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  • #59124
    nerys @replies

    Wow! Amen to that, @pedant!

    #59118
    nerys @replies

    Initially I was not sold on Capaldi’s Doctor, but I decided to be patient, and over time he has won me over. Especially compelling for me was “Heaven Sent,” in which he delivered a tour de force performance.

    @blenkinsopthebrave I agree with you about the self-doubt. And maybe that’s why, for some, he isn’t their Doctor. Certainly Eccleston, Tennant and Smith all exuded a tremendous amount of confidence, each Doctor becoming more manic, almost brash, than his predecessor (though I often wondered if the “whirling dervish” style of Smith’s Doctor was meant to cover up moments of uncertainty).

    At any rate, Capaldi’s Doctor often hesitates, which the other post-gap Doctors (sorry, I’m not as familiar with the pre-gap ones) rarely did. That’s a distinguishing characteristic.

    I also agree with you about Missy, and had forgotten that we first met her at the end of “Deep Breath.” Throughout Capaldi’s run, his Doctor and Missy have been flip sides of the same coin.

    #59110
    nerys @replies

    @blenkinsopthebrave If you look at attempts to do those sorts of story construction elsewhere on TV, I would single out three examples: Babylon 5, The X-Files, and (the new) Battlestar Galactica. I have a real soft spot for Babylon 5, partially because of the way it married its long sci-fi arc with its referencing of fascist militarism and its discussion of the ethics of rebellion and taking up arms against your own government.

    My husband has a kindred spirit! He is currently watching the entire run of Babylon 5 on DVD. He watched it in his youth, and so has made a nostalgic return. I never watched it before, so I haven’t jumped on board as he has. But I’m glad he is enjoying it.

    The X-Files had have a recurring storyline with the mythology episodes. Personally, I tired of those as the series progressed and preferred the standalone episodes. Still do, as we watch this series in syndication. Even there, standalone episodes were mixed in with the mythology ones so that we weren’t plodding through one long, endless story loop. I can’t imagine that Doctor Who would work under that premise, but what do I know? If you’d suggested to me ahead of Matt Smith’s run that the Doctor would have a sort of “Peter Pan” relationship with his companion, I probably wouldn’t have bought that, either. Yet I loved the concept in the way that Moffat & Co. delivered it.

    #59109
    nerys @replies

    @ichabod Thank you for that additional explanation. It was something that stood out to me … and then, of course, the poor fellow got turned into a beach ball. As you say, his presence is a stretch (well, given their locale, the presence of all of them is a stretch), but not beyond the realm of possibility.

    #59098
    nerys @replies

    @thane15 Sadly, I kept my hopes up … only to have them dashed.

    @blenkinsopthebrave Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. I missed that article. Very enlightening! (Though I’m betting they were quoting Gatiss, not Davies, at the end of the article, since Gatiss is the only one quoted throughout.)

    Thanks to @wolfweed for posting this; here’s the link, in case anyone else missed it: Mark Gatiss admits protesting against black actor’s casting as Victorian soldier

    #59089
    nerys @replies

    As usual, I had to watch this episode twice before reflecting on it here. One thing that stood out to me was how visually convincing the Empress was with her very sharp teeth. Often such makeup/prosthetic/special effects artifacts look “put on” … but hers didn’t. I completely believed her as the creature she was.

    I apologize in advance for my ignorance: Would it have been historically accurate for a soldier like Vincey to be serving in a Victorian-era regiment?

    Also, I was so hoping Vincey would make it. He was looking forward to being reunited with his fiance, in a place that was so, so green. Yet he was tragically and selfishly sacrificed by Catchlove (whom I couldn’t help but call Francatelli, due to his recent showing in Victoria). That, for me, was the saddest part of the episode, and not really remarked upon. He was just gone.

    Another thought occurred to me: While it would have been quite amusing to have a portrait of Jenna Coleman’s Victoria, it would have caused no end of confusion for viewers who hadn’t caught both series. (“Man, Clara really did milk that last second of her life!”) Rather, they used a portrait of Pauline Collins’ Victoria, from the “Tooth and Claw” episode. Did anyone else catch the remarkable resemblance between Collins and Coleman? I instantly thought that Collins looked like Coleman would at the same age.

    #59010
    nerys @replies

    Thank you for this thoughtful discussion about depression. It really is a complex beast, and it helps to point out the differences between situational depression and clinical depression. People who know of, or have experienced, situational depression think that’s all there is. There must be a “cause” of it. Eliminate the cause, and you eliminate the depression. But with clinical depression, that’s irrelevant. Yes, there are triggers, but the reality is that clinical depression has no overt cause, other than genes, stress and the particular brain chemistry which produces it.

    Which raises an interesting question @thane15 alludes to: Who will heal the Doctor?

    #58805
    nerys @replies

    @missrori I agree that the Monks did pose a genuine, dreadful threat — they just seemed oddly easy to defeat after being near-invincible for two weeks.  And it was never really clear why they wanted to rule humanity; they didn’t have some master plan in mind.  Between that and the lack of personality, they weren’t the most compelling villains.

    The Monks were not very well “fleshed out” as villains, it’s true. However, didn’t Missy say they did this sort of thing just because they could? Taking over worlds is just their thing, as I recall. Not very compelling, but isn’t it a commentary on a certain president, who likes taking things just because he can? As in, “The game’s the thing.” Not an exact quote, of course, but it seems apropos. The conquest isn’t the most satisfying part; it’s the process of taking something (and, as we discovered, being “welcomed in” willingly, so there’s no real force involved).

    The Doctor, with Missy’s help, had to figure out how to conquer them, and that took time. It was only after consulting with Missy that realized Bill was the lynchpin, the only way to defeat the Monks. But that would come only at a huge cost, or so they believed, based on Missy’s information.

    #58799
    nerys @replies

    Finally had a second viewing just now. Wow, there’s so much I missed the first time around! I loved it even more this time. I can’t explain why I feel that way, while others feel let down. Maybe the holes aren’t as gaping to me as they are to others. Dunno.

    OK, to quickly address some observations made by other posters:

    Bill took her anger out on Nardole because the Doctor said the assassination ruse was Nardole’s idea.

    The Doctor said, “All the pictures I gave you. I thought I was just being kind, but I was saving the world.”

    As others have noted, it’s not so much “the power of love” that enables Bill to save the world, but her created memories (enhanced by the Doctor’s photos) that were so strong – a pure, uncorrupted, irresistible image, as the Doctor described it – that broke the Monks’ signal. “She’s a window on the world without the monks.”

    Some have said the Monks were not so threatening or dangerous, but I disagree. They erased people’s memories, rewrote history and enforced a passive acceptance of tyranny worldwide. Anyone who resisted was executed or sent to forced labor camps. That seems pretty dangerous to me … and also serves as a strong cautionary tale about our current state of affairs.

    Also, some have commented on Missy’s demeanor. One explanation for her muted behavior is that she’s in a state of depression, such as it is for Time Lords. So naturally her demeanor is different. Depression changes one’s personality, and not for the better. She’s not merrily sparring with the Doctor because she’s struggling with the loneliness and isolation he has imposed upon her. But it may be that her depression (rage directed inward) will eventually be turned outward. Time will tell (no pun intended).

    I love the Doctor’s “in amongst seven billion of you” response to Bill’s question about why he puts up with the human race. That’s his need for his human companions, in a nutshell.

    Peter Capaldi and Pearl Mackie were brilliant in this episode.

    #58673
    nerys @replies

    @lisa I shouldn’t have said the only one left. Maybe the one most readily available is a better way of putting it. But they were childhood friends, as I recall, and so maybe that’s why the Doctor feels compelled to try to save her. It certainly is a dysfunctional relationship, as you rightly point out.

    #58639
    nerys @replies

    I think the Doctor’s basic problem is that he is lonely for his own kind. Missy is the only one left, and so he keeps trying to save her … not just physically, but mentally/emotionally. The evidence seems to point to her being unsavable, yet I think the Doctor can’t help himself. He is compelled to keep on trying, very likely at his expense.

    #58606
    nerys @replies

    @blenkinsopthebrave You make some very good points. I was younger, only nine years old at the time, so I guess that’s why I’m thinking that episode was so difficult for me. I suppose I thought she could be rescued somehow. Reconstituted, or some such thing. That was not to be, and I found that very hard to accept. My older sister sort of laughed it off, so I supposed that older children and adults didn’t find it so horrifying. As your experience demonstrates, I was wrong about that! Like Doctor Who, Star Trek was geared toward a young audience, though adults watched, as well. That’s a difficult balance to maintain.

    #58601
    nerys @replies

    @mirime I have long felt that your explanation of why the forgetting happens is why it’s done. If people didn’t forget, then the world in which Doctor Who is set would be vastly different from the one we know. Which wouldn’t be an altogether bad thing, but it would be harder to relate to.

    @thane15 Puro, thank you for that reflection on repression. I actually think we see many signs of that in Doctor Who, with the humans and with the Doctor. But it’s not always spelled out, which leaves a lot to our imagination. I like that, even if I’m not always satisfied by the execution of that idea.

    Going back to other posters’ observations about children watching this show: I’m reminded of a Star Trek episode I watched as a child. At the beginning of this particular episode, a female crew member got turned into a sort of chalky rock cube, which the villain picked up and crushed into dust in his fist. I asked someone in my family, probably my older sister, “Does that mean she’s dead?” “Yup, she’s dead! She got crushed to death!” That horrified me. Maybe it seemed worse to me because she was female, and it wasn’t the sort of cartoonish fate that often befell the doomed red-shirted security officers. I can’t tell you how long I agonized over her fate, mulling it over in my mind and wondering what it would have felt like. And that was without it being explicitly spelled out in the dialogue. I think it would have been even worse, had the violence been more graphic and explicit.

    So yes, I agree that it’s wise to use restraint, bearing in mind that children are watching.

    #58576
    nerys @replies

    @nick The fact that it’s not the first time such forgetting was used as a plot device is explained plausibly, and I think far better than I could, by other posters like Puro. I find this explanation by @ichabod to be most compelling:

    There is that: this isn’t the targeted audience for Children of Men, it’s DW, where even showing a bit of gore is problematic.  They want to give the kids a scare, not horrify them into depression.  A certain amount of soft soap to glide over the rough bits is necessary for practical reasons.

    #58541
    nerys @replies

    @nick Ah yes, the passing student. I’d forgotten about that. But @pedant has a point with the list; this is not the first time it’s happened on Doctor Who. I’m not saying I’m completely sold on forgetting as a plot device, but for whatever reason it is a frequent occurrence in the Whoniverse.

    Hmmm, was this a three-parter? Speaking of forgetting … good grief, I’ve forgotten a lot. As I said in another thread, it’s been a crazy few weeks. Looking for things to settle down a bit now.

    #58523
    nerys @replies

    Hmmm, I guess I’ll have to watch the final scene again. I thought it was between the Doctor and Missy, but I must be forgetting something.

    Doctor Who almost always needs at least two viewings from me, because I find I often miss a lot on first viewing (not the least of which is because of those pesky commercials we have to endure on the Space channel, which really break up the flow of an episode; at least watching the DVR version, I can fast-forward through the commercials).

    #58518
    nerys @replies

    @wolfweed and @missrori I agree with you that one reason for dissatisfaction has to do with the episode’s time constraints. There’s only so much you can cram into a 40-minute episode without turning it into a three-parter. A two-parter may have been too short, while a three-parter might have felt like it was dragging things out. Dunno.

    @lisa I understand your comment about parts of this episode feeling a bit “cop out-ish”; I had that slight feeling, though perhaps not as strong as you did.

    It may be that the personal tragedy which coincided with the development of last week’s episode (mentioned in the “Pyramid at the End of the World” thread) interfered with the development of this week’s episode, as well. There’s so little that most of us know of the behind-the-scenes process.

    #58516
    nerys @replies

    @nick I fully understand the story wasnt about the details I’m seeking. I don’t know what you thought I expected to see I didn’t. I am merely suggesting that if you chose to have a global invasion and litter the world with physical evidence of that invasion (with the camps and possible deaths) have the creative bravery to live with the consequences rather than pretend it didnt happen.

    Sorry if I misinterpreted your comments, but I understood them to mean that you expected to see the details you are outlining, and were disappointed by their absence. I didn’t feel the writer pretended that those things didn’t happen, but rather sketched them in nebulous terms, leaving us to form the details in our own minds, while the storyline focused on what was happening between the Doctor and Bill (and also Missy).

    #58511
    nerys @replies

    Oops, earlier I wrote “sci-fi literalists”; what I meant to type was sci-fi purists. Too late for an edit.

    #58509
    nerys @replies

    @nick, I agree with @pedant that the kind of detail you’re seeking isn’t what the story was about. Yes, sci-fi literalists will want those details, and be disappointed if they’re not there, but I don’t consider Doctor Who to be strictly science fiction. It’s a combination of science fiction and fantasy, and has been throughout its run. As such, the stories follow sci-fi themes, but certain threads and details are often dropped due to the fantasy nature of the series. That didn’t start with Steven Moffat … and likely won’t end with him, either.

    For me, this story (as with most of the others) has a much tighter focus. It’s about the relationship between the Doctor and his companion(s), and how they solve the problems set before them. In this case, it was about how Bill was able to resolve a serious problem she created, out of her love for the Doctor. Society, while looming large in the overall scheme of things, is really peripheral in the details. I can accept that, but clearly not everyone can.

    #58501
    nerys @replies

    @serahni I too wondered where the TARDIS was through all of this. I suppose some might have considered it rather too MacGuffin-ish to have the TARDIS turn up and whisk Bill away from the Monks, thus breaking the connection. Maybe, for some reason not yet known to us, the Doctor needed Bill to overcome the Monks with her own mind, rather than solving the problem with a convenient getaway car. Perhaps it has something to do with Missy’s apparent desire to see another one of the Doctor’s “pets” (Missy’s term) destroyed. Rather than being destroyed, Bill prevailed.

    #58462
    nerys @replies

    So much misdirection in this episode. Or was it? We thought we were seeing a regeneration, only to find that it was an illusion. Then we thought we lost Bill, but her created memories of her mother saved the day. The only genuinely tragic figure was Missy, who now seems lost in her remorse. Or is she?

    #58461
    nerys @replies

    I’m quite late posting on this thread. Crazy few weeks, and now I can breathe a sigh of relief. I thought this was an amazing episode. Am I the only one (probably not) who would like to see a return of Erica, played by Rachel Denning? I thought she was utterly believable in her role, and how great that it was not at all about her stature, but simply who she is?

    #57809
    nerys @replies

    @devilishrobby I don’t suppose anyone has dared to mention the similarities between the veritas aliens and the Silence.

    I did notice that. I wonder if there’s an actual link, or it was just Moffat playing off one of his own characters. I loved this episode, though I admit to being not completely drawn into the “game” element of the story. Still, it allowed things to play out which otherwise would have been not fun, had they been real. They were not fun, as it was. I’m looking forward to next week!

    #57628
    nerys @replies

    @janetteb I like that suggestion. I am suspicious that all the claims that there is nothing complicated about Bill might be a deliberate mislead. Moffat cannot do simple. It isn’t in his DNA. There is certainly bit of a focus on Bill’s Mum. We keep seeing her image, which suggests it has some greater significance.

    I agree. I’ve always felt that Orson Pink’s existence was never sufficiently explained. He has the soldier man figurine, which he called a family heirloom. Certainly he is a descendant of Danny’s, and that could be it. But it would tie things together, at least for me, if he were a descendant of both Danny and Clara. However, that detail might have been lost in the shuffle, between Moffatt’s many “will she stay or will she go” rewrites for Jenna Coleman, after she decided to stick around through the end of Season 9.

    #57607
    nerys @replies

    Currently watching The Handmaid’s Tale (TV series). Very dark, as one would expect. But we had a small victory in the most recent episode, which felt uplifting. It’s all relative, of course.

    #57606
    nerys @replies

    Bill’s mother; lots of speculation going on about her (or, rather, the photo of her) looking like Clara. So could it be that Clara, suspended in her last moment of life and zipping around the universe in a TARDIS/diner, reconnects with Danny, gets pregnant and has his child (Bill’s mother), meaning that Bill is Clara’s and Danny’s granddaughter? Crazy, I know … yet it was suggested that the Doctor’s been lecturing at the university for 50 years. Timey-wimey!

    #57429
    nerys @replies

    What a red herring! We were led to believe that Bill was in grave danger, when really it was the Doctor (or at least his eyesight). I often find myself thinking he is invincible … which is a mistake. He’s not immortal; he’s just not human. I really love the return of creepy storylines this season. When it was the Doctor and Clara, I never really feared for their safety, but this season that feeling of security is gone. It very much reminds me of Tennant’s final season, which was one for the ages. This season is on track to give us a similar ride. I’m afraid my heart will be broken at the end.

    #57230
    nerys @replies

    @geoffers another “not supposed to ask” question: how did mere humans put those enormous chains on that giant creature at the bottom of the thames?

    I wondered the same thing. Then I decided, “Think pyramids!”

    Loved this episode. For me, it had the right level of creepiness, with a poignant ending between mother and son. I’m glad @mirime reminded us of that comment the landlord made to the Doctor about being old, so he’d have less energy and wouldn’t last long. That gives a lot more credence to Bill’s roommates surviving their experience.

    David Suchet was remarkable. In that last scene, his character dissolved from an old man into a little boy, right before our eyes. No special effects needed; it was all acting, all utterly convincing. Bravo!

    Bill is quickly moving to the top of my list of favorite companions. And her interactions with the Doctor were quite fun to watch. And we get a few more clues in that pesky mystery of who’s in the vault. A piano player, no less!

    #57176
    nerys @replies

    @whisht Thanks, I was the one who asked the question about the sinking boot. Good answer!

    @fivefaces I loved “Midnight” … so I would be impressed if that were the being kept in the vault.

    #57174
    nerys @replies

    @ichabod I must not have any standards, either. I too have loved Capaldi’s magician’s coat, the guitar, the sunglasses, the “fading rock star” aspects of this Doctor. Why wouldn’t he explore that aspect of musicality merged with personality? It seems so very Doctor-like, to play with human personae and see if they fit.

    #57011
    nerys @replies

    @idiotsavon I agree that in this episode, Bill seemed very much a callback to Donna in The Fires of Pompeii. She has reminded me of Donna in several ways. Good catch!

    Something caught my eye at the very beginning of the episode, after the Doctor and Bill did their wardrobe change. The Doctor bumps into a street vendor with a basket of produce. The vendor drops his basket of produce, which spills over the bridge and disappears under the ice. As the shot goes beneath the surface, we see a shoe drifting down, until finally it reaches the monster’s mouth. Where did the shoe come from? I thought we’d see bits of produce drifting down, instead.

    #57004
    nerys @replies

    I am loving this season! It all boils down to the relationship between the Doctor and his companion. The Doctor and Bill have a wonderful, very believable rapport. I am enjoying watching these two learn about each other.

    This was Bill’s first insight into the fact that traveling with the Doctor isn’t a walk in the park (with a few thrills along the way). She struck by the knowledge that not only has he witnessed a lot of death, but he’s been responsible for some of it, too. Her shock was palpable. But then, she (like the Doctor) decides to “move on.” In watching and listening to the Doctor, she is exposed to more context, and realizes that he would not kill easily or without a compelling reason to do so. Justice is not always kind, especially to the innocent, but he is doing his best to keep that balance in check. I enjoyed watching Bill learn this over the course of the episode, without being hit over the head with it. Good stuff.

    I also want to praise the beautiful piano-themed music in this episode, which caught my attention from the get-go. Murray Gold’s soundtrack compositions are always great, but this one stood out to me.

    #56708
    nerys @replies

    I was OK with how Broadchurch ended. I felt the third season was vastly better than the second, and close to the level of the first. I also think it successfully replicated the theme of the first season by showing how the tentacles of one act reach out and destroy so many lives. For me, the ending was mostly satisfying. I will miss Hardy and Millaaah!

    #56649
    nerys @replies

    @thane15 Yes, Donna! Wasn’t she wonderful? It’s interesting to me how a resident comedian (and I hadn’t seen much of her work in Aus) can do drama so very well. I recall her shock and misery at the existential pain and singing of the Ood and how the Doctor couldn’t transcend that unified voice. For him it was always there. Donna could project humour and awe beautifully. I think Tennant’s final season was so successful because of her, in part. When she lost the memories of her experience it was like death…

    Puro, you have pinpointed exactly what I loved about Donna. It was her openhearted humanity, and how deeply she felt for, respected and cared about other beings. Yet by contrast she had a fun, jaunty relationship with the Doctor, one that wasn’t weighed down, as Rose’s and Martha’s were, by expectations of reciprocity. My heart still aches at the erasure of Donna’s memories with the Doctor. All these years later, I still find myself wanting her memories to be restored, even though according to Tennant’s Doc, it’s impossible. Donna can’t carry those memories in her mind and live. But it also means she is robbed of all the experiences which made her realize her own greatness.

    #56648
    nerys @replies

    For those of us with hearing loss, the problem goes beyond general annoyance. For me, the consonants are already missing somewhat, so the failure to pronounce them only compounds my problem. Hearing aids help, but of course they can’t replace the hearing that’s lost; they only augment whatever hearing the individual has.

    When people realize you have hearing loss, they tend to shout … then look baffled when you still don’t understand what they’re saying. All shouting does is pump up the volume. But if portions of the speaker’s pitch stray beyond the listener’s range, or the “punctuation” provided by consonants is missing, what we hear is a lot of verbal mud, with the occasional clearly understood word thrown in.

    #56619
    nerys @replies

    @marktwainsghost Oddly enough, I am seeing some similarities between Bill and Donna… it’s more like a feel for the show instead of direct comparisons. There is no hope of sexual tension with either, no special powers, a sense of wonder, and both seek out danger with a joy few would have.

    I agree completely. I find the relationship between Capaldi’s Doc and Bill, and Tennant’s Doc and Donna, to be quite similar. I mentioned last week that as much as I enjoyed Clara, it’s also a relief to have a companion who is not a mystery to be solved (thanks @morpho). She is simply there, absorbing everything and learning as she goes. I didn’t realize how much I’d missed that till last week’s “The Pilot” season premiere. I really enjoy the rapport she and the Doctor are building.

    (Off-topic, but since I mentioned Tennant: I’m bracing myself for tonight’s Broadchurch series finale, which is only now airing in Canada. I also just binge-watched the third season of The Fall. Like Broadchurch, I felt The Fall redeemed itself in the third season, but in a very different style, and one that I’m not sure I cared for. Yet it was better than the second season, so that’s something. Broadchurch, on the other hand, managed to reinvent itself … yet stay true to itself. No small feat … as we know with our beloved Doctor Who!)

    #56502
    nerys @replies

    @theconsultingdoctor I wasn’t expecting this to be such a creepy episode, I guess going a bit back to Moffat’s early writing style. As much as I dislike horror, this episode was enjoyable. It wasn’t overdone. There were plenty of good jokes and also a few sweet, emotional scenes as well.

    I agree. That’s part of what I meant when I mentioned what I’d missed during the Clara era. It was as if Clara knew or intuited so much that much of the mystery, and also the creepiness, was missing. It was a pleasant surprise to see that pop up in this episode.

    One of the things I love about Bill is that her point of view is slightly askew, compared to that of previous companions. She asks questions and frames ideas in ways the Doctor doesn’t expect because no other companion has her unique take on things (just as she doesn’t have theirs). It must be difficult to come up with new and fresh ways for a companion to behave, but so far Moffat & Co. have managed to pull it off!

    @missy I too have had cataract surgery (both eyes … done separately, of course). Initially the recovery is not much fun, but the thing I noticed immediately after my first surgery was that suddenly the world appeared to me in bright, vivid Technicolor. I’d grown so used to see the world through a white fog, which diminished color, that it was a shock to see the world back in color again. I didn’t realize how much eyesight I’d lost till it was restored again, and the contrast was so dramatic. It wasn’t as dramatic when I had my right eye done a few months later, but it was still noticeable. Hopefully you will experience the same dramatic improvement.

    #56449
    nerys @replies

    @pedant Ah, thank you! It’s what we would refer to as “gutting” a wall.

    #56438
    nerys @replies

    @miapatrick … walking into the Tardis and looking around, ‘a knock through’ is the most logical explanation.

    That reminds me: What is a “knock through”? I know what the phrase means, as a verb, but Bill’s use of it as a noun puzzled me. It must be British slang for something, but I have no idea what, and Google is of no help here.

    #56393
    nerys @replies

    @bluesqueakpip Yeah, I thought the TARDIS was automatically translating every language, alien or otherwise, into English so that the English-speaking listeners on hand would understand it. So doesn’t it stand to reason that would apply to acronyms, as well? It’s just a more sophisticated “translation” of words that fit a particular meaning to their corresponding (pronounceable, as a word) initials.

    @redlemons but you guys are way beyond me.

    I felt that way upon joining, but the thing I’ve learned is that most everyone fits in here. As long as we love Doctor Who, behave reasonably and don’t go on the attack, we’re all equally welcome. Each individual brings a unique perspective to the table. I love the passionate and thoughtful discourse we find here!

    #56384
    nerys @replies

    @ wolfweed A disturbing thought just occurred. What has Leonard (Nardole) just done in the TARDIS loo (that should maybe be left for a while)? Presumably he’s a cyborg (robotic apart from the head) so has he dropped some smelly ball bearings in there or what?!?

    Good question! I wonder if he just used it to dispose of some sort of other waste (not sure how it would be generated, or by whom) on the TARDIS, since he was not suspecting that a human might actually need to use it in the near future? So not his waste, necessarily, but some other type of waste, and the loo was a convenient place to dump it.

    #56382
    nerys @replies

    @kharis I hadn’t even considered Paul McGann. Wouldn’t that be a wonderful redemption for him? I know he’s had other Doctor Who outings since that awful TV movie, but it would be so cool to see him fully realized as The Doctor. However, I suspect that given the unfair complaints about Peter Capaldi’s age, they’re looking for someone younger.

    @bluesqueakpip I’d love to see Rory Kinnear in the role. Hey, BBC, it’s not too late to consider him now!

    @jimthefish Coupled with the fact that Broadchurch 3 hasn’t inspired me with any more confidence in Chibnall’s show-running, I’m increasingly expecting an approaching age of extremely vanilla Who. Perfectly willing to be proved wrong though.

    See, I feel just the opposite. If we were talking Season 2, I’d agree with you completely. But Season 3 has restored my faith in his abilities. I know this is highly subjective, of course. Different strokes, and all.

    #56363
    nerys @replies

    @geoffers but he does remember donna, quite well, and the moment when he decides not to mind-wipe her memories was a call back to that, methinks…

    I think it’s also in direct response to Bill’s remark to him, about how he would feel if someone did that to him. Which, of course, is exactly what happened. Somehow he feels that resonance, the emotional echo of Clara. He knows of her factual existence, but all details of his familiarity with her have been erased. He knows that, and lives with that void, so he realized it’s not something he should do to anyone else. Not anymore, unless that person is fully prepared to pay the price … which Donna was not prepared to do.

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    @ichabod Gods, I hope you’re right!  I don’t think BC 3 has shown up here yet —

    In Canada I’ve been watching it on the Bravo channel.

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    @marianne Love it, thank you!

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    @kharis Actually, the EW article wasn’t a review, but rather got into some spoiler-ish territory about the season finale, which then, predictably enough, led to some “good riddance”-style Facebook comments from some. Those comments were what I was replying to, mentioning, among other things, Capaldi’s acting tour de force in “Heaven Sent,” along with his stellar work in last night’s season premiere. Which then prompted the “run of the mill” comment by someone else. Bleh!

    @redlemons I’ve had the same thing happen. Here in Canada, hubby and I were watching the last few episodes of the Doctor Who marathon running up to last night’s season premiere. On first viewing, I loved “Heaven Sent” but was a little underwhelmed by “Hell Bent” (I think because I was expecting the same sort of narrative flow and intensity). But watching it again last night, I felt and appreciated “Hell Bent”‘s emotional resonance. So sometimes it just takes time … and multiple viewings.

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    Someone responding to my Facebook comment on an Entertainment Weekly article called this episode “run of the mill” for introducing a companion. Hard to imagine that being someone’s opinion, but there it is. Someday I shall learn to stop responding to such comments.

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    @thane15 I just read through the comments in this thread. Your mum’s comments have been in the back of my mind ever since she posted them. The last thing she should feel is embarrassment (though I think I understand why she would feel that way). We are all thrilled she has not shuffled off this mortal coil! How wonderful it is to know that improved treatments are making that possible.

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    One other thing I noticed, and others have remarked on this, is the sense of awe and wonder pervading this episode. With Clara, I often felt that was missing, simply because she knew so much. As a result, we in the audience did, too. With Bill, we’re back to everything being new again, with the sense of surprise smacking her (and us) in the face. It’s refreshing to have that back!

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