Forum Replies Created
-
AuthorPosts
-
29 November 2015 at 15:34 #48209
@mudlark- trust an archaeologist! (my mother is an archaeologist, and you never want to get her on the subject of bones…
A lot of people in t’other place claim an inconsistency that he took the long way and then confessed. I think in fact that is very doctor- assuming what he said when he got out of the dial was the truth- stubborn and bloody minded and only ever so slightly showing off. He didn’t confess in the end, he made his way there and told them something.
28 November 2015 at 23:33 #48100@JimTheFish- I tried and failed to get into his ‘m’ books till he died. Then I binge-read them all, and I think he could have been a Douglas Adams to modern Who. I really liked ‘Player of Games’, I’m a major fan of ‘The glass bead game’, that is probably my favourite sci-fi, and I love the way the reader is expected to fill in the gaps.
Nifti- I love it.
28 November 2015 at 23:06 #48096@Jimthefish- which is why I said Ian Banks rather than Ian M Banks- but his sci fi in those two is my favourite Banks writing, over the real world in those books, and the sci-fi in his other series- though he never wrote a book I didn’t like, except maybe, confusingly, ‘a song of stone’
28 November 2015 at 22:35 #48084@Delta- why over complicate things by assuming that the doctor is wrong/is lying?
28 November 2015 at 22:27 #48081@Delta- then the doctor is manufactured during the first teleportation he ever underwent, and his first into the confession dial, and every one after that.
28 November 2015 at 22:10 #48071@delta can you give me an example of a none-biological clone?
28 November 2015 at 21:43 #48056@delta: how was the planet of the timelords existing billions whats of the what now?
28 November 2015 at 21:42 #48054@Delta- but the day of the doctor was broadcast years after the re-boot. Up until that point, he believed he had done it. Had clara not been there, he might have done it. Not just the war doctor, but ten and eleven as well.
28 November 2015 at 21:17 #48044@KingBoru- though the fact that he left because he was scared touches on what he was saying in- was in the drums of war- about looking into the thingy (its not an episode I chose to rewatch) and running. The master looked into it and went mad.
28 November 2015 at 21:14 #48043@delta- that the doctor was willing to commit genocide- that was the premise right at the beginning of the reboot.
28 November 2015 at 21:11 #48042OK, so, before it starts:
Me: ‘Apparently there’s some weird continuity thing with his trousers’. (I couldn’t really explain that to the family, and it didn’t come up in this episode anyway.)
During:
He’s in the confession dial! He’s in the confession dial!’ (Family didn’t remember what the confession dial was, but took my word for it.’
Writing in the grave ‘I’m in 12.’ Me: HE’s 12. Which stands. She’s in his head.
Given that it was a substance harder than diamonds could he not have been whacking it with the spade? The eternity sequence was beautiful.
And the whole thing was very Ian Banks. I’d say Ian M Banks, but actually the two I first read and favourite of his science fiction are ‘The Bridge’ and ‘Walking on glass’. I don’t know if my mother and boyfriend enjoyed it much, and I’m sorry and concerned about that. But I loved it.
28 November 2015 at 11:23 #48013regarding souls- it is a word with a sometimes flexible meaning. In Russia the serfs/slaves/robots who came with the land were sometimes referred to as ‘souls’ in transfer documents and I don’t think they meant that the owners owned their immortal spirit.
25 November 2015 at 11:11 #47817@puroandson (son)- when I was a child I learned to read at an adult level by the time I was eight (I can’t remember exactly when.) My parents didn’t censor anything I read, they didn’t have anything very explicit. But I did wonder, as I grow older, about what adult content really means. My parents had a lot of sci-fi and fantasy books. As a result of some of these I trained myself not to think in sentences in my head in case someone read them, and felt paranoid if I fell over or something fell on me, or something like that.
That said, I was more or less left to it. I think when very young children watch things like Doctor Who, it ought to be a family activity, and it ought to be talked about. I think that when Doctor Who is very scary its not because it’s violent or graphic or anything that would get age restrictions put on it, it’s when it’s creepy- the Angels, the Silence, the Hand Mines. The Master/Missy’s insanity. It’s in the atmosphere. It’s scary because it isn’t (Unlike those 80’s films) gratuitous.
Every few years they seem to dig up version of the Brothers Grimm children stories that are even more violent and disturbing than the last discovery. The idea that children should be somehow innocent and protected is a fairly recent (from a long, long historical view) recent idea. Where I think we are safe with Doctor Who is that there is an idea of- morality? rightness? Principle? under it all. A little like Buffy refusing to sacrifice her sister.
(Sorry about the ramble, I’m supposed to be doing something else. I’ll get around to it…)
25 November 2015 at 09:49 #47813So nice to see you, @puroandson, what a good idea, and a great opportunity to draw llion into the dark world of bonkers theorising…
and kudos to @tardisblue, the doctor has indeed played a part in the creation of a hybrid.
(boy)llion can have a drink if he orders something to eat, surely? just keep away from the finger foods…
23 November 2015 at 21:36 #47667Dear purofilion (Melissa).
i’m so sorry to hear your news, and I’m sorry about what’s happened here because I really know that isn’t you. Thank you for your kindness, your theories and your wonderful posts about your family.
Katharine.
22 November 2015 at 22:19 #47557I also meant to say (I am currently recovering from a motorbike ride and my brain, like my fingers, is still defrosting) that Clara’s death reminded me a little of Rita’s from The God Complex. ‘Let me be robbed of my faith in’ \I can’t quite remember the quote- private? Alone?
22 November 2015 at 21:56 #47555@bendubz11- I wasn’t even thinking about the significance of the teleport bracelet, but I am now.
22 November 2015 at 21:54 #47554I meant to say, one reason why I’m unsure about the Clara death is that Moffart is given a bit of a name for resurrections, and this might be the point where he went too far.
I agree with @purofilion that Rigsby was a character easy to care about. He was clever, nice and interesting in his first episode, and now with added baby, clearly a good father (who’s other half rings him when the baby is screaming to calm it down.) That is more than enough to care about him.
(Also, if @purofilion does read that, I really hope you’re alright, and that we’ll see you back soon.)
22 November 2015 at 21:05 #47550I really, really, really love the concept of an infinite lifespan and very finite memory. She can be a different person, guided by different memories and experiences. She would also be fairly easy to manipulate, like a slow moving silence effect.
Is Clara really dead? I’m a little torn. I loved the performance in this, and it’s a pretty good death, in it’s way, coming about equally through her strengths and weaknesses. It seems a little odd in its timing, and I don’t feel everything has been shown about Clara- the clothes Me was wearing, for example, in that photograph.
I definitely have the feeling that it’s impossible to judge these episodes entirely until the end of the series. And yet the arc has been subtle, that is, I’m still not sure what it is…
17 November 2015 at 09:15 #47184@kharis- if you mean the origin story of the Angels, I only wish it had been my idea 🙂 + @Bluesqueakpip- yes, this was above all a brave episode, and I think it will be a grower. I also think that at the moment, with the information we have right now, it’s hard to tell its precise significance. As a one off it’s interesting, if a little baffling, and perfect for bonkers theorising. If it gets picked up on later, who knows…
16 November 2015 at 12:56 #4710015 November 2015 at 10:04 #46976What was that about the gods every time they spoke on the communicators- and in the advert as well. Is that some consequence of the catastrophe, and is there a connection between ‘gods’ and corporations, other than the names?
(Incidentally, one small niggle, Clara seemed a little more pleased with herself than she needed to be for knowing who Morpheus is.)
I definitely need to watch this again. I liked all the individual scenes (baring one, see above) but didn’t quite catch the thread of it.
Incidentally, I watched Cloverfield the other night. The monster was mostly just glimpsed but actually help up, for once, when seen. And I’m trying to track down another film made around the same time as Blair Witch, about the Blair Witch, but it was the (fictional) making of a documentary about it and creepily good…
15 November 2015 at 09:35 #46974@Mudlark- no problem. This remains one of the most civil corners of the internet. I do need to re-watch, I’ve slightly lost track of my own argument… sorry to hear about your back.
12 November 2015 at 16:30 #46841@mudlark, but the Osgoods knew that there was nothing in the boxes, and they were at the negotiations- ironically, the only participants who knew which was which. I think it’s up for debate, but quite likely that in such a negotiations decisions might be made that the parties might be less keen on once they know who is who- the Osgoods exceptions from this aspect made them the ideal peace-holders. As @arbutus says, a treaty made in these conditions probably makes a good treaty. I just wonder if it is one either side would have entirely stamped once the conditions changed.
@pedant, re: truth or consequences, that does make sense. Unit thought she was going off the rails but she was following the plan. a bit brutal for the inhabitants of both species, but, I suppose, war and peace…
10 November 2015 at 09:10 #46704<span style=”color: #000000; font-family: Times New Roman;”>@jphamlore- but I think the point about the peace is that it isn’t dictated by the doctor. It was negotiated between Kate and the Zygon leader and for all we know included the clause: ‘the boxes will be a bluff to draw attention and Kate will have her memories wiped if she goes off message’. I don’t see any indication that the peace treated arrived at is the best, or ideal, but it is the one decided by both sides in ignorance of which side they would turn out to be on. So these are terms designed and affected by human Kate under the impression that she might be a Zygon, not what she would have reached if she had known, and vice versa. A vote wasn’t taken by the human population, it is a top-down decision, but it is one taken by humans, not imposed on them. </span>
10 November 2015 at 09:09 #46703<span style=”color: #000000; font-family: Times New Roman;”>@bluesqueakpip, @mudlark- yes, it was a very different Osgood. I don’t know how that ties into their connection, unless it’s the fact that most people lose their confidence when they deal with the master- and as ultimate fan-girl, she would be as terrified by missy as she is bolstered up by the doctor. At the same time, the loss of her sister could have had an effect on her personality, although more self-confident seems counter-intuitive unless, as @bluesqueakpip says, she always was the confident part. At the same time, though, this was her area. Her peacekeeping, her box, this is where she matters. And yes, she does need to run away through time and space for adventures or to feel important- she is important on earth. </span>
<span style=”color: #000000; font-family: Times New Roman;”>@Arbutus, @Mudlark- yes, I think the way she kept wanting to know is Osgood was a zygon at least means she has no such relationship of her own.</span>
8 November 2015 at 14:40 #46595I meant to say as well- seeing Clara inside her own mind, fighting for control was a brilliant call back to Coleman’s first appearance.
Re: Osgoods- for a moment Bonnie turning into another Osgood actually disturbed me. Partly because Bonnie had been quite insistent on her own name and identity. It made me think about Osgood as hybrid, because it wasn’t just human Osgood’s personality, she acquired the zygons confidence. So with this paring is there going to be any other change, or is Bonnie buried?
8 November 2015 at 12:41 #46588Absolutely loved this, and the last one.
I’m not a Clara hater, I like her as a companion, I just like Coleman’s other characters a little better. Now the order is: Dalak Clara, Bonnie, Governess Clara, Companion Clara. It shows what a surprisingly subtle actor she really is.
The Doctor slightly reassured me this week. The moment in the last episode when he was introducing himself with, I thought, a little too much relish as ‘President of the world’ to the response ‘yes, we know who you are’ (I didn’t imagine that did I?) was momentarily disturbing, giving what happened to Harriot Jones. But in the Unit room, here, I think we did get to see who he is. Discovering he didn’t wipe out the Timelords doesn’t make everything better. He was still the War Doctor, he still did plenty before that, he still made the decision to press the button. As long as there is a button, there is someone who will want to press it. (Corbyn aside…)
Osgood was wonderful here, and really, I’d love to see both of them in the Tardis, but I think they’ve made it clear it’s not happening.
and @hillforest, yes, centre screen as well, did the Doctor even notice it?
28 October 2015 at 08:16 #45722@everyone- I would say Masie is better in Game of Thrones- but she’s been doing it for so much of her life. Watching her act with Charles Dance was one of the best experiences in my life. She is very good, but creating a new character (or two) for this season is very different from growing up in a role. She will only get better. (As for Game of Thrones, I like it,
(maybe spoilers but i think this was clear from the start:) all the interesting things happened about a generation before the start, hence quite a lot of hinting and exposition, but really its about silly humans squabbling over a bauble while the real fight is pretty much between nuclear weapons and climate change.
Back to this- fantastic spot @kharis wasn’t it? I don’t think Me is Clara’s mother either. But this doesn’t mean a lot of Clara might now be understood. She ‘blew into life on a leaf’ which caused her parents, surnamed Ravenwood and Oswald to marry and some how (maybe maybe not biologically) have a child. Giving Me Norse (?) origins is interesting…
JanetteB and a very nice bootstrap paradox they are too… love a cocktail.
27 October 2015 at 09:03 #45650I defiantly get the feel of a recurring character. And I loved the way they developed her story telling. From the last episode where she told stories to try and affect the outcome, then told herself bad stories and thought she was making them happen. Now she is writing stories about herself, which become just that, stories, because her human brain cannot hold all the memories. In a similar way, I think Auton Rory held it all together, but as a human he lost control/access to them all at all times.
In some ways Me is like the opposite of a Timelord. She retains her personality (or rather, her personality continues to develop in an uninterrupted line) but loses the memories of her previous self. This also means she can serve as a goodie or a baddie at various points in the future.
a lot of moaning about cocktails on the Guardian, given that she’s functionally immortal. Maybe she goes on to officially ‘invent’ the cocktail 150 years later? on the other hand, introducing her to cocktails is pretty much the kind of thing Missy or River might do. Missy seems likely because of ‘anachronisms!’ River seems possible because of the diary thing.
I liked the joke telling on the gallows, the desperation of trying to keep people laughing to put off his death, if only for a few more moments. The lion man looked familiar, I actually thought we’d seen his kind before, but I might be thinking of a Beauty and the Beast costume or something like that. There was an odd balance of light and dark, and I think this is why I liked the gallows humour. We tend to laugh out of a sense of discomfort, which is why black humour works so well. The alien threat was certainly secondary, but I think that was partly because this was one of the episodes that demonstrated that one alien threat earth is constantly after is posed by the Doctor. And that seemed to be what Me was saying- in the nicest possible way.
18 October 2015 at 09:19 #45009@Bluesqueskpip, @scaryb fair point over the machina and I hang my head- to be fair a lot of it was foregrounded- she thought of stories and worried that it would make things happen, she made weird puppets, there was a projection of an illusion. I suppose I was as confused as the baddie was, (and in my defence, it’s not my tec!
thing is I did really enjoy watching it, but the bad feeling remains. As @phaseshift says. the immortality is troublesome. (And also- god of war/minister of war? that’s brilliant.)
He’s sick of losing people. If anything, the changes he made to history in the last episode might have suited the choice of face better. And I think the immortality chip could have been foregrounded. For example, the Mire get to masquerade as gods because they have this tech to make them indestructible. Clara almost does an eleven and gets them to turn away, but they have this? And I’m disturbed by how quickly he makes such a terrible decision. Perhaps because we’ve had two parters so far, and this is in fact a one parter in terms of the story (as @bluesqueakpip says, an origin story). That said, this season has been especially about losing people. He thinks Clara is dead, then he almost kills her, then he loses a team member, Clara is mourning Danny in a disturbing fashion. Its also been about changing history, and the two come together here.
@jeff Maise plays the apparently unkillible character in a television show which kills anyone. So its not impossible, but she might be set up as a recurring character.
17 October 2015 at 21:24 #44946oh i have a bad feeling about this. And I don’t just mean the insane moral flaws in the Doctors decision- that I liked. Giving her the chance to give another immortality- just as flawed, I’ll take that.
And I really liked this episode. Capaldi was great. Clara was almost like a calmed down Dalek Clara. Hints that the doctor wants her to quit for real this time, but can’t bare to lose her. The atmosphere, the dialogue, I loved it.
Question: did anyone else think things were going to go another direction? Someone in the village saying ‘we can’t leave’, the Maise Williams character talking about this being the place where she feels at home, when she would surely have lived there all her life?
And worry: did they establish about the power of those helmets, or are things about to get very grim in certain parts of the internet? It’s an established thing now for arguments to develop over whether its deau ex machina or Chekov’s gun, but at the moment I’m tempted to call machina. Is this an editing problem, or did I miss something?
another question- was the doctor wrong in thinking that this moment was the decision his choosing a familiar face was telling him about, or did he get it wrong? Immortality is a hell of a thing to do to somebody, and he, the he that first saw that face, knew that from experience.
13 October 2015 at 08:33 #44672@TheBrainOfMoffat- I do also think they were a troll, or at least, someone looking for a place to moan and criticise. But they spent more time huffing about having apparently (before their own post) discovering their opinions were unwanted then they did expressing their opinions. This site was started as a reaction to the depressingly negative commentary on the Guardian thread. One prominent early member wasn’t, as I recall, a fan of Smith as the Doctor, but things remained civilized. I’ve even seen conversations get a little heated on this site, but then everyone seems to calm down and not declare war and that is a rare thing on the internet and worth protecting ;).
People tend to engage on the mad theories level more than on criticism, because that’s really what this forum is about. And I’ve seen since this forum begun people join and become key members whose opinions hold a lot of weight as people get to know them. So I hope people aren’t put off.
12 October 2015 at 15:08 #44599I know a lot of attention has gone on the breaking of the forth wall. This might be because so much of what I read comes from the 19th and 18th centuries, but the idea of the forth wall- the idea of the pretence that this is not a play, a book, a television program seems quite modern. (Well, inevitably for the last one…) Internal monologues on the stage have for centuries had an element of consciously addressing the audience. I’ve just finished reading Don Quixote which spends a lot of time talking about the composition of the novel. Victorian authors are often breaking off to have a chat with the reader.
I like the moments when the Doctor talks to us- I liked it in Listen as well. Partly because Capaldi is so good at it. It also increases the sense of the Doctor as a kind of teacher, and I’ve always preferred to think of him as that kind of teacher. It also draws a comparison to Missy telling Clara a story. It also acknowledged that we all knew he wasn’t going to really die, and that the fun is in seeing what he’s going to do.
11 October 2015 at 08:39 #44479@Craig- re guardian comments- I had noticed they were a bit better (and, sadly this seems to be connected, fewer) but that could partly be because some of the constant complains have been addressed- we now have lots of two partners, actual aliens, people running down corridors- its all quite old who. So most of the moaners who have ay streak of logic and consistency have shut up. That will always leave some, though… I had thought there would be more protest over the cup of tea comment at the start of the season- that was brilliant trollbate.
@PhaseShift- what was that ‘minister of war’ thing? Is that a change that’s been made? It reminded me briefly of the whole ‘oh yes, the new Prime Minister of England’ bit back under RTD.
@everyone about Clara- the one thing that bugged me in this episode is the fact she didn’t mention to the Doctor, when she told him about ghost him, that he was saying different words until he bought it up. The situation is that the thing that happened to all these others has happened to him, but this is a significant difference. They could have realised that while the Doctor was on the phone. I loved her unhinged moment- you don’t do that to me- she came over a little River for a moment there. I think there was also a little healing in this episode. Part of her anger at the idea of his death was because she needs the doctor because she lost Danny. Later she was talking to someone who had lost someone. People have suggested- in the other place- that she seems completely over his death. I think Danny’s death is written all over her.
4 October 2015 at 12:45 #44032@hudsey- brilliant- yes, I think that would work. (Doctor in the life support, that is.)
4 October 2015 at 12:39 #44030I love the two parters, a slower build up. I spent about the first half of this episode smiling, Capaldi was fantastic. The second half I actually felts half panicked, which doesn’t usually happen.
One question- if the ghosts ‘don’t come out during day’, how are they messing with the computers to bring day? I love the literalism of it, and I get that there is probably something in day mode that interferes with them- but then, how are they overriding the computer?
28 September 2015 at 10:43 #43696@221BadWolf- Dalak Clara was actually called Oswin Oswald. No Clara in her name. and by saving River she did help save the doctor in The Name of the Doctor.
26 September 2015 at 22:22 #43479@hudsey I think Missy made it clear earlier on that the slime were, understandably, resentful of the still functioning Dalek who still get to move around in cases… and the confession dial came in throughout the two episodes… yes sometimes here the theories are more insane than what is actually happening, but as @bluesqueakpip says, a lot of this episode challenges the idea that Daleks have to be entirely evil- which is something Moffat has been doing since Into the Dalek. They are designed and programmed to be evil, but it can be defied.
Davros’ comment about seeing the sun even reminded me of RTD’s first Dalek episode. a lot of it was talking to the watchers, though. ‘How did I get a cup of tea? I just did.’ ‘I’ve just had a brilliant idea’. a lot of good use of bathos. ‘conclusion: I’m totally stealing his chair’
I think this was set out well. We learn that Davros could not eliminate respect for a leader. Nor, we discover, could he eliminate the concept of mercy. ScaryB- shuddering, I wonder what the Daleks were really saying to River- if it’s possible that for all Daleks, much of what they say is translated.
What do we think about the ‘upgrade’ comment? Does put me in mind of Ramona…
@phoebe-phire- to be fair, nor were gender transitioning humans, at least in the mainstream…
22 September 2015 at 08:48 #43223<span style=”color: #000000; font-family: Times New Roman;”>@jphamlore- and it was interesting to re-visit Davors’ motivation. Not that I want, particularly, to feel sorry for Davros, but some understanding is helpful. ‘it’s just- the war’, war for his entire life and probably generations before this. The Time War, for context, might have gone on for as long and probably longer but did not, as far as I know (?) encompass the Doctors entire childhood and early life. And it still drove him to pretty desperate measures. I think we’ll definitely revisit ‘you would make a good darlek’ with this proviso- he would, but he won’t. Just as the Claracle, the crazy daleks thought, would make a good dalek, in instead, made a dalek who was still good. </span>
22 September 2015 at 08:40 #43222Mmm, there is a fair bit of moaning in The Other Place, but really a lot of positives as well. I’m glad to read people talking about their children really enjoying it. I love the mystery, and I would have as a child, but its good to confirm the enjoyment isn’t as tightly confined as some make out.
Watched it again yesterday, and a couple of thoughts: Is there more to Davros’ presence there? What, as the soldiers ask him, is he doing on the battle field? I’m not saying SM isn’t quite capable of just leaving it with ‘he got lost’ but I wonder… the child actor is really good, isn’t he?
Second thought- Missy and the daleks- is she just being The Master and attempting to switch sides- after all, she hasn’t turned good- or is she trying to save the Tardis? Killing off a few humans to prove a point is one thing, but she is a timelord/timelady (I’d prefer the title to be gender neutral, as well as Master, but then, she is evil…) and a tardis is- something else. Not only useful, but conscious, and one- maybe the last one- being destroyed by the Daleks might rankle. As for the Doctor- her ‘friend’- she’s seen him get over the death of companions (with a maybe to her eyes unnecessary sulking period) but Sexy?
20 September 2015 at 21:46 #43081OK, loved it. Had a friend over for his birthday last night so we had a poker and no TV rule, watched it this morning when I was still a little drunk (there’s only really one cure for a hangover…) and with a lot of non-fans, and everyone was impressed.
@Mudlark- I liked- well I didn’t like- but its good that they showed Missy do that. It can be interesting to have her Master as a recurring character, and Gomez is a wonderful actor, but the Master is and must be… not good.
@bluesequakpip- man is timelords best friend…
Re: Clara and the Daleks- not strictly relevant but I wonder what is the difference between Clara and the Claracle that became Dalacized. @nerys- interesting that you say that. A lot of people like the Dalek Clara more than the person who eventually appeared. There was a kind of cockiness to her that I liked. Also re: location- I like the idea of seeing more space and time. Modern day Earth has quite a lot of Televisual attention as it is.
@JanetteB- he is an old punk isn’t he? He looked so happy in that scene
17 September 2015 at 17:19 #42785@ichabod, @Mudlark- I woke up the other night and there was a monster under my bed- we have a lot of boxes pushed under, and one of the dogs fell between the bed and the wall and couldn’t get out. @Purofilion- I even know people who go to spiritualist meetings. Personally I think they just make death seem deathly dull. However many years on this world, living in it, then eternally peering down from somewhere, passing on messages via dead Native Americans and living men in ill-fitting suits. Please, no. Unless it means I can have all my dogs back…
@Blenkinsopthebrave- I think the doctor says that Rupert’s memories are wiped. Probably for the best, Clara and Danny’s first date was quite awkward enough…
@JanettB, I like the idea of Orsan being Danny’s father. As for the soldier- it was in the set in his bedroom, it becomes ‘his’ because Clara say’s it is his. Clara gets it from Orsan who does seem, as @bluesqueakpip says, to know to give it to her. And that is entirely the kind of thing Missy tends to do when it comes to Clara.
6 September 2015 at 16:24 #42407oh, by the way, has anyone here bought/used an edition of ‘The Chambers Dictionary’? It’s been suggested by my course, but looking at Amazon reviews (which are not always helpful, unless you’re browsing male hair removal products) editions after the 11th seem less good quality and are missing many, many words. The 11th is from 2008. Is that too old?
6 September 2015 at 09:47 #42401@pedant- of course, and I didn’t mean to come across as a snowflake :). One thing I like to do (well, one thing I do, at least) when editing is take the piece of writing and remove around one third of the words. I might put some back in later, but I find it does focus the writing (I do incline, by nature, to witter.)
(btw sorry about the formatting thing. Suddenly my word is insisting I use control v rather than right clicking to paste.)
(OK and then it didn’t do that. My computer hates me.)
6 September 2015 at 09:42 #42400<span style=”color: #000000; font-family: Times New Roman;”>@JannetteB- yes, of course it was- I think I was thinking of ‘Fathers and son’s’ and transposed it. Yes, it started very strongly. I love the idea of a romance that takes place within a discussion of the effects of the industrial revolution and the changes it bought- both positive and negative. And then- lots and lots of plot happens. Maybe too much plot.</span>
<span style=”color: #000000; font-family: Times New Roman;”>@Arbutus- yes, humour is a great saving grace. The key to Jane’s character, of course, is pride. Her feelings of humiliation at the point of marrying him without money of her own in particular. The plot does fall into absurdity, but for me the gothic elements of the story help carry it off. Incidentally, one of the things I love about Austin is that you could put all her primary protagonists in a room together, and they probably wouldn’t all like each other. </span>
4 September 2015 at 12:24 #42351@missy- also re Pratchett- the ‘young adult’ books really aren’t very different from the ‘adult’ ones. In fact, they deal with some quite messy, indeed, adult, themes. If anything, I’d say they’re young adult in that the main protagonist is, in fact, a young adult, as did ‘Equal Rites’, and much along that vain.
4 September 2015 at 12:19 #42350@Jimthefish- Franzen is one of my favourite modern authors. I see what you mean about writers who are not afraid to be writers- one thing that always sends me reeling from writers groups is this tendency towards a common type of prose-everything has to be completely simple, you can’t leave the reader in any kind of uncertainty for a second, everything seems to get rather flattened out.
(I only said Dickens would say verbose as a joke!)
@missy- the terry Pratchett conversation began near the end of the last sofa thread, where we were talking about the rather unpleasant trolling of Pratchett fans in the Guardian- an article stating that Pratchett’s books were trash and, essentially, insulting anyone who likes them. I do feel compelled to point out that my saying that I don’t like Dickens wasn’t in anyway a denigration of him, but an illustration of how one person can not enjoy reading a particular author without saying that the author writes trash- the point I was making was that I can’t get on with him, but he is a vastly loved and admired writer, it would be ridiculous for me to say he wasn’t good. 🙂
Radcliff is I think one of the better gothic novelists, though she did spend a lot of time describing Italian scenery. Gaskell is very patchy but I do like Mothers and Daughters and North and South (though the latter does get quite silly at the end).
4 September 2015 at 09:33 #42342@janetteb, @purofilion- well this is why articles like the one mentioned are so absurd- however little I care for Dickens (I’m more of a Trollope woman (though that doesn’t sound right…) he treats his saints with cynicism and his sinners with compassion.) But it’s clearly a matter of different, not superior taste and how anyone can confuse the two in the way Jones did is beyond me.
@missy- for me its not really the wordiness. (Though I do think Dickens would choose ‘verbose’ 😉 )I’d honestly prefer to read Richardson, unabridged. I vastly prefer Radcliff, and she certainly knew how to fill the pages. I do by and large prefer pre-Victorian literature. Of course Eliot (apart from the Historical Novel) all the Bronte’s (but particularly Anne) Gaskell could also be quite wordy- writers typically were at the time. Austin was unusual in her pared down prose style, partly, I think, a result of a decade or so between first writing and publishing her first two books- that’s a lot of tinkering and thinking time.
3 September 2015 at 15:52 #42324@purofilion- thank you!
@purofilion, @ichabod: I actually went to Public (brit) school, fees were about £12,000 a year by the time I left. In some aspects the school in If… had something in common- we had some very good, motivated, interesting and interesting teachers, but the day to day life in the school was a nightmare- it was a boarding school, and it was by and large the other pupils who were the problem. I’d been to a state primary school, it was like immigrating to a different country. My mother had had a knife pulled on her as a teacher in a comprehensive near where we lived, hence the private school and the boarding part was at my (brattish and a little harsh, I realise now) request.
-
AuthorPosts
