Dark Water

Home Forums Episodes The Twelfth Doctor Dark Water

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  • #34688
    Brewski @brewski

    @spider
    Aha! Utter bonkers theory: Danny is Adric!

    Dang it! [Fill in the Blank] is Adric is supposed to be MY schtick! How did I miss that?! 😛

    #34689
    Anonymous @

    @robertdaller I think since you posted this (above) you may well have altered your thinking. At least I hope so.

    “I see why Moffat did it, (It’s not something I would have EVER done, but i’ll live)
    But my main problem, is Missy kissing the Doctor, it’s not even because of how…well… weird it is, it’s because it probably means that all of the Master’s humor, will be directed at ‘Oh i’m a woman, so i’m gonna flirt with the Doctor now.’ Or simply… ‘Oh i’m a woman now’
    So yeah…I feel as though this is really gonna cheapen the character”

    So you think that  a woman as the Master is really going to cheapen the role? As if The Master has to be male or else, it fails?

    The Master was often attracted to the Dr -see Sim’s portrayal. The fact The Mistress is attracted to the Dr -as buddies, as kids growin’ up, as colleagues and then enemies, I think that the kiss sealed the deal and also, we know that the Master plays with his food, so to speak. He’s bored. He enjoys freaking out the Doctor. He feels there’s no one else able to connect with his own ‘brillance.’. His/hers it’s basically redundant -the gender, I mean. And I think along side Delgado, Gomez is the best. Odd, quirky, frightening, controlling and attractive, in a weird way.

    I would assume that Moffat wouldn’t write about the Mistress just as ‘I am flirty, I am woman, let me be seen as such’. This would definitely ruin the character and I don’t think Moffat and the writers would go down that pathway. He’s set himself a challenge and in this episode alone, we can already see how Missy has transcended her gender (no pun intended although it is funny!) and so Moffat is meeting his challenge of bringing back the Master as an evil female. I imagine old  fans and new Who fans are distracted and furious -particularly post modern feminists who may believe writing the Master as a female is somehow disrespectful. I’m a woman and I can cope. I can kiss another woman and not freak about it just as I can see an evil character and not assume she’s the devil because she’s a woman.

    “And it’s starting to seem more and more like EVERY SEASON of Modern Doctor Who has to focus on the Time Lords/Daleks in some way shape or form.”

    I think that being Dr Who, basically ensures that the Time Lords are gonna get a mention. In the last 3 seasons, Smithy had nothin’ to do with them -except in the 50th and in the Christmas Special. We’ve had no Master for years and now, she’s back. But yes, I think Daleks, Cyberman, TL’s are all part and parcel of this particular show.

    Kindest, puro.

    #34690
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    @phileasf

    Loved your list of Clara’s post-it notes. I admire your dedication. In fact, I was inspired by your example to have a look myself, and discovered that, not only does she have two notes for Robin Hood, but also two notes for Three Months.

    You don’t think that she slipped away with Robin in Sherwood Forest when we weren’t looking, and…

    No, perhaps not, but there is something strangely appealing about the idea. One can only imagine her trying to explain it to Danny. Hold on, was that what the phone call was about?

    <OK, I’ll stop now.>

    #34692
    Anonymous @

    @ellethepiff

    Your post has been edited for content.

    While we don’t mind the occasional use of profanity, we do object to the use of words that are considered to be a derogatory term for the mentally ill.

    Consider this to be your first (and last) warning.

    #34693
    seanradmore @seanradmore

    some of my ideas…

    Dr Skarosa…Skaro…home of Daleks, he is/was Davros maybe. Clara was a Dalek first time we saw her.
    key post-it note….Courtney becomes President…
    impossible choice…Clara or Danny??
    Government inspection by the Doctor, obviously they know about it then.

    #34694
    toinfinityandbepond @toinfinityandbepond

    The Master is a lady, he does ladies things.

    #34695
    Brewski @brewski

    Bonk!

    Moffat did not lie. The Master has not returned this season. Missy is not the Master.

    The whole season has been a delusion of the Doctor’s.

    He’s still in the midst of a post-regeneration trauma.

    1) I have made a lot of mistakes, it’s time I did something about that.
    2) A giant, flaming beast.
    3) Who frowned me these lines?
    4) Am I a good man?
    5) Examine your conscience
    6) I am not a hero/I am as real as you are.
    7) Listen. Someone is trying to tell you something.
    8) There is someone else in the universe with your face.
    9) Rescue the Teller. Guilt. Self-hatred.
    10) Fire.
    11) Skovox Blitzer. Fire.
    12) Save the Earth or the Moon Egg? Choices, guilt. Trembling earth.
    13) Someone is trying to reach the Doctor.
    14) Lava.
    15) Cremation. Fire.
    16) The dead do not come back.
    17) You can change history.

    The guilt is that the Doctor saved no one from the eruption of Pompeii. His new face is telling him who he should have saved. The guilt is compelling him to right a wrong, to change history. To go back in time and make his former self save Lobus Caecilius like Donna said.

    #34697
    Anonymous @

    @brewski

    The guilt is compelling him to right a wrong, to change history. To go back in time and make his former self save Lobus Caecilius like Donna said.

    I’m a bit confused (not a new experience 😉 ) but I’m pretty sure The Doctor did save Caecilius and his family!

    However, there’s no escaping the fact that there have been an awful lot of references to fire. Is it possible that The Doctor saved the wrong family?

    #34698

    Random-ish observation that I don’t think has been picked up and might inform the “dream state” theory.

    When they do the swirly camera switch from the accident scene to the memorial wall, although Clara’s clothes change, the silver hatchback driving past doesn’t. It appears to the the one that totalled Danny.

    #34699
    lisa @lisa

    @arbutus you peaked my interest re: Xylo Jones- So Xylo means Forest in greek -in London at 53 King street
    there is a company called Forrest and Jones -this is only 1 short block away from St Paul’s if you look on
    google maps – the company makes custom wallpapers — perhaps the papers have been used on the Dr Who sets
    although I didn’t see anything about that on the companies website or maybe the address has something to do
    with these episodes – maybe neither of these – but it was fun to find all this

    #34700
    ScaryB @scaryb

    Mega thank yous to –

    @phileasf List of post-its is great

    @blenkinsopthebrave – Bless you for the foray into Clara’s kitchen, and confirmation of same. Seriously – the rest of us just aren’t worthy!!

    You also say

    You don’t think that she slipped away with Robin in Sherwood Forest when we weren’t looking, and…

    Actually… we were looking! You may be on to something. That would certainly explain Clara’s guilt in Time Heist, and the phone call, as you say.

    @fatmaninabox – (yet) another keyboard bites the dust in a splutter of caffeine

     

    OK. Bonkers theory #922, part 63 – alternative to the “it’s all in Clara’s/the Doctor’s head theory – they are painting hopping! As in special Gallifrey-hiding paintings. This theory is based on the slightly unreal look to one of the publicity photos, where the Doctor is holding the object from Time of the Doctor (I’m being obtuse in case anyone has really managed to avoid seeing this, but it’s been reproduced as often as the cybermen/St Paul’s scene. (Grr)).  And  the comment about the colours in Robots.

    Er… maybe I shouldn’t be drinking quite so much coffee at bedtime!

    #34701
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @fatmaninabox and @brewski

    However, there’s no escaping the fact that there have been an awful lot of references to fire. Is it possible that The Doctor saved the wrong family?

    He didn’t interfere in Children of Earth and left humanity to handle their own problems. Firstly, humanity failed and as a result, a close friend was forced to murder his own grandchild. Secondly, a good man (and his family) died.

    He did interfere in Fires of Pompeii and while Pompeii died, Earth was saved. Secondly, a good man (and his family) lived; because Donna forced him to go back.

    I don’t think he saved the wrong family; I think he’s trying to tell himself that he has to care. He has to stop letting his Companions do the caring for him. It’s destroying them.

    He has to stop asking whether he’s a good man and just be one. 😉

    #34702

    Oh, not the same car. As you were.

    #34703
    lisa @lisa

    @ Arbutus oops! – it isn’t the cathedral its a different Paul thing- [sorry super embarrassing]

    #34704
    Anonymous @

    @bluesqueakpip

    Thanks for mentioning Torchwood, it’s reminded me of something I meant to post a while ago.

    There’s the bit in Flatline while the TARDIS is in siege mode and The Doctor’s hairstyle changes a few times. At one point it’s flattened down which reminded me of John Frobisher (minus the glasses).

    I’m pretty sure that it happened again during Dark Water but I’ll have to re-watch it again to confirm.

    #34705
    ScaryB @scaryb

    @Purofilion

    Nice summing up of Missy’s character. I’d just like to add re the kiss  – while it could be seen as the expression a long-repressed lust, I agree with your “He’s bored. He enjoys freaking out the Doctor.”  He’s also a (time)lord of misrule, in the great Bugs Bunny tradition –

    Nyeeeh – what’s up Doc?!

    #34706
    Brewski @brewski

    @fatmaninabox
    I’m a bit confused (not a new experience 😉 ) but I’m pretty sure The Doctor did save Caecilius and his family!
    However, there’s no escaping the fact that there have been an awful lot of references to fire. Is it possible that The Doctor saved the wrong family?

    Sorry. I missed a piece of it: The history WE know is the one where the 12th Doctor has come back to ensure they get saved. The ORIGINAL history (that we didn’t know about) had him leave the family behind.

     

    #34707
    lisa @lisa

    Does anyone think that maybe Seb is really the master and Missy is the companion ? except for the 2 hearts part which I haven’t worked out-
    Remember when the Doctor says you are a mess of chemicals to Clara on the Tardis- well I just re-watched that part [again!] and I’m wondering if that might mean she’s pregnant ?
    [totally off topic– I watched it Saturday. and yesterday and today and I seriously now know beyond any doubt that I need a heaping dose of Who-therapy cause I can’t stop!]

    #34708
    geoffers @geoffers

    @brewskiSorry. I missed a piece of it: The history WE know is the one where the 12th Doctor has come back to ensure they get saved. The ORIGINAL history (that we didn’t know about) had him leave the family behind.

    timey-wimey, indeed! are you saying that tennant doc originally left the family behind, and lots of things were different, but that capaldi doc has taken on the face, to tell himself that he needs to go back and save that family, to right the timelines? the only way that would work, is if there’s a tennant guest appearance coming up, where capaldi doc tells him he has to go back!!

    (i don’t have to say)… that would be awesome!!

    @glenistermI’m curious how Missy was able to monitor the Doctor so easily without him knowing (apparently).  Which brings to mind, where is the Master’s Tardis, and in what form?

    so far, there’s no evidence missy has a tardis. the master didn’t have his when he came back in ‘utopia.’ he stole the doctor’s there, and then tried to steal it, again, in ‘the end of time.’ if he’s come back through a crack/regenerated because of bubbleverse time lords, they might have given him another one? but, so far, i’m assuming he’s using other tech to carry out his/her plan…

    @phileasf – thanks for the post-it list, there were a couple of those i couldn’t figure out. the one on the far left is BLINOVITCH…

    #34709
    geoffers @geoffers

    @ everyone – so many great comments, so little of my own to add! lol… i’ve watched the episode three times, now, and i’ve cried every time at the “do you think I care for you so little that betraying me would make a difference?” line. this incarnation is so “emotionless” that he can only resort to words to try to get clara to realize how much he still values her friendship, and how much he cares for her. she’s just so unable to read him, like she used to with eleven. but i love it! for everyone who hates the clara/danny dynamic “taking over the show” all series long, if THAT didn’t prove to you all that it’s still about the doctor and the companion, then there is no proof available…

    as for the rest of it, i love michelle gomez as missy/ the master. i don’t care about the gender controversy (just never had a man crush on the master, i guess?), so i’m just gonna love watching her do her thing with the role. so far, so very, very delicious!! the mimicking an android bit is probably my favourite part of the episode (MISI, mobile intelligence systems interface, indeed)… (@ScaryB – too funny, the parallel with b. bunny!!)

    and the jazzy music when she kisses the doctor is fabulous, i really hope it’s on the soundtrack for this series…

    now, if she doesn’t return next series, i will be disappointed about that

    as others have predicted, i also believe that clara is pregnant. i think she was phoning danny to tell him that, as well as to tell him that she would have to give up travelling with the doctor because of it. due to the nature of the nethersphere, though, i don’t think danny will be coming back to the real world. he may have a role to play as a cyberised version of danny (won’t happen, surely, but wouldn’t it be evil if the boy he killed convinces him to delete himself?), or not, but i can’t see how the doctor will be able to get him physically back, once he’s undone the mistress’s diabolical scheme…

    unless he downloads his consciousness into a backup/duplicate/flesh/auton/android/etc. body, of course! LOL

    #34710
    geoffers @geoffers

    oops! and the jazzy music when she kisses the doctor is fabulous, i really hope it’s on the soundtrack for this series…

    meant to say, soundtrack album, of course… 😉

    #34711
    GothamCelt @gothamcelt

    When Missy was sitting on the steps outside St Paul’s , did anyone else start singing ‘Feed the birds, tuppence a bag’?

    #34712
    Juniperfish @juniperfish

    @craig Spiffy new avatar –  looking good in blue eye-shadow 🙂

    Everyone who has been speculated that Clara is already dead – oooh shivers – I like it.

    @scaryb I agree with you re the kiss, that the Master likes to freak the Doctor out, but… I also reckon the Doctor and the Master had a bit of a fling when they were young at the Academy, and the Master-now-Missy has a lingering pining for the old days, whereas the Doctor tries hard to scrub it from his memory most of the time, given how the Master turned out 🙂

    I too hope Missy is around for a while. I’d like to see her with a companion.

     

    #34713
    Anonymous @

    @fatmaninabox  re: hair

    I’ve watched it also. In flatline and Dark water 12’s hair wasn’t just mashed up (due to small tardis) but actually shorter. I think there’s more than one time line. I’ve watched all the episodes to look for one thing: how short is the hair. I know: dumb right? People’s hair grows. It could be that he’s had a hair cut by Dark Water -but not in the middle of it! And that’s the problem, it’s longer and  then shorter. I’m going crazy.

    I got locked in a cupboard today. By a tradesman. How dicky: “eer, I’m in here. Could you let me out? IN HERE.” apropos of nill.

    #34714
    Anonymous @

    @geoffers  I’m with you on the pregnancy. I was hoping to avoid another….but well, it happens. As for R. Hood, he was, shall we say, sexy?

    #34715
    geoffers @geoffers

    @purofilion – lol. er… i do find a sense of humour extremely attractive, and maybe clara does, as well… but, i’m thinking danny would be the father? not brave, brave sir robin. how else would orson look so much like danny, his great-grandfather?

    IF there’s a pregnancy, and IF the timey-wimey loops from ‘listen’ are as straightforward as they seem, of course…

    🙂

    #34716
    geoffers @geoffers

    @gothamceltWhen Missy was sitting on the steps outside St Paul’s , did anyone else start singing ‘Feed the birds, tuppence a bag’?

    nope, but i did think, “how the hell did she get so far ahead of the doctor, to be casually sitting there like that?” 🙂

    #34717
    ScaryB @scaryb

    @juniperfish – oh I think the Doctor/Master/Missy history is open to a wide range of interpretations, ship away my fishy friend 😉

    @Purofilion – re the Doctor’s shrinking hair – have you made a list of where it suddenly changes? 🙂 And could you possibly throw in when he wears the black sparkly jumper and when it’s a shirt please…? And check if there’s any correlation?! (My current pet theory, but I don’t have time to check it)

    @gothamcelt – Mary Poppins on the steps of St Paul’s – definitely!

    @geoffers – When someone brought up pregnancy a week or 2 back I was definitely in the been there, done that/what a cliche way to get rid of a female character camp. But now I’m thinking it could be Danny’s lifeline (literally!). That’s assuming Orson is his and Clara’s descendant, and we don’t know that yet. But if he is and Danny doesn’t have kids yet, then there’s a paradox in that Clara gets the gunless soldier from Orson to give to the Doctor (defining moment in the Dr’s young life). “IF”, as you say. (And there was the “chemicals” comment this week after he’d done a quick sonic scan). It still works as  get out of Heaven card  if  Orson is only connected to Danny, not Clara. With the amount of running about in the TARDIS she’s been doing she should be at least full term by now!

    #34718
    Anonymous @

    post #34689  I can see how my own words:

    “His/hers it’s basically redundant -the gender, I mean.” would offend everyone. I shouldn’t have said that! No gender is redundant. No, neither gender is redundant. That suggests all those years of feminist struggle could be undone by stating: “Gender? What gender. It be redundant.”

    Well it aint and I am sorry about that.

    New rule: no posting upon waking. Grumpy. Inaccurate.

    Nonetheless, a great discussion about how, now, in this time period, it’s perfectly OK to have a female Master. Would it have worked 10  years ago? No, but now, I think it’s a success: so far.

    Purodiddles

    #34719
    Allon-zee @allon-zee

    Hi !

    Logging on again after a long time offline. Guess I’m a bit of a lurker on online forums,and enjoy reading everybody’s theories and feel I don’t have much to add.
    On this occasion, however, I haven’t read any thoerising here about something I’m 99% sure I saw happen in Dark Water, after reading one comment about it somewhere else :
    When Clara realises Danny has had an accident and just before the shot changed to her standing in the middle of the road, it really looks like the phone doesn’t get dropped, but actually gets absorbed into her hand. There even seems to be a sound effect associated with a sort of sucking effect…

    Did anybody else see this ?

    #34720
    Brewski @brewski

    @geoffers
    timey-wimey, indeed! are you saying that tennant doc originally left the family behind, and lots of things were different, but that capaldi doc has taken on the face, to tell himself that he needs to go back and save that family, to right the timelines?

    Yep. That’s it!

    the only way that would work, is if there’s a tennant guest appearance coming up, where capaldi doc tells him he has to go back!!

    That would be awesome indeed!  However, it could also be done with a bit of clever editing. And of course Capaldi himself reprising his role as Caecilius with a different reaction to events.

    #34721
    geoffers @geoffers

    @scaryb – if clara is pregnant with danny’s child already, she can still live through this, to have at least the one great-grandchild, orson, whether danny is rescued or not. but i don’t see danny getting out of this alive, since the doctor told her that fixing his death would cause a massive paradox, the results of which would (presumably) be catastrophic…

    i was thinking about this earlier, and had to re-watch to get the exact quote, where seb says to danny, “this isn’t really an afterlife… it’s just more life than you were expecting.” and later, missy says to the doctor, “the nethersphere… the people who live inside that think they’ve gone to heaven.” “imagine you could upload dying minds to that. edit them, re-arrange them… get rid of all those boring emotions, ready to be re-downloaded.” this means that danny’s “mind/soul” (or “essence”) is separate from his (soon-to-be-cremated) body, and that it’s going to be uploaded into some other corpse that has already been “upgraded” to an “empty” cyberman…

    now, if he can be “saved” from the nethersphere into a cyberbody, can he also be “saved” to an uncyberised body, like his own, so that he can go on living? (or is his own corpse being “upgraded,” even?) the next episode will tell! but i think it was insinuated that the people “living” there are not who they were. they are reconstructions of consciousnesses (“souls”) only, which are only necessary to complete the process of cyberization on the corpses in the tanks. indeed, having re-watched the danny/clara conversation where she’s trying to get a scrap of info from him to guarantee he is who he seems to be, it looks to me like danny isn’t complete, anymore. he seems like bytes of information that have degraded somewhat, or been put together nearly correctly, but not close enough. so, if he does get put in a new body later, it won’t be the same danny that clara fell in love with…

    it’s very reminiscent of the ditzy girl in ‘silence in the library,’ except in reverse. she became much smarter once she was uploaded to CAL, but her avatar was corrupted. in this case, danny’s “mind/soul” would be corrupted, even if his own body (or an exact body double) could be obtained for it to go back into…

     

    er, i might be obsessing over this a bit! 😉

    #34722
    janetteB @janetteb

    So many great posts it has taken me two days to read though everything. I don’t think there is much I can add however a post of @whisht‘s made me think a little. I lot of people have supposed that the cybermen are not the main problem. Clearly that is Missy. It would seem that she is using the cybermen for some devious purpose all her own no doubt involving tormenting the Doctor and controlling the earth because that always was her/his prime motive. Maybe the cybermen are only a threat, akin to Clara and the keys, do as I want or I will let the cybermen destory your precious planet. The Clara beginning was a taster for what the story is going to be about.

    About the three months, I expect everyone is right though I am rather hoping that it refers to the length of time he has been dead or something else because I am still hoping that Orson will turn out to be a twin or clone of Danny.

    I have yet to do a re-watch as yet. Something to look forward to tomorrow I hope.

    Cheers

    Janette

     

    #34723
    Bluesqueakpip @bluesqueakpip

    @lisa

    Remember when the Doctor says you are a mess of chemicals to Clara on the Tardis

    I’m obviously really cynical – it made me think that Clara’s overpowering love for Danny is chemically induced.

    If Clara’s pregnant, surely the Doctor would’ve already stopped her travelling with him? They’ve now established that TARDIS travel gives babies Time-Heads.

    Different types of love. A mess of chemicals, kill myself to be with you. Self-sacrificing, I want you to live your life. Obsessive, my heart is maintained by the Doctor. Unconditional, your betrayal will make no difference to my feelings for you.

    #34724
    Brewski @brewski

     Capaldi himself reprising his role as Caecilius

    oooh!  That’s why his hair went flat.  They filmed those scenes afterwards. :O

     

    #34727
    Katharine @katharine

    This is, I’m sure, my first tentative attempt at a small theory (I’ve otherwise restricted myself to what I actually know about, which is early modern drama!), but I was struck by the way Clara says ‘I love you…These words from me are your words now’. It’s a lovely way of putting it, but it’s also quite odd – as if she were passing him a code to remember, perhaps? – providing another reason for his refusal to say anything else on the phone to her from the Nethersphere. Maybe, as others have speculated, there really is some kind of time loop, or shift in time, here.

    #34728
    Mudlark @mudlark

    @katharine

    as if she were passing him a code to remember, perhaps? – providing another reason for his refusal to say anything else on the phone to her from the Nethersphere.

    This possibility dawned on me earlier this morning, but you beat me to it.   The implications are deliciously timey-wimey 🙂

    #34729
    Otherstuff @otherstuff

    As regards the post-its I thought this Clara was unaware of the Impossible Girl. Or am I wrong

    #34730
    Brewski @brewski

    @geoffers

    Actually that could work too!  Orson could be a re-downloaded, edited Danny.

    #34731
    Cath Annabel @cathannabel

    @otherstuff  She knows it from the newspaper advert in Deep Breath that was used to get her and the Doctor to the restaurant.

    #34732
    TheBrainOfMoffat @thebrainofmoffat

    Someone earlier got me to thinking about the hand in Day of the Doctor: when the Doctors emerge from the painting, Clara follows them out, but we first see a hand that, if I remember correctly, seems to be the hand of the opposite side. Who would reach across themselves to grab onto something like that? It always looked weird to me, because it looked like an awkward thing for Clara to do. Now, given that Missy said she chose Clara for something, I’m wondering if, maybe, Missy came out of the Gallifrey Falls No More painting with the Doctors and Clara, and is somehow connected to Clara (think of a specific line from the finale trailer, which I won’t mention because it’s a spoiler). Maybe Missy is responsible for the painting in the first place (it’s been a mystery for a year now)! The Simm Master went back to time-locked Gallifrey on the second-to-last day of the Time War, if I recall. The painting was — again, if I recall correctly — of the last day of the Time War. The Master could have made the painting and, I suppose, tossed it through the high council’s hologram thing that Rassilon threw that powerful diamond through to reach Earth. That’s when Queen Elizabeth I could have obtained it. Missy could have been with us for a year now, and no one suspected a thing!

    Other than that, I’m thinking that Gus (GUS?), hard light holograms, and the thing that kept the mummy going are going to figure into the next episode somehow. I actually think that the revelations and events that we got in Dark Water will absolutely pale in comparison to what’s coming up in the next episode, which I think will contain at least one or two HUGE Moffat moments, ripe for the Who history books. Maybe the mummy’s device or an improved derivative of it can be used to “resurrect” Danny’s body.

    #34733
    FlirtingDinosaur @flirtingdinosaur

    I’ve so far seen the episode only once an will defenitly have a rewatch before saturday (get here already!!). also i haven’t had the time to read through all of your posts, working on it, but I got impatient ;D

     

    I really enyoed it. it had me on the edge of my sofa, simply because I can’t wait to fu**ing know everything ALREADY! which I probably won’t, not even by next week because I doubt that all loose ends will be tied toghether, at least not befor the x-mas special.

     

    I was hoping for Missy to be a new character, but now that it’s out I excited to see the Master back. And cudoes to everyone who got the Missy, short for Misstress/Master-thing *bows head*

     

    ok what else, Dannys dead was unexpected. his final I love you to get Clara to hang up was heart breaking and Claras grief and her therefore not-quite-thought-through-behaviour was brilliantly written and executed. brilliant acting all around (again)!

     

    I think it’s great that we had quite a lot revelations already in the first part of the story (re the neversphere, Missy/Master ) but still there’s loads of open questions. – how did the Master get back – was it him coming out of the picture?! – what’s his plan with the cybermen – why take the dead to upgrade – why let them descide themselfs if they want to delet their emotions…

    also: who is the Woman in the Shop. Surley if it was Missy she would have recognised her. especially since she’s been talking to the Doctor about the WitS only few episodes ago.

     

    as I skipped through your posts (and still am) I made a few notes … very random … apologies, but here it goes:

     

    @phaseshift #34474 Spot on! Dresses can be so much more compftable than pants (I hate pants!) But in the end, nothing beats jammies ;D

     

    @thommck @jimbomcmaster The TARDIS is somehow connected to her keys of course. we’ve seen her being summend with one.  so what if it is a preprogrammed ‘thing’ that if all keys are destroyed she dies. or just somehow looses connection to the outside world and shuts down. Would the klicking still work? but of course maybe Clara just wasn’t thinking strait (which she def. wasn’t; also it was all a dream *hmmmm*)

    @robertdaller
    <p style=”text-align: center;”>But my main problem, is Missy kissing the Doctor, it’s not even because of how…well… weird it is, it’s because it probably means that all of the Master’s humor, will be directed at ‘Oh i’m a woman, so i’m gonna flirt with the Doctor now.’ Or simply… ‘Oh i’m a woman now’</p>
    <p style=”text-align: left;”>to be honest, I don’t see this as a big thing. If I suddenly (and probably unintentionally) changed gender, I’d be going on about it too. I don’t think it is a conscious decision (as 10 regend. into 11 he touched his hair and shouted ‘I’m a girl’, and once he talked about a Time Lord *name forgotten* who always hat the same tattoo, who on occasion was femal, so apperantly it happens. And let’s face it to some extend it would change your personality.</p>
    <p style=”text-align: left;”></p>
    <p style=”text-align: left;”>Apart from the fact that regeneration does that anyway! The Doctor always turns out slightly different then his last regeneration, why wouldn’t the same happen to the Master?</p>
    <p style=”text-align: left;”>but still let’s home it doesn’t come down to ONLY that.</p>
    <p style=”text-align: left;”>..ok, thoughts still running away from me, off to try and catch them. more to come (probably)</p>
    <p style=”text-align: left;”>greetings,</p>
    <p style=”text-align: left;”>s</p>
     

    #34734
    FlirtingDinosaur @flirtingdinosaur

    uuupps my post turned out very alien.. help?! o.O s

    #34735
    Charlie Cook @charlie-cook

    Apropos nothing, I was quite tickled that one of the key saving places was a copy of The Time Traveller’s Wife – one of my favourite books. Were any of the other hiding places significant/memorable?

    #34736
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    Remember the image of the skeletal hand holding the sonic screwdriver in a trailer half-way through series 6?

    I have forgotten, but did that image play out in a subsequent episode? (I have a vague memory that it was left unexplained, but I could be wrong.) The reason I ask is whether it might have relevance to next week, in light of what we saw this week. If so, Moffat has been playing a very long game indeed.

    #34737
    Aldaril @erichlovesdoctorwho

    I really badly want Missy/Master to become a companion. I really dont like Clara and would much rather have Missy/Master. Anyone agree? I feel something will have to happen to Clara soon because she has been on the show a couple season now and most companions dont stay more then 2-3 seasons.

    #34738
    Allon-zee @allon-zee

    Totally agree. I don’t subscribe to the “Clara Who” thing. There’s no more focus put on her, I find, than there was on any other Nu Who companions, but I just can’t warm to her character.
    In this episode, I had the distinct feeling, every time she was being very intense (“not the pat on the back sign-off. I love you” or the whole “tell me it’s you and I’ll come and find you”), that I had seen that scence too many times before.
    No Clara hater here, but I think it’s time for her to go

    #34739

    @ all

    Oh, this is just glorious. All the ARSE you need in one handy place.

    #34740
    DrBen @drben

    @pedantOh, this is just glorious. All the ARSE you need in one handy place.

    #34741
    blenkinsopthebrave @blenkinsopthebrave

    @pedant

    Brilliant! The more outraged they are, the funnier they are.

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