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  • #42968
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    Time Lord

    Well, if you are going to do a big continuity frenzy, you make it big, in your face and unapologetic.

    It’s not as if you needed to get all the references to get the story, but there was some strange window dressing to be had on the journey to Skaro. It really did remind me of the 50th anniversary in some ways, and it occurs that this may be SMs big splurge for 10 years of the new show.

    With the opening scenes set in the Maldovarium (Moff era) Shadow Proclamation (RTD era) and Karn (old Hinchcliffe era) you do seem to get the impression of skipping back in time to one of those pivotal stories of Doctor Who. The Hinchcliffe Genesis of the Daleks.

    Yea, I got the fanboy thrill at hearing the boys name, and it was great to see Julian Bleach back as the adult version. You enter this thinking you’re going to get one clash of the Titans and you end up with a different one.

    Loved the reentry of Missy and her casual “still alive, deal with it”. Actually liking some of her dialogue about her and the Doctors friendship a lot. Especially the human infatuation with sex, which may as well be some sort of slap in the face to a certain class of Missy complainer.

    Lots to sink in with this one. It took a meandering route to get where it wanted, but when it got there it was relentless.

    I think a few rewatches are in order before next week.

    #42945
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    Time Lord

    Talking of rock\Doctor Who images, this cheeky image released today made me laugh.

    abbey road

    Quite funny because Jenna is in Paul Mc position and is going barefoot. When Abbey Road was released the barefoot thing started this big old rumour that he was dead.

    #42903
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    Time Lord

    No problems @purofilion. I thought I’d post before going out for supplies for my ‘welcome back Doctor’ party.

    There are some lovely moments in this. I thought Bors was a great sidekick, particularly the

    Doctor: “I thought you were an idiot”
    Bors: “I thought I was as well”
    Doctor: “Good… I was worried I’d have to break it to you.”

    Lovely bit of business with the Tommy Cooper impression while playing with the coin as well. He was the original fez wearing magician, after all.

    tommy cooper

    #42899
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    Time Lord

    The follow on to this prequel The Doctor’s Meditation is now available to view on Dailymotion if anyone wants to have a look.

    After the oblique language and teasing of the first, I thought this a bit slighter, but very fun.

    #42878
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    Time Lord

    @pedant

    This is the one place they should feel safe.

    Coming from the number one source of strife on this site, that’s quite hilarious. Well done.

    I’m sure we would all welcome ideas about how we could secure the site against this sort of thing, but I’m not reading any so far.

    I’m afraid that Doctor and Companion casting is big news. Jenna has been on BBC radio and TV news. She’s in all the papers. Pretending this is something unusual when we knew Amy and Rory were leaving in series 7 is absurd. Look up this page to see people’s theories on the grisly nature of her exit before this news was announced. Let’s have some perspective here. This was entirely predictable.

    The only way to protect this site against someone willing to join just to post spoilers is to close the portal. You are free to argue this position. I await responses, but that is a decision above my pay grade.

    #42563
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    Time Lord

    Seven days to go and a prologue! A nicely ominous one to boot. Some random musings:

    Agreeing with @blenkinsopthebrave I get the feeling that more than one person is being referenced. The old friend who is the enemy, and the old enemy who could be a friend.

    Nice to see Karn again. Claire Higgins reprising her role from Night of the Doctor opposite Doctor 8. She was great in Hellraiser too, as @thekrynoidman suggested.

    The ovaloid disc thing the Doctor passed her looked a bit like the communicator bearing the seal of Rassilon from the Five Doctors, but last seen in Time of the Doctor, where eleven used it to translate the signal from the crack. A link to Gallifrey? I wonder who he intends her to give it to? The Master would seem to only one who’d have any interest.

    Looking good though,and I’ve managed to clear next weekend of troublesome work! Huzzah!

    #42394
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    Time Lord

    I’ve been watching a US series called Mr. Robot. It’s more than a little weird to the point that I’ve watched the series finale tonight and couldn’t tell you if I’d recommend it or not.

    It had some great music though. The penultimate epidode had a really engaging piano piece that haunted me for most of the week. Because I recognised it as something I’d heard before. But not quite. A bit of research and here is my relaxing Sunday morning tune:

    Here is the not so relaxing original:

    For no other reason than that this is The Pixies. Surely the most bizarre and intersting US band of the 80s? I will accept challenges to this point. Within reason.

    #42393
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    Time Lord

    Anyone got any new stuff that’s on their radar for the Autumn season they want to mention before series 9 kicks off? Just so I can record or download it as I don’t have a lot of time available.

    You don’t have a soul if you can’t let a bit of the Muppets into your life. The early promos seem to show they have captured the spirit of the old show. This ones for @purofilion

    I continue to watch The Walking Dead for it’s odd great moments. I was surprised to find myself watching the Pilot for Fear the Walking Dead, it’s spinoff\prequel. I’m a zombie bitch, obviously.

    Another horror thing which may become a guilty pleasue is Ash v the Evil Dead which, as someone who thinks The evil dead films are great comedy is going to be a Halloween Treat.

    #42390
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    Time Lord

    @pedant

    I once managed to make a member cry simply by asking “But what it is about?” (meaning what’s the theme?). I’m dead proud of that

    Good grief. Pride! Really?

    #42389
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    Time Lord

    Pratchett and Dickens? I like this conversation!

    I was a late convert to Dickens I’ll admit. Resistant for most of the reasons expressed by detractors on this thread until my 20s when I had a certain urge to reexamine certain aspects of Victoriana and it suddenly seemed to gel. Funny how that can happen, but all of a sudden it seemed funny in the right places and much more relevant

    @missy I have to agree with @miapatrick. Ignore the recommended ages and try the others as well. Pratchett grew as a writer over his career to the point his children\young adult books eclipsed his early adult books quite easily.

    I recently purchased his last book- The Shepherd’s Crown. Two weeks ago, if I’m honest, because it remains unopened. I’m telling myself I’m waiting for winter, long evenings, crisp air, etc. But the more likely explanation is that I don’t want this particular relationship between writer and reader to end. It’s lasted thirty years afterall. While I resist temptation I still have one book to read. Which is a marvelous feeling.

    Still, his last book continues the story of Tiffany Aching, young witch of the Discworld. It’s a compelling strand of five books which starts with Wee Free Men. An eight year old Tiffany storms the gates of faerie to rescue her snotty younger brother and a drippy son of a local nob. Armed with an iron frying pan and a band of the most violent fairies in existence. It was a story I intended to mention in the Last Christmas thread, simply because of the Dromes.The Dromes were amorphous blob men from another dimension living in fairie. Touch one and you enter a dream state where, if you don’t work your way out you’ll die, turn runny and become Dromes food.

    Tiffany gets the trick of them and uses one of them to form her own dream state to fight the Queen of the Fairies. A simple seaside scene in which the Pratchett pulls of one of his regular reversals, showing the Dromes in a new light as it becomes wistfully lost in her dream, with its dream sea and dream crabs. It’s one of a number of convergences between Pratchett and SMs Doctor Who work.

    There isn’t actually a young adult Pratchett book I wouldn’t recommend to all ages though. Through the Bromeliad Trilogy (Truckers, Diggers and Wings) to Johnny Maxwell or one offs like Dodger which brings us back to Dickens, as it features young Tosher (look it up) Dodger and his Jewish mentor meeting Dickens, who is actually presented in a way not often portrayed. The social campaigner, yes.But hard edged, cynical and a true ‘reporter’. Well worth a look.

    Oh. By the way. I gave up taking Jonathan Jones seriously when he criticised someones public artwork, without seeing it, while simultaneously giving his opinion that Damien Hurst was still the great rebel of the art world. This would have been laughable in the late 90s. This was in 2011. Nuff said?

    #42100
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    Time Lord

    @bluesqueakpip @lisa @blenkinsopthebrave @supernumerary @janetteb @purofilion

    I’m really interested to see how the Clara thing plays out as well. I honestly would like something a bit more than death this time though. I want optimism after all those bittersweet departures we’ve had to date.

    I was thinking about the return of Gallifrey and how both sides would need to change. @bluesqueakpip made the point that Rusty the Dalek may be the route for the Daleks, but what about the attitudes of Gallifrey? It takes two to tango, as it were.

    So @lisa saying Clara should go off to be the Doctor for another species is an interesting one. It should be for the Gallifreyans to get that Mirror vibe going, surely? The Doctor is an outsider for us, so he can point out our idiocies. The reason he can’t do the same thing for his own people is that there is too much baggage. The madman. The idiot. The one who barely scraped his exams. The boy who sobbed in his sleep.

    Clara could be that outsider and be the outsiders conscience on the lofty arrogance of the Time Lords. She could help then as she (in a long line of humans) has helped the Doctor. Giving them a caustic look when they make jokes about pudding brained other species, not taking their thoughts into account, and giving them the odd slap when they contemplate genocide. Her authority for this? She saved them from the Doctors judgement in the Time war. Hell, given the timey wimey nature of the universe she could have answered her own plea for more time in Time of the Doctor.

    So Clara being a Doctor for the Time Lords in the bubble universe, leaving him to deal with the actual one, I could see working and leaving us with a fond farewell. Optimism! Clara – the tiny terror of Gallifrey, slapping some sense into the Time Lords.

    I like that thought a lot.

    #42098
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    Time Lord

    @scaryb @jimthefish @xad4 @wolfweed

    Glad you all enjoyed it! I look forward to any snippets you can remember (hint hint) from the Q&A when the episode airs.

    Don’t look at the extra wait for part 2 as a drawback. Look at it as extra time to develop theories on how part 2 will go. 🙂

    #41985
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    Time Lord

    @craig @ichabod @purofilion

    That is a blast from the past. I was looking at the comments and having a good time because it was written well before Day of the Doctor.

    @missy

    The subject if how long Peter Capaldi will remain is the subject on the last entries of the News thread (link), so it would be helpful to read those, and keep discussion there I would think.

    #41859
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    Time Lord

    I have jet lag. I’m awake at 4:00 and thinking of the ramifications of the pricing of Doctor Who toys.

    The forthcoming day will only get weirder, I can tell. I’ll catch up on all the other posts later, I think.

    #41858
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    Time Lord

    @kaddc

    Hi – I have a small collection of the figures and can probably give some general advice. This is from the UK standpoint (we have a few different nationalities on the Forum) and in the expectation that you are talking about the 5 inch Character Options figures that were launched with the new series (and have grown to include the older series). I’m also anticipating that your child opened them up and played with the things as nature intended, rather than doing the collector approved thing of putting them in a shrine in their original packaging (which substantially increases the value).

    The best single piece of advice I can give you at the moment is to keep them for a while. Put them in a big crate and stick them in the attic or at the back of a cupboard. The reason for this is that the average 8 year old who bought those toys back in 2005/6 is now a teenager looking to put childish things away, going off to University, getting a job, or whatever. The toys were the success story of the period and lots were produced in large volumes. With all these kids hitting the “magic age” for selling on within the last few years, there is an abundance of them on the market. Take any car boot or market stall that sells second hand goods and you’ll find a lot of them going for £1 – £2 each.

    You’ll see prices like that on e-bay, as well as prices that are inflated, especially for niche figures that were ordered exclusively by people like Forbidden Planet (mainly the old series). At this point it’s really “what will I be offered” rather than “what are they worth”, because the manufacturer is still churning out figures, and what was once rare is becoming commonplace (for example this set of the Fourth Doctor, D84 and The Master, which were all “rare” last year is available currently from B&M for £12.99).

    The ones that consistently seem to fetch a considerable amount at the moment are the “build a figure” Figures. These were assembled from multiple packs with an arm or a leg, head, torso in with other figures to force you to buy them all to complete the set.

    The K1 Robot (big silver thing at the back) is valuable, as it required you to purchase all the other figure with it to assemble.

    So it’s quite common to see the K1 (Giant) Robot, Gelth phantom, Vespiform (giant wasp) and Cyber controller from a Second Doctor story going for considerable sums (£30 – £60).

    The main reason for the advice is that I was in a similar position once upon a time. At 17 I sold all my Star Wars stuff I’d been collecting since 7 for beer tokens when I went to University. I got a couple of hundred quid, which was OK in 87. Everybody else was selling stuff at the same time. It was a buyers market. If I’d waited for ten years it would have been a four figure sum. I could kick myself now, but hey – beer seemed more important at the time.

    In 10 years, some of the kids who sold decided their childhood obsessions were not so childish afterall, and started collecting. They wanted the originals. They were earning money and they would pay. The glut of figures had diminished (natural attrition – “dog ate my Stormtrooper, dad”, etc) and so the price went up.

    When I sold my stuff there were a couple of items I wanted to keep. They went into the attic with books, comics and magazines while I went off and had adventures. When I settled into a house 10 years later, the first thing my parents did was empty their loft into mine. That was a fun weekend ploughing through all the gems and rubbish I can tell you. A lot of happy memories awakened. The point of this is that I found something I didn’t want to part with. My “Giant Robot” produced by the company Denys Fisher in the 1970s.

    I showed it to a fellow fanboy who immediately, on the spot, offered me £80 for it. It’s worth a lot more even if it is unboxed. It’s not even a particularly well constructed figure, but it is a piece of history to him. Boxed at the moment, £300. Unboxed, £175. What will that build a figure version be worth in 10 years?

    So – wait for the rush to die down, sell later (if your daughter doesn’t go into gooey delights in 10 years and decide she is a collector after all) and get a lot more. Collectables is a waiting game.

    If however, you wish to continue to sell, I think this forum that specialises in these type of things may have more specific advice.

    Hope this helps, and good luck!

    #41675
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    Time Lord

    Are we filling in the blanks for Doctor 9? Hell yes, good suggestion @cathannabel.

    I watched this in the run up to Christmas for the first time in a Marathon of Chrimble episodes. For the first time I counted this one in the Christmas specials. It isn’t one, but it is. Watching it, I couldn’t help thinking that the early rushes of this may have sparked the thought in Jane Tranter that “A- this is going to work” and “B- This would be perfect for Christmas. Russell – can we have a Christmas special?”

    This was the momen t I fell in love with new Who, and even the farty aliens that followed couldn’t make me fall out again.

    I’ll agree completely. I wrote that I was still trying to gel with the pacing and style of the new series, but this one seemed to strike a chord in me as well. It’s our first trip to the past, Victoriana, and Simon Callow turning in a brilliant guest performance. As Dickens. Fighting alien Phantasmagoria. Yep – we are in “only Doctor Who could attempt to get away with this” territory. 😀

    Callow is seen as something of the authority on Dickens and Producer Phil Collinson was responsible for enticing him into the role I believe. He does a lot of one man shows inhabiting Dickens (a couple have been shown on BBC 4) and Collinson used the pretense of having him “review” the script to entice him into the part. As I’ve said before, the bigger actors who appeared in the first series deserve some credit for embracing the project. There were preconceptions hanging from the late 80s (accurate or not) and it was a leap of faith for them, because the show could have ended up some kind of embarrassment for all they knew. Callow was the first one to really go for it.

    @fowl (welcome back Barnable) has highlighted my favorite scene. The look of pleased vanity on Dickens face as the Doctor “gushes” always makes me laugh. The end is curiously optimistic for Dickens (given the deaths involved), and then we get the Doctor explaining to Rose that this is really the last Christmas he’ll see. It’s that curious bittersweet aspect that the best Who episodes can summon up.

    @thekrynoidman

    Honestly, with both this and Cold War, I don’t see why Gatiss’ writing has had such a negative reception with Who fans.

    I’m a big fan of Gatiss in both performance and writing, but I don’t think he’s written a killer script for Doctor Who yet, which is disappointing. His stuff is usually middle of the pack for me, every time he writes. This is the first episode of the new series that I thought “Ah yes… very good”, but then it was overshadowed by Dalek, Fathers Day and The Empty Child two parter, which all raised the stakes considerably.

    I think his “problem” (if I can call it that) is that he’s possibly more invested in legacy and what I’d call revisiting the past than other writers. If I can expand:

    During the Gap years we had the novels to supplement us (Virgin and BBC Books). He was most definitely a “trad” writer in that group (there were various divisions in the novel writers, trad(itional) v rad(ical), gun v frock, etc). His new stuff was often lackluster, and his real strength seemed to be capturing the essence and dynamics of old eras while giving you his spin on them. So you had the 2nd Doctor The Roundheads which is a rare historical that is pitch perfect. You had Last of the Gaderene for three which is just about the most Pertwee thing you could experience. It’s condensed Pertwee with great characterisation and some reflections that make you think “Ah – that was what those years were all about”. That is really a great skill in spin-off media. Wallow in nostalgia and make you look at the era in a new light.

    Then look at his writing work on Randall and Hopkirk (which updates The Avengers aesthetic), The League of Gentlemen (a love letter to past Horror), his work on adapting MR James and First Men in the Moon, and the fact that all his scripts for Doctor who have been set in the past and heavily reference other peoples approaches. I think Gatiss is brilliant at capturing the past, but I think he struggles with the present, and possibly may struggle in developing a forward looking approach to the show if he was selected as showrunner. He isn’t an initiator of ideas, if you will. His strength is an adapter and interpreter. Cold War and Crimson Horror are easily his best scripts for 11, because he’s had time to consider what has happened and the performance before, I think.

    Which really doesn’t matter at the end of the day, but I think it’s just an attempt to explain why I rarely get excited by his name in the credits.

    #41665
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    Time Lord

    @purofilion

    I actually resisted seeing the first Burton Batman film for quite a while. It was possibly the most aggressive advertising campaign that Warner ever launched and it just put me off.

    I generally like Burtons work (the Dark Goth Fairytale stuff works for me) but I can’t help thinking the first film showed signs of “engineering for success” by the studio. I think we both agreed that Jack Nicholsons performance (and Kubricks focus on it) harmed The Shining. It’s a similar proposition here, I think. Add in that much hyped Prince Soundtrack (which doesn’t really suit the aesthetic at all) and it comes across as a bit forced.

    The casting of Micheal Keaton as Batman, on the face of it, seems pretty weird because the script doesn’t leave him much to do in the first film. There was a “conspiracy theory” about the time of the movie that the original concept drew upon one of the most famous graphic novels of the time, a prestige “one off” called The Killing Joke by Alan Moore (which is one I’d suggest to @thekrynoidman – check out second hand comics stores. Is the bookstall in Grainger Market still in Newcastle? Killing Joke has been reprinted that many times you can usually find good used copies of it)

    It’s about the position of Batman and Joker as Nemesis. Flip sides of a coin. The suggestion was that the original concept would have been Keaton playing both roles to emphasise this point. That sounds pretty weird until you remember that Keaton had appeared in Burtons Beetlejuice the year before this. Because what is that character except a high octane supernatural Joker? The theory goes that Nicholson was cast on studio orders as a “big name”. If this is true or not is kind off irrelevant now, but it is an enticing “what if?”.

    The second film is much better, but it is interesting that Keaton, while his part is augmented, still comes off poorly in scene setting by the “villains” of the piece, Danny Devito, Michelle Pfeiffer and Rutger Hauer. The soundtrack for the second jettisoned Prince and featured a one off by legendary Punk/Goth Siouxsie and the Banshees (I think I’ll post the video on the music thread later). I agree with @jimthefish that it comes across as a better (or at least more well balanced) film.

    I actually like the first two Nolan films. Ledger gives an astonishing turn as The Joker in the second. The only drawback is the legacy aspect. It’s an approach that many sought to emulate very quickly and we had a generation of that type of character. It shouldn’t rob Ledger of that performance though.

    #41664
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    Time Lord

    @purofilion

    I won’t particularly pretend to understand Cricket in any meaningful way, but I used to be entertained by cricket coverage in the 80s and 90s by the presence of Richie Benaud as a commentator in the UK. It was hilarious because there was no pretence of being an impartial voice in these matters – Australia all the way.

    The thing was though that even during the period when “England Cricket disaster” was a regular feature of sports headlines he could be immensely caustic about Australia’s performance when they were winning! A couple of favourites include:

    “Captaincy is 90 per cent luck and 10 per cent skill, But don’t try it without that 10 per cent”

    “And Glenn McGrath dismissed for two, just ninety-eight runs short of his century!”

    It’s probably for the best he passed away earlier this year because, if he’d witnessed last week the venom from him would have melted every radio in the nation!

    #41662
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    Time Lord

    @eyeofharmony

    Hi – If the sound effect is the one I think you mean, it’s not that new – it’s a creation of the Radiophonic Workshop from the sixties and has been used frequently since then up until the present day. The best way I can describe it is an “electronic heartbeat”.

    This page contains a number of mp3s for Doctor Who ripped from a radiophonic soundtrack album (yes – you could actually buy a Doctor Who sound effects album in the 70s! We made our own entertainment before t’internet 😀 ) and I think the second one (Dalek Control room) is the droid you’re looking for.

    #41441
    PhaseShift @replies
    Time Lord

    @bluesqueakpip @purofilion

    As well as those excellent examples of gender swapage he also made the head of The Church of the Papal Mainframe (the ‘Pope’) a Mother Superious. Surely one of the biggies in Gender roles?

    He also had Pagen equivalents of the King and Queen of the Trees declare that women are strong and men are weak, which as far of longevity\survival of DNA (Mitochondrial) is certainly true. Nature is no respector of equal opportunities.

    Just on Missy\Master, I think the line “well I could hardly keep calling myself the Master, could I?” indicated they were dealing with a new concept.

    #41437
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    Time Lord

    @arbutus

    And the “Is the Doctor a good Dalek?” question is actually a pretty universal question to ask of anyone who has taken on the battle against evil. We ask questions like in real life all the time: What is acceptable in the fight against evil? Do we hate the sin and love the sinner, so to speak? Who is the enemy and are they redeemable? And so on. I’m not expressing this in the best way, but it makes sense to me to ask if the Doctor, in his absolute hatred of the Daleks, risks becoming like them.

    Yes – I think that’s the fascinating aspect of that relationship. I think Stephen Moffat posed it as “can you fight the monsters without becoming one”. I think it’s an interesting point that in this episode there was a reference to his first meeting the Daleks on Skaro making him realise who he was. I think we both responded on The Daleks, but it is worth looking at the other stories of the Hartnell era.

    In The Dalek Invasion of Earth, it’s the first recurring monster, and the first time the Doctor steps up to the plate and tells them he’s here to beat them, becoming more the hero. It’s also the first companion leaving, his Granddaughter Susan, which is mythology itself.

    In The Chase they become the first adversary to be able to follow the Doctor and play on his turf. We lose his first two human companions, and the ones who have had a big impact on him as he returns them to their own time.

    I mentioned in the exchange on faith/belief that there is an interesting period in Season 3 which plays out over more than 4 months in serial form, and seems to question directly the Doctors role as hero and, perhaps, his “godly” status. It’s really frustrating that all I have to go on are audio/reconstructions and novelisations. If @blenkinsopthebrave is around he may be able to confirm if I’m on track with this.

    It starts with a Doctor Absent story – Mission to the Unknown. A Battle with the Daleks, and mini-prequel to their next story. The Doctor doesn’t appear. Carnage. The Doctor is not omnipresent.

    We go to The Myth Makers and the Doctor gives the Greek army the idea of the Wooden Horse at Troy. His foreknowledge is limited though, which is rather clever. The historical/mythical perspective tend to focus on the cleverness of the Greeks, and gullibility of Troy and how this clever stratagem ended a long conflict abruptly. The Doctor discovers it does indeed – in a slaughter in which he barely escapes alive. He loses his replacement for Susan – Vicki, who goes off to forge myths of her own as Cressida.

    He gets Katarina as an inadvertent replacement. A slave who thinks she’s died and crossed the boundary to meet the Gods. She thinks The Doctor is a God. The Doctor tells her he isn’t, but I couldn’t help feeling from the audio that Hartnell is playing it as if he’s secretly loving it really. It plays to The Doctors immense ego. He reassures her she will be safe, and he’ll protect her. A few episodes into The Dalek MasterPlan she’s dead. Self sacrificing to save the team from an escaped criminal. It’s brutal, it really is. The first companion of the Doctor (even if briefly) to die. Things get worse as allies get killed and we wind up with a damaged Steven and The Doctor on a destroyed world, stripped of all life. The last beings standing.

    It’s then capped by The Massacre. Steven questioning himself, The Doctor and events. Is it worth it all. A doppelgänger of the Doctor appears to be zealous Catholic Abbot of Amboise. Plotting to massacre the of Protestants in 16th Century France. Steven, the Doctors sole companion at this point, has had his faith in the Doctor tested significantly and is disgusted by the Doctors lack of action in The Massacre. Imagine the Fires of Pompeii without the aliens and the Doctor not listening to Donna begging him to save someone. Steven is ready to leave the TARDIS at the next stop. What gives him pause is that, walking away in 1966 he meets Dodo Chaplet, a doppelgänger of Anne Chaplet, a young girl who he particularly wanted to save from the events in The Massacre. While it doesn’t particularly hold to close scrutiny, I think the clear intention is that Dodo is from the same lineage as Anne. Anne survived to have children, and this is some small reassurance to Steven. It could have been the first Clara storyline! “This Dodo is the impossible girl! Let’s investigate!” (this is 1 billion times more interesting than anything they ever actually did with Dodo).

    So I think that run can probably be recognised as the start of so many of the themes that the AG years played with. The Doctor isn’t a god – he’s not omnipresent or omniscient. He’s fallible and in trying to fight the good fight can leave devastation in his wake. Like his lookalike the Abbot, can the Doctor be a zealot in his battle with the Daleks? Blind faith in him, like Katarina’s, can be a dangerous thing. Truly astonishing work in 60s television.

    But I think that, fan of the Daleks or not, this is why they are intrinsically linked to the Doctor. On their own merits they fail. Terry Nation tried everything to sell them in the US. What they lacked was The Doctor, because their story is linked absolutely, even before they went to war with his people. Its mythological and the current series is building on that groundwork done in the 60s.

    #41422
    PhaseShift @replies
    Time Lord

    While I was going through the JS posts I came across a small reference by @whisht to Dune, which reminded me I read a great little piece in the G a few weeks back which I’d meant to post a link to about the 50th anniversary of the Book.

    I was wondering where to post it – Books, Film or TV, but settled here. I was 9 when I first tried to read it, and gave up pretty quickly. I went back to it after the David Lynch film of 1984 (the one that took Dino D Laurentis to the brink) came out and I saw it on the new fangled home video recorders. I do have a real soft spot for the book and think it’s right to celebrate it. It’s pretty sprawling with some great mythic themes. It’s also a book I think that it’s worth revisiting at different points of your life as I constantly see different emphasis in certain parts of it.

    The Lynch film is also a weirdly compulsive pleasure, although its faults are huge. Some of the casting is great. Patrick Stewart as Gurdey Halleck for example, and I think Brad Dourif as the Harkonnan psychopathic Mentat, Piter De Vries, is superb. The acting is so stylised in places though it can make you wince. And whoever thought that Sean Young was a compelling actress deserves a stern talking to. The ultimate triumph of the film though is in the set and concept design for the various societies. It’s no wonder that the iconography of the film was adopted in the series of Dune computer games by Westwood Studios (which were some of the first to specially film inserts to drive a narrative focus for a plot and give you a rest between the various levels of carnage).

    I also have a soft spot for the TV attempt. It’s low budget and it shows in places, but does have a lot more room to sell the story of the fall and rise of the Atreides family. Alec Newman is actually better in the Paul role than Kyle MacLachlan, and his change from comfortable inheritor of the family name to tortured leader trying to navigate a path to the future which avoids the bloodshed of the Jihad he perceives will come is great.

    The series also did a followup combining the two immediate sequels Dune Messiah, and Children of Dune. In which we last see him as the heretical prophet laying into his own false myth. It’s well worth a look if anyone is interested, and for its relatively small budget delivers some nice set pieces. This is from the first episode of Children of Dune (which is Dune Messiah really). The various factions of the Houses are conspiring to usurp Paul and, while his wife gives birth, it’s time to sort out the conspirators in a night of the long knives. Yes, that is Steven Berkoff who gets the honor of killing the Mother Superior of the Bene Gesserit. Wonderful wordless montage set to music.

    Above all though, try the book. The follow ups show a law of diminishing returns, but I do think the original is still something very special.

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    @suzannems

    Of course you are allowed to hate the Daleks. So does the Doctor. You can hate the Cybermen, Borg Collective and Hammy the Hamster if you like.

    I think using six occasions of “hate/hated” in one small paragraph (including an out of show reference) is to probably invite a response to take a drink or consume a “chill pill” though, isn’t it? It’s YouTube and IMDB classic comment fodder. The Moderator side of me is usually suspicious when someone jumps immediately in this situation to “Requirement of the forum” and accusations of “snarky and patronizing”. An attempt to upscale a fairly innocuous comment to “duel” status.

    Let’s talk Doctor Who, or let’s talk about the Forum. The usual form for the later is accusations of Clique-ness, being an attack site, etc. Very dull, and if we’re going down that path, let’s cut to the chase and get on with it.

    #41420
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    @jimthefish

    Definitely try to make time. I ended up wishing I’d watched it earlier, if only to partake in more discussions on it. After a couple of episodes of setup it really gets into its stride. Well done to @bluesqueakpip for actions on other boards. Some interesting points.

    #41414
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    @janetteb @bluesqueakpip (and other Jonathan Strange viewers)

    I just wanted to thank @janetteb for doing a marvellous sales job on Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell. I recorded the episodes, but I’ve been late in consuming them and as such only finished it yesterday.

    I’ve never read the book, but the TV series has enthused me enough to want to give it a go later this year. It’s a great production and I think everyone involved should be proud of developing such a complex and layered tale for the screen. It reeks “class” in just about every way.

    I think I’ll lament the fact that it didn’t seem to find a larger audience (although I’ve not seen timeshift and I-Player records, so don’t know if it shares the Doctor Who timeshift upsurge) but ultimately the BBC are the one institution where audience figures are not the “be and end all”. If they were, then many series that a rightly considered classics (such as BlackAdder) would never have got beyond first series.

    I can’t help but think the philosophy of releasing it in the Summer was similar to the first series of Sherlock. In a traditionally “dead” time for new series, it would become a breakout success by word of mouth. Sherlock also benefited by an immediate repeat at Christmas that year, and I think Jonathan Strange will get the same treatment. The “Fairytale” feel of it is perfect for it I’d think.

    Ultimately though, this is a quality, well thought out project that will sell well and have a longevity of its own. I think the cast was spectacular in most regards. Marc Warren has really impressed me this year. His turn as Comte de Rochefort in Musketeers being an excellent example of lip curling menace that suits the slightly camp adventure feel of that project. His turn as the Gentleman in this though is magnetic.

    Ronan Vibert as Wellington was a peculiar delight. I remember him turning in an excellent controlled menace turn as Robespierre in the Richard E Grant fronted The Scarlet Pimpernel (another great romp of a show). The war sequences in this, I think, were particularly effective. The overhead CGI shot of Waterloo that opens the Arabella episode (5) is CGI not to the standard of movies, but its effective as you see the battle squares of the armies and the carnage of battle. Have a clip:

    If this is a project (like Jekyll for Steven Moffat) which shows a creative force is ready to helm the complicated “big beast brand” of Doctor Who, then Harness pulled it off. Magnificently.

    If you’ve not seen it, seek it out. The central proposition of the story – how Strange and Norrell see the role of magic actually has some adroit similarities with the role of Science during the same period, as Science is harnessed for War in the Age of Reason, Magic is harnessed in the Age of Unreason, perhaps.

    Just a note on Susannah Clarke. Although I’ve not read this, as it turns out I’ve read a couple of her stories. She contributed a short to the Neil Gaiman Sandman mythos in The Sandman: Book of Dreams. Stopp’t-Clock Yard. Her short story The Duke of Wellington Misplaces His Horse first saw light as a contribution to a project by the artist Charles Vess who collaborated with Neil Gaiman on his Books of Magic (the third volume, which dealt with Faerie) and Stardust (which became the movie). The story is set in the Village of Wall, which borders Faerie and is featured in Stardust. Which all goes to prove nothing, apart that it’s a small Multiverse. 🙂

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    I apologise for calling you out on your metal aversion @whisht. Glad to hear you’ve enjoyed ACDCs Back in Black. Have you heard any of their earlier stuff with Bon Scott? As it’s a quiet Sunday morning, have something mellow:

    In a similar vein of metal showing its roots, and cosmic things, here is Black Sabbath’s Planet Caravan from their Paranoid album. Truly music to get stoned to.

    @purofilion

    The Church! I know their output well, and I’ve got all their albums and more than a few singles on vinyl from Unguarded Moment onwards. I guess if anyone remembers them in the UK it would be for Under the Milky Way which got a bit of airplay at the time and then later in the film Donnie Darko. Another, relaxing cosmic track. I do like this version:

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    In celebration of New Horizons reaching Pluto, I’ll repost a video for Pluto Drive by The Creatures (Siouxsie Sioux s other band). A great achievement by the NASA team.

    Just look at the pretty pictures!

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    2015 continues to be a shit year for actors I’ve enjoyed. Sadly Aubrey Morris has passed away.

    Not as high profile as others, but Morris always delighted in some very odd roles. Loved him as the bath addicted captain of the B-ark in Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy. He made a nice appearance in Babylon 5 as well (not a fantastic episode, but he was always wonderful) because JMS was a fan of his work.

    Sadface.

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    Morning all. I’m only in briefly as I travel again tonight. While I was away I was mulling the religious question, faith, etc. As ever, some wonderful responses to this question but I’m conscious that this is the third time (I think) a general question has been raised along these lines and we’ve had an extended discussion on the Sofa or another thread, reiterating very similar points.

    A little nagging voice suggests to me that “all this has happened before, and all of this will happen again” (to paraphrase Battlestar Galactica). Given the level of knowledge and perspectives we have on the site, is it worth trying to open up a new forum thread – Say Faith, Philosophy, Myth and Reason in Doctor Who or a Blog? A Forum thread has the benefit that we can move existing posts (and potentially recurring discussions) to the appropriate place (we can’t do this on blogs). It may save a bit of time in the future.

    While giving this some thought, I actually revisited some stuff I wrote a while ago about the old series, and particularly Religious portrayal and faith in the original series. Needs some work, but I’d actually forgotten some stuff particularly where the original stories are missing (there is an interesting period in Season 3 in which Stevens faith in the Doctor as hero is tested almost to destruction that is quite nice). Also the religious imagery in RTDs and SMs run (where “a” Church, or factions thereoff is a kind of big bad for series 5-7 and the Smith specials) – almost a conflict of mythologies.

    Any thoughts? (and this is particularly directed to the original participants of the discussion or anybody else interested).

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    @jimthefish @purofilion @xtremez

    Jim, there was also the “we don’t need the Americans, they’ll only start praying” dig at Dubbya in Death in Heaven.

    I do agree that it is slighly peculiar this desire to make Doctor Who a religious parable. Funny that we’ve been touching on the Norse elements that cropped up in Series 5 & 6 which we all saw as SMs desire to end the GodDoctor elements.

    As we’ve both mentioned you could mount a more effective argument of the Doctor as Buddhist rather than a follower of any of the Abrahamic religions. I think the Kaled Gods of War get more mentions, and I can’t see him at any of their meetings either. 🙂

    I’ve seen bits of Trek get pulled into this type of thing, but you just have to mentin that Kirk killed God in Star Trek 5, because Shatner decided the Universe wasn’t big enough for both his and Gods ego!

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    @purofilion

    Hey, you’ve made it to ‘Pip'(chiana)! I apologise for the delay in a season 1 blog, but work has been a little crazy. I’m out from tonight but will aim to post some thoughts later this week.

    + @ichabod

    I think The Shining is one of my passions. I’m ambivalent about some of Kings work, but he was on fire during that period. For our English Lit O Level at 16 we had an oral exam in which we had to advocate a book we’d recommend as essential reading. The Shining was mine and I hotheadedly proclained that it should transcend the pigeon hole of ‘Horror’ and grace the syllabus alongside To Kill a Mockingbird and Catch 22 as a modern classic. It’s such a meaty book for discussion and analysis.

    I think the film is ok as far as it goes. Kubrik basically said his interest was in the disintegration of Torrence, and you can marvel at that central performance and the pure class of the film techniques, but that focus on one character is to the detriment of the others who all seem short changed. The book really is rich in detail and the perspectives of Halloran, Danny and his mum are sadly lost.

    Plus Topiary animals! The precursors of the Weeping Angels! The book wins hands down.

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    @bluesqueakpip

    I go for ‘inveterate bullshitter’

    It’s brilliant that we watch a show that we can use that term endearingly for our hero, isn’t it? I agree, 10 in full bullshit mode.

    @major33

    I actually know a kid who followed up the Roentgen link on his computer and learned about safe doses for X-Rays and much more.

    Doctor Who can still spark a line of enquiry for the interested. Dose in radiation is key. Someone who lives in Aberdeen will soak up a natural dose from the granite beneath their feet to set alarms off in a nuclear power plant.

    You, youself, are a gamma emitor. The potassium that lines your nervous system contains potassium 40. Approx 4000 disintigrations of this occur per day. The disintigration of potassium 40 releases a beta plus particle. A positron, Yer actual antimatter. It annihalates in the body to produce gamma rays you shoot at other people.

    The universe is truly bizarre and strange. The Doctor could never stop running could he?

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    @jimthefish

    That’s very kind Jim. When I heard the news about Macnee I thought I may have tempted fate by highlighting Christopher Lee in The Avengers. 🙁

    With the loss of Macnee, Moody, Lee, Nimoy (surely the absolute redeeming feature of Trek) and Pratchett I’m willing, halfway through 2015 to declare it “annus horribilis” for genre. If Tom Baker goes, I’m going on a rampage.

    Great choice with Honey for the Prince. He was in another, The Bird who knew too much, but I think Honey is the better. And Macnee on top form.

    Everyone Watch it.

    “By Your Command”.

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    @ichabod

    I’m up to Episode 9 of Penny Dreadful, and with a couple of concerns this has been a stellar run for the series.

    It is a great turn by Danny Sapani as Sembene, and it must be nice for him to have a role that doesn’t involve the hero of the story exhort children everywhere to shout “Colonel Runaway” at him. 🙂 Poor Colonel Manton.

    I haven’t really come across the “Magic Negro” thing you discuss, although the “mystical noble savage” is a hangover from Victorian literature I certainly recognize. I think the next episode of PD will shape a response to whether Sembene is one or not, as the show plays some character cards close to its chest until it is fitting to reveal them.

    I’m mightily confused by the chef Halloran in The Shining being considered that way though. Astonished. I could see it in the film, perhaps (it was a point of contention between King and Kubrick), but the book?

    Halloran questions himself why he is drawn to help Danny, and his race is an issue in that deliberation (the Outlook’s last mental assault tries to reawaken his natural resentment in a book set in the decade after the civil rights battles). In reflecting on his life though, we see that the “shiners” are all drawn to one another sensing kinship of a kind. One example is the maid in the hotel who sought him out to tell him of the “thing” she saw in one of the rooms. She didn’t really know him, but he’s the one person she tells everything to.

    On Halloran’s dashto Danny he meets an unusual amount of Shiners who help him in some way to achieve his goal. A coincidence, or are the outsiders (of whatever race) with the “shining” ability drawn when Danny lets go with his psychic scream? Halloran is a great character, whose life story and conflict with race was explored in IT where his first restaurant was burned down by an offshoot of “The Klan”. If he’s a magic Negro, we need to accommodate the magic Jew and the magic Redkneck who help him aid the magic white kid. The point of the story surely is that certain similarities and connections show genetic differences to be redundant? A great novel, to my mind, and that criticism of it should be treated with deep suspicion.

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    @purofilion

    I hope you haven’t given up on Farscape. On the “torture” issue, I think I’m correct in thinking it was @ichabod who raised it as a concern, but I didn’t get any sense of where they stopped watching. It is a feature, but I will point out that we are talking about a show which went out at the same time uncut as Buffy (6pm) on BBC2, which I’d say features similar elements of mild physical and mental torture. It starts at the end of the first series, which introduces us to a new character (Scorpius) and his “comfy chair”.

    There is nothing as strong as the confrontation between Faith and Wesley in Angel, and it certainly not Jack Bauer conducting DIY Guantanamo in 24.

    Browder is great at conventions. Just very enthusiastic about his projects and he is a geek. He spent a period in London for his acting studies, and married Francesca Buller (largely an English theater actor, but she appears in some great roles in the show). He has some great anecdotes about going out on the lash with a fellow student – Gary Oldman.

    Yes – he appeared in Who in the series 7 episode “A Town Called Mercy” as the Sheriff, Isaac. The pictorial evidence below:

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    @crieshavok (@purofilion @whisht)

    It’s always interesting to hear “headcanon” ideas for the Doctors formative years, and if the Enders Game analogy works for you, go with it.

    My own has evolved over the years somewhat, and I actually could see an analogue in a fairly recent book (no laughing at the back) in Harry Potter and the Deathly Assassin Hallows.

    We know that the Master and the Doctor were friends at the Academy. We also know that, at the start of Doctor Who, he isn’t the hero of his own story. Ian and Barbara are really. His transformation into hero is gradual over the first couple of series, with Dalek invasion of Earth being the first time he meets a foe he recognises, steps up to the plate, stares down a Dalek and says “I’m here to beat you” (to paraphrase).

    We know he “got into a bit of bother” before legging it with Susan from Gallifrey (Deadly Assassin) and that the Time Lords have a telepathic region of the mind which can network with other Time Lords. Except that the Doctor had that bit somehow “deactivated” when “they kicked me out” (Invisible Enemy).

    In the Harry Potter books, one of kindly old Professor Dumbledores achievements is listed as the defeat by dual of the Dark Wizard Gellert Grindelwald. In the final book it’s revealed that they were adolescent friends and shared a desire to use magic to make the world better (It’s also heavily implied that Dumbledore was attracted to Gellert). Suppressing non-magical “Muggles” for “The Greater Good” for Dumbledore, darker reasons for Grindelwald. In the end, their is a horrible event that leaves a stain on Dumbledore which makes him repent.

    I kind of see that as a good analogy for the Master and Doctor. Both having a desire to use the powers of Time Lords in a forbidden interventionist way, but the Doctor telling himself it was for the greater good. This led to an unspoken event which saw him marginalised before escape from Gallifrey, and a 50 year history of trying to be the good man. “I’m not a good man. A good man wouldn’t need so many rules.”

    And this is where I think both RTD and SM got it right. Both have implied that it’s the Doctor, not the Master who has significantly changed in their life cycles. Missy talks of “wanting her friend back”. Back, being allied to her viewpoint. That using Time Lord knowledge to suppress other species is the best way to bring order to the Universe.

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    @major33

    Ah, the old “absorb the radiation into the shoe” conundrum.

    It’s not a trick or power that any other Doctor has demonstrated, although a couple of them have claimed a higher tolerance to radiation than mere mortals. It’s also worth pointing out that the Third Doctor suffered radiation poisoning which led him to regenerate.

    Ten specifically mentions Roentgen radiation in Smith and Jones (that’s what we technically call the “arse end” of the electromagnetic spectrum – x-rays, gamma waves and cosmic rays). That doesn’t include things like Beta particles which are high energy electrons with are both penetrative (unlike alpha, which your skin absorbs) and more likely to damage tissue. There are also a number of fictional radiations in the Whoniverse.

    So you could say it was the wrong sort of radiation. Or perhaps the dose was more than a shoe could take?

    Or you could say that the Doctor, being an inveterate bullshiter on occasion, was out to impress a potential new candidate for the open position of companion? He was in no danger from that particular dose in Smith and Jones, knew it, and decided to go for “Odd”.

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    Welcome news for River Song fans who want to see her matched up with another Doctor. Might not be the “one you were expecting” though.

    Apparently Big Finish have access to Professor River Song now in an agreement over story ideas with Steven Moffat. She’ll be meeting Doctor Eight in Doom Coalition 2 (the latest story strand in their Eighth Doctor adventures). How this will work in practice will be interesting. She’ll be played by Alex Kingston, so this Timey-Wimey incursion may be out of phase (and thus leading to memory loss so Doctor 10 doesn’t recognise her). While I would have preferred to see a meeting like that on screen, it’s nice to know that the characters longevity in one form or another is guaranteed, and it doesn’t preclude other screen appearances.

    I think it’s good news for Big Finish personally. This agreement also sees a number of new series creations meeting old Doctors for the first time (for example, Peter Davison is set to encounter the Weeping Angels). It may help breath a little diversity into the range.

    Also on the cards is Ian McNeice as Churchill relating his various off screen encounters with the Doctor. The blurb mentions tales with Nine, Ten and Eleven (with a meeting with the Young Sardick set in A Christmas Carol). Personally (for once) I hope they include some references to Six, as Terrance Dicks wrote a good novel called Players which dealt with Six jumping about Churchill’s timeline as someone seems intent on killing him. As Colin Baker is on the books so to speak, it would be an interesting one. Players was Dicks attempt to show how he would have done Six, and it does work for me (even with my “issues” regarding six).

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    @fatmaninabox

    Belated congratulations from me as well. With me not being around at home for extensive periods my back garden is descending into woodland territory. I may need to consult with you as I fear I may have a stray Krynoid wandering about.

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    @purofilion

    You know, I’ve never watched Farscape with subtitles, and I think I may have missed a trick there. The dialogue bubbles along in many places, and it is easy to miss things.

    I think I can re-assure you that all the questions on your list will be answered, and in the case of bodily effluvia perhaps in a “too much information” kind of way. One of the things about this first series is that we know the score to a certain extent. We have a disparate group of people who don’t initially have much in common, but in that fine tradition are going to have to learn to bond together. At the start they are hiding aspects of their pasts from everyone else and live isolated lives in this enormous ship. This gradually starts to change and we get to see the group becoming more social.

    The Yoda reference from I ET is lovely, and marks the start of John becoming the king of pop culture references to Sci-Fi. I think one of the strengths of the character is that, to all intents and purposes he’s a nerd who is a bit buff and looks good in tight leather trousers. This should be his dream come true (meeting other life forms), but it descends into a nightmare.

    @fatmaninabox is quite right about the early releases. Early adopter syndrome I guess as when DVDs first came out they could be expensive. In fact, I think we forget that if you collected say, Star Trek TNG on video, you’d buy a tape with two episodes on for £9.99 – £11.99, That would be 12 or 13 tapes per season, so it’s not that much more than was conventional at the time. The one thing I’ll praise about those releases though is the nature of the special features that they came with. One-on-one interviews with the cast, features on the Jim Henson workshop and a wealth of material. Many of the features were specially prepared for the DVDs and it was one of the first shows to take that approach. Many of these features don’t feature on the later box sets (there wouldn’t be room) but have made it onto Youtube etc.

    @arbutus

    Hey! Another watcher! You can certainly trace many aspects of the character setups to other shows (D’Argo initially being a bit Klingon for instance) but it then subverts the characters in different directions.

    I’m sure you both recognise Ben Browder from appearing in Doctor Who series 7 (Isaac in A Town called Mercy). Zhaan (the Blue Empath) is played by Virginia Hey who gave a head turning (for teenage boys as I was) performance as the blonde warrior woman in Mad Max 2 (the Road Warrior).

    Who do we reckon would win in a “tongue off” between D’Argo and Madame Vastra? 😀

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    @purofilion

    What the hell is this place John whatshisname is in? (forty frickin bucks for a season and they can’t throw in subtitles?)

    I see you’ve taken the Beans option for meals then? 🙂 I did laugh when I read your comment, because I think most people would say the same thing.

    It’s funny because the creators tried to make the Pilot quite a shock to the system with few concessions up front. Basically they wanted the viewer to experience a similar kind of culture shock to John as he lurches from one first contact situation to another, with no-one in any particular hurry to welcome a bloke from “Erf” to the Universe. It’s quite a risky approach in a way, and I’ve often wondered if people have actually been put off from the first viewing.

    I think you may have watched a couple more episodes, and you’ll probably have guessed they are going out of their way to reinforce the fact that John is the real “alien” in this setup (the second episode is a nice little play on ET). He’s completely out of his depth, and this first season introduces us to species, characters and concepts that will play out in the future. Like all first series, it occasionally struggles for tone at times, as it tries to find its own voice.

    Feel free to comment on episodes as they come up. I won’t be back until Friday morning I think, but catching up on your thoughts is something to look forward to, and I’ll put some thought into a season 1 blog.

    Happy viewing!

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    @nick @jimthefish @lisa @purofilion

    Ha! Many thanks for the kind words on the Gallifrey theory. I’m guessing this is an undercurrent of SMs arc about where Gallifrey is, and I do like the thought.

    @nick – especially glad to see you about. Hope you have resolved the medical issues.

    @jimthefish – Oh, I agree an explanation isn’t really necessary, but I quite like coming up with them every now and again. I find the different approaches shows take to the science part of fiction/fantasy to be interesting, and I’m quite glad Doctor Who doesn’t really go there these days.

    @purofilion

    is now a ‘thing’ as is @phaseshift‘s Handwavium Technobabble (HwT)

    Yes, The Phaseshift advanced school of Spurious Chemistry does a short course in the “Unlikely Periodic Table” which features all those ultra rare elements that regularly crop up in Science Fiction to get over problems.

    Handwavium (Hw) is one of the Ignoble elements and has an extremely short half life. So short it Narratively can only be invoked once before disappearing into another Universe. So, for example, this possible scene from ST:TNG invokes the Handwavium isotope called Chlorium.

    Mr Worf: “Captain, Engineering have confirmed our supplies of Chlorium Hydroxide have been filtered to remove the presence of tachyon particles. Our artificial gravity systems should now be stable for the next 7 series.”
    Captain Picard: “Excellent Mr. Worf. I shall note in my log that the writers need not attempt to explain how we have artificial gravity ever again.”

    Lots of other Narratively suspect elements exist (we are on six at the moment) but my favourite is

    Neinsteinium (Nn), the element of the Alkali Earth-or-Earth-Like-Planet Metals that exists solely to say “Nein” to Einstein, and get past his pesky speed limit for the universe. Want to travel Faster than Light, enter Hyperspace, Warp Space or Build a Stargate for Wormholes? Then you need new and improved Neinsteinium. Accept no substitutes! 😀

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    @jimthefish

    Some interesting thoughts on Daredevil. I think, ultimately, that if it all falls over in series 2, then Series 1 would be enough for me to want to own as a standalone project. It’s interesting that I think it was written that way, in case it didn’t prove to be popular. The birthstory of two characters told in a new way but drawing on the mythology.

    As such, there are a few interesting strands about the mythical battle that are ripe for exploitation now.

    #40616
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    In tribute to Christopher Lee, I think everyone has concentrated on his film work, which is fair enough really. I thought it was delightful that he maintained an active interest in some TV projects for the sheer hell of it though. It’s interesting that he characterised the work of Hammer as being more “gothic dark fairytale” than horror (he was pretty damning on the current state of horror films) and you can see that attraction for “dark fairytale” in much of the work he did since. So anyway, here are a couple you can try if you fancy sampling his TV works (I’m thinking of having a binge watch).

    1967 The Avengers – Never, Never Say Die
    Lee with Steed and Mrs Peel
    A great appearance in a great run of the show with Steed and Mrs Peel investigating reports of a man who can seemingly survive being run over. Lee obviously having a bit of fun with his established images from Hammer. It’s interesting that Lee and McNee went to the same prep school as Children and appeared for the first time on stage together.

    1995 Discworld – Soul Music

    When Cosgrove Hall tried to bring the Discworld to life in animated form, they needed someone who could talk in block capital gothic script. Lee is the obvious choice, and as a fan of the books jumped in with both feet. I don’t thing Cosgrove got the tranlations quite right for screen, but Soul Music is very enjoyable as Death goes AWOL for personal reasons. Lots of good musical pastiches as well. To lose both pTerry and the authentic voice of Death in one year is a double blow for the Discworld. Have a clip as Death joins the Klatchian Foreign Legion in an attempt to forget.

    2000 Gormenghast

    Lee was one of the driving forces behind this adaptation when he was cast as Flay. I think it’s great and yes – the Dark Fairytale of the books is captured on screen. @jimthefish reminded me a while ago that Neve Macintosh is another bonus in this as Fuchsia, in an astonishing lineup of on screen talent. It’s four parts to savour. Have another clip:

    What’s sad is that there were rumours that Lee might make a guest appearance in Who, which we’ll sadly never know now. I mean, while I enjoyed REG as the Great Intelligence in Series 7, I do think Lee would have been an astonishing fit for that role.

    #40613
    PhaseShift @replies
    Time Lord

    @whisht has already posted a musical tribute to Ron Moody on the General Music thread, and mentioned that one of his regrets was that he turned down the role of the Third Doctor.

    A decade later than that decision, Ron Moody went on to appear in a TV Show called Into the Labyrinth which @wolfweed mentioned way back at the start of the first part of this forum. It’s well worth a quick look at if anybody wonders how he may have played the Doctor.

    The show was created by Bob Baker, who co-wrote a lot of Pertwee and T.Baker serials of what I’d call the “B” League*. It was for ITV, and another series in their long line of “Our answer to Doctor Who” series. It’s more children targeted and dealt with three kids working through a labyrinth of linked times and spaces to search for a magical macguffin called the Nydas.

    They’re doing it on behalf of the Wizard Rothgo (Moody) and trying to avoid his opponent played by Pamela Salem. Baker managed to get a few Who writers involved including Robert Holmes, John Lucarotti and Anthony Read.

    I’ll post a link to the first 9 minutes of episode 1, which sees the three kids meet Rothgo, who is quite dismissive and short tempered. Over the course of the series though you do see a lot more shades of characteristics that a classically “Doctor”, including a Machiavellian streak.

    I actually think he would have been an interesting choice in front of the camera, but can’t help thinking that he may have been a little like Tom Baker behind it. Apparently even on stage he liked to bamboozle writers and fellow cast by going off-piste into his own stuff. So let’s jump back to the late 70s/early 80s, be chilled by the opening sequence, laugh at the fashions, etc:

    Oh, the girl is played by Lisa Turner who apparently grew up to appear in an ITV show called Bad Girls. I’ve never seen it, so I don’t know if that’s good career progression or bad. The Third series of Into the Labyrinth (which replaces Rothgo, and much that’s notable about the show) also sees the first screen appearance by Gina Bellman.

    * Although Bob Bakers episodes of Doctor Who were a bit middling, he is the same Bob Baker who co-wrote the Wallace and Gromit films with Nick Park and is seen as responsible for some of the memorable pastiches of other genre films. So I think we need the one-off Doctor Lite episode where Peter Capaldi enters an alternative Universe of Nick Park Claymation. Part of The Mind Robber 2, perhaps.

    #40610
    PhaseShift @replies
    Time Lord

    I suppose congratulations are in order to Steven Moffat who has been awarded an OBE in the Queen’s Birthday Honours. RTD won it in recognition of services to Doctor Who Drama in 2008. SM has won it for the same reasons. Brenda, eh? What a fan girl!

    @purofilion

    Yep – straight back for Mr Harness with a double parter. I think Harness wrote a large amount of the last two series of Wallander, but @jimthefish probably knows the show better than I do.

    #40602
    PhaseShift @replies
    Time Lord

    @whisht

    I think you’ve selected one of the greats for Ron, and liked the Ornette Coleman track as well.

    I can imagine you not wanting to delve into Lee’s Metal works as you aren’t a fan of the style.

    Instead, on this Friday night, let’s all select a refreshing beverage to toast all three. Name your poison! (This is the first time I heard Lee sing, and it still makes me smile. Absolutely no metal, guaranteed)

    #40601
    PhaseShift @replies
    Time Lord

    @bluesqueakpip

    I’ve been following the announcements of writers for episodes and based on official BBC statements it looks like the series is a 12 episode run, followed by a break and then Christmas.

    It may be they are making a thing of 12 episodes for Doctor 12, and do what they did last year, with one episode being double length (as Deep Breath was). Pure speculation, but Deep Breath was an event at the start to introduce the new Doctor. If this festival coincides with the end of the twelve week run, could it be an “event” of some other kind, and be extra long?

    The list of writer Directors (No ep titles or anything)

    1&2 Steven Moffat (Dir) Hetty MacDonald
    3&4 Toby Whitehouse (Dir) Daniel O’Hara
    5 Jamie Mathieson & Steven Moffat (Dir) Ed Bazalgette
    6 Catherine Tregenna (Dir) Ed Bazalgette
    7 & 8 Peter Harness (Dir) Daniel Nettheim
    9 Unknown
    10 Sarah Dollard Unknown
    11 Steven Moffat Unknown
    12 Steven Moffat Unknown

    At this stage I’d guess 9 is Mark Gatiss, as he mentioned that he’d written two last year, with “the scary one” being held back until this year.

    Sarah Dollard is a recent announcement, and makes this an interesting lineup if only because there is a real Being Human look to this, with Mathieson and Dollard both scripting for Whitehouse on that show. She’s also worked recently with Whitehouse on The Game.

    Expect to see the usual people who complain about lack of female writers suddenly declare their scripts are rubbish and evidence that they’ve been shoehorned in by Moffat to cover up the fact that he’s a PC Nazi while somehow simultaneously being a woman hater. 😀 As Dollard is an Australian, I think she may have a robust riposte to anyone who tries the kind of shit that was tried on Helen Raynor.

    As outlined by Minchin, the idea of more two partners is unusual in that tone and direction may suddenly shift in different ways, and with different writers. I think that’s why I envy you the writers Q&A – it may reveal more about the philosophy after you’ve seen the bulk of the episodes, so your thoughts on it would be appreciated for those of us who can’t go.

    #40546
    PhaseShift @replies
    Time Lord

    One of the wonderful things about the Universe of Doctor Who is that it comes up with a concept as bonkers as “the moon is an egg”, you get the story, and then it leaves it open for interpretation.

    While some people obviously see this as an unforgivable flaw, I can say that, as a long standing Science Fiction fan and practising scientist (I’ll get there in the end if I keep practising), that the alternative most shows take is just to jab a load of technobabble and handwavium into the script.

    I can come up with my own handwavium technobabble, thank you very much.*

    I can’t remember who it was who suggested that buggering about with dimensions seemed to be a theme of this season (Big, big Dinosaur, little people in a Dalek, 2D creatures becoming 3D, etc) but you can easily treat Kill the Moon like that as well.

    The moon has gained mass, but it’s fluctuating creating gravity pockets. So this could be a transdimensional creature joining our Universe with the focal point of it’s birth being the physical manifestation in the moon. After it hatches it’s visibly much bigger than the moon and conveniently leaves a replacement egg. Which contains another transdimentional creature, containing an egg, with another transdimentional creature containing ….. you get the idea.

    This is at once ludicrous, but mirrors the Doctors TARDIS which is bigger on the inside and contains more mass than is apparent. As the Doctor says in Flatline:

    “If the TARDIS landed on Earth with its true weight it would fracture it”.

    Because of course, the TARDIS is not only very big but contains the mass of a collapsed supernova held in balance between explosion and implosion to form a black hole. As massive things go, pretty big.

    You also have to imagine that creatures like space dragons and star whales must have a means of navigation and control. You obviously have the pressure of the solar wind on leaving the solar system, but generally they must use gravity and therefore have the means to use the universal weakest (but longest reaching) force in some way.

    Again you could call this the kind of bad science that old JNT Script editor Christopher H Bidmead lambasted the show for a while ago. Except that he created the Tractators in the Davison serial Frontios who had the natural power to manipulate gravity. It can’t be bad science if Bidmead thought of it, can it? (That serial also saw an artron energy firing hatstand – the Bidmead is a pot-kettle-black prosecution rests its case). So we could say the birth trauma of developing in this dimension with it’s natural gravity affecting abilities could cause all sorts of odd effects.

    So – fun idea. Missy basically says that Gallifrey is in another dimension, but if he goes to the old coordinates he’ll find it returned. He goes, and its not there.

    Now – as a Master fan I can say the Master never usually directly lies to the Doctor. He thinks the Doctor is a bit of a slughead, wants to show off, and sets him little puzzles. Think of The Five Doctors and “It’s a easy as pie/pi”. So Dimension. Pocket Dimensions. If he goes there he will find it.

    What if Gallifrey is in the TARDIS? A convenient Pocket Dimension that was available thirteen times when they surrounded Gallifrey to rescue it? An unforeseen side effect. The Mass of one single planet compared to the size of its power source? The TARDIS would barely notice she’s put on a little weight. If the Doctor goes to the old coordinates it will be there? Of course it will. He’s taking it. He’s just not looking in the right Dimension. The past of Gallifrey could be accessible (as with Listen) but the future could lie safe inside an old museum piece. Gallifrey communicating through a crack in ToTD? Well the Cracks were centred on the TARDIS and the last time we saw one was in the fabric of the crashed Tardis in Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS.

    I actually really like this thought. When the Doctor says to someone “This is the TARDIS. It’s my home” He could be speaking more truth than he knows.

    * Having said all that, I’d like to assure any passing DW writer that bespoke Handwavium Technobabble to order is available from me at very competitive rates. Contact me via PM.

    #40545
    PhaseShift @replies
    Time Lord

    @ichabod

    As you may guess from my final “is it valid” comments I’m Pro-choice as well. When I considered all the “Pro-life” critiques on the episode during a rewatch I came away with the thought that the writer, Harness, wanted to provoke that reaction because it is an easy trap for us to fall into, I think. We are Pro-Choice, and not Pro-Death. It’s why I think Harness is a good fit for the show. He’s provocative.

    I don’t know if you are familiar with the works of Dennis Potter? A bit of a legendary script/play writer. Named the cancer that killed him “Rupert” in honour of Mr. Murdoch. You’d like his style. He was pretty provocative himself and after his death an award was set up for writers in his honour. Peter Harness won it, and I think I can see why now.

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