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26 November 2013 at 10:13 #21653
Nah. It’s a classic trusted PA trope. Important people have “people”. She is Kate’s Clara to the Doctor’s..er.. Clara.
26 November 2013 at 09:52 #21650
26 November 2013 at 09:45 #21648No, she definitely says Marm (ma’am). I know a home counties accent when I hear it 😉
@Shazzbot
very similar line to Idris in The Doctor’s Wife, about not being able to tell the difference between past and future?
That’s Gallifreyan engineering for you!
25 November 2013 at 22:58 #21607@Shazzbot
Nah, and work has rather inconsiderately butted in.
Hmm. Am in London so might be able to pick some up…
I did have time to go on troll patrol though.
25 November 2013 at 20:25 #21591This made me LOL
25 November 2013 at 19:54 #21584@Shazzbot
You haven’t seen my best work of the day yet….
25 November 2013 at 19:47 #21583Actually Capaldi!Doctor didn’t say anything about being the 13th.
“All twelve of them”
“No, all thirteen”
“th” was not used anywhere.
Similarly, Clara has always referred to “all 11” a number we now know to be false, even without Capaldi!Doctor.
25 November 2013 at 18:13 #21544Pah. Bloody part-timers.
25 November 2013 at 18:05 #21542WHO STOLE @SHAZZBOT ?!?!?!?!?!
25 November 2013 at 18:04 #21541Sorry @craig – couldn’t resist:
25 November 2013 at 12:54 #21518The strange bit of that character is that she knew she wasn’t a Zygon (as she had the inhaler) and she shared this info with her counterpart. This has the potential to lead somewhere if we ever go back, or see the after effects, of the negotiation.
On reflection, I think this was a very clever bit of writing. The two “foot-soldiers” had worked out the truth, but silently conspired to let the peace process continue, rather than go running to the boss (particularly significant given Moffat’s axiom that the bad guys do not know they are bad guys).
25 November 2013 at 12:11 #21516Couple of things:
– I strongly resent the implication that there is something passive about my aggression. I have been on the internet way to long to have anything other than zero tolerance of trolling and fuckwittery. I’m quite happy to let everybody else be the good cop;
– Posting a tendencious view is one thing, but when you are so comprehensively schooled ((c) @pufferfish ) on your factual errors, your fallacies and your blindness to what actually happened on screen and still peddle the same line in the same tone at the same interminable length, that may not be trolling but it is the troll’s irritating younger brother;
– To then resort to trying to teach the rules of writing…well, that was quite funny actually;
The thing is this.
There’s a physicist watching Ronnie O’Sullivan take a shot. He understands exactly how the energy from the moving cue will propel the cue ball, how its impact with the red will send it off in just the right direction to avoid the pink near the pocket and drop in, while the cue ball goes off in just the right direction at just the right pace to be lined up for the next shot.
Then Ronnie hands him the cue. When he takes his shot he rips the felt, gets completely under the cue ball and launches it off the table into Big Mike the Heavy Metal Biker’s(1) pint of Old Wifebeater.
Because knowing the physics of snooker isn’t the same as understanding snooker.
That physicist is you;
Steven Moffat is Ronnie O’Sullivan;
I’ll let you work out who Mike the Biker is.
Now. Do you know what stasis is, or don’t you?
(1) Big Mike the Heavy Metal Biker is a fictional construct created for the purposes of metaphor, fable and narrative comedy. And resemblance to real Mike the Bikers, Big, Heavy Metal or otherwise, is purely coincidental.
25 November 2013 at 02:02 #21479The Doctor’s ‘bigamy’ & sometimes poor treatment of his wives is a bad enough thing, without throwing ‘snogging his echo-(grand)child’ into the mix…….
The Doctor never married anyone contemporaneous, so no bigamy, and Clara snogged him, evidently with the primary intent of making him blush (she was a barmaid, remember!).
25 November 2013 at 02:00 #21478@bluesqueakpip @ardaraith
She also seemed very attracted to that photo of Susan (which I admit might just be a reference back to 1963, just as we saw a female teacher (Clara) with a male teacher at Coal Hill school).
And a male teacher in full Brylcreem style at that!
I liked the photo touch – I’d go for the simple tribute, except that style of thing is usually reserved for the departed and Carol Ann Ford is still very much with us (and the fact that it wasn’t Sarah Jane may therefore suggest it could well be plot-significant. Surely, if plot did not demand otherwise, Lis Sladen would have been featured).
Rather than still in the time stream (which to my mind would negate this episode) I wonder if the Doc is now simply able to locate Claricles at will.
25 November 2013 at 00:09 #21468The rules of storytelling are not like the rules of physics.
Blimey. Who’da thunk it. I refer to the question I asked earlier.
Trouble is you keep using straw men. You still haven’t told us if you know what stasis* is. ‘Cos your entire snark about playing bridge vanishes once you actually listen to the dialogue.
As Will McAvoy put it, snark is the idiot’s version of wit. So why not aspire to something higher?
*Not to mention the correct spelling of Lethbridge-Stewart
24 November 2013 at 23:33 #21466There was even a classically style one right at the beginning. Seriously: people who try to lecture Moffat about the rules of story telling are on very sticky wickets (not least because the point of learning the rules is so that you can break them with impunity).
Moffat’s entire tenure is about time and what can and cannot be re-written
Can, cannot or should not as you particular example illustrates! There was nothing to prevent the Doctor, except River’s plea. And even then, the crafty bastard found a loophole!
What is real? is also a running theme. That and terrible, terrible loneliness.
24 November 2013 at 23:08 #21462BY THE EFFING WAY PEOPLE:
You do realise that this story had a honking great, proper, full-on Deus Ex Machina in it and no-one has complained.
24 November 2013 at 23:05 #21460A few (read loads) of tweeters pointed out that, if the Tardis just made the Doctor a new sonic every time he lost one, as in Eleventh Hour, then giving one away to River (per SiL/FotD) was hardly as special as made out. To which he replied: Oh, er OH LOOK! KITTENS!
Now, if it is always his, with just a new case the specialness is kinda restored and he really would, most likely, be careful about who he gave one to.
Actually, that is a pretty damned clever retcon.
@All
Does anyone know if this is the first time Delia Derbyshire has got an arranger credit. My memory (and the recently shown Unearthly Child supports it) is that it was always Ron Grainer and the BBC Radiophonic Workshop.
24 November 2013 at 22:59 #2145824 November 2013 at 21:48 #21435It wasn’t the same sonic — wasn’t Matt’s destroyed in A Christmas Carol and he said he was going to have to build a new one?
The same “at a software level”. I think Moffat was trying to restore the specialness of giving River Song her sonic (he confessed to arsing that up when he was still in Twitter).
I’m glad they left it ambiguous as to who Tom was exactly though. If we’re talking him being the 28th Doctor or something, then that kind of makes a nonsense of Trenzalore and indeed gets destroys what sense of mortal peril we have left with regards to the Doctor. If we know he’s going to live to a ripe old age then I feel something might have been lost slightly.
I think it is fairly clear and I think Moffat was making the rather delicious point that spoilers aren’t everything…. We already know that the regeneration limit will be fixed and so Trenzalore will in some way become moot. The journey is the thing…
24 November 2013 at 21:39 #21434(a weapon of mass destruction)
To be…er… pedantic…a “weapon if ultimate destruction”. Seriously: what more explanation does anyone need?
24 November 2013 at 21:35 #21432@DelValdron
Let’s keep it civil. It’s one thing to have legitimate disagreements about a work of art or storytelling. It’s another to slip in a snide personal insult.
By all means – just as soon as you explain whether you need “stasis” explaining. ‘cos, the thing is, there’s a term for those who continue to pursue a line after a factual inaccuracy or false premise has been pointed out. I’d like reassurance that the disagreement is “legitimate” (although I must admit, trying to lecture @bluesqueakpip on storytelling is one of the more amusing things I’ve seen today (outside the flaming that poor old Viv Groskop’s getting over on the Grauniad)).
(Oh, and it is shown in the ep that Zygons took on the thoughts of whoever they duplicated. It was established as long ago as AGITF that such doors, once opened, work two ways. That’s how she knew their plan.)
24 November 2013 at 19:35 #21419*unless of course a side effect of the Time War is to age people prematurely (but that’s a whole other theory)
You owe me a new keyboard.
24 November 2013 at 19:31 #21418Nice cap! Now that’s what you call a passive aggressive dig ((c) asgil).
24 November 2013 at 19:30 #21417s. However, it was a baggy old, saggy old beast of a script, which rather reflects the totality of Who thus far.
There was one moment when it flagged a bit for me. Then Billie turned up and all was well.
Given more time, it would indeed have been great to consider in-depth serious peace negotiations between humans and Zygons.
No. The fact of negotiations was the point. Details are for novelisations and fanwank. The Zygons were the B plot.
There are lots of interesting directions the long narrative could go in from here.
I hope it is the “the search for home” rather than the “Search for the Time Lords.” It think, in modern society, such a story could make some very pertinent points.
that there’s more to Osgood and Clara having a similar name
I think it was a thread left nicely dangling while they sussed fan reaction to Ingrid Oliver.
So they’re all going to… what, spend the next two or three centuries playing bridge with each other until its time to get on with the invasion?
They are in stasis. This was clearly explained. Or did you need the concept of stasis explained?
Uh uh uh! Nope. First rule of storytelling is show, don’t tell. Second rule of storytelling is that if you can’t show, then tell. Don’t show, don’t tell? That’s storytelling failure 101.
Tell me, do you patronise for your country?
Fantasy (and sadly, these days, SF) is weighed down with tedious, turgid, flatulent bags of old fanwank hiding like snivelling little shits behind the phrase “world building”, the worst example to taking a simple and sensible caution (show, don’t tell) and turning it into an article of faith, and end in itself, forgetting that storytellers are not, in the final reckoning called story showers. Moffat has been a delightful antidote to that tedious load of old toss.
The first rule of editing is: “cut out the tedious shit”.
24 November 2013 at 17:03 #21375of the High Council referring to the Doctor as having gone rouge.
I bet that made them blush 😉
24 November 2013 at 16:58 #21373Well, let me ask some questions about the Zygons. Are they the most lacksadaisical alien invaders ever? I mean… come on, they’ve had their invasion plot going on for two or three centuries? Jesus, talk about low impact, or low energy. They’re slackers
I recommend you listen to the dialogue. This was quite clearly explained.
Do what exactly? Just hope that the paintings will be stored in some secret archive which will give them indirect access to super-weapons?
They thought they had a Zygon queen to set things up for them. They were wrong.
As for the rest of your post, your over-focus on plot devices seems to have caused you to miss the story.
Except:
Look, how many year have we been waiting to see the Time War,
Is that the Royal “we”? I really hate it when people presume to speak for me.
But what does it do? How does it do it? Does it rewind the Big Bang? Implode a galactic cluster? Does it unmake reality?
It’s like asking how “hard burn” on Serenity works. Who cares? It just does and it makes the ship go faster.
If feel sorry that you let an obsession with trivia blind you to just what a staggeringly good bit of story-telling this was, but I guess Moffat’s economy and refusal to get bogged down in minutiae isn’t for everyone.
24 November 2013 at 14:10 #21356Apropos of everything, a rather beautiful tweet from the BBC Radio 4 Extra account a day or two back (also linking to a play)
Dear Delia Derbyshire,
Thank you for everything.
Love,
Electronic Music.
http://bbc.in/1aVal1V #DoctorWho pic.twitter.com/NOjILcAr8D
24 November 2013 at 13:58 #21355A couple of follow-ons:
– Right at the start, in the National Gallery, where the eye-close up switched between Matt and another – those were Tom Baker‘s eyes, not Hurt’s.
– Shout out to Martha re the need for more batteries;
-Hadn’t appreciated just how funny the running “inhaler” gag was – a genuine, warm-hearted shout out to over-excited fans down the ages deadpanned brilliantly by Oliver and Redgrave;
– Osgood’s prettier sister;
-Had noticed just how ecclesiastical the barn where War Doc met Bad Wolf looks (also, nice otherworldly plough in the background).
And just how fucking good is Moffat at mis-direction? Gleeful Clara was the real thing.
24 November 2013 at 12:23 #21349Couple of bits (including some haul-ins from the old thread):
1. A pity Eccleston turned out to be every bit the pompous prig I suspected (I so wanted to be wrong), but also worth remembering the conveniently-airbrushed-snottiness of one T Baker for several years after he left;
2. Huge props to Bille Piper for a stellar performance;
3. A LOST SHOE REFERENCE!
4. “I may have the body of a weak and feeble woman…but so did she!”
5. We still don’t actually know who Clara is. But an older doctor coming in, with a fresh-faced sidekick..;
6. Too many delightful references to catalogue. Absolutely spot-on review at Den of Geek;
7. Love the idea that the Doctor will one day retire to become The Curator (rather than The Gardener or The Bee Keeper);
8. A little wary of the return of Gallifrey for reasons well-delineated in this discussion between RTD and Verity Lambert;
9. The brilliant use of silence during the “big decision”. Silence fell. Utterly, utterly brilliant. The whole universe holding its breath;
10. “Timey..what?” and Ten denying responsibility;
11. 10.61m in the overnights. Take that Truckles.
12. I think Jemma Redgrave really is a Lethbridge-Stewart (in one of her “behind-the-scenes” she casually mentions that her dad was an actor (Corin)- A REDGRAVE! In Dr Who!)
13. Clara’s despair at seeing her Doctor ready to push the button, and her Doctor making her explain before he did it, giving jaw-jaw time to outflank war-war.
13 for 13.
24 November 2013 at 02:16 #21322Oh, and in a fine ensemble performance I think Billie Piper deserves a shout-out. I thought she was outstanding.
24 November 2013 at 01:59 #21318As somebody on the Graun blog noted, if you can follow A Christmas Carol or It’s A Wonderful Life, you can follow Doctor Who.
23 November 2013 at 23:07 #2130523 November 2013 at 22:55 #21303Den of Geek review, with best line ever “Shall we lend Michael Bay the DVD, or do you want to?”
23 November 2013 at 22:00 #21290Get a 404 when I click the Home link @craig.
23 November 2013 at 21:58 #21288@fivefaces – it seems to me that it establishes End of Time, which hung on the whole time lock thing – which always seemed a cop out to me.
Now we see how that version happened (so we also know that 10ant snogged Liz well before it!).
23 November 2013 at 21:13 #21277My brain is a bit ‘splodey but also..
…just when you thought he’d forgotten about the Silence….
23 November 2013 at 21:07 #21275OK. Am going to need some time to absorb that.
Bloody hell!
But can I just say LOST SHOE REFERENCE!!!!!!!!!!
23 November 2013 at 00:55 #21193From a post on the Graun blog
“Yeah the bit with you-know-who looking across the console at Hartnell was amazing and shows what a superb actor the guy is. He says everything without saying a word. And those bits of the console he puts his hands to are, I believe, the Tardis’s ‘telepathic circuits’.”
If true, that is simple genius.
22 November 2013 at 00:45 #21129I’m going to slap a fiver on the table and say that that scene will be viewed again, from a slightly different angle, on Saturday.
21 November 2013 at 22:28 #21103Well that was bloody marvellous.
21 November 2013 at 18:00 #21075A little something for all of you, and on-topic to boot.
21 November 2013 at 15:44 #21071A recipe is an idea.
The idea of Clara is constant. As we have seen the specifics of any given Clara are shaped by circumstance.
(Google Ceci n’est pas une pipe if you are unfamiliar with it)
***Image of Moffat cackling “THAT’ll keep the fans distracted!”***
20 November 2013 at 23:02 #21054Oooh. Forgot about Forum name.
The Privateer
Which is a bit like The Corsair.
Which is cool.
20 November 2013 at 21:15 #2103220 November 2013 at 13:26 #2100420 November 2013 at 13:24 #21003Loving the phrase ‘Retro-Continuity’. My view is that canon’s what you make it……..
The usual term is “Retcon”, meaning that, while the facts remain the same our understanding of them changes.
Prior to the reboot, the BBC always considered the audio-advetures as canon (but then did not oblige RTD to follow it) so it would probably be more accurate to say that Eight’s crew has been “Grandfathered in”.
20 November 2013 at 11:59 #20996Hmm. Unfish.
I like it.
20 November 2013 at 11:33 #2099420 November 2013 at 11:15 #20990The Fish Doctor???? (@dayoftheFishDr) FISH??!!!!
*grumblegrumble*pointed that out ages ago*grumble grumble*
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