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16 December 2018 at 00:40 #66670
For two languages to converge in any meaningful sense, surely their syntax and grammar would have to dovetail somehow – which is impossible.
English has its roots in as High Germanic, but the influence of French on it is such that it is impossible to miss and modern English would not exist as it does without a big ‘ole dash of old French, thanks to those pesky Normans. That it continued to evolve, hoovering up words from other languages and shedding genders is neither here not there: a High Germanic and a Romance language converged into modern English.
However – and this is exactly the kind of slippery issue that such process can throw up – convergent evolution is about convergence of idea, not of expression. So two entirely unrelated species (or only related so far back that it makes no odds) end up being strikingly similar in habit because they fill similar ecological niches. The point being that the propensity for storytelling need not have come from a single mutation in one individual, as my blue eyes do, but independently once the brain was complex enough. Two stylistically unrelated cave drawings could easily both say “Good hunting technique shown here” , yet not have a common ancestor.
Hence with “maze vs cave” is a question of ecosystem, not semiotics. Our home system my be comfortable – and comforting to us – but is rarely as objectively special as we like to think. Other people have things to say too.
Also – and this to @mudlark as well – be careful of seeking to “prove” things. Science does not use “proof” in the way that mathematics does, but more in the sense of “test”. The proof of the pudding(‘s quality) is in the eating. The exception that proves (the limit of) the rule. Proving grounds to see how well it works, not just if it does. Proof spirit (of how loud it goes kerblam to indicate alcohol content).
Trying to find proof in the more (to modern ears) familiar sense is a fool’s errand. Although, as the gentleman from Tralfamadore knew, one should always uphold the honour of fools.
15 December 2018 at 18:29 #66660I think it’s just linguistic borrowing for the sake of economy,
Yes, that’s one of the many mechanisms of convergence.
Put two groups of people together and their languages will converge, either through creolisation or one being dominant but borrowing heavily from the other. It is even true of accents (witness the way native Hertfordshire, Essex, Kent and Surrey accents have virtually disappeared thanks to 1m post-War Londoners being moved in, forming Estuary English).
Languages drift apart through isolation, not mixing. People don’t want to communicate, they need to. That is the driver.
14 December 2018 at 22:26 #66645I don’t care about the BBC and their budget
Unfortunately, the BBC doesn’t have this luxury.
PS “Brilliant” does not mean what you think it means. See “Dimensions in Time” for reference.
14 December 2018 at 09:52 #66632I‘ve now heard that the BBC says that there will be no Doctor Who series 12 until 2020! I don‘t know how they dare to even suggest this!
Budget. Check around the forum. This has been discussed and explained at length. Check especially BBC Approved Spoilers.
14 December 2018 at 02:01 #6662414 December 2018 at 01:59 #66623The idea that the interwoven threads in traditional stories have their origin in a prehistory common to all speakers of Indo-European languages is an enticing hypothesis. The problem, as you are clearly aware, is proving it.
Not really. It’s just convergent evolution with the admixture of complex language (the specific language is immaterial, it’s the capacity to pass on information that matters).
Whether that information is passed on as “respect the great sky fire” or “respect the great sky dandelion”, semiotically it is pretty much the same thing.
The specifics will likely be rooted in local circumstance (the old canard about the Inuits having 48 words for snow may be nonsense, but I’ll bet they have shit ton of adjectives that are rooted in snow and ice).
And language really wants to converge: it takes entire academies to hold the line for some of them. But even the French call a black girl une fille black, not une fille noir or nègre. David Attenborough once called Hom Sap “The Compulsive Communicator”.
And that is before the processes you describe above have got to work.
So:
The labyrinth and the minotaur of classical legend are to me firmly rooted in the Mediterranean and sun-baked Knossos, not the North of myth, legend and fairy tale which is evoked here.
What you describe her is a difference in ecological biogeography. Both north and Med started with personifying their gods and wondering how hard it might be to get to see them and came to a striking similar conclusion: a difficult path protected by beasties.
It’s not just traffic. It is inherent.
13 December 2018 at 22:46 #66618There is a difference between ending the suffering of an individual and a death sentence…
Not if you are trying to legitimise a death sentence by claiming that it is ending the suffering of an individual.
13 December 2018 at 15:45 #66607@kevinwho
Whereas in this last season I’ve sometimes felt that whole episodes aren’t showing me a life lesson, they’re telling me what to think.
Well, no. It is a distinction without a difference.
Distinction: addressing antagonist or address newbie travellers.
Difference: either of the above vs addressing the audience.
And remember, I’ve stated my concerns about the “Blue Peter segment” tone of some of the exposition.
And, as I have said elsewhere, I suspect some of these tonal intrusions are coming from above Chibnall (Broadchurch was hardly known of its preachiness, which is what got Chibbers into so much trouble with season 2: spelling out what he was doing wouldn’t have solved the fundamental flaw, but at least it would got people onto the right page).
13 December 2018 at 15:35 #66605more in character for Graham to kill him.
What on Earth in Graham’s character makes you think he has the potential to be a killer?
Seriously, if you are going to make statements like that, illustrate with examples.
13 December 2018 at 11:07 #66592I think <strike>more people than will admit feel the same</strike> the ratings are speaking for themselves <strike>but to many scared of this ridiculously stupified PC world</strike> and that confounds my angry entitled ravings
Fixed that for you.
ridiculously stupified PC world and scared of being called a bigit or woman hater for voicing <atrike>decent</strike> dissent. I can all ready see in my mind the message reply
Well, if sight of women or non-whites in positions of influence triggers you so much that it leads you to post such drivel, you really shouldn’t be surprised.
Trolling report:
Spelling: @cumquat would be proud.
Sliding into predictable “I’m such a victim that all the bad libs will get after me”: 9/10*. Your application for the Cumquat Academy has been passed to the relevant authorities.
* This would have been 10/10 you you failed to slip “SJW” in there.
13 December 2018 at 10:35 #66588Not all of us. I, for example, am a little bit rickroll.
13 December 2018 at 00:26 #66574And also:
13 December 2018 at 00:12 #66573Nice. There’s one more though:
13 December 2018 at 00:00 #6657212 December 2018 at 01:41 #6653011 December 2018 at 23:44 #6652311 December 2018 at 23:43 #66522See, to me she is absolutely The Doctor. While I was critical of the editing and dialogue in the early episodes, it also conspicuously tightened up as the season progressed (I’d be fascinated to see the production schedule). Bradley Walsh (who, personally, I was never sniffy about because I had seen his work in Law & Order UK) has been a revelation, whike Cole and Gil are hugely relatable.
Others have felt differently as you can see in the episode discussions.
But there are also a couple of brutal truths we all need to grasp.
Even in this place at least one member has passed away and many of us go back to the very beginning (I remember some Hartnell, but Troughton is “my” Doctor). We ain’t getting younger and the BBC absolutely has to cultivate a new audience for one of its most valuable assets. While I never, for one second, bought into the “too complex for the kidz” meme that was applied to Moffat, in the end, I’d be willing to bet that some of the clunkier exposition was imposed from higher up than Chibnall and that may well be a cost of doing business for the time being.
But it is Doctor Who, and by the 19th Doctor it should be just about finding its groove.
(BTW try to make sure you tag people properly – not tagging is a symptom of…not good stuff.)
11 December 2018 at 23:21 #66521Would you like a jelly baby?
11 December 2018 at 17:29 #66495@craig @ichabod @miapatrick @pedant @idiotsavon
Let’s play Finger The @cumquat
No. Wait. That came out way more obscene than intended.
Or did it?
11 December 2018 at 11:38 #66488Just to be clear, cumquat is not a sock puppet of me, but probably is a sock puppet of someone here.
11 December 2018 at 00:17 #66469Worth noting that The Mirror’s record is not good…
11 December 2018 at 00:16 #66468@nerys @mudlark @bluesqueakpip
I was much the same with The Master, which led to a really unworthy thought when Roger Delgado died. In my defence, I was 9 or 10.
If I were a gambling chap (I occasionally bet, but never gamble) I would slap my cash down on The Sontarans.
But part of me still wants it to be The Quarks.
10 December 2018 at 22:16 #66458@blenkinsopthebrave @bluesqueakpip
It’s The Zarbis….
10 December 2018 at 00:36 #66415“This is not real life” doesn’t really help your case.
I certain circumstances you are willing to reduce yourself to the level of the most depraved.
That’s fine – but at least be honest about it.
10 December 2018 at 00:22 #66412@bluesqueakpip @jimthefish @blenkinsopthebrave
Yes, this is clearly about cashflow. While Doctor Who is one of the BBC’s most valuable properties, it is also probably it most expensive returning show.
And the BBC is increasingly resource constrained, and will be until this shitshow of a government is gone.
This is what the American commentators and Youtube noise generators can’t seem to grasp. The BBC definitely does not want to cancel the show (and especially after its best year for years). But it doesn’t have the money to just chuck at it.
10 December 2018 at 00:16 #66411Clearly the compassionate thing to do is to put him out of his misery,
You basically just argued that the death sentence is better than a long prison sentence. You might want to check your moral compass there…
9 December 2018 at 19:28 #66394“Only in the foot.”
Have been chuckling since that.
8 December 2018 at 18:30 #66356Not at all. Am now admiring the skeleton.
8 December 2018 at 16:27 #66351I think the rumour was more two seasons and then both leave (along with the spurious rumour about delay until 2020).
8 December 2018 at 16:15 #663508 December 2018 at 16:12 #66349@kevinwho
Ha! Yes – entirely my bad not yours. That’ll teach me to wander off for a while before replying. Crosses wires.
So what @bluesqueakpip says.
As to what is minor or not I would say:
Moving furniture – extra;
Moving furniture with a couple of lines, probably just imparting info to pro/antagonist – minor character (take a bow pip);
Small role, but which moves the plot along- supporting player;
Everyone else signified by the order on the main credits.
8 December 2018 at 02:20 #663368 December 2018 at 02:18 #66335Fun fact: Talulah Riley, aka Miss Evangelista, was Elon Musk’s girlfriend for a while (I don’t think they married). They broke up twice.
The second time Musk announced her death.
She’s not dead, obv.
He does some very cool stuff, but fuck me he’s a dickhead.
That. Was. My. Point. You. Nicked. It.
Liberated.
8 December 2018 at 00:59 #66330There are some interesting points to debate, except in this case where I am clearly right and you are clearly wrong(1).
1. Name that episode.
Now, who’s going to explain synchronised swimming?
7 December 2018 at 16:48 #66266Still love that link.
I love the term ‘edgelord’. That’s you @magickirin. It’s code for ‘complete fuckwit who needs some sex’.
Also: Gay gypsy bar mitzvah for the disabled is one of the funniest things I have ever read.
7 December 2018 at 16:21 #66265@kevinwho
It’s not that it was uninteresting, but that a browse through the archive would see how heavily the ground has been covered.
You may find it useful browse the blogs from a couple of years back about Buffy. Even non-fans know about the silent episode, the bonkers dream episode, the musical episode and the Willow-in-leather episode (OK, that last one might just be me). But even fans will cede there there are a few quite forgettable episodes along way in what remains one of the most important TV shows of the past 20 years. It is massively influential on RTD’s reboot of Doctor Who.
It tends to be the episode that operate at a personal level – the frightened teen Mum in the London Blitz (rooted in true stories of orphaned blitz kids); The haunted artist doomed to die (as good and age-appropriate study of depression as you will ever see); the courtesan haunted by a ghostly visitor and clockwork monsters (still, for me, the finest single episode of Who ever, BG or AG, because of how it so clearly brought the Doctor’s state of existential loneliness into focus); Amy being confronted with an impossible – and in the end deceitful – choice.
And on the two cops you are simply wrong.
Billy Shipton was central to the plot of Blink – without him, specifically, it would have fallen apart.
The cop in Rosa was what Hannah Arendt called the Banality of Evil. Nothing interesting about him. He was just doing his job. If it had been another cop – or any other authority figure – the outcome would have been much the same. Nothing about him mattered that didn’t apply to pretty well every authority figure in Montgomery. He was a throughly banal racist, with a side-arm and a night stick.
The bus driver, on the other hand…
That said, Moffat is exceptionally gifted at economically fleshing out side characters (compare how we feel for Proper Dave, Other Dave and Miss Evangelista, compared to all of the side characters in 42). But that really is a rare gift and with most writers the heavy lifting is left to the actors.
BTW, @jimthefish on the subject of Buffy we have:
The one with superpowers;
The one who is handy in a scrap (with police skills rather than witch-fu);
The one who is awkward, but will always give his best;
The wise old fella with a strong moral compass.
Too many in the Tardis? I don’t think so.
7 December 2018 at 13:16 #66255Rather excellent article about the wrote of Ever Fallen in Love
One of the truly great pop choons. Any excuse:
7 December 2018 at 12:29 #66253@all
So I made another vid. Contains horrific crash footage (not really) and considers how hard it can be to stay on topic.
6 December 2018 at 22:18 #66244Bugger. Pete Shelley? Is nobody safe?
6 December 2018 at 22:16 #66243@craig – This face could do with a facelift…
Or maybe Face/ Off works better.
5 December 2018 at 18:13 #66216Somewhere waaaay upthread I posted an interview with her, and I think she was talking about this. She seems to be quite ambitious on the directorial/ creative side, which given how Hollywood tends to treat women who have the brass-bound audacity to approach 30, is probably not a bad thing.
Ah. Here.
5 December 2018 at 13:14 #66209@swankycriminal
None of it makes sense.
Ah, I see where you are going wrong.
Allow Jenna Coleman to explain:
5 December 2018 at 10:15 #66200@swankycriminal
I don’t think so – it is established (per Day of the Doctor) that an earlier regeneration cannot retain the memory of meeting a later regeneration.
5 December 2018 at 10:09 #661994 December 2018 at 16:08 #66167Dead Like Me (although it wasn’t a talking frog)?
I wonder if anyone moaned at Yaz’ “that’s shocking parenting” comment?
I don’t actually hunt it, but happily spray ’em in a drive-by if Youtube throws it at me, so don’t know (never forgetting to hit Thumbs Down). It wouldn’t surprise me. She is after all, an assertive woman, and an Asian woman at that, who probably only got her job in the Police as part of some PC SJW Liberal Agenda so shouldn’t be lecturing White Women.
4 December 2018 at 14:24 #66163I believe such shenanigans have now been outlawed by the sporting killjoys under the Unsporting Behaviour (or possibly Obstruction) law, along with such things as donkey kicks.
4 December 2018 at 12:45 #66161New to this site
You might want to try reading the site for a bit to get a sense of the company you are in.
That, or get used to people pointing at you and laughing.
4 December 2018 at 12:41 #66160No betrayal at all – there is nothing to indicate that The Doctor was insincere. But once her hands started to go all kaleidoscope, she knew the situation and explained with compassion. It was a sweet sorrow parting.
Talking animals crop up a lot in Studio Ghibli animations, and this story had a bit of a Ghibli feel to it, with an ending that was honest, rather than shoe-horned in sentimental. Spirited Away? Princess Mononoke?
3 December 2018 at 16:14 #66136Also, as a couple of people elsewher have pointed out, The Doctor totally seduced a universe that was personifying as female.
That would make Bowel Streak’s gonads explode if he had any…
Also (also) “We could tell if we were vampires, right?” Possibly the line of the series not utter by actual heroes.
3 December 2018 at 13:55 #66130 -
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