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And I wholeheartedly agree with @blenkinsopthebrave and @whisht on the quality of @wolfweed‘s Crazy Captions. (The only reason I don’t comment on them more is that others are so sharp! But I still love them and the comments – all invariably laugh out loud funny)

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@whisht
Great arty post. Love it. I was into surrealists first, cubists came later for me; Braque, I think, was the first one that really hit me, then I discovered a whole new way of looking at the world. I know Dali tends to be dismissed sometimes (partly his own fault!) but I had the privilege of seeing an exhibition of his paintings a few years back and they are very immpressive in real life, even the ones you don’t “see” any more because they are so overused.

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@janetteb
That’s interesting about different viewing practices. LOL at @arbutus‘s “the British way”
@phaseshift – Agree with you on the God Complex as well. It’s interesting there are so many things in this episode that are picked up as echoes so much later. I’m wondering if that’s just a feature of the show in general – can you see the same in other episodes from this time, or is there something about this particular story that resonates…?
Looking forward to episode 4 later tonight

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@toinfinityandbepond @whisht @phaseshift
Thanks for the headsup about Orphan Black (and likewise, I haven’t seen any advance info about it)
I missed the last 3 episodes cos iplayer screwed up; opened it for first time in ages and discovered it’s automatically downloaded all 10 episodes 😀 And some series 6 Dr Who as well.
<Happy happy ScaryB!!>

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@arbutus
That K D video should come with a health warning! (hadn’t heard that version before (tho I’m not sure about the commentator’s comment about it being a “song of peace”!)) Great choice. She brings a whole bittersweetness to it (as opposed to Cohen’s worldweary cynicism (which I also love)).

<goes off to replay and melt into a puddle again>

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Another example of Troughton’s nuanced acting – when the Doctor says “we’re obviously dealing with a fantastic mind” – with a look he suggests that just maybe there’s a bit of knowing flattery going on there, as well as a statement of fact – suggesting he suspects they’re being listened to. Cut to the Master who is obv pleased at his genius being recognised.

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Further thoughts on different viewing experiences – the other thing to remember is that viewing on the small DailyMotion screen is probably closer to how it was intended than viewing HD full screen.

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OK, covers – this singer makes it an artform, often outdoing the originals. Live, she’s unmissable!

Camille’s version of Nick Cave’s Ship Song:

 

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Wow!

This thread’s fairly buzzing! Been a brilliant couple of hours catching up. So wide and varied. Thanks @everyone for populating it with such diversity 🙂

@craig – hard to argue with Stevie Wonder (tho I may, with a bit more time!!). Lovin the Amber Grooves thang as well – best of luck with it.

@faegrl @whisht “there are as many covers of Hallelujah, as there are stars in the cosmos” that may be an understatement!  Hard to beat Cohen’s gruff original tho. There may also be as many possible combinations of the various verses he wrote at different times! My fave was a version by K D Lang on Jools Holland a few years back, but it’s been taken down now 🙁 And Jeff Buckley’s is pretty damn fine!)

And on the subject of unwanted ads – there’s a sneaky little programme called media player (NB – not windows media player) that took me weeks to track down and kill that does a wonderful job of splattering ads and dodgy links over the entire screen). AdBlocker ignores it.

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Come to think of it, last year was just completely BONKERS!!

And a million thanks to everyone on here who helped to make it that way.  And then magnified it.

Loved it, but probably good to calm down a bit.

🙂

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Ooh, there’s been some springcleaning and redecorating going on! Nice.

And I’m glad it’s not just me who was having problems with the blog comments – thought I’d forgotten how to work the forum!! 😳

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Sorry if someone posted this at the beginning of Apr when it was published – but has anyone picked up on this   http://www.kasterborous.com/2014/04/moffat-explains-tardis-dislikes-clara/

We’ve had a fair bit of speculation on this subject, and it looks like it’s not done-with yet. So why does the TARDIS dislike Clara?

Other than that I mostly agree with the above – bit of  UNIT would be nice, but not too much, go the Doctor as rebel/outsider, a return of River Song – she’s probably had loads of adventures with Capaldi already!  Keep Gallifrey in the background with the odd rogue timelord creeping tantalisingly into the story – they were always so much more interesting as individuals than collectively. I suspect the memory loss may be short – just enough that Clara has to explain who he is – for the new Doctor, and the new audience.

Agree with @confusedpolarity that the show shouldn’t get too fanny-wanny, but Ian would be an honourable exception. Wouldn’t object in the slightest to a wee cameo for him. I suspect however that the days of “simpler” story telling are gone for good as far as Doctor Who is concerned, partly for reasons we’ve touched on in the Mind Robber discussions about how TV series were made to be viewed in the 60s – short bursts with a week in between. TV storytelling has undergone a seismic shift since then, and the doors in between are firmly shut – possibly guarded by Weeping Angels 😉

Other than that, I agree with @jimthefish about Moff’s skilful clearing of the decks,  @Arbutus’ seconding of @phaseshift‘s “master”ful description

The Doctor is in the TARDIS. The Dalek Empire is out there, there are worlds to explore – sights to see, wrongs to right and the potential for the Doctor to “go home” is distant on the horizon. It seems right somehow. A new era to start accruing new angst, new end-points and new “might-have-beens”.

 

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@fatmaninabox – Lovin your chicks, man, very fetching!

And useful advice about Twitter (The David Tennant Forum (@DTForum) is a pretty good substitute for DT and seem pretty well informed on many things Who related)

And greetings and welcome to @potatohead and @ianmd

Right, am off to dig into the chocolate bunnies 🙂

Happy Easter everyone

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Just adding to the welcome back and congrats to @FarGrl on finishing the novel.  Will try to have a wee look since you’ve taken the trouble to write it! (I could occasionally get started, but middles and ends were always a problem. And plots!)

@whisht  And welcome back to you too – hope the holidays were fun, and eventful in the right ways.

@blenkinsopthebrave Bless you! Hancock is amazing! However this is the Rose and Crown (motto “We never close”) so I will pass you a bottle of nice red of your choice and say “slainge” my friend!

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One of the scenes which I found really chilling – on first watch, and now – Jamie in the computer control centre (haha, just when you’re thinking the design has really gone under-budget) – picking up the ticker tape and reading what the Doctor and Zoe are doing… right now… (I remember screaming at him to stop reading … oops!).

Shades of Angels take Manhattan?

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OK.

I admit to bingeing!  On the episodes and the comments. Woohoo!! I’ve missed this. Too much RL recently 🙂  And it’s THE MIND ROBBER!! 🙂 🙂 🙂

I agree with @confusedpolarity about the only slight mis-step in showing the minotaur.  But the medusa is great – stone snakes, slowly waking up – what’s not to be scared of! And Troughton is absolutely flying in the role by now. Just great.

Brave directorial decision to film Jamie climbing in a kilt 😈 (not complaining!)

@wolfweed and @Bluesqueakpip- I agree, the medusa reminded me of weeping angels too.  In fact there are a few echoes from this in some of the recent AG stories – The Doctor’s Wife (the TARDIS being breached and the flying console), dream/reality (Amy’s Choice), the Doctor and a character saying the same words at the same time (Midnight).

Love the classic Hammer-style creepy fingernail. And the noise of the soldiers.

<checks nervously behind the sofa>

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@confusedpolarity @phaseshift

It is interesting about different viewing habits, especially when these episodes were designed to be viewed that way. So in some ways, the direction, scripting is slower, but you can afford more time to let the big ideas perculate through (much as with Quatermass, which we were discussing a few weeks ago). You could also be fairly sure in those days, that no-one was going to jump on to prime time news to give away the key plot secrets. So you were free to let it seep in and speculate.

Again, as a child watching Jamie morph into a different actor was really scary! How could he look different, and yet was still the same. How could the Doctor have got his face wrong?! The viewer could see he was doing it wrong.  Love how he keeps avoiding having to answer the direct question of how it happened, usually with that brilliantly sneaky, sideways look.

Again and again with Dr Who, the creative team mange to come up with an imaginative answer to a pragmatic problem. As others commented above – another programme would simply have written him out for an episode, but Who goes an makes it a point that reveals character, changes the story, fires the imagination and ups the scare factor!

@wolfweed

Hang on! The companion has regenerated!!!

Brilliant!

 

 

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Great ending. Love the close up the Doctor at the end – is he still fighting off the mind control, has he been taken over, is he aware at all of what’s happened to the TARDIS and his companions? Is what’s happening to them real or a dream? If it’s a dream can you be hurt in it? ( like Amy’s Choice).  What’s really going on?

 

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Not a lot to add, that hasn’t been brilliantly covered already by all you clever people above 🙂

This was always one of my favourite stories, and completely creeped me out watching in the 60s.  The destruction of the TARDIS was shocking- the safe haven, gone.  She could get moved, kidnapped, hidden, but she was usually impregnable.  I wasn’t aware of any of the production problems, it just struck me as a story that really stretched the imagination. As @Purofilion said, “nothing” is a very scary concept; and the whited-out scenes, and the mist, and sense of space sell it well.  Filmed in b/w, it recalls spooky film noir, classic Hammer horror, yet it’s all just a little off kilter.  Interestingly one of my other favourites which lives on in my memory (when some others are remembered only by the title and a couple of scenes) was the equally low budget Edge of Destruction.

Jamie and Zoe is probably my fav ever companion-team (tho Amy and Rory come close), and although Zoe is still finding her feet, Frazer Hines and PT are completely at ease with their roles by this time. They have a great chemistry.  As @confusedpolarity says, Troughton encapsulates excited kid, authoritative, uncertain in just a phrase or a a look. Loads of little nuances. Including decidedly sneaky looking at times!

And delighted to hear @bluesqueakpip‘s comments, that it still has the power to thrill for someone coming on it fresh.

<sigh> Zoe was probably the companion I most wanted to be (or Jamie!). Sadly I had neither her brains nor her ability to work a glittery lurex catsuit! (Not even close 😥 )

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Just handing in the absence note from my mum!  Sorry not been around much of late, too much RL eating into my Doctor Who time. Hope everyone’s well.

Love the new(?) Troughton home page avatar.

And the Mind Robber is up for the communal viewing

😀 😀 😀

 

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@phaseshift and @bluesqueakpip and all the London and southern based forumers –

Hope you’re all breathing a bit easier now. I remember hearing tell of the pea-soupers London used to get in the 50s – not nice

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@wolfweed

Just gorgeous!

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@Scouttheairedale

So sorry to hear about your brother.  I’m glad you all had some time together in the last few months and it’s good that you and your mum are there for each other.

You are both very much in my thoughts.

Hgs

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@bluesqueakpip @wolfweed

Crazy Captions – great idea  (pretty please Mr Ww!)

@jimthefish @fatmaninabox @blenkinsopthebrave  Pah! Some of us know where our loyalties lie (tho I must admin McGoohan gave my cursor a sharp tug!)

 

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@phaseshift @fatmaninabox @wolfweed @janetteb @blenkinsopthebrave @bluesqueakpip etc

S8 speculation thread gets my vote too

(Hope your inaugural theory is cooking up nicely @blenkinsopthebrave )

 

PS @phaseshift I’ll take your Susan theory and raise you a Rani 😉

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And Happy St Patrick’s Day to you all (this pic courtesy of Katy Manning)

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Greetings from MIA ScaryB!
This made me laugh on Twitter this morning

@DalekThay on Twitter (retweeting a Sue Vertue (Moffat’s wife) tweet):

“The THINGS one DOES for WORK. RT @suevertue: How happy is this man now that my Xmas present has finally arrived?!”

 

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@Purofilion
She was a mighty woman! All the writers in that article were remarkable. Sad to have lost them all in one year.
(And apologies for the overuse of abbreviations – hanging around texting teenagers too much I suspect). RL = Real Life

@Scouttheairedale (did you see my Douglas Adams post on newspage btw?) @fatmaninabox
Ah, ZX Spectrums. You could spend hours waiting for a programme to load, tweeting away to itself… only for it to crash in the last minute! Happy days!

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@phaseshift
And the other 2 compulsory theories whenever a new female character appears – “She’s the Rani” and “She’s Romana”
😉

@fatmaninabox
Great pic of McGann (bet he had a big grin too). That set is indeed a thing of beauty, and 360deg, no 4th wall/ceiling. Must be amazing for the actors.

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@monochromedimension
As the 7th Doctor was the one who changed the TARDIS design for the TVM, it’s very reasonable to expect that the 8th would likely have changed it to something else shortly after the movie 😉 New regeneration, new console room. He might even have taken a fancy to a very retro look – much like the 1st Doctor’s. (There’s a spare TARDIS console room set kicking about after An Adventure in Space and Time!). Or he could flash forward and use Matt’s design… But would that then mean Matt was flashing back when he redecorated…?

Would be lovely to see more McGann adventures, but I’ve no idea how they would fit it into the production schedules. And without impinging on the A series. Will just need to stick to imagining them for now I suspect.

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Apologies if this has been posted before (I do try to keep up!)
2 Days to register for (free) tickets to Join the original radio cast of Douglas Adams’s comic sci-fi creation The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy, as they return to where it all began… BBC Radio 4. (in London, 29 March)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/showsandtours/shows/date/events/cilon_hitchhikers_20140329

Happy (postumous) 62nd birthday to Douglas Adams
And Happy birthdays too to Alex Kingston and John Barrowman (@Wolfweed, I trust you can come up with a suitable gif 😉 )

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Re lengths of tenure – if you look at the number of episodes for each Doctor, you can see Hartnell and Troughton packed a lot more into their 3 years because of 48 wks/yr shooting schedules. And McCoy isn’t that far behind Tennant and Smith.
Hartnell – 134
Troughton – 119
Pertwee – 128
Tom B – 172
Davison – 69
Colin B – 31
McCoy – 42
Eccleston – 13
Tennant – 47
Smith – 44

<passes a box of tissues and a hot toddy to @fatmaninabox >

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I’m with @bluesqueakpip For a show as big as Dr Who’s become, of course you’ll have contingency/alt script/storylines plans. It’d be crazy not to. Never mind the cast not working out, what if one of them becomes incapacitated or some other RL event that means they have to pull out?

@blenkinsopthebrave – You set me off wondering about the Coal Hill School setting. While it’s nice that Ian gets a name check (and a cameo would be the icing on the cake, but he’s not getting any younger), that can’t be the reason for it. I like BSP’s clock reset theory (well reminded)-

the clock’s struck twelve, it’s a new turn of the dial.

Reinforced by a spiral back to a setting that references where it all started. Same place, different time.

Capaldi’s not setting up a new direction – he is the new direction

Exactly. Moffat has spent the last 3+ years setting this up – clearing the decks of old mythologies and the psychological baggage acquired since 2005. The baggage was useful, but it had served its purpose. Capaldi’s Dr now has some smart new luggage. It will be very interesting to see where Moffat wants him to go with it.

FWIW I reckon Capaldi will be very keen to make his mark as the Doctor, certainly for more than 1 series. In RL terms, if he does 3 years, he’ll be 58ish. The Dr could work very well for him as a transition part to get him away from Malcolm Tucker FFS!!

OH, and yes. More diagrams!! Pretty please 😉

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OK
It’s International Women’s Day, so this is for all the international women on this forum, (and all the women-friendly and supportive international men 🙂 ) (And also I’ve just come across it and can’t stop playing it!)
k d lang’s simply stunning version of Joni Mitchell’s Case of You

<oh my, I think I need to lie down and hit repeat. Again!>

PS @Purofilion I only came across John Mayer very recently; really like what I’ve heard so far

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@juniperfish
YAY!! Furry hugs my finny friend 🙂
Capaldi/Master body swap – great idea. Very BG Who too

And sad to see BBC3 going also. Can only hope the money they save actually does go towards creating adventurous new drama, and bringing on new young writers.

@fatmaninabox
😳
You do look rather fetching with that occasional “ping” of light-reflecting glitter in your dark corners tho 😈
<hastily brushes down the sofa… slips in puddle… dang fishes are back!!>
😀

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@blenkinsopthebrave @janetteb @monochromedimension
An Ian cameo would certainly get my vote also.
But I’m also wondering where they’re going with the Coal Hill school refs. Is it a callback to Unearthly Child days? Could we perhaps see a return to adult male and female companions plus a grandchild/grandchild substitute?? And the Doctor’s been back here before in Remembrance of the Daleks (retreiving a long lost artefact)

@phaseshift @jimthefish
That’s interesting re the actors’ contracts for Big Finish. If that’s the case, presumably, when they were being drawn up in the 90s, there was no foreseeable possibility of the BBC bringing the show back as a TV series, so it would make sense to make sure no-one else could use original Doctors for non-BF work.

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@thekrynoidman @faegrl @arbutus
Great posts, thanks.
@fatmaninabox Thank you for Sean Lennon 😀

In further honour of @Purofilion’s parachute jump (am in complete awe btw, well done you), I was going to post this – Freefallin (Tom Petty)

but that led me to an interesting cover of it by John Mayer which then led me to this, which seemed even more relevant 😉 (Gravity)

(It takes its time to build but it’s worth it; great voice, some beautiful loose elec gtr)
(and an interesting DW connection with the account (complete coincidence))

I’d also like to point out a small misconception – it’s not the height or the fall that kill you – it’s that pesky ground at the end!

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Responding to some comments from way back (sorry, my mum’s got my absence note 😉 ) re the Doctor shedding previous relationships when he regenerates –
He doesn’t always; more often than not the companion overlaps regenerations. The Brig lasted thro several, and is still referenced in AG series. But there is the problem of different ageing rates between humans and time lords. Matt has been several hundred years in this body. Even River in the library computer is a long, long time ago by NotD.

But I still don’t see any problem with giving River another Doctor to play with – she’s probably been hanging out with him already 😈 (It would be a younger River than the one who met Ten in the library though, so maybe less knowledgeable). Could be some great dialogue, and would make a great point about outward appearances not mattering a fig in a long term relationship.

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@jimthefish I can’t remember if it was @juniperfish or @bluesqueakpip, but one of them pointed out ages ago that there usually seems to be a plan B for all new Doctors (certainly AG) so that they can be written out at the end of 1 series if it’s not working out (on either side). But the hope is that Capaldi will see it as his dream job and pension plan 😉

@faegrl Don’t be fooled by Troughton’s sweet and buffoonish exterior. He’s still very much the Doctor (in fact his incarnation did almost as much as Hartnell to define the role) and can be as shrewd, cunning and manipulative as any of them (see Tomb of the Cyberman for examples)

@tomsscarf (welcome btw) Being the Doctor is coming close to being a full time commitment these days, with all the promotional activities round the world. And not just the AG Doctors. McCoy, Davison and C Baker seem to be on an almost constant touring circuit. Which seems only fair really. I doubt very much if Capaldi will have any trouble with the technobabble, he’s been fluent since he was a nipper! 🙂

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@blenkinsopthebrave
Hi and commiserations on the foot – you really shouldn’t have been attempting the can-can on ice at your age! (Deny it all you want, we have our spies. And Mrs B has our sympathies – tho she seems to be keeping you up to speed with your meds. (Is “broken foot, well not actually broken” similar to “man flu”??)).

Good point about the ’58 riots, I’d forgotten about that, I was too young for it to impinge on my awareness. And the 50s teddy boys were a long way from the cuddly “Fonzie” image they acquired later.

(Agree with you re the ’81 Triffids (the one with John Duttine?) – maybe we need a separate thread for that!)

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And yes, I hope the Chilcotts managed to avoid the mob – either having an early night with the house blocking out the effects or away with relatives in the country (ta BSP 😉 )

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Ah well yes, not really much to add to the posts above which pretty much say it all (and better than I will)!

Breen has been severely rattled since #3 (I think) when they were trying to drill thro the door – the first time he heard the noise, it got to him (more than the others). He’s been behaving like a man in denial ever since.

Fullalove comes into his own in this and his death is shocking. I wasn’t that impressed to start with, he was a pushy reporter (“I’m not a journalist I’m a reporter” (LOL) ) but like Roney he grew on me, both showing admirable (ironcially “human” ) qualities. That’s an interesting comment that they are deliberately played as outsiders. It’s a powerfully directed scene as Breen and the other 2 suddenly become aware of this “other” in their midst – just by turning their eyes (a well worn trope now, but nicely done).

And agree also that Morrell’s performance is just outstanding, not least when he calls for Roney at the end, and his despair is in the tone of voice, not the volume. And his “not just animals” line is beautifully pitched.

I thought at first the plane flying over London was going to inadvertently broadcast the noise to the USA (live TV waiting to receive a signal) and spread the madness there (shades of Orson Welles’s War of the Worlds?). The plane crash was a lucky escape.

Really gripping series, and interesting to watch it over a number of weeks, which makes more sense of the pacing. Wow! This one was tense. The moment Quatermass drops the man he was carrying, and walks away unaware, is chilling. He’s the hero, the strong mind that isn’t phased by the concept of being descended from Martians – and even he apparently can’t fight this. As @bluesqueakpip pointed out the “not us” are a wide range of people – they could be any persecuted minority who have to keep their true nature hidden from the rest of society.

Memories of WWII – of the blitz and of actual fighting would still be fresh in viewers’ minds, also the Nazi concentration camps, the pogroms, the McCarthy trials in US. Not to mention the escalating arms race and the cold war. (Not that Quatermass’s final speech seems any less relevant in 2014).

Final thought for now – I’m really glad editors/directors found more visual ways to do the “Previously on…” recaps! 😉

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@rob
Welcome back from the mud. Sounds like you and @phaseshift have been doing sterling soggy work the last few weeks

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@bluesqueakpip

And by golly, did it work. When @scaryb and I went round the 50th Celebration, one of the very noticeable things was that the fandom was now equally split between men and women. It was no longer 90% male.

It was indeed noticeable. Suddenly it’s just about OK to “come out” as a female Who enthusiast. The young uns don’t know they’re born! 😉 Of course that also explains the grumpiness of some ARSE fanboys who no longer have their fav prog to themselves.

Was it @phaseshift who made the comment a while back that Eleven’s geekiness is the great thing about him in terms of being a role model for boys? You know he is going to say/do something that is completely socially inept (many teens’ worst fears) – eg omitting to project clothing to the visual cortexes of Clara’s family in ToTD – and yet he still ends up being the hero.

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@bluesqueakpip @Purofilion @missshannonkent @faegrl

Interesting discussions, some of which have been touched on before.

re actors “owning” the character – much like the story told at any given time is the story the writer wants to tell (and has no duty to uphold any notions of continuity unless they want to) – each actor needs to “own” the character in order to really deliver a performance that convinces.  As has been said, each incarnation of the Doctor is different, yet the same; maybe as we are to our own younger and older selves. (And we don’t know enough of Eccleston’s experience of it to be able to comment)

Moffat is on record as saying that he has to sit on his own inner fanboy to deliver stories that he thinks will have a wider appeal. http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2013/nov/18/steven-moffat-doctor-who-interview    But he is still adept at leaving  open ends for endless speculation (25,000 posts on this forum alone) yet still dropping in refs to BG Who to keep the fanboys and girls happy. Venusian Aikido – bring it on!!

Personally I think the relationship between various Doctors and companions are generally ambiguous enough to allow for shipping* or platonic according to taste.

 

*thanks to @juniperfish for extending my vocabulary

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@arbutus Agree with you re Lau – great stuff

@wolfweed Play your own theremin here

http://femurdesign.com/theremin/

 

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@whisht

Belated happy birthday. @craig beat me to my first choice, but this has a sort of travel related theme as well, so seemed appropriate too – happy trails 😀

And keeping on a Simpsons theme (this is very short, audio only) –

 

 

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@arbutus

the Eight Doctor knew Puccini– does that count?

Definitely

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Hi @devilishrobby

For more discussion on the sixth, see The Faces of the Doctor thread, from the end of page 4.  (You’re right he had the odds stacked against him, but his portrayal didn’t do the character any favours. IMHO 😉 )

Can I respectfully (grovellingly even!) request that all future discussions about no 6 stay over there please.

re who’s appeared in Who as more than one character, have a look at @wolfweed‘s impressively researched recent Spatial Genetic Multiplicity blog – I believe the list is definitive… unless anyone knows better of course 🙂 (re Doctors, I think you’re right with only CP and CB)

 

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@Scouttheairedale

Oh, you are definitely a cutie! But we want your mum back as well, LOL. (Sorry didn’t see her – I fell off the front of the sofa)

Haha, pantos – I forgot one of the great tests of how good it is, especially how scary it is, is how many seats you have to mop up after!!

(oh yes you do!)

Enjoy the last couple of shows

[Author]

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