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22 February 2014 at 17:49 #25663
Being half Scottish (Dad from Edinburgh)
I think that’s a bit harsh; we’ll allow you to be full Scottish even if your Dad’s from the ‘burgh
😉
@craig @jimthefish Completely with you on Scottish sporting (and other) “prowess” – we are experts at snatching defeat from the jaws of victory (to coin a cliche). I was at Hamden for the Scottish team sendoff to Argentina in 78. (Now I know this is the music thread, but I’m sure you’ll all forgive me if I DON’T post We’re on the march with Ally’s Army 😈
Argh, I’ve just scared myself, need to coorie up in the nice dark space behind the sofa <shudders>
22 February 2014 at 17:28 #25659Right that’s the welcome done – you’ve work to do. Get over to the Quatermass thread,. Epi 5 today*. It’s been brilliant so far)
😉
PS @Everyone – if we MUST do 6th revisit ( 😉 ) – please please please VENGEANCE ON VAROS. Slithery evil Sil is one of the best villains ever. And it’s only 2 episodes, 45 mins each (could be interesting to look at the pacing etc compared to AG Who)
For AG WWM I’m happy to go with what the majority want but agree with @fatmaninabox‘s suggestion that maybe splitting RTD viewing scheds over different sessions is probably a good idea. (Didn’t quite get the scheduling tho – did you mean starting later?)
And YES vote from me re concurrent viewing of BG and AG episodes
*Craig – thanks for posting
<dammit, fell off the sofa again 😳 >
22 February 2014 at 17:15 #25657@phaseshift!!!!!
you’re back! 😀
<jumps and down and falls off the sofa in still a slightly cosmic-sparkly (thanks @juniperfish) ball of overexcited matted fur>
Also happy that the Scottish climate round my way could best be described as “mild” (not normal, but I’ll take it). Sympathies for those up to their necks in mud, shivering or overheating (@Purofilion – glad you’re feeling a bit better)
22 February 2014 at 17:11 #25654Greetings to everyone on the sofa – my, it’s busy
🙂
Lovin the talk of the Hairdryer of Rassilon – will that go with the Curling (Tongs) of Capaldi?!
<ducks>
@faegrl You mentioned waaay upstream) about various Doctors having different musical talents. Does Eleven in Asylum not claim to be on the Carmen recording? (@Bluesqueakpip?) In fact there were a few musical refs in the first part of series 7, I think (need to go back to the old theories pile… or has it been swept out? (no doubt with a curling broom)
@monochromedimension as @whisht says, the thought of the 6th brings many of us who saw it the first time (or opted to miss it!) the first time round, out in uncontrollable shuddering! But you won’t be flamed in here for liking him! There was an appeal on the Faces of the Doctor thread for someone to make a case for the defence, so feel free.
I suspect his rehabilitation (or at least forgiveness) might be more likely with the passing years and the increasing total no of Doctors. i still think he’d have made a great Master.
@Scouttheairedale I really think you should rescue your mum from the back the sofa, multidimensional extension of the TARDIS tho it might be! (Hmmm, re your sports choices… men in singlets, shorts, beating the cr*p out of each other – I may be sensing a pattern here 🙂 )
And yes congrats to the UK curling team – not a game you can watch casually, it’s as psychologically as complicated as chess sometimes.
16 February 2014 at 14:23 #25356Anyone else following the progress of the Minister of Chance btw?
It’s an interesting concept of film-making in that it’s independent and crowd-funded, but it’s being done by professionals. And an amazing cast, inc Sylvester McCoy and Paul McGann, who both seem to be promoting it as well as being in it (which is what drew me to it in the first place).
They’ve just launched the prologue (not perfect, but v good) and a series of audios. The audios are free to listen to, seeing the prologue (approx 7 mins) costs £8 for a “cinema ticket” (ie password) or you can donate various other amounts for various benefits, but the cash goes straight to the next stages of production.
Short trailer here –
16 February 2014 at 13:34 #25355Absolute belter – even viewing it from a 21st century perspective where the ideas of sentient/organic spacecraft and human genetic manipulation by aliens are well established.
Thanks @bluesqueakpip for the technical background. It’s interesting that the current DW team say they also prefer to use real-time effects to CGI whenever possible.
The direction and lighting are great, with imaginative use of angles. But it’s the acting (and the script) that really sells it. Breen has been rattled since last week, since the noise when they first tried drilling. The changing power balance between him and Quatermass is subtle and interesting. And I really like Roney now. He and Quatermass recognise a mutual shared excitement about the potential of the discovery. They’re not afraid of a brave new universe where humans are not the only lifeforms.
I really like the scene with the minister – the way the establishment latches on to the possibility of a Nazi hoax, because the alternative is too challenging to their world-view even to contemplate, is very convincing. (The equivalent of sticking fingers in their ears and shouting “lalala”). It would be all too easy to “sell” that to the press and the wider public, especially without the benefit of mobile phones and internet blogs.
btw would be interested to know if @jimthefish has changed his opinion re the depiction of the “menials” as this has developed. Personally I think eg the squaddies are interesting and fairly rounded for supporting characters
16 February 2014 at 13:09 #25353Really enjoying your chat about early Doctors, it’s great to know that the early stories still appeal to people. I’m not big on the reconstructions, though I fully appreciate the talent and effort that goes into them. But I have the benefit of having seen them first time around. No-one back then expected TV to last, and film was expensive and difficult to store, so it made re-using seem a sensible financial option at the time. OTOH it means that the likes of Philip Morris can now make a lucrative living from tracking down and restoring old 60s TV classics.
MD – re the Web Planet – Glad you enjoyed it – had me behind the sofa when I watched it. People laugh at the effects now but on a lo-res TV back in the 60s it was gripping and a good attempt at creating a really alien planet with connected eco and bio-systems.
14 February 2014 at 10:13 #25289Yikes! Apologies for double post – no idea how that happened. I trust a mod can sort that out please (and then delete this one too) –
@fatmaninabox @craig @jimthefish @phaseshift (where the devil are you? Hope you’ve not succumbed to the lergy that was going about post-Xmas; the Quatermas thread in particular is in full flow, and needs you!)
14 February 2014 at 10:09 #25287And Scottish rain songs #3
Eurythmics – Here Comes the Rain Again
Enjoy. And thanks to @purofilion @fatmaninabox @faegrl @janetteb for earlier contributions (great choices) and setting me off o n a soggy road 😉
14 February 2014 at 10:06 #25286Scottish rain song #2
Jesus and Mary Chain – 9 million Rainy Days
14 February 2014 at 10:03 #25285Ah, if you’re going to do rain songs, you have to go Scottish!
Garbage – with the wonderful Shirley Manson – Only Happy When it Rains
13 February 2014 at 16:41 #25276Oh don’t start me on DIY disasters – indoor fountains a speciality!
😳
(I blame the furry claws!)
@fatmaninabox – hope you stay dry, @janetteb – sympathies on the heat – makes me almost appreciate the grey slush outside (too far south for decent snow).
@juniperfish and other friends on the south coast – hope you’re not getting your fins too wet
@arbutus – you’re right – Cheers all! (well we are in the pub) <clink>
13 February 2014 at 16:36 #2527511 February 2014 at 12:45 #25206haha @bluesqueakpip, you pipped me to the post
10 February 2014 at 11:52 #25168Sad news with the death of director Christopher Barry. Started with The Dead Planet (the very first appearance of the Daleks, 1963) and continued through 4 Doctors to the Baker’s Creature from the Pit in 79. And lots of other notable nonWho stuff as well. A master of the dramatic direction of a sink plunger! In lesser hands Dr who could have turned out very differently. (A good innings at 88 tho)
http://www.denofgeek.com/tv/doctor-who/29231/in-memoriam-director-christopher-barry
10 February 2014 at 00:59 #25162I agree – strangest looking pentacle I’ve ever seen! Would never pass muster in a Denis Wheatley book/film 😉
And yes, you’re right, it does look more Gallifreyan than anything. With that, and the dual timestream hint of the Hobs v Hobbs Lane, I think you could be on to something!
@thujone Welcome. I agree with you re Andre Morell – it’s not a showy characterisation, but it’s quietly quirky. Quite third Doctorish in some ways. Miss Judd reminds me quite a lot of Susan at times.
his duff mind-reading equipment
That seems such a random invention, I’m guessing it will have some significance later!
9 February 2014 at 19:53 #25148mentioning missing serials just makes me annoyed they’re still missing… I want more 60s Doctor Who to be found! lol
Ah, be patient little one, and one day they will come back, yes, one day… hmm! No-one expected 2 complete Troughton stories to resurface, after all (and they did a great job on the restoration). But there’s no point stressing about it.
9 February 2014 at 19:02 #25146I’m a bit of a shy girl, but once the topic of Doctor Who starts, you can’t shut me up! ;^_^
Sounds like you’ve found the right forum
🙂
(Nice posts; agree – sometimes you have to recognise that a relationship belongs to your previous regeneration and you can’t go back there (crossing of own timestream paradoxes n all that). And you won’t meet Clara if you’re being all solitary at the top of a snowbound spiral staircase 😉 )
9 February 2014 at 18:54 #25145@monochromedimension (nice new avatar btw)
I agree with @whisht @fatmaninabox – given what you’ve said about liking the early Dr Who stories, you should give Quatermass a shot. There have been lots of different versions, most them fairly average as I remember. But this is the series that earned it its formidable reputation. Andre Morrell who plays Quatermass in …& the Pit is generally acknowledged to really nail the character, although he was the third actor to play it.
There are lots of parallels with, and foreshadowings of Dr Who, and I believe various early DW writers acknowledged a debt of inspiration to Quatermass. Its viewing figs at the time were up to 11m/episode which is massive considering the no of TV sets at the time. The production values are good for its time, but crucially, like Dr Who 5 years later, it was pushing the boundaries of what could be achieved with the resources they had.
And you get a blink twice and you’ll miss him sighting of Mark Eden (as a reporter) in #1 (who later starred as Marco Polo in the 64 Hartnell adventure)
9 February 2014 at 18:42 #25144Thanks as ever for the background info. Not a lot to add but it’s nipping along nicely.
That journalist isn’t half persistent! Love how he basically just walks into high security area and then doesn’t leave. You can see why he’s the hot-shot newshound! Also liked the pre-google research, with the seriously creepy and creaky librarian.
But I agree, some lovely direction and dialogue; and the models at the end are pretty good, especially since they would be designed for lo res TV sets. One thing I didn’t get was the hole in the door – was that a perception filter sort of thing that they didn’t realise initially that the drilling had been effective?
And next week’s is creepier you say? <brrr
>8 February 2014 at 18:34 #25106Your comments about the DVD quality reminded me that even watching the youTube version on computer screen is seeing it at a higher resolution than it would have been intended for when filming (405 line, b/w).
Given that a lot of the BBC’s experience in drama up till that point would have come from radio, and as you say TV was seen as being for “kitchen sink” drama, I agree it looks pretty adventurous at times. (And thanks so much again for your background info about the technicalities). It would certainly have had that impact for a contemporary viewer.
8 February 2014 at 18:24 #25105Social commentary aspects – I’m not really picking up @jimthefish‘s “condescension” towards the working class characters. The Chilcots are portrayed as quite rounded, and contrasted nicely with the closed minds of the military brass typified by Breen. I liked Mrs C’s lines about “Got my picture in all the papers – but they didn’t believe us, not really, made us look silly”. Most of the “official” characters don’t take the Chilcots seriously, but the script and the production does.
Lots of neat touches in the script in terms of sketching in cultural background – Mrs C’s refs to having lived through 2 world wars, the general strike of 1927, which is used to coathanger the last period of spooky activity in the area – which coincided with localised excavating for a new tube station.
There’s also some nice lighting and camera angles, especially in the haunted house and the capsule.
Really like the acting and I’m definitely warming up to Roney.
@whisht It’s definitely pointing us towards a spooky solution, devilish even. And yet, and yet – when did the devil start going around in a “capsule”? And if the thing is 5m years old, why are there still “effects”.
Really looking forward to #3 🙂
(I thought I’d seen this version, but I don’t think I have. Thanks a mill to whoever came up with it for our communal viewing 🙂 )
8 February 2014 at 15:45 #25098And a Dr Who ref – Mark Eden who plays “second journalist” (04:43 approx) would star as Marco Polo 5 years later 🙂
8 February 2014 at 15:34 #25095Thanks everyone for all the background info – fascinating, especially @bluesqueakpip‘s post on how they actually filmed. Must have made use of background music tricky, as it would presumably have to be sound-balanced live. It’s also worth remembering that TV back then was still a very new medium. Much of the time they must have been experimenting with how best to use it. Exciting stuff.
There’s also a sense that the audience would be new to the medium also. While modern (post music video and advert) TV viewers have learned how to take in a million clues a minute, a 50s audience was still learning what to look out for – hence the very late reveal of the significance of the “bomb” being underneath the fossils.
@whisht “hob” – good spot, I think
I guess what this illustrates is just how valuable TV drama is as a social document — even the things that wouldn’t at the time be considered to be so, like spooky supernatural thrillers and SF shows. They’re great time capsules for the social mores and cultural structures of their times.
The best SF/fantasy always does reflect back on the society that produces it. I agree with you that the way they treat the “pleb” characters is a bit on the patronising side (and yes, esp the youngsters in the queue), but I suspect that was in keeping with the times. But it hardly lets the authority figures off easily. The characters who are clearly the hero figures are the ones who are prepared to speak out, the mavericks/oddballs, a feature that would come to represent the 60s. There is some attempt at diversity eg token black actor, token woman as assistant, range of “colourful” working class Londoners! (Although I find the old biddy with her disabled hubby quite moving – maybe he’s got dementia, post war shock, who knows, but she’s having to cope with it on her own, as many people did).
A lot of the themes were prominent at the time, WWII was still very fresh in people’s minds, a cautious optimism (in UK) about rebuilding and a better future mixed with concern about out of control scientists/military eg nuclear weapons, the MAD policy, the space race. (eg CP Snow’s The New Men (publ 1954).
I found it gripping, much more so than other later, pacier, bigger budgeted versions, which is probably a lot to do with Andre Morell’s central performance. Not quite feeling it for Roney yet, but I’m warming to him. Although for a paleontolgist (apart from missing the big clue about location) he’s remarkably careless about trampling over the search site. And why are they spraying water over the “bomb”? Surely they’d be better carefully digging it out – which would be easier with dry soil than mud!
8 February 2014 at 14:32 #25094I actually love the multiverse theory, it’s just that my brain has problems conceptualising it for more than 5 seconds without exploding! I can just about keep hold of the idea that we (the viewers) follow the Doctor’s trail as he jumps timestreams/miniverses, so we may be aware of occasional anomalies but there is a consistency in that we follow the Doctor. (is that right??!) (Thanks @bluesqueakpip, @arbutus, @barnable for patient explanations)
The Hanging Gale was a great series, well worth checking out/revisiting.
@craig Albert Finney and the McGanns (amazing amount of talent in 1 family) – glad to hear they were nice people (and not jealous at all!!)
6 February 2014 at 13:13 #25057Could River Song have had a few off screen adventures with Tennant’s Doctor(s) or do you think they were planned but Tennant left before the episodes could have been made?
My personal theory is that River has had offscreen adventures with all the Doctors from Tennant onwards – well maybe not Ten, or Eleven would remember – but definitely postEleven, including all the ones we haven’t met yet 😉
My brain is boggled at your erudite musings on multiple timelines, rewritten universes, temporal paradoxes etc. I do go more for the time is overwritten theory myself. Like when you write something in pencil, rub it out, over-write… but there’s sometimes still a faint trace of the original left. As timetravellers the Dr and companions are more aware of those faint traces, especially when they apply to their personal timelines.
The Dr’s “timestream” as it is seen in all its sparkly glory in NotD, is described as “scar tissue” – time travel damages the universe, even if it’s in ways that the rest of us don’t notice
5 February 2014 at 07:13 #25028Guardian article on the Series 8 reviews. So they do 😀
Interestingly the G article commenting on reviews for a yet to be filmed series, has a link to 22 comments of its own – which would appear to be invisible!
(mainly lurking etc, me too; glad you enjoyed hols)
4 February 2014 at 18:18 #25008Ah, now I see your problem.
Eleven remembers everything, but only once he’s experienced the events in DotD. He doesn’t remember as 9, 10 and 11 – up till it happens in 11’s timeline – because it doesn’t happen till then! Before that it’s the old Timelords crossing their own futures/pasts don’t remember get-out clause. Although Eleven has a “moment” when the whirly portal appears, and the fez. Which does beg the question of whether he could have remembered it before it happened (to Eleven), if he’d been given the right psychiatric help at a young age!
4 February 2014 at 17:26 #25005Re reconciling timestreams – Amy asks the Doctor explicitly at one point why she can remember 2 versions of events and the Dr explains it’s because she’s a timetraveller now, and lives partly outside time. So while the timestreams themselves will realign, it’s more than likely that the Doctor, as both a timetraveller and a TimeLord, will remember various different versions. Maybe the aborted ones are fainter or something. I presume the doctor’s view of all of time and space is somewhere between human linearity and TARDIS/Moment simultaneous bonkersness.
Re why the War Doctor doesn’t remember The Moment/Rose (before she/it creates the portal) – maybe because things get timey wimey as soon as the Moment is activated, not just from when the future Doctors get brought in. But I also like the idea that he doesn’t necessarily see her as “Rose”.
Hehheheh… I love this! We get to come up with these terribly serious theories AND revel in the sheer nuttiness of them
haha – that’s what it’s about 🙂
4 February 2014 at 17:14 #250044 February 2014 at 07:26 #24983Much bonkersness all over the place!
😀
re Rassilon – my fav theory is that could have been the “alternative plan” that the High Council were cooking up while the rest of Gallifrey was out fighting Daleks in the streets. Defrost the nearest, most powerful megalomaniac and set him to work. The MTL (and 1 other?) covered their faces because they were ashamed of having been part of the plan, but realised there was nothing they could do to stop Rassilon. At least not without most likely sacrificing themselves, and, unlike the Doctor, they are not prepared to go that far. They will still take their chances on some degree of self preservation with Rassilon.
but once they are realigned, the doctor will forget what happened when they were out of sync.
That’s possible, but I think it’s also likely that the Doctor will still remember both/all versions. Even Amy, as a non Time Lord time traveller remembered conflicting versions of events (having/not having parents)
@bluesqueakpip ( nice alternating timeline sort of a new avatar btw 😉 )
So it would have been a terribly unexciting interaction (well, apart from Gallifrey blowing up, billions dying, bits of Daleks all over the place, that sort of stuff).
OTOH it would have made a certain faction of fandom deliriously happy!
3 February 2014 at 10:15 #249683 February 2014 at 10:04 #249663 February 2014 at 09:55 #24964Just adding my agreement to what’s been said before about Buffy. I found it halfway through Season 2, then did a catch up of Season 1 before 3 started. Seeing where it came from, how the characters (and the story) evolved, definitely added to the enjoyment (tho I’d agree with @bluesqueakpip that S1 has its “wobbles” – but also some great bits). Once More with Feeling for example, while it’s a great stand alone, benefits from the added nuances of knowing the characters and context.
3 February 2014 at 09:44 #24963<waves @janetteb>
Good to see you back. Hope you had a great holiday, and RL’s going well – but not TOO distracting from these boards, haha. (Amazon reviews are hysterical, some of them v clever).
3 February 2014 at 09:40 #24962Lots to catch up on. As @arbutus said –
One lifetime is just not long enough to listen to all the music out there, I think I need to learn how to regenerate!
Or at least learn how to exist in several timestreams simultaneously!
Off to check out @fatmaninabox‘s Northern Soul clips (ta for posting)
Not sure if this comes under NS genre (I’m sure someone can put me right on that 😉 ), but it’s my fave Dobie Grey track.. and a nice gentle way to start the week.
Happy Monday… uh oh, that’s a different thread of thought altogether, for another time 😉
2 February 2014 at 23:02 #24957Re Amazon reviews – that’s brilliant. Actually it’s a remarkably positive review rate for Dr Who fans. Where have all the snarky Graun readers gone?? 😉 (They couldn’t be making these up could they..?!)
29 January 2014 at 00:17 #24843And agree with comments above re the new outfit.
Especially –
I still think it makes the Capaldi Doctor look like he’s going to be a ‘kick a Cyberman in the nuts’ sort of Doctor.
😀
Let’s face it – anything with a red lining is cool!
And the boots will be fine once they’ve been worn in a bit 😉
29 January 2014 at 00:14 #24842Re Mr Potatohead –
they should have added accessories so you could “regenerate” him from one to the other
Just brilliant! 😉
29 January 2014 at 00:09 #24841It’s taken me 2 days to recover from the Peters and Lee exposure!! (but I thanks you all the same 😉 ) (And you come back with El Condor Pasa – beloved of Peruvian street buskers everywhere!) But I looooove you for the Muppets (doo doooby doo doo. De dodoo)
@whisht some great posts as usual (and from @Purofilion and @arbutus and @serahni)
And indeed – the passing today of a legend. RIP Pete Seeger. I love this video – can’t think of a better way for him to get his own back at the people who banned him from the airways in the 50s – nearly 90, at Obama’s inauguration concert on the steps of the Lincoln memorial. Singing Woody Guthrie (who apparently taught him to busk and jump freight trains), with his grandson and young(ish!) pretender Bruce.
29 January 2014 at 00:00 #24839@scouttheairedale
Hugs to all 3 of you.
Thinking about you
xx
27 January 2014 at 10:23 #2474827 January 2014 at 08:36 #24743Any (minted!) Sherlock fans could be interested in bidding for Benedict’s hat on ebay (posted by director Colm McCarthy (Sign of Three and Bells of St J) , so it’s genuine, and for a charity he’s connected with). As he so charmingly puts it: “there may be actual fibres of Cumberbatch – Benedict residue”
You’ve got 6 days to save up!! If the bidding’s too hot, maybe share on twitter or facebook or whatever?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/281249900734
27 January 2014 at 08:27 #24742A flyby visit to drop in a note from me mam confirming I’ve been busy busy and sorry for not being about much. Lurking a bit but no time to post.
Hope everyone’s well, lots of new posters and chat, great stuff 😀
27 January 2014 at 08:22 #24741Now this is bonkers, but pretty fine as well, just cos he pushes it to the limit. Holds up pretty well, but can you imagine the effect of seeing this on TOTP in 1968??? (We were used to Pan’s People!) He used to use real fire on his head. The one and only Arthur Brown – Fire
27 January 2014 at 08:18 #24740Great posts @whisht @arbutus @fatmaninabox (love the Bonzos – have posted a few upstream), @Purofilion (glad to hear you’ve recovered – much sympathy for your experience last week; glad you managed to keep your dignity more or less intact)
Bonkers?
You want bonkers?
How about Zappa protege Wild Man Fischer? (From around the time they were knocking about with Beefheart’s band (TMR era). And Ry Cooder as well I believe)
(This is one of the more accessible ones!)
18 January 2014 at 16:39 #24382The words “puerile”, “Marvin Gaye” and “Let’s Get it on” should never be seen in the same sentence! Any excuse to post a link to Marvin is always welcome 😉
Think I need a lie down after that.
Melted
<whew! fans face>
18 January 2014 at 16:22 #24380Good to see you too (and thanks for liking my long-winded post). Am afraid my attendance record on here recently has been abysmal. And I second your warm welcome back to bonkerising. (It was you who proposed the verb to bonker if I remember right!)
I’ll raise a glass of sauvignon to your mulled wine
<clink>
Cheers
Stay warm
18 January 2014 at 16:18 #24379@phaseshift @fatmaninabox @jimthefish @craig
Can one of you please (pretty pretty please!) edit my post #24376?
The 4th para (1st big one) end of line 1 – fabric of face (and time) should be fabric of space
Much appreciated 😀
Doh! <facepalm> etc etc
18 January 2014 at 16:14 #24377I think the seal is the Doctor’s evidence. He uses it out of sight of anyone. Tasha Lem and co only know that he’s succeeded in decoding (because it’s now broadcasting loud and clear), not how he did it.
That the seal breaks the code also clearly suggests to me that it is Time Lords behind the crack rather than the Moment, tho I suppose you could argue that the Moment could have set it up so that the seal (which she would know to be in the doctor’s possession) was the thing to break the signal.
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