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@craig

… lots of planets have a north. Lots of people are a bit beige. Mind you, did you see the pic of Kier as Stuart Adamson/Billy McKenzie c1982?

More importantly, NOT a buffoon! Though they may have adjusted the audio on his victory speech. And he had notes! You need notes, Nigel… if you’re going to say more than ‘hate!’ And ‘woke!’

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@nerys @winston

Yes, the prospect of November is very concerning. It has rather tempered my delight at the result of the UK election. I’m afraid, whatever you think about Biden’s health and age, he’s carrying the can for cost of living, isn’t he?

In the UK, the other big issue was conduct in Public Office. Certain areas of the Conservative Party seem to act like spivs and have been punished. Trump denies and survives. Somebody must have advised him to fix the courts… probably Putin.

Putin (and Wagner) Netanyahu, Orban and the new European right will all be emboldened… that includes our wonderful Mr Farage. If Putin succeeds in exploiting the Russian minorities seeded in Eastern Europe, and that’s why they were inserted into Transinistra, Latvia and Kalinigrad, Serbian revanchism will be next.

US isolationism is just another form of Tellurocracy. But I’m not sure many below The Parallel get that, or consider the consequences.

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@thane16

‘Splice’ was surely more about Tecteun…

so… Doctor Who? Doctor What? But also… whither Gallifrey?

I did prick my ears up when Harriet mentioned The Mara. I also wondered about Colony Sarff in The Witch’s Familiar. Not sure reality could handle it all again after Daft Jackal (aka Sutekh). Kinda and Snakedance were great, but a full on Mara Empire? What would that be like?

Watch out for Dukkha, Anatta and Annica… wonderfully creepy in the original.

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@thane16

The Harbinger link to Silver Nemesis made me wonder about the Cybermen.

Cybermen need special handling. The origin stories… Age of Steel, World Enough and Time, are the interesting ones… thereafter it becomes Mass Mook Death or, in the words of The Cult of Skaro, ‘pest control.’

The fact that the Finetime Flakes were essentially generating cybercurreny could be a link. I was reminded of Silence in the Library, the Dot was almost like the floaty surveillance unit controlled by the little girl, and everyone was being eaten by critters. But then the Flakes couldn’t be more virtual than Ruby & Doc because they met face to face under the city.

Is it like Danny returning from the Nethersphere (in fact the kid did)… even though their bodies no longer exist. How does that work? But is that function of a Gallifreyan Data Slice?

I have also wondered about The Matrix… has someone been organising a Gallifreyan house clearance?

So… the Zchib TL/CM evolution continues? Or will it be rewritten so it actually make Whosense?

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@janetteb

Thanks!

Sorry, I made a meal of this. Democracy (and the alternative) is complicated. Of course. Richard Miles, ‘Ancient Worlds’: I recommend.

I still have my fingers crossed. It seems a shoo-in. ‘Why so tense, Potter?’

Fine day. Big turn-out, you hope.

Reminded of talk from my musical hero’s, as the sixties became seventies: the hairies vs the straights. We are all it seems (you don’t think it will happen to you, do you?) being called to account.

Tired but happy tomorrow? F@(k yeah!!

 

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@blenkinsopthebrave @winston

Tolerance! Yes.

Not Primords

Bright and fine for most of England. Showers in Scotland.

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@whohar @jimthefish @craig @blenkinsopthebrave

‘No religion or politics in Ulster pubs.’ Sounds like sound advice.

My political philosophy probably doesn’t bear writing down but it’s probably something along the lines of ‘if you poke someone long enough about religion or politics long enough, they’ll probably tell you to get lost.’ (That’s the expurgated version). Learned by experience.

Yes! May the turn out be high and we not have the Tories. Amen. At least one of those things should come to pass.

In name, the Tories are/were always a coalition between the One Nation and the frothing…. actually the City doesn’t like them anymore… nor the frothers they. What ARE they? I’m sure they will soon be Reform. I’m just saying that scenario sounds pretty bad, even though they won’t win.

PR? I was a big supporter a long time ago. Now I’m just a bit lukewarm. Look at National Rally. Look at Meloni. Look at Netanyahu clinging on.

There was a system with the big constituencies and multiple candidates that sounded cool. Choose the flavour of your tribe! But will people understand it? Will the party machines machines fix it anyway? It was never presented as an option… probably because of the comprehension issue.

To come back to experience, it is very difficult to get into other people’s heads. A simple discussion about the railways, and strikes, quickly becomes a question of, ‘do you know how much they’re paid?’

‘Have you never been bitten by a veal, man??’

No! What I mean is, ‘are they not worth it? Don’t you think they might know what they’re doing? Do you want to be in a train crash?’ This is what happened in the decade after privatisation. Don’t get me started on the water industry.

And some people will never vote. Not many, but not just a few either. I don’t know why. Their dad probably told them not to. I always listened to my dad. They’re self reliant. They belong to their community, not an airbrushed image on a screen. They’re contrarians, like (if not the same) as the vaccine sceptics and Putin supporters. And, actually, this is dangerous. I’m not sure PR alone will fix it.

That’s the challenge for whoever wins the election, but they’ll duck it. The Tories will say Labour were unaccountable. The Tories may remain irrelevant. This could be new ground and I feel unsteady.

Also, we have France. We have Meloni and Orban. We have the joys that November may bring. Happy days!

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@blenkinsopthebrave @whohar @craig

You might not believe it but I find writing about politics quite nerve-wracking. You really don’t know what people think. Your friendly anglophile Democrat in voluntary exile down the road may well be quite Republican. They look exactly the same. Are you going to ask them?

The much vaunted ‘silent majority’… do they just want their bus services back or The Royal Navy to capsize migrant boats in the channel? Dunno. They’re silent. Maybe not so much now but then how many are bots or friends of The Fancy Bears?

Also you post and then wonder… how did that come over?

PR… I am in two minds. You WILL get coalition government. That didn’t sit well with the Lib Dems 10 years ago and maybe that was all down to Thick Nick. But with PR you will see more anger and outrage in the short term. And then, maybe, the mindset will change. Or Reform (the party) may become power brokers. The Tufton Street plotters will just change their tactics.

But, as happy as I will be for Labour to win, and Starmer has done an extraordinary job in four years… And, by the way. Hurrah! He is NOT a Charlatan. NOR a Buffoon! But talk of a record Labour majority (and it could be enormous) on the basis of 40% of the vote is ridiculous. Not counting chickens but it looks like that’s the way it will be.

Also… I do get nervous about the language used about changing the system and, what I mean there is, the official and unofficial organs of power through which the legislature works. Every country functions in its own way; changing it is like turning a container ship. Good luck changing Russia! But theoretically it could happen.

Could Liz Truss have actually changed things?? I say ‘could’, NOT ‘should’, or ‘ hmmm I would like.’ So, the economy crashes. She says she was stabbed in the back with a tofu knife by some woke literatti who jumped out of a taxi in Islington. We all get itchy fingers around Whitehall Mandarins but is talk of the ‘anti-growth coalition’ the first step towards finding a friendly Colonel to insert some lead in the undesirables? You see, not a fan myself…

I recommend ‘Ancient Worlds’ by Richards Miles… still on I Player… the roots of human political behaviour run deep. If you want to get a handle on civilisation, Hesiod, democracy and tyranny, that’s a good place to start.

And no tofu.

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@craig

I am always utterly startled by the educated, switched on, independent people I meet, the last people you might think ‘oh yeah, you’re apathetic’, who then say to you: ‘bunch of wasters. I’m not voting.’ And then immediately, ‘don’t you agree?’ And you’re like rabbit in the headlights because it’s a social event and you don’t really want to jump on a soap box. Maybe these are actually people who have NEVER voted?? Why?

And there are tribal voters out there who are appalled by either side (that being their ‘tribe’) But are they actually going to switch?

Does this make them ‘idiots’ in the ancient Greek? It probably does. Of course the ERG and its ilk are quite prepared to throw mud the wall (and have the resources to do that) until they get what they want, and then… like Brexit… ‘oh, well it’s done now. Smell the caffeine! And we’ve fixed the courts, so tough.’

We’ve become too comfortable with liberal democracy. All you can do it is ask people not to ‘forget’ to vote, and hope for better standards in public office so they don’t then think they’re being taken for ‘idiots’.

But the people you vote for will still have to deal with the current system. You really don’t want to have to ‘change things by shooting men who arrange things’ (thank you Kevin Rowlands)… some people forget or have apparently never recognised that. Why?

Let’s not forget Farage thinks he can destroy the Tories. He could be right. I’m not saying save Rishi, and I ain’t voting Tory, but that ain’t good news.

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@devilishrobby

I do hope you’re recovering!

The TTC followed a season I detested, so I really wasn’t in the mood for a load of exposition from Dharwan, never my favourite Loon anyway.

Exposition is a problem Who, where nothing ever ought to be as it seems. It ruined the end of the Family of Blood and most of Time of The Doctor. The End of Time, as a sort of seasonal ‘lesson’, was just about ok I suppose.

I had no problem with Ruth. Zchib has as much right to rationalise the regeneration mythos as anyone. The disposal of her sidekick rather appalled when you has learned who she was, but then Brendan was charmingly other. Then clunkety clunk clunk.

An army of Cybermen mooks is difficult anyway but there was so much desperate ‘supered’ pseudo-invention. It was as if it had been written by a 7 year old. In crayon. Using the Morbius faces clip is still problematic in that Ruth ain’t there and we’re never going to get a guest appearance from Holmes or Camfield. Ok they’re supposed to be Brendan not the Doctor but in that case why did they appear? Was Whitdoc’s shock and dismay just an act? This is whole knew world of fridge logic. I think people have been far too accepting.

And, yes, the script for JW was as unsympathetic as ever. I’m sure some of the creative choices (the board request you make it into a nice safe soap that will make Grade happy) were out of Zchib’s hands.

You could say TTC has reinvigorated the story, but the sequel was T’floox (oh dear looks like there’s nothing to do but destroy the Universe! Got to watch it sometime) so, no, I am unconvinced.

RTD2 would seem to be a fix it. And it’s obviously a tough gig.

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@devilishrobby

Yes, Rassilon (if that was he) ‘the president’, was last seen scarpering from Gallifrey during Hell Bent… one wonders why The Doctor is so certain about the TL genocide. The details are predictably hazy… my brain does not speak Zchib. Is the Doc just extremely anxious to avoid any others who are left?

So, I do need to check out Timeless Children and T’floox at some point. Could I get away with skimming the scripts?

At the moment I’m struggling with Silver Nemesis trying to nail down the Harbinger link. But Rassilon is rattling around in the background there too.

 

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@devilishrobby

I hate Pre Gap hidden tracks. Impossible to rip.

I’m reasonably sure The Rani was Tecteun. Have you ever seen them in the same room together? If Rogue has really gone to another universe with The Birdies he might end in E space. Or in Cromer with Omega.

Lady lords are irrelevant anyway. In the words of Ray Davies, ‘girls will be boys and boys will be girls.’ But Gallifrey wasn’t invented until The Time Warrior in 1973 so Ray wrote something about Lola instead. All bets are off. The restrooms are unisex.

I also think Shirley snaffled the golden tooth. Not sure how it will end up in Max Capricorn’s gob though. As the ninth Doctor might have said: ‘lots of idiots have precious metal in their mouths.’

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@mudlark @juniperfish

Not so much Badwolf as Madjack??

As good as any observation.

Though Sutekh went nowhere near Tardis or Time Vortex but was trapped in a space time portal for the rest of his natural life, because he wasn’t the messiah but a naughty little doggie. So, it doesn’t really matter what Rose said.

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@dwnerdfrommars

I think there could be a Clara connection to this milieu. I’m waiting for someone to open up an American Diner dahn the road.

But Mrs Flood seems to cockney rather than Lancashire… and she’s aged… Clare post Hell Bent cannot age. She might be wearing a shimmer, or something else might have disguised her. But, unless we’ve misunderstood the dialogue, she didn’t recognise the ‘Police Box’ Tardis either.

Key characters in this series seem to echo significant events in The Doctor’s life. So yes Rogue seems like Capn Jack. There’s a little girl somewhere called Splice. Finetime, ‘Homeworld’ and ‘Dot’ bear a faint resemblance (in my mind) to a digital Giant Library and its ‘Moon.’ Roger ap William, strangely, has medieval name (but then so does the leader of Plaid Cymry)… nonetheless I think the name is significant. I also worry about the Space Babies and the Doctor’s history with The Daleks.

Ruby, abandoned at the church, is a reminder to the Doctor that Tecteun found him. But who left him/her there? She may also be a mirror or echo. Is this the purpose of these ‘echoes’? Like a more subtle confession dial asking ‘Who?’ Or as Bill Potts had it, ‘What?’

Now, we know that The Doctor had a guardian angel who intervened when The Doctor was attacked  in The Name of The Doctor. Remember the odd face in Rogue’s scan of The Doctor? And you might say Carla is Ruby’s guardian. See what I did there?

There is also a missing incarnation, who supposedly postdates Doctor Twelve, though without accounting for Ruth, the War Doctor or the metacrisis Hand Doctor (and if we did it would take us to… 15. Wow! Fancy that!) This incarnation was heavily involved in tampering with the Matrix and general misrepresentation. I have speculated that this person may have something to do with the Vlinx. Also Harriet Arbinger was UNIT’s archivist and she took the lead in manipulating The Tardis when Sutekh was on the rampage.

The Harbinger was also the working title of a story from the late 80’s… part of the ‘Cartmel Masterplan’ which was gradually revealing The Doctor’s real importance.

Mrs Flood as River Song? River Song is trapped in The Great Library, but has something happened to the Library (see Dot and Bubble)? Perhaps The Library, as a receptical of truth, is a standing threat to someone trying to mislead The Doctor?

Or should we look at River’s timeline? We have no idea where she was between 1969 and about 2000 or before when, as a small girl (thirty years later), she becomes Amy and Rory’s best friend. But she might not have known that the tardis was disguised as a police box until she met Amy. She may have regenerated once or many times.

Also, Amy only met The Doctor very briefly as a child… so how did she develop her great life changing theory about the Doctor? Who told her?

What part of this milieu is real or not I don’t know.

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@juniperfish

To be a warning about Sutekh it would need to be DAFTJACKAL surely?

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@scaryb

Susan Triad’s cup of tea…

If the Vlinx is actually a Bamblweeny 540 sub-meson brain, and UNIT installed an atomic vector plotter in The Time Window, that alone could explain Empire of Death.

Seriously, could it be a Douglas Adams nudge? After Sutekh, will we get the return of Scaroth? Or as my daughter calls him, Ramen Noodle Man. She is no Whovian but even she deemed City of Death ‘acceptable.’

Scaroth waited around for a while. He was pretty old too.

However, I would expect some dialogue of the standard of  ‘what a wonderful butler. He’s so violent!’

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@whohar @juniperfish @blenkinsopthebrave

It’s not ‘sneering’ really. The obvious negative comments are of a predictable flavour from people who sign up specifically to be negative. Are they bothered about Who’s labyrinthine continuity? I could be very sneery there… no they’re not for a moment. But we are. Maybe it’s not someone sneering, but us cringing. A bit.

But we like to speculate and I think RTD likes this game too. Does it make for good art? Let’s face it, Sutekh and The Beatles were both woefully realised. Susan Triad is still very weird. What is the cup of tea about? Well, actually I have a theory there…

You know I have theories. If they’re not borne out that’s fine so long as the art gets better. I don’t mean Sutekh or The Beatles. Who has always been riven by production decisions: kids show or serious sci fi; showrunners mates or clueless neophytes; po faced history or bug eyed monsters; safe boring soap or schlocky horror; implied sex or Arkela?

Zchib’s art was pretty bad: he got a number of those calls wrong, or they were out of his hands. Moffat’s issues in 2017 were something else, I think illustrated by ‘Douglas Is Cancelled’… NOT on the BBC! You would think RTD is under a brand new Disney yoke; perhaps he’s signalling, ‘I know you’re still out there. Just trying to make this work, guys.’

Well… eps 3-6 (of the 8) were fine. Great even. Let’s hope we get a Moffat written seasonal special as good as those, and 8 more in the same vein.

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@whohar

I suppose VR is just another way of saying ‘l don’t really like this story, Russ.’

relics… The Black Adder had Edmund, as Archbishop of Canterbury, claiming that holy fingers only came in packs of ten. Though clearly these included thumbs, which some devotees find unacceptable.

If we’re trading Smith titles, Chris Packham stylee, I think you’ll find Russ may have to admit ‘I Started Something I Couldn’t Finish.’

Otherwise William… the helm of decision, desire… ok, I’ll shut up.

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@whohar

SoD… I mean the actual Roman lance from Golgotha.

Not sure what Kirk was thinking of… still Skids, Joy Division, New Order….

Actually, not sure RTD wants to reference it, exactly. Pretty sure he had another pointy thing in mind when saddling Rog with his unfeasible Norman handle. But, yes, Rog was a crypto fascist if not a neo nazi.

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@thane16

Exploding Tardis. That long night in Darrilium must have flown.

‘You fly the tardis with the handbrake on!’

’You collapsed the Universe and wasn’t there when your own mother was shot by a replica of your own dad!’ (Note to self: send another crate of paranoid psychotic serial killer blood to Paternoster Square. I’m forever in your debt Vash!)

’I hate you!’

’You used to. I blame the chin.’

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@whohar

Complete Narrative Collapse sounds a bit like theoretical physics. But the world’s insane and wonks are to blame anyway!

The things is, to check the Harriet incident I’d have to rewatch EoD again… and I don’t really want to. The acid test.

H.Arbinger is at the controls. Was she running the VR? Is this a simulation designed to reveal… a bit like Extremis? Fear didn’t work in The Confession Dial… maybe love and longing might? So are there ‘good guys’ obscuring information in The Time Window?

nb Silver Nemesis was a rather silly story (I’ve never manged all of it) featuring a Gallifreyan statue made from a living metal created by Rassilon and Omega (I think). This is coveted by neo-nazis (tsk they get everywhere) echoing occultists’ obsession with The Spear of Destiny (not Kirk Brandon’s band)

Roger… Hrōþigēraz

χrōþi = renown

gār = spear

Now…
Alien Life Form Garnet! Til Death Us Do Part. Can you imagine John Bishop returning to be called a thievin scouse get? I wonder if there’s a mischievous meta comment there concerning John Cleese’s slightly clueless comments about Alf and the compromises he had to make to scrape his shekels together.

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@thane16

the crack was utilised by the TL’s but it was caused by the tardis exploding, but what blew up the tardis?

Unless that was the universe collapsing when the Doctor went in the Pandorica (although he came straight out again)

Never mind

Not sure if it’s relevant, but the working title of 1988’s Silver Nemesis was The Harbinger, a Cartmel plan story big on Rassilon and Omega history.

I notice the Harriet had her mits all over the tardis and, when she was kicked out, it all went south for Sutekh.

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@thane16

I really don’t know about pointing woman. It could be anyone, within reason.

The snow could be explained by ‘the face’ in the scan. Or that connection is a red herring. I hope it’s not Sutekh because… he was a bit ridiculous wasn’t he? Is that the new Disney paradigm? Or was he always a paper… bandog? Happy to see the back of him.

It’s odd that this story should be SO seeded with clues. Actually… though it keeps us happy, it’s a bit annoying now. Unless it’s really just us being very sad.

Mind you the tardis generated crack in reality was held over for 2 whole seasons. And still not explained.

Any thoughts re the ‘SN’ connection (I put it on BBC spoilers for some reason). If it’s a return to Cartmel 1.0 then a significant Ruby really doesn’t make much sense. And why would you back track?

Though, there again, Ace WAS significant, wasn’t she?

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Oooh ooooh! Could be significant! I was researching Rassilon and Omega, and their various chattels and toys… and the working title of Silver Nemesis (1988)…

was…

The Harbinger!!

Sorry someone else has probably spotted this…

If not… yes! Glad to elucidate.

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@vickymallard

Confused? The clever money is on misdirection.

To start with, in Pyramids of Mars (very good classic Who story), Sutekh is not supernatural or divine but a mad alien with enormous mental powers. He doesn’t get chucked in the Time Vortex but trapped in a time corridor where he (presumably) lived out his extended lifespan. RTD would seem to be playing fast and loose with Whotinuity. And, as a rule, he and The Doctor are quite atheistic.

A lot of people object to the ‘everyone everywhere dies and comes back to life’ device. It felt like a game being rebooted from a save point. Or else it’s all nonesense.

There are issues with UNIT’s time window. Hoodie woman jumps around. 73 yards crops up again. No one was convinced by The Ruby Road sign.

It’s also suspected, ever since Newton and ‘Mavity’, that we’re seeing an alternate universe… could it be artificial intelligence (a reoccurring theme) and virtual reality?

So, there’s a possibility that we’re being played by RTD with The Pantheon. The real story is about orphans. Some people didn’t like that Ruby was so ‘ordinary’ (and RTD played us again) but it’s this that turns the theme back on the Doctor: he is ordinary too, in that he has been forced to think about his mum and dad. Where is his family? So, Susan, River (interestingly last seen trapped in a virtual reality), Tecteun/Awsok, Jenny maybe!

Could the designer of this speculative virtual reality want the same information? Some characters in the series could be emblematic of the Doctor’s past. So, Roger ap William. Who is called Roger ap William? The name is clearly significant and the meaning worth checking.

As to who the designer is? Is he ‘The Boss?’ Remember the mysterious face in the Doctor’s scan in Rogue? This would seem to be an actor who has played the Doctor both in an audio story and a charity special. But he was also another important character during series 7: the end of 11’s tenure. How could he end up as a face of the Doctor?

There are other speculations concerning Mrs Flood and an ABSENT incarnation of the Doctor the Rogue scan… perhaps that face is yet to come. We haven’t much information at this point.

Not ALL of this can be moonshine. But don’t ask me which bits. The Pantheon probably is.

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@whohar

I’m sure that would be the Mabinogion. Not that I am an expert but comparative analysis of Welsh and Irish myth is insightful.

I was musing on the power of 3 during the discussion on Dot and Bubble. That it’s problematical to say 3 is necessarily significant because it has become its own trope.

The Celts seemed to need to be told something 3 times (in triads interestingly!) before they would admit it was real.

 

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@whohar

see Spoilers for my comment re Mr Garnett.

More science… in general ‘smaller’ is better. Mainly in terms of threat. But science too. If you decide to go with speculative theoretical physics ok. But make it tight. Black Hole Information Paradox: show me what it means! Your challenge for next season Russ!

Even the maligned ‘Babies’ and ‘Chord’ contain some nice science: our ‘population’ issues are solvable scientifically, it’s just dogmatic people who are a problem; music is hard wired into mammalian brains, what does that mean for us, and they way we think?

Fantasy: I’m in two minds because I used to really love fantasy. But not what has been done with it. There again, I don’t (please don’t burn me at the stake) like Star Wars much. That’s sci fi gone mainstream. Stadium. Plastic. Not that real sci fi is great on characters or emotional connection. But neither is Star Wars really. Too big. Too Manichaean. The midichlorians are VERY silly.

I hate most of what Jackson has done to Tolkien. Can’t watch it anymore. I DON’T insist that the result be ‘just like the book’, but I dislike aggressively story-boarded films. Film is a series of images, but image should not damage the structure of the narrative. In the words of my old creative writing tutor (a bit of a twit but this was a good point), ‘the narrative is what you eat.’

I’m stating the obvious, but fantasy tends to the Manichaean, allegorical, simplistic and/or (GoT stylee) sadisticly misogynistic. I used to rail that no one has ever made a successful attempt to interpret LeGuin’s Earthsea but, really, thank goodness. I don’t really want to see more fantasy in WHO but I admit the show has always existed at the squidgy end of soft sci fi.

I keep hoping for some kind of science with my VR speculation. The romance content is acceptable. The ‘I’m a crazy alien, mad me!’ schtick was wearing a bit thin. Didn’t believe it. The Doctor is obviously an emotional being and drawn to humanity.

@miapatrick

Elves are NOT nice. They’re not human; there is an absence of human ‘good.’ But The Doctor is also alien. Why is he not an ‘elvish wight’?
<p style=”text-align: left;”>But yes it’s partly a kid’s program. No paving slabs please.</p>
@wolvesarerunning

the woman in the tent scene was SO strong… what we see on nearly every news broadcast. Makes you wonder if that came first and the rest was cobbled together to make it work.

 

 

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@blenkinsopthebrave

Millie and the story of her family is not over? I can only hope Mr Garnett didn’t have a granddad called Alf.

I suspect, of course, that it’s not over in a larger sense.

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@mudlark @blenkinsopthebrave

Profiles of the Future: Arthur C Clarke’s 3rd Law…

‘Any sufficiently advanced technology is inextinguishable from magic’

…apparently.

The Time Window was tampered with…? Mmmm. We know someone who likes to mess around with that stuff, don’t we children? TUF guy. V. Mysterious. Could Warp your Mind! In fact the last Loon got his crucial Timelord damning information from this very reprobate’s old stamping ground.

btw… was it ever established, before he became The Toy Maker’s tooth, where The Last Loon stood with regards to Missy or Skeletor? Timey Wimey. If he predates Anthony Ainley, then he might not have known what lurks in The Matrix.

One way of rewriting Zchib I suppose.

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@blenkinsopthebrave

No. Not answered. Most things to do with the Time Window seem utterly baffling.

Either:

it’s a coincidence. High % chance she would be named Ruby by whoever. Did we get the name of the church? If it was All Saints, she could have been Nic Shaz Nat Mel Sunday.

or they made it up to be nice to Ruby, she was actually pointing to something else

or she was pointing at the sign to someone invisible who then did the certificate

or she was pointing at it to The Doctor after all, but he was too dumb to realise.

But pointing at a sign called Ruby might have worried Sutekh because the Eye of Horus in PoM was a ruby.

I suspect the story may have been rewritten and fell apart in his hands guvnor.

Good moments, bad set up. 5 out of 8 (Babies and Chord were serviceable) scrapes you a lower second Mr Davies, which will get you a job on The Coal Board.

 

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@thane16

sorry meant to say this earlier. Copyright in Who… there were problems with Daleks in the sixties. Terry Nation wanted to sell them to the states, but maybe they weren’t commie enough.

Jonathon Nathan Turner was anxious to shed Nyssa because he had to pay royalties everytime she appeared. I suspect she was originally going to become an android in Four til Doomsday. But Davison decreed she must stay or he would be listening to Tegan forever (JNT needed to sell Who down under)

The GI was Haisman and Lincoln. The GI stories are classics. Then they wrote The Dominators and weren’t asked back.

Moff riffed hard on GI, why shouldn’t RTD? Not sure Pip and Jane Baker or the Holmes estate owns V man. Do you think I need to ‘linx’ that to rest of my theory?

 

 

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@thane16 @juniperfish

The arc has been seeded with clues. Too many. We’re all over them and that’s what Russ wanted… but does that make for good art?

It’s like Line of Duty and morse code. The problem with the ‘in show solution’ and the obvious solution have hamstrung the narrative a bit.
As it happens there’s not enough information to predict what happens at Christmas or next year.</p>
But certain things cannot be accidental. No one, no one is called Roger ap William… so it must be significant. If he was Bill Probert he’d be ‘crazy hat mega star’ or just a guy called Bill, but no, he’s ‘big spear crazy hat’ because his name is given in the medieval form, but he’s also elected in 2046. There is a crown that accesses The Matrix and a rod that controls The Eye of Harmony.

Little girls (I’m afraid) have flower names or goddess names; Splice is downright weird in a culture that seems to place emphasis on religion.

River a low level baddie? She very nearly terminally killed him with a kiss. That’s bad and it ain’t a boring meh death of reality. My Kind of Woild! as the Loon would say. But River left 1969 as a tittle girl. Presumably Kovarian told her she could regenerate but we don’t know what else she knew about The Doctor or what she was supposed to be doing. With the disruption the Moon landing caused to The Silence, we don’t know if Kovarian was in control until later.

What River certainly had, is another stolen childhood. Did the Doctor love her for what she was or will be?; Russ may need to spell out this is not complicated sympathy. Lets Kill Hitler was difficult on many levels. Is this arc a Fix It Fic???

Not sure how she knew about Sutekh though… unless she wasn’t talking about him, but someone else.

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@thane16 @whohar @blenkinsopthebrave

So are we agreed, the problem is the art not the arc?

Well, we don’t know what the arc is yet… but to quote the easter egg from Blink AGAIN… that (EoD) got away from him.

Or is it the new demographic and paymasters? I hate  the idea of The Unit spinoff. Sorry.

Justified criticism… death – death = life. Well basically this is a big reset button in demonic dog form. So, been done before. Been done by Moff, several times. Maybe we’ve been watching NuWho too long. A new generation needs to engage with facile metaphysics and expensive CGI.

Related gripe… big meh story… the earth should be room enough. The original Sutekh just wanted to KILL ALL HUMANS. Maybe Russ supersized the threat, maybe that’s VR.

Problematic criticism. Ruby is ordinary. Ruby is emblematic of The Doctor. And she is a standing criticism of him. The Doctor despised his people. Didn’t he? With good reason. He turned his back on his family – yes they were timey wimey and never there, but surely he has given up on them… and Gallifrey too easily? He was actually going to use The Moment to destroy them.

If Ruby can change his mindset, she is EXTRAORDINARY. But is she VR? Actually, ordinary Ruby with her ordinary mum and the healing (hopefully) is the best bit. I can forgive the all the nonsense on that basis. Did someone say The Doctor almost ghosts Ruby at the end?; he knows what the deal is. She has her family and is going to leave, and he is alone. What will he do?

The arc is VR. The VR is created by someone who knows The Doctor as well as they know themself (is that really a word? Spellcheck says good!) Who did it with the Matrix many years ago… or in the future. If we’re confused, blame it on The Ultimate Foe. We were all confused.

Why does Ruby snow? The VR snows. Someone else was known for snow. REG in the scan. Big flake at the end of Boom. But no little ice crystal teeth… not yet. Timey wimey.

In short, it’s not as tight as RTD’s previous series. Still far more watchable than Zchib, which you might say doesn’t mean much because it was mostly unwatchable.

I think he’s been influenced by Moff, and perhaps that is a reaction to Zchib, too. But maybe he’s not up to this style. It does worry me that the Christmas Special is supposedly Moff’s last hurrah (surely not). The only other writer in his class was Mathieson… but is he Disney friendly? There will be other writers I know.

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@classicsrule1 @craig @blenkinsopthebrave

Well, the only possible explanation is it’s VR.

Ruby (and Bill before her) were deserted. The Doctor was deserted and abused. His mind has been wiped several times. This is someone examining the fluff in Doctor’s navel… like ‘Extremis’ but based on The Doctor. The Doctor is ultimately being turned against himself by… well, this is the guy in The Scan. He doesn’t cry… he snows.

That actually makes sense. If it’s not this or something better (I sincerely hope) then yes it rivals Zchib for incomprehensible garbage. The UNIT seems horribly Fam like, saved only by Jemma. Maybe Russ is even saying, ‘that ain’t easy Chris I know, nothing personal.’

It has to be a constructed reality. I think you misunderstand the ‘death of death’ speech. The Doctor, who doesn’t use a gun (against sentience) is murdering the giver of death. He hopes to reverse what has been done… but ‘death of death is life’ is still nonsense. Or like some theoretical physicist explaining the Black hole information paradox. What’s wrong with a one way information plug hole? Why is infinity (really very big) the same as infinity (you got the sum wrong)?

I’m an intuitionist.

Seriously the statement is on a par with ‘a cold sun, I ask you?’ from Amy’s choice.

It can’t be real. And it would seem to have been designed that way.

As for the art… how it’s been written… well I admit I dunno.

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@classicsrule1

Rose makes plushies. Good for UNIT morale.

Susan Triad’s mind is too highly trained to make tea.

The Vlinx is the all important link to… ah forget I said that.

 

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@classicsrule1 @thane16 @cookgroom

Sutekh’s obsession with hoodie woman was odd. Makes you wonder if that was really Sutekh. What were all the other goddy names about? Is this a reflection of The Doctor himself… Sutekh was obsessed because The Doctor is obsessed and mortified by his own origins? It’s easier for him to believe they’re all dead rather than look them in the eye.

So why saddle a C21st populist nutjob with a High Medieval Celtic handle? Why have a girl called Splice? Why despatch suspiciously Daleky looking Space Babies (who happen to have a Sutekhy looking snot dog in the basement) to a far from certain destination? Why did Finetime and Homeworld remind me of The Library and it’s security system? Why is Rogue a ringer for Capn Jack and was that really REG in ‘the scan’?

Do we abandon the VR theory and decide Russ can’t write anymore? Early days… but bits of this series has been flawed… almost as if he’s trying to out meta Moff. It’s like The Stones doing psychedelia pre Beggars Banquet (actually I’m a fan of Brian in full Dulcimer pomp)… not everyone’s cup of tea.

VR games fits in with the Toymaker. Or it could be another aspect of The Doctor who once made his name rocking The Matrix.

Mrs Flood? Pre Melody River; long since conditioned against The Doctor but has never seen the Police Box. Presumably means she’ll regenerate as a little girl.

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I confess I am slightly underwhelmed.

Too many clues? Or are we all just bonkers?

Problems: in the original, Sutekh’s time corridor was extended into the future. Nothing about the Vortex. Scarman never touched the tardis controls… they would only respond to The Doctor. Maybe Sutekh did something telekinetically. Continuity shmontinuity. But not very satisfactory.

Not sure how Mel was ‘infected.’

The demise of the world was via the show’s new favourite mode of death… echoes the death of Scarman, but I did previously wonder if the Monks might have something to do with Sutekh cos they did turn people to dust. They also employed weird slow astral lightning; Dust Death was to do with the ‘purity’ of consent. DD also utilised in Sleep No More.

In that Dust Death was reversed once Sutekh had been destroyed, it does beg the question in my mind whether any of this was ‘real.’ Were the characters deleted from the program but ‘saved.’ However, isn’t the speculation about virtual reality just a reflection of our dissatisfaction with this kind of fantasy?

Basically The Doctor took the dog for a walk. Very funny.

Positives:

Ruby’s decision was real and believable. Satisfying, like Martha saying that wasn’t what she wanted. Not like Mel going off with Sabalom Glitz (actually I never even watched that). The fact that Mel actually went WAS ironically satisfying. The business of the scan and Ruby’s untraceable DNA was us being played.

The Doctor seems to be tasked with finding his family. Interesting that this seems to be a continuation of the sometimes criticised ‘who is Who/Cartmel 2.0’ arc that commenced with Moff and was then given little more than lip service by Zchib. RTD seems to have defeated the continuity bashers. Anyway, on the basis of this series, Susan and the Doctor’s biological mother seem on the radar, but who knows where that search may lead?

Up in the air: Mavity; Rogue and REG; the fate of the Space Babies; the fate of the Finetime Flakes; why is there a girl called Splice?; wither Rog!; Mrs Flood!; and lastly, when will POTUS pull the plug on UNIT, their recruitment seems out of control folks.

I also need to check what happened to Harriet because I have a nasty feeling she’s still in The Tardis.

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@bunface @thane16

Daleks.

My first reaction on seeing Space Babies was these are Daleks waiting for education and a new chassis.

Then I riffed on the babies’ journey to a planet that doesn’t really want them. What if deal was done with a third party and they were diverted to a very different world.

But then if snot-doggo is a projection of Sutekh what does that mean? Are the space babies projections of something else?

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Interesting stuff emerging here.

@thane16

the Shepherd tone thing was somewhat perverse… how I would love a krautrock/derbyshire mash up tho…

REG would seem to be there… he planted himself in the Doctor’s time stream… what better move than create an alternate Doctor? You know who I’m talking about. Fits with virtual reality.

Of course someone else did more or less the same thing. She is my other candidate for hoodie woman.

If this is happening/has always happened in a wibbley wobbley, why did it ever go away?

 

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@bunface

Your money is on Mrs Flood…

I have made my case about the woman who is a bit ‘rivery’. Mrs Flood, whoever she is, doesn’t know the blue box but knows what a tardis is, yet she is delighted that someone can escape with The Doctor. Her example would seem to be the One who Waits.

You doubt if this Amy but virtual reality could create everything, or it couldn’t really claim to mimic reality.

Yes, I think she is pre Melody Pond River Song. The timelines work. Just need a regeneration and a vortex manipulator. Or otherwise deliver an unconscious but regenerated Mrs Flood back to Leadworth in a Tardis. Cos the Doctor would know.

I think there are few clues for the finale. What’s left that’s unexplained?

Roger ap William = big stick/crazy hat. Who he?

A girl called Splice. She’ll never make s good marriage with a name like that…

The space babies… where are they now? Eggs Stir mmm and eat.

Did Rogue really end up with the birdies at the bottom of the plughole?

I have another candidate for ‘The One’… no sighting on t’interweb and RTD is dragging this out…

I think this will go into the next season.

 

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Predictions…

no clear idea.

It looks as if Ruby could be related to the eye of Horus, which imprisoned Sutekh in the original PoM. I’m guessing her age, revealed in Boom, is how long Sutekh traversed the time corridor or whatever it was he failed to die in.

The fact that she is Sunday makes me wonder about 13… who broadcast on a Sunday. Is she hoodie woman?

Music does seem important or why all the singing? We’ve had Aeolian tones. How about Shepherd tones… the aural illusion of rising intonation whilst the pitch remains the same… or Motorik, the hypnotic 4/4 beat of krautrock that always seems about to ‘fall over’ thanks to judicious use of the crash cymbal??

The rest of the Pantheon??? I doubt if all is at it seems. Sutekh may be a front for someone else. The whole thing may be virtual with, on the one hand, the multiplicity of baddies representing significant people in the Doctor’s past. How else is Susan Triad everywhere?

If so I doubt if this will be resolved in one 45 minute episode.

Lastly, who are all these new bods in UNIT?

Shirley’s gone to Geneva… nothing big, scary and significant in that neck of the woods. She first turned up looking for The Meep didn’t she? Machine guns in her wheelchair. Last seen in the shot BEFORE someone picked up Max Capricorn’s tooth.

Also The Vlinx. What who why?? And the Doctor said… hi! Vlinx… V links…

And where is REG?

Remember The Matrix in Ultimate Foe? Perhaps you’d rather forget… what is real?

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@blenkinsopthebrave @craig

how odd that this should become a theme. I have become familiar with how and why people give… and then what happens with what they give.

My daughter was introduced to a particular charity as work experience and I have supported her in this. Knowing both sides, I can tell those who ask (as they give) why this work is necessary (we in the charity marvel but why shouldn’t they?) and explain how someone may be discharged from hospital, let’s say, be given a carer, but have nothing edible at home. Their needs can be answered, within 2 hours, but only by the charity. Otherwise they might wait a week. No food. Which would be unfortunate.

This is not the only type of problem to be dealt with, but it’s volunteers and organisation, not market forces, that deal with it. Is this necessary? Forever? I sincerely hope not. But I can’t immediately see another solution. And I’m not at all happy about that.

re the set for PoM, and also Image of Fendahl (utterly weird female Sutekh) I’m sure Mick was very grateful for income as he slummed it in the South of France and LA.

Mick was still interesting at that point. I don’t really like his politics or what he apparently allowed Brian Jones to do to himself, but at that stage he still seemed like someone you could talk to in a doubtlessly expensive bar, somewhere.

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@thane16

A dome shaped head??? Strax rocking a hoodie???

Whitdoc is interesting tho. The Doctor who appeared on a Sunday.

On the one hand (Jodie says) she doesn’t show up for anyone but Zchib… on the other… perhaps 13 didn’t swallow the whole of The Loon’s story. Is she atoning for Tecteun’s malign adoption?

3 cradles for the woman who would become The Knightmare. 3 Stooky Babbies. Though there are also apparently 3 nasty godlets in The Pantheon. But are they real or represent something else in a virtual way from ‘t’real world’?

Doesn’t Harriet Arbinger’s list remind you of Davros’ condemnation of The Doctor and ‘the Children of Time’ from Journeys End? Is it just RTD’s style? (ie OTT)

Ruby would seem to be something to do with Horus… see the Eye of Horus in PoM. But, as above, maybe the Pantheon ain’t quite what it seems.

Really mundane explanation… hoodie woman could be Jenny… therefor, yes, Ruby could be Susan.

 

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@blenkinsopthebrave @bunface

Mrs Flood… I can’t really add much more to what I’ve said already. But if ‘she’ had been born or transported to the early sixties, ‘she’ would be 60 odd today. Though ‘she’ might have added the odd decade via regeneration to help her get across the pond in 1969. And, yes, in that case she would resorted to Terminator tactics to get some new threads. A bit like 12 in Victorian London.

nb ‘she’ would still have it in for The Doctor today. Question is which Doctor?

What we’re seeing is classic misdirection. 2 rebus thesp names become snarling death zombies. So Anita must be too! Stands to reason.

Now anagrams for Anita Dobson… aids nanobots, bosnian toad, dona obtains… but only one n in dona. Shame.

There are 70 two word anagrams for Anita Dobson. Yeah must be one of them. Oh no don’t threaten the little old lady!! Presumably Lulubelle has been packed off for adoption. Phew!

Anyway, obviously wrong. Famous last words.

Also. Seriously, you don’t need Paul Hogan to say ‘strewth, there’s a bloke down there with no strides on’ to realise (albeit belatedly) that something is up. Clearly RTD never had to ask Ncuti where the rest of his costume was. And, whatever has been said in interview, I doubt Ncuti and David only had one pair between them that day.

As for Stooky Sunskh? Giggling in the corner? He will be decapitated… metaphorically. He will publish his memoirs, undoubtedly. We will laugh, bitterly. I’m waiting for Susan Twist to start talking pork exports.

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Pyramids of Mars… what is exactly so cool?

1. Not sure if it was mariner 9’s relatively detailed pictures of the martian surface (1971) that revealed the martian ‘pyramid’ – or if that happened later, when ‘the face’ (that wasn’t) was discovered (1976), at least a year after writing. Pink Floyd had a Pyramid poster issued with Dark Side of the Moon in 1974; something must have sparked the creativity of Holmes and/or Greifer. Has anyone written about this?

2. This is probably the first (pseudo) historical that indicated that history might be rewritten. The Meddling Monk was thwarted in 1066, and several monsters have been delivered to Loch Ness as a result of alien activity, while a few Great Fires of London have been started, just in case one went out maybe.

3. Doctor 4 is effectively defeated several times. Sarah is given great responsibility and performs her task admirably but to no avail. There is an impossible issue involving some rather ludicrous logical puzzles (this was a much simpler age) which Sarah compares to The City of the Exxilons in Death to the Daleks from 1974. This is very weird cos she was never there. I’m sure 3 told her everything during long winter nights.

4. The death count is truly marvellous; bettered only by Seeds of Doom later in the same season. But as the Cult of Skaro might point out, better only in that aspect. Mary Whitehouse snapped her pencil in fury.

5. Sutekh’s jackal face reveal, long delayed, is quite terrifying.

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@bunface

“the doctor being a coward?”

I have invoked Doc 5 in comparison…

‘what do we DO Doctor??’

’Ah! Give ourselves up I suppose… by the way, Mr Ruthless Badass, we ARE quite innocent.’

‘Hmmm? What’s that? Oh yeah. Tough.’

An unfortunate production decision: the universe vs The Doctor: not done that before. Next up we’ll turn him into a sartorially challenged unstable and potentially murderous poltroon. No one’s done that either (I wonder why).

Maybe it’s like that this time but in game play mode and with 15 as a schmuck. That is he doesn’t seem to be shaping up as the trickster anymore. Is this down to the bigeneration? Remember, when 15 first appeared the other guy got the trousers…

 

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@bunface
Sunakh???

Stooky Bill

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@bunface

Is this Sutekh worse than the Magma Beast, or the Myrka, or the Primords, or the Mara or Absorbaloff? Probably not. I suspect something closer to the original Jackal/Canopic Beast might have been more chilling. That actually looked like a deranged dictator. Nb He had a non-divine origin in PoM… worth remembering.

Mrs Flood would seem to be Marcus Scarman but maybe she’s not what we are being told to think.
We know RTD’s end of season specials are unfeasibly OTT… I thought the multiplicity of UNIT characters was a bit of an issue but then this was a shot of both IX’s. Still, veering toward the Fam/crowded tardis non-dynamic.
And the actual Sutekh reveal took an age. Army of ghosts was more snappy.
I’m being picky.

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@blenkinsopthebrave @jimthefish

Maybe UNIT got hold of the other doctor. They know him. He also has a Tardis. That’s handy. Two Tardises!

I imagine a MAGA Tardis may well be Republican Red. And it would undoubtedly be significantly less good than the one inhabited by Sexyidris. I do fear the outcome of November, but while an ‘evil’ Tardis could be perverted from its original function, it can’t be coeval with the Universe.

 

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@jimthefish @blenkinsopthebrave

UNIT recruitment?

Philby, Burgess, McLean and Bill Haydon???

And I know I missed the reason for Shirley’s absence… at CERN (possibly)?? Salt and Shake Singularity anyone…?

… but has anyone yet explained The Vlinx? V? Link?

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