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8 March 2014 at 15:45 #26259
It’s actually been quite a while since I watched this, and I’d forgotten how impressive some of the visual FX truly are. The CGI on the spiders themselves is well done considering the TV budget. It was an astute move to basically shout “YES WE HAVE A BUDGET” early on.
So – the Doctor and his “plus one” turn up on a space station. Let’s face it, he’s in the mood to impress his new companion. With all of Time and Space to wow her with, he brings her to see the destruction of her own planet. It’s not quite the Restaurant at the End of the Universe, but would surely pack an emotional punch to an inhabitant of said world. Perhaps there is something nagging at the Doctor?
Any wake needs guests of course, and the guest list shows a lot of imagination. I actually like how the slightly malevolent looking Moxx of Balhoon turned out to be such as cosmic old woman. Also top marks for the name “The Adherents of the Repeated Meme”. RTD showing some foresight in predicting a contingent of BTL commentators, there. Rewatching this episodes I couldn’t help mentally ticking a box when the big ‘ol Face of Boe mentions a Bad Wolf scenario.
After rejecting the obvious advances of Rose’s mum last week, here the Doctor meets a flirtations tree and flirts right back. You tend to forget the ninth Doctor was a bit of a flirt himself. When the War Doctor asked “is there a lot of this in the future”, he really didn’t know how quickly it would come about.
I think you can tell I enjoyed this a bit more than Rose, and I confirm I did the first time round. I still think the tone is pitching towards a bit farcical at times, but for some reason I still find myself immersing in it. I think a big reason is there is really no prior anchor point (as the Autons were in Rose) for me to evaluate against prior experience. This is all new territory.
I’ve heard people complain about Cassandra, but again, in a comic way her snobbishness about being the last human is pretty funny. I think the voice performance by Zoe Wannamaker is great. As a satire against the extremes of cosmetic surgery, it’s broad, but no broader than some of the BG years attempts.
Really, hats off to Billie Piper in this. I think her reaction to suddenly finding herself in this position feels very real. I think she conveys that sudden disconnection and being somehow “lost” really well.
I also reallt admire the scene where the button that will save the day is trapped behind an unnecessarily complicated death machine(tm). I thought the scene where they took the piss in the film Galaxy Quest may make people reticent to continue using that device, but it’s good to see the old traditions continue. Poor Jabe.
I really like the speech and confessional about the Doctor and the fate of his planet at the end. It’s a nice attention grabbing sting in the tale, signalling that a substantially darker tone may be possible in the new iteration.
8 March 2014 at 14:12 #26257Hi @juniperfish.
Yes, I thought the Fades was a real missed opportunity for continuing drama. The second series of In the Flesh is being done, and there are rumours of a consolidated six part of series 1 and 2 on BBC2. It may actually find a bigger audience there.
8 March 2014 at 14:08 #26256The autobiography was “Who on Earth is Tom Baker” (and very good it was too), and I can agree there were an awful lot of valid reasons for him not wanting to go back at that point.
I didn’t realise Alfie Enoch was the son of William Russell, but spot on. A testament to “you’re never too old…”.
Heartily agree with @blenkinsopthebrave and everyone else that a guest spot by Ian would be welcome.
7 March 2014 at 00:41 #26199It’s quite true about Hurndall. I was quite a young fan in the Appreciation Society (early teens) at the time and got a lot of the fanzines and newsletters. Man – they went crazy that year. Full of what you might charitably term “green crayon” letters. I gave up in the end.
7 March 2014 at 00:22 #26198That was an odd one about BF. It was a comment on one of their forums which was indulging in some gratuitous schadenfreude against the BBC, effectively congratulating Big Finish for getting one over on them in the contract (which was set up in the late 90s when Who was most definitively off-air with little hope of returning). The comment (and commentator) were soon deleted (which means nothing – it could have been factually wrong, in which case some of the language was defamatory).
Largely I’d agree with you about BBC3 and 4, but I suppose we both are theoretically more suited to the demographic of the 4. I’d like to see them get a bit of that drama money to do a few home-grown projects again. I know the Scandi-noir gets the Guardian excited, but I used to enjoy a lot of their one-shots and films. I’m thinking of Ian Rankin’s Reichenbach Falls, the John Wyndham parallel universe story Random Quest, The First Men in the Moon (Mark Gattis), The Quatermass Experiment restage, as well as the docu-dramas like Fantabulosa. They really spent their money well, when they had a drama budget.
6 March 2014 at 20:55 #26190If BBC Three had still been going they’d probably have updated the “Ultimate Guide” and thrown another embarrassingly awful “party”
Ohhhhhh. Gawd bless you, guv. A timely reminder that things could always be worse. 😀
6 March 2014 at 20:47 #26189I like the thought of seeing a bit more McGann if possible. I’m not sure if we have anybody who is more familiar with these issues, but I read a suggestion a while ago that to use the Eighth Doctor in the minisode, the BBC had to approach Big Finish, which has an exclusive contract to produce “broadcastable content” featuring the specified older Doctors. The suggestion is that the contract was drawn up in the Gap, is fairly watertight, and the reason that the Big Finish companions got the namecheck was a condition of Big Finish, for the BBC to use the Eighth Doctor in it.
It actually sounded crazy enough to be true.
(and he gasps in the cringe-worthiness of the thought) the two doctor story, and I apologise the name escapes me, with Colin Baker and Patrick Troughton.
Ah. The Two Doctors, it was called, predictably enough. 😉
6 March 2014 at 20:29 #26188I think irrespective of whether Tom regretted it later, I’m sure you’ll agree it was his decision to make based on what he felt at the time. Same with Eccles. The amount of vitriol from certain over-emotional elements of fandom could be alarming even before the invention of t’internet*.
* (For The Five Doctors, see also: Poison Pen letters to Richard Hurndall for daring to take the role of the First Doctor when offered it)
6 March 2014 at 19:48 #26186Actually I thought the first series was locked away exclusively in second rights showings on pay-TV (Watch, etc) so the likelihood of a repeat of that was slim.
I’ve been following the announcement on BBC3 myself. I’m hoping some of that £30m will be still go towards some quirky material of the type BBC3 used to show (Being Human, The Fades, In the Flesh) on other channels. After a brief bloom of interest in genre sparked largely by Doctor Who, new offerings seem remarkably thin on the ground.
To put a clear Doctor Who spin on the news though:
BBC3 Cancelled
“Let’s see how YOU like it”, says Doctor Who Confidential Team. 😉
6 March 2014 at 17:14 #26178Just out of interest following on from the earlier mention of next year – does anyone think much will be made of the 10th Anniversary of the return?
I can imagine there will be competing views on this. I can imagine BBC Worldwide thinking “ooh- another anniversary. Ideal to big up and sell more stuff”.
I can also imagine wiser heads explaining they’ve invested considerable resources into ensuring BG and AG Who are seen as a continuous property – which has just had a 50 year anniversary, so why create a notional division by having a 10th celebration? Personally I’d ere on the side of it being a lower key marketing event (10 year box sets, new special features, blah, blah) than anything bigger.
6 March 2014 at 17:09 #26177@tomsscarf @devilishrobby
I think @bluesqueakpip is talking an awful lot of sense here. I recognise a lot of this from 80s fandom with Tom Baker. He refused an offer to come back for an anniversary and didn’t really engage much with fan events for a good period, and there were always some who held it against him. Fandom doesn’t own these people, and they should be allowed to live by their own rules.
Eccleston is well known for declining repeat or continuing work, and you’ll find joke comments about the saddest man in showbusiness being his agent littered around. Just after Who he appeared in the US series Heroes and turned down a very substantial offer to reprise his role of Claude in the second series (some might say wisely after the way it turned out). It may seem odd to some, but then again, some might celebrate him for seeking new challenges and not living off past glories.
6 March 2014 at 15:11 #26174Probably renegotiating their pay (upwards) each time, as well.
And quite right too 😉 I think both Tennant and Smith were reported as being on a payment escalator series by series. It’s actually a pretty good low risk model for both them and the BBC really. The BBC doesn’t particularly have to worry about waving a huge amount of dosh on a “name” who may turn out less than successful.
Glad to hear to worlds of Doctor Who Forum social activity continues apace.
But I will say this, the role of Richelieu is kind of integral to the Musketeers and Capaldi can’t do both really. Something’s going to have to be recast at some point.
I spotted this a while ago, a bit after the announcement. At the time of Capaldi being cast there had been no confirmation there would be a second series of Musketeers, as it depended upon reception. Basically they are responding by going in a different direction than the source material. To summarise:
Hodges also appeared to confirm that Capaldi’s Doctor Who commitments will rule him out of appearing in a potential second series of The Musketeers.
“[We’ll] have a kind of ‘series villain’ policy which I think will keep the show fresh,” he said.
Which will no doubt anger purists of the originals, but probably won’t trouble anyone who isn’t that familiar.
I think it’s interesting the way the BBC wove both Tennant and Smith into other productions while they were the Doctor in their first couple of years. I can imagine them discussing other projects exterior to Who with Capaldi that he wants to do as a sideline. Given his Writer & Director status, this could also include a couple of pet projects in that direction. I think the approach may help with itchy feet syndrome to a certain extent, and alleviate certain concerns that you may end up being pidgeon holed as The Doctor (even if your obituary will inevitably say..Former Doctor..). 😀
5 March 2014 at 22:45 #26150it’s more than a little impolite to start talking about an actor’s replacement when the poor bugger’s barely had a chance to get three lines out
That as well. 😉 I’ve seen it cropping up on more than a few websites, a cast-iron belief in some quarters he’ll only serve one series. I think it may be wishful thinking in some parts of the audience who wanted young/sexy as the next Doctor, and those who think his end will mark the point that Steven Moffat will step down – and that’s more what they want.
Thing is though – SMs on record as saying that the circumstances he took the job (new Doctor & main cast/entirely new senior team) weren’t really the best to ensure smooth transition. There’s no guarantee that it’ll happen that way in the future, and if he were to step down, we know these things are planned out way in advance, and his successor could have been consulted on the choice of Capaldi.
5 March 2014 at 21:55 #26147That gif never gets old. 😀 I don’t think I’d count Space Museum as my “go to” episode for the first Doctor in most circumstances, but there are interesting elements to it.
5 March 2014 at 21:39 #26144I think that may be a request that will send members of the site screaming from their computer screens. We kind of got “next-Doctor-speculation-itis” after the first four weeks of last years silly season, and still haven’t recovered. Your can check out some suggestions on the first twelve pages of the Next Doctor thread (Part one).
For me, a large amount of “who comes next” will depend on how Capaldi plays the character and what traits of Capaldi he needs to “reject” to form a new personality.
Mind – if you are starting a pre-emptive “the Doctor must be female/non-white” meme can I also highlight an important cause I intend to promote next time? Yes – the next Doctor ought to be Welsh. 9 English and 3 Scottish actors now makes Doctor Who thunderously regionalist. Our Welsh cousins deserve a fair crack of the whip now that Cardiff is Who Home Base.
5 March 2014 at 17:09 #26139@tomsscarf
There is a fair amount of discussion on those points on the Time of the Doctor (link) thread, if you want to read and post your thoughts or questions on the specific thread (this really isn’t the thread for in-depth discussion).
Needless to say though, he suggested that the Time Lords would be Frozen in Day of the Doctor, and it turned out he was wrong. It’s part of the proud tradition of the Doctor being wrong on quite a few things over the years.
5 March 2014 at 16:21 #26137I look forward to your comments. Actually, I almost threw a spoke in the works after catching up on the Time of the Doctor threads, and noted some ongoing confusion about how the Doctor could change the outcome of Trenzalore. I was going to suggest a rewatch of Space Museum. Arguably the Doctors first “Trenzalore” – he changed the outcome of a potential end point for himself.
A lot of the components of SMs timey-wimeyness that some people complain about have clear precedents in Who history. So it could be a good reminder that when some claim that he has no rules for Time travel, he seems to be using the rules established in a 50 year history. 😉 Perhaps the next round of BG stories could be themed around this concept? (Gosh – planning ahead for 2015. That’s adventurous!)
5 March 2014 at 15:04 #26135@Tomsscarf @faegrl
Unless there is a late surge for something else, The Mind Robber is the serial we’ll be moving onto after The Time Meddler.
5 March 2014 at 14:58 #26134I lost my internet connection at the weekend, so didn’t get round to:
Coming Soon
We’ll be restarting the BG retrospectives this weekend on a week by week basis. We’re going from One onwards, and for the First Doctor we’ll be looking at The Time Meddler, a four parter. There will be existing review material available, but, as ever, your viewing experience will probably be much better if you buy the original.
Cheapest internet deal at the moment appears to be the BBC shop where it’s available for £5.49 of your Earth Pounds. Amazon have it for £6.50.
The Time Meddler has a number of claims to fame. It’s the first attempt at the kind of historical as we probably recognise it today. It’s also the first story where the Doctor has a YANA moment (of a kind).
5 March 2014 at 14:35 #26129@blenkinsopthebrave @thekrynoidman
Best wishes for a rapid recovery @blenkinsopthebrave. I share the love of Day of the Triffids (I’d noted your request on the earlier thread @thekrynoidman). I think we’ll feature it soon enough with a few other one-off features and series, but as we’ve just started the RTD retrospective and are about to restart the BG retrospectives with The Time Meddler, we’ll let them bed in for a few weeks before restarting another multi-part story.
5 March 2014 at 14:26 #26127@Tomsscarf
Geek and Nerd have rather lost their power since they inherited the Earth. As a scientist and sci-fi fan I’m happily confirmed as nerd squared and will happily take on the mantle.
It’s interesting how these things change. I think you’ll find many of the older fans decline to use the term “Whovian” because it was largely a media construct and used in a pretty dismissive and derogatory way in articles back in the day. It came as quite a surprise to me that the newer generation seemed happy enough with it.
5 March 2014 at 14:18 #26125Don’t worry – I’ve made a note of your and @arbutus nomination of Genesis of the Daleks (and his alternative of Seeds of Doom). They are both additions to the pretty wide range of Fourth Doctor stories nominated. I publish the list nearer the time if we are showing the Doctors in Order to finalise. Front-runner (just) is Deadly Assassin, followed by City of Death.
5 March 2014 at 14:12 #26124Are those figures doing “The Timewarp”? How apt.
5 March 2014 at 14:05 #26122Having said all that, it would be interesting to hear from someone for who this was their first taste of Doctor Who, and what they thought. I can remember MrsPhaseshift was more entertained than I thought she’d be. She likes a lot of sci-fi but can frankly take or leave BG Who, as she wasn’t raised on it. With no preconceptions, I think her enjoyment was a bit more consistent.
5 March 2014 at 14:02 #26121…and we’re back. Welcome to the 21st Century, Doctor. I can pretty well remember I spent the time between the announcement of the return and this episode, Rose, downplaying my expectations while conveniently reading every behind the scenes announcement pretty rabidly. My internal monologue was pretty much “DO NOT SET HOPES TOO HIGH”.
I still grinned like an idiot when the music started. The update didn’t bother me in the slightest – better than the movie and I prefer it to the 80s synth heavy efforts.
Our first shot, of the Earth from space, and the zoom towards London really was an “oooh” moment for me. We’re in shiny production values territory! Because doesn’t it all look so shiny? It sounds superficial, but in the Gap a minor revolution in production values had taken place, and long gone is the curiously “dead” feel of the eighties video drama.
I like the introduction to the Doctor. Apparently, some of the BBC management thought it ought to be “bigger”, a bit more bombastic, but I think the low key “run” sequence is a good one, and the gradual reveal of the Doctor throughout the episode through the eyes of Rose was the way to introduce the character to a new generation.
I thought (and still think) Ecclestone is fine largely. I think some of the more deliberately zany stuff isn’t to his taste, and it probably shows. The struggle with the Auton arm still brings back memories of Pertwee’s gurning while fighting the tentacle in Spearhead from Space to be quite honest. Perhaps because they both feature autons? He’s no slouch for the comedy line though – I still think the sequence with Rose’s mum, his very definite “No” after a pause as he considers the likelihood of “anything could happen” is well delivered.
I’m probably a bit kinder in retrospect to some elements than I was on first watch (and it helps having seen the rest of the series). As an intro it was deliberately light-hearted. I did cringe at the wheelie bin burp. I still think Mickey the Auton replicant is a minor atrocity. I think deliberately making him so laughable in look from the outset derailed anything worthwhile you could have done with him. I prefer my Auton replicants to look like anyone else until the moment they try to kill you.
At the end of the episode, I genuinely had no idea about the reception it would get and was quite surprised by the bulk of professional reviewers being highly favourable. I’d found it entertaining, but I thought we may be entering into the Reeves and Mortimer Randall & Hopkirk (Deceased) territory at this early stage. Entertaining enough, but really uneven in tone. In retrospect, I think Russell and Jane Tranter really pushing for a 13 part run (the BBC originally wanted eight) was massively instrumental in the success of the revival. I think this captured the attention, and the interplay between Ecclestone and Piper* was a real success, and a great basis for the stories that followed.
*Who deserves a lot of credit for at least two pieces of masterful acting:
- Managing enough scenes opposite Plastic Mickey without corpsing to get the thing filmed.
- Looking with puzzled disbelief at the emerging mystery of the Doctor through Clive’s photos, when the entire audience was expecting her to say “Clive, you really should invest in a better graphic manipulation package to ensnare young people”. Honestly – even some of the very young thought they could do better. With an etch-a-sketch.
2 March 2014 at 15:03 #26023@faegrl @scaryb @bluesqueakpip @monochromedimension
It’s an odd one this, because genuinely if a female turned up to a fan gathering (common, before we discovered shouting at each other on t’internet was easier) they wouldn’t be more welcome. A bit too welcome in some cases perhaps. 😉
As @monochromedimension pointed out, it wasn’t too easy to be a fan of Who of any gender at times though. When I went to University in 88, to publicly declare your ongoing commitment for the show was to declare a vow of silence and celibacy. Well, the results were much the same. No-one would talk to you and the chances of you “getting any” were reduced to negligible.
You became used to “Who-fan whispering”. Over group drinks you could declare your love for Tom Baker. He was shared childhood experience, as we were all the same age and he was a god unto us. You had key questions prepared, like – wasn’t it hilarious when Adric died? What the hell was that celery business all about? This would identify the people who had carried on watching, and you had identified your “group” while apparently being dismissive. All very delicate.
You then met in dismal shared accommodation under strict secrecy to enjoy fifth generation pirated VHS copies of Doctor Who, Blakes 7 and other treats while drinking heavily, ineptly smoking a spliff, and expanding forth your theory on life, the universe and everything through the prism of “Planet of the Spiders”. Ahem. Allegedly. Happy times in a not so happy time for fandom.
1 March 2014 at 23:04 #25983…and how is anyone supposed to follow that post, @bluesqueakpip? 🙂 Excellent stuff.
I think anyone who hasn’t seen this before should take the opportunity. The final episode effectively pulls the strands that have been worked out in the previous episodes into a terrifying whole.
The vision of “Hob” looming above while chaos ensues is an iconic one for me, but as @bluesqueakpip notes, it’s the fact that these are normal people who are killing, joining the mob against the defenceless that is the troubling part. This is their genetic inheritance.
Putting aside the Martian aspect, this has a large element of truth within it. For a gregarious species we certainly base our group dynamics on identifying the weak. To seek out difference fairly ruthlessly on occasion. And we start at an early age, as any bullied child will tell you.
I once had the good fortune to be at a Q&A with Nigel Kneale (for a showing of Year of the Sex Olympics). It covered a lot of his work, but Quatermass featured heavily in the questions. When asked about the direct inspiration (was is race, was it the Nazis) he simply said “look around you” Before going on to say that, in truth it was all those. It was McCarthism (he’d seen some people he knew persecuted), and even time good people seemed willing to join a mob because it seemed a more immediately attractive idea that being outside it. It’s about human nature, and how we should strive to control its worst aspects. I still think he’s one of the most important TV writers we’ve produced.
I was about 11 when I purchased a second hand copy of the Script book for Quatermass and the Pit (it was the third edition, which was unusual for a script book – Arrow bought the rights after the immense success of the Penguin run). He kindly signed it for me later on but, if you are interested, here is what he wrote about the serial in his introduction a decade and a half after transmission.
—-

“Suppose a building contractor was excavating a site for a big office block and going really deep,” I remember saying, “and suddenly came across what looked like a space ship -“
“Let’s do it!” said Rudolph Cartier.
It was 1959, when a lot of reconstruction was going on, the final rebuilding of the blitzed areas. There were hoardings up everywhere with peep-holes cut in them for passers-by to inspect progress.
The idea made a third Quatermass story possible without dropping too obviously into repetition. It had to be about alien visitation, of course, and the professor instrumental in coping – those elements were inescapable. But whereas the first serial dealt with a contact in real time and the second one with an invasion already established for a year, this would be long after the event. The intrusion would have come 5 million years in the past, when no resistance was possible, so that it succeeded wholly and built certain undesirable characteristics into Earth’s future population. Quatermass would be fighting his own hereditary. A new pattern.
The first two serials had by now re-appeared in shortened cinema-film shape. The American actor Brian Donlevy, once an excellent comic heavy but gone quite to pieces, bawled his way through them in what was meant to be the role of poor Quatermass (For the record, the third and best of those films starred Andrew Kier as Quatermass).
Our new TV professor would be Andre Morell, a civilised and debonair figure. He would be the man in the middle, one of an almost symbiotic trio. On one side of him would be the primitive Breen, played by Anthony Bushell with his special brand of ice-cold menace, and on the other side the only too human vulnerable figure of Dr. Roney. Here the Canadian actor Cec Linder put in a memorably warm performance.
These three were to typify human variants, afflicted to different degrees by the alien tampering and driven by the implanted instincts into displays of superstitious fear and racial rigidity when the capsule in the pit warmed up.
The excavation became the main element of the story. To simulate it for the pre-filmed sequences, tons of mud were spilled into the BBC’s newly acquired studios at Ealing. The designer, Clifford Hatts, made it appear to get deeper and deeper by the simple device of raising its sides, so that a contractor’s hut first seen at ground level finished up thirty feet above the bottom of the hole.
The Kine-and-Wilkie special effects team, now rich with experience, turned in brilliantly effective devices. People still talk about their poltergeisted coffee-stall, the ground that moved beneath a man’s body, the space ship that became organically alive. They made excellent Martian monsters, too, both dead and alive.
All the technically risky sequences were gathered safely on film by Cartier with the flair that had stayed with him since his UFA days. But he never ceased to push his luck, making heads shake in the luxury of the Riverside Studios, newly converted to TV, when the show came to be transmitted there. It was still largely live, and that was where the rest of the characters came in: the woman who read tea-leaves, the cop with the frightened childhood memories, the clubmen and the pensioners and the rubbernecks and the rest.
It was a time when some delicate theories where being framed about the intimate medium and the small screen and the need for social commitment. I suspect we broke most of those rules before they had a chance to harden, with what amounted in TV terms to a cast of thousands. The audience wanted, needed, enjoyed its imagination being alarmed. Soon came all those accounts of council meetings being abandoned and pubs being emptied on Quatermass night.
No, we weren’t committed. But we had some style. We were pretty good.
——
I think “we had some style” is definitely underselling this. 😉1 March 2014 at 21:34 #25977Top quality @craig. I’ve put a link on the home page, but I’m not convinced by the pic. We even have a “RTD retrospective” Page (even though it is a little empty at the moment 🙂 )
1 March 2014 at 20:20 #25966Well, the first thread for the RTD retrospective is up. You can find a forum to discuss “Rose” here.
In the past we’ve featured pre-existing internet video in these (for review purposes) for a limited period, but on this occasion I couldn’t locate one in English. The range of voice stand-ins for Rose and the Doctor is truly mind-blowing though, should you be adept at languages and do a casual internet search. There is a link to itunes if you don’t have the DVDs but are willing to venture £1.89 on the episode.
1 March 2014 at 19:24 #25951Good to hear you are OK, but commiserations to the extended family. I was about to say “wouldn’t it be funny if yours was one of the contaminated sites I’d visited!”. Then I thought “No it wouldn’t – they were disaster zones”. Glad to hear yours didn’t go pear-shaped.
1 March 2014 at 15:12 #25937Thanks – I think Varos was always the choice for Six, and Curse of Fenric was the way out favourite for Seven. The ones where there was less of a consensus were stories for three, four and five. We can finalise those later though.
1 March 2014 at 13:24 #25929Thanks for the link. Looking at the schedule, you have Rose down for starting today, so I’ll put it up later if @craig s out for a while. Let’s see how it plays out and whether we go for a part 1 option or continue up to the new series starts.
On BG who we’ll aim to start next week after the end of Quatermass. Are we going in Doctor order 1 – 8 (if we can sort something audio out for him) or do we want any old order? Any feedback welcomed.
1 March 2014 at 12:45 #25921Just out of interest has there been an official confirmation that the Character Options deal has been terminated? I thought that the position was that it was still in negotiation, which was why Lego were considering the options?
The main problem I can see straight away with your image is the Daleks. Final approval for use of the Daleks is by the Nation Estate who are funny about representations, even when money is involved. I think that may be a problem with Doctor Who for Lego – it’s a number of properties and approvals rather than one cohesive property they can option.
1 March 2014 at 12:34 #25920@everyone
While I’m one of the least sensitive people to being “on or off topic” I can’t help but feel that extended dialogue on the merits of one or more Doctors would probably be better on the Faces of the Doctor strand. Mainly because a while ago long posts On the Sofa became the source of some consternation. General consensus seemed that this was a place for light-hearted banter, introductions and general happy thoughts. We wouldn’t want someone new being afraid to leap into an in depth discussion.
So while a spirited defence of the Sixth Doctor would be welcome, and I’d be happy to engage with anyone who finds fault with my thoughts – take it over there please.
I’ve edited the header of that forum to remove the references to a month by month analysis because that time is past.
1 March 2014 at 11:45 #25916Hi – I’m sure I heard you bouncing all the way up here. 😉
I still haven’t caught up on a lot of threads for the past 5 weeks, so I may have missed the RTD part 1 discussion. Is it On the Sofa? No objections to it. It won’t really cover much 11 obviously, but it would take in a lot of episodes we haven’t discussed in depth so far, which is a bonus.
As to the BG Who I had The Time Meddler, and Mind Robber as favourites for one and two, but I don’t know if any other thoughts have come up on BG rewatches. If you can remember any, I’d be obliged if you could summarise. We can start them any time people want. We can leave it till next week after Quatermass, or we could launch them concurrently today if required.
Happily, I can report I’m not going anywhere for a good while now. I’ve told people no significant travelling. I need a chance to recover from a lingering chest infection from January that wasn’t helped by five weeks in damp conditions. So after I’ve caught up on reports my input will be a lot more reliable.
28 February 2014 at 15:50 #25870A new TV show to avoid: Intelligence.
I was recommended it by a friend, and can’t help but feel she was being mischievous, as the only alternative explanation can be that she has had most of her brain removed in some sort of freak accident. I’ve watched about three episodes of it with increasing incredulity.

It’s a shlocky action fest which sees Sawyer from Lost (Josh Holloway) have a chip implanted into his brain by Doctor Phlox from Star Trek Enterprise (John Billingsley). He works for a secretive Government Agency and he can access every bit of information on everyone. He fights for truth, puppies, freedom, etc. against people who want to “destroy our way of life” (honestly – Sawyer actually says this at one point, although I’ll give him points for looking fairly stunned as he says it, with gritted teeth).
The biggest problem I have with it is that I believe it is in danger of turning me into a conspiracy freak – something I believe I have successfully resisted for much of my life. Because I can’t help feeling this abortion was dreamed up by a committee of concerned parties in an emergency session of the CIA and NSA:
Boss: “We’re getting a lot of heat over our surveillance and data gathering…what can we do?”
Underling 1: “It doesn’t help that the media is producing shows saying that surveillance is a bad thing and something to be feared. We need balance. We need a show that tells it like it is to honest god-fearing American folk that only people with something to hide have anthing to fear. We’re the good guys!”
Underling 2: “Hell yeah! We could write it!”
Underling 3: “Do we have anyone who understands character and drama?”
Boss: “No we don’t. We’d better aim for network TV.”The underlying philosophy is “Oh, we will get into trouble if anyone finds out we’re doing this terrible thing. But it’s keeping us safe from some horrible people, and look, Sawyer has just taken his shirt off. And saved some puppies. Isn’t he a role model for super-snoopers everywhere?”.
Intelligence – It’s an insult to the audiences.
28 February 2014 at 15:33 #25869Congratulations on the spot @jimthefish. I must admit I didn’t even notice he was the TV cameraman. Foiled again by @bluesqueakpip.
28 February 2014 at 12:34 #25859Loads of good stuff in this penultimate episode. I’m not sure if the “Wild Hunt” scenes would have been more effective if longer @bluesqueakpip. I think at this point they make a virtue out of the technical limitations they had. The images are disjointed, somewhat confused and for that reason, quite unsettling as @jimthefish said.
Quatermass notes that this purging based on genetics is observed on earth in termites and other insects. Kneale doesn’t say “remember the Nazis” but enabling the rather thin cover story to play out with Breen, we’re reminded how dastardly they were. In conjunction with mentions of the race riots in episode 1, is this an inherited trait?
A fantastic cliff hanger here with the hull seeming to become translucent to reveal something waking up, pulsing with the drum in the soundtrack becoming a rhythmic beating. As Victor once said – “It’s Alive!”.
Now I’m really looking forward to the final episode tomorrow. And I’ve seen this too many times to mention.
I think the actor you’re referring to may be Edward Burnham, who played scientists in Invasion (Watkins) and Robot (Kettlewell). Weirdly, I had two “isn’t that….” moments about him over Christmas watching The Abominable Dr. Phibes and an episode of Black Books (the one where Tamsin Grieg is learning to play the piano).
28 February 2014 at 11:42 #25858Are you worried about an etiquette faux pas? Worry not. It would seem Smith likes a bit of variety in cosplayers, and had been known to organise impromptu photo shoots at SDCC, like this one with KG in 2011.

The big question is whether your ten look beats the bloke in this picture. That’s bloody scary.
28 February 2014 at 11:38 #2585727 February 2014 at 14:34 #25824Actually I can’t take credit for this one (but I was in favour). Looking at my notes it was suggested we cover Quatermass by @tardisblue and @bluesqueakpip initially, so I hope this mention will bring the series to @tardisblue s attention.
27 February 2014 at 14:31 #25823That was an excellent summary of the special effects techniques by @bluesqueakpip, and aren’t they effective? The rippling ground effect in particular is very unsettling.
Absolute belter – even viewing it from a 21st century perspective where the ideas of sentient/organic spacecraft and human genetic manipulation by aliens are well established.
I think that’s an important part of the charm for me in looking at older sci-fi, where you recognise something that is taken for granted these days being introduced into the public perception – the ideas creeping in, perhaps without the recognisable terminology we take for granted. Potter is speculating that perhaps the hull did the “thinking”. These days we’d just say that the ship housed an AI. Quatermass postulates the insects had access to “Biological techniques”. It was only a decade since DNA had been advanced as the “Transforming Principle” for hereditary and in the same decade the Double Helix was postulated, He uses terms like selective breeding, the idea of deliberate and direct genetic engineering at a molecular level being perhaps a little fanciful for him. Interesting to note that the other great populiser of genetic alteration, Day of the Triffids, was written at the start of this decade in 1951.
The vision of these Martians having three legs was a deliberate production nod to the most famous representation of Martians at the time – the Tripod war machines in “War of the worlds”.
I agree Potters concern for Breen is important. He’s out of sorts and frankly, clutching at straws with his German conspiracy. The papers sensationalising and the Government Minister spinning a story he can believe. Or perhaps a story that he thinks “the public” will accept. My – how times change. 🙂
27 February 2014 at 14:19 #25822These are really comments on Episodes 2 and 3, because I’m catching up and others including @bluesqueakpip are covering other points so well. I’d wholeheartedly agree with the comment on Episodes 2 blog about this being very effective horror. Stephen King, also agreed, co-opting elements in his novel The Tommyknockers. Eps 2 and 3 really do a lot to advance a sense of creeping unease about the object and the area they are working in as @whisht observes.
Particularly effective at the time I would think is the exchange with the Policeman in Episode 2. A (presumably) level headed man-of-the-law who is really not comfortable talking or being in the house that terrified him as a child. It’s Dixon of Dock Green getting the heeby-jeebies!
I think this is why I prefer the serial to the film. Each serve their own purposes but the serial is far superior at cranking up the tension as we come to understand that this object has had a long term impact.
The end reveals another key plus for me – the creature design. I absolutely love it compared to the film version, which disappointed me by being a bit..well, bland. Differences below (to be honest, the colour palette of the film did nothing for the design.)
27 February 2014 at 14:04 #25819Belated Birthday wishes from me as well. I caught the end of the first Austin Powers film in a hotel a few days ago, and it made me resolve to look up something I hadn’t listened to for a while when I came back, so here it is.
I find it pretty funny and also well put together, mixing the Ting-Tings “That’s not my name” with the Austin Powers theme. Odd, but strangely breathtaking. Also a bit party-ish (for a given amount of “ish”).
23 February 2014 at 12:59 #25696Cheers! Have you settled fully back into the rhythm of being back in Scotland? I think things were a bit chaotic last time I was around.
Yes, I’d like to apologise to Sontarans everywhere for that comparison. It’s really below the belt.
23 February 2014 at 12:48 #25695Great call to cover this. I’ve written before that I grew up with tales of Quatermass and its impact from my Father. It was officially a “big thing” in the village he lived in. Miners who had TVs swapped shifts to watch it. One of the village pubs got sick of the empty night and bought a TV for the saloon bar (can you imagine a group of drinkers huddled over one of those very small screens of the time?). There are minutes of Local Council meetings where the meeting was adjourned because everyone wanted to get back to watching it. Watercooler TV before the expression ever existed.
I saw the film first, but this is the version I prefer. It uses its extra time well, even though as @bluesqueakpip writes, some elements had to cope with the practicalities of filming in those days. I’m watching the DVD, and it has been cleaned up a treat.
Andre Morrel, in bow tie, as Quatermass is surely one of those characters who is in the DNA of what the Doctor has become. Affable but a little reserved, with an aspirational morality that draws you to him. He’s also not above using his position and playing “the game”, such as his intervention here to get the Colonel involved with the bomb party for his own purposes. Viewers of An Adventure in Space and Time will have seen Sydney Newman waving a report on Science Fiction at the BBC around in the earliest scenes. You can read it here, Quatermass and another series which came later, A for Andromeda, are referenced in a discussion that would lead to Doctor Who.
Interesting exchange on the Teddy Boy and Girl between @jimthefish and @blenkinsopthebrave. I’ve seen plenty of really toe curling “Vox Pops” over the years as the man in the street demonstrates a sty full of pig ignorance on important matters of the day. I actually find it quite satirical in its way. They’re here for a bit of novelty because it’s in the papers rather than any real underlying interest. You get the same reaction today. What’s more remarkable is the thought that a scientific story like that would be front page news!
Good spot on Hob @whisht. I’ve got a feeling that that’s a name that’s dropping out of the collective vocab gradually.
As @monochromedimension is wearing the face of the Seventh Doctor at the moment its worth pointing out that Doctor Who has referenced the British Rocket Group before, most notably in Remembrance of the Daleks in which someone asks where “Bernard” (Quatermass) is. The British Rocket Group had it’s own problems at the time, we were told.
23 February 2014 at 10:57 #25692Many thanks for the welcome back. I’m just realising how much activity on the site I’ve got to catch up on. It’s quite disconcerting to have a five week black hole in my personal memory bank of what’s being discussed.
I’m currently trying to subdue my workgear (which has achieved a state of malevolent sentience) to get it into the washing machine. I fully intend to relax later and catch up on the Quatermass showing. A great serial to cover. I’ll probably be caught up by the time we reach the end episode. 😀
I may have to have a bit of a rant about a couple of aspects of the flood issue at some point to get it of my chest. I’ll wait and put it on the Rose and Crown after this latest tranche of work finishes later this week, as it concerns everyone’s “favourite” sontaran look-alike, Eric Pickles.
22 February 2014 at 10:32 #25640Morning all. Apologies for the absence, and to those who posted mentions I’ve missed. I’ll get round to them eventually I’m sure.
I’ve spent the missing period checking on flood damaged industrial sites and looking at long term pollution potential from the flooding in the SW. All a bit depressing and fraught to be honest.
Hope nobody got caught out by it, and especially thoughts to @rob who I think may live near one of the areas of impact.
12 January 2014 at 15:28 #24236@fiveroundsrapid @monochromedimension
Thanks for the additional suggestions. I hope @monochromedimension was being mischievous with Trial of a TimeLord. Over 3 months of THE Colin Baker week-by-week would possibly be considered an endurance test by some, including me. 😉
If anyone wants to add to the sum of human knowledge on favourite Doctors, etc, there is the Faces of the Doctor thread for thoughts on them.
Now – off to get a Lemsip to try to ease the raging cold I seem to have picked up.
12 January 2014 at 15:13 #24234Thanks for the link. I just thought I’d mention that BBC4 are showing a Timeshift Documentary tonight at 10pm (just after the third episode finishes) looking at depictions of Holmes from Silent Movies onwards which could be interesting.
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