrey)? eleven knew, before (and because) he regenerated, that he had successfully moved gallifrey, but does twelve? i don’t think so. and, as for the rest of this series (and however many others capaldi sticks around for), i don’t think the doctor can have it as his mission to restore gallifrey, until he regains those memories…

or am i missing something?!

 

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@arbutus – i share your p.o.v. re: post #31834. i would rather all the info be in the episode, too. each ep would have to be about 70 mins, tho, to do so comfortably (so, here in america, where there are commercial interruptions, 90 mins would be perfect). ‘deep breath,’ for me, felt just a tad too long, with just a tad of “padding” in it, but since most eps are 45-50 mins, it felt more like they were including bonus minutes, and deleted scenes! i like those extra minutes that allow an episode to breathe a little, and not feel rushed…

“I now feel a little bit like the person being shown a shape and asked “What is it?”, and after agonizing over all the possibilities, I’m told, “It’s a triangle.”” i have felt this way since the end of tennant’s time! in my (our) efforts to try to guess what’s going on, in the long game, i (we) explore every conceivable avenue of twists and turns, when the actual way the story arcs unfold is rather straightforward and linear! (if only in hindsight.) i (we) do so happily, tho, because it’s a fun way to “interact” with my (our) favourite show. and i don’t want that to change, as it’s become half the fun of watching the show! i really do respect how moffat has elevated the craft of writing an episode, to squeeze in all that he possibly can, while keeping it within the allotted 45-50 runtime. in that sense, i’m grateful that they can do something like ‘dw extra,’ to give that tiny bit of extra exposition that (perhaps) they weren’t able to cram into the final broadcast version. (i loved the prequels of the last couple seasons of matt’s run for the same reason…)

having said all that, tho, most of what was presented in the ‘extra’ for ‘listen’ can be arrived at just by watching the show, i think. it may just take multiple watches, for some of us (and a superhuman ability to recognize a triangle when we see one)!! lol.

🙂

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@phaseshift – ah, thank you for that clarification. i remember someone upstream hinting that the extra proved who the boy in the bed is, and that’s why i went looking for it. but there were a few other things in there that i didn’t want to point out, without asking. i still think i will use my “extra” knowledge judiciously, so as not to spoil the fun for those who want to ignore the extras…

having said that, @Joehovah – having watched the ‘extra’ for this episode, it seems that orson is on his own, from the start. he gives us a tour of his ship, and shows how everything is set up for him, with no mention of anyone else to share his stuff with. and, he is shown, quite clearly (in the red spacesuit), albeit off-camera, saving the doctor…

 

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@craig – (and other mods who might be “listen”ing!)

would it be possible to start ‘doctor who extra’ threads, for each of the episodes? i just saw the one for this ep, and i know i shouldn’t mention anything from it, as it would certainly detract from all the great theorizing going on. but i don’t want to enter the ‘spoilers’ thread, either, for obvious reasons! the ‘extra’ stuff is great, but it makes it really difficult to not spoil everyone’s fun here in the actual thread…

you guys do a great job of policing us here, and i don’t want to make your job harder! lol. but the only other way to keep my mouth shut would be to ignore the ‘extras’ altogether, and that might prove extremely hard to do!

thanks!

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@handles – i, too, think the one on the bed was real, at least. i’ve paused to try to get a good look at it, and it has human-ish eyes. but also sort of doctor-ish…

😉

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@Joehovah – welcome! and, excellent spot on the mystery of where the other crew member is! (if there was one.) it really opens up the possibilities for some darker stuff to be going on (such as, perhaps orson murdered the other, or he/she wandered out of the ship, to an uncertain fate). i don’t agree that orson’s hand is placed strangely, but i do agree that possibly more happened when he went to rescue the doctor than what was shown. we are led to believe he did the saving, but it isn’t explicitly shown…

🙂

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thank you @arbutus – i was just about to say this, too…

@skywalkerwho     “Despite the TARDIS having gone there, I don’t think that it would be possible for the Daleks or anyone else to do it the same way. The TARDIS is nothing like any other space craft or time machine. She is sentient, for one thing, and psychic, for another.”

also, the doctor has travelled more than any other timelord, by far (as told in ‘the name of the doctor’). what dalek, or dalek ship, has that track record? they may have time travel capability, but they certainly aren’t “time lords.”

another example, river’s wrist thingy. it’s a cheap, unpleasant way to time travel, but would it get her to the end of the universe (and back)? or past the timelock of gallifrey? i doubt it.

as for the timelock, i have always assumed the doctor did that. and if so, he would surely be the one person who could “easily” remove and/or modify it, if need or opportunity arose? but, as well, the moment could get around the timelock, and it was timelord tech, so why not the tardis?

🙂

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@hisdreamer – welcome!

i took the cloister bell going off to be a general warning, that the integrity of the tardis itself was in danger from the atmospheric pressures and such becoming too great to withstand. they were at the end of everything, after all, perhaps that sun had just gone super nova, and the planet was about to be vapourized? i’m of the opinion at the moment that there was nothing “real” out there (except the very real death of all time and space), only the doctor’s fears (and hopes?).

but i’ll gladly be proven wrong on any of these ideas!!

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@devilishrobby – that is, indeed, how i watch each episode!! there’s so much detail you miss, if you don’t block out distracting noises like fans, and computers, and roommates!

did everyone catch the broken glass sound, just after clara mistakenly calls danny “rupert,” in the restaurant? no one reacted, which i thought was odd. usually, all eyes in a restaurant look for the source of misfortune when a glass is broken, or some plates crash to the floor. but, it could just be the writers (or sound people) being clever…

of course, no one seemed to react when a man in a spacesuit walked in from the kitchen, either! 🙂

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a general musing…

what was on the other side of that door, at the end of the universe? was it something/someone the doctor recognized? or was it something/someone that took him completely by surprise? (didn’t ten take martha there, too, at one point? or was it eleven and amy? i think the doctor has been to that same “end” of everything a few times!)

was it something “real,” like an adversary, or a different version of himself, even? (lol, or river in an impossible astronaut suit?!) or was it something metaphysical, like the light you (supposedly) see as you’re dying? (as they were at the very end of the universe, and time, could missy’s heaven/paradise still exist then, or beyond?)

i wonder if we will get an answer, later in the series. that wound on the doctor’s head looked like it was inflicted by someone/something, but perhaps he was just bonked by something flying about due to the decompression of the room? he was certainly rescued by orson quite easily, so it was a pretty feeble attempt to kill him, if it was indeed someone trying to do so. the creature from ‘midnight’ or the thing from ‘the satan pit’ would (presumably) have possessed his mind, had it been one of those…

cheers!

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@handles – i think you got the name from a post earlier in this thread. i remember seeing it, as well. but it’s just a mistake of hearing, as someone also misheard the doctor introduce orson as “awesome pink.” it’s one reason (of many) that i re-watch every episode at least three times. you simply can’t catch everything first or second go around, because the writers are so darned good at what they do! (or, the sound people are terrible at what they do!)

also, it’s established that clara has been in the doctor’s time stream, so she wouldn’t necessarily bugger up his past in an obvious way, as she’s been in it many times to try to save him. what or how much of that he “remembers” is purely speculative, but i think the scene in tonight’s episode revealed (for me, anyway) that he does make a connection to her, that he previously had not (or only suspected). either because it was a foggy childhood memory, or he simply didn’t have all the proper information yet, to do so, i can’t say. but i think seeing the toy soldier at that moment, and hearing her talk to rupert, lit up that bulb of recognition in the doctor’s ever-calculating mind…

🙂

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@skywalkerwho – it was established in this episode, that if someone is foolish enough to turn off the safeguards for navigation, the tardis can take them places they really shouldn’t go, such as the very end of the universe. or, apparently, even to a past gallifrey. (whether outside/inside the timelock, or in a pocket universe? who can say?) that the daleks appear not to have this ability (or the precision of the tardis coordination system) is a good thing for the continued existence of our protagonist!

in short, clara could go there, because the tardis knows the way, and the safeguards for navigation were turned off by her idiot…

🙂

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excellent episode! i openly wept when the war doctor made an appearance, and i’m convinced it was a young doctor in the barn. i thought the connection was clear (although, i admit, my first impulse was that might be a young master)…

anyway, watching a second time, and thought i should clarify, the toy soldier’s name is “dan, the soldier man.” not dandan. also, the doctor gives clara a “look” when she’s talking to young rupert, at the moment she says, “he can keep the whole world safe.” i think he recognizes “dan,” at that moment, and possibly makes the connection to the speech he got that night on gallifrey, from the woman who comforted him, but whom he never saw…

“a soldier so brave, he doesn’t need a gun.” describes the doctor very aptly…

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@handles – all you need to do to acquire my BG who knowledge is to binge watch the adventures of five, six, and seven, like i did this past summer!

i’m still working my way through four, bit by bit. since his is the biggest to catch up on, in terms of sheer volume, i saved him for “last.” i may watch episodes, here and there, of one through three, but i don’t know if i can make it through all that older stuff. it seems more of a chore than a pleasure, most of the time…

y’know… different era, different production values! maybe i should just read the synopses over on the tardis wiki? 🙂

http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Doctor_Who_Wiki

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@serahni – re: post 31376…

beautifully said! and i agree with everything therein. might i add, to your final point, that the doctor and robin hood are co-heroes in this episode. so, how else would robin hood defeat a spaceship flying up into the air… than by shooting an arrow at it?! sure, the doctor might have come up with something completely different, on his own, or with more time, but what else could robin hood have done? 🙂

@wolfweed – re: post 31361…

it took a long, long time… but, i’ve finally seen a figure in that darned spoon! and it occurred to me while i was thinking about how this episode might fit into the overall timeline for twelve and clara. could it be… the war doctor?! i commented upstream that it was strange to me that clara addressed the doctor, specifically (when asking about his plan), as “last of the timelords.” we don’t know when twelve is drawn into the events of ‘the day of the doctor,” so perhaps this episode is before that? when he still believes he’s destroyed gallifrey?

yes, it makes my brain hurt, in a timey-wimey way, but i get that frequently with this show!! but that silhouette is strikingly similar to the war doctor’s profile…

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@handles – welcome back, barnable (from wherever you’ve been!)

good point about gretchen! maybe she was a “duplicate,” and we just haven’t found out yet?

the “half man, half engine” thing makes much more sense once you’ve researched the deleted scene, but basically the crashing ship hurt him a bit, and the robots patched him up, to do their bidding. it’s more a subtle reveal, now, than the big reveal it was originally intended to be…

cheers…

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@wolfweed – thanks, as always, for the extra info. i guess i could have found that on my own, but it’s easier just to rely on you! 🙂

i haven’t seen that scene (!), but knowing how and where it would have fit into the episode is enough for me. i gleaned enough info from the broadcast version to be satisfied that the sheriff was (at least) partially mechanical, either way…

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@cathannabel – oooh, good point!! clara even calls him “last of the timelords” (which i thought of as odd, at the time) when they’re chained up! perhaps he’s still the “lonely god,” as he hasn’t gone to help save gallifrey yet, in his own timeline?

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@chickenelly – even without the cut scene, the sheriff remarks (during the final duel) that he is “the first of a new breed… half man, half engine.” maybe the robots were converting him, bit by bit?

this whole ep reminds me of a BG-who ep, but i can’t put my finger on which one. (maybe one of five’s?) it also featured a crashed ship, a castle, and a human helper to the aliens, who was patched up after being injured…

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@ultimatecompanion – one other option, i’ve read that the sheriff’s original demise was changed to the falling into gold version. if the original had been kept, maybe they get the sonic off his dead body? i don’t know…

but as with the tardis door being open/shut/open/shut, it looks to be a continuity error. i hope not, as that’s a pretty big error! i hope, instead, there’s some timey-wimey reason behind it, that we find out later…

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