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Hubby and I watched the episode again last night. Chuckled anew at the flash cards Clara prepared for the Doctor (as well as her facial expressions), but our favourite laugh-out-loud moment was when the Doctor asked, “Anything else I should know? Someone got a peanut allergy or something?”

Wish I could offer some sort of bonkers theory as to how this is going to be resolved, but I’m barely keeping up as it is. I love reading everyone else’s thoughts, though!

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How wonderfully thrilling this was! A scary, standalone ghost story … except that it wasn’t standalone, LOL! We have to wait till next week to see how it finishes. Argh! I agree with @serahni that the hearing-impaired character will be create some sort of resolution for this dilemma. It’s practically telegraphed to us. But, even knowing that, I’m excited to see how she will resolve it.

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@bluesqueakpip You are not alone in your loathing of acronyms. I’ve wasted, oh, probably half a lifetime sitting here trying to figure them out. Some of us just don’t immediately grasp those trails of alphabet soup.

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@mudlark @serahni

I see that you both have beaten me to it. Sorry, I should have read all the replies before posting!

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Re: the debate of “dumbing down” Clara for the sake of the script, I wonder if it might be something far simpler than what we have discussed. Maybe she was feeling an emotional resonance, a memory buried deep down but still there, of her Oswin incarnation who was permanently trapped inside a Dalek. Wouldn’t that induce a state of shock? After all, the terrors Clara has faced before were yet to come, possibilities that were never fully realized because she, like the Doctor, believes she will win. But those traces of Oswin must be somewhere in her consciousness. I know I have been waiting to see them come to the fore. So maybe that knowledge of a such a terrible fate is what struck Clara.

When Missy was taunting Clara and going on about how stupid she is, I thought that was just Missy being the manipulative bully that she is. Clara wasn’t being stupid, she was figuring things out. But Missy seemed to enjoy toying with her and demeaning her, making her feel stupid. Bullies are very good at pulling the rug out from under the people they have targeted, finding their weaknesses and magnifying them so that the individual loses confidence, even if only momentarily. Missy was inflicting psychological manipulation on Clara. And, in this, Clara is no match for Missy, who has been at this a long, long time.

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@arbutus I think that the Daleks will be far more interesting as a species with the potential for things other than xenophobia and slaughter. Moffat or future writers could take this in interesting directions.

This was one of the things I’d long been tiring of with the Daleks. They were pretty much a one-note foe, seemingly brought back for nostalgic purposes. But understanding that the beings trapped inside are actually screaming different things than “Exterminate!” … well, that creates a whole new chilling understanding of them. I thought Jenna Coleman captured that perfectly. I was wondering if we would see a flashback to her Oswin Oswald incarnation inside the Dalek, but maybe our seeing Clara in a nearly identical scenario was enough. No hitting us over the head with it.

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I’m reading through everyone’s posts and gaining even more understanding of the episode. I really can’t add to the wonderful insights everyone has posted. I found Clara being trapped inside a Dalek (echoes of her Oswin incarnation) absolutely chilling. I feared that, as this was where we first met Jenna Coleman, this might be our parting of ways. I’m happy that didn’t happen … though not for lack of trying by Missy.

Stellar acting by everyone. The reactions of the Doctor as Davros appeared vulnerable were so believable. While I figured that Davros was pulling a deception over the Doctor, it was a masterful one … though not quite masterful enough. I think the reason Davros could pull it off so well is because he truly believes some of it (though which part is anybody’s guess). This seemed to reflect the overarching theme that no one is solely good, or bad. We’re seeing those shadings in Missy.

Favourite line: “Your sewers are revolting.” Love the double-entendre!

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@mudlark I noticed the same thing you did, that for both Missy and Clara, their vaporized “skeletons” appeared when they were shot. So I think they were either killed, or Davros has created some sort of illusion for the Doctor to witness. Either way, I’m thinking his plan is to coerce the Doctor to travel back in time and make a different decision about saving Davros. “Careful what you wish for”? We shall see.

Overall, I loved this episode (though I shall love it even more without commercial interruptions). Capaldi’s Doctor is fully realized now, and I’m looking forward to seeing how this plays out as the season progresses. Also, Clara strikes me as being stronger than in her previous seasons. She now has the spark that I recall from Oswin, which is why I looked forward to the idea of her being a companion. And then I felt that spark was lost in her “Impossible Girl” incarnations. She regained it throughout last season, but I still felt there was something missing. Now, without Danny, and seemingly without any solid emotional grounding to her life on Earth, she seems more … not exactly reckless, because she does care about consequences. But she is not torn between the inner conflict of her “addiction” to time travel and her commitment to Danny (and the lies that conflict necessitated). So she can fully commit to her companionship with the Doctor. In my opinion, this was reason enough to bring the character back for one more season.

One more thing: I was happy that we started out, crack off the bat, on some planet other than Earth. I can understand the reasons for sticking so close throughout much of last season, but I missed the alien locales that lend excitement and fear of the unknown to Doctor Who. It was refreshing to start this new season in that territory.

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Sorry, it appears that I have set off something of a firestorm. The news was all over my Facebook page, and elsewhere, so as others have said, since it was that widespread, I didn’t consider it a spoiler. But I will think more carefully about that in the future. Again, my apologies.

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Hopefully I am posting this in the correct thread. I saw this in my Facebook newsfeed today:

Jenna Coleman ‘leaving’ Doctor Who

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@arbutus It’s true that Courtney barely knew the Doctor. Yet (and correct me if I’m misremembering this) wasn’t she spying on him? I’m not sure how long that had been going on, but as I recall she was keeping tabs on his comings and goings. And then, to have the Tardis revealed to her, and to get a sense of what the Doctor was capable of … well, maybe it wasn’t so much about her knowing him, but her idea of him as some sort of idol. The Doctor was surely the most powerful being to enter her life, and she sensed that at some level. So getting reassurance from him would be special.

@purofilion You expanded on Clara’s reaction, and plausible reasons behind it, far better than I. Thank you.

@arbutus But I completely agree with you about Clara. I enjoy her as a character, but I would loathe such a personality type in real life.

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@arbutus I do agree that Clara’s reaction was an overreaction. But I also think her overreaction was justified. She was absolutely terrified at having that kind of power. Strange, too, since she’s a self- and other-described control freak. Yet I think she didn’t realize how terrifying it is to have the Doctor’s peculiar destiny-changing power. She thought she knew … but only when given that power did she realize how staggeringly difficult such choices are. The Doctor gave her that power, I think, so that she could genuinely appreciate what it’s like for him. Clara thought she wanted it, perhaps (as seems to happen with all the various companions) thought she was more capable than he. Then, when backed so perilously close to the edge, Clara realized she wanted no part of it and was furious at the Doctor for putting her in that position. Hence her hissy fit. It’s not reasonable, but then her reaction wasn’t a rational one. It was entirely emotional. So I can roll with it, even if it’s over the top.

I have mixed feelings about Courtney needing to be told she’s special. True, most children couldn’t care less. But as someone who lacked confidence growing up, I was one of those kids who did need to be reassured in that way. Sometimes you just need that special person to boost you up a bit, and then you really see what you’re capable of.

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@purofilion I so agree with you. I have enjoyed the pacing of Doctor Who episodes this season. As much as I loved the Eccleston/Tennant/Smith Doctors, I felt that the action and pacing were ramped up with each subsequent season, especially during the Matt Smith era. The Doctor seemed to becoming more and more an action hero. I appreciate how Capaldi’s Doctor has been dialed back a notch, so that we get those long, lingering shots and sustained scenes.

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@purofilion You nailed it exactly with the film version of Sherlock. The editing was machine gun-style, but the scenes didn’t carry any power because, as you point out, none of the scenes were sustained, so there was no emotional heft to any of it. It was almost as if the editing were done on some sort of autopilot function: set an editing “tempo” and then use it throughout the entire film. Might look good on paper, but it was a dud for viewers like myself.

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@purofilion Ships crossing, and all that.

And I agree with you about the (film) version of Sherlock. We saw it in the cinema, and I recall our reaction being one of ennui: “Well … it wasn’t awful.” But maybe your assessment is more accurate.

I enjoy your analysis of this episode. I think I’ll watch it with a printout of your post, and maybe I’ll appreciate it even more. Thank you!

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@janetteb I now agree with you about the kids. Watching the episode, uninterrupted by commercial breaks, I was able to get into the flow of the story far better than I was first time around. As a result, the children didn’t bother me nearly as much. On first viewing, they struck me as needless distractions, but I noticed much the same thing you did on subsequent, uninterrupted viewings. Their reactions to the Tardis and other bothersome (to adults) things were delightful. I was OK with the fairy tale aspect of the story, but felt somewhat unsatisfied at the end. Somehow it didn’t come together as well as I would have liked. My first reaction was to blame the kids, but I think you are correct: a lack of internal logic or consistency hindered what could have been a great episode.

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I loved this two-parter and remember being quite taken with it on first viewing. I always thought Rose being smitten with Captain Jack was meant to say, “Look, folks, she’s not smitten with the Doctor. That’s a whole different thing.” IMO Rose and Eccleston’s Doctor had an intense friendship. But I agree that it took a very different turn with Tennant’s Doctor, one I wasn’t entirely happy with. However, it got us to one of the most riveting character write-offs in the series, so with that in mind I don’t complain as much as I would have if they’d dragged it on for multiple seasons.

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@purofilion Thanks for the welcome back! We watch on the Space channel in Canada … which we recently upgraded to HD, hooray! That’s another difference; before we were watching current episodes in low-def (on cable), plus catching up on old eps in high-def (on Netflix). High definition is certainly a vast improvement over that slightly blurry cable telecast.

Sadly Space has commercials, but they’ve gotta pay the bills. Anyway, I will continue to watch on Space because, as you note, I still do feel a certain communal excitement at watching the same program with lots of other folks, especially since we can have our watercooler discussion here soon after. But the interruptions (especially for a show that zips around as much as Doctor Who does) do take away from my ability to hold the story together in my wee little brain.

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Hubby and I are rewatching this season on Netflix. I’m finding I like the few episodes I thought I didn’t like so well … and I think a big part of that is having no commercial interruptions. Even when we record a program and can fast-forward, that’s still an interruption. Things come together for me better without it.

Anyway, in this episode, the Sheriff takes away the Doctor’s sonic screwdriver. As far as I can tell, we never see it returned, yet obviously he get s it back at some point. Can anyone recall when this happened?

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I’m not sure where this news story about John Hurt should go, so I apologize if I have posted it in the wrong place. Mods, feel free to move it to the correct one, if necessary: http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-33151261

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@ichabod Thank you for that clarification! I was starting to worry I was having a Doctor Who “blackout”! Glad to know that’s not the case. You are correct, I never got around to watching Torchwood. That’s what annoys me about crossover episodes or interlinked stories. They’re fine as long as viewers are keeping up with both series. But it’s very odd to see a TV series on Netflix, for example, and know that there are gaps in the story because of a crossover episode with another series. One series is available on Netflix, but the other isn’t, so there’s no way to “complete” the story.

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@ichabod That one’s easy, though: Clara asked to go visit an active volcano (so she could use lava to melt the Tardis keys).

True enough, it was Clara’s prompt which set that in motion. I still like the potential allegory with Vesuvius … but maybe that’s just me wanting to read more into the scene than what was there.

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@ichabod That’s an interesting way to look at it — as if we’re seeing Danny through the Doctor’s prejudiced eyes all along (even when the Doctor isn’t actually present on-scene), and only come to recognize his inner goodness and courage when it’s too late . . . I like it.  Myself, I kept waiting for a few moments between Danny and the Doctor alone, officer and soldier, finding a touch of common ground in their losses to warfare.  The closest we got was in Last Xmas: The Doctor: “Brave.”  DeadDan, without even turning to look at him: “Already dead.”  Fine.

You know, I didn’t actually have that idea formally articulated in my mind until I was typing out my post. But the more I think about it, the more it makes sense to me. Viewers were grumbling all along about why we should care about Danny, and that was the Doctor’s exact attitude about him, too. Our reaction mirrored the Doctor’s own, and we didn’t find much reason to argue with him. We were baffled by Clara’s love for Danny? So was the Doctor, who couldn’t even be bothered to remember his name.

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@ichabod Thing about Pompeii — *did* he do the right thing?  Isn’t Lobus’s descendant John Frobisher, who is forced to make deals with devilish aliens and who then kills his family and himself, thereby “righting” an imbalance created by Lobus and *his* family having been rescued by the Doctor in Pompeii?  It’s a crude equivalency — Lobus must have lots of other descendants, not likely only one branch — but metaphorically the reversal later of the good deed the Doctor did in Pompeii reminds us that all deeds have their good *and their bad* consequences (so it takes tremendous and steady nerve to act heroically at all if you think about it).

OK, I don’t remember this at all. Which means nothing, except that I don’t remember it (and that’s true for a whole lotta things). Hmmm, looks like I need to revisit some past episodes. But I take your point, and this is a theme that is well-explored by Doctor Who, the whole idea of, “Change one thing (presumably for the better), and there are repercussions down the road (not always for the better).”

I don’t think the scene in Dark Water took place at the eruption near Pompeii, only because the volcano in Dark Water was in fact an illusion that the Doctor provided for Clara to work out her stratagem in, using the “dream patch” to distort her perceptions.  It wasn’t a real location at all, and vanished as soon as he took the patch off her palm.  Although he could have used memories of Pompeii’s volcano as the model for the illusion on, I suppose.  Still, that was just a dream, just a dream, just a dream . . .

Yes, you’re right. I guess that’s where I was going with this idea: Even in a dream state, what is the purpose for choosing that place? Is it some echo from the past, similar to his reason for choosing that face? I still would like to see them explore that more, but I have a feeling that aspect of this Doctor’s regeneration rediscovery is over and done with, and we’ll be moving on.

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Going back to the discussion about Danny, I too lament his rather “one-note” character development, but as @ichabod notes, that can’t be solved by bringing him back for Season 9. So I hope the writers don’t go that route. I felt that for as little development as Danny got (which resulted in my not really caring about his and Clara’s relationship, and feeling rather annoyed that I was “told” I was supposed to), he redeemed himself remarkably well in Dark Water and Death in Heaven. It was as if I’d been allowed to discover, in hindsight, all about him that mattered to himself, to Clara and to the world … and the Doctor finally got a glimpse of that, too. Maybe that was the point. Sometimes we do learn these things too late, and then the people are gone before we can appreciate and pay proper attention to them. For me, the two-part Season 8 finale gave me closure on Danny’s character. I hope the powers that be see it that way, too.

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Hello, all! Been away a while. It’s a joy to return and find some mostly scintillating discussion about this episode. Some are addressing the hope that Capaldi’s Doc (took me a while to work out who CapDoc is) might revisit some past mistakes. This wasn’t a mistake, but rather a case of the Doctor doing the right thing (thanks to Donna), but does anyone think he might revisit Pompeii to see where he got “this face”? I would enjoy a return of Tate for this sort of reunion, not with “her” Doctor but Clara’s. (It’s still tantalizing to think this might be the very volcano at which he and Clara found themselves at the outset of Dark Water.) I would love to see Donna get a more satisfying “end” than what we got with Tennant’s Doctor. A girl can dream, eh?

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@juniperfish I too enjoyed the relationship between Amy and Eleven. For me it took on a Peter Pan quality … except that unlike Peter Pan’s Wendy (who as a grownup feels she is too old for such things), the adult Amy gets to fulfill the wishes of her child self, Amelia, and go on adventures with her Doctor. Their relationship had a wonderful whimsical quality that really appealed to me.

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Here’s a goofball idea (and I don’t think this is an original thought; seems to me I read someone else making this observation, but I’ll just take it a step further): What if the Dave on Shona’s list is actually Professor Albert? The shock of seeing the professor killed by the dream crabs has stayed with her in her waking state and troubles her enough that she is now willing to forgive him for that “comforting” pat on the knee … which I’m thinking she experienced in real life, and so it played a role in her dream. Dave is still alive; we just don’t get to see him wake up, because Shona checking that item off on her list leaves it to our imagination as to how that will play out.

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@drben I like your bonkers theory! It’s along the lines of what I was thinking, except that I didn’t take the time to imagine the elaborate backstory that you did. Bravo!

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@purofilion I’ve been lurking. But until we had a new episode to talk about, I haven’t had much to say, LOL! I guess I need that inspiration to get on a roll. I’ve also been busy with work leading up to Christmas, and also taking part in the seasonal overindulgence.

@Barbara Lefty Which does get us back to, that house ain’t real…

Which reminds me of my earlier faulty logic. I was thinking that at the very least, Clara was dreaming her father’s house because of Danny asking Clara if it was her dad knocking. But, of course, if it were her father’s house, why would he knock at his own front door? Duh.

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I really can’t add much to what everyone else here has stated so eloquently, except that “Midnight” was the episode that made me a Doctor Who fan. The minimalist sets and powerful acting revealed a challenging story that was well beyond the fun diversion I’d thought Doctor Who was.

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By the way, when I talk about something being “real” or believing in Doctor Who, it’s not that I think I’ll bump into the Doctor or one of those characters on the street one day. It’s not that kind of reality. But I do believe in some of the basic truths the stories convey.

One episode, in particular, stands out to me because I consider it the one that made me a Doctor Who fan: “Midnight” from Season 4. The special effects are sparse; the eerie atmosphere is achieved largely through great acting. We learn that the worst does not always bring out the best in people; that’s a hard truth to face about human nature, because it means we have to wonder what we would do in this situation. Even though this frightening idea is conveyed through fictional characters, the message is powerful because we care about the Doctor. (And, to tie this in with “Last Christmas”: David Troughton, who was in “Midnight,” is the brother of Michael Troughton, who was in “Last Christmas” … and of course they are both sons of Patrick Troughton, Doctor No. 2.)

I think this is often a difficult concept to tackle. For some, “real” means tangible, completely grounded in reality. But I think it can also mean vivid, or deeply felt, and stories can help us experience that and sort it out. As @arbutus so eloquently put it, in this episode we’re allowed to make our own choices about what we consider to be real. That’s what I mean about finding truth in fiction, and believing in that truth (even though it’s fiction). I know, that’s probably as clear as mudflaps!

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OK, here’s the link to the “Last Christmas” extra (which, by the way, is lots of fun, so I thank @nine9 for mentioning it). I watched it all the way through but didn’t hear anything about Jenna staying or going, so there must be another extra that I’ve missed? Dunno.

@arbutus In my view, the tangerine on the window was meant to allow the audience (and most importantly, the children in the audience) to believe if they choose to that Santa was real. There was no way that Moffat was ever going to write a Christmas episode, knowing that many families watch with small children, and have it shown that Santa is not real.

Absolutely, I agree. Fantasy is clearly a basis for most, if not all, of Doctor Who. So why not include Santa Claus within a fantastical realm? I think he fits perfectly in that “what if” world.

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@nine9 And I love that my comments are not appreciated for simply making a statement that Santa Claus is not real.

I don’t think that’s the problem. I think it’s more an issue of stating opinion as fact. You said that “Making Santa Claus real in the Who universe or in any universe would be terribly wrong. He cannot be real.” That may well be your opinion, and I respect your opinion. You have every right to it, just as each one of us does. Consider this: There are many people who believe in God or a Higher Power given some other name. There has long been a conflict between science and spirituality, because there is precious little in the spiritual world that can be scientifically proven. Yet people still believe, and those beliefs are very real to them.

We face a similar dilemma in this whole question of whether Santa Claus is real. To many children, he certainly is. So why would it be “terrible” to make Santa Claus real in the Whoniverse? After all, the Whoniverse is populated by countless other fictional characters we enjoy watching … and, to varying degrees, believing in. Not necessarily as being “real” … but as being worthwhile pursuits for our imaginations, intellects and emotions.

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@nine9 I’m not sure the point is really whether any of us wants Santa Claus to be real. I think many of us are happy to entertain the “what if” fantasy of Santa Claus being real, which is a nice bit of escapism from the drudgery (and worse) of our world. I can think of things far worse than wanting Santa Claus to be real. And I think part of the magic of Christmas, for adults, is enjoying the belief of children. That was something this episode portrayed quite effectively, for me.

As for Jenna leaving, I haven’t seen the extra you refer to, so I could very well be wrong about this. But I felt that these rumors were nothing more than that, rumors planted in the media to build up anticipation over how the Christmas special would be resolved.

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@nine9 Making Santa Claus real in the Who universe or in any universe would be terribly wrong. He cannot be real. By the end of the episode we are left to ask ourselves if they are still dreaming or if anything of what happened was real. It could also be Missy behind all that.

I disagree … but then that’s what opinions are all about. My perception of that ending was that it was Santa Claus who orchestrated the whole thing to reunite Clara and the Doctor, so that they could repair their Gift of the Magi lies to one another. The tangerine, Santa’s favorite gift, is his calling card. The fact that it was left on the window for us to see tells me he is “real” … or, at least, as real as things get in the Whoniverse. After all, Santa Claus did tell the Doctor, “Before this Christmas Day is done, you will be glad of my help.” And wasn’t he? I think so. He and Clara, both.

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@bluesqueakpip It’s just that, it being Christmas, and having seen her family visit her – I’m guessing that this time, she’s at her Dad’s. The Christmas tree has a family sized group of presents around it and the house is much too big for one person – but about right for Dad, Stepmum, Gran living-in and a guest-room for Clara to visit.

I think you are correct, that Clara is at her dad’s … or at least dreaming that she’s there (depending on when the dream actually starts). When she and Danny are downstairs, snuggling on the couch, there’s a knock on the door (this turns out to be the Doctor). As Clara is getting up to answer the door, Danny asks Clara if it’s her dad, and she nods, then says not to get him started on golf. So Clara’s father’s house is indeed the setting for Clara’s dreamscape with Danny.

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@cubefox Does anybody like her?

I daresay if you bother to read through some of the posts on this forum – heck, just this thread, alone – you might find a few people who like her.

@bluesqueakpip … yeah, really sulk. By the volcano. It matches his mood.

I like that. It fits.

@jimthefish Well, that was really good. I’m glad that SM is continuing his tradition of the last few years of using the Christmas episode as a continuation of the narrative rather than a ‘time out, it’s Chrisssstmasss!’ episode. Lots to love in this episode too and setting up the Doctor and Clara nicely too.

Amen!

@macphisto96 Yet Clara discovers that the Doctor is the most fantastic thing of them all – and in the midst of a dream, the Doctor literally takes the reins and rediscovers his own childlike sense of joy.

I was so happy to see this Doctor finally having fun! It brought me a surprisingly strong feeling of joy.

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Ah, OK, I knew that Jenna was rumored to be leaving. Interesting that perhaps that was just a red herring, too? Or maybe Jenna changed her mind?

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OK, I have missed out on what happened with the Daily Mirror. A synopsis, please?

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@twholt I thought the Doctor kept waking up at the volcano where Clara betrayed him. Which is a bit confounding, since that in itself was a dream state. And is that volcano Pompeii? Hmmmm . . . .

@geoffers Good point about the “three months” Post-It note. It makes sense that it would be the length of time she’d been traveling with the Doctor and lying to Danny about it.

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Well, well, well. That was not at all what I was expecting. I guess the “three months” Post-It note was a classic case of misdirection. Now I’m not sure what it meant. But we saw Clara neither pregnant nor dying … leastways not in the way that we were guessing. So still we are left wondering how we met one of Danny’s descendants. Maybe that question will be left unanswered.

I was certain we would see a resolution, or at least a partial one, to the missing Gallifrey, but it never came up. So I guess we will have to wait till next season to see how that story is pursued.

Many of the episodes we’ve seen this season would have terrified me as a child … and this bit with the dreams is no exception. Never knowing for sure when you’re awake? That will keep the kiddies lying awake at night. It certainly would have me.

One thing I really enjoyed about this episode was seeing how Peter Capaldi and Jenna Coleman’s characters finally connected. They now have a warmth and camaraderie that had been hit or miss throughout much of Clara’s tenure. I hope they are able to develop that even further in the coming season, especially now that they know they can be completely open and honest with one another.

I really, really want to see this episode uninterrupted by commercial breaks, which completely took me out of the flow of the episode. They are a necessary evil, I know, but I’m sure everything will come together for me far better when I can watch it the way it was meant to be presented.

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I just watched this on Netflix (as contrasted with my previous viewings on Canada’s Space Channel). It was wonderful to see it in high definition, and commercial-free. I’d forgotten so much! As Nightmare noted, it was such a joy to see the three Doctors sparring with one another. There was a remarkable contrast yet cohesion between the three personalities, which I really enjoyed. The Moment and Clara had great scenes, as well … as did The Curator … or Doctor? Hmmm … just writing about it makes me want to watch again!

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I actually did love this episode, a very poignant sendoff to Tennant’s Doctor. I just came across this interview with Timothy Dalton (and I hope I am posting it in the correct thread; if not, then mod please feel free to move it). In it he discusses his role on Doctor Who, among many, many things.

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@arbutus Bravo! I agree completely.

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Once again, I am very slow on the uptake (and I apologize if someone else has already mentioned this): But here we are, starting out with an active volcano. And Pompeii is where the doctor found “the face” he chose for this regeneration. I wonder if the reference was intentional … and if so, why didn’t the writers dwell on it a bit more deeply? I keep waiting to see the doctor finally connecting the dots between The Fires of Pompeii and now. But maybe I’ll be waiting a long, long time.

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@badwulf – Interesting point about Dr. Skarosa. It certainly is an intriguing choice of name, but I’m not sure if that was intended by the writers as just a little in-joke, or something more significant. We certainly have no proof that the Cyberman in Dr. Skarosa’s dark water tomb was, indeed Dr. Skarosa … or if such an individual even existed. After all, the whole 3W scheme was a con, so it stands to reason that its “creator” could have been, as well.

However, it’s just as interesting to surmise that Dr. Skarosa was indeed an “idiot” who fell for Missy’s Poltergeist/white noise parapsychobabble and built an entire business around it, at Missy’s behest. Who better to be at Missy’s beck and call than someone like that? He might then be eager to join 3W’s other wealthy clients and be uploaded to the Nethersphere, his body in a dark water/Cyberman tomb. As the company founder, maybe that was one of his contractual benefits.

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@badwulf Does anyone else have a problem with novels written in the Present Tense?

For me it really depends on the novel. I agree with @thommck – If the atmosphere an author intends to create is that in which anything can happen, and that events are not following some “already happened” pre-known narrative, then present tense works very well.

One of my favourite contemporary authors is Miriam Toews. Her “A Complicated Kindness” would not have worked, IMO, if told in past tense. Its immediacy keeps us on our toes, much the way real life does. Present tense also offers the hope that, when things are going badly, they can get better. The author doesn’t always deliver on that promise, but the hope of it is part of what sustains the reader to the end.

[nerys @replies]

@scaryb you are correct, I hadn’t quite thought that through. The issue wasn’t that people who chose cremation wouldn’t have their souls uploaded to the Nethersphere, but rather they couldn’t be downloaded into a Cyberman body. Hence Seb’s question to Danny about cremation. So Osgood and others who got zapped into cremains by Missy could be in the Nethersphere … but without a way out. Which may have been more merciful, considering the only option seemed to be coming back as a Cyberman (excepting the boy Danny sent back to Clara).

@lisa yes, I thought that was Dr. Skarosa’s Cyberman who was housed in Dr. Chang’s office, then emerged to confront Clara. My sense was that maybe that had originally been Dr. Skarosa’s office, which Dr. Chang took over.

[nerys @replies]

Something I just noticed, watching this for the fourth time (and yes, I’m a bit slow on the uptake): When Missy uses her device to kill people, what’s left are effectively cremains, when of course cremation was the very thing 3W warned against. Was this to ensure that whomever she killed, like Osgood, couldn’t be uploaded to the Nethersphere, thus becoming Cybermen?

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