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7 June 2015 at 07:22 #40544
Hope you have a good time at the event. I’m afraid that I’m not going to be able to play. š
I think that must be a clear signal that the run is going to start on August Bank Holiday weekend like last year. Saturday 29th August. A twelve week run puts you at the convention on the day of the finale. I wonder if the last two parter will act as a thematic celebration of the AG years? Hope you can give us your thoughts on the event. Some of the content really does sound very interesting (the writers Q&A workshop for example).
Oh yes – by the way, looking at the Calender this year, Halloween actually falls on a Saturday this year. That’s going to be irresistible to someone who like tying stories to the calender year, isn’t it?
7 June 2015 at 07:18 #40543(since all my other friends think I am mad).
Ah well, as the Seventh and Eleventh both said:
āAnybody remotely interesting is mad in some way or another.ā
Welcome to the site. You don’t have to be mad to post here, but it can certainly make you more interesting!
6 June 2015 at 16:05 #40533I wrote the original post not having seen the resolution of Penny Dreadful, but I came away from the resolution a bit happier. I’ve watched the first ep of the second series, and it is interesting and hopefully some of the issues which I thought were a bit ropy may have been addressed. It’s well worth a look.
Just to echo @jimthefish, the main reason I wrote the post was that the film was no advertisement for the League comic book, which is marvelous. There are a couple of aspects in the film that I thought caught the tone of the original (the torment of Jekyll/Hyde for example) but it really couldn’t do the source material justice. One of those projects that you think Alan Moore is quite right to be distrustful of adaptations. But then you get something like V for Vendetta which I think does it pretty well, retelling a story for current times but keeping the philosophy intact.
6 June 2015 at 15:23 #40531Some interesting responses to my āglowing arseā (thanks @jimthefish !) post. I just wanted to say that with respect to:
@purofilion
Then thereās Farscape as Phaseshiftās suggestion soĀ Iāll eventually watch that too.
And @jimthefish
Maybe MrĀ @PhaseshiftĀ could be prevailed upon for a blog to get us all going.
Iād be happy to lead the choir of people who wanted to explore that Universe with series blogs much like Jim did with Buffy/Angel (Iām getting off easy here ā I’d have to do five blogs, he had to do twelve).
If anyone hasn’t seen Farscape (and can I point out that many repeats on UK stations butcher the episodes as @fatmaninabox pointed out a while ago) Iād urge them to give it a go, preferably by buying the thing on DVD or accessing it from uncut sources. The fact that in 2015, a satellite station is cutting more from the episodes shown after 9pm than the BBC did back in the 90s in the 6pm slot is actually pretty disturbing. Iām not sure if @bluesqueakpip or @janetteb have ever seen it or not as their responses didnāt mention it, so here is my sales pitch.
Itās often said that Buffy is a big influence on the modern era of Doctor Who. Iād agree, with a slight note of caution that a lot of the things that the modern show is doing were developed about the same time in spin-off media like books and comics as Buffy was emerging. Iād suggest that Farscape is a smaller bit of the DNA of the RTD series but its similarities to the SM run could perhaps be more significant.
– The season concept of the āBig Badā doesnāt really exist in Farscape. Characters who want our heroes captured or dead emerge, but everyone if convinced they are doing the right thing.
– The streak of āFairytaleā is strong in this one. When you have an episode title like āKansasā where the lead character returns to Earth ,the area this series is playing on becomes more apparent (the rest being āweāre not in Kansas anymore, Totoā.
– The lead characters are really well realised. The core cast shifts and moves but their mutual dependency is very engaging. You can see echoes of other shows tropes in them, like DāArgo who is a bit like a Klingon (all noble honour, fighting and stuff) but who is a rebel against his own culture and who can develop a weird argumentative bromance with a bloke from āerfā. Great roles for all the women on the show as well.
– The Jim Henson Workshop creature designs are extraordinary in their diversity. Couple them with effective voice work and creations like Rygel (the emperor slug), and Pilot (a symbiotic link to their sentient ship) come to life.
– It really does have a distinctive voice. Which is something that should be celebrated.
Looking back at my mentions of Farscape I saw @ichabod had mentioned she turned away from the series because she thought it may have been focusing too much on ātortureā. I didnāt respond then (apologies), but there is a point to driving the crew (and John in particular) to madness. The series doesnāt shy away from the accumulative damage this does. Only someone who is truly MAD can attempt resolution in the way that Farscape plays out.
It is the first example of fan power in an internet age. The day after the show was cancelled a media savvy campaign to get an extension (and closure) launched, with effective tackling of print and digital media. We got Peacekeeper Wars, which is actually far less of a compromise than Fireflyās Serenity.
So, if any of you are in the mood, let me know. Here is one of the clips that bombarded the internet in the Save Farscape campaign. Because aesthetics are informative, especially when they are this bonkers and because any show that can make the 1812 Overture āa thingā deserves to be watched.
āLook upward and share the wonders Iāve seen.ā
– John Crichton, Series 4 intro.
6 June 2015 at 12:39 #40528@purofilion (and others)
To be fair, I think that response was more to do with the idea that Clara and Amy were very similar by using an extract from Beast Below. The reason it was considered an outlier was that Amy seems to have a view of the Doctor that doesn’t really follow the flow of her story from the Eleventh Hour. Itās too soon for Amy to have the insights she does, and I think thatās the part that SM wishes he could revisit.
I think itās fair to say that the plight of the Space Whale, and the Pertwee Serial The Silurians both show that the Doctor struggles when presented with situations where questions of Morality (and the right to exist) are in conflict. Both rely on an associate basically solving the story for him. In Beast Below, the sudden intuitive leap of Amy, and in The Silurians the Brigadier takes the decision from the Doctor by blowing up the Silurians. The Doctor likes his foes more mustache twirling or be cast as intergalactic bastards.
What continues to surprise me about this story is the element that continues to see a āPro-lifeā sentiment in it, when the aspect of Choice is pretty central to the story. It clearly is an abortion allegory.
Effectively we/The Doctor discover the moon is an egg about to hatch. The Doctor canāt see the future, itās in flux. Potential futures can be read as (A) this could be the most wonderful thing in the world, or (B) it could be the end of it . Itās an analogy for any woman/couple who find themselves with an unexpected pregnancy. Either way, we have a complex moral question and The Doctor, while having a historic fondness for humans has a care issue in this regeneration (āshe cares, so I donāt have toā). He doesnāt have an axe to grind against an unborn creature though.
So he bugs out of the equation. The symbol of Patriarchal Morality (am I right, Sisters?) devolves his decision to three woman, the main one being the person he is personally relying upon to āCareā. @scaryb, @Purofilion and others have mentioned the Fates and Macbeth’s Witches. As archetypes go itās a good observation. I was thinking of Terry Pratchettās version of the three witches. The Maiden, the Mother and the ā¦.. other one (One of the strands in his books is that everyone is careful not to call Granny Weatherwax the crone. That sort of behaviour may lead you to live out your life sitting in a pond thinking you are an actual frog. As a convention, itās useful, because Iām not about to refer to Hermione Norris as a crone). But you have the youthful naivete of Courtney (Maiden), the world weary cynicism of Lundvik (Other One) and Clara, who is really the center of the choice as to whether she gets to birth this baby or not.
And at this time, in these circumstances, and ignoring the wishes of abstract people on the planet who donāt really have to decide and take the action, she makes her decision. Itās a choice. She can make that choice. Thatās what choice is. The idea that a parable for a Pro-Choice argument can only end in the Choice being death is a pretty fucked up minddset.
Should Doctor Who tackle stuff like this? Is it relevant? Well ā thatās the debatable point. It is an internationally show now, and the morality of abortion isnāt a settled issue even in the UK or territories like the US and the Republic of Ireland. Sections of out current Governing Party would dearly like to role back the availability and extension of choice, so on the whole, yes. Having the traditional voice of moral authority back out of trying to influence the decision and trusting those involved is a good message. He’s Pro-Choice.
Back later, with some observations on Science and where the hell Gallifrey might be!
5 June 2015 at 17:53 #40520Anybody watching āPenny Dreadfulā? Itās one black bouillabaisse of a show, and some discussion has arisen about it being centered on a female character, Vanessa, and her Very Weird Problems.
I watched the first series and wrote a bit about it on the last thread here (mainly talking about some similarities with the League of Extraordinary gentlemen comic book (and not the film)). I’ve got recordings of the first four of the second series and will try to indulge soon. Eva Green is brilliant as Vanessa.
I noticed your mention of EC comics and the Comics Code. Interesting that the League books were written by Alan Moore, and that his run on DC’s supernatural Saga of the Swamp Thing was the first major run that saw one of the publishers say “to hell with this”. It’s rightly well regarded and recommended.
5 June 2015 at 17:39 #40519Sounds like The Face of Evil to me. Xoanon was a computer who achieved sentience and its new personality was fragmented by an encounter with the Doctor, leading him to suffer a multiple personality disorder. The confrontation you remember sees the Doctor meet him, realising what heās done. The Doctor proclaims himself to be the Doctor. The tortured response is āThen Who am I?ā
Itās also the story that introduced Leela. You can watch the clip of the confrontation on the BBC YouTube Channel here to see if it rings any bells:
5 June 2015 at 17:28 #40518In the context of what @bluesqueakpip and @pedant have been discussing, Iād probably recommend a low budget sci-fi horror comedy called Attack the Block. The āBlockā is a South London Estate that sees itself as the centre of an alien incursion. It’s defended by a proto-gang led by Moses (John Boyega). Itās pretty entertaining in its own right, with a focus on the odd (to my ears) patois thatās emerged in the āyoofā in the area. One of the story strands is that Moses has come to the attention of an actual gang leader and is being recruited to sell drugs in the neighbourhood.
Its got a couple of Doctor Who connections (with one of them being in Last Christmas). The kids were local to the area filmed in and didnāt have any history of acting. Boyega obviously stood out, as heās gone onto other things and has been cast in the next episode of a small franchise called Star Wars.
30 May 2015 at 15:34 #40418@purofilion @janetteb @jimthefish
Sounds like you are determined to jump down the rabbit hole of Space Opera @Purofilion! If itās any consolation, I too struggled with Firefly when it was first released to the extent I only watched the complete run after I saw the Serenity film. I now think it is the one of the last great runs of Space Opera that are kind of defined by being āanti-Trekā. Itās not a popular viewpoint, this theory but itās amazing when you look at it.
Star Trek ā Blakeās 7. In ā66 Star Trek gets released in the US and lasts 3 series before cancellation when it starts getting shown in the UK in Doctor Who slot between series. Terry Nation is appalled at this happy clappy hippy nonsense and crafts Blakeās 7 as a reaction to it. Many of the first series basic plots are ripped from Trek and skewed. B7 is about an organic ship with a glowing arse populated by a renegade bunch of disreputable people fighting a fascistic Federation ruling Inner worlds and exploiting outer worlds.
Star Trek TNG ā Lots. The Next Generation sees the normal hippy clap-trap augmented by O level psychoanalysis and the 80s obsession with therapy. Itās generally appalling but is a behemoth. Lots of smaller shows from Red Dwarf to Lexx (a big organic ship that goes around eating planets) relentlessly take the piss out its po-facedness.
Deep Space 9 ā Babylon 5. Lots of allegations of people nicking each others ideas as these shows run largely concurrently. Iām ideologically attuned to B5 which has its problems but actually delivers on a lot of its promise for the time. The section where the B5 crew rebel against a fascistic Earth is a homage to B7 as is the fact that the Drahzi have a ship with a glowing arse and is shaped like the B7 ship. The relationship between GāKar and Londo is superb and gives a lie to the fact that writer/creator JMS couldnāt write dialogue for toffee. DS9 looks more glossy, but then again its pilot costs more that the first series of B5. Itās pretty obvious they are looking at B5 and at last we get some decent human characterisation that show other sides to the lead characters in Trek. Trek fans call episodes like āIn the Pale Moonlightā a horrible betrayal of Trekās ideals. This is one reason to celebrate the show, and itās the only one I ever go back to.
Voyager ā Farscape. Oh gods ā Voyager is more than a little bit pants, forgetting anything learned in producing DS9. It is Trek by numbers. In contrast the Australian Farscape, which features a disreputable bunch of characters on the run from fascists in an organic ship (with occasionally glowing arse) is absolutely bonkers. And pretty wonderful.
Enterprise ā Firefly. Enterprise goes back to its āWesternā roots of Wagon Train to the Stars and with a theme segment heralded by a truly insipid Western Song. The first few series are pretty awful. The last couple have a few highlights (but are really continuity porn). Then we get Firefly which basically says āYou want a Space Western. Well, check this outā. A bunch of disreputable people on a ship with a glowing arse fight a fascistic Government.
The Star Trek Universe represents Authority and the triumph of American ideals being exported outwards. The others seem to represent the fight against Authority and individual freedom. For every action a reaction. Usually with a ship with a glowing arse.
Next Year sees the 50th Anniversary of Star Trek. Look that term up on google and youāll find a lot of articles (with an unhappy tone) about what is going on for that year and using Doctor Who as an example of how to do it right. Youād have to have a heart of stone not to laugh because during the 90s, Trek fans could be truly unpleasant as they had three shows on the go and Doctor Who had been cancelled.
But part of me hopes that they get their way, and they get a new series for their own 50th. Because that may mean we get another good show to take a good run up and try to give it a kick in the bollocks.
30 May 2015 at 15:26 #40417Iāve been having definite superhero fatigue
Me too, and considering that we are old comic book followers good knows what the non-comic book follower makes of it all.
Yes – the changes are slightly troubling and you hope they can avoid a S2 downturn in the way that The Walking Dead suffered under similar circumstances. I guess time will tell, but one thing is they are building towards this Defenders concept, and the route forwards may be a little more defined.
The one thing the Affleck movie had, that I wish they had the money to accompany this series, was the visualisation of Murdochs “view” of the world. Some of that stuff was very striking.
30 May 2015 at 14:05 #40415Jim, Iāve watched all the episodes from the new Daredevil and I really do think itās one of the best stabs at doing a superhero run on the TV Iāve seen. It helps that it plays to some extent like a remixed Frank Miller āMan without Fearā. Lots of nice nods to that and some great action set pieces/fight work.
Above all though, the relationships feel right. Especially the one between Charlie Cox as Murdock and Elden Henson as Foggy. The occasional focus on their real life legal work is actually refreshing. Nice to see Deborah Ann Woll getting more work after True Blood (Jessica was actually one of the better vampire characters in that I thought). She has some great scenes towards the end.
DāOnofrio as Wilson Fisk is great as well. Nice spin on mythology with the characters effectively naming each other āthe devil of Hellās Kitchenā and āThe hidden Kingā.
Really looking forward to seeing how it goes in series 2.
26 May 2015 at 08:26 #40371@purofilion
So sorry to hear about your illness. Best wishes.
26 May 2015 at 08:23 #40369Did someone holler for a Mod? Oh, @pedant.
Mods, stop indulging and deal with it.
Fine. Your post has been deleted.
23 May 2015 at 11:12 #40279You’ve made a good argument, but the matter simply isn’t definitive.
I don’t think that @Burrunjor has made a good argument throughout his small tenure at the site. What we have is someone who doesnāt want the Doctor to eventually become a woman. He sees the transformation of The Master into a female form as a step on the way. He doesnāt like it. Proceeding from this basis we have a set of artificial barriers as to why this is wrong, the latest being āthey should have been brothersā.
In my small tribute to Delgado, to mark the 40th anniversary of his death, I said:
Delgado had agreed to one more appearance in a cunning wheeze. He and Jon would leave together inĀ The Final Game, a story which would see the Third Doctor regenerate. Many fan legends surround this ā that it would be revealed that the Doctor and he were brothers, that they were Yin-Yang of the same person. All utter bullshit of course.
The Final GameĀ would have seen an alien incursion organised by the Master in which a time/dimesional portal was activated. To deactivate the portal whoever ventured into it would be exposed to radiation. The Doctor tries, and collapses. The Master pushes him aside, saving him (he would regenerate) but leaving the question ā did the Master seek to save the Doctor or merely possess the power source that created the rift. Both would die, but with the potential to return in another form. You can see elements of that scenario inĀ End of Time, but itās explored more thoroughly in the Mark Gatiss Third Doctor novelĀ Last of the Gaderene.
@jimthefish said, on the Subject of them being brothers:
And Iām glad it never did too as itās such a dull-wittedly prosaic interpretation of their relationship.
Terrance Dicks and Barry Letts (the creators of The Master and the guys who guided Delgado) would fervently agree with this. They hated the sibling idea and have denied it many times. The main reason they disliked it is interesting. āYou can choose your friends, you canāt choose your family.ā They sought moral ambiguity in their relationship. Ultimately, if they were friends they must have shared some moral basis for that friendship at some point? Who changed? Who turned their back on the moral basis for their friendship? The Brothers idea is less engaging from that viewpoint.
The next time the ātheyāre brothersā issue rears its ugly head was in the truly insipid backstory of the Eighth Doctor movie. Seagal commissioned a couple of āback storiesā to help sell the series. The one they ended up going with was that the Doctor and Master were half brothers of the powerful Time Lord āUlyssesā, a direct descendant of Rasillon (yes ā really). The Master had a Gallifreyan mother, the Doctor an Earth Mother.
Shall we take a moment to silently praise the Time Lines that it was only the āhalf-humanā thing that made it to screen?
All of this is generally well recorded. Therefore, when Russell āThe Tā Davies wrote Sound of Drums/Last of the Time Lords, he included this dialogue, and no-one complained:
Jack: So Doctor, who is he? How come the ancient society of Time Lords created a psychopath?
Martha: And what is he to you? A colleague orā
The Doctor: A friend, at first.
Martha: I thought you were going to say he was your secret brother or something.
The Doctor: You’ve been watching too much TV.So ends the idea that they were brothers. The implication that Missy āwanting to shagā the Doctor is indicative of some incestuous vice of Steven Moffatt that has ruined continuity is just another shit artificial barrier.
So now ā letās take another look at the case for the prosecution (as @Burranjor has cast us as āDefendersā)
He doesnāt see her in the line from Delgado. He thinks Osgoodās death was pointless. He thinks her plan with the Cyberman army was stupid, etc.
Osgoodās death ā Iād suggest that her deathĀ is the latest act in a line that goes back to Terror of the Autons. Whenever the Master is introduced to a new generation (and let us remember that in the time that has taken place since Moffat has taken over, a new generation who consider Tennant āthe old re-run Doctorā has joined our viewship) he needs to be set up. To introduce the cruelty and horror of the Doctors āold friendā.
In Terror of the Autons he kills Goodge leaving his shrunken corpse in a sandwich box for the Doctor to find. Itās not brilliant characterisation as it’s a pretty brief introduction, but we learn his colleagues think heās boring and heās a bit obsessive about sandwich contents. Heās harmless, and The Master kills him for simply being there , and to leave a ācalling cardā. In Logopolis the new Master kills Tegans Aunt Lavinia in a similar way. Weāve got to know her a little more. Harmless old lady, killed and left as a calling card.
Simms Master doesnāt really have that moment, because itās delegated to Jacobi, our AG introduction to the Master. He kills the harmless and likeable Chantho because he doesnāt like the way she talks. There isnāt that much made of her being any kind of āmessageā though. And so we see harmless, kind Osgood as the latest in a long line of characters killed by the Master because he can. Apparently disintegrated, but her glasses deliberately crushed and left for the Doctor to find. Just to prove to him that she is that cruel. Itās very Master in an āold schoolā way. The stakes have been raised though. Previous characters of this type were introduced in the story they were killed. Osgood had been around a little longer, raising the stakes.
Missyās plan ā Apparently , Missy offering the Doctor a galaxy conquering force is a stupid idea. Not one the previous Masters would ever do that! Oh, no. Well, certainly not any after Delgado anyway, because this idea is where we suddenly go very Delgado specific. While everyone from Pratt to Simm wanted to humiliate, kill, steal his lives, Delgado was different. Back in Season 8 (how apt) the serial Colony in Space, The Master seeks the ultimate weapon. A star system killer:
Doctor: so, you intend to hold the universe to ransom
Master: Doctor, why donāt you come in with me? We’re both Time Lords, weāre both renegades. We could be masters of the galaxy! Think of it, Doctor, absolute power! Power for good. Why, you could reign benevolently, you could end wars, suffering, disease. We could save the universe.Sounds very similar to the offer Missy made doesnāt it? To lead an army of compassionless soldiers in a conquering battle to enforce āgoodā? Why? Because she wants her friend back. Sheās seeking to re-ignite the shared values that once made them friends. I can summon other references if you wish, point out the amount of times The Master has called out the Doctor for his compassion, or his delight in the Claws of Axos as it looks like he and the Doctor are about to escape in his TARDIS and leave the humans to die. In writing the Missy storyline, SM has reintroduced the defining concept of The Master-Doctor relationship. A story of an old friend who is trying to tempt him to his philiosophy.
I think @Ichobod used the word seduction. Itās a good word if you think of Star Wars, where people are āseduced by the Dark Sideā. Now being a woman that seduction can take a different form, perhaps. The Master (as Delgado) was never above using his magnetic attraction to seduce. For example Queen GalleiaĀ in The Time Monster. He presumably seduced Lucy Saxon at one point.
On any critical level, there is actually far more of the idea of the Delgado Master as conceived back in the 70s in Missy than many of the others in between. Mixed with the madness and obsession of Pratt to Simm. Itās a successful Master redux, in the same way that the Series 4 Davros was a successful Davros redux, mixing the chilling original Davros of Genesis to the screechy hysterical madness of later iterations. As the writers/performers, Moffat/Gomez and Davies/Bleach deserve an enormous amount of credit for doing it in the way they did.
But Gomez has Ladyparts, and therefore some think this is evil. Takes all sorts.
The Defence awaits the prosecution to make more substantive points, or will rest.
16 May 2015 at 18:03 #40129Yes, we probably nixed an official retrospective when we first started the BG reviews. Weird how so many Holmes scripts were chosen at the time. š I thought a blog detailing my perspective on his stories might be an idea, tied in with some observations about fandoms reaction to him, and him to them. Anyone who wants to avoid spoilers of stories not covered can cheerfully ignore it.
What set this off (in me) was that when the Horror channel launched on freeview a while back they showed Ark in Space. Itās a great story. I think everyone knows it is a great story. Iāve watched it until the DVD bled. While I watched it again, I cruised various forums and informed bloggers like Phillip Sandifer to look at opinions.
Basically I learned:
- This story is a classic
- Boy, the Wirrn are scary
- Doesnāt shrink wrap look funny as a special effect
- Isnāt Tomās speech about how great humanity is just brilliant
- How much does Ridley Scott owe Ark in Space for Alien
Now ā these are valuable opinions. However, not one of them seemed to identify or praise the point of the story. Essentially we meet the last humans. Tom makes his marvellous speech about how wonderful we are, and then we unfreeze a few to find out how hollow and dysfunctional theyāve become, Pair-bonded genetic elite. Suppressed emotions ā driven to survive. They delight when they learn that fellow humans have survived even though they slaughtered the Wirrn to do it, and this is a counter attack. Theyāre quite willing to put down the Doctor and entourage for contaminating their gene stock.
In being transmuted to a Monster, Noah gets his humanity back and his last action is to self sacrifice (killing the Wirrn) with a heartfelt last communication to his partner. Brilliantly effective and love saves the day. Except it seems that a lot of fans canāt talk about this. Because love saves the day is something new series writers do. I think itās a shame because Robert Holmes ā who served in the second world war, became disillusioned as a Policeman, saw elements of truth covered up as a journalist before becoming a script writer had a lot to say about our society and his hopes that our virtues could outweigh our vices.
I think as titles go for the two writers I immediately thought about ā The Adventures of Robert Holmes and The Incredible Hulke will probably be forthcoming. Advance apologies for lame puns.
16 May 2015 at 15:20 #40127Just on Robert Holmes, can I agree with @bluesqueakpip s post on ep 1. Heās pretty much my favourite Who writer of the BG years. I quite enjoyed the aspects of the RTD and Moff retrospectives where we looked at recurring tropes and underlying story themes and Iād quite like to do the same for a couple of earlier writers. I think Iāll put some thought into a blog about him because heās a fascinating character in his own right, and his relationship with fandom is well, interesting.
Not only was he dismissive of the Rudzki arm of fandom, he seemed genuinely uncomfortable about the arm of fandom (like me, for instance) who put him on a pedestal. His āIām just a hack script writerā was aimed pretty firmly at us.
On Holmes villains, I actually think heās one of the more complex writers. Often he has a tiered approach, and his ālovable Roguesā are some of the best written, often allied to the Doctor.
Looking at the villains there are those who are more sympathetic. You think of Chang in Talons or Jek in Androzani and there is something about them. In words and acting they are more complex, and you feel are capable of redemption. Importantly they can show compassion which I think is a big thing for Holmes. His irredeemable villains (Greel and Morgus) all have a similar traits, are utterly compassionless and they are pretty mix and match. I think The Master here is one of those. Irredeemable and it explains why they took this approach here. Neither Holmes or Hinchcliffe were particularly interested in bringing the Master back as an ongoing proposition. His appearance here is a means to an end and intended as a transition point for someone else down the line to exploit.
16 May 2015 at 15:14 #40126I fully agree with others who have said that the scenes in the Matrix are the weak part of the story. I imagine that they were thrown in to placate those who might find the lack of action in the first two episodes a bit pokey.Ā
Yes ā one of them was probably me on the first showing. To put this into context this final episode was shown the week before my seventh birthday. Iād quite enjoyed the first couple of parts and loved seeing the Doctor outplay his Gallifrayan opponents. A lot of it went over my head at the time though, and the Matrix scenes beginning in episode 3 was where it all came āaliveā. Seriously, the nightmare scenes, the hunt though the jungle and the cliffhanger left me and the rest of the Primary school Doctor Who community convinced we had just witnessed one of the most thrilling things in the history of TV. š Who has always been a tricky mixture to write for because of the age range. I think Hinchcliffe and Holmes knew the 70s childs mindset pretty well. As an adult I can see the point of the criticism that it seems very Earth centric, but something more abstract probably wouldnāt have engaged me so much at that age. Also ā the Master was involved and making the nightmares Earth based has a nice echo of his hatred of the Doctor and his fascination with Earth, perhaps.
@craig obviously mentioned that that cliffhanger was somewhat controversial. It signalled the end of Philip Hinchcliffe being the producer as moral crusader Mary Whitehouse went to town. Apparently the sight of the Doctor drowning meant that my generation had a week of tortured nightmares to endure. Oh, and weād probably start drowning each other because weād seen it on TV. The only nightmare in this scenario was Mary, who seemed to treat us children like morons. We loved the show at this point ā Tom was our hero and his survival was not in doubt. The only question was how much style everyoneās favourite mad uncle did it with.
Of course it wasnāt just Mary Whitehouse who had a problem with this era. It brings me to @thekrynoidman s post:
Itās quite refreshing to watch a story that focuses entirely on the Doctor amidst the modern stuff that features Ā companions who seem to think the show is about them.Ā
Iām all in favour of celebrating the past, but not so much as a means of making your displeasure with the present apparent. There is a reason for this and The Deadly Assassin is the appropriate story to discuss it on. Whitehouse was a big critic of this era, but her thoughts pale into insignificance at the outrage of another body ā Doctor Who fandom at the time itself.
Seriously ā I was a very young member of the Appreciation Society at the time. I joined it in the same way (and perhaps in my young mind the same expectations) as I had the Dennis the Menace fan club. Reading the material they sent me was an education as it was full of very angry people who hated Robert Holmes, and then later hated Graham Williams. It was fricking bizarre.
The Deadly Assassin polled as the worst serial of its series. The President of the Society Jan Vincent Rudzki wrote a long, ranting article rubbishing it. āWhat has happened to the magic of Doctor Whoā in which he identifies Robert Holmes as the man who has ruined Doctor Who continuity and the show itself. Over a decade later he still couldn’t let it lie. These were his considered thoughts:
ALONG time ago, in what feels like another time, I wrote a review of THE DEADLY ASSASSIN (serial 4P). I did everything I could to tear it to bits.
Thirteen years later I can look back and see how the passage of time has altered my view. The current producer of Doctor Who, John Nathan- Turner, has often spoken of of the dangers of remembering old stories through rose-tinted glasses. To a certain extent I agree. DEADLY ASSASSIN is not the ogre I thought it to be. It even has, dare I say it, a hint of nostalgia about it. There are some aspects which I feel stand the test of time. Certainly the characters are, on the whole, excellent, which is what you’d expect from Robert Holmes. And the story itself is very good – if it hadn’t been written for Doctor Who.
The trouble is that the story was such a radical change from previously established ideas in the series. This was always one of Robert Holmes worst aspects. He had no concept of continuity. He may have used some previously established idea or character; but then he would change tilings around if the plot required it. Consequently we have such strange ideas as Patrick Troughton’s Doctor undertaking missions for the Time Lords in THE TWO DOCTORS (serial 6W) and the “early incarnations” of the Doctor in THE BRAIN OF MORBIUS (serial 4K, see INĀ« VISION issue 12).
Holmes’ other great fault was his inability to see things from an alien point of view; he wrote in human terms. So the reason why the faces in the mind battle with Morbius are meant to be the Doctor’s was because Holmes thought that if someone was as old as the Doctor then he must have had more than one body. But the Doctor isn’t human, so why should he?
Similarly in ASSASSIN, the premise is that any advanced race will decay into a culture stifled by ceremonies and customs. This may be true for Earth, but the Time Lords are not from Earth. They are alien: there is no reason why they should act like humans, or why they should parallel a particular Earth society.
I think this is limited thinking. And ASSASSIN contains other examples: the idea of Rassilon and the legends about him. Why legends? We are dealing with beings who know the secrets of Time. Surely they would be able to look at their own past. I know that if I had the power to look through time I would, at the very minimum, look at great moments in Earth’s past. I think it’s fair to assume that Time Lords can exhibit curiosity. THE WAR GAMES (serial ZZ): “observe and gather knowledge”.
There should be no legends. For while they would obviously not permit anyone to go back and change anything, or allow any communication between Time lords of different time periods, they must be able to look at the past. They had done with the Doctor when they chose his earlier selves in THE THREE DOCTORS (serial RRR). A major part of THE DEADLY ASSASSIN is based on a lack of knowledge where there should be none. This whole idea was obviously put in to make a good story. It did, but it was a little silly.
…Blah, Blah …..
Our next glimpse of the Time Lords was a down-beat, rather silly encounter in TERROR OF THE AUTONS (serial EEE). Surprise surprise, that was written by Robert Holmes.
…Blah, Blah …..
So I always thought of the Time Lords with some degree of awe. They had the power to put force- fields around planets. To be presented with a bunch of doddering old fools was having the carpet pulled from under me. Gold had become fool’s gold.
Perhaps I over-reacted then. But it was from the heart.
AS a story of revenge and survival, it works very well. There is the usual Holmes duo of Castellan Spandrell and Co-ordinator Engin, and a script full of Holmes’ best writing ability. On the whole the plot works, although episode three, while being very clever and nice to look at, is just about the best example of a run-around episode ever. At the end of it the story has hardly moved at all.
Robert Holmes has always liked to include amusing characters in his stories, but why the awful tv commentator Runcible had to be included is anyone’s guess. He provided nothing to the plot. I suppose he exhibited Holmes desire to reduce the Time Lords to Earth-like television viewers. It’s ironic that while Tom Baker was making the Doctor more alien, this story shows his own people riddled with human traits.
Other characters were also rather lacking. Commander Hilred showed a surprising desire to torture the Doctor. On a planet as calm and boring as Gallifrey it would be surprising he would get so far. But then one wonders why there was a Chancellery Guard anyway. What had the Time Lords to fear? If the Guard was a relic of a bygone time, then why real weapons? A new world needs to be thought out properly to be credible. Gallifrey is not: there are too many points about the society shown which don’t hold together.
Goth is another character motivated by human desires. Now he really was boring, a featureless character barely coming alive in the mind-battle with the Doctor, The best character by far was Borusa, reminding me, slightly, of artneifs Doctor. And he ctually managed to act in the aloof manner I expected of the Time Lords, and did not allow emotions to get in the way. The only surprise was when he decided to cover up the near-destruction of Gallifrey. Very silly.
Finally to the Master. I had been told beforehand that Peter Pratt wore a mask, and the whole way through the story I assumed it was. It was a bit of a surprise to discover that it was meant to be his real face. His calling the Doctor to Gallifrey fits in with previous stories when the Master seemed to do his best to involve the Doctor in his schemes. It does however seem strange that, above all the other Time Lords, he was able conveniently to find out the truth about Rassilon. And why he was forgotten by all the other Time Lords? They remembered the Doctor, and the two were meant to be at “school” together.
Possibly the discrepancies in the story were because the “CIA” (a very silly addition) were the Time Lords we had seen previously. If so, something should have been added to the script to explain it all. It’s amazing what a few lines will do to cover up some plot strangeness (as with Sarah’s bewilderment when Egyptian mummies build rockets in PYRAMIDS OF MARS).
This is a good story, but one which should not have been made for A. Doctor Who. As I pointed out at the time, even the title does not make sense. Whether or not Holmes was thinking of the sect of assassins or not, the adjective ‘deadly’ is still quite superfluous. I suppose the show was ‘Silly, But Fun’.
Wow ā now an awful lot of this can be summarised as āthis did not meet with my mind canon of Time Lordsā and be dismissed. Robert Holmes is not responsible for someone imagining something different to him. The supposed ācontinuity errorsā have a point that I can argue. In worshipping his thoughts of a āGolden eraā of the past Rudzi had ignored a crucial lesson, delivered to him by the show he loved in Invasion of the Dinosaurs. There are no Golden eras.
And as much as I laughed at, and was bewildered by, his Dinosaur attitudes and his criticism when I was young Iāve learned to have a bit of respect for him. Why? Because he at least spent some time articulating his criticism. After spending more time than is healthy reading RTD and Moff bashing posts I cannot but help thinking that articulate criticism is dead. We live in an era of soundbites and Iām afraid that
Itās quite refreshing to watch a story that focuses entirely on the Doctor amidst the modern stuff that features Ā companions who seem to think the show is about them.Ā
Is just meaningless. I canāt even post āYou are Steve Moffats Jan Vincent Rudzki, and I claim my five poundsā because it would be an insult to Rudzki. Are you suggesting that Clara thinks the show is about her. Or Coleman. Or Steven Moffat?
Letās celebrate the past. Or write a detailed damning invective of the present, which we will post as a blog. Letās not do soundbite criticism.
9 May 2015 at 16:04 #40024I think my general opinion of the election result can be summarised as āoh buggerā.
I used to participate on the Gs Political blogs on occasion until the majesty of Andrew Sparrows politics blogs were ruined by format changes. I hope no-one minds if I info dump my āState of the Nationā thoughts onto here. In keeping with the general philosophy I shall be making more than one or two Doctor who references. Iām also trying to keep an upbeat and positive approach. Iām also just really talking about the trad 3 parties here.
Iāll also be upfront ā as the son of a Miner, a teenager of the eighties (and all that strife) I do not think happy thoughts when confronted with people in blue. My grandfathers were miners. My father was from the North-east my Mother from the North-west. Their fathers were Miners. I have a ancestor who was on the Jarrow March. Paternal family was Scottish descended, Maternal was Irish descended. I was born in a Midlands torn apart by eighties excesses and live in a part of Yorkshire that has never fully recovered from those. I escaped from a mining town to live in another mining town. Before the Mines were closed and the idiotic harmful practice of adding to the Carbon burden of Coal by importing cheap coal from around the globe was implemented to prove a cretinous political point. I went to the University of Bradford (founding father Harold Wilson ā a Labour PM) and I took great delight, while there, of being a voting participant in the downfall of Sontaran look alike Eric Pickles who led a ruinous City Council.

Unfortunately , he was rewarded by a sycophantic Party with a safe MP seat and heās now the Minster of shooting rapid fire Mindwank from the hip in the direction of the Daily Mail.
Just so you know- I have a natural antipathy for the Conservative Party.
āSome Corners of the Universe have bred the most terrible things…they must be foughtā.
That such an inept shower of shite as the current Conservative Party have gained power is truly disturbing. Iām sure the analysis of this one will go on and on. The āquiet conservativesā who said theyād vote one way and jump back to the venal option were a real thing in the eighties and early nineties. Imagine that ā a party that you were embarrassed to admit youād support when asked in an anonymous poll. But you still voted for. The mind boggles.
Here we are though. The PM is David Cameron. With a slim majority and not in coalition. The āDavid Cameron is a lizard personā label is quite common.

It doesnāt quite work in Doctor Who terms because the Silurians (and Vastra in particular) are capable of compassion. Not so David Cameron.
David Cameron in a photo op showing the face of Compassionate Conservatism.
āDavid ā donāt play with your foodā
āVote for me or the puppy gets itāMy āReason to be cheerfulā on this is twofold. Heās announced this will be his final term. What that means in practice is that heāll probably stand down like Blair at some point and a nasty totemic fight for the leadership will erupt. Heās also a lame duck PM with a slim majority just as John Major was in the nineties, held to ransom by members of his own party with some pretty swivelled eyed views. With fixed parliaments in play, I canāt help thinking this is a recipe for a series of huge self inflicted wounds as the Conservatives try to play āWho is the biggest Bāstard of the lot of usā.
Therefore I canāt help but think that the following e-mail has been sent by Conservative Central Office:
āDear MP
Congratulations on being elected/re-elected!
Please donāt die.
A Wonk.
CCO”Because byelections are notoriously bad for Government. Every one over the next five years will be hilarious.

āVote for me! What this country needs right now is a slack jawed buffoon!!āPost Cameron, the replacement Bāstards are potentially Boris Johnson, who has suddenly gone all āFederal states of the UKā on us. A tacit admission that the Tories may as well give up on huge swathes of the UK. He should know, because heās offended and made grovelling apologies to many of them. Letās face it ā the Boris act of appearing as some sort of bumbling toff in a 1950s farce bellowing āoh crickeyā as his pants fall down is not going to play in a huge amount of the country.
The other is George Osborne ā as Chancellor heās been the disaster that only an over privileged toff whose only substantive previous job was menial work in Selfridges could be. He appears to genuinely hate actual people and has spent much of his time in this election (as in the previous) being locked in a cage fed raw meat in case he said something controversial.

Forget the Fourth Doctor adventure ā this is the true “Face of Evil”. George Osborne is so un-ironically evil he readily agreed to pose for this picture.ĀAs I said before. The fact that substantial numbers of people actually looked at this Party (and donāt get me started on other individual members like Hunt and Gove) and thought āah ā theyāre the guys for me!ā makes me think that many of my fellow voters are actual sociopaths.
āYouāre the perfect example of the inverse ratio between size of mouth and size of brainā
In a timey wimey way Nick Clegg has the unusual honour of being satirised before he even joined politics. In the 70s 2000AD the insane right wing Judge Cal was propped up in power by lizard alien āKleggsā. A Case of life imitating art perhaps.

Since they were formed from the old Liberal/Social Democratic Parties theyāve always traded on the image of being left leaning and progressive. Largely, going into power with the conservatives was always going to be harmful to them. It must be said though that Cleggs behaviour in Government in appearing to relish the shared dialogue of victim blaming the unemployed and benefit scroungers was appallingly crass. Also ā admitting that you never believed in a huge part of your electoral manifesto (the economic position, Student loan position, NHS, shit the list goes on and on) live on TV was stunning in itās elegant way. He may as well of announced the death of his party then and there. Clegg could cry a river and I wouldnāt feel any sympathy for him.The Party has started making noises about going back the Social Democratic principles but, letās face it, the many casualties in itās MPs (they have lost four fifths of itās MPs) have taken place in the progressive elements of the North and Scotland. They donāt have many people who are naturally wired that way left. While it was great to see Beaker look alike Danny Alexander losing his seat it was painful to see people like Charles Kennedy, who was so articulate in opposing the Iraq war, going the same way.
I think their next leader is going to be Farron, and any reorientation to āthe leftā is going to be pretty superficial.
āI gave him this big old dream about Dan the Soldier Manā

“Just look at the way he eats a sandwich! Heās obviously unfit to govern.”Ed Milliband. The fact that so much can be made of one guy eating a bacon sandwich (which seemed to be in the news for weeks) is surely a statement of how low weāve come. He became a natural target for much of the press (who generally donāt like lefties very much anyway) when he took up MP Tom Watsons cause on press corruption and led with it.
You canāt get away from the fact that a large amount of his problem was presentation. Heās stilted and doesnāt come over as natural in any meaningful way. Heās said much of value, but it has a habit of getting lost. It really is a shame. The question is now who is going to replace him.

Holy shit ā itās the Auton shop window dummies!The bookies front runners are Yvette Cooper, Andy Burnham and Chuka Ummuna. Each has their own individual problems and all seem like the plastic Auton replicants of elements of past leaders. I think a huge problem for Labour is that it has to get past the whole āAre you a Brownite or a Blairiteā mindset. Frankly ā any of the above seem to have exactly those kind of issue.
One of the names that has cropped up as an outsider is Dan Jarvis. This is astonishing to me as heās the name I put my X next to on Thursday. Heās been my MP since he was elected in a byelection held shortly after the last General election. Yes ā this guy have never served a full Parliament and is mentioned in a leadership race. Astonishing, but somehow very right.
Iāll explain why. Basically Iāve lived for 20 years in Barnsley. An old mining town. Itās MPs have traditionally been deep red and come from the Mining community. Eric Illsley was reelected in 2010 and he was someone I couldnāt vote for at the time. Because Eric had been a naughty boy on the expenses issue and had to resign to take a short holiday at Her Majesties Pleasure shortly after the election. The 2010 election had also seen a surge of support for nasty right wing party the BNP who made a huge gain by painting themselves as the āAnti-Warā party. It naturally played very well because with the devastation wrought on the Mining Industry, the area became a prime recruiting ground for the armed services. Lots of people will have family who serve or who have served and a certain pride in local regiments is evident.
Jarvis was selected and broke a lot of traditions. He was born in Nottingham (not local) and wasnāt really from the Mining tradition. He was a soldier. This annoyed some but he fought an effective campaign, won (this wasnāt really in doubt) but in doing so knee-capped the entire BNP strategy and their support collapsed. As an MP he got promoted to speak on Culture and then Youth Justice. He was pretty effective on both and it was refreshing to see someone admit they didnāt have an awful lot of knowledge of the aspects of the culture role, but was eager to learn.
Putting aside his relative inexperience, I think he has a couple of major advantages.
Firstly, heās not tied to the Brownite/Blairite legacy because he didnāt serve under either of them. While they were in power he fought the wars that are so problematic for Labour. From Kosovo in 1999 through Iraq and Afghanistan. For a party that has to heal from some of those decisions, I think he may be the means to do so.
Secondly, and more importantly perhaps, is that the Conservatives genuinely fear him. He doesn’t fit the narrative of champagne socialist at all, and due to a mixture of circumstances is ironically bullet proof as far as usual Tory attack processes go. His first wife died of bowel cancer. He gave a hugely emotive speech on the NHS praising their care for her. How can you paint him as one of these socialists out to destroy everything you hold dear when heās served for Queen and Country? Heās a difficult target from an aspirational working class background. Heās also got a less practised artificial air about him. Iāll post a rare link to the Daily Mail here. Thatās why the Conservatives really fear him. If he can get that sort of press from the Mail? So ā commeth the hour and all that, are we ready for Dan the Soldier Man for PM?
4 May 2015 at 23:19 #39852Taking the unusual step (looks up) at putting some news on the News page before I hibernate again….
If anyone doesn’t know the Horror channel has come to freeview and you can watch some Tom Baker on Sat afternoons and Sunday mornings. They seem to be on Key to Time at the moment. CHannel 70.
More interesting still is More Tom. And Leela. On Saturday Teatime. Radio 4xtra have the first series on their audio adventures beginning at 6pm on the 16th May. 4 and Leela Back in the Tardis! Pass me the jelly babies and I’ll revert to my seven year old self.
I’ve heard some and they are pretty good. It starts with Destination Nerva and moves on in subsequent weeks to The Renaissance Man, The Wrath Of The Iceni, Energy Of The Daleks, Trail Of The White Worm and The Oseidon Adventure. With it being Radio, you can listen to them live overseas via the website.
4 May 2015 at 23:00 #39847Hack is not a polite word, and it should be used sparingly, if it all.
I donāt particularly use it myself, but I should point out that, on this side of the pond anyway, it didnāt always have such negative connotations. It was just used to describe writers who write as a job rather than for āthe artā.Fancy that. Itās quite common to find writers of the 60s and 70s in TV who will self-identify as āhacksā. For example you mentioned Robert Holmes, surely one of the greats of Who who said he was ājust a hack script writerā. (The book about him A life in Words is a great read from a writers perspective).
A key writer in his tenure as Script Editor, Chris Boucher, once said:
āIām a hack writer. As it happens, I think Iām a damn good hack writer, so thatās alrightā.
And so he is/was.
Language changes of course, but I donāt think the term is inherently derogatory. If these guys were hacks they came from a literary culture where self confessed āhacksā have included Swift, Dickens and Beckett. Good company.
Let us remember the wise words of Samuel Johnson āNo man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for the money.ā What a fine hack that man was. š
4 May 2015 at 17:07 #39828Oh, donāt be such a coy tart @Burrunjor
Of course youāre Joseph on Planet Mondas. Ever since I was pointed in the general direction Iāve been laughing at them. I mean
Joseph on Missy:
He had her want to shag the Doctor just because she was a woman. I mean how sexist is that? Just because the Master is now a woman he wants to shag his mortal enemy LOL. Plus there is also the fact that she called herself Missy just because she was a woman I mean WTF.
You appear to have a problem with shagging. I make no value judgement.
Joseph on Ingrid Oliver:
for me the worst was Ingrid Oliver. She played Osgood. She is actually a great actress. She appeared in Peep Show as Natalie who raped David Mitchell. You could not have imagined a more different character to Osgood if you tried.
All sounds drearily familiar doesnāt it? You have a gift for disguise that is only matched by Inspector Clouseau in the old Pink Panther movies.
I genuinely donāt mind what your views are. I welcome views opposed to mine as long as they are well argued and donāt rely on the sad detritus of uninformed generalisation to try to provoke argument. The āSoap Operasā and your āHack Writersā. At the end of the day all these things are your problems because Iām revelling in the show at the moment.
However this attempt by a very few people to try to make out these are widely held viewpoints because they want to sign in and scream the same message on every different forum under different names is just so sadly inept that it deserves to be pointed out. And laughed at.
You donāt want to debate. Thatās not the point is it? Monomaniacs like yourself donāt want to debate. Thatās why Iām being deliberately and pointedly insulting. Because you are a fricking idiot. And your blog sucks.
Last post from me here goodbye.
You hear that sound? No? Thatās because itās a sad song played on the worldās smallest violin. Cheerio.
4 May 2015 at 13:32 #39820Gosh ā decision time this Thursday. General Election time.
It really has been rubbish hasnāt it? No discussion of substantive issues just lots of āVote for me, Iām not himā. No confirmation of whether the parties will continue to support UNIT and the valuable work it does. No discussion about Immigration Policy as it applies to wandering Time Travellers. Not even an indication of who is the favourite Doctor of the main party leaders. How is a perfectly sane Doctor Who fan expected to make a choice?
I reckon David Cameron would share a natural affinity with six. Red faced when he bellows and shouts down his opponents. A Natural bully.
Nick Clegg in that typical Lib Dem love of lost causes would champion eight.
Ed Milliband? As he looks like a complete geek and is keen not to alienate anyone I reckon he could pull the āsplendid chaps, all of themā line out of his hat.
Natalie Bennett? Touchy feely no 10 for sure.
Nigel Farage? While labelling the entire show a left wing conspiracy I think heād be drawn to no 3.
Nichola Sturgeon? Any of the Scottish ones, obviously.
4 May 2015 at 13:20 #39819@Burrunjor
Oh dear. Having a bit of a Missy Hissy Fit are we?
no way could I imagine that Delgado and Missy are one and the same
The failure of your imagination in these circumstances has nothing to do with the show, casting and writing Iām sure. Especially as youāve expanded on your reasons in the guise of āJosephā on another forum today. PC gorn mad. Donāt want the Doctor as a woman. Etc ad nauseum.
You also ādelightedā the crowd on Digital Spy as āMatt Wilsonā didnāt you? Same shit, different forum. Are the diverse names some feeble attempt to generate the feeling that more people are unhappy about the things youāre unhappy about? Whatever. I merely point this out to inform other forum users that you are entirely the kind of boring monomaniac who will spend his Bank Holiday peddling his stodgy unimaginative generalisations to whichever audience is available with no hope of anything approaching reasoned debate.
Have fun with that.
22 March 2015 at 11:24 #39080I actually laughed out loud at the suggestion that the original creators of Doctor Who envisaged him as some Christ figure. It would seem to indicate that you have never seen those early serials. I donāt remember any of the gospels talking about Christ about to cave in an incapacitated manās head with a rock until one of his followers stopped him? You may be able to correct me on that though. The Doctor at the start is very different to what we see today.
Newman ordered a quasi-educational show and not a quasi-religious show, and thatās what he got. Famously he didnāt like the Daleks because he didnāt like the ābug-eyed monsterā thing with science fiction. Lambert convinced him by explaining that if it was good enough for the Ancient Greeks to tell morality tales with monsters, then it was probably good enough for the BBC.
Talk of the Doctor being a healer is pretty obvious ā itās been pointed out in the show often enough. Jesus may have been called a great healer or whatever, but it was the Ancient Greeks in the shape of Hippocrates who defined what a Doctor IS. āI shall keep them from harm and injustice…ā being the opening of his oath. He took his name as a promise, so the eleventh Doctor said. The idea of the Doctor as the wide ranging man of learning (a Doctor of āpractically everythingā as heās said) probably calls upon the Aristotelian ideal of the wide ranging man of reason. The Philosopher ā Scientist.
So before Christ came along to remind everyone that having a bit of compassion could improve the world these men of reason had come to the same conclusion. The discussed the laudable qualities of humanity and deemed them virtues. Of all of the virtues compassion was said to be the most valuable. The one to be most admired. Aristotle pondered on the question of how one could successfully maintain a virtuous life. He suggested that friends were an important part of the puzzle because being virtuous is actually quite difficult. A burden shared, etc, so choice of friends is integral to keeping your standards high. Your choice of friends will often reflect your aspirations as they are a mirror to your actions. āA friend is another himselfā he suggested. Feedback and approval from your friends is important. Aristotle also pointed out that reserves of compassion can be depleted by circumstances or āoveruseā. Compassion in any being is not limitless.
When we meet the first Doctor heās a man of reason but lacks compassion for his fellow beings. The enforced relationship with his early companions changed the Doctor, reminding him of his need for compassion. Two teachers from Coal hill school changed him. They made him more empathetic (the ability to diagnose pain and suffering in others) and energised his compassion (the desire to end pain and suffering in others). As Aristotle pointed out, sometimes he needs to have his compassion recharged as events sap them. Itās why he needs the right friends to tread his path. See S8 through the lens of Compassion, and you see why he needs Clara, why Dan became a soldier, why Dan and the Brig can resist Cyberman control and why the Master will always fail ā because the Master always sees compassion as a weakness.
If anything, Doctor Who is a 50 odd year love letter to the idea that Compassion is humanities redeeming quality. It stops us becoming the Monsters. That doesnāt make the Doctor Christ, or the writers Christians. It just makes them beings of reason.
1 February 2015 at 18:42 #37744Ever since Gina Bellman was suggested in another discussion, I’ve been drawn to that as a suggestion. Ideal candidate in that she’s not massively famous, good range of parts, light touch with comedy, etc.
Who would you pick?
1 February 2015 at 16:47 #37742@purofilion
Sorry for the delay on this one
OK. I havenāt seen Farscape. Whilst Iād heard of it, I had no idea it was Australian? Rightio. Add that to the new knowledge pile.
While I appreciate you are deep into Buffy and Angel watches at the moment, do try Farscape later on. It’s grand space opera that starts of umpromisingly as a lone shuttle pilot gets sling shoted into a wormhole and finds himself in the middle of a space battle. So far, so Buck Rogers. The hero John Crighton is no Buck though, and it does have a unique voice of its own.
With the exception of John (Ben Browder, who played Isaac in A Town Called Mercy), the cast is mainly Australian and New Zealand based (fans of Mad Max 2 will see more than a couple of familiar faces), it makes great use of some great locations in Australia.
Jim Hensons creature designs are fantastic, visual effects work is awesome and it’s hugely creative – especially with regard to alien swear words which gradually build up and you understand from context. By Series 3 you can hear exchanges that, because you’re used to them, are absolute filth, in the nicest possible way. š
It’s fast talking and bonkers. I love it.
1 February 2015 at 15:48 #37740I forgot to say, I’d also appreciate it if our writers would ignore the “wrong headed” dismissive attitude of one person and remember that we are open to fan stories and creative input. If you ever feel the urge to produce something, let us know and I’m sure you’ll find an appreciative audience.
1 February 2015 at 14:49 #37738Iāve enjoyed reading the contributions on writing as well, but time didnāt permit me to respond fully, so Iāve left it late (Iāll submit my note later). Like @juniperfish Iāll defend fanfic as a concept to the hilt. Especially as Doctor Who (and perhaps fellow sixties Sci-fi franchise Star Trek) owes the concept an awful lot.
Here are my thoughts (with apologies for the length).
To go back to your original point:
up pops the newbie saying, I want to write stuff for Doctor Who and then they disappear quickly as the challenges associated with not being an established writer with a body of work, or indeed being any kind of writer with an understanding of editing, or rewrites, or rejection, or committing to something you might fail at, or yāknow, work, emerge.
Personally Iād say to those people that, in this day and age, the chances of successfully pitching an episode of Doctor Who (the TV show and āmothershipā) are substantially less than winning the lottery. If only because those wise heads in legal advice will prohibit staff from reading fan submissions full stop. A sad state of affairs, but understandable in the age of creative industry litigation.
It wasnāt always this way and, believe it or not, a fan writer did get to see his name in the writing credits for Doctor Who with no history of ever having something published or performed before. His name was Andrew Smith. He was a late teenager (yes-read that and weep) when, after having constructive criticism on earlier submissions by luminaries like Robert Holmes (possibly concerned the writers mentoring system at the BBC was being deconstructed) and Douglas Adams (possibly trying to avoid a multitude of other things he was actually supposed to be doing), had a story proposal accepted that led to the episode Full Circle for Tom Baker.
I donāt know if you remember it, but apart from the massive drag factor of introducing Adric to a disbelieving Whoniverse (not Smithās decision) I think he produced something rather good. Itās a nice conflict of philosophies episode with a lovely bit of āupsetting the natural balanceā, and with Tom getting a chance to lay into some meaty moralising (he was always good at that). Interestingly, the need to eat suppressed Smithās career and he became a Policeman. In the last decade, Big Finish approached him and heās written more stories. In fact, he never gave up because itās something he loved.
Ah, Big Finish ā a product of fans of the show who got big, producing written audio adventures for the Doctor. Some of the short trips series of audiobooks are still based on fan submissions. There is more than the Mothership producing Doctor Who, and Iād suggest people look at Doctor Who Monthly and the fanzine community also for avenues. The internet has made it easier for those who write (and those who want to read) to find each other. Ultimately, a writer wants to write, but it seems that if they want to improve their writing they need feedback, and this is an easy route to pursue.
Before BF, during the off screen years you had Vigin and BBC Books actively seeking out writers for the original novels they produced. A lot of applications came from the fan-fiction community to become published. In fact, here is the official guidance page from the BBC way back when BBC books were in this mode. I think it contains some good advice.
Even under that, Iād say the book ranges could be hugely variable with even some of the established writers falling into some fan fiction traps. I did mean to write a follow up blog to the thing I did on Target last year, and may revisit the idea now as treating the published works as fan-fic (which they undoubtedly are) may give me an avenue to summarising what is an astonishing amount of work.
Overall though I think to casually dismiss fan fiction for Doctor Who when the lines have become very blurred over the years is a mistake.
27 January 2015 at 16:28 #37635Iāll be the first to give a little gentle applause here for your contribution. Can I just say though that when we use, as our tagline:
Theories even more inane than whatās actually happening
That we generally confine ourselves to the plots of Doctor Who, rather than warped “troofer” style conspiracy theories fed, in your case it seems, by an unhealthy religiosity and a smattering of Derek Acorah.
I think Iād recommend putting down the DVD commentaries and biographies for a while and getting out in the fresh air. Perhaps you can work out some issues by doing something to raise money for Lis Sladens favoured charity? The Lymphoedema Support Network
19 January 2015 at 04:44 #37418I have no problem with the idea Fox might try to pressure the showrunners, but the thought that Joss ā an out and proud atheist and existentialist ā would play along is simply laughable.
If we are going to discuss Whedon shows on this forum, would you mind checking that enormous mancrush you seem intent on displaying at the door? It’s obscuring the sun, and may actually be visible from Voyager 2.
You’ve already indicated that Josh was guided unwisely on this season. What was it?
that Doug Petrie latched onto and talked Joss into
I didn’t mention Whedon in my post. Just to circumnavigate the entirely tiresome “any criticism of Buffy is a criticism of Saint Jossā conversation, please point me in the direction I actually criticised him in that post, and not the show.
Or alternatively, STFU and get back to talking about how awesome Cave Buffy and pants are. At this point, it seems your level.
19 January 2015 at 04:19 #37415@purofilion
Thatās interesting about OZ TV, and I would be interested in hearing reports from others on their national state of TV. Ours is pretty dire at the moment, with the BBC holding up a rearguard action, but the BBC has always seemed to function better with actual competition. Which looking about, we are sadly lacking.
Have you ever seen Farscape? A fine Oz based sci-fi show that occurred around Buffy-time that has a couple of firm adherents on the forum. Great to hear so many Oz accents. In SPACE!
Delighted (but not surprised) that you enjoyed Hush and some of the Angel Series. The scene in Hush you describe with Anthony Head giving his ālectureā with Danse Macabre seemed really funny at the time. I donāt know if youāve seen any Jonathan Creek, but ASH appeared in the pilot as the stage magician that Creek works for. He didnāt reprise the role because he moved to explore America and got Buffy. The show featured Colin Baker getting murdered (he made an excellent and convincing corpse) and the theme tune was Danse Macabre. I couldnāt help but wonder if the production team had seen it and thought it was a good joke.
@purofilion @lisa
Just. Don’t! With the Gentlemen and Whispermen comparisons. We had “rip-off” allegations on Name of the Doctor.
I may have to rhyme again (and it was bad enough the first time).
19 January 2015 at 04:02 #37411Confirmation weāre the same age, I think. I grew to loath trips with my dad as he put on his āniceānāeasyā C&W tapes. But his werenāt approaching the calibre of the artistes you mention. š
I guess the difference in ages really does tell on this one, but this was the kind of thing my Dad used to play, brilliantly parodied by Billy Connelly.
Country and Western Supersong (apologies for picture quality).
I think the entry point for C&W for me was bizarre – The Blues Brothers, playing Rawhide in that film. I just loved the sound of the steel guitar. As I got into adolescence and explored music a bit, I got into Blues, from there some Bluegrass, and invevitably some C&W. Like any genre, an AWFUL lot of crap but truly some gems. In doing this I came to realise that the earthy stuff was really engaging.
In the 80s a few bands started to reference C&W from their youth in covers etc. This was the punk generation, and when you hear people like Siouxsie and the Banshees play “Gun” or Social Distortion play “Ring of Fire” you can feel the energy.
I you want someone taking the piss out of new-wave C&W, I’ll leave it to the master – Otis lee Crenshaw.
18 January 2015 at 01:59 #37361I was called out today, but have just watched that documentary and highly recommend it. A lovely reflection of fan enthusiasm after reading unhinged internet comments, and just fantastic to see the creativity and diverse nature of fandom.
It was interesting to see the spread of the demographics as they moved around. I’d say the historic bastions of fandom (UK and Australia) had the most diverse age ranges, while I was absolutley shocked by the overwhelming female and young Korean audience. Lovely to see them treating Peter Capaldi like a rock star.
Lots of nice talking heads and SM, PC and JC seem to have a great dynamic. Jenna snorting with laughter as Capaldi said, at one point “oh…good answer. Sounda suspiciously rehearsed though. Have you been asked it before?” was a killer.
Loved seeing Alice X Zhang working on her artwork. Her confidence with the digital techniques is remarkable. Hope our resident artwork appreciators @jimthefish, @whisht and @wolfweed got to look at that.
18 January 2015 at 01:28 #37360Actually, Beer Bad got nominated for an Emmy. ::Pause:: Okay, it was for Outstanding Hairstyling.
I must remember that, if Iām ever tempted to watch it again. Watch the hair, itās possibly awesome and may distract me from everything else. š
I actually remember the Fox pitch for money from the Office of National Drug Control Policy, mainly because it led to Matt Groening taking the piss in his usual style via the Simpsons. The irony is, after being produced, Beer Bad didnāt even win any funding because the panel that made the awards deemed it āconfused nonsenseā if I remember correctly. Feel the happy!
Puritanical
Largely, Iād agree with Jim on that one. It may not be the intent, but as Wes Craven once reflected when Scream was released, he really hadnāt been aware of some of the underlying puritanical themes of all those old slasher movies ā the ārules of surviving a horror movieā that the script for Scream helpfully point out (a boozy, fornicating adolescent ā mincemeat, a teetotal virgin ā skips away from the carnage).
Looking at Buffy series 4 youāve already had ācasual sex is bad, mākay?ā and now ādrinking beer will lead to you devolving into a Neanderthalā (which is an insult to what little we know about Neanderthalās to be frank). It all seemed a little preachy, and was complicated in that another character in the show was already scheduled to go on a slow decline into possible alcohol dependency, which was a lot more subtly done.
The cumulative effect of this actually drew a lot of applause from some bonkers right wing Christian groups who thought the liberal left media was possibly seeing their point of view for once. In reality, a show that had been so adept at undercutting horror tropes had subconsciously started to echo them. Itās an unfortunate thing, but possibly inevitable when you have a large run of episodes to write and money being dangled by political appointed groups who have a specific āmessageā in mind.
17 January 2015 at 03:07 #37341Looking forward to a lively conversation on series 4 when @purofilion has finished it. To paraphrase that great poet of our time, Meatloaf:
I will do anything to defend Series 4 of Buffy the Vampire Slayerā¦.
I will cheerfully defend Beer Bad.
ā¦.But I wonāt do that.
A crap episode with one good scene (Parker ā Willow). Itās truly appalling and I think the reason that so many people dismiss some really good stuff about the series. Itās like a black hole, sucking all the joy out of surrounding episodes.
The horror.
17 January 2015 at 03:06 #37340Sorry you arenāt enjoying it as much. Nice to get an alternative view though which may at least warn people. I think it has really different intentions to what some were expecting. When you wrote:
I think they should be trying to put a Scooby Gang together with Cat, Bruce, and Ivy, which could be fun to watch.
Isnāt that like a junior Smallville? I think it may have been popular with a young demographic, but this show isnāt particularly going for that.
Heartened to hear youāll give Angel a go when you can. Lots to enjoy.
17 January 2015 at 03:03 #37339Thanks, and I hope youāll give POI a new look.
I find it fascinating that representations given to AI on movies and TV, and I think that scene (and particularly the bit about destroying us) was written to just quickly diffuse a common trope ā the AI that, gaining sentience, immediately wants to wipe us out (what you could call the SKYNET effect). Doctor Who has done it a couple of times as well (as early as the Hartnell story The War Machines).
POI has taken a different approach, and I think both the Machine and Samaritan are slaves to their programmes in a way, just as we are basically slaves to some of our genetic inheritance. The Machine, by learning, has absorbed the lessons and philosophy of itās creator. Itās virtually paralysed by indecision in the IF-THEN-ELSE episode. Samaritan is programmed for āTotal controlā of the Planet and is playing a more straightforward game strategy (which is nonetheless compelling to explore).
Iāve never particularly found the Skynet route that convincing. In books I would point out people like Iain M Banks (whose sentient MINDS actually like people ā much as we like pets), and in TV a show that was sadly cancelled called Odyssey 5, about a group of astronauts who engage in a kind of time travel to unravel why the Earth was destroyed. It was marvellous in its presentation of Sentient programmes on the early internet. Some like Skynet, batshit crazy, some stalkerish, and some just very endearing. A series by Mani Cotto that was way ahead of its time. A couple of years later, with more participation on the internet and some of the stories may have gained more traction. As such, it’s still an interesting curio.
Intro, showing the cast.
17 January 2015 at 02:59 #37338RIP Brian Clemens. A towering colossus of British TV.
I was gutted to hear that during the week. Itās a loss because heās one of the last links to an age when TV was actually run by showmen, the Lew Grades and Sydney Newmans of this world, rather than accountants and anodyne Management Consultants.
Back in the day, we had Lew Grade (running independent TV) declaring that people really wanted fantasy, because they got reality every day and so were used to it. He commissioned so many Clemens ideas because of that, and Brit TV seemed so healthy. These days, the anodyne rule and Broadchurch is proclaimed as a majestic return to form for ITV.
Now that’s depressing.
17 January 2015 at 01:22 #37336But I was wondering if this was the first time a sentient ship had been seen on T.V.
It’s an interesting question that. Thinking about it I think it was beaten by a Martian ship unearthed in London in the serial Quatermass and the Pit, which we discussed last year. It holds a kind of malevolent intelligence that projects and harnesses psychic power. It’s well worth a look if you haven’t seen it, because it was a real influence on Doctor Who.
17 January 2015 at 01:10 #37335A wonderful episode for a rewatch. I think it was @janetteb who suggested it, so good call her.
Itās actually a reminder that in Doctor Who, a bit of desperation could be the mother of invention. Last year we rewatched Mind Robber and City of Death, both which I think benefited from sparks of invention necessitated by production problems and late rewrites. In this case, two extra episodes had to be sourced and David Whittaker, Whoās first Story Editor, had two days to come up with a story, which had no money and production time for much set work.
Itās actually a slight concept overall, but there is so much good character work and a fundamental reveal about the Doctorās marvellous machine that more than makeup for it. As Ian remarked in Unearthly Child, āItās Alive!ā. Here they are about to learn thatās true, and itās astonishing that such an important concept for the series as it evolved was delivered on the spur of the moment.
In a way, it has to backpeddle slightly on the character āhealā that occurs in the last story The Daleks, but this is still so early in the series that I think it gets away with it. Especially because of Barbara and Ianās clear exasperation that the Doctors paranoia about their motivations has come back.
Iād echo @bluesqueakpip, @purofilion, @barabaralefty @scaryb @janetteb and @arbutus in that this is such a strong episode for Barbara. She really does lay into the Doctor, she is a comforting presence for Susan, and puts all the clues together. In fact if you will allow me to unleash that small, twisted nugget of Guardian commentator that lies shrivelled within me:
āWhy oh why donāt they just call this the Barbara Wright show? Itās supposed to be Doctor Who. Why canāt we go back to how it used to be when Verity Lambert ran the ⦠oh. Iāll get me coat.ā š
But itās nice to see the team gel at the end. There is closure on those suspicion issues and the friendships grow from here. You have Susan dropping Miss Wright and calling her Barbara. And Susanās approval is obviously important to even this cantankerous Doctor. And Iāve always thought his (deliberately scripted) mistake with Ianās name at the end was a nice signal that things were back to normal between them.
And thereās also a very strong implication here that the Doctor really doesnāt understand the TARDIS.
Absolutely. I think one of the interesting things that followed in how Time Lords were presented was that, as a society, they had got to a point where innovation and enquiry didnāt seem to engage them much. They rested on their laurels content that things worked, and not that bothered about why they worked. I think most people with a mobile phone will appreciate the mindset. š
I also love that, not only did this reveal the TARDIS was alive, but beyond that control room were mile upon mile of corridors. It sets the tone for just about every time the show has explored the TARDIS. Oh, there have been hints in other episodes about the wonders within, but perhaps like the Doctors past they are better left to the imagination. It also potentially answers the question about why the Doctor is so good at running down corridors. Imagine trying to navigate that labyrinth every time you need the loo!
Not impressed with the TARDIS bedrooms ā maybe she was still getting the hang of the interior decor thing for humans.
It used to make me laugh whenever we saw companionās rooms for Romana and the Davison crew later, where they clearly (and pointedly) had single beds. No potential for hanky panky in the TARDIS, please! We may end up with a baby with a Time Head, or something. š
I always thought the Doctors Wife (more corridors!) joke about bunk beds was a sly dig at that.
11 January 2015 at 00:11 #37219I hate to say it, but Iāve always kind of liked the Constantine movie.
Youāre dead to me. Dead. š
I just canāt get on with Keanu, even in films I actually like (The Matrix for example). The exceptions are the Bill and Ted movies, in which I think he actually puts in a credible performance. Maybe as himself, but still a performance. Although Alex Winter is better (whatever happened to Alex Winter ā he could have been a contender, man).
Many thanks for the confirmation that you intend to cover Angel. Iām aware of the work required to put those thoughts together, which is why I tentatively asked. I agree with you that Angel is often relegated in importance, and Iād welcome the chance to wax lyrical about it.
Itās also why Iād like @barnable to take a look at it. I simply canāt imagine a life where I hadnāt seen the wonderful (RIP) Andy Hallett sing āDonāt leave me this wayā or seen Joss dance the dance of joy. It makes me smile just thinking about moments like that. On reflection, I have so many happy memories of Angel.
@purofilion
Keep us informed. I have a blog idea on classic ādreamā riffs in books, movies, TV, etc. and Iām sneakily trying to determine when itās safe to release because S4 contains an episode Iād like to discuss. Itās still a work in progress so no hurry.
Gotham is an odd one. My main concern was whether it would find an enthusiastic audience (apart from me). So far it seems good though, and I’d say, like Person of Interest, it may exist below the radar from some of the “build it up, then knock it down” sites that discuss these shows. Being everyones second or third favourite show is perhaps the place to be for longevity?
10 January 2015 at 21:28 #37214Constantine, though, is an entirely different kettle of fish
You have to pose the question, on occasion, what certain fictional characters have done to get the treatment that studios meet out.
John Constantine is a hard-drinking, chain smoking magician and ex-punk rocker. In the words of his best mate, Chas, āa twenty-four carat bastardā. Invented by Alan Moore for his run on Swamp Thing to guide the hero of that story through the murky underbelly of the US in American Gothic and lead him to a revelation. In doing so costing the lives of many of his friends and two āGolden Eraā DC heroes.
Everyone loves a bastard, and he was soon back in his own book ā Hellblazer, with Jamie Delano writing a compelling series of episodes that looked at a sickness that had embraced both sides of the Atlantic ā Conservatism. Itās great work and deserves to be revisited. Stock-brokers and bankers as demons, trading on the souls of the greedy? Oh yes, that seems relevant.
All this good stuff was squandered when he went to the big screen and they cast human mannequin Keanu Reeves as Constantine. Appalling. Some lamented the fact theyād made the Liverpool born Mockney an American, but frankly Iād heard Reeves attempting an English accent in Much Ado about Nothing and felt grateful.
For the TV series theyāve cast Matt Ryan who looks more the part (imagine dishevelled aging Sting) and may, in some vague way, sound the part. But boy, the character sucks. Big Time. Because everyone loves a Bastard apart from the studios who constantly seem to undermine the bad boys. Greedo shot first. Dexter really could feel. Pass me the sick bucket.
The episode āFeast of Friendsā actually adapts the first two parter that opened Hellblazer Hunger, and is a case in point. One of Johnās remaining friends has unleashed an African born hunger demon in the developed world. Having been raised on a subsistence diet of famine this demon gets a taste for the more subtle desires that we enjoy, and gorges itself. To trap the beast, John takes his junky friend, straps him into a chair and at the height of his need, his hunger, lets the beast consume him, before sealing the demon within to consume itself. On the TV, his friend suddenly comes to the realisation that this is what must be done, offering our hero a chance to be slightly less of a bastard and for them to share a lovely angst filled moment together.
Just. WHY?! This is not John Constantine. We don’t need any more angsty bad boys. We’re swimming in them. It gets worse when, apparently in all seriousness in another episode, he suddenly proclaims:
āNo price is too high to protect innocence!ā.
John Constantine ā King of the fucking fortune cookie! I canāt imagine him saying that without being pictured with a big, shit-eating grin on his face.
John Constantine is a uncouth brigand. A product of the DIY Punk generation he got into magic his own way. He does the right thing in a surly self preservational way. Heās a cheat and a con-man. Heās the man who got the Devil to cure his cancer before giving him the finger as a sign of contempt. Heās a piss-artist, a womaniser and a dangerous man to know. Heās not an angst ridden do-gooder.

And heās not fucking Keanu Reeves, either.
10 January 2015 at 21:18 #37213In some excellent reporting from the 72nd Sci-fi Convention in London, @bluesqueakpip conveyed the troubling news that DC may be rushing it in adaptations for the big and small screens. I personally found this concerning because Iāve always found the DC stable a bit more engaging than Marvel, who are currently everywhere. On the small screen Iāve watched Gotham and Constantine, and itās a real mixed bag.
Firstly – Gotham
One of the funniest things Iāve read on the internet recently was someone huffily proclaiming āHuh, itās no Smallvilleā, because for some of us thatās a definite selling point.
I take it the writer was lamenting the fact that Gotham isnāt soggy with teenage hormones and angst in the fine tradition of the show that dealt with the teenage years of Superman. Gotham is undoubtedly more adult in intention, dealing with the type of society Gotham is, and our future hero is a bit too young to have amazing abs or flash them at every opportunity.
He is there though, and is a sullen presence seeking to understand why his parents were killed, and relying on Jim Gorden (Ben McKenzie) to unearth the answers. Jimās carrying the weight on this one, and McKenzie is nicely understated as potentially the one good cop in Gotham. The definition of relationships, particularly with Sean Pertwee as Alfred have been very well done. Watch Alfred join forces with the Police to find a missing Wayne, for example, and you are aware that this show has the potential to go to some dark places.
Among the cast of future villains in the Bat-world, I think I ought to mention Robin Lord Taylor who is weirdly compelling and Oswald Cobblepot, the man who would be the Kingpin of crime. It’s a disconcerting performance as he goes from obsequiousness to psychotic at the drop of a (top) hat.
I know @barnable was watching and it would be interesting to hear his thoughts. Largely Iāve enjoyed the first batch of episodes with a few minor quibbles.
10 January 2015 at 19:43 #37212I hope you enjoy it when you get to it. I actually stuggled through the first part of the first season as I had a suspicion it was going to be one of those shows that was never going to get to the point. Keep going through the “case of the week” episodes though and you get a nice slow reveal and a buildup of some important support characters.
@purofilion
How are you progressing with Buffy Series 4?
10 January 2015 at 16:05 #37206Talking of Amy Acker, is anyone watching Person of Interest? For me, series 4 has become must see TV and its just returned after a Christmas break with the cleverly titled IF-THEN-ELSE.
Over the first three series weāve learned the backstory of the development of The Machine ā an artificial intelligence created by Harold Finch for the US Government that watches all, sifts, predicts and identifies possible threats. Weāve learned the lengths that the Government will go to protect its secret and, with the Machine, the fate of those it identifies.
So the Machine has rebelled, severing its ties with THE MAN, who are naturally a bit peeved and turned to an alternative system developed by a shadowy organisation who may not have our best interests at heart. This new boy, SAMARITAN is a bit bad ass, and possibly insane.
So series 4 sees the battle of the unseen intelligences as they try to evaluate and neutralise each others plans. Our cast of heroes, by subterfuge, are the only humans on the planet that are hidden from SAMARITAN. Before Christmas we had āface to faceā talks between the machines through their āAnalogue Interfacesā. Great scene.
IF-THEN-ELSE follows and is a shockingly good episode. A groundhog day type idea with our heroes pinned down in a SAMARITAN trap. We enter the mind of the Machine as it races through the possible scenarios as it tries to find an optimal exit strategy where everyone lives. Itās intercut with one the regular flashback scenes as creator Harold (the ever reliable Michael Emerson) teaches it chess in the park (the machine is viewing him through local CCTV).
These scenes are always a joy, and Emerson deserves an enormous amount of credit for making one sided conversations so compelling and emotional as he tries to teach his child machine the important lessons in life. He sadly confesses heās taught the machine this game as a mental exercise ā but seeing the world as a Chess game, by making some pieces more important than others, in seeing the world in black and white is not an admirable way to think. The deep irony, of course, is that heās about to deliver this miracle into the hands of people who do think like that.
No ā Person of Interest is great TV. Action set-pieces that put some movies to shame, genuine shocks on occasion, tension, some great slow burning character work and a bit of high concept sci-fi thrown in. Awesome soundtrack as well.
10 January 2015 at 16:01 #37205Just on Angel, Iād say it may be worth giving it a go in the future. I can understand the reservations about the Angel character, but itās fascinating to see how the character changes when heās removed from the parent show. His occasional guest spots on Buffy donāt do the transition justice.
Iād also say that as an adult watcher of both Buffy and Angel, I came away with the feeling that for me, Angel was the stronger show. I donāt think this is that unusual because while Buffy dealt with themes of becoming an adult (which I could just about remember) Angel dealt with challenges that are possibly more relevant to the late 20-something/30-something brigade. The new fears and challenges that come when youāre an adult.
Watching Wesley develop over the series is a joy. You get to meet Amy Acker as Fred, and get confirmation of what weād all suspected ā Lawyers truly are evil.
Itās got a couple of dud elements and a few strands could have been handled better, but itās a great package overall.
10 January 2015 at 00:46 #37162Cherish this moment, my young friend. Your casual (but honestly expressed) thoughts on this episode have enraged a passing verifiable idiot to the extent he just had to sign in to challenge you in the most inept way possible. I get three a month now, but it did take me a large amount of time to accrue the first.
Consider his prose. Consider his form. Consider his ill-considered ad-homs.
This, @thekrynoidman, is not JUST an idiot. This is an organically produced, full fat, extra caffeinated heir to the throne of the kingdom of idiots.
I particularly liked:
Not while youāre someone who was 11 quite recently
As written by someone who is eleven now. Or whose IQ can be represented by those numbers.
Bless.
Cry @havoc, and let slip the dogs of idiocy, to be sure.
9 January 2015 at 22:14 #37151I really like the idea that Amelia made him real.
I do too! I’m sure that m’collegue @rob will confirm that some of the best ideas come to you when you are stood genital deep in an exploratory trench in icy weather! This was one of them. š
For all sorts of reasons that Doctor-Amy-Rory dynamic is truly special in Who history. The main relationship between the Doctor and Amy is just epically mythic in retrospect. The addition of Rory to the mix just makes is so much better. As much as I admire 10-Donna, or 11,12-Clara I can’t help but think that 11-Amy is the one to beat.
9 January 2015 at 19:42 #37144Just on the ārealnessā of Santa, well thatās in the eye of the beholder. I come down pretty heavily on āis real in this iteration of the Whoniverseā.
Letās look at the evidence. A recurring motif has been that our dreams may, in fact, be a bit more real than weāre comfortable with.
From Time of Angels
River: āWhat if we had ideas that could think for themselves? What if one day our dreams no longer needed us? When these things occur and are held to be true, the time will be upon us. The Time of Angels.ā
So did the Weeping Angels evolve as such, or are they the personification of fears of inanimate statues? If enough people believe the statue moves, does it?
Itās an idea thatās re-iterated in The Snowmen
The Doctor: “But you were just Dr. Simeon. You were not real. He dreamed you. How can you exist?”
The Great Intelligence: “Now the dream outlives the dreamer and can never die. Once I was the puppet, now I pull the strings.”Itās actually an uncomfortable thought ā your dreams becoming reality and having a life of their own. I can remember some of mine and the thought of them lurching down the street is pretty horrible. š
So ā where does Santa come from in these deranged imaginings?
Well, at the end of Series 5 The Doctor reboots the Universe. And is erased. It takes an act of belief from Amy (which is a real force ā Curse of Fenric and God Complex define it as such) to bring him back. But she was once Amelia, the little girl who prayed to Santa to deliver her someone whoād investigate that scary crack in her wall, and she got the Doctor. Perhaps, in bringing him back, she also invested him with a new friend. Santa ā the guy that had sent her best imaginary friend?
After The Big Bang, we have A Christmas Carol, and the Doctor confidently proclaims heās always known Geoff. Perhaps, from an act of belief from Amy, he always has?
9 January 2015 at 17:40 #37138I find myself with two days off, at home, with the wind howling, and an alcoholic beverage on standby. Pure luxury, Ladies and Gentlemen.
Mind, it’s probably going to take that long to work my way through all the posts since Christmas.
Some nourishing food before I dive into your thoughts, I think.
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