[DrBen @replies]

@purofilion @arbutus @jphamlore

Puro, you will certainly enjoy the Dirk Gently series, and you will enjoy them more when you learn that the basic story for the first book is taken in large part from Adams’ unfinished Doctor Who script Shada.  I fully agree with Arbutus that, as much as I love Hitchhiker’s Guide, the Dirk Gently series is a little better.  Do *not* watch the BBC series which, while charming in its own way, bears no resemblance to the book.  Please read the books immediately and report back. 😉

Arbutus, I fully agree with your characterization of Bach as the working man.  There’s a wonder statue of him outside of the Thomaskirche in Leipzig, and his vest (waistcoat for you Brits) is buttoned up all wrong and one of his pockets his hanging out.  I can fully imagine him at a table full of manuscripts working out that Sunday’s cantata at the last minute.  And it is completely true that, without Mendelssohn’s insistence in the 19th century that Bach was a genius, he would have been completely forgotten.  (For example, the Brandenburg concertos were a job interview – he sent the manuscripts to the Elector of Brandenburg while seeking a job as music-master there, and not only did he not get the job, but the manuscripts were discovered, still in their sealed envelope, after the Elector’s death.)

As to the topic at hand, I remain an unrepentant Twelve fan and can’t wait to see what he’ll do next.

New theory on the tarot — This series could simply be progressing by the numbers.  Skipping 0, because the Doctor is *always* the Fool, 1 is the Magician (Magician’s Apprentice), 2 is the High Priestess (Witch’s Familiar), 3 is the Empress (Under the Lake), and 4 is the Emperor (Before the Flood).  No question who the Magician and HPs are — Clara (or Cass) could be the Empress, and the Fisher King (or the Doctor again) could be the Emperor.

What is fun about this is that there are 12 episodes in the regular season, and then the 13th is the Christmas Episode.  Card number 13 in the Major Arcana is Death.  Bye bye Clara.  (Yes, disclaimer, Death doesn’t always mean death, but work with me here.)

[DrBen @replies]

@purofilion – The Bach thing in Dirk Gently is a bit difficult to explain out of context.  Time traveler hears beautiful alien music, goes back in time, gives it to Bach, timey-wimey.

[DrBen @replies]

@purofilion @arbutus – One of my old music theory professors described Beethoven as the original rock star, and used the Waldstein as an example.  “Can you imagine being at a fancy party in 1804, all dressed up in the latest fashions, and in walks this crazed lunatic, 33 years old, dressed in dark colors with crazy disheveled hair, and sits down at the piano and plays that?  It would have been a scandal!”

Still one of my favorite pieces, just for that image.

[DrBen @replies]

Still digging through the thread (was out of town this weekend and only watched the ep last night), but I’m surprised no one has mentioned that the Beethoven bootstrap paradox from the beginning is more or less what happens with Bach in Dirk Gently’s Holistic Detective Agency.  I suspect that former DW story editor Douglas Adams is never far from the current staff’s mind.

[Also, loved the episode for the most part, loved the rock guitar and souped-up theme, loved the professorial intro – still cogitating on the larger issues of what it means for Clara, what is the significance of the Fisher King, etc.]

[DrBen @replies]

@kharis – Good call with Missy’s pointed stick and the Queen of Wands!

[DrBen @replies]

Oh and a couple more things.

On the subject of whether the Doctor knew what he was doing from the beginning (including, why did he tell about Gallifrey, how could he know Missy would save him at the right time, etc.) — I’ve always gotten the message that the Doctor makes it up as he goes along, and then, when everything works out, he convinces others that that was his plan all along.  It’s equal parts quick thinking and serendipity.  So he may have been entirely sincere up to a point, and then shifted.

Re Sonic Sunglasses – They didn’t bother me all that much, but I did cringe a bit at the phrase “wearable tech.”  It seems a little silly for the Doctor to be topical — he has access to all space and time, so an already-dated 2015 phrase like “wearable tech” sounded a bit off to me.  It would be like the Fourth Doctor listening to disco or the Seventh Doctor talking about the Iran-Contra scandal.

[DrBen @replies]

@ichabod – Completely disagree.  She’s shut up in horrible, stinky Dalek armor that transforms her into a monster, to the outward eye (and ear).  The Doctor is in a fury because he thinks Clara is dead — so he’s not thinking clearly.  Missy is lying to the Doctor, and Clara knows that the Doctor has old bonds with her, and seems to be believing Missy’s lies — and Clara panics.  Her being unable to think of thinking “open” reads very clearly as *panic*, not stupidity.  I’m a reasonably capable and intelligent person, and I’ve had my brain choke on me in much less horrifying situations.  So I do buy it.

Not just that, but she’s got wires going into her flippin’ brain that are connecting her to the Dalek Dodge-Em.  We’ve been told that Daleks operate by focusing emotion rather than suppressing it, so I totally find it believable that the initial fear and panic she experienced at the Doctor not recognizing her in the Dalek get-up is completely multiplied and enhanced by the Dalek tech.  The tech kicks her panic into overdrive which (for an actual Dalek) would presumably cause it to start exterminating all over the place.  For our Clara, it just causes her to yell “it’s me, it’s me, it’s me!” even though she knows it’s making her say “I am a Dalek.”

@phaseshift – Thanks for the nod on the tarot thread.  I enjoyed writing that post, and I’m glad to see that the topic is still coming up.

@kharis – Nice to see another tarot enthusiast!  I totally agree that Clara is the Hanged (Wo)Man at the moment, which is a step in the right direction for her.  While I had her pegged as the Lovers for while last season (with Danny), I think she spent most of her time last season as the Hierophant – the teacher, the control freak.

[DrBen @replies]

So I don’t know my history as well as I should, but what if Missy was a woman *before* she was Roger Delgado, and was in fact the Doctor’s first wife?  The brooch, therefore, could have been a gift to her from the Doctor at the birth of *their* daughter.

It would explain their love-hate relationship, her comments about what is he really running from, and adds special significance to Capaldi’s wedding ring. Just a thought.

[DrBen @replies]

@barnable, you are amazing.  Well played.  (in re Dark Santa, assisted suicide, etc.)

[DrBen @replies]

@spider, I’m pretty sure that was created especially for the teaser, rather than intended to be part of an episode.  I could be wrong, of course.

So my favorite bonkers theory is one that was alluded to briefly by @nerys and others many pages ago.  The tangerine is not only a sign that Santa is real, but that Santa in fact saved the day.  To wit:

It is Christmas Eve, and Santa is doing what he does on Christmas Eve.  He gets to Clara’s house to deliver a tangerine and discovers her being sucked dry by a dream crab.  Being no dummy (and possibly part Time Lord), Santa recognizes the dream crab, knows that his old pal the Doctor must be involved, and that the only way to break someone of a crab-induced dream is to allow oneself to be crabbed (so to speak) and enter the dream.  So Santa thinks about dream crabs until one pops around and hugs his face.

Santa literally drops into Clara’s dream by landing on her rooftop.  He addresses the Doctor’s scorn by telling the Doctor he will be glad of his help before the night is through.  He reappears to save the day in the North Pole dream, and is the catalyst which allows the Doctor and everyone else to realize that they are in fact dreaming.

Being extra careful, Santa keeps a close eye, and breaks into the Doctor’s “old Clara” dream to make sure they get all the way out.  Santa breaks out of his own crabbing just before the Doctor arrives (being magical and whatnot), and leaves a tangerine on her windowsill as a thank-you.

[DrBen @replies]

Very helpful @purofilion – thank you!

Mrs. DrBen and I were huge Buffy fans back in the day, and we’re waiting until DrBen Jr. is 13 before watching that with him (or Firefly, for that matter).  So if Supernatural is more adult than that, we’ll certainly wait.  Thanks!

[DrBen @replies]

Any Supernatural fans?  A number of DW obsessives have told me that Supernatural should be next on my list.

I have heard, however, that seasons 1 and 2 may be too scary for my DW-obsessed 11-year-old.  Any insights?

[DrBen @replies]

For any parents concerned that Santa would turn out to be evil in the Christmas Episode, Steven Moffat puts our minds at ease.

Sure, we all know that Moffat Lies, but I suspect he’s telling the truth about this one.

[DrBen @replies]

@badwulf – I was never sure what age the writers were going for with Ace – she looked to be in her  twenties, but her lines were written as if she was twelve.

I watched Ace’s first appearance not too long ago, and she says she’s 16 or 17, I forget which.  So her acting isn’t too far off for a bratty teenager.

[DrBen @replies]

Welcome @ozitenor !  Another Ben who is a tenor?  Dangerous.  😉

[DrBen @replies]

@fonsini What exactly are you on about?

First off, @phaseshift is more than just “one character” – he’s an important dude around here with a lot to contribute.

Secondly, your conclusions are just plain wrong.  Neither the anti-American jabs or the anti-military jabs are new to this season or to the Moffat era.  The Doctor has expressed antipathy towards UNIT and the military in general since the early days of the show.  And personally, my favorite anti-American jab was (I’m paraphrasing) “Can you imagine the Americans with time travel?  You’ve seen their movies.”

Short version: It’s a British show and it’s ridiculous to suggest that it shouldn’t have a British focus or bias.  Many of us Americans who watch the show are confessed Anglophiles.  But calling that “propoganda” is just silly.  It’s a TV show.

And your claptrap about a “subtle but twisted liberal agenda” suggest that you’re exactly the type of American that Doctor Who is making fun of.  So take your lumps and move on.

[DrBen @replies]

Re Cybermen “deleting emotions” – hat tips to @apopheniac @rob @badwulf @phaseshift and anyone else I missed:

There are a number of possible reasons why Missy et al wanted people to voluntarily delete their emotions before becoming Cybermen.  As @phaseshift says, people have been known to resist Cyber conversion throughout the years.  Missy may have thought that it was their all-too-human emotions that got in the way, and that simply removing their emotions by force would not solve the problem.  Rather, they had to voluntarily agree to let them go.

Although this, from @badwulf, is an excellent theory I hadn’t thought of:

I interpreted this as the Master creating an army for the Doctor using “volunteers”, as the Doctor would probably have had more difficulty taking ownership of a conscript army.

Clever.  Could be.

But I disagree with whoever said that Danny and the Brig did not delete their emotions.  The Doctor explains this pretty clearly, with the excellent (if cheesy) line, “Love is not an emotion; it is a promise.”  The clear implication is that, even after removing emotions from the equation, Cyber conversion cannot override “the promise of a soldier”.  In Danny’s case, that was a promise to love and protect Clara.  In the Brig’s case, it was a promise to protect the world.

[DrBen @replies]

Everyone knows that the only true ginger in Moffat’s life is this one:

 

[DrBen @replies]

@bluesqueakpip @stormintheheartofthesun @mudlark and whomever else:

The boy’s return certainly requires the re-formation of a living human body, since the boy’s own body (a) was killed several years ago and (b) presumably became a Cyberman and exploded in the clouds.  So presumably that’s a capability that can be used again?

On that point, it just occurred to me that there’s a similarity between the boy’s return in “Death in Heaven” and the sister’s (Annabel’s) return at the end of “In the Forest of the Night”.  Perhaps there are larger forces at work here?  Maybe that’s where Orson comes from?

Side note: Nothing would make me happier than the return of River Song, but she’s too much of a free spirit to be an every-week companion.  Still, I hope she turns up from time to time.

@janetteb – If they don’t make a “bigger on the inside” joke about Santa’s bag of toys, there is no justice in the world.

[DrBen @replies]

@pedant I was thinking more along the lines of a Hobbesian “solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short”, but Arendt will do nicely as well. 🙂

[DrBen @replies]

@blenkinsopthebrave On the BBC Doctor Who page there is a short video interview with Ingrid Oliver, talking about playing Osgood and her death at the hands of Missy. She ends the interview by saying (something like): “But hey, it’s Doctor Who, so who knows…” and then smiles knowingly.

One hopes.  Although I watched the video, and I interpreted the smile as more hopeful than knowing.  Plus, if you watch the full Doctor Who Extra video on Death in Heaven (from which the Ingrid Oliver interview is excerpted), Steven Moffat talks about a bit about why Osgood had to die.  Which is not to say that she won’t be back, but it doesn’t seem likely.

[DrBen @replies]

@pedant Something deep about that story and the people in it, but also about storytelling. I think that may be why I am so adamant about the “toll” being essential. But it is tough and deep, not in a S5 metaphorical way (as unutterably wonderful as that was), but direct and real. Someone we expected to get to spend time with, to get to know….isn’t any more.

I thoroughly agree, which I think is why I’m having such a difficult time with this one.  I’m seeing lots of discussion (here and elsewhere) about Danny coming back, or Osgood coming back, etc., and they are of course entitled to their opinions.  And sure, death has never been all that final on DW.  But this was different.  Equal parts brutal and mundane.

We fell in love with Osgood immediately because she was one of us, with her asthma and her official merch and her bonkers theorizing.  But to Missy, she was just another pawn, another way to hurt the Doctor.  Just another nameless victim.  Similarly, Danny was ultimately a nobody — he had to be hit by a car and die in the middle of a telephone call, just so that Missy could find another way to abuse her oldest friend.  (Yes, Danny found redemption in the end, but he basically did nothing but suffer until then.)

I am in the camp of those who consider Doctor Who to be a fantasy show rather than a sci-fi show.  Part of that fantasy feeling is the eternal optimism, the underlying belief in the goodness of all (most) creatures, the breathless wonder at the unknown.  This episode was the opposite — a demonstration that no matter how optimistic you are, some people just die, and die for no good reason, and stay dead.  And sometimes there are no happy endings, and all you can do is lie to the people who care about you in order to spare them from knowing how miserable you are.  For all the magic and questionable science, this episode was about reality.

And it was wonderful.  And painful.  I want to tell myself to shut up already [shuttity up up up] because it’s only a TV show, but I know you lot understand.

[DrBen @replies]

@blenkinsopthebrave I’m glad that I wasn’t the only one to have that reaction.  I’ll be right over, with jammie dodgers and kleenex.

@nerys That remains my theory about the “three months” thing, that she’s dying.  Bleak to bleaker, I know, but for some reason it feels right.  And it definitely adds resonance to the line “Danny and I will be fine.”

[DrBen @replies]

@arbutus He could well have been more of a pseudo-Moffat, telling the audience that the story isn’t really over… Tune in next time! (Although I loved the Doctor’s expression when he saw who was at his door!)

Yeah – I don’t remember exactly what he said, but it was definitely a dig at the audience reaction, something like, “It can’t end like that!  You can’t just leave her like that!” or something.  I’m sure you’re right that it was a message to the audience that the story isn’t really over, but it was just such a WTF moment.

[DrBen @replies]

@pedant Ah yes!  Sage advice for sure, and from the man who knows more about putting his characters through hell and leaving them bereft than almost anyone else. 😉

As the joke goes: Steven Moffat, Joss Whedon, and George R.R. Martin walk into a bar, and everyone you love dies.

[DrBen @replies]

@pedant – That rather begs the question that the story has ended.

Yes, of course.  Still, as a season finale, taken on its own, it was unceasingly sad.

(What, pray tell, is Whedon’s nth rule?  Bring in some comedy after you kill off major characters?  I’m still traumatized about [spoilers re Serenity]) 😉

[DrBen @replies]

I am unsettled.

Don’t get me wrong, it was an excellent episode.  But for me, Moffat’s progression has not been from “Everybody lives” to “Osgood dies” but more like from “Everybody lives” to “NO HAPPY ENDINGS FOR ANYONE”.

Really, this episode was just unceasingly bleak for me.  I’m ok with tragedy, and I’ve been completely ok with 12 departing from the whimsy of 11, but this was a tough one.

Highlights:

• Michelle Gomez’s inspired turn as Missy.  I thought she brought all of the crazy of John Simm, but was ten times as terrifying.  As others have pointed out, her countdown scene was truly chilling.  I very much hope she’s not vaporized.  As things go, of course, it’s always safe to bet that the Master has a way out.
• Samuel Anderson as Danny Pink.  Nothing has gone right for poor PE this season.  A childhood in an orphanage, combat and PTSD, a little taste of happiness, and bam – you’re a Cyberman with an extra soupcon of pain and regret.  The realization when Cyber-Danny looked in the mirror in the morgue was simply tragic, and the look on his face when he removed the mask was just awful.  Anderson is able to convey so much with just a pair of sad eyes and a quiet voice.
• Jenna Coleman has outdone herself.  No question.  Her faux-Doctor scene was bravura – a completely different characterization.
• The Man Himself.  Capaldi shines throughout, but the scene of him silently thrashing the TARDIS console brought me to tears.

Stuff that stabbed me in the heart repeatedly:

• Clara being unintentionally horrible to Cyber-Danny — all that rot about how the Doctor is the only man she’d never lie to.  Way to turn the knife.
• Osgood.  ‘Nuff said.
• The Doctor & Clara’s extended lying session to one another at the end.  Clearly, as in the beginning of the previous episode, Clara had something big and important she needed to communicate.  (For Chrissake, Doctor, SHUT UP and let her talk!)  I don’t believe that it was simply “Danny didn’t come back.”  It was full-on Bad News.

A few unanswered questions:

• Whither Orson Pink, natch.
• How does Clara know so much about the Doctor?  Yes, they’re close, but the Doctor has never said a thing about four wives, and is always reticent to talk about his past.  I had thought it was memories of other Claricles, but she’s not supposed to remember that, right?  I still suspect that she is not entirely who she says she is.
• Why?  Why, dammit, why?!?!  (just in general)

There was nothing in the episode that I disliked, although I will say that the appearance of [you-know-who] over the closing credits was like a record scratch, which totally upset the solemnity of the moment (and not in a good way).  Not least of which because I thought the voice sounded like Russell T. Davies, and had a moment’s (bonkers) thought that they were going full meta, and RTD would burst through the doors of the TARDIS, bitching about what a sad mess Moffat has made of his show.

Not that I thought Moffat has made a mess of the show.  Quite the opposite – I think Moffat is at the height of his powers, and this was an exquisitely crafted episode (and season).  I’m just very sad, that’s all.  And now we have to wait 6 weeks for the hope of some kind of happy ending.

PS – I can’t speak to this, being a Johnny-come-lately to DW, but were any long-time and BG fans bothered by Moffat resurrecting the Brigadier as a Cyberman?  It didn’t bother me personally (to the contrary, I sobbed through that scene), but I could imagine some people being upset by that.  Desecration of the man’s memory, or something.  Just a thought.

[DrBen @replies]

@whisht @bluesqueakpip – I think there’s gotta be *some* call-backs in this episode.  I’m hoping that Psi and Saibre return, and there has to be a tie-in to GUS, right?  I’m also hoping that there’s some reference to “Listen” – either the identity of Orson Pink, or who wrote “LISTEN” on the blackboard, or whatever.

Of course, there are so many things I want from this episode, it’ll be impossible to get them all into a 44 minute show.  Is this one going to be longer?

[DrBen @replies]

@thebrainofmoffat – No, it wouldn’t. -_- Pregnancy makes for good drama, most women have children, and the best time to have a child is in one’s 20′s. We know that Clara likes children, and she’s in the latter half of her 20′s, if I recall, so it’s a good, realistic, time. I would like to see this kind of complaint about Moffat disappear, because it’s making a mountain out of a something that’s not even a molehill, and assuming that the writer is trying to propogandize. The only problem I would have with a Clara pregnancy would be that Moffat just used pregnancy as a plot device with the preceding companion — we don’t need another pregnant companion so soon, if only because it would seem “old hat”, as it were, even if something entirely different became of it.

It’s not a complaint about Moffat, because it’s only conjecture.  Seriously though, you don’t think that a showrunner having two consecutive female companions getting knocked-up would say something about that showrunner’s views on women?  Personally, I don’t think Moffat is sexist, and have defended him against such accusations before.  And I don’t think it’s an issue here, because I don’t think Moffat is going to do it.  But I think two pregnancies in a row would be problematic.

You’ve actually hit on the bigger point, which is that, sexism aside, two pregnant companions in a row would just be lazy writing.

[DrBen @replies]

@bluesqueakpip @badwulf – Oh, were Craig and Sophie unmarried?  Never mind then.

[DrBen @replies]

Not to mention that weird thing in the TV Movie where he’s basically a snake who can possess people.

[DrBen @replies]

@bluesqueakpip – Something else just occurred to me.  As DW is still ostensibly a family show, there’s no way that Moff could get away with suggesting that Danny and Clara engaged in pre-marital sex.  After all, Amy got pregnant on her wedding night.

I don’t think there’s any particular significance about “Hell” – I think the whole point was to make the “go to Hell” joke.

I also agree with your take on Clara’s phone call.  I think it was a day or two after “In The Forest of the Night”, and she’s planning to tell Danny “The Truth” (whatever that is).  As you say, the clothes change signifies the passage of time.

[DrBen @replies]

I’m still against a Clara pregnancy and will be disappointed if that is the case.  It would suggest (after Amy) that Moff believes that women are just baby-making machines.

I’m sticking to my “three months to live” theory (dark though it is).

[DrBen @replies]

@tennantmarsters2013 — There’s a lot of speculation as to whether Rupert (Danny) and Orson are the same dude in the “Listen” thread.  Check it out!

[DrBen @replies]

@badwulf – My head asplode.

Just as Clara’s hands in the TARDIS goo took them to Danny’s childhood (her soulmate?), the Doctor’s hands could have taken them to the childhood of the person he has known the longest and the closest (his soulmate? frenemy?).

There are so many questions that I want answered this week:

• Who wrote “LISTEN” on the chalkboard?
• Who was the Woman in the Shop / who placed the newspaper ad in “Deep Breath”?
• What is the Nethersphere really?
• What is the deal with the sister reappearing in the hydrangeas?
• Who is Orson Pink really?
• What was Clara going to tell Danny at the beginning of “Dark Water”?
• How did the Master escape Gallifrey and regenerate?
• etc. etc. etc.

I don’t think many (if any) of these questions will be answered this week, [potential spoiler removed].  I could be wrong, but I think we’re going to have to wait until the Christmas Episode and future seasons to get some of these answers.

[DrBen @replies]

@pedant: Oh, this is just glorious. All the ARSE you need in one handy place.

[DrBen @replies]

@bluesqueakpip – Anyway, the answer is that The Time Lady Formerly Known As The Master doesn’t want to kill the Doctor. He always would have been rather disappointed if he’d actually succeeded in killing the Doctor (he said as much in Survival). She wants to play complex games with the Doctor – especially ones that involve the Doctor being tied up, or strapped down, or gagged … 

Indeed.  It’s the common trope of the Hero and the Nemesis.  The Nemesis is defined by his/her relation to the Hero, and often they are viewed as two sides of the same coin.  There cannot be one without the other.  My favorite example is Peter Pan and Captain Hook – if one ever really defeated the other, they would have no more reason to exist.  (Or Robin Hood and the Sheriff of Nottingham – foreshadowing?)

Point being, the Master (Missy) doesn’t want the Doctor dead.  She wants him to always be there to witness her insane schemes.  That explains why the Master’s plots never seem all that thought out – rule the world, or whatever.  Because the only purpose is to attract the attention of the Doctor.

Apropos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJJW7EF5aVk

[DrBen @replies]

@badwulf Thank you!

[DrBen @replies]

Thank you @badwulf – this is wonderful!  I have added my ratings (clearly, I haven’t seen much in the way of BG yet).  I guess that now I can statistically confirm (science!) that the 11th Doctor is My Doctor (although 12 may surpass him after this week).

Are the category averages viewable somewhere?  I didn’t see them.

[DrBen @replies]

Also, when I mentioned to my wife the “THREE MONTHS” thing and @spider ‘s theory that she’s pregnant, my wife shook her head and said “nah, she’s dying.”  (As in, three months to live.)

This would add additional resonance to her scene about how Danny’s death was “boring”.  Imagine traveling all through space and time and then being told that you’ve got, say, inoperable cancer?

This is my new bonkers theory for the Christmas episode.  Bring Kleenex.

[DrBen @replies]

@cathannabel @bluesqueakpip @Margaret-Blaine and others – I am convinced that the “the dead can feel” thing is a lie.  It is all part of a manipulation by Missy and 3W to convince you to press that DELETE button and consent to being made a Cyberman.  (Note: I’m not sure why voluntary consent is preferable to just converting people against their will, but maybe they get more successful conversions from willing participants?)

In fact, the whole experience is designed to convince you to leave the world being and rid yourself of emotion.  I suspect that the kid that Danny killed is not really there — maybe a “hard light hologram” based on a scan of Danny’s memory — but rather is there to exacerbate his guilt.  Then, they convince you that you’re going to be cremated, and it’s going to be a horribly painful experience for you, and BAM, you want to press the button.

It would be too on-the-nose for DW to take a stand on something as fundamental as what happens after death.  My theory is that certain susceptible people are targeted by Missy and 3W and transported there (where?) at the instant of death, leaving behind a fake body.  This leaves the actual afterlife a mystery, as it should be.  And I think Danny was specifically targeted to attract the Doctor – that’s why Missy “chose” Clara in the first place (maybe).

At this point, it seems unlikely that Missy was the Woman in the Shop.  Moff is holding on to that reveal for a little while longer.

[DrBen @replies]

Oh. Em. Gee.  My head asplode.

i need more time to process, but we were on the edges of our seats the whole time.  The Master wasn’t my first choice for Missy’s identity, but it was fun and a great reveal.  Lots of tears when Danny said “I love you” the last time, with the realization that he wasn’t saying more because he didn’t want Clara to come after him.  (What a guy!) And lots of screams of NO as his finger hovered over the “delete” button.  And the first cliffhanger since I’ve been watching the show in real time – ack!

So, not much was explained.  I don’t think the people at 3W were dead at all – they’re transported or something at the moment of death to be turned into Cybermen.  Even the Master doesn’t have the power to take over the Afterlife.  But maybe I’m wrong – what about the boy Danny killed?  (Man, that was a hard scene.)  Ok, more coherent thoughts tomorrow.

[DrBen @replies]

@TheCrackInTheWall – I liked them.  Robot of Sherwood was silly fun, and the Caretaker was necessary to establish parts of the Clara/Danny dynamic.  Neither are my favorites of the season (those go to Listen and Time Heist), but they’re good episodes.

My primary complaint with Into the Dalek (the only episode I actively disliked) is that none of it made any sense from a motivational context — If you’re at war with the Daleks, why take an injured one onboard?  Once you’ve determined that it’s gone “good”, why try to fix it?  And why didn’t the Doctor realize that once he succeeded in fixing it, they would have a killing machine on their hands?  Just stupid.

My only issue with Kill the Moon was that I was half paying attention while doing something for work and it didn’t thrill me, although Clara’s outburst at the end was great.

Also – LOVE that 9th Doctor tribute.  Man I miss him.

[DrBen @replies]

@TheCrackInTheWall – You are, of course, entitled to your opinion.  I want to point out however – as @pedant did eloquently and in greater detail – that much of what you complain about in Moffat’s style is precisely what many of us likely about the show under his supervision.  As much as I enjoyed the first four seasons, I was getting tired of the disconnected “Monster of the Week” episodes that were essentially (a) meet a monster, (b) run away from the monster, (c) figure out something clever and hand-wavey to defeat the monster.  I think Moff’s tenure has expanded the potential of the show considerably.

Also, put me in the camp of those who say that this season is the best yet.  Only two stinkers in my opinion (Into the Dalek & Kill the Moon) which is a pretty low percentage of stinkers for a season.  The season arc mystery has been tantalizing without taking over the overall story.  The plots have provided avenues for interesting character development.  Capaldi’s performance is a joy to watch.  Clearly, the Danny/Clara relationship is worth of discussion, as we are talking it to death here.

Then again, you shouldn’t trust me, because my other favorite is season 6 (River Songapalooza), so what do I know? 🙂

[DrBen @replies]

@bluesqueakpip – Indeed.  I just meant that the “let’s give the person hearing voices medication instead of listening to what they have to say” is a common storytelling device.  There were those upthread who suggested or implied (unless maybe I’m misreading) that it was dangerous or irresponsible of the Doctor to suggest that everyone who hears voices should stop taking their medication.

I fully agree that, when faced with a 12-year-old girl whose sister has just disappeared and is acting strangely, medication should not be the first solution.

My over-arching point is that Doctor Who is not a show about real-world child psychology any more than it is a show about real-world lunar science. 😉

[DrBen @replies]

@bluesqueakpip @phileasf @besd1 – This is not an unusual trope in fantasy.  Everyone assumes that the person who sees things/hears voices/acts weird is actually insane/ill/whatever, when in reality she (usually she) is just more sensitive/talking to ghosts/in touch with aliens/whatever.  It’s a version of the “You Have to Believe Me” trope.

The Doctor said what he said, but really, no one is suggesting that every proto-schizophrenic in the world is actually talking to tree-fairy creatures.  The use of this trope on Maebh doesn’t suggest that mental illness isn’t a real thing, or that actual mentally ill people should stop taking their medication altogether.

Now, there is a real-world debate about whether, by medicating some forms of mental illness, we are killing off a generation of creative geniuses (see, e.g., Kay Redfield Jamison’s excellent Touched By Fire), but that’s not really what we’re talking about.

[DrBen @replies]

@wolfweed – If you find yourself transported to the Nethersphere, please report back (in the spoilers thread, of course).

[DrBen @replies]

@blenkinsopthebrave – Thank you!

[DrBen @replies]

@blenkinsopthebrave – Great idea!  OK, let’s see….

Missy runs an organization that somehow capitalizes on death (mining some sort of energy during the transformation, or something).  She has somehow latched on to the Doctor (whose constant companion is Death) and realizes that she can greatly exceed her prior numbers by keeping an eye on him, since people die around him almost constantly.  And, as a Time Lord, he has the ability to “die” over and over again – repeat customer!

She needs some way to get to the Doctor, so she “creates” Clara (one way or another) as someone with the capacity for a great many spectacular deaths.  She contrives a way to be the Woman in the Shop, and gives Clara the Doctor’s phone number (why does she have it? no idea).  Having created Clara, she is able to spy on them through Clara’s eyes.  She even manipulates the Great Intelligence into going after her in multiple timelines, revealing to him the location of the Doctor’s grave, so that she (through Clara) can gain access to the Doctor’s timestream.

When Clara jumps into the timestream, she becomes (as designed) a multitude of Claricles, each with their own horrible death that feeds into Missy’s systems, and gains access to all of the Doctor’s previous deaths.

At the beginning of next week’s episode, Clara will die (again) and be transported to the Nethersphere to be mined by Missy.  The Doctor and Danny will go after her, and Clara will be revealed for what she really is, and have a phenomenal freak-out about it.  Hilarity will ensue.  To be continued.

[DrBen @replies]

@cathannabel — Oooh interesting.  Maybe someone is controlling her?  Making her lie at important moments?

@Margaret-Blaine – Good call.  And in Asylum of the Daleks she was lying to herself…

[Author]

Posts