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2 March 2020 at 16:49 #69941
By the way, was it explained why the Doctor’s memory was wiped, or is that still a mystery?
@badwolfalice two things I thought – to keep the work of the Division secret and to hide who the Doctor really was and that she’s not like other Time Lords.
I rather enjoyed the whole thing, though it has meant I’ve had to explain the Morbius thing and the Cartmel Master Plan to three people who probably all wish they’d never asked!
9 November 2018 at 15:17 #65525Again not read the whole thread, but I’m so glad I’m not the only one who sees a bit of the 5th Doctor in Jodie’s portrayal.
‘Timeless Child’ is interesting. I’m torn between wanting to know more and thinking it should just be left as a mystery. There’s such a risk of disappointment and I’m not confident in Chibnall’s abilities yet.
9 November 2018 at 15:01 #65524I’m late to the party and haven’t read the whole thread, but I liked it, like her. Still not sure on Chibnall…
On Grace, there seemed to be a bit of a warning there – I’ve not seen anyone else saying this, but she was enjoying it too much, bit like Clara perhaps? Just caught up with her a bit quicker.
28 July 2017 at 14:59 #61509It isn’t just the subtlety with which he has been able to evoke echoes of all the previous Doctors whilst bringing something extra of his own, it is that of all my favourite Doctors, his is the one to which I have had a strong emotional response – the one who speaks powerfully to and for me personally.
I think @mudlark has described it so perfectly there that I don’t need to say much else!
For me Capaldi was perfect from the start, he just was the Doctor from the start.
21 July 2017 at 12:51 #61238@missy @tardigrade I’ve been re-watching Fifth Doctor episodes from the beginning – just finished Snakedance – and have noticed he tends to say he’s from Gallifrey rather than that he’s a Timelord.
I think @missy and I feel similarly about the Twelfth Doctor – and I also don’t feel the need to have everything wrapped up neatly with a bow on top, nothing wrong with loose ends!
21 July 2017 at 09:28 #61232@antaus great list, but there is a fair amount on there you wouldn’t show to a young child. I love Alien and Terminator, but I wasn’t watching them when I was in primary school.
@whofangirl-73 not all long term fans. I’ve been watching for as long as I can remember and I’m not going anywhere.
The fanbase of just about everything is divided at some point on something. People have different opinions. It’s normal.
My little boy is only four and has watched a few First Doctor episodes, seen clips on YouTube (he loves Clara) and has played with my Lego Tardis. He’s seen the new Doctor and made no comment at all on her being a woman.
20 July 2017 at 19:11 #61179@antaus I think you’re actually highlighting another issue there, that of a reluctance to put money into anything other than a proven franchise.
It must be much easier to sell, for example, the idea of Sherlock Holmes with a twist – Watson is a woman! – than sell a whole new creation.
20 July 2017 at 15:47 #61168As a young girl I had a strong connection to and hero worshipped many men and male characters. As I’ve already said, I wanted to be Luke Skywalker, to be a Jedi. I also wanted to be a Ghostbuster, to be the Ring Bearer, to be the Doctor. I don’t think I’m alone in this, but why can’t it work the other way? Why can’t boys want to be a female character, admire and identify with a woman? Especially with a character that most likely will be male again in a few years.
19 July 2017 at 17:43 #61113She will also have to deal an entire season scripts constantly pointing out that the Doctor is now a woman and explaining any recurring characters why.
Doctor: Hello, I’m the Doctor!
Recurring character does double take.
Doctor: I regenerated.
Hardly takes up a whole episode and anyone familiar with Time Lords presumably won’t need it explained – I’m guessing the Daleks, for example, won’t feel the need to comment on it. What recurring characters are you thinking of anyway? I’d assume there won’t be many.
19 July 2017 at 16:38 #61106@janetteb had a conversation with my 4 year old son a few weeks ago. He points at Lego Friends (very pink, aimed at girls if you don’t know it) comic and asks ‘Is that for girls?’. I say no, that it’s Lego, they do different kinds and you get whatever type you like. ‘But is it for girls?’ he asks again. I repeat what I’ve already explained. Two days later he has both the Lego Friends and the Lego Elves comics and is playing happily with the toys that came with them.
I’m not a ‘pink person’ at all and I liked Space Lego and He-Man and other so-called boyish things when I was little, as well as Barbie and Sindy. I want my little boy to be free to like pink if he wants, and I want little girls to be free to like things that aren’t pink. In terms of the colour-coding of childrens clothes and toys we seemed to have gone backwards.
Happy if they decide to ditch the title, “Time Lady” as it sounds wrong anyway. I think Time Lord works best and as Gallifreyans are gender fluid it makes sense not to use gender specific terms. So “grandfather” should have been “grandparent”, or should be, if we meet up with Susan again.
For all we know Gallifreyan has gender neutral terms and the Tardis just translates as appropriate to make sense to us. Bill points out that they still call themselves Time Lords despite the Doctor saying that they’re way beyond us on gender, but perhaps subtleties get lost in translation
19 July 2017 at 13:02 #61099@missy excellent article, captures why I love the twelfth Doctor so much.
@thane15
I can imagine little kids -girls and boys -playing Doctor Who and not caring if the girl is the Doctor.
When I was a small child I wanted to be Luke Skywalker. There weren’t any female Jedi, but I wanted to be the one to rescue the princess and do all the cool stuff, so I wanted to be Luke. That was at home, at school I wasn’t allowed to be Luke or a Jedi because I was a girl. I’m so glad things are changing. Now if we can just get away from girly=pink.
@nick clearly accept your friends totally – but there could be occasions where you may have to consider their sexuality because other people may not be so accepting, in which case you can’t ignore it.
18 July 2017 at 15:22 #61011So my bonkers theory would be that the Doctor gets halfway through the episode before realizing she’s a woman
@drben I would seriously love it if that happened!
I wonder if Missy will stay female. Either way if s/he shows up while the Doctor is a woman I can see some mickey-taking of how s/he did it first.
17 July 2017 at 21:39 #60970If older fans display similar reasons for dissaproval think about how they would feel. It isn’t fear of change, but a dissaproval of what has been changed.
Some older fans.
My mum has been watching since the beginning and is fine with this. I’m 40 and have been watching Doctor Who for as long as I can remember and I think it’s great. I’m sure there are some young people grumbling about it.
A lot of it is dislike of change – not necessarily fear – and to do with a sense of ownership. I get it, I’ve been here before with ‘The Lord of the Rings’ films amongst others, I’ve read the arguments over and over. At the end of the day those who don’t like it don’t have to watch it, the first twelve Doctors are still there to watch again.
17 July 2017 at 16:23 #60918@exfan
This is probably why Capaldi appears the worst Dr Who?
Best for me. I’ve only been watching for around 37 years though.
Perhaps this is because she would fancy the new Dr? This is not appropriate for a predominately children’s programme.
Why not? I don’t hide the fact that two men or two women can fall in love from my four year old. It’s no more inappropriate than showing a man and a woman falling in love.
I hope we can at least keep the Tardis as a police box, or will the Cameleon circuit now be fixed?
Not going to happen. Sixth Doctor tried, it didn’t stick, I think she likes being a police box too much.
17 July 2017 at 10:22 #60870@premonition a new regeneration cycle was offered to the Master in The Five Doctors so it was already a known possibility.
The extra regenerations have been mentioned a few times with no number given, in fact I think in both Kill the Moon and Hell Bent it was said that the number wasn’t known.
Sorry, personal opinion but I think she is attractive and has a good persona that pulls you into her character.
I’d agree.
@tardigrade I thought the outfit was meant to be similar to Twelves, as in the regeneration had just happened because the coat and hoody looked too big on her – like Tennant in Eccleston’s leather jacket.
16 July 2017 at 17:01 #60768I’m pleased. Never watched Broadchurch so I’ve only seen her in Attack the Block, but she was good in that so I’m more than willing to give her a chance.
Also a woman in the role is probably the only thing that would somewhat alleviate my sadness at Capaldi leaving. I feel quite excited now rather than despondent.
The only worrying thing is Chibnell seems to just be sticking with people he’s worked with on Broadchurch. We’ll just have to wait and see!
14 July 2017 at 19:35 #60630I’ve been looking at at the Holly Black story, also I believe there’s one by Marcus Sedgwick and I really enjoyed his ‘Ghosts of Heaven’. I’ve also had my eye on the Fairy Tales as well.
I’m trying not to buy any books as I have well over a hundred on the waiting to be read pile. On the other hand I have an Amazon voucher burning a hole in my pocket…
14 July 2017 at 18:12 #60605@missrori I think I will be. Never had much to do with the novels, have read a handful because of the authors (Neil Gaiman, Alistair Reynolds), or their status as ‘interesting’ for some reason (Shada, Lungbarrow, Dead Romance).
I’ve been having a look at the more recent Twelfth Doctor ones because I like Bill, good to hear a recommendation. What I’ve actually just bought is ‘Tales of Trenzalore’ because I vaguely remember reading one of the stories has the Mara in and I’ve just watched Kinda – which I have no memory of watching as a child, but I do remember Snakedance and how it terrified me.
13 July 2017 at 13:27 #60590@missy I’m considering reading the books, just to postpone the inevitable, though what I’ve actually done is go back and started watching the fifth Doctor episodes again. And just by coincidence while grumpily not eating anything on Monday because I was having some tests done I watched the Eleventh Doctor try and wipe out the human race in Terminator Genisys followed up by the Ninth Doctor trying to destroy the universe in Thor 2.
Back to the The Doctor Falls, I thought it was very reminiscent of BioShock again at the beginning, loved the two Masters, and I’m sure Missy had some sort of vague subconscious recollection or foreboding of what was going to happen just from the way she looked at the laser screwdriver when she picked it up. Also unlike some people in other places I liked Bill having a happy ending and got fed up of having to say that it was not a deus ex machina.
11 July 2017 at 13:42 #60544A bit late to this, but wow. That was rather good. There may have been a few tears.
I really don’t want him to go 🙁
29 June 2017 at 21:04 #59982We’ve had good hunters and terrible hunters (one was very proud of the slug he caught), usually the females are better, but Guybrush has proved to be an exception.
I prefer it if the gift is alive and uninjured and I really object to dead rats being dropped on the kitchen tops, but if you have cats and let them out you have to expect the occasional something.
Must admit I did take steps to protect the lizards and slow worms at our previous house, but that was easier than for the birds and rodents.
26 June 2017 at 16:56 #59719Loved it. So many things to say, but I think they’ve mostly been covered already.
It strikes me that the dark, nightmarish world at the end of the spaceship where they are converting humanity into the first iteration of the Cybermen is like a dark, inverted version of the Nethersphere.
@blenkinsopthebrave Yes, I thought that.
although it obviously owed a huge debt to computer games like Silent Hill and BioShock too. I was half-expecting to see some Little Sisters show up at some point.
@jimthefish glad I wasn’t the only one!
26 June 2017 at 11:14 #59707You’ve not seen my Fry (as in Phillip J., Futurama). He has very little grace or elegance and is an annoying little sod. But I love him to bits anyway, he’s a big cuddly teddy bear of a cat and is a great friend to the rather more elegant Guybrush (Threepwood, mighty cat. Curse of Monkey Island.)
Sadly Guybrush is rather efficient at hunting birds. The only thing Fry can hunt is cat food, but he is ruthlessly efficient at consuming the contents of all three bowls.
23 June 2017 at 11:14 #59488@missy apart from loving Doctor Who I’m also a massive Tolkien fan, and he did not love cats at all – the character that eventually became Sauron was an evil demonic cat originally. He also received a letter from a fan asking if it was ok to name their cats after his characters and, iirc, his reply was along the lines of ‘unfortunately I can’t stop you’.
There are three of the delightful creatures living with me currently, and I certainly know my place – it’s to be woken at 4am to feed/let in/let out/ just give them some fuss. Of course when one curls up purring for a cuddle it is lovely 🙂
23 June 2017 at 11:07 #59484Having finally rewatched, could the Doctors seemingly reckless attempt at self-sacrifice have anything to do with the fact he knew Missy was most likely watching?
An example of being willing to sacrifice yourself to save others rather than the opposite? A test – if he’d been able to carry out his plan, would Missy have come to his aid – one hell of a risk to take.
I do still think Missy is genuinely trying her best, just because that will make it more tragic when whatever is going to happen happens 🙁
21 June 2017 at 10:46 #59431@missy I worked in retail for a while. Gives you a terrible view of the human race and I wasn’t exactly sociable before that.
I prefer cats.
21 June 2017 at 10:40 #5943020 June 2017 at 13:20 #59347He does seem determined to sacrifice himself with very little regard for the fact there will be another monster along next week, and given that he hates staying in one place for too long… 🙁
I suspect Missy might well be trying her best, but I too thought of Ohila and ‘hope is a terrible thing on the scaffold’. No wonder he’s looking weary, all that hope and doubt.
On the positive side, I really enjoyed this (I am rather fond of Survival as well) and Nardole in his dressing gown made me think of Arthur Dent.
17 June 2017 at 12:43 #5917316 June 2017 at 23:43 #5915912 June 2017 at 23:11 #5898712 June 2017 at 21:57 #58984Oh I wrote a long post and it seems to have not made it through the ether. Damn.
OK, short, rough version.
Losing Clara – different to the other losses in that in a way she died three times – the Doctor failed to save her three times – and was willing to risk her life to save him.
(by the way I don’t believe there ever was a ‘Clara Prime’, I think they were all Claricles, and that Missy bringing Clara and the Doctor together was less clever than Missy thought as they had to meet for Clara to jump into the Doctor’s timestream and create herself. I like her ‘ending’ – she finally gets to go off and live her own life).
I suppose his lack of effort to save the child in Thin Ice could be because of needing to stay in one piece to watch the Vault, but that didn’t stop him from risking everything to save Bill in Oxygen. Unless it was Bill he was trying to look after – if he’d got himself properly killed what would have happened to Bill?
Or perhaps he’s just been spending too much time with Missy, possibly looking for a hairbrush as neither of them seem to have been near one for a while!
but then each Doctor in the Hell Bent castle has no memory of the previous Doctor.
He seemed to remember something, given that when he has his blue screen of death moment he says something like ‘you don’t understand Clara, I can remember it all. Every time.’
7 June 2017 at 13:54 #58684@nick could well be, but I’ve seen that once and it was 20 years ago while Deus Ex is one of my
obsessionshobbies!7 June 2017 at 12:05 #58677I don’t agree with everything said in this link but it’s an interesting look at the philosophy of the ‘Trilogy’ truth in fidelity… (& it makes me appreciate it a bit more as a trilogy, even though it’s slagging it off a bit)
@wolfweed Thanks for the link, it’s reminded me of something – anyone else here play the Deus Ex games? Because on the seeing the room the Doctor was kept in I was reminded of the room in Deus Ex Human Revolution that a certain character was kept in after being kidnapped and made to work for the bad guys (is that a spoiler? Does it matter for a six year old game?). It’s the chairs. And the whiteness, obviously.
6 June 2017 at 10:34 #58622also his comment to Missy in front of Bill: “here’s the only other TL”
@thane I’ve only watched it once but didn’t he say ‘this is the other last of the Time Lords’
5 June 2017 at 17:38 #58579@nerys another issue is that if everyone remembers all the attempted invasions and catastrophes the Earth in Doctor Who will move further and further away from real life which would be problematic for any story set in the present.
3 June 2017 at 13:03 #58416Can’t remember if this has been mentioned but just watched again and Bill’s jacket changes colour. It’s pink when she’s with Penny then blue later. Google tells me it’s reversible, but that doesn’t mean the change isn’t significant. She was wearing it when UN people turned up, a bit odd if with a potential crisis going on she’d said ‘yep, I’m ready to go… oh no wait, let me just turn my jacket inside out.’
Also the Doctor describing the Earth in the future as being as ‘dead as the moon’ – he knows the moon isn’t dead. And he said similar in Oxygen about Bill, again knowing that she wasn’t dead.
Thinking about the Monks ‘neediness’, could it be that love is what allows the link they mention to be made, something to do with brain chemistry or psychic receptiveness perhaps?
30 May 2017 at 19:34 #5828930 May 2017 at 17:41 #58280@missrori of course Clara was willing to risk the universe because she wanted Danny back. Bill giving away the Earth to save the Doctor at least makes sense from the point of view that the Doctor has saved the Earth repeatedly and without him, even if the Monks did give up, who will save the planet from the next lot who fancy a second home in the uncharted backwaters of the unfashionable end of the western spiral arm of the Galaxy?
I’m unclear why the Monks would give up. They’ve already gone to a lot of trouble and they’re surely in it for the long haul. Why would one small setback deter them?
This. They would just find the next point of imminent doom. They didn’t look like they were giving up, they looked like they were going back to check out their simulations.
@brewski I don’t think the Doctor has a smartphone
Missy is clearly going to be the wildcard the monks couldn’t predict, and I think even more now that the Doctor put the Veritas in the simulation. He’s got the whole thing in the email his sim version sent…
Could Missy being in the vault be pre-planned as well? (His dishevelled look is still bothering me….). Though if they could predict his blindness even though it happened off world and in the future how did they miss Missy’s incarceration?
28 May 2017 at 22:39 #58185@jimthefish I thought the barely moving mouths added to their creepiness. They’re not human, they’ve just taken on that shape. They’re quite possibly not even speaking out loud.
As for the quick surrender, if you believed the end of the world was imminent and the aliens weren’t the cause but could prevent it (even at a cost) how many missiles would you throw at them after your first attempt had been swatted aside fairly effortlessly?
28 May 2017 at 22:23 #58184But your average domestic moggie and fancy breeds? They would be very quickly ‘selected out’.
@pedant, many individuals would, and of course many domestic cats are spayed/neutered so it wouldn’t matter from a gene pool point of view. But I’ve certainly had cats that were fantastic hunters (unfortunately for the smaller creatures in our local wildlife) and it’s not unknown for domestic moggies too turn feral.
@missrori I didn’t see it as Bill acting selfishly. I thought it was that she felt partly responsible for the Doctors blindness.
Also wouldn’t the creatures just pick another moment of imminent destruction? The Doctor would have been dead so who would have stopped them?
Or if not then, the next bunch of aliens who like the look of the Earth as it appears to be a popular target.
@jimthefish I didn’t think the Doctor was that gung go. I saw it more as ‘it won’t work but you might as well try’, give the military types something to do. Not had a second watch yet though.
28 May 2017 at 15:00 #58159@pedant I suspect cats would do OK without us overall – obviously plenty of individuals wouldn’t – and the next generation would all be feral.
27 May 2017 at 15:24 #58075<p style=”text-align: left;”>Or at least Missy said the Daleks told her about Darillium. The Daleks have never struck me as being the gossipy type!</p>
23 May 2017 at 13:46 #57934Meanwhile at io9’s review, the critic noted that the Doctor’s shabby coat in the Missy scenes is the same one he wears in the regeneration tease clips in the trailer for Series 10…
@missrori that is probably why I was wondering about how disheveled he looked. There was something nagging at me about that and there’s the explanation.
Which now makes me wonder what happened when and in what order?
21 May 2017 at 18:44 #57784@wolfweed I think we knew he’d killed a lot both from his reaction to Bill questioning him and the comment made in ‘Hell Bent’ about the Doctor in the Time War: “The first thing you will notice about the Doctor of War is he’s unarmed. For many, it’s also the last.”.
21 May 2017 at 09:22 #57760<p style=”text-align: left;”>@pedant thank you, will have to watch again when I’m more awake!</p>
20 May 2017 at 23:41 #57739Too many questions!
Why did the book exist? Where did it come from? Was it a bug in the programming or deliberately placed?
What exactly was Missy being executed for? Why did the Doctor look so scruffy and dusty?
20 May 2017 at 17:04 #57703@missy there are a few actors I like and I am gutted that Capaldi is leaving. I don’t think I’ve been this upset about a regeneration since Tom Baker left and my parents had to reassure me that it was OK this new guy was still the Doctor!
And yes, I’m dreading the final episode.
19 May 2017 at 13:57 #57659@missy well I have a bit of a thing for Richard Armitage who played Lucas so that may explain why I didn’t mind his character 😀
18 May 2017 at 11:27 #57616 -
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