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@winston absolutely, laughter, music, the best medicine. And Who is so comforting and comfortable a lot of the time. As recent reviewers stated, it would be rubbish if the Doctor couldn’t reverse the evil he met. But I know what you mean… “how did he hang the laundry that way?”🤨

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@miapatrick I think you won @mudlark some cash… “Mrs Flood chameleon arced til Christmas.”

Niiice.

I really, really would’ve liked the carol to have been used a little more. But overall, I can see why RTD has gone down this particular path. We’ve had reality bombs, the most important woman in the universe, the end of the world. And the death of the end…. So the death of death makes sense…..

and I enjoyed the use of 73 Yards.

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The Doctor says, though, @blenkinsopthebrave that “we invest things with significance.”

you did good work @craig 🙏

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@bunface yes indeed you did!!

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@magdiragdag welcome to the forum!

wow, the time is incorrect on Mrs Flood’s clock? Well spotted! I wondered too -why is the clock used? Is it JUST to show the storm (because we already see the storm) or is it something else entirely? I like it! People have suggested she’s chameleon arched.

Puro

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@bunface “the triad programme may be an evil entity…” ooh, I like it, I like it…” !!

A bit like the end of Nine’s run? 🤩

@miapatrick “Mrs flood is Susan who has been chameleon arced” I ageee with @mudlark for  this is super bonkerising…

And @mudlark 3+ hours is insanely good in your garden. And I agree, you don’t need it to be too shaggy -just a bit, shaggy….

@ps1l0v3y0u yes, we still don’t know why REG is in Rogue’s Gallery??? Im still wondering to what extent all these episodes really happened.

And, shepherd tones on I am The Walrus …. But only as in all Shepard tones…. being an example of something else….

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@bunface ever notice ears ringing? As you listen to streams or cars passing  -you might have access to a keyboard, guitar, tuning fork -or heck, whistle over a bottle, & you can match the ear ringing to “A” 440 hz. Fun trick. ‘Course, like a lot of tricks, it doesn’t always work 😬

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@mudlark wow! You got both 😳-please, please don’t read them both. 🤓 You’ll run out of time! -I said a lot. I’m so glad you’ve  regenerated a new knee. Back braces can be cumbersome &  bruising… & I know how important the garden is to you.

@bunface believe me, I have one eye open when I read about a title- all  the better to go “La La La” I can’t see you; can’t buy you (sing song voice). 😄
The music in Who shreds me. Watching the last of Amy Pond with SmithDoc & her motif combined with the Doctor’s, caused watery  “moosh” face & tear floods.

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@bunface -aw, shucks, thank you – back with my own username. classic radio is fantastic. How you interpret & why it makes sense to you is in keeping with Kramer’s The Hum of the World.
I liked nine too -the Moffat ep where he beamed? “everybody lives”  & you’re right he said “fantastic.”  He was swaggery doctor. Gatwa has that.

Edit: I was going to say that you do know music theory if unconsciously-that swelling, sonorous loudness at the end of Dot & Bubble filled with many instruments peeling shame…

Puro

 

 

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Yes, I said this. Had a massive post and it’s ….gone. Never mind!

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That was also for @whohar who commented on Jemma Redgrave & physics & maths. Also @blenkinsopthebrave  who inspired many thoughts on the importance of the Carol of the Bells & The Devil’s Chord.

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@whohar Spearhead from Space? Does this mean Ruby’s an auton? With musical powers?

A good auton who doesn’t know she’s one? Like the flesh in Matt smith’s Doctor???

I do notice Ruby almost never gets mad. She’s always relatively ….calm  when facing hissing goblins, snot monsters and Alien Bird monsters. 😳😳

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@cathannabel Wasn’t Stranger Things wonderful? The sheer power of music in the most recent season to transform & invigorate characters and to create a channel to more effectively beat the Big Bad was impressive, demonstrating how music is natural: endowed with a necessity and power to act as transformative, cosmically, across culture and  time, interestingly.

In ancient China and India, scales and units of measurements were viewed as part of an overarching principle of cosmic music similar to Plato’s Occidental theory where the relations between musical intervals, the characters and sound of particular scales, of numbers, influenced nature and society but also individuals right down to ‘singing tones’ believed to exist within the walls of flesh of the tiniest animals and within the building blocks of humans.

And in Japan and early China, a belief existed that social phenomena and elements of the calendar were related in the most complex of ways and were overlaid with significance when connected with the stars. I think this is happening here, with Ruby and the music “deep in her soul.”

As if special powers or supernatural forces are connected to the music which is acting as ‘memory bait’ and vibrating, using specific intervals only Ruby may sense or feel across her body or superstructure, as was believed by Plato and Pythagoras.

Earlier I suggested that the old Ukrainian hymn might be a beacon for Ruby to locate her self – should she find herself either fighting Set or be lost, in a similar way, perhaps among dimensions, as has happened to Rogue.

As you say, not long to wait!

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@scaryb you mentioned “psychic manifestation”…. & I think you’re onto something there… I was remembering how Ruby’s playing the keys; a goblin causes feedback (nice pun RTD) & S Triad yells out “oi” & asks for Gaudete. Mmm. She’s 2 people in 2023/4.

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Whoa, everybody has written awesome posts!

@miapatrick @juniperfish et. al. If the Tardis was infected when the Doctor saved baby Ruby from the goblin dinner then do we account for his tears, at other times, because part of him, perhaps due to his connection with the Tardis, is aware that something is deeply wrong?

In rewatching the beginning of The Church on Ruby Road, before the Doctor is mad-dancing in kilt, he’s watching Ruby at the keyboard, but he’s wearing a hat & it appears the right side of his face has tears.

However, production/rehearsal/filming scenes out of order could lead to ….Gatwa glowing. 🥵So I could be completely wrong.

@scaryb great post too & yes, Tennant absolutely could’ve filmed a secret cheeky scene. I believe it was @bunface who discussed the importance of absorbing the 14th, stylistically & ideologically.

I recall how the Giggle, in speaking of The One Who Waits, referred to his machinations as a “different game.”

The song implanted deep in Ruby’s soul could still be a beacon, if indeed her name is one….

 

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@craig it’s fantastic that you help -not just for a day a year (nothing wrong with that) but twice a week. That’s a tremendous commitment. I was reading about food insecurity in the UK, via the Food Foundation Tracker where 15% of UK households experienced real difficulty putting together any kind of meals at the beginning of this year. Australia has similar figures dependent on location, primarily. It’s good to bring this to our attention.

Craig, you and your people do a good thing. Thank you. 🙏

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@ps1l0v3y0u

crikey and hells bells of St John you never said dome-shaped heads of ….anyone. (though perhaps in another timestream).

As you were.

And yes (edit) RTD likes massive buildups, flying things with pointy sharp bits, listing baddies, and computer or TV screens which judder about but slowly show important or final name of ….. Big Bad

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@blenkinsopthebrave of course, Molsdorf is her new nickname now.  😊

the theory of @juniperfish that Ruby is Horus deposited by Isis… is a very good one (apologies if Son & I mixed up our gods!) & those who paused on Ruby’s mum’s chin to be certain enough she’s human or human -looking, helps too. Admittedly, when I originally saw the first episode, perhaps because I’d just finished watching Whittaker’s run, the woman’s shoes, socks, & general shape, reminded me of WhitDoc… I couldn’t get that out of my head!

Or as others have suggested  – @ps1l0v3y0u  -is the hood hiding a dome shaped head as per POM?

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@ps1l0v3y0u

you mentioned the Vlinx….? Interesting. Yes, you’re right it looks a little …Osirian!

 

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@markkelly welcome to the forum! This is a fun, engaging place.

I absolutely had to rewatch Deep Blue Y & yep, you’re right, the Tardis groaned there. I also like the idea of more than one Tardis as there’s evidence of more timelines (ie 73 Yards) or the multiverse theme.

@ps1l0v3y0u I don’t know abt Mrs Flood either: I thought, as did a good, pedantic friend, that she is both Susan, and is Ruby’s birth mum and that R herself could be the eye of Horus? …..🤯

@vickymallard I was completely stumped on this villain too but if you head to the Activity thread you’ll see @craig has put a link to Pyramids of Mars with Tom Baker -it’s my first time watching this & it’s terrific. Naturally it’s a bit clunky & the relationship between the Doctor & SJ is a little different, but it’s properly suspenseful & Baker’s wonderful.

@mudlark apologies about the confusion re the jackal, the puppy & the fact the astronaut was equine (we really should’ve known this: gazing, or properly glaring at Son…)

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“So Set was killed by Horus, god of light…”

“The world is facing the greatest peril in its history. The forces being summoned into corporeal existence are more powerful and more dangerous than anything even I have encountered.”

We never saw PoM, so this is fun homework (is there any other kind?)

thanks Craig! -PuroandSon

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@mudlark very interesting.  🧐 All I could recognise was a ….fez.

Thane again….

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@winston it’s great to hear from you! Yes, we’re doing fine.

Sounds like your leg is very painful. At least you could watch some old Who, though: much of that beyond Tom Baker and some Peetwee I don’t remember but our boy watched all of the very first series & loved it. It’s very dark indeed.

Of the Specials I agree with @dentarthurdent that Wild Blue Yonder’s the best and eminently rewatchable. I think you’ll love it.

🥰 Puro.

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Yes, the cloaked figure may well be Old Ruby in a timey whimey way @scaryb !

interesting that in Rogue, Ruby was very nearly trapped & I wonder if this is signalling at least one possible future out of all the time streams or multiverses. Is time collapsing in certain timestreams? Are tiny decisions, the ones we regularly make every day, leading to an overt, disproportionate or changing structure of time as suggested by the loss of the Doctor in 73 Yards.

@blenkinsopthebrave @bunface @whohar

As for  Ruby’s carol, deep in her soul, perhaps it acts as a beacon to ensure she returns to this specific moment in time. The audience or director can focus on one of the two time signatures – compound duple (6/8) or simple triple (3/4) as Mr B has explained, or they can switch between the two.

This is significant as it is similar to how the Doctor remembers two different events or has 2 different memories of Ruby Road. If Ruby fights Sutehk she may have an implanted memory of this Christmas carol in order to locate those she loves in this timestream.

To amp up the beacon, the carol has a simple ostinato or repeating pattern in pitch and rhythm so that a repetition is like a code or signal continually ringing out, and cast across time like the ripples made from Maestro’s tuning fork.

The carol in compound duple is also interesting as the two Tardis’ compound the effects of Sutehk & his minions, acting as contagion across all time and space. Is this what happened to Finetime & the home planet where the creatures were set to destroy every living thing..

Witnessing the Doctor’s anger at himself for the loss of Chidozie is very revealing too, and I can’t imagine how he will struggle should wrath & destruction enter earth’s every corner. How alone he will feel.

Apologies for rambling -this got away from me! 🙏😀

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@mudlark @blenkinsopthebrave

Yes, it looks like the figure in the cloak is the same woman.

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@mudlark @pufferfish @whohar @bunface and calling those with knowledge of Horus … People have suggested Ruby is part of an altered reality. Has she been placed in different time streams by the Doctor to fight Sutehk?

And, as others noted, when Kate articulates her chrysalis theory, Ruby arrives at UNIT with her VHS. S Triad is the vessel for evil, 👿 but one can speculate Ruby’s a vessel for good:

If Ruby’s placed in various time streams, there’s strong symbolism of Ruby as peacemaker & healer across the sky. Horus is seen as restorative, both helper & healer (apologies if ALL of this has been said before!), significantly a helper to the god, Ra -hence Sun–day??

When Ra appeared at dawn he took the form of a falcon known thereafter as Horus of the Horizon. In losing his eye in battle it was magically restored. 😳

Beyond the theme of magic, though, to what extent has Egyptian mythology been drawn upon this season? Seemingly the dead astronaut in Wild Blue Yonder came from a civilisation with heads shaped like falcons. The No-Things as shapeshifters live through  replication & imitation -much like the Chuldur who are bird-like.

I wonder, then, how many humans can Sutehk …penetrate or replicate? And if there are 2 Tardis’ there’s a potential for unlimited Tardis’  summoned into being, accidentally or deliberately by memories & timestreams….

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Sutehk’s doghead brings us back to the Beatles singing “My dog he’s alive he’s not dead” in Devil’s chord.

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@pufferfish @juniperfish and Roam is from the B52s album Cosmic Thing… (also containing the brilliant Love Shack).

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It’s interesting re-reading comments on 73 yards — @wolvesarerunning “everyone who meets Spooky Ruby manifests that original loss” is most interesting considering the recent episode.

@juniperfish also “when the Doctor has to restore the timeline …Ruby will have to vanish like the changeling she is- back into faerieland.”

Now, considering the theory there might be 2 Tardis’ and possibly 2 Doctors -one who is imprisoned by Sutehk or says “yes” & the other moving thru time to restore “normality,” it’s possible Ruby will vanish temporarily but somehow the Doctor ensures her survival/arrival at the correct time.

If the Doctor’s memory is changing regarding the Church on Ruby Road, & IF we assume he will need to protect & restore Ruby at a future point, is the person who deposits baby Ruby somebody other than her mother? Is it a Time Lord from a different time line…(perhaps no paradox in this instance? 1. Or will he brave the paradox?)

In 73 Yards the Doctor vanished. Did he do so because of the broken circle, significant because of what 14 said at the end of the universe, effectively ending his own time line when circle-stepping  OR is he disappearing to fix the mess created by Sutehk?

1. Given how RTD respects a paradox I don’t think the Doctor reappears on Ruby Road… But I do wonder WHO deposits baby Ruby. Why is she/he cloaked? Unless hiding is paramount (it’s not 1978/67 but 2004).

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@bunface I think RTD may have suggested that 14’s run has effectively ended -as Tom’s Doctor is a curator, so David’s Doctor is pottering in Donna’s garden…However like Moffat and the Doctor, I’m sure RTD fibs too. He could indeed return but it would be well hidden from audiences until a proper reveal.

Now, did Gatwa’s Doctor ask Rose “how is your UNCLE!?” Is he Uncle/Doctor or was there a different gent in the house? Or did I miss something ? Perhaps @mudlark or @blenkinsopthebrave would know, too….

However @bunface I get what you’re saying:

“real love means absorbing and  acknowledging our history.”

Although the concept “woke” always worries me…

@ps1l0v3y0u thank you for the info about all the other Doctors -I know so little before The Gap though as a child Pertwee was my Doctor. The arch, aristocratic & at times cynical Doctor was what I expected from Who aged 6-10. 🤔😀

Puro

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@dr-pepper-bean

I don’t think the Dr needs to be punished. Since 2005 the Dr has carried a burden associated with this work, with his name. We know he’s saved countless billions.

I’ve noticed we’ve moved away from the Dr being the sole saviour, particularly since the Moffat era & into Chibnall’s, the ‘companions’ have had to solve their planet’s problems -whether on the moon, or where Rory was the boy who waited; where Clara survives in between her penultimate & final heartbeats… & where Yaz walked earth alone for decades, over a century ago.

I think it’s time that the Doctor isn’t our only saviour anymore.

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@juniperfish I like it! “ That in an alternative universe the Doctor said yes.”

ooh, yes, I think you’re onto something here. The TARDIS groaning & the fact we have STRIAD/Sutehk appearing everywhere (& in places we haven’t specifically seen) Ruby & Doctor travelled in the universe.

That we have 2 TARDIS perhaps one is an Alt reality where the Doctor feels he must say “yes” the result of which are the odd tales; the similar stories where Ruby is shown a burning planet from a spaceship calling her mother just like Rose did in her second episode in 2005 etc etc.

The second Tardis (hence what you said about the groans, @juniperfish ) may be used to fling Sutehk into a time wilderness via another Time Window with Mrs Flood’s help? Who could be Susan?  @unitpicker

So Ruby (Horus) is the daughter of ….a certain wolf ….? I like how Ruby & Rose are similar….

That Susan’s name is quite ancient, meaning Lily of the Valley…. (THAT valley). A place not far from a river which floods….

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@scaryb @juniperfish @mudlark et. al.

Yes, this is juicy! ScaryB, yes, something is very odd about Ruby -Maestro says “she has music hidden in her soul…. This creature is VERY wrong. And HE can’t have been there that night!”
@unitpicker “she could of course be the real Susan.” Oh yes! That’s most intriguing.

Juniper -yes, me too. How can the fixed point suddenly change ? Perhaps this particular baddie can alter … a point so it’s not…. fixed…..?

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@bunface “not as a costume” -in other words, originally playing at dressing up, to a point… Now, the Doctor is more fully immersed in this culture -he wears what he wants, as he wants which is precisely what we humans do. He is thus more natural, fully at ease in himself…. Or is he? 😉 As you intimated, too.

A VERY good point bunface….

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@miapatrick. Yes indeed, perhaps pressed for time though, he said “a different face, same person” but Matt’s Doctor phoned Clara to “help” this new Doctor because he would need her… and as he was so very different to the previous incarnation….  Absolutely. A friend like Mel must tell us truth – you’re amazing but get up! To have a  friend one trusts is gold.

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@bunface –very interesting yes…learned human social graces (?), which, to others like Kate, may seem odd or different for the same reason characters in the Doctor’s previous iterations (2006-2016) found his occasional coldness, his “jibber-jabber” timey whimey quite jarring. It is the centuries -long question, as you say, thoughts, or deeds-  as expressed by John Donne, for example.

Puro . Til tomorrow!

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@miapatrick I should clarify that I don’t mean to describe the Doctor as vain but rather they had a smell of vanity, occasionally -in the way it might be perceived by earthlings…In Gridlock the Doctor admits “I lied and I liked it. This way I could pretend. That they were still alive [context is everything!].”

Puro.

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@miapatrick yes! I recall Tennant & Capaldi mentioning their vanity: the conversation with Martha in Gridlock fraught with loss & memories of “the mighty citadel under twin suns with fields of deep red grass, capped with snow.” And he didn’t want to share this, as to make it concrete was to no longer contain despair…

and yes: blind or vain, but as you say, “when someone’s trying to blind him.” 

 

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@bunface Yes I see what you mean.

And the Capaldi iteration had a carer: “Clara cares so I don’t have to” so possibly there’s a more relaxed Doctor wearing heart on sleeve; carefully introducing characters to Gallifrey; to Susan; & ruminating on potential children…

Perhaps in keeping with his new personality: confident in himself; putting others first: to ease them in; to say: “show me the lovin’” so is it hysteria, or courtesy?

This might be a gentle response to those banging on about “ooh woke, ooh politically correct” when really it’s about how recipients feel; about civility & kindness when in our current climate the latter is oftentimes dismissed & interactions harsh or insensitive.

Puro.

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@winston ??? Halloooo!

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@miapatrick yes, you’re right, she did say it was the beast. It was interesting when the Doctor demands Ruby go into the Time Window (what a terrific idea!) & she asks “why?” that Kate says “go, don’t question!!!” -a little harsh considering the issue with Harbinger…. AND the latter did say, before the reveal, “this is what I’m made for (presuming the tech & analysis angle which means something else now…)” so for me, there was a lot of “mind blown” as I know little before The Gap.

as for Ruby? Golly, I’m lost! She seems SO empathic, kind & generous to the extent that she wants to speak to her mum not for herself but to reassure her. She mentioned several times how alone mum must’ve felt. But the whole created-reality theory is getting away from me – at least.

I think it was the Doctor’s anger at losing the soldier which surprised me -he didn’t know him, & it felt as if it was all about the Doctor for a second hence the “stop grizzling” by Mel.

lol -Kate check out together staff better. @miapatrick -oh boy, do I agree & she did explain that a lot of their problems were supernatural in 73 Yards. I’m also a bit stunned -what did Ruby say to everyone incl Kate which caused them to run? And NEVER come back -even to the pub, well after Ruby left? I don’t have the imagination to work it out. Other than Mad Jack …

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@blenkinsopthebrave to those who said it’s not sutekh…. Take a bow! And @ps1l0v3y0u and all those others who followed early Who and remember those very early episodes.

24 hours ago, and not having seen him before, or the years in which he travelled: “the mother and father and other of them all” all I could offer was The Beast because RTD LOVES a beast, devil or tormenter and yes he most definitely enjoys going OTT @mudlark so we’ll have to wait for part 2.

It was odd to see the Doctor slamming the wall? There’s something very human about this Doctor. Even facing the devil trapped in the dark of the Satan Pit or facing  Akhaten with Clara, he often behaved in a way that you’d least expect? I thought of the Family of Blood and the quiet “rage of a time lord” as he placed Mother in every mirror and Father in chains forged from the heart of a dark star: “He never raised his voice….”

Ncuti can do quiet, though and beautifully. And Millie Gibson is fantastic. And barely 19. 😳

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@mudlark you created a MAP?

wow!

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this ain’t my idea: on other places I’ve read ideas about S TRIAD creating a business with a Tardis and maybe it unleashes … hell? But in my opinion, what makes THAT idea sensible is Mrs Flood’s “never seen a Tardis before?” AND  that RTD has presaged this specifically with both a  biregeneration  and two tardis’ ….

also the  2 tardis timestream in Twice Upon Time led to havoc and snow falling…

 

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et. al…… I suddenly remembered the destroyer or the beast which is a supernatural being (RTD’s time with Satan/ ghosts etc) and Kate saying UNIT’S time was focussing more than ever before on the supernatural … in 73 Yards.

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Have people seen the preview (from 15 hours ago) on YouTube which has the Doctor asking who “the blonde woman is?” 2 mins long.

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@whohar well if it’s the 3rd Doctor -then it’ll be something else entirely. I didn’t see your post -apologies.

It seemed to cross over with my response to Mr Blenks.

Either way our wait will not be long…. 🧐

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@blenkinsopthebrave As you mentioned Sutekh I did some reading, having not recalled ANY of those adventures & boy did Sutekh get around! So that’s a great spot @blenkinsopthebrave et. al.

There was mention of a King Nocturne, though,  which is interesting -considering Maestro’s involvement. Certainly Sutekh fits as the One Who Waits & those here who know a lot about old Who have spotted similarities across the decades. Apparently this “destroyer”  known also as Satan (see The Satan Pit) was imprisoned in The Void -and we know RTD’s partial to a void ship…

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@blenkinsopthebrave looking at the description … the “Doctor’s ageless foe” has to be someone he’s encountered before… could it be Master territory? Could Mrs Flood be involved in this or be part of Division…? 🤔

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@janetteb the Alt doctor is a great idea. Also @miapatrick the fact the Doctor isn’t the sole -saviour now. It’s interesting in story and to look over all the Doctor’s seasons and how it was “doctor save us/will save us” to the Doctor expecting US to save ourselves: see Capaldi’s moon episode with Hermoine Norris to CC’s idea of the companions wandering the world alone for decades working to solve an alien problem prior to @ps1l0v3y0u Flux episodes (because I know you liked them so much… 🙂  )

but also the beginning of companions becoming best friends which is what I like about this & the previous incarnation of the Doctors.

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