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Ha ha! @purofilion Yes, my theories that the whole point is that The Doctor needs to “save someone” from Gallifrey.

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@purofilion He he!  You were probably the first to know!  🙂   I feel like a kid counting down to Christmas.  I am so excited!  🙂

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And it’s 2:38 in the morning here, so sorry this is vague and childish, buuutttt…Moffat rocks.  End of story.  Good night.  🙂

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Wait, wait, wait? @jimthefish. You SAW WHAT EPISODE?   HOW???  Jealous.  I am so jealous right now.

 

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The Pompeii parallel is simple. The face is to remind him to save someone, “not the whole town just someone.” He saves someone from Gallifrey.  He goes back and saves someone.

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Like I said all, not River’s doctor, not a known screwdriver, certainly not the 11th doctor’s sonic.  So far my theories on River, Pompeii are all being hinted at being correct.  So my theories on Clara are more than likely also going to come to pass.  I’m so excited for this season!  🙂

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Okay, fair to say my thories above are holding water, with the recent news that ********* will be returning. 🙂   Skweee.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 7 months ago by  Craig. Reason: Removed spoiler

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BBC disappearing TARDIS mug, tall and TARDIS blue, is dishwasher safe.  Makes me smile every morning.   Shipping is pricey “across the pond” but to all ya locals it’s inexpensive.  Good way to cheer up a Whovian’s morning rituals.

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@todeledo and @purofilion thank you!  I enjoy as many sources of new music as possible, especially Doctor Who themed music, trippy dance music, folk music and classical.

@missy yes, Murray Gold blows my mind too.  He is a true genius.

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@Purofilion Good thing I read the above without my tea this time.  You are hysterical!  I seriously had to go outside as to not wake everyone up with my laughing.

I’ve worked out the whole River Song timeline, well, at least if my theories are correct. She gave it away when she said she was mentally linked with Clara.

I will have to go check out @bluesqueakpip ‘s blogs, they sound interesting.  I’m starting to see a clear pathway towards River coming back.

 

 

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@purofilion The misspelling worked, he is a music God.  I am not a musician, but I am thoroughly obsessed with his music.  I can’t play chopsticks, but I’m very knowledgeable about classical music and also a lot of modern artists.  I’m fussy and eclectic, and obsessed with Murray Gold.  When I work in the lab I play Gold or Chopin, depending on my mood.  His music is also great for choreography.

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@purofilion I was laughing so hard reading the above post I accidentally spit my tea.  Thank you for that.  🙂    Brisbane in Australia?  Cool.

River has some explaining to do.  We have not seen the last of the child of the TARDIS.

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@jimthefish Thank you, I appreciate you fixing my slip.  I am new here and thought everyone on this thread had seen it.  I would hate to spoil anything.  Good to know.  I will revise and just chime in that I think this is an intense episode and played my emotions like a fiddle.

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@todeledo Where did you find these great compositions?  Wow, this site has a DW music thread too?  Day made. Glad I checked recent activity.  I will have to peruse this thread.  Must admit I am obsessed with Murray Gold and DW music.

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This is classic Who at it’s best for me.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 9 months ago by  JimTheFish. Reason: Possible spoilers

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@jphamlore Agree about the Weeping Angels, but I had never thought the Dream Crabs might also come from the same origin. That will give me something to chew on.  Your theory is very interesting.  I have always been suspicious that the Time Lords created humans, or that Time Lords were just engineered humans from a lost intellectual civilization like Atlantis.

 

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@purofilion Yes! The music, the humor, the speech, the intensity of it all; it was truly epic.  Also love that episode.  I actually prefer less monsters and more storytelling, so this is in my top twenty episodes of DW.

@bluesqueakpip Good point.  More than one teacher makes sense. I’m trying to picture how the TARDIS taught River?  By lighting up the right buttons like a kid’s teacher piano, or is it done on some telepathic level since River is also a child of the TARDIS?  The TARDIS told her that she is her child.  How?  How did the TARDIS tell her?  Sometimes I wonder just how long River was gone in ‘Let’s Kill Hitler’ in the TARDIS.  Hmmm.

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I seriously can’t wait for season 9! Love the Coldplay/DW mash-up.  Nice.  🙂 

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@purofilion Excellent point.  It would be so “timey whimey” for Tasha to be River, who inspired the faction that blew up the TARDIS. Makes sense since River knew the Doctor was supposed to die at Tranzalore.  The whole papal mainframe could have been created to protect the Doctor from his scheduled death.  So very River.

It was in the ‘Pandorica Opens’ where River claims the Doctor taught her to fly the TARDiS.  Once again, my paste option is faulty on this forum or I would paste it here.  It’s a very inconvenient fault with my interface on this site. :-\

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@purofilion Good point, the Doctor lies, and like River has pointed out, she also has to lie.  In ‘Let’s Kill Hitler’ she says the TARDiS taught her, and than turns around to the Doctor and claims in another episode that he taught her how to fly the TARDiS.   The lady lies a lot, and often.  Tasha Lem can fly the TARDiS but it does make the whooshing sound, which River knows how to turn off.  Also, if Tasha is just a projection of herself or flesh Avatar, then she was not actually killed by the Dalek.

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@jimthefish Will remedy that as soon as I have a large enough window to watch a whole movie.  Most of my sci-fi I get through books, so I tend to be behind on movie witching.  Great screen name BTW.   Have you built that dam yet? 😉

Right now I am in the Who zone and looking forward to a possible season nine trailer this week.

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Sorry, cut and paste doesn’t work for me on this site…not sure why?  I meant the above to be @crieshavok

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@crieshavoc  Ender’s Game and it’s entire series was my first love.  Completely agree with the similarities, especially to the 9th Doctor, in which I see Rose as his Valentine, the Master his Peter.  Even can see the TARDiS as Jane.

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@bluesqueakpip Yes, there was not a new haircut or a new suit, he was wearing a tux.

@lisa loving the Tom Baker theory

 

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@purofilion What do you think?

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Any ideas?

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After watching this two-part episode again I am positive River was merely uploaded and CAL is Clara.  I don’t think River’s Doctor is Smith alone, I truly believe it’s a later Doctor, possibly the current Doctor.  I believe Tasha Lem is River reaching out from the Library through another mainframe.  Tasha does mean birthday and Lem means owned by God or Great One.  I also think it’s interesting that the new Doctor has styled his TARDiS as a library.

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Ellen Ripley? Have never seen the movies, so I can’t comment on the validity of that.

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I have yet to try the SF test, but I did find a fun site that gives a Myers-Briggs type for each Doctor.  I can’t seem to cut and paste on this site or I would paste the link.  This is the only site my paste button doesn’t work on?  This forum demands I use the Ctrl button to paste, but it’s a tablet without that option.  I will have to type it out old school style, here goes: mbtifiction.com/current-wips/    Hope I got it right.  A lot of fun character analysis blogs on this site.  Enjoy.

I love Moffet, and am a huge fan, but I honestly enjoy most of the writers of the Whoverse.  Richard Curtis wrote one of my all-time favorite Who episode’s, and the power of Doomsday can’t be denied. I also enjoyed all of the Doctors, I have my favorites, sure, but I sincerely enjoyed all of the Doctor’s regenerations.  I also liked all of the companions.  I have never found myself annoyed or dissatisfied with any of the writers, companions or Doctors. Because of this, my posts will be weak in the ranting sections I suppose, but I can get very wrapped up in praising my favorite Doctors, companions and writers.  Best to admit upfront I DO think Moffet is a genius, and I am often partial to the 4th, 11th and 12th Doctors.  Also noticed some lack of love for Rory, River and Amy in a few posts by some inactive members, but I shamelessly love those characters.   So now everyone here knows my prejudices.  🙂

So far, this site has by far the most in-depth and interesting posts about Doctor Who.  I have been slowly reading old threads.

 

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@purofilion Good to know, I was concerned.  Some of my ideas center around Smith not being River’s Doctor, considering my theories in the above comment #40818.  Smith’s Doctor did say he was going to the Singing Towers with her that night, but like in the above comment, he was not sporting a new haircut or new suit.  The 11th did think it was an important trip, but it could have been important for another reason and became their special spot.  In the Library she didn’t say it was her first time at the Singing Towers.

Thank you, I feel better now about throwing out my theories.  🙂   I think SitL is an incredibly important episode on so many levels, and in my view we have yet to see half of it seen through. I am leaving for the weekend camping, but I will write a few of my crazy theories when I get back.

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@purofilion  Thank you!  So Ichabod is already a writer?  Well, that is great news, I liked his style and ideas.

Totally agree that violence and sex can be a powerful tool in the story.  The problem with most modern shows and movies is that it’s completely over used, to the point where I find it boring.  It lost impact for me a long time ago.  It’s like someone trying to surprise you the same way all day long.  The first time you’re surprised you may jump, or give a desired reaction, so the person surprises you tries again later for the same outcome and is met with a blank stare instead.  After several tries to surprise you the same way all day most of us would be annoyed.

It’s sad I watch a scene with horrid violence and cliff hangers and I’m so over it I will be thinking, “yeah, yeah, yeah” wind it up.  It’s lost it’s power through gross over use for me.  But I completely agree with you that it is a great tool when executed with restraint by masters like Shakespeare.

Firefly!  Love that show.  A Whovian and a Browncoat who loves to philosophize?  Wish I knew people in my town like the people on this forum.

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@lula Also loved this episode.  I think it was a very poignant and moving episode and in my top ten.

Critics are often annoying; they are often too caught up in looking intellectual or cool, plus they forget their opinion is just that – an opinion, not truth.

I once read a critic slaming ‘Day of the Doctor’ while praising ’42’ and ‘Mummy on the Orient Express’ as classic cliff hanging Who?  I couldn’t agree less.  After that I decided Doctor Who is amazing because there is something for everyone and a Doctor for everyone.  I don’t believe in a best episode or best Doctor.

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@ichabod You are a very good writer.  I have great ideas, can hold a million facts in my head and am good at ferreting out a truth or solving a mystery, but I am a terrible writer.  Maybe that’s why my degrees are in science and choreography, two disciplines where I didn’t need to be a great writer. Despite my own failings as a writer, I recognize good writing, and you should be a writer.  Just wanted to throw that out there.  Maybe write a Doctor Who script for fun?  Just saying.

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@inchabod  You are right, Danny/Cyberman shot her, but it almost looked as if the Doctor had already pushed the button on that channel changer, but the reaction on the Doctor’s face would suggest Danny shot her.  It would be hard to tell since the controller doesn’t have a beam of light like a Cyberman’s gun.  If not, than it wouldn’t be too crazy if she was just uploaded to her “Heaven” after being shot.  Also, the Zygon\Osgood idea really works for me if the channel changer isn’t the issue.

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@ardaraith @bluesqueakpip I think the weight of the statement “only one time that I could” and how much grievance River is clearly going through reminding him, is due to his name being the password, or key, to bringing back the Time Lords in TtotD. He was supposed to die in the Time War, the Time War that would kill millions and turn the town of Christmas into the fiery world of Tranzalore, graveyard of the Doctor.  He didn’t die or bring back the Time War, due to Clara, who River was there to encourage to jump into his time stream.  River would know about the Time War, since that was what she was trained to do “stop the endless, bitter war.”

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Tasha Lem could very well be River, actually, I am almost positive that she is. The “rocking the new body” reference does not change that for me.  River and the Doctor meet out of order, as we know.   If it is a regeneration of River, then I would assume it took place after the little girl in spacesuit regeneration.  We never see her turn into Mels.  Honestly, it makes sense.  Mels grew up with Rory and Amy, so when did she train to kill the doctor?  Clearly by the time we see her in ‘Let’s Kill Hitler” she has been extensively trained for years.  When did this training take place?  My guess is before her time with Amy and Rory.

If it’s River acting through the computer of the Library this could also make sense since River explained to Amy, she lies, has to lie, just like the Doctor.  She knows how to play it off, just remember when she first saw the Doctor in SitL she assumes they are playing the game of not knowing each other.  She plays it well until she realizes the Doctor truly doesn’t know her.

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@bluesqueakpip @thepapalmainframe @janetteb I would love to see or read a spin off of Amy and Rory in the 1930s.  What a great idea.

Rory was always a nurse, except in his dream during ‘Amy’s Choice’ where he fancies himself a Doctor….with really bad hair.

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@ichabod Thank you, this seems like a great community.

Extremely well-put, I couldn’t agree more.  I have often wondered if the constraints of being labeled a “family show” or “children’s show” was the very thing that made it more mature than most entertainment these days.   Funny how that worked.  🙂

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Sorry, I meant to write @bluesqueakpip

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I thnk that Osgood and Missy surviving is simply due to the device used to kill them both.  I think it was a teleportation device of some kind, not a gun.

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@purofilion Thank you!  This was very useful and helpful info.  🙂

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@Bluesqeakpip It makes sense that she is putting Cal to bed.  We clearly see it’s Cal, and River made the choice to share space in her mind with Cal, so naturally, just like Cal, she is part of the computer now; a controller and storage, so far more than just an uploaded version of her as Donna and the 4,000 people saved were.  Also, not only was the Doctor not sporting a new hair cut before they we to see the singing towers, he was wearing a tux not a suit.  Not the same time. I think we were led to believe it was, but the sonic River had in SITL/FotD was not the 11th Doctor’s sonic.  It is some future version.  I think the new Doctor, the 12th (or 13th, whichever you ascribe to) is River’s Doctor.   Maybe he goes back to his old style before he takes her to the towers?  I have a bunch of crazy theories surrounding SitL/FotD, but some seem so good I am afraid they really are terrible spoilers.  How much do people really want to know, and when is it truly spoiling a moment better suited to letting the experts, like Moffat, portray it with all the magic of theater?  Wouldn’t reading it be kind of anti-climatic?  I’m just wondering because I almost feel bad writing anymore than I already have.  Do you wrestle with that?

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I would like to start the audio series.  Any suggestions on where to start?  The 8th Doctor was very good in what little I have seen him in, and I would to hear more about his travels.

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@janetteb Couldn’t agree more about Torchwood. I was so excited about a spinoff series, especially with Captain Jack, and then I watched it.  The storylines are incredibly weak and predictable. A lot of “adult” movies and TV shows digress into violence and sex, which is so incredibly boring.  One of the best parts about Doctor Who is that it uses great character development and fascinating story arcs instead of predictable long winded violence sequences and sex.

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@juniperfish, Well said, and I couldn’t agree more.  This is one of my all-time favorite episodes and it is masterfully done.  I’m sure it has been a tool in helping understand depression and a comfort to those with depression.

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This is a fun episode, but I am always shocked to see it among the top five episodes of all time.  Why do so many people connect to this episode?  I like it, but it would be luck to make it to my top twenty.  I am missing something?

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By far my favorite episode to date.  This is really a perfect blend of excitement, character development, humor and intrigue.  It was entertaining for all ages and well-paced.

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‘Listen’ and ‘Robot’s of Sherwood’ were my favorites of season 9.  ‘Orient Express’ and ‘Flatline’ seem to be more popular, but they didn’t really grab me.   I thought ‘Deep Breath’and ‘Death in Heaven’ were also very intriguing and exciting. I have really enjoyed reading all the comments, questions and theories on this thread.  I’m new to this forum, so I have yet to figure out how to find the discussions on creative theories on overall story arc’s and character development.  Does one find them through the episode threads, or do they live somewhere else?

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