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@whisht

Nice contrast in song choices there

🙂

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<Waves to @whisht>

Thanks for your “troll” post. Absolutely agree. Generally it’s better to engage than to blast out of the water.  We live by the question “What would the Doctor do?”

(Likewise I’ve been doing more lurking than posting recently. Damn that RL!!)

And welcome to cute Shetland troll @summersmith Some trolls are very welcome! 🙂

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To all fellow Buffy obsessives – Metro finally catching up, LOL

http://metro.co.uk/2015/03/10/18-reasons-buffy-the-vampire-slayer-was-the-best-show-on-tv-5095994/?ito=facebook

 

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Just dashing through, but have to agree with @lisa – lovin @barbaralefty‘s turn of phrase. Another poster, of several regulars  in here, who make me splutter over my keyboard!  (You know who you are 🙂 )

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Nice post @ichabod.

I was coming on to say much the same, having rewatched last night. It’s interesting seeing the episodes after the first rush of watching in “real time” and with the hindsight of knowing how the rest of the series pans out. You also get the chance to watch other details when you don’t have to keep such a close eye on the story. Like every little twitch and all the nuances Capaldi brings to the role. He really is quite superb! As are the rest of the cast.  And I stand by my earlier comments on this episode – it’s about humans growing up as a species. They have to make their own decision here in order to move forward as a species. But CapDoc has every faith that his “apprentice” will make the right one. He doesn’t doubt it for a second.

I think I mentioned it upstream, but it’s a nice touch having the 3 women make the decision – like the 3 Fates from various mythologies – the old woman, the younger one and the almost-child.

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@fatmaninabox

Thanks for the cuckoos, great series of wee clips. Been a fun week digging out Laurel & Hardy vids. It’s hard to stop at just one 😉 Glad you liked, and they made you smile. And occasionally fall off the sofa, haha.

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@whisht Ah, well, yes… ahem.. thanks(???) for Charlie Drake! 😉 So… WHY is he hanging out with Daleks and Cybermen and Ood?!  But I will happily forgive you for the Teardrop Explodes. And join with @Purofilion in wishing you a happy birthday (belated from me – hope you’d a great day).

Happy to report Pete Wylie’s still about (Julian C as well I think) – check him out on twitter, he has a great line in bolshiness. This was a fave when it came out –

(from Dec 2014)

 

 

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@lisa Mwahahaha – great video link. What is it with Scottish Doctors and drag? 😆

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@jimthefish

Agree with you 110% re William McIlvanney. Can’t believe his books were out of print at all, never mind for as long as they were. Docherty in particular is a classic. Great wee documentary, and me too re a bit teary. The chat with Ian Rankine in particular is just lovely.

For anyone who wants to check it out, it’s still on iplayer for most of the month – http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b053q3pf   (a scant 30 mins).

Further to the out of print observation, and your comment a while back (on TV thread I think), you are also spot on when you mentioned re not enough opportunities for young TV writers to experiment, make mistakes and hone their craft these days. Can you imagine Boys From the Black Stuff being commissioned now? Or even Cracker… ? I doubt even Doctor Who would have much chance without a fully fleshed out back story for our hero!

 

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@Purofilion

Ah, that was it sorry, forgot to mention that. You can’t blame the actor for the number of interviews they get pitched into, there’s not usually much choice.  Usually organised through the programme press office, and it will be written into their contracts that they have to do them.  Lots of people, especially actors when they don’t have their character to hide behind, tend to overcompensate on the enthusiastic chatter side. (But I don’t know him so I could be wrong. I often am, haha)

So, I’m not dead to you, then?

Naaah 😉 Course not. And I agree with you about Donna. Loved her outspokenness, and she and Tennant had great (non sexual) chemistry)

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@Purofilion 😆

I had hopes for a massive sum to be dropped into my bank account – I’m sure she’s a poor orphaned Russian princess hehe

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@Purofilion

Re not time travelling much – In addition to your examples there was my favourite, Listen. Going back on the Doctor’s own timeline so Clara could be his “thing” under the bed!  That’s pretty “out there” IMO.

You are so right when you say that being “out there” is wbat the show does best.

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News update from teh redoubtable Kasterborous. The Burton Doctors again, also links to interviews with Moffat re Clara’s plans for leaving at end of  Series 8 (now cancelled. Probably).

A bit about James Corden taking over from mad Who fan Craig Ferguson on US’s Late Late, and a bittersweet wee item about Tennant’s dad being terminally ill.

http://www.kasterborous.com/2015/03/fridays-news-late-late-show-tennant-burton/

 

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@papermoon

 Rupert and Orson, such a big set up, if they are not important, why even put them there

You got the payoff in the episode. (Although I do hope we’ll see more of Orson).

@ichabod Sorry you didn’t like Danny. I thought he got a raw deal from the fans on the whole. A lot of it seemed to be coming from the “What is this? The Clara show?” ARSE brigade, but not all of it.  I’ll concede his character probably suffered a bit from being the Doctor’s mirror in many ways, and it was maybe difficult to develop when he was only on screen intermittently. But I thought he was a sympathetic if damaged charcater and I liked his arc – his sacrificing himself to save the Afghan boy at the end was entirely in character.

 

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@jimthefish

No No NO!! She only has a thing for robotic yetis. She told me so, said I was special. She’s mine I tell you, mine!!!

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Not sure if this should go in Fan Creativity but it seemed a nice thing to chill on the sofa with. All the Doctors as visualised through a Tim Burtonesque distorting mirror. I love them. Especially the moving ones at the end. #4 is knock-out 🙂

https://killerkitsch.wordpress.com/2015/02/22/tim-burtonesque-doctor-who-caricatures/

 

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@nick1235 Welcome back, and agree with others, your English is fine. I’d be wary of repeating too much of what you come across in here in your English class tho – ” arse-brained fuckwittery” may not go down too well with your teacher, haha

@pedant 😆 at your post #38354 (the source of the aforementioned “arse-brained fuckwittery” (dangit! another computer screen splattered with coffee!))

@Purofilion We may be close to falling out*. First (ages ago, but I’ve been AWOL) you have a go at my fave AG Dr – Ten (well he was till 12 turned up… 12 may have pushed everyone down a place 😉  ) and now your saying my fave companion Donna was “abrasive” Abrasive?? Donna…??? Oh, well, maybe just a little! But I agree her end was more than tragic. She learned so much (then lost so much) in her time in the blue box.

@janetteb

 I often think of the Companion’s travels with the Doctor as equating to the working holiday/gap year adventure that so many of us embark on when young. We know that it can’t go on forever.

I love that, and quite agree. Not to mention that time (spent) travelling when you’re young seems to go on forever. Then suddenly you’re looking at it thro the wrong end of the telescope. Memories are good and to be cherished (they don’t always last forever either). Your second post about regrets and near misses moved me very much. So glad you’re still with us to contribute to this forum. (As well as for your boys of course!) And you’re so right – our perspectives and priorities change with age. But our mistakes are part of who we are, they’re how we learn. If we never make mistakes we’re not trying hard enough.

 

*Just kidding about the falling out  Puro 😉

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Apologies for the long post above!  Thanks to anyone who takes the time to read it!

@ichabod I agree with you. I’d put “lazy” along with “sloppy” and “deus ex machina” (*waves cheerily to @bluesqueakpip*) as terms of criticism that have been so overused (not to say lazily used 😉 ) as to be meaningless and best avoided.

I also liked your earlier post about editors, though I disagree that a good editor should focus on what made the previous book (or whatever) successful. That’s not the way to create quality. Good editors need a deep understanding of the writer they are editing, and of what they are trying to say. At its best it should be symbiotic and good writers will recognise and value that (however grudgingly, haha).

The other thing about creativity which is massively undervalued in these days of ratings driven commissions is the value of the right to fail. I know @jimthefish and @bluesqueakpip in particular have both touched on this in previous discussions. And it goes back to my earlier comment about things needing the time to be developed properly, before they are brought out into the spotlight.

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Wow! I do seem to have touched a nerve with my original post about Broadchurch 2 🙂 Thanks for all the contributions to the debate everyone. But yes, please let’s keep it civil (but still robust!). It’s why this Forum is so special.

@pedant

But in B2 he didn’t seem to know and just threw a load of plot at the wall – in fact it pretty much reeked of “How to set up the third part of a the trilogy”.

@jimthefish made a similar point

I think the main flaw with BC2 is that he didn’t have as firm a handle on what he wanted to say compared to the first series.

I disagree quite strongly with both of you, while not disagreeing that BC1 was intended as a one off, so BC2 wasn’t created as an organic follow-up. That created the problem that things that looked to have been tied up had to be loosened a bit. However I think Chibnall was quite clear about the story he wanted to tell – but it’s not the one that most people seem to think, hence the criticism.

For me it’s not really about the trial or the Sandbrook case at all, so it doesn’t matter that we are not particularly invested in the victims of that case. It’s about the divisive effects 1 person’s actions can have on a small comunity, and how badly people function when they are isolated and lonely, about how grief and betrayal make them push other people away, even when they most need help and support. It’s about how, however much we like to think we can live “compartmentalised” independent lives we are all interconnected and stronger when we recognise that and embrace our flaws and the fact that we can’t do everything alone, no matter how strong we think we are.

BC2 picks up on the state of the characters at the end of BC1 and continues their emotional journeys.  I like the fact that both Miller and Hardy in particular are flawed, ordinary (forced to deal with extraordinary circumstances) and make bad “shout at the screen they are being so stupid” mistakes – and they have to pay for these in BC2. With the QCs we have back stories which explain a lot of how they are in court, but I wouldn’t disagree that these don’t get quite enough screen time (in fact I alluded to it in my initial review, while avoiding too much detail so as not to be spoilery).

Far from setting up BC3 I think BC2 actually ties up a lot of (emotional) ends and gives the characters a much better resolution than they had at the end of BC1. And yes I know there’s been reports of BC3 being commissioned. Interesting points about editors and US type writers rooms, which I wouldn’t necessarily disagree with, but it depends on the quality of the people involved.  Drama in particular also needs time to be developed properly, as well as talent, and I suspect that is something which is at a premium in modern TV writing. And yes, the drive to milk a successful series isn’t usually the best motivation for creating a follow up.

@bluesqueakpip mentioned Baby Moon Dragons, which was one of the things I was coming back to say – that and golden arrows 😉

At the end of the day, a story either appeals or it doesn’t. For me both series of Broadchurch resonated strongly, I was invested in the characters and wanted to follow their journeys. The “whodunnit” and “will he get off” aspects of it were secondary for me, therefore the court setups didn’t impinge on my enjoyment or annoy me the way they obviously did others. For me that wasn’t the story that was being told.

@jimthefish You mentioned that Chibnall isn’t McGovern – fair enough, but very very few writers are. (What’s McGovern up to these days anyway?)

Talking of other writers, what BC does bring to mind for me is JB Priestly’s An Inspector Calls, a play which has drawn flack for being “bourgeois drawing room drama” when in fact it’s dealing with a completely different type of “realism”.

 

 

 

 

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Yup, Daemons would get my vote too 🙂

 

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@Purofilion You pipped me to the post!

@pedant So, not a fan of Broadchurch 

😆

@ichabod @bluesqueakpip

If you didn’t like S1, you won’t like S2. I loved the layers in the characters, the details in the pacing and the fact that even the leads aren’t always likeable or right in what they do. And they’re all driven by grief and a sense of betrayal (not all of it sexual, there are many different betrayals), and of everything they took for granted being challenged/shattered. How do you come back from that?

I disagree (obv) that it’s poor writing, tho I’m happy to concede (as in my review above) that it has its clunky bits. Just that the character development and interaction are the central driving forces and it worked for me.  And as in Buffy S7 I can forgive its mis-steps for what it delivered in the finale.

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@bluesqueakpip

Re Broadchurch – I’d definitely recommend you give it a shot.

Spoiler free ScaryB review –

The main thing that’s been attracting criticism is the lack of realism about the court room scenes. It is problematic but I can see why they wanted to shape the series round it. The problem is that while it works as a symbolic space – a place to bring all the characters together, where the truth must be told, and where they can all share in certain revelations at the same time – it’s not filmed as metaphor (and wouldn’t work that way in the context of the rest of the show).  So if you have any knowledge of the workings of courts, you will need to do a big suspension of disbelief and just go with it. The timescale of the trial also has a distorting effect  on things that happen, to 2 characters in particular, which would normally need more than the time they are given to recover from. (But you are the Queen of timeywimey, I’m sure you can work your way through that! 🙂 )

There are also quite a lot of background characters who need to be introduced to make sense of some of the lead characters’ journeys and motivations, so again you need to sometimes think through the implications of these, from what are essentially quite sketchy, sometimes rushed, bits.

On the other hand, what it does get right is its emotional heart, and characters’ emotional journeys. The acting is superb throughout, from the leads to the minor characters, inc one of the kids. It’s quite harrowing at times in showing how isolated individuals become as a result of 1 character’s actions in particular and a number of other (relatively) smaller betrayals, and how people react to them. The camerawork is also fantastic, making full use of the location and contrasting the massive solidity of the cliffs and the sea with the smallness of the people.  It’s also great on very small, underplayed details which reveal character. There are great female characters all through it – I thought it had a particularly strong take on the female perspective (while not dismissing the male one) – and the finale definitely pays off in my opinion and possibly not in the way you might expect.

So there you go. Hope you get a chance to check it out (tell me about lists of things to be watched!). Would love to hear what you think.

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On a sidestep from Buffy love 🙂 – is anyone still watching Broadchurch?

Finally caught up with the finale of series 2. And much like Buffy S7 finale. it makes up for everything that was slightly off about the rest of the series. When Broadchurch gets it right, it does so in spades, and often it’s in the very small details.  Also similarly to Buffy, it delivered redemption to its characters in bringing shattered, previously painfully isolated souls back together in a moment that had me blubbing embarrassingly (but fortunately unwitnessed!!). Things had changed, none of them will be the same again, but all had developed and found a way to move on together.

Performances were stunning (but generally understated) throughout, not least from Tennant and the amazing Olivia Colman. Arthur Darvill too.

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@Purofilion Glad the finale blew your socks off. Great analysis

@pedant – Great to see you back; hope RL’s improving and you get settled to regular computer again soon

@cathannabel

<span style=”font-style: italic; color: #222222;”>that beautiful sequence of young women taking that power on, without understanding it but knowing that its theirs, and standing up, literally or figuratively… Lord, that moves me so much</span>

As @jimthefish already said, that is just so moving. Thank you

@jimthefish

t’s a spine-tingling moment that redeems whatever weaknesses the season overall had because it’s not just a powerful, affirming statement to make but because it’s also a moment of incredible narrative power. This is Buffy ultimately triumphing over the Watchers’ Council, Prophecy, the whole patriarchal edifice that has dictated her life since she was called as a Slayer.

Yes, yes, and yes!

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Spock’s last tweet –

Leonard Nimoy  TheRealNimoy

A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP

 

@lisa “set screwdriver on weep! RIP”
Aw, nice one

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@thekrynoidman @papermoon

thanks for posting.

It is indeed sad news. I remember being resentful when Star Trek took over Dr Who’s slot in the summer break in UK (especially cos Who used to run all year round – no concept as a small viewer of what that actually meant re the production schedules!) but I grew to love it and Spock was always my fave (along with Uhuru and Sulu).

There’s obituaries all over the place – he might even break the internet! but this one from the NY Times is particularly nice

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/27/arts/television/leonard-nimoy-spock-of-star-trek-dies-at-83.html?smid=tw-nytimes&_r=0#

😥

sniff

🙁

 

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@jimthefish

Completely agree with that. It was Forsyth’s first film as a director  (he wrote and produced it a well) and most of the actors were from Glasgow Youth Theatre (except Ricky Demarco, but he was playing himself! 😉 ). So you can forgive him for being on a learning curve with it! But it has a freshness about it that shines through, not to mention pitch black humour. And it was 1979 so not that many films being made about “Glesca schemies*” back then! Not to mention that the basic equipment for filming was so much more expensive – none of yer digital stuff back then pal!

I think it was released on DVD last year, must try to track it down again.

Just got to get out and do it

You do indeed.

Still need the idea/vision first though. If you’ve not got that all the fancy kit in the world won’tmake good art  😉

🙂

 

@lisa Thanks. It’s not a great quality clip, but glad you “got it”.  It’s interesting how you can pick up a sense of things even when you don’t understand all the dialect

 

*Babel Fish Translation Services – Young people from a rough neighbourhood (scheme) in Glasgow; probably up to no good!

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@craig Ah, thank you so much for this. And for The Muppets vs Wicker Man (ROFLd at that ). And the Kermode clip – great stuff. And yes very moving. Wee bit of dust floating about there…

@jimthefish I’ve probably mentioned this before, but did you ever catch Bill Forsyth’s 1st film, made on a budget of 1 peanut (or possibly a stolen sink!) That Sinking Feeling –

(Starts with discussion of various ways of committing suicide, starting with drowning yourself in cornflakes and milk! It’s black and brilliant)

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Well this is going to annoy the “Danny Pink is boring brigade” 😀

Congrats to Samuel Anderson on winning Best Male Performance on TV at the Screen Nation Awards

http://www.kasterborous.com/2015/02/samuel-anderson-wins-best-male-performance-tv-screen-nation-awards/?utm_source=ReviveOldPost&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=ReviveOldPost

 

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Wow @Purofilion – you’ve watched all 7 series of Buffy since NOVEMBER!!

What are you going to do now??

(And glad you enjoyed the finale – it makes up for all the annoying Pots along the way. And then some 🙂  )

PS I reckon they talked. A bit.

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@ichabod Yes, but these are mutal dreams. Interaction is possible, people’s memories are consistent with having been in the same dream, and there are consequences -if you die in the dream, you’re dead. I’m quite happy to go with what happened in the dream was experienced by them all. There’s enough evidence to support that. Think of it as an alternate reality state if you like.

@lisa

I going to go mash up a few jelly babies now

🙂   🙂  🙂

@bluesqueakpip

Thanks for clarifying. 🙂

Couple of things from your post –

the Time Lords know that there’s an extra Doctor by the end of DotD – they comment on it – “all 13 of them”. Therefore they know that at some stage (pretty soon) he is going to wangle at least 1 more regeneration, and likely from them. Maybe they are looking for him to grant him that very thing in Time of the Doctor (obv they realise it’s in their own interests to do so of course, but they know it happens)

And the gunless soldier in Listen – you’re right – the Doctor must recognise it as something from his own childhood. Even though it was such a long time ago. You don’t forget what the mysterious thing under the bed gave you. Even if that memory is buried very, very deep (and he did forget about the clockwork droids in Deep Breath) it’s there to be found. Something clicked at some level when he saw it with Rupert/young Danny. Did he see it when Orson had it? (dang my memory – will need to check that)

 

 

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@Purofilion

I agreee that S7 isn’t as neat for a lot of it as previous series. But it’s about consequences and “destiny”

The Scoobies are seriously weakened as a result of s6.  They no longer function as a tight unit. There’s suspicion and disillusion. Relationships they thought were for life have shattered, the certainties of adolescence exploded. Buffy for all of her adolescence and adult life to date has been told she has a destiny to fulfil as the Slayer. She didn’t chose it, and it’s making her very isolated.

Like a child prodigy who has achieved a massive amount career-wise, by the time she’s 20ish, Buffy has to work out who she really is, in herself, and how she’s going to live the rest of her life. She’s hit rock bottom – with the death of her mother and the ill advised relationship with Spike – and she can’t connect with her former friends any more. She knows she has power but she doesn’t know how to use it effectively, to make things better for the people around her.  In the words of Yeats – “Things fall apart and the centre fails to hold”

PS You’re doing great – most of us have had years to think through all of this. Boy Ilion too 😉

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@lisa

HurtDoc was brought forward in a time stream event an CapDoc must have been brought back???
So does that still have the same effect on memories.

More than that – CapDoc didn’t even exist at that time! Eleven hadn’t been granted his extra regens at that point 😈 So I think it’s highly likely he doesn’t remember his part in it.

@ichabod I suspect that the Xmas epi tied up series 8.  eg they’ve both faced up to how they were lying in the cafe – great scenes. But it’s fun to speculate that they might still be dreaming 😀

 

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@schamster The barn is referenced again in Listen – Clara says something to the young Doctor along the lines of 1 day you’ll come back to this barn and you’ll be very scared, accompanied by an image of Hurt Doctor approaching the barn. We are clearly meant to see them as the same.

Apologies for my phrasing in the earlier post – I said timelocked when I should have said hidden/displaced.

@lisa I don’t think CapDoc necessarily remembers the part he played in Day of the Doctor – there was a reference in it, and in other multiple Doctor stories about (out of normal timeline) memories not being remembered till the appropriate time. Eg Nine, Ten, Eleven won’t remember that they took part in the saving/hiding of Gallifrey until Eleven gets to that point in his timeline when it happens.  Even though all the previous selves were involved, and specifically HurtDr whom they remember as having destroyed Gallifrey rather than saving it. CapDoc knows that Gallifrey is no longer timelocked and is now hidden (due to his previous selves’ actions). He probably doesn’t remember that he was also involved in the saving.

I don’t think Clara saw CapDoc being involved, she didn’t interact with him. If she did then she clearly doesn’t remember otherwise she would have recognised him in Deep Breath.

No wonder Moffat came up with the phrase wibbly wobbly timey wimey… stuff 😉

@bluesqueakpip HELP!! 😉

 

 

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@bluesqueakpip

That’s what I meant.

That Clara is so overwhelmed by the significance of her being in the Doctor’s past that she doesn’t register its implications for Gallifrey’s no-longer-timelocked status.

And I agree with you re Missy clearly being out and about when she should also be timelocked. I’m surprised the Doctor didn’t have a peek at the TARDIS flight logs after Listen, despite/because of  Clara’s warning. It’s not like him to do what he’s told, haha.

Btw are we thinking that Capaldi Doc doesn’t remember the events of Day of the Doctor yet, cos he hasn’t got there yet? (He’s still doing the blackboard calculations). And Clara presumably doesn’t know of his involvement as I don’t think she witnessed it, did she? (Time for a rewatch of DotD I think 🙂 )

 

 

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@barbaralefty BG Who was often notable for character driven stories, this particular one probably more than most.  As you say it comes partly from having multiple episodes in which to tell the story and set up side characters. The down (and up) side of the format is that because it was shown over several weeks, with no oportunity to replay the stories had to go a bit more slowly. This one is very much a “monster lite” story, and as such, was quite unusual. I do seem to remember politics being touched on a few times, and fairly overtly, quite often with the Doctor on the side of the oppressed underdogs (quite a theme of the post war 60s). The 3rd episodes (of 4 parters) did have bit of a reputation of being “filler” though.

@juniperfish So glad you like Troughton, he really is quite brilliant as the Doctor, and was well into his stride by this time. He and Jamie are a great pairing. Sadly most of the missing episodes are Troughton ones, including his debut in Power of the Daleks (which also had political intrigue if I remember right). The Doctor, Jamie and Zoe is my favourite combination ever, even beating Rory and Amy with Smithy (which was possibly inspired by it). @htpbdet‘s blogs are great on the subject, and describe the Paternal Magician much more eloquently than I can. Seeing him as Salamander (and even more as the Doctor playing at Salamander) makes you realise what a carefully constructed, tho seemingly effortless, characterisation his Doctor is, from the little sideways glances to the body language and nuances in the voice).

Love the breaking crockery. well there’s no way you can stay on when all the crockery’s broken, can you?!

Victoria’s very sweet, but really not a lot of use! (give me Zoe any day 🙂 ) But she’s plucky and she does try so hard to please. Note: if she was a Dickens heroine as suggested above, she’d definitely be doomed to an untimely death, probably fading delicately away from consumption! Astrid and Fariah do provide a nice balance re female characters though.

 

 

 

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@DroneX1 @doomberesford

Thanks so much for sharing. I love reading everyone’s memories and about how they got into this crazy old TV show, that gives back so much, sometimes in different ways, to every fan.

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I liked this one. Victoria’s function as leverage for Benik to get to Jamie (and he does rather crumble at the first bit of hairpulling – but that’s why our heroes are better than Benik and Salamander’s functionaries) is nicely balanced out by Astrid’s effectiveness.  Although Salamander seems to use the same guard training school as Star Wars troopers 🙂

@bluesqueakpip – that wasn’t a goof – the box WAS light – the meat would be dehydrated and highly compressed, otherwise it would go off. Well, duh!! 😉  I have to admit to a chuckle or two at the gadget concepts – a radio tracking transmitter and almost instantaeous travel – yet the phones are extremely clunky and easily tapped into.

“Subdued hysteria” but coupled with rampant hormones in Colin’s case – always a tricky combination.  Swann doesn’t want to believe he’s fallen for a complete pack of lies, so is reluctant to confront Salamander outright. How did he end up on the surface though?

Benik is seriously creepy – he has to be to have survived this long in a promoted post in Salamander’s employ.  (Did Milton ever play an evil nazi I wonder, it’s certainly out of that school of acting. It’s interesting watching him ramp it up though – at first he came over as mostly a camp minion, and then gradually his cunning is revealed).

Troughton continues to impress, his character actor experience coming to the fore. Playing the Doctor playing Salamander is a joy to watch, convincing yet with just enough of the Doctor that we aren’t in doubt.  And yes at this stage the Doctor is still just a wandering traveller. But he is indoubtedly “a good man”. He couldn’t have got a way with pulling the handing the gun to the enemy tactic with Benik. Then again he recognises a basic decency in Bruce.

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Interesting discussion.  I agreee that Capaldi’s Doctor is still working on the calculations to complete his part of the hding of Gallifrey. Remember that in the Day of the Doctor that they didn’t KNOW that the Doctors’ intervention would result in a better solution than timelocking the planet, but they HOPED that it would.

But the events in Listen showed that Gallifrey is definitely not timelocked any more – Clara was able to interact with the young Doctor. The TARDIS landed there (and didn’t explode etc therefore didn’t cause a paradox). The irony is that the Doctor doesn’t know that yet. He doesn’t know that he has the means to go back there – he could check the TARDIS’s recent flight records to find it. And Clara is so panicked by the knowledge that she was the thing under the Doctor’s bed that she hasn’t realised the significance of where they were.

Gallifrey isn’t where it was ( correctly spotted @schamster ) – the coordinates given by Missy match the coordinates in Season 18 (I’ll take your word for that 🙂 ) – but it IS accessable.

Now will Clara realise that one day, or will we have to wait till Capaldi has done his bit to hide it. And then he’ll remember.

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@fatmaninabox

Ta for the post, lots of chuckles. Brilliant.  Broadchurch’s timelines, not to mention Alec Hardy’s speedy recovery from heart surgery would make a lot more sense with a TARDIS involved!  Think they missed a trick there. 🙂 (Tho when it gets it right, especially in the details, Broadchurch is unbeatable! eg Jocelyn finding a couple of strands of her (just deceased) mother’s hair on her (mother’s) clothing. Big sniff from me at that bit)

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Just surfacing from a week of lergy, and limited internet. Again! 🙁

Found this and it made me smile. Hope it works for other people too.

A young Peter Capaldi practising his spoon work. You just never know when spoon skills will come in handy 😉 And dancing.

 

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@bluesqueakpip

Yay! Hettie MacDonald (of Blink) 🙂

(That’s as much coherence as I can manage tonight (too many glasses of red) but especially welcome news in light of recent discussions we’ve been having on another thread.)

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@pedant

That link to the interchange between RTD and Moffat is hysterical.

Now if only the rest of fandom could strive for that degree of combative friendly rivalry re who can be the more inventive retconner. You think I’ve caught you out in a continuity error, well Aha! think again 😉  Love the wee dig at Russel’s veggies. and the whole thing is underpinned by Moff clearly wanting RTD to come back to the TARDIS family. But on his terms no doubt 🙂

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@Doctor1994

The big question which no-one who advocates this kind of stunt casting ever answers in any depth is “why”. What would it bring to the show, what would add to the story, beyond the gimmick of doing it?

Diversity in drama (whether TV, film or theatre) isn’t down to who you cast in the lead.  It’s about the quality of the writing, acting, direction, production as a whole; it’s about how that lead interacts with other characters, it’s about the story which is shown on screen, the underlying themes, ethos and the range and roles of the other characters. Sometimes certain issues are best served by metaphors (alien races representing particular  viewpoints or prejudices for example). It’s about open casting and ensuring that involvement at all levels is geninely accessible to all, to the point where it’s not even an issue.

I’m not claiming that Dr Who gets a perfect 10 on all these aspects, but tokenistic casting of the lead (and other) roles is likely to do more harm than good to the actor, the cause and the show. And the more people bang on about “they should do it just becuase it’s not been done before” the more they shoot the cause they’re advocating for in the foot, and the less likely it is to happen.

@bluesqueakpip

 a plot so confused that even the intrepid Whovians on this site couldn’t make sense of it

Oh you think so??! Ha ha, no seriously, I take your point, and I do agree. I don’t think we actually know how lucky we are to have so many fans involved in key production roles, from RTD onwards.

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@craig

You beat me to it!

It was indeed an amazing debut – they’re saying it’s the best debut in almost 50 years of the programme. Ah the Scots – great at the blethering! 😉

Response by a gobsmacked Julian Clary in the Indie

 

 

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@wolfweed

You’re back!!!!!!!!

😀 😀 😀

*does the Yeti dance of joy and spills sparkly glitter all over the sofa*

😳

Hope the trans-dimensional interface remains stable for longer this time 😉

 

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@bluesqueakpip and @Purofilion

Thanks for the response. I actually found the callous killing of Marians’s guardian more disturbing than the robot deaths. I just wondered if the first edit (cut 😉 ) had made it to the DVD as I understood it was a very late decision to re-edit.

Ah well.

And I agree with you both re casting. This persistent snarky issue of “they should cast a female/black/green alien” Doctor is starting to annoy me and is disrespectful to the “types” who are mentioned. It’s agenda driven (including the trollish “let’s have a go at Doctor Who” agenda) and is making it very difficult for future casting to be anything other than “white, male” because it will be such a “big thing”.

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@Purofilion @pedant

Completely agree about The Body. In some ways it’s almost unwatchable (I mean that as a compliment). As ever with Buffy the best bits are expressed in almost mundanely simple terms.

No…yes…It’s always sudden

Pedant: spending an eternity of three days in a room waiting for the breathing to stop. It’s always sudden.

That’s beautifully said also. When the breathing stops the world is irrevocably changed.  The old world vanishes and you’re left in some strange new place.  My condolences Mr P.

 

 

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Just been rewatching (thanks to BBC 3’s repeats (and thanks to @bluesqueakpip for the heads up)). I was hoping they’d have gone back to the orignal edit which showed the Sheriff losing his head (and the Doctor having a more pivotal role in the Robin/Sheriff fight) but sadly it’s still the amended cut. Does anyone know which version is  on the DVD (@Purofilion or @bluesqueakpip?)

Apart from that minor niggle I enjoyed it more this time around. Not that I had a problem with it the first time but re-viewing has made me more aware of the subtleties in Capaldi’s slowly developing characterisation, and more nuances in the story itself.  Same with the other series 8 episodes. The pressure’s off re looking for clues (and avoiding spoilers), so other aspects can come to the fore.  Can’t wait to watch Listen again.

And how did I miss @wolfweed‘s “of spoons and Scotsmen” post (#31889)before – that’s just brilliant.

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@ichabod That’s a great link to Q&A with Moffat.. Loved it. It’s a bit of a shame he’s the showrunner – I’m sure he’d have loved hanging out on our wee sofa if he was still just a fan 😉 (And delighted he confirmed our suspicions that Gallifrey is out of the Timelock but the Doctor hasn’t realised it yet (Listen))

@lisa – Further to your books as sculpture vid, thought this might amuse you – the story of Edinburgh’s mysterious book sculptor from a year or 2 back (identity’s still a mystery I believe,although probably a she. She’s done interviews with the press since then, but only by email to remain anonymous!) Hope it makes you smile, it’s one of my favourite things! http://www.scotland.org/features/edinburghs-mysterious-book-sculptures-to-go-on-display/

Hi and welcome to newbie @dr-genie, and a get well soon wave to @timeywhimeytardis

And thanks @ichabod @barbaralefty and everyone for links and comments. Actually that link to the chimps reminded me of Pratchett’s gorilla librarian 🙂 Death is my fave Pratchett character tho.

 

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