[lisa @replies]

Well that was an amazingly strong story for me!! I want the Doctor to be my president- lets get him
on the ballot !

So a few thoughts – not too many as this definitely needs to be seen over but
Missy- she really does love the Doctor in her psychotically insane way – still really need to know
how he/she escaped from Galifrey ? Did the other Timelords have something to do with that possibly
striking some bargain ? At the end maybe those co-ordinate numbers do mean something but what
I have a hunch she wanted to team up with the Doctor for Galifrey
So more of the lying liars – not much surprise about that
The Cyberman touching his face in the mortuary and Danny/Cyberman cool and creepy -eewww !
Also a rogue Cybermen like the rogue Dalek and rogue [maybe] Master/Missy ?
I felt bad about Osgood -[DocTOms scarf and then DocMatts bowtie] but really good about Kate
There was lots of wow in this and also plenty of possibility for bonkerizing too 🙂

[lisa @replies]

Getting very close to the second part now- I have thoroughly enjoyed this season thus far!
Someone mentioned up the thread that this season has been far more philosophical and ever
so slightly less about the monsters which I personally feel has been a positive evolution
— and there have been many excellent stories both the episodes and over all arc stories
The process of reading all of the theorizing on this fan site has been an immense part of
my relishing of this fantastic show -so thank you all for that and I’m glad I found you
I can’t wait to see all the comments tomorrow !

[lisa @replies]

@ Rob— love that interpretation !! I would have never guessed that a Cyberman would have such
a sense of sarcastic humor but it really works – (so remarks that mean the opposite of what is actually
said } so clever

[lisa @replies]

This is my idea of a great “Master” adventure !!!

[love this vid]

[lisa @replies]

@ All I really appreciate everyone’s kind attempts to argue the merits of religious belief
However I still remain convinced that it is a form of mind manipulation and it is messy and devisive
Although I understand still that many people find validation in it – I’m not saying it doesn’t
have historically some good art- advice etc. but It has also historically has been problematic and
promoted all sorts of bad situations
I also believe that atheists can be extremely and very seriously spiritual people!! Richard Dawkins said
“I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding’ that is how it
tries to remain relevant

[lisa @replies]

@bluesqueakpip So perhaps I should explain a bit further that I don’t feel that spirituality is in
any way a bad thing – however if you look at the issue of religion or how to believe [especially amongst the fundamentalist types in particular whether Christian – moslem – jewish whatever] – they have in common a kind of righteousness that refuses to recognize anything that’s different – and additionally I find that
religious people can be very arrogant in their believing – and finally I have always regarded
religion as just another ‘people control’ methodology -I don’t like the idea personally of being told what
I ‘should’ believe but maybe everyone “should” have the opportunity to evolve in either what they want to believe or if they want to believe anything at all and then maybe folks would find it easier to respect differences!
So I particularly appreciated that this series of Doctor Who treated belief in the way it did
A lot of the ideas about belief were thought provoking. I hope that in the future they continue to do more
of this because as this is a family program I hope that it will spark some ideas and investigation in young people about the subject of what belief/religion is

[lisa @replies]

@whisht I only wish to comment back about the religion aspect– to be honest I have found it extremely
refreshing to see how they have handled religion this series- as NOT sacred – as myths and legends
which is what religions are essentially – I think the way religious belief has been handled this season
has been effective and excellent!
I hope to see a lot more of this view everywhere in the future ! not just on TV ! IMHO it is all the
religious nonsense that has caused most of the troubles we see in our world now anyway so a little more
‘defiling’ is to be perfectly honest REALLY ok with me

[lisa @replies]

Re: Jenny the Doctor treats her like a daughter and the first episode he made it clear he’s not her
boyfriend – and finally he says to Clara he is exactly what she deserves – They deserve each other
meaning ? Don’t parents always believe their child is always deserving

[lisa @replies]

Why does one of the post it notes say Jenny-apologies if this was already mentioned but might that be the Doctors daughter Jenny from Doc 10 instead of Vastra’s Jenny?
Probably not but could Clara be a regeneration of that Jenny [possibly using the cameleon arch] ??
@scaryb Maybe that has been the “unseen presense” and maybe Jenny/Clara was the one doc 11 found
Maybe its why he loves her so unconditionally –in all his investigations of her he figured it out
and maybe that is what Clara figured out too
And folks — any thoughts about anything I ever put in any threads are always super welcome !!!

[lisa @replies]

On the bookcase where Clara has the post it notes there might be some other clues in the books
or pictures – I know that the owl on the bookcase is symbolic of the all seeing eye/architect
thru all of history according to the Mason’s mythology. it could also be the symbol of Clara’a
enlightenment which is also owl symbology and fire is also part of the mythology representing
illumination and in the mausoleum the sign that says rest in peace is in the shape of an obelisk
which is another Mason power symbol — in any case it just occurred to me that all this Mason
stuff I see in this episode is another reference to myth and legends in this series

[lisa @replies]

also meant to @devilirobby above- endless apologies !

[lisa @replies]

I just has a additional bit of a theory to tag onto my above post- So if Missy does decide to help
the Doctor it might be because she wants to steal the Tardis- maybe that was the ploy to use Clara ?
Part of what is going on with the post-its maybe is that Clara realizes some stuff about her
journey/existance and she is extracting the bits that all have very “impossible girl” implications
– so she is finally ready to share it all with Danny and is told he is dead
– that was why she has the meltdown with the Doctor – it might be a lot about Danny but also
a lot about what the post it notes revealed – @bluesqueakpip I totally agree the post it notes are
a ‘super’ clue re: Clara

@phaseshift – we all know it takes all kinds of people to make the world but the Doctor will
still love us just the same! 🙂

[lisa @replies]

@bluesqueakpip oops! point taken – didn’t think that thru properly lol

[lisa @replies]

Would really like to see a Timelord named Gandalf ! and give him a companion named Frodo

[lisa @replies]

I’m still thinking since Clara said time could be rewritten and that she never existed that we are having
another re-play of the Claricles
Also, if Missy is the Master then possibly the twist is that the Cyberman in the tank in Dr Changs office –
aka Dr Skarosa ? who had invented the Daleks but now has re-invented the new and improved Cybermen
that can fly like Daleks ? Might lead to a team up between Missy and the Doctor to save London and the
planet again ? but then what ? Well I still think we get more Missy next season….[.but I still like
to see some Romana or River or Psi or Padernoster Gang]

[lisa @replies]

2JimboMcMaster — I think you onto 2 brilliant notions both Romana having a contribution to the arc story
and also more minisodes to fill into the in-between bits of Who!! I loved the 8th Doctor minisode and the fact
that it borrowed from the 4th Doctor era – I’ve especially enjoyed all the references to past era Doctors
though out this past season. It inspired my Tom-Doc avatar of course 🙂

[lisa @replies]

In the trailer for Death in Heaven Clara says time can be rewritten and that she never existed so that
made me think she maybe has been cameleon arched ?
Also I am not entirely convinced that Missy is the Master -[yeah I know] but I have to admit that I’ve been
thinking its a mis-direction/lie….just saying

[lisa @replies]

@bluesqueakpip — exactly right about being on the Tardis can effect pregnancy! Orson??? Time traveling
grandparent?? there might be something there

[lisa @replies]

Does anyone think that maybe Seb is really the master and Missy is the companion ? except for the 2 hearts part which I haven’t worked out-
Remember when the Doctor says you are a mess of chemicals to Clara on the Tardis- well I just re-watched that part [again!] and I’m wondering if that might mean she’s pregnant ?
[totally off topic– I watched it Saturday. and yesterday and today and I seriously now know beyond any doubt that I need a heaping dose of Who-therapy cause I can’t stop!]

[lisa @replies]

@ Arbutus oops! – it isn’t the cathedral its a different Paul thing- [sorry super embarrassing]

[lisa @replies]

@arbutus you peaked my interest re: Xylo Jones- So Xylo means Forest in greek -in London at 53 King street
there is a company called Forrest and Jones -this is only 1 short block away from St Paul’s if you look on
google maps – the company makes custom wallpapers — perhaps the papers have been used on the Dr Who sets
although I didn’t see anything about that on the companies website or maybe the address has something to do
with these episodes – maybe neither of these – but it was fun to find all this

[lisa @replies]

How about this for a twist- Missy wants to help the Doctor rescue Galifrey using the Cyberman to
fight off the Daleks ? In which case that possibly means he/she captured Davros/Dr.Skarosa and has
him imprisoned inside a Cyberman ? Wouldn’t that be interesting ? [still working this 1 out]

Time to clear my mind for at least 20 minutes of this obsession — lol

[lisa @replies]

@IAmNotAFishIAmAFreeMan you mean he/she is a stalker !!! nnnnoooooo very kinky-winky lol

[lisa @replies]

Why did the Master choose that body/form ? I think SM chose the Master just to do the
boyfriend bit. She did refer to the Doctor as her boyfriend. I know that regeneration
is supposed to change personality however I totally see Simms in Missy !
I am very anxious to know if the Master and Davros are in ‘cahoots’ in part 2 and
I am convinced that the Matriz is completely tied into everything — but then I was
completely convinced that Missy was Romana -ugh!

[lisa @replies]

weird city but good for a giggle

[lisa @replies]

btw- this is something I came across in my travels amongst websites — so how does the Master even
know that the Doctor has survived and been given a new cycle ? I suppose this really chapped his
hide !! I guess he felt he needed to escape from the time locked bubble using the Matrix to get to the
Doctor for the purpose of …. ? Plus I guess he must of been royally psst off about sacrificing
himself to Rasilon to help the Doctor send them back into that timelock

[lisa @replies]

for Arbutus —http://forum.gateworld.net/threads/89318-Dark-Water-(3411-811)?p=14268913

[lisa @replies]

@arbutus — re: xylo jones — I am posting this to you on spoilers since Im not sure if this
is the appropriate place but its very interesting info !!!! great find !!!!

[lisa @replies]

So I looked here first thing when I woke up this morning {I’m in northern California} wondering
if any one else was thinking the Cyberman in Dr. Chang’s tank was Dr Skarosa aka [maybe] Davros ???
However- my prediction that Missy was Romana was totally wrong ! So probably not
On the other hand – I get the feeling that SM is attempting to mix it all up
The whole season seems to me about pulling bits and pieces from lots of past seasons/scenarios/myths etc.
Btw – does anyone know if the Dr Chang might have been a previous character name in past Who-dom???

I just also want to say that I am totally loving all the contributions on all the entire story/series here!!!
All of you are so brilliant !!! It has been a total treat to be on the this forum world with all of you delicious Who-sters !!

[lisa @replies]

I forgot to complete my thought on the post above lol !
Regarding Dr Skarosa being Davros- didn’t we think at the beginning of the season that we
heard the voice of a Dalek ? plus Davros also liked to do conversions between different ‘beings’

[lisa @replies]

I’m hoping that they will have more about Galifrey and the pocket universe in part 2- this is because I am having a hard time wrapping my head around how the Master/Missy is back again unless its all inside this Timelord Matrix – a bit like the Bells of St.John where they downloaded people
I think we will not get all the answers next time because Missy Gomez is doing such a great job that I believe she will be hanging around into the next series and SM will want to tease us with her story arc for sometime

Has anyone else thought that doctor Skarosa could be Davros ?

also- I’ve been wondering about how many regenerations the master has had- does anyone know? maybe that’s why he downloaded himself into the matrix- he might have run out of regenerations and the Timelords don’t want to give him a new cycle

[lisa @replies]

Does anyone still think Missy was the woman in the shop because I don’t –
Also- I am convinced that the Master is using the timelord matrix technology after re-watching
and to me this means that he might be portraying himself as a female dopple ganger – so why
choose that particular version ? I wonder if it could be cause he always had a ‘thing’ for
the Doctor ?? hm ?

[lisa @replies]

@bleninsopthebrave — I saw that reflection in the ipad too- Danny will want to speak to that boy!
Also -I agree with you that the nethersphere isn’t a real place- the clues about ipads and steve jobs-
the fact that this nethersphere looks like internet circuitry etc. but the people in it are told to
perceive it as their afterlife -even the dream patches are a clue about the perception of reality
Plus Timelord technology would definitely have that kind of sophistication

[lisa @replies]

It occurred to me that Missy is using the timelord matrix technology so how real can all of this really be.
It might be in all of their minds -I mean not exactly reality ? In which case Missy might be not the actual master but maybe a sort of doppleganger or maybe even like the master’s conscious mind in this matrix ?
Btw – if Missy was the woman in the shop wouldn’t Clara have recognized her?

[lisa @replies]

Doesn’t look like Danny will press the button cause you can see that young boy being reflected in the ipad
Danny will want to speak to him
I also think everyone is not dead at 3w ? Wondering like DrBen if Danny is really dead and for that matter that boy ??
Maybe they were all saved before their deaths and are just being told that they are dead ? But why save a
young boy – the implication of turning a child into a cyberman is a place that I would hope this show
would not want to go ??

[lisa @replies]

That was all super creepy !!! Missy Gomez is great but the Master again ??? Geesh !! I have to admit
that I’m really not entirely happy about this and I will have to be convinced about it being a good
thing. Maybe Missy Gomez can save this situation
But also if the Master can get out of the Galifrey trap then how is it the rest of these brilliant
Timelords are still stuck there ??? Right now I just don’t see how Rasilon et al could let the Master
have ”vacation days ‘

[lisa @replies]

Ok so peeking here and how is it possible that Missy is Master????? Didn’t she/he get taken back to galifrey with Rasilon ???? How is it that she/he isn’t still stuck there ??? Maybe once I see the episode it will work
out for me but right now I an not good with this !!

[lisa @replies]

Hello everyone ! my goodness you have all been so prolific with ideas since I’ve been away 🙂

Trying to catch up on all the postings and I am so very exited to see the episode tomorrow !!
So will we finally be getting a really good Missy-ing ?? Pleeassse !! lol Can hardly wait !

just wanted to say 2 more little things
— I think that sometimes people are taking medications not for themselves as much as for
the relief of the people who are the caregivers which imo seems just so inappropriate and maybe
the Doctor is thinking something like that too
— at the very beginning of the episode the Doctor says something about when he turns on the
terrestrial navigation it turns off other functions and I cant put my finger on why exactly
but it seemed to me an odd thing to point out and its been bugging me – wondering if there is
anyone else having any such thoughts in regards to that ? { I don’t recall seeing anything in the
thread but I could have possibly missed something]
[completely off topic I just wanted to share I got a Doctor Who phone cover delivered while
away – very cool !]

[lisa @replies]

Could Missy be choosing Clara as a ‘reboot Miss Hartigan”  ?? [cybermen plus another “miss’  etc. ]

The Doctors sweater had sparkly bits on it like the Sparkly bits that Maebe saw which means —–> no idea

I liked the “earth/trees saving the planet concept

Maybe Missy’s surprise was that she expected to collect a lot of earth beings from when the sun burnt it up and she didn’t have that opportunity?

I still think Clara might be  1 of the claricles – ‘time can be re-written’ which is what the claricles do

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[lisa @replies]

@thommck   perhaps also Missy’s “my Clara”  is another my claricle??

Like the theory that Missy is following Clara thru her phone since the woman in the shop thing occurred  [except that Clara isn’t always on the phone ] but if she is following her and if River is still connected to her and Danny is following her and the Doctor is mentoring her then why ???    a companion being so critical —hm ?

 

 

 

 

[lisa @replies]

Just catching up and I have seen several comments regarding little tid bits of the Big Bang episode
I would have to see that one again because I cant properly recall it all
In fact- I don’t clearly recall what/who was behind the Pandorica – only that it all was taken from
Amy’s memories –
So are we concluding that there might be a potential connection between the Big Bang and Missy theories ???
I wonder- could that mean something like a ‘return’ of Missy ?? [or is that way too bunkering]
curiouser and curiouser lol

[lisa @replies]

@Barnable- your bonker about opposite dimension Missy is very cool ! that will give me something to think over today – I’m on this flight later and Doctor theorizing will keep me from being too bored ! 🙂

[lisa @replies]

I have a hunch that Missy is a previous companion of the Doctors- maybe from 1 of the audio stories or comics ??
To my mind that explains how she might still be inter-connected with the Tardis and could be watching Clara
Also it would explain how she might be able to refer to the Doctor as her boyfriend ?
Perhaps Seb also was a previous companion
Also came across the fact that there are different kinds of Cybermen – the wall behind Missy showed what
looks like cybermen iconography – I was just wondering if its possible that this Missy arc has its roots in previous Doctor adventures ?

[lisa @replies]

@purofilion – my niece has Crohns and I have 2 friends with Ibs- which is a bit similar- It seems to me that
in recent times there has been a surge in these conditions -all the immune system sensitive conditions- including I think autism and all of that stuff too! I find all this extremely troubling !! I worry that we are messing ourselves up with the way we treat the environment and the food we are eating etc. I was a special education teacher for 8 years and all the parents attributed a lot of the problems that the kids were suffering from not from just pure genetics but also the foods we eat the air we breath all filled with toxins! I know you are being careful with your diet cause I know how painful Crohns can get ! hope you are feeling better now !

[lisa @replies]

@blenkinsopthebrave – I think the first big lie Clara ever told was in DotDoctor when she told us her story was done
I always found it amazing that 1 of the claricles was a “Galifreyan” who told the first Doctor which Tardis to steal -was she there in training to be a TimeLady ?
She is a souffle girl [which is a complicated recipe] The doctor investigated her and realized she has had as many lives as any Timelord and that She IS something new
There might possibly be a DNA connection and that might have been the reason for the Doctor rescuing Clara from his Time stream? Going into the time stream might have changed her [similar to the way River was conceived]
In any case he definitely feels Clara has a special destiny because of her special past
If Missy has been tracking Clara all along she knows about the claricles too
When Missy says ‘my Clara’ it sounds to me a bit like a Dominatrix planning who knows what – but like the Doctor she sees Clara as something special

[lisa @replies]

@phileasf – liked your idea that Missy was watching Clara from the same hacking device as the Doctor but then what can that tell us?

Someone made the observation that Missy refers to “my Clara and my Boyfriend” {sorry cant find it again}

The writer likes to use trains in his episodes

There have been a lot of ‘conversions” from one thing to another this season

@gothamcelt – Yes! Alice and Red Riding Hood – more myths etc.

Clara it seems is really beginning to “believe” in herself as a possible Clara-Doctor

[lisa @replies]

@Barnable- last fall there was a story going around that Banksy was in New York City driving around in this big truck with these different art “installations” in them – he was also doing wall art around town – don’t know if it was just some story or for real but the guy in the truck said he was the artist!?

[lisa @replies]

If she is the lady in the shop that means she can get out of the Nethersphere- If she has been watching Clara since then on her ipad [lol-really?] then how is she able to do that- and finally why is the Doctor trying to train Clara to be more like him?
Totally loving all the Mystery- this season is full of that genre !
It adds a lot of depth to the whole series for me
So far these last two episodes have been the best ones for me
If SM wants to retire this Mathieson dude might be very able to do a pretty decent job of it

[lisa @replies]

Tried zooming in on the window behind Missy on her left and it looks like there are markings in the little circle sort of similar to Galifreyan markings and that to me means Time Lady ! Maybe also a Cyberman controller like Miss Hartigan was ?

would it be too spoilery to say we get a new clue next episode cause I checked and Missy is in the cast–

[lisa @replies]

Adams family much on the train tracks with the Doctor’s hand !! loved the “homage” to Thing !!
The scene with Missy- there was a symbol behind her on the wall/door- a great big circle and little tiny circle attached to the left bottom and I wonder is that is a clue – like maybe a Galifreyan thing or maybe like a cyberman eye- – it didn’t really look very much like the inside of the Tardis to me like someone else mentioned in the thread – does that symbol ring any bells for anyone ? There was something reflected in the big window to the left behind Missy but it was so very fuzzy
Also the Clara my Clara line is something the Doctor said when he was still the 11th
Well more later

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