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@scaryb demonstrates her aggressive reporting skills to @craig

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@craig

I second @juniperfish and @scaryb wholeheartedly. Crikey, in a perfect world, they should be inviting you to the screening.

Of course, we are a polite forum, that believes in tolerance, diversity, civility and protection against spoilers, but, well, if they do not respond, then, in the words of Arnold Rimmer:

Call it extreme if you like, but I propose we hit it hard and hit it fast with a major – and I mean major – leaflet campaign, and while it’s reeling from that we’d follow up with a whist drive, a car boot sale, some street theatre and possibly even some benefit concerts.

<Thinks to self: “Could there be drawbacks to being a polite forum?”>

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This story is strangely unnerving for Doctor Who. It has a definite Sapphire and Steel air about it. And with Tegan dressed up at the end, perhaps a bit of The Wicker Man as well. What is particularly interesting is the way it presents the past as malevolent.

But, dear me, does Tegan have to be quite so whiny? All the time?

But I will leave it to @phaseshift to do his erudite and comprehensive assessment, as he does with all these retrospectives.

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@phaseshift

OK, I am going to do my best to convince everyone that we really should watch “The Mark of the Rani” for the 6th.

Why?

1. It is an historical (I love historicals). But more importantly, it is not just the only historical that Colin Baker did, it was also filmed on location at the Ironbridge Gorge Museum (the story is about the Industrial Revolution).

2. It has not simply one Time Lord, it has 3 Time Lords!

3. It has a brilliant new Tardis (the Tardia of the Rani).

4. It has the Rani, or more to the point, it has Kate O’Mara, being deliciously evil. Hmm…evil?…or…just deliciously amoral? Let’s just settle on…delicious.

5. It has marks of death on its victims which are, let’s face it, big love bites (watch it and you will see what I mean).

6. It has, actually, a really good performance by Colin Baker, who manages to overcome his costume and give the Doctor real gravitas and sympathy.

7. It has, just like the best historicals of the Verity Lambert years, great reflections on the history of the industrial revolution, the consumption of lamb chops, and the the life of trees (can’t really explain the last two because of spoilers, but take my word).

8. It is (unlike Vengengence on Varos) unique and original. We have been to Vengence on Varos before, actually quite recently with RTD and evil game shows. But this is sort of special when we come to Colin Baker’s tenure.

9. If is only 2 (45 minute) episodes, which helps a lot in terms of timing before August.

Did I mention Kate O’Mara?

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@wolfweed, @phaseshift

Out of the Unknown. At last! This was one of the best, certainly one of the most thoughtful, and challenging, anthology science fiction shows ever put on TV. And in October the remaining episodes released! And cleaned and spruced up! Wow.

Out of the Unknown (like Who) suffered terribly from the policy of wiping tapes during those years, and so much of it was lost. Perhaps the story that affected me the most when I first saw it (probably in 1970 on Australian TV) was from series 3, and titled “Target Generation”. The experience of watching that (I was in my final year of high school, and participating in anti-Vietnam War demonstrations) was profound and has never left me. The story of a repressive future society where books were banned and religious dogma was used to repress the population, made a huge impact on me. Unfortunately, it was one of the tapes that was wiped. But here is a synopsis of that lost episode:

http://www.625.org.uk/ootu/bbcents/bbces311.htm

The ending (where the protagonist/rebel quite literally walks into the beam of glowing light and an uncertain future) is something I have always carried with me.  I would rank it as one of the most moving and inspiring TV experiences of my life.

It is fabulous that the remaining episodes are being finally released with a proper restoration job done on them.

 

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@craig.

I just watched Kermode’s review of Sex and the City 2 on your recommendation…This man is now officially my hero!!

For the whole 10 minutes of his rant (that was not a rant) you wanted to roar in agreement, but you knew you couldn’t utter a sound because he was talking so fast that you might miss another brilliant comment.

Wonderful. I am now on a quest to read and hear the collected wisdom of Kermode (Mark, not Frank, that is).

Which is not to put down Frank Kermode, but, let’s face it, there are not as many laugh-out-loud bits in The Genesis of Secrecy and the Interpretation of Narrative.

 

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@scaryb

Long may we continue to be perverse!

I couldn’t agree more.

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Oh dear, this may be the collapse of civilisation as we know it:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/video/video-in-australia-the-end-of-shiraz-as-we-know-it/article1958371

There is only one answer. To drink it while it is still available, and accordingly, I am about to go down to the Blenkinsop cellar.

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@craig

Ah, yes indeed, life is full of ironies! I am certainly no Luddite, but there is a whole generation that has grown up knowing only a world that allows them to say whatever they like while hiding behind a wall of electronic anonymity. Nowdays, they (and not only that generation, of course) never have to be confronted by the expression of pain on the face of the person they have insulted. I am not sure that civility, wimsey, word-play, are really organic to the Internet. It is no surprise that so many people who are attracted to this site tell us that this site is very rare in its commitment to civility and good-natured humor.

But even as I type these words, I suspect that there are many of my fellow Enthusiasts who will disagree with my assessment, so perhaps I better stop before I talk myself into a hole!

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@phaseshift

Thanks for the warning. I reaffirm the comments I made a couple of hours ago at #29003 in the On The Sofa thread.

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@wafflebro

Greetings from Canada. Well, the world tour misses Canada entirely. As for the first episode of Series 8, in my town the only option is an expensive cable subscription to be able to watch it on one of the cable channels. It sounds like neither of our countries are doing their best by Doctor Who.

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@wolfweed

Loved that 1986 video. Especially the comment from one of the fans about what
attracts the American fans: “It’s good versus evil without getting terribly violent, like it is over here.” Exactly. And something AG Who is sometimes in danger of forgetting.

Also loved the final comment by the guy in charge of the roadshow about the fans: “They are probably the most gentle souls I have ever met in any work I’ve done in my life.” Of course, that was in the days before the Internet, which allows the less gentle souls who frequent Guardian talk-backs to spoil the experience (in every sense of the word “spoil”).

Yep, as far as I am concerned, the jury is still out on whether the Internet has improved our quality of life.

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@wolfweed

What?! An entire episode? (even if it is a rough-cut episode)

This is why you should never sub-contract.

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@phaseshift

Actually, that list of American actors was quite inspired!

But…imagine it being written by American writers and produced by American TV. It doesn’t bear thinking about!

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Well, I really enjoyed that. In a way, of course, the cast were right. It wasn’t the type of sci-fi show they had signed up for. But the idea of taking the Doctor out of his comfort zone (if all of space and time can be described as a comfort zone) and placed in a very different genre-based setting was an intriguing one. And it really was well executed. If it wasn’t for the revelation of the inside of the Tardis at the end, it could stand it’s own against many TV adaptations of Sherlock Holmes, or a dozen other period murder mysteries. (For example, if anyone has ever seen a 1939 British murder mystery film, “The Case of the Frightened Lady” with Marius Goring, you will know what I mean.)

And I agree with @phaseshift that modern Who could (on occasion) take the Doctor out of his comfort zone of aliens and (to be honest) too many explosions, and put him in a very different setting, and, if done right, not only would it not harm the brand, but it might enhance and deepen the show. I think “Black Orchid” demonstrated that.

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@miapatrick

A Distinction AND a well-dressed boyfriend. Fabulous…and impressive!

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@scaryb

Damn!

Here is a site that still seems to have it.

http://www.darkhorizons.com/news/32887/votd-japanese-style-doctor-who-parody

It really is quite entertaining (if you can see it, that is!)

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Doctor Who meets Japanese tokusatsu

Weird and wonderful!

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@TheCrackIntheWall

I just realised that @midnyt already answered your question. Sorry, @midnyt, I missed you reply as well!

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@TheCrackInTheWall

Actually, I don’t think the Doctor defeats the Vashta Nerada, as such, but rather he buys some time so he can release the trapped people. How does he buy the time? He tells the Vashta Nerada to read about him in the books in the Library, and presumably they are impressed enough to give him the time. But once the trapped people are released, the Vashta Nerada continue to roam the Library.

This is my memory of the episode, so someone please correct me if I am wrong.

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@craig, @jimthefish

Actually, I thought the outfit of the tall Australian with the scarf had a sort of “Tegan flight attendent” air to it.

Actually, is there a bit of Jamie in the Scottish outfits? After all, his time with the second Doctor was in black and white. Who knows what it may have been in colour?

One wonders if we could match a companion to each team. Of course, that might mean that one country has sent their atheletes as Adric. Or Leela?

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@craig

You are a wise and benevolent Emperor.

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@craig

Yes, I think you are right. The nuclear option is a bit drastic. I think that, personally, I am becoming more spoiler-averse than I thought I was. I shall more vigilant.

At the risk of sounding like some nostalgic ancient thing, there was something really great back in the pre-internet days of BG Who, when you turned on the TV to watch the show each week and every episode was a complete surprise.

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@craig, @phaseshift, @fatmaninabox, @jimthefish

Regarding the leaked scripts for series 8, I have already seen far too much spoiler-laden detail on the web than I wanted to see (and I wasn’t looking for it).

While every regular here is responsible, we are not immune to malicious posts. Besides increased vigilance, is there any other option?

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@thekrynoidman

Yes, I got adverts every 5 minutes as well. This was the first time with these videos. Very strange (and slightly annoying).

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Ripping!

Like all BG Who, it really needs to be appreciated in context. And the (television) context were shows like Lord Peter Wimsey with Ian Carmichael and Upstairs, Downstairs with David Langton that just preceded this, Agatha Christie’s Partners in Crime with Francesca Annis that was contemporaneous with this, and Miss Marple with Joan Hickson and Sherlock Holmes with Jeremy Brett, that just followed this by a year or two. It was just at the time that British culture (and British television culture) started to embrace “heritage”.

And it is a totally enjoyable example of all of those shows. And it has such wonderful character actors, including the gorgeous Barbara Murray (Lady Cranleigh) who was in The Power Game (what a brilliant show–and portrait of Harold Wilson’s Britain–that was) and the ever-excellent Moray Watson from Rumpole of the Bailey.

Loved the Doctor trying to explain to Lyssa and Adric what steam trains are–and his comment: “As a boy, I always wanted to drive one”. So, there were steam trains on Gallifrey!

And did anyone notice that during the fancy dress ball there was someone wearing a costume that looked exactly like Michael Gough in The Celestial Toymaker. Wonderful stuff. Cannot wait until next week.

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@bluesqueakpip, @wolfweed

Davros? Or…to me it sounded more like the Dalek in the jar in the parliament of the Daleks in “Asylum of the Daleks”. In other words, the David Cameron of the Daleks.

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@scaryb

I decided to post the “news” about Moffat’s intentions after series 8 on the Spoiler page on the principle that one should always ere on the side of caution.

Indeed, even the Spoiler page is getting a bit too spoiler-ish, and should be approached with caution (or not at all!)

But back to Speculation/Wishlist, I think I want to see Ian Chesterton/William Russell one last time so much that I will be really pissed off if he does not appear!

Then again, I really wanted Canton to make a return appearance, and look what happened to that!

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@bluesqueakpip

Re: series 9, I thought Moffat confirmed he was back next year:

http://www.digitalspy.ca/british-tv/s7/doctor-who/news/a580738/steven-moffat-to-remain-doctor-who-showrunner-for-series-9.html#~oJ3tnkEfSnDWMY

Of course, nothing’s certain until it is on the BBC site.

 

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@bluesqueakpip

The Christmas special is certainly a possibility. Re: series 9…well, perhaps I will post that on the Spoilers page.

 

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@wolfweed

And directed by Sheree Folkson. Well, that puts to bed the rumour about Peter Jackson.

Perhaps series 9.

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@fatmaninabox

Regarding CB stories, I haven’t seen any

To be innocent of Colin Baker’s Who…wow, I envy you.

 

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@phaseshift, @bluesqueakpip, @jimthefish

A rootin, tootin, shootin pairing of #1 and #11 sounds too good to resist. But I would keep it Who-centric, as there is just too much non-Who sci-fi western-themed shows to choose from (Star Trek old and new, etc).

As for the poor, unloved Colin, why not a fond farewell to Kate O’Mara with Mark of the Rani?

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@scaryb

I agree with you re Patrick Stewart. A brilliant actor, and you make a good point about the different personalities of the Master. When I think of Patrick Stewart as the Master, I tend to think of a suave but steely Master; in other words a version of Roger Delgado.

But when you think of just how radically left-field Moffat was in writing Moriarty for Sherlock, it becomes highly unlikely that he will go down the Roger Delgado route.

So, if there is a Master, I think we should expect the unexpected.

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@wolfweed

Hmm, normally I enjoy spoilers, but I am not sure I really needed that one.

A large part of the impact of “Asylum of the Daleks” was the revelation that Oswin was a Dalek. It was a genuine shock to everyone.

Now, part of my brain will be thinking about that spoiler all the way through series 8.

Sometimes, there is too much of a good thing.

 

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Even more Moffat and Gatiss:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/latestnews/2014/sherlock-miss-me

Excellent!

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@fosterferris I have to confess that I agree with you as well. (But like @thekrynoidman, only in certain respects…actually the same respects). I think you are absolutely correct about the fact that there was only a problem when you combined Tennant with RTD. All the Tennant episodes I responded to were by other writers. And while I love RTD for his ability to bring back Who, I am not sure there were many RTD stories that I really liked.

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@brewski

Patrick Stewart as the Master…I am sure it won’t happen, but there is something strangely appealing about that idea…

Think about it. He would be an amazing opponent to Peter Capaldi.

But it won’t happen.

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@scaryb

Yes, Ray Harryhausen. So many of the magical bits of my childhood are due to him.

And if there was ever proof that old-fashioned stop motion could be more scary than modern CGI, this has to be it:

 

 

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@bluesqueakpip

Like the bonkers theory!

I cannot believe the ring has no importance, and your bonkers theory makes a lot of sense. Which is not to say, however, that there is not room for another bonkers theory. <Hmm…starts thinking…>

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@phaseshift

Thanks for posting that interview with Verity Lambert and RTD. I had not seen it before. I think she was spot on in her assessments of Eccleston and Tennant (as she was in other interviews on the BG post-Hartnell Doctors).

Fascinating idea about Peter Cook. I assume she was thinking of his ability to be simultaneously funny and frightening; which sounds a bit like Peter Capaldi, actually…

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@wolfweed

There is the first Doctor’s signet ring, of course, but the second ring…?

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@wolfweed

I am still intrigued by the wedding ring. I wonder if anything (or nothing) will be made of it.

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@arbutus, @whisht

 

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@craig. Hurrah! The winner of “nothing at all”. Seems quite appropriate, really.

(after a little clue…)

Well, it was quite a big clue, actually. Not too many brain cells were needed for that one. Which is just as well, as I fear that there aren’t all that many left in the Blenkinsop noggin these days.

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@scaryb

Thanks for that clip of the end of Dark Star. What a brilliant film.

And, of course, the inspired idea for a blog on the 10 best moments in each Doctor wasn’t my idea, it was @phaseshift‘s. As are most of the inspired ideas.

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@scaryb

2-bottle-inspired idea

Dear me, it was only a 2-glass inspired idea. I don’t want to give the wrong impression about dinner at the pub with Mrs Blenkinsop. We walked home upright and sober!

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related to one of our current topics

OK, @craig, I’ll have a go. I don’t suppose #11 is the answer to life the universe and everything in Hitchhiker’s? (If it is from Hitchhiker’s I would really like it to be the dish of the day, if only for Peter Davison, but that may be asking too much.)

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@craig

Jason and the Argonauts at #98!! What?!

#98??!! I am even more outraged!

And Gort at #92. Oh dear. A collective memory of the last 5 minutes.

I can see that the only way for me to calm down is to watch the trailer for Jason again:

And made in 1963, the same year as Doctor Who. What a year!

But thanks, @craig, for going through the list. And, as you say, at least Who was represented.

 

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Just back from the pub with Mrs Blenkinsop, and since I felt my favourite moments (above) were a bit Hartnell-oriented, we thought about what would be (besides @jimthefish‘s “fish fingers and custard” moment) the most memorable 11th Doctor moment. And we both agreed on the point when the Doctor tells Vincent that he (Vincent) has seen so much more that he (the Doctor) has, and the stars above swirl in a Van Gogh kind of way. So we wander home to tell this, and…@PhaseShift has already been there (probably somewhere between the chips and the second glass of wine).

So, @phaseshift, it may be the second glass of wine talking, but perhaps I would like to offer some comments on the greatest Hartnell moments. Then again, we will see what I think in the cold light of dawn. (And it will take a couple of days to collect my thoughts, so no problem if anyone else wants to jump in first.)

 

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