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Well that was proper scary, that was. I really shouldn’t watch DW after midnight, but I can’t resist when I know it’s there!

(And congrats to @blenkinsopthebrave on the Sue-Tech spot 🙂  )

Was getting a bit of a Weeping Angels vibe with the shadow-thing in the Time Window, but it had already infiltrated into the TARDIS upstairs. Just saying tho – the CCTV camera was apparently roughly 66 meters away from the church… in other words, about 73 yards! Now when did the TARDIS pick up its stowaway? Best guess would be after Wild Blue Yonder, maybe at the Ruby Road Church.

Is the hooded figure definitely female? I was thinking that maybe the Doctor nipped back to deposit Ruby himself and then mind wiped himself…. but that pointing hand is definitely white so probably not. Is Ruby possibly the Doctor’s great grand daughter? (Susan was stuck on earth, with a human BF… so that would explain Ruby being seen as human. They are making a big thing about Susan – or is RTD trolling us?!)

I do think think Ruby must be the key to this, there’s something very odd about her! Abandoned as a baby, kidnapped by goblins, rescued from goblins, bifurcated in 73 yards to lead a double life, and no trace of her DNA in any database. So next best guess is that Ruby abandons herself. But why? (Also RTD has said he’s never going to share what Old Witchy Ruby says to people to scare them off – but that doesn’t mean he won’t SHOW us… (Personally, I think she probably just said “Run!” 😉 ))

Mrs Flood – an evil plant, or just temporarily possessed?

Susan Triad – has anyone at UNIT properly checked out the software she’s going to release everywhere in just a few minutes?! And did anyone actually investigate her backstory, not just her DNA – she must be on Wikipedia at least!

Her (or rather Sutekh)’s remark at the end – “did you really think I might be family….?!!!“.  Ooh, you can feel the Doctor’s hearts break.

Also – Kate says something about the caterpillar/butterfly not knowing it’s a chrysalis – does this relate back to Ruby transforming into something weird after stepping on a butterfly?

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And as far as Dot And Bubble goes… is there really any other earworm to choose? 😀 😀 😀

(I did think about the Brian Hyland 60’s version (but that sounds a bit creepy to contemporary ears!))

 

 

 

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Been slacking a bit on this thread…

My suggestion for 73 yards:

Nearly went with the Bette Midler hit version, but I just have a soft spot for this one by the late, great Nanci Griffith

 

 

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@thane16 Great spot about TWO TARDISes… or many, many more of them given RTD’s comment in an interview that ALL the previous incarnations of the Doctor have reincarnated with the bigeneration. Are we going to have a MEGA multi doctor story with ALL known previous incarnations?!! (RTD: OK we’ve had 2 Doctor stories, 3 Doctor stories, 5 Doctor stories… hold my beer!!)

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@thane16 @Mudlark

Mrs Flood – agreed. When she first saw the TARDIS she didn’t know what it was. But she did at the end. So at some point (that we haven’t seen) in The Church on Ruby Road she’s had a Doctor/Time Lord encounter/TARDIS trip!  Maybe when she dropped off her baby Ruby at the Church on Xmas Eve…??! So is Ruby not from this time period? Is she actually a very young (or regenerated, or reborn) River…?! (Snow/River/tears…?)

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@mudlark – a MAP??? You’re amazing! Can you share??

We’re assuming that the hooded figure is Ruby’s mum. We’re also assuming there’s only one hooded figure… just thinking about the pointy one when the Doctor remembers that night.

There were Goblins there that night. Who had apparently learned how to time travel. Or did someone give them a hand?

 

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@ps1l0v3y0u Mwuhuhuh! Brilliant 😀

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@whohar (and @juniperfish)

Great summing up of questions, and possible answers.

So how much is RTD teasing us, how ultra meta is this going to go, and how much is relevant?

I agree with @mudlark that it all goes back to invoking the salt superstition in Wild Blue Yonder... or actually to the beginning of that episode with Susan Twist’s first appearance.  But yes, an altered universe definitely seems likely. Lots of wrong steps taken 😉

One more question to add –

Who is the Doctor? (That’s one I hope won’t be answered, as I like that RTD has run with Chibs’ Timeless Child/foundling concept. A mysterious Dr is a good thing… IMHO!).

Excited for tonight, and already feeling deep frustration that I’m going to have to timeshift for a WHOLE WEEK for the finale  (not to mention keep off the interwebs as well!).

I expect a lot of build up tonight and then an end of episode pull down the curtain for a dramatic Toymaker/Maestro/Sutek/Great Intelligence/Rani /Susan-gone-wrong* ‘OH FUCK!!!’ reveal at the end.

And since the Doctor said the one place he can’t take Ruby is the night of her being abandoned, it’s a no brainer we’ll be going there!

And will the (grown up) Space Babies be back?

 

*Or someone/thing completely different?!

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Feathers McGraw rides again!!! Can’t wait 😀

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Quick thoughts – I really enjoyed that – fluffy and silly, but really well done. And lots of fun.

Loved the Doctor and Rogue’s rivalry with gadgets and their spaceships. The Doctor waiting confidently outside as Rogue goes into his “shed”! (I noticed the console on Rogue’s ship also had a hexagonal design – coincidence?).

I like the TARDIS’s new skills – psychic earrings which can transmit instant dancing skills to the wearer (I REALLY need a pair of those) and also, “battle mode”.

As I’ve said before, I really like how the stories this season have mostly avoided “entire universe/time and space in peril” and concentrated on the more localised threat to the Doctor, companion or a small group of people (notwithstanding this week’s “they’ll cosplay the entire planet to death” and Boom‘s reveal of how the Doctor being blown up would threaten the planet). I fully expect that to change next week, but it’s been a refreshing change.

I see Susan Twist makes an appearance as a portrait “with eyes that seem to follow you” and did Rogue say something about the paperwork having increased since he got a new boss?? (Like the Meep). Also dice make an appearance, and a Dungeons & Dragons reference – shades of the Toymaker’s games?

@thane16 – nice catch.

@blenkinsopthebrave

it has been blindingly obvious  that the show has always pushed the boundaries of what “responsible adults” assumed was right and proper for anybody to watch. My parents thought the Hartnell shows were too “dark” for my impressionable nipper brain, for example.

Absolutely agree! (And entertainingly regularly annoyed self appointed public morality protector Mary Whitehouse across Pertwee and Baker’s times, who repeatedly called for its cancellation)

@cookgroom – not sure that’s specific to this season, but yes, regular transformations of seeming goodies into baddies and vice versa.

Interestingly, most of the reviews I’ve seen so far have been extremely positive, particularly for its unequivocal “queering” of the Doctor. (Not delved into the nether regions of Twitter tho, or BTL comments). But this old school DW veteran is very happy.

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@blenkinsopthebrave

The cast list for the final two-parter lists Susan Twist playing a character called Susan Triad. Is not S. Triad an anagram of Tardis?

Oh my! That’s a good spot!

I like the idea about Susan T being a CEO of some dark corporation (or one of the pantheon of gods let into our universe by the Doctor invoking the salt superstition in Wild Blue Yonder)  – as @janetteb says, that fits with RTD’s previous. (Doesn’t rule her out as Susan gone to the dark side though, traumatised by being abandoned by Hartnell Dr in a 22nd century warzone!)

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@janetteb @blenkinsopthebrave @mudlark (and everyone) –

I think the hugging/not hugging in this is indicative of how isolated these kids are – socially and physically. It’s also a wee throwback to Capaldi’s Doc who hated hugging, and Ncuti’s fist appearance in the bigeneration where he hugs his previous self (“I’ve got you”). They’ve been abandoned by their parents who surround them with material things but no life skills at all. These kids are even isolated from each other – I hate to think what their parties are like – I can’t imaging that it involves them actually being together in the same room.

In lots of ways Ricky S is a mirror of the Doctor – it’s striking he uses the same words “I promise I’ll save you” and leads her by the hand – very Doctorish. But with Ricky, Lindy is prepared to follow… until she betrays him in the most callous possible way (shades of Winston in 1984?).

The other thing that struck me is that Finetime is literally a bubble world – it’s enclosed in a big bubble – just as Gallifrey is! In fact this society isn’t unlike Time Lord society – it’s isolated, segregated from the plebs/Shobogans self-aggrandised and self-entitled. Tho I think the more direct reference for RTD is probably UK’s “ruling class” system – boarding school, Eton (“eaten”, LOL), groomed to expect to lead, expectation that the elders will sort out any problems and completely lacking in empathy and socialisation.

Orange  – probably as Mudlark says, chosen to stand out in Lindy’s bubble, but it does feature regularly in their wardrobe throughout the series.

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Sad news tonight with the news of the passing of William Russell aka Ian Chesterton at the impressive age of 99.

It was lovely that he got to cameo in the Power of the Doctor as part of the Companions Support Group!

https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2024/jun/04/william-russell-obituary

Popping in here to share, and raise a glass to him.

Cheers Ian/William. RIP

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The other thing I’m liking about this season is not every episode is about the end of civilisation/the known universe etc. The threat in this one wasn’t even to the Doctor, it’s about his intervention in someone else’s story. Sometimes he can save them, sometimes he can’t (especially when they’re a bunch of entitled, selfish proto-fascists!). That’s very traditional old school Who. Tho I presume there’s going to be an almighty crisis/big bang/massive FX budget 😉 in the finale, with a pantheon of gods – Toymaker, Maestro, The One Who Waits – lurking just beyond our peripheral vision.

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@ubik

Is Ruby a Space Baby?

That’s not any more bonkers than any other theory so far!

Abandoned/lost children of various ages are piling up all through this season 😉

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Final thoughts (for now) – So far we’ve had 2 seemingly completely unrelated scenes at the start of episodes – the Isaac Newton one (Wild Blue Yonder) and the butterfly effect in Space Babies.

Are these clues to wider arcs? As @juniperfish says – they both suggest alternate timelines, and presumably (or maybe not) we need to get out of the mavity universe (where the supernatural leaks in?) and back to the gravity one. The Isaac Newton scene was also Susan Twist’s first appearance. Sorry @janetteb, not convinced she’s going to be Susan (I think that’s just RTD trolling us, otherwise it’s all going to get INCREDIBLY meta!) but the repeated face is definitely a thing. So far she’s been a person three times (and only Ruby met her in 73 Yards), and the rest of the time (Space Babies, Boom and Dot & Bubble) she’s been on a screen. But they are both starting to notice now.

@cathannabel – great to see you back 🙂

If nothing else the new series has reinvigorated this forum and kickstarted a whole new level of bonkerising 🙂

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Other thoughts…

The Doctor’s tears
@bunface thanks for the quote, that does make sense.
@juniperfish @miapatrick – the tears are noticeable, even when the rest of his face is still. Also reminded me of Bill’s puddle-person who can come back in a teardrop.

Also @juniperfish – I’m liking your 3 witches (or 3 fates?) theory 😉
I do also like the idea (@Mudlark ?) that old Ruby is the one who leaves baby Ruby at the church. Does the Doctor know this – is that why he is so insistent that that is the one place Ruby cannot go to? (or is he just remembering what happened when he took Rose back in Father’s Day).

The other reason I like this theory is that there’s a precedent in DW, or at least a callback – with the seventh Doctor in Fenric when Ace rescues a woman and child who turns out to be her grandmother and her mum (whom she hated) as a baby (with all of them carrying Fenric’s genes).

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Late to the fray and still catching up on last week’s threads, having had a lot of RL in the way!

First of all, just to say I really liked this one as well. And interesting that again, the real baddies are the humans. I kept waiting for Lindy to see the light, and then wham! Not one, but two sucker punches at the end that showed that she was beyond saving.

I thought the racism was well done – very carefully seeded through the whole episode with a whole series of micro-aggressions. Which is exactly how racism (and other isms work) – lots of little comments that on their own could be defended as harmless/in your imagination but not if you’re consistently on the receiving end. And intersectional – there’s the class thing as well. I really liked how it was played in the final scene, and especially that all Ruby could do was a sympathetic touch on the arm. No grandstanding speeches in the Doctor’s defence. As others have commented above, she must have seen it a million times with her mum.

@miapatrick – I saw that too, about it being Ncuti’s very first scene. Just WOW!

(Interesting that a number of comments in t’other place (tho there’s a lot of positive reaction too) say that they don’t have a problem with Ncuti being black but they don’t like the scripts/don’t think he’s playing it right/doesn’t feel like the Doctor for them etc etc – micro-aggressions in action).

Overall it felt fresh – not so much having a go at social media per se, but at the literal bubble where you have a stagnating society of entitled people who are surrounded by an echo chamber of people exactly like themselves, never being challenged about their world views. Lindy’s comments in response to her friends disappearing including (after having seen them being eaten!) “I’ll need to find more friends!” Again seeded through the episode leading up to her huge betrayal of the person who was supposed to be her hero and was saving her.

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@juniperfish

It’s interesting, isn’t it, that those great foes in The Time War, the Daleks and the Time Lords, now turn out to be species which have both have been genetically engineered by Mengele-type immoral scientists (Davros and Tecteun respectively).

Absolutely! (And both with aspirations to rule/control the universe).

I’m just hoping RTD2’s not planning on finding the Dr’s original parents any time soon. The great thing about The Timeless Child concept is that it brings back the mystery to the Doctor’s origins, as well as separating them a bit from the psychopathic TimeLords.  Is there another race out there (possibly beyond the universe) who can regenerate… or was the Doctor originally abandoned for being a weird anomaly, potentially the only one of his kind?

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@whohar

how did he get injured?

That struck me as well. I like the idea that the “enemy” doesn’t exist – metaphorical shadows and mud. But yes, in that case, who/what causes the casualties? Are the ambulances even more sinister than they look? Are there ambulance equivalent “enemy” tanks that we haven’t seen?  Villengard (or whoever is buying their weapons) AI remotely controlling explosive devices?

And yes, reckless – first thing you should be thinking if your companion stands on a mine is – are there any more?! And it looks very disconcertingly like a roomba (those little robot vacuum cleaners!) 😉

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Back to Boom – interesting image from the first scene, which is at the head of this page – a blinded (and blindfolded) soldier stumbling around with a big gun. Very metaphorical. It also reminds me of something but I can’t think what yet… It does put me in mind of the art from 1980s 2000 AD – particularly Ezquerra, Brian Bolland. Especially the gun, but there’s also something about the blindfold.

One thing that’s come a lot in the discussions is Moff being criticised for repeating himself. For me it’s more that he’s writing the same universe, so why wouldn’t the clerical soldiers, the Villengard weapons factories etc come up again? Likewise gizmos that preserve at least an impression of a person after death are a thing in his universe. (And maybe a way to introduce a more compforting idea of death for younger viewers).

Last thought for now – Splice. That’s an extremely odd name!

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Haha @juniperfish

Great to back to proper bonkerising again!

How about Mrs Flood? Where does she fit in? I get the feeling we’re being distracted from her. (Flood, unfrozen snow, Pond, River… )

@blenkinsopthebrave

But why Larkin?

Well it COULD just be the poem, but the Doctor does make reference to the sad little man who wrote it… Course he was also famous for his comment on parenting – “they f*ck you up your mum and dad…” which could tie in with Juniperfish’s theory about the Doctor and the Master! (And one more thought on that – Checkhov’s tooth was picked up by a very nail-polished hand – Maestro?)

Nothing is accidental or incidental when it comes to both RTD2 and Moffat.

Indeedy 😀 (Especially when you see how much they’ve been obfuscating about Moff’s return!)  I love this little clip which came out this week:

And this too – talking about how to write DW. These two are a real double act. I suspect they share ideas a lot more than they let on. Apparently Moffat was one of the first people RTD told about going back:

There was a bit in an interview with SM where he mentions that he’s had an eye on Season 2/15/41 “for reasons that will become clear in due course”! River? Or another returning Moff character?

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@whohar

Lots of mad theories already, and that’s great. On the Devil’s Chord thread I postulated that the whole season might be based in a Mind Robber-like Land of Fiction; this would help explain some of the anachronisms.

Who-oof! That’s a thought and a half!

@cookgroom Good call on the “next of kin” thing about Ruby. Maybe it was unable to find her n.o.k. because they will (should) all be dead by now. But yes, clearly (especially as Susan Twist s involved!) it could be something else about her that is deeply hidden (like the music last week). Wonder if The Doctor is on its database….!

Bit more thought about An Arundel Tomb – beautiful poem, which is not quite as unambiguous/straightforward about love everlasting as it might appear on first reading, or when lines are taken out of context. It’s also about the passage of time and decay and how things can possibly be misinterpreted when viewed by a different culture and a different time.  And there’s also this bit:

…Rigidly they

Persisted, linked, through lengths and breadths
Of time. Snow fell, undated…

Full thing here, if anyone wants to check it out.

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Dunno if this will link properly, but this is AWESOME!

Ncuti on the correct pronunciation of his name… which apparently his mum didn’t tell him he was 26!!

😀 😀 😀

https://x.com/i/status/1791184337339089156

 

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@thane16

Puro!!!!

Great to see you

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@juniperfish – Thanks for all the links, and insights (as always). The Owl and The Pussycat – a fave of mine too – and no, I didn’t realise its subtext either.  Re The Skye Boat Song – that’s also a call back to the Troughton era (the Yeti in London (recently rediscovered and revitalised)) – Troughton plays it on his flute. So there’s also a wee reference there to Jamie (be still my 10 year old’s  heart!) ) as its reference to Bonnie Prince Charlie is contemporary with him.

Useful link here about all(?) the Easter eggs in Boom – https://mashable.com/article/doctor-who-boom-easter-eggs

@mudlark not quite top tier Moffat but second tier Moffat Who is still much above everyone else! And for me, it’s close. Everything is in there, but you have to pay attention to pick up on it all.

@craig (@blenkinsopthebrave and everyone!) – yes Susan Twist is a real actress (some TV stuff, film and lots of theatre). Interestingly she also appears in Wild Blue Yonder – as Isaac Newton’s housekeeper. So maybe that scene isn’t as random as we’ve been led to believe. And maybe there’s a reason the Isaac is Black, as opposed to colour blind casting to annoy the trolls! Or a lack of available actors as RTD is apparently saying! It does seem that something is interfering with the timelines.

One more thought about the show and anti-war themes – again, waaay back, with Troughton – in The War Games the Time Lords (first appearance) are plucking soldiers out of their timelines to play at war. For their own amusement if I remember correctly (it’s been a while!). Moffat’s  calling out about big arms business actually creating war for profit really resonates with me.  With Boom suggesting not just the landmine but also booming business for Villengard. I’ve been thinking very much the same recently.

Second watch through and I still love it!

It also couldn’t have been earlier in the run – you couldn’t start off a new series and a new platform with this, has to be worked up to. Lull viewers into a false sense of campy fun (which is also very much DW)!

Btw – does anyone know what’s happened to @bluesqueakpip? Is she still around? I miss her insightful input.

Thoughts and prayers everyone!! 😉

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Sorry @craig Ending made sense for me – virus, antivirus. AI. AI fights back. Very Moff. Love (parental) saves the day. Clerical soldiers (again!), war as capitalism. Reminded me a bit of Oxygen (which I also loved). And yes (as Moffat’s said in interviews) ripped off/inspired by Genesis of the Daleks.

Disneyfication of DW? Capitulation to US audiences? So far we’ve had a go at pro lifers, plight of refugees, organised religion, capitalism (ambulances that kill you if you’re not economically viable (WTF!!)), war. Bring it on!

Yes there’s plot holes, stretching of disbelief… that smart mine really isn’t so smart… but I LOVED this one!

More later (when it’s not so late and I’m more sober!!). Look forward to hearing everyone’s views.

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WOW!

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@janetteb I’d like to think so!

So… what’s my theme tune for this week? I’m really excited about seeing what the Moff comes up with in tonight’s episode (and no, there’s no way I’m waiting for the TV broadcast tomorrow!). So in honour of Boom, and in keeping with last week’s vintage theme, here’s the magnificent John Lee Hooker with Boom Boom (great clip from The Blues Brothers movie).

Well it was either that or Lulu’s Boom Bang a Bang, but I couldn’t do that to you, even in Eurovision week 😀

 

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@miapatrick I thought he said “run” but then also went to hide – which is what Ruby commented on. “Run” is definitely the Dr’s thing, as you said. Need to watch again, as I may (very well) be wrong..

@ps1l0v3y0u I wasn’t having a go at you, your comment just brought back vivid memories of how snowy that year was. (Maybe it’s the alternate timeline thing again. Or maybe removing the music also affected the climate, LOL).

@whohar BTL at the Graun is as bad as Tripadvisor! Unlike here where we can disagree, criticise episodes without resorting to cliches like RTD’s destroyed my childhood and complaining about vile woke rubbish being shoehorned in. (Or the passive/aggressive ones who say they have no problem with the Doctor being female/black/gay/alien but have a go at the “lazy, sloppy writing” instead. When you know they actually have a problem with the actor).

On the subject of the online trolls and keyboard warriors I have been ROFLing at the current comments (mainly on twitter/X) with people salivating at the return of the Moff tonight. Very probably a lot of the same ones who were moaning about his too convoluted plots/ruining their DW  a decade ago.

 

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@blenkinsopthebrave and @juniperfish – thanks for the Moffat articles. I remember the first time he said “I’d have to be insane to go back to Dr Who so soon” and my first thought was – Aha! So how many episodes are you writing?!  😉

@janetteb would be lovely to see a bit of #2’s spirit coming back but both Moff and RTD grew up with #3 as their first Doctor I think, so that’s more likely. Also it’s been trailed that UNIT is back (inc Jenna and Mel) so I do think that suggests more of #3.

@mudlark – LOL at my mistaking a good old dressup monster as bad CGI. Dunno if that’s a compliment to the CGI dept, or the costume one!

 

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There are so many lovely little moments in this!

The Doctor and Ruby on the rooftop of Abbey Road (as the Beatles would/will be in about 6 years time), but also the doctor looking wistfully over to Shoreditch (and Totter’s lane). Is his old/younger self there yet? Susan was at school there for a while so maybe they are. (Haha – the Doctor’s been on 1963 a few times – the timelines must be pretty wibbly wobbly by now). The crossing as piano keys (thanks @mudlark).

And who is Henry? Surname Arbinger (or Harbinger…?!) – the kid at the beginning who reappears at the end? Not to mention Susan Twist  (my brain ties itself in knots about her as it’s the actor’s name, not the character! Yet there’s always a twist, haha!! Maybe diageticness(?) is a key to this season ie it’s all just a big ball of meta!

Picking up on a post earlier by @ps1l0v3y0u – 1963 was BLOODY FREEZING!! (I was very small but I remember it being snowy (really deep) for months!). But we were in Scotland – was it as snowy as that in London? (Even in 2010 London seemed to escape most of the worst of the snow after the first chunk of it landed in early winter).

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Some more thoughts on the episode itself…

As @mudlark said – the Doctor’s and Ruby’s costumes are slightly out of time – which could either be down to an alternate timeline, or the TARDIS wardrobe doesn’t have an accurate dating system – or BBC wardrobe dept doesn’t either! or they (all) just thought these looked cool! (Which they do).

Been puzzling about the idea about why the Beatles are trying to record a new record when music has disappeared. Again it could be an alternate timeline, but my fave theory at the moment is that Maestro first appeared in 1925 (the same year as her father The Toymaker (maybe due to the Dr disempowering salt  (in WBY ep) as a means to keep out the out-of-our-universe bad guys)), and then disappeared from our world to reappear in Feb 1963. So that music has been there – the people in the nearby buildings know about it, the Beatles are in the studio, there are instruments and recording equipment – but that it has only very recently been sucked out of our world.

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@juniperfish – thanks so much for sharing the Attitude article. Really worth a read (great pics as well!). Intelligent and insightful. If Ncuti brings even a fraction of that insight to his role as the Doctor, he’s going to be one of the best ever. And we’re really going to miss him when he goes (which I fear is likely to be sooner than later, he has so much talent).

BTL in the Graun is a cesspit. Sadly they’ve been closing it off very early since Martin Bellam took over; I get the feeling they’re trying to cut it off before the late night keyboard warriors take over. It’s always too early for me to jump in. The first comments are usually more measured (not always favourable but reasoned).

My own feelings about the first couple of episodes is that RTD is having fun (cos he can!) and easing us in gently. I think we  have to wait for the full season to judge his vision for our favourite timelord. And as several people above have pointed out – it’s got us all talking and speculating again, and that is so much fun. Great to see everyone on these boards again. I only watched a couple of Jodie’s more than once (and then there wasn’t much to speculate about), but I’ve already watched these twice, and taken a deep dive into looking for clues, teases and easter eggs.

I also like that RTD has picked up and run with the “foundling” idea. it doesn’t really change who the Doctor is, but adds a layer of mystery again and a foregrounds the whole “found family” which is a concept that always ran through Who (and resonated with a lot of the fandom).

This new iteration won’t be for everyone (and that’s OK) but if DW wants to last another 60 years it needs to evolve and change, not just the backstory, but how they tell the stories. It needs to be bold.

Would love to have heard the lovely Dan Martin’s thoughts on it all. RIP Dan

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@bunface

Missed the Chris Waites (& The Carrollers) banner, nice spot. Apparently it’s an Easter egg – a reference back to the very first eisode:

https://www.radiotimes.com/tv/sci-fi/doctor-who-chris-waites-carollers-newsupdate/

Doesn’t rule it out being a current “bad wolf” type hint as well tho.

@ps1l0v3y0u – SLC – there is a record label with that name, also a US based one called SLC-6. Neither of them with any particular profile.  Theorise away 😉

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@juniperfish

Perhaps Susan is Ruby’s birth grandmother

Now you’ve got me! So where does Mrs Flood fit in? 😉

Maybe Susan is actually the Rani – went wrong as a result of being abandoned by the Doctor.

@janetteb @miapatrick – I take your point about martial music but I think music is actually the best of us; and it’s inbuilt – babies respond to it before they can walk or talk. Warmongers just misappropriate it for their own purposes.

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@blenkinsopthebrave

I think you (and Mrs B) are spot on with 1925. That’s exactly the year the Toymaker sneaked in (and I think it’s related to the Doctor blowing the salt superstition in Wild Blue Yonder (he says something then about having made it up, and that he’ll pay for it, now that it’s out there that it’s a fallacy.).

@juniperfish “trollsplaining” is my new favourite word.

Great video clip 🙂

Links well to the tone of  the current series.

@everyone – Can we agree that “woke crap” is not a welcome phrase in this forum? Neither is calling fellow forum members pathetic. I don’t mind being called woke, and DW has been “woke” since its earliest days, and all the better for it. If you don’t like it then this isn’t the forum for you.

I didn’t think the anti pro-life and refugee comments were “shoehorned” into Space Babies – it’s very much part of the whole story.

Now on to more intriguing things… what gender/sexuality ARE the daleks?! And would that explain a lot about them? 😉

And indeed – Susan Twist – is RTD teasing us?

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@mudlark

Re the babies not developing physically, I think that was explained but I need to go back to pick up on it exactly. They grew mentally but more slowly physically

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@Miaparick

had they turned up on a space station being bravely run by a pack of puppies all trying to be good girls and boy’s, I’d have been all over it.

Haha. Don’t be giving RTD ideas – he’ll be doing a version with Karvanista’s offspring 😉

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@jimthefish

I was put in mind of Oxygen too, and The Almost People – where people are expendible, and profit is priority.

@juniperfish

I am a huge fan of RTD’s full-chest Doctor Woke.

I read in an interview with RTD (around the time of It’s A Sin) that he’d got to a point in life and career where he doesn’t intend to pull his punches. Fart jokes aside this is a more confident, experienced and bolshy writer than in 2005. (But yes, hoping we’re not going down an Impossible Girl route again. Mysterious I can live with (Got my snowboots looked out for JimTheFish’s predicted finale!)).

I’m also a huge fan of the fishes in this Forum!

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<waves back at @juniperfish >

Good catch on Lady Madonna, and yes indeedy – the Doctor’s and Ruby’s outfits looked fab gear 😉 (although  maybe a little too Motown inspired for ’63 (I would’ve killed for Ruby’s boots back then!!)).

Talking of costumes, a little Easter egg – the old lady who got unceremoniously murdered by Maestro was played by June Hudson – who was BBC costume designer in the 7os including Blake’s 7, and Dr Who. She was responsible for Tom Baker’s late 70’s look.

Couple of things with bonkers theorising potential –

Who was the boy (Henry?) who was evaporated/(dematerialised?) at the beginning (piano pupil)? He reappears peeking round a door at the end.

And what the hell is going on with the actor Susan Twist?! Apparently she’s been in 4 episodes so far – Isaac Newton’s servant, woman watching Ruby’s band (in the Xmas special – she asks if they can play Gaudete), as recorded Comms officer in Space Babies and as one of the Tea Ladies in The Devil’s Chord. And she’s listed in the cast for next week! No info yet about later episodes. Link here.

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Hi @janetteb

The Christmas Invasion – thank you.

Hope all’s well with you and your fam down under. Great that you all still watch together.

@ps1l0v3y0u

 it didn’t make me switch off half way through thinking, ‘I’ll come back and watch the rest when I’m drunk’

Ha!! I suspect/hope the warm fluffiness is just to lure us (especially the newbies (newhobies?!) in. All ages have to end, change is endemic and the salt doesn’t work against the bad guys any more.

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I think it was a really good idea to show both these episodes together. They show the fun side of DW and (as I said on the Space Babies thread) get us familiar with the new Doctor and companion and firmly establish them  as people we’d like to hang out with for the rest of the season. Ncuti continues to be awesome!

There are more shades of darkness in this one, and technically I think it’s better than the Babies one. Monsoon manages to keep it just to the right side of not being pantomime, and dives deep into the character. Related to the Toymaker (did I pick up correctly that she’s his daughter?) and sneaking into our world in 1925 – the same year as the Toymaker. Hmm.  Also mention of salt (losing its power to keep them out) – a call back to Wild Blue Yonder when the Doctor wonders if he’ll regret using the superstition to defeat the no-things, and that it might mean that other (very bad) things can now enter our universe.

I liked the concept, and the music is well used. Better informed forum members will have lots more to say on the subtleties of it I’m sure! Using the sonic to cause silence then balanced by the tuning fork to create vibrations.

The actors playing the Beatles looked absolutely nothing like them (and the wigs took the term “moptop” to an extreme!), but fortunately they weren’t overused. Any more would have been irritating (but maybe that’s just someone who’s old enough to have grown up with the Beatles. Speaking of old – I’m hoping that gratuitous bumping off of old ladies isn’t going to be a thing! 😀 )

The dance sequence at the end just about justified itself (with a good 60s feel to it), and made a sort of sense in a story about music (and with a play on “story twist” and the 60s Twist dance craze), but like the babies, I’m hoping RTD has now got it out of his system, LOL

And there was something like snow again. I’m sensing a theme!

(I did like Ruby’s “where’s my mum?” line when they landed in a devastated 2024).

There’s definitely a feeling of a new era, of freshness and ambition; the acting and the production values are carrying it, and I’m hoping things will be a bit less fluffy going forward. I’m optimistic, taking  into account Wild Blue Yonder in particular, which is one of my favourite episodes ever. Looking forward to the return of Stephen Moffat next week.

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Treating it as the first ep of a new season and a new era, I thought it was a bit lightweight but enjoyable, and did what it had to do in terms of exposition for a new audience.

On the negative side I thought the CGI for the snot-monster was very poor, but on the plus side Ncuti is amazing! He completely owns the part, energetic, charismatic with just enough hints of the dark side, and his chemistry with Ruby is great too.

No problem with the foundling/orphans theme, but hopefully we are now done with babies tho, and RTD’s got his fart jokes out of the way for this season 😀

Continuity things – if the TARDIS has a Butterfly Effect button – why didn’t 14 use it when they met Isaac Newton (Mavity?)? The Doctor’s flashback to the night he rescued baby Ruby – the change in the figure who left her – who’s now doing a great Jacob Marley impersonation – is that an indication that things have changed (or someone’s mucking about with the timelines)?

And snow in the TARDIS? (Was there not something before about someone thinking something was snow and it ended up being ashes? Anyone remember?)

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@whohar  Cheers m’dear!

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What the Beatles SHOULD have been recording that day (11 Feb 1963) in EMI Studios.

And it’s got a Twist reference too 🙂

 

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@blenkinsopthebrave *Waves back from across the pond!* Glad you enjoyed it, and great we’ll be able to discuss the new season in (almost!) real time.

@thane16 Hi Puro, I was thinking about you watching The Devil’s Chord – look forward to reading your thoughts on it which I’m sure will be a much deeper dive than mine 😀

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Thank you @craig (And yes, I believe this is the pattern for the rest of the series).

IMO it’s very exciting to have all of us potentially able to watch at the same time (or at least those who have Disney+ or itunes).

Agree with @whohar (and greetings my Antipodean friend) anything goes on the episode threads, but no spoilers at any time outwith that. Personally, I couldn’t resist an early dip, but then I’m generally a night owl anyway.

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In honour of the brand new season/era – inspired by the title  of episode 1 – Space Babies… (I have no idea if this going to be anything like appropriate 😉 but it popped into my head tonight (haven’t listened to it for ages))

Jefferson Starship (Paul Kantner on vocals) – The Baby Tree – a chirpy little ditty, surreal and a gentle little barb just at the end.

 

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Oooh, lots of interesting discussions going on here.

Continuity in Dr Who…. mwuhuhuh. That way madness lies f’sure… and bonkers theories too 😀

Can’t believe we’re (finally) on the cusp of Ncuti Doc’s debut proper.  Anyone going to join me for something suitably blue and liquid in here, while we wait for the Winchester’s rather ancient viewing scanner to fire up?

A TARDIS-tini anyone?

Or a Sonic Screwdriver? 😉

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