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17 May 2017 at 23:11 #57604
@hillforest I like it. I keep thinking that the very careful explanation and example of a bootstrap paradox in Under the Lake/Before the Flood is of wider significance.
Oh, and I rather enjoyed Oxygen. It was rather more tense than usual as I had a feeling the blindness might not be magically fixed at the end. There are consequences, he was reckless and while he is less breakable than us he’s not unbreakable.
8 May 2017 at 14:47 #57264Alan Moore is in the vault.
@wisht I would love this. Now I’m going to be so disappointed with whoever actually is in there.
7 May 2017 at 12:30 #57211as for how did they survive? perhaps being absorbed into the wood is just the first stage, and victims are held for a short while, before the inevitable “digestion?”
I initially rolled my eyes at the most recent lot being brought back, but I recently read a book called ‘Uprooted’ by Naomi Novik which had people being absorbed by trees, and they could be saved if you got them out quickly enough.
Didn’t the landlord say something to the Doctor along the lines of ‘you’re old, you have less energy so you won’t last long’, the implication being it wasn’t an instant death.
1 May 2017 at 16:27 #56994Iirc, there is no way different regions could show a different version. How curious though.
I’ve checked my recording, definitely Bill.
30 April 2017 at 23:25 #56956@mersey Bill wasn’t completely unaffected though, difference being that the child was a child, the guy with a tattoo was a thug who was going to let her and the Doctor die and a lot more people were going to die if they didn’t do something.
@nick Castrovalva for me, I was four and a half. Anything before that I don’t remember any stories just the Doctor and his scarf. I suspect I am over-thinking it – for my parents it was let me watch it or don’t. There was no watching it first to check it was ok, no dvds, no streaming.
It was Snakedance that gave me nightmares, pretty sure it’s not done me any long-term harm either.
30 April 2017 at 21:23 #56950Poor Adric, you know I completely forgot about his existence. In my defence I was very young. Tegan and Ace were my favourites BG.
AG I think Donna was excellent, and I was dubious as I’ve never been a fan of Catherine Tate. I actually stopped watching for a bit, but caught up again and found I’d been wrong!
Bill, so far, is great. From the trailer I was worried she was going to be a bit CBeebies, but she isn’t at all.
30 April 2017 at 20:55 #56949@mudlark The accents weren’t confused, it was the disagreement over ‘book’ and ‘buck’. My husbands pronunciation is clearly confused.
I have no ear for accents anyway, unless they’re very strong.
@bluesqueakpip there is absolutely nothing wrong with a fez! Though mine is nicer than the one the Doctor had and I don’t wear it outside or anything it is definitely cool.
But yes, on Gallifrey a cameo brooch might be a perfectly acceptable present for a man.
As for the vault, I’m trying to decide if it’s something we’ve seen/heard of before or not.
@nick my four year old is showing an interest in Doctor Who but I’m struggling to find an episode to let him watch. It would be a bit easier if he hadn’t decided he really liked the ‘pretty lady’ – Clara.
Of course I was watching it from when I was three.
30 April 2017 at 15:22 #56930Different accents are a marvellous thing. My husband and I had so many enthusiastic discussions on whether ‘book’ and ‘buck’ (or ‘look’ and ‘luck’) are pronounced the same or differently that he mentioned it in his speech when we got married. He’s from round Lincolnshire, I’m Welsh.
For the record they do not sound the same and it’s ridiculous to claim they do 😀
I do drive him nuts with saying I’ll do things ‘now’. Which to me means in a bit.
30 April 2017 at 10:45 #56918@thane15 Thanks for the welcome back. Had a bit of a difficult year last year healthwise, and of course no Doctor Who.
Liking this series so far, and like Bill a lot more than I thought I would. Still love Capaldi as the Doctor and don’t want him to go!
Horrified at some comments on the Guardian blog – I mean the BBC should be impartial about racism?
29 April 2017 at 23:33 #56880The close parallel between the scene where the Doctor and Bill are tied up and trying to retrieve the sonic screwdriver and the scene in Deep Breath. where he and Clara were in a very similar situation.
Yes, I liked that. And giving Bill the choice like with Clara in “Kill the Moon”.
eta – Also liked the conversation when Bill is upset after the child dies and comparing it with the conversation with Clara at the end of “Mummy on the Orient Express”
16 December 2015 at 17:05 #49461I have in no way caught up with all these posts – got too much going on! -, but have rewatched Heaven Sent and Hell Bent – the latter on my tv instead of my tablet, yay!
Further things that have sprung to mind in the meantime/more thoughts I’ve had…
I like the way last year had Clara betraying the Doctor over Danny’s death while this year had the Doctor betraying himself over Clara’s death. Right down to the ‘I am owed’/’The universe owes me’ lines.
Also last year started with the Doctor begging Clara to just see him and this year ended with him not seeing Clara.
Wondering if all the seeming hints that the Doctor knew something was going to happen to Clara is connected to the dreamcrabs where he saw her as an old woman – possibly a sharp reminder of her mortality and also put the thought in there that if she carried on traveling with him she was unlikely to make it to a ripe old age?
I liked how quickly Rassilon and the high council were dealt with, reading opinions in various places, I know some aren’t.
I don’t think the Doctor recognised Clara, but I wonder if he didn’t have that little niggling feeling you get when you can’t remember something but feel that you almost can.
Still want to know what Missey did to the confession dial. I wonder if we’ll ever find out.
@thebrainofmoffat I scrolled up to see what was on this page at least and this caught my eye –
we just know that they do return. But why would they return? Of their own volition, or what? Does the reason matter? YES! Because without these concerns being addressed, it turns into the mother of all get-out-of-jail-free plot devices.
I thought if Clara didn’t go back the whole universe could end (or at least have major damage caused to it), and she knows that, so will go back after as many detours as she wants to make – or possibly, if it’s anything like the Doctor’s, until her Tardis decides Gallifrey is where she needs to be.
8 December 2015 at 00:03 #49024@thebrainofmoffat or 4th possibility, Clara’s Tardis takes her back to Gallifray at a time it decides is appropriate for her to face the Raven.
7 December 2015 at 22:09 #49016If I were going to guess, I’d say that Moffat was poking a bit with the half-human reference.
@arbutus oh yes, but it just reminded me of Osgood and her insistence that it didn’t matter if she was human or Zygon, she was just Osgood.
I do think he should not have made an enemy of Rassilon.
@catladymeow Apart from any horrors he was responsible for in the time war, Rassilon was responsible for driving the Doctor’s childhood best friend mad and his actions led to Clara’s death. I don’t think any other outcome was possible.
6 December 2015 at 21:00 #48865@stara I think this quote:
At the end of everything, one must expect the company of immortals.
covers how the Sisterhood were there.
6 December 2015 at 12:13 #48809Well. Best finale ever? Maybe.
Thoughts…
I still think Missy contacted Ashildr/Me at some point, though that’s been left open to interpretation.
Have we just been ‘Osgooded’ over if the Doctor is half human or not?
Will need to watch again but did the Doctor imply he’d always known he was in the Confession Dial?
Can Clara still be Orson’s great grandmother? That’s a bit Fahrenheit! (Video game, also known as Indigo Prophecy. Main character dies, gets brought back by magic, impregnates woman despite not breathing etc. Good game, though it takes a weird turn. eta – just to be clear the weirdness isn’t the dead person getting someone pregnant.)
Tardis stuck as a diner – seems very Douglas Adams. But then every time a perception filter is mentioned or other ways of hiding things in plain sight, I automatically think “Somebody Else’s Problem field.”
I absolutely love Peter Capaldi. No doubt about it, he is my favourite Doctor and, IMHO, this has been the best series of AG Who.
And *eek* old style Tardis interior. Loved it.
2 December 2015 at 17:50 #48530And he’s lying when he says it’s him, isn’t he? He couldn’t lie when he was in the confession dial, but he can now he’s out. Is he trying to protect the hybrid and/or Gallifray?
2 December 2015 at 17:26 #48529@mudlark could be one of those running away from destiny causes it to happen things? And he did recognise Ashildr.
Not that I’m convinced it is Ashildr, I think Clara is still more likely – though I’m not convinced of that either.
2 December 2015 at 15:23 #48520Having rewatched without the drawback of being on large amounts of painkillers, I have to say it’s been upgraded to magnificent and I now get the missing flagstone and where it went – which should have been obvious, but I wasn’t at my best on Saturday.
@jphamlore like the ideas about the dial
1 December 2015 at 20:39 #48457Not read through all the posts, not been very well, but that was rather marvellous!
I’m hoping the watching it chronologically from Clara’s point of view rather than the Doctor’s theory is true and that we just saw the creation of the Confession Dial.
Definitely need to watch it again when I’m less dazed – what was the missing octagonal flagstone with arrows pointing at the gap all about? The rest made sense, but that confused me.
25 November 2015 at 16:24 #47835@pedant I get that, but in the stuff that happens off screen that we just see the tail end of in her bubbliness and enthusiasm and ‘isn’t this all such a laugh’, she seems different to how she generally is in the adventures we do see her in.
25 November 2015 at 14:48 #47832Clara is all about “things being blown up and adventures’ could this be yet another reference to her recklessness and perhaps suggests this episode
@puroandson I don’t think we actually see her being reckless that often – most of her reckless behaviour seems to occur in off-screen adventures.
23 November 2015 at 21:33 #47666Is it just me, or does anyone else feel there’s bits of story missing? Clara’s recklessness seems mainly to have been in adventures we didn’t see – I don’t remember her being particularly reckless in Under the Lake, Before the Flood, The Zygon Invasion/Inversion or Sleep No More. She wasn’t really in The Woman Who Lived.
She was a bit in The Girl Who Died – if she’d done as she was told the Mire wouldn’t have captured her. Obviously she was being particularly reckless in Face the Raven.
Magicians Apprentice and Witches Familiar, well she did just do everything Missy told her to which seems rather reckless but her choices were rather limited at that point.
Just wondered if anyone else felt the same?
23 November 2015 at 17:11 #47632Have searched the site for mentions of Edgar Allen Poe and only found a post by <span class=”useratname”>@cybercat</span>
Lenore appears to be a variant of Eleanor, but a quick Google isn’t that helpful on meaning, although there may be a connection with ‘light’. Just wondering if anyone knows?
23 November 2015 at 14:57 #47624and the only ones who know about a confession dial.
@jphamlore Davros also knows about the confession dial and expressed interest as to what the confession was.
23 November 2015 at 14:41 #47622I imagine he’ll be blaming himself for her demise given that he allowed her too much rope.
@lisa maybe more than that. His couple of little chats with Clara about her needing a new hobby are somewhat similar to his telling O’Donnell to stay on the Tardis when he suspected her to be next to die in Before the Flood where he was accused of not trying hard enough. Did he try hard enough to stop Clara? Though it could be argued Clara wouldn’t be persuaded, he could have ultimately not given her a choice.
22 November 2015 at 16:54 #47522Just wondering how Me/Ashildr knew to be at the school and in the right place to show up in the background of a photo that would end up being shown to the Doctor?
21 November 2015 at 23:49 #47458I’m wondering what Missy’s clever idea was back in The Witches Familiar and if it has anything to do with who ‘they’ are.
Me may not have guessed what Clara would do, but Missy might.
16 November 2015 at 15:59 #47110On Robots of Sherwood, I must admit I don’t like it, but it’s mainly the end I don’t like and that has sort of coloured my view of the whole thing. I loved the fight with the spoon and the Doctor and Robin bickering was very funny.
Not sure about Sleep no More, need to watch it again. My initial impression was ‘meh’, but I wasn’t watching under the best circumstances (my toddler refused to go to sleep until nearly midnight and I then watched it on my tablet) so I may well revise my opinion after a second watch.
15 November 2015 at 16:57 #47002The computers insistence on the soldier singing the “Song” . Seemed like an obscure piece to add to the story.
Seemed a bit of a nod to GLaDOS from Portal to me. I almost expected the computer to offer him cake and a weighted storage cube. Then try to kill him.
15 November 2015 at 16:33 #47001@janetteb I also thought of Gaiman’s Sandman. Dream had a raven as well…
And Clara and getting trapped in a pod/enclosed space again. Cables described as snake like in the way they pulled her in as well.
12 November 2015 at 09:36 #46836@bluesqueakpip I mostly agree really. I was just thinking about it last night after rewatching Invasion/Inversion. It was late and though I did a quick search I couldn’t find the posts I’m sure I read.
Though maybe the Doctor is looking for a cure – maybe saving Ashildr wasn’t just because he felt responsible for her death, perhaps she was a bit of a guinea pig as well.
Definitely agree that it seems as if he knows her future.
11 November 2015 at 23:53 #46810Another thought on Clara, what if she never left the Dalek (I’m so sorry…) and is unaware she’s still in there? Could the Doctor have created a hard light hologram and linked it to her?
I’m sure this has been said already but can’t find it!
Holograms were used in Under the Lake/Before the Flood. In The Girl Who Died the plan involved hacking the Mires helmets and altering the visual feed. Now we’ve had Clara trapped and trying to influence a copy of herself.
11 November 2015 at 20:09 #46800And if it’s all something to do with knowledge or remembering (all the serpents and ravens etc), finding out all that would presumably not be good for you mentally, particularly as the Doctor wouldn’t save Danny. Imagine if you found out someone had broken all the rules to save you but had then refused to save someone you loved?
11 November 2015 at 19:54 #46799Crazy thought, but what if it were originally Clara that died instead of Danny and her going back just ‘corrects’ a change already made.
Danny would be free to be great granddad to Orson, and I don’t think the Doctor would just let the Nethersphere die if Clara were in there.
Thinking about it further, (and I am just throwing this in for fun) could the Doctor already have gone back and used the speculated on third Mire first aid kit (or something similar) on Clara? Could she already be immortal? The Doctor made it clear to Me why he wouldn’t travel with another immortal… It would also explain why he keeps telling Clara to get a new hobby.
Would also make Clara one hell of a hybrid – part Mire, part Dalek, part Zygon (psychologically at least?), plus who knows what jumping into the Doctors time stream did, so possibly part Time Lord as well.
10 November 2015 at 20:42 #46738I believe Missy chose Clara for her own scheme but might not be an actual part of the Claradox.
@lisa I’m inclined to agree – she chose the person who is perfect for the Doctor and if as I tend to think all the Clara’s are Claricles, that’s why she was perfect.
10 November 2015 at 17:49 #46729I like the theory, that I think I have by now read in multiple places, that the episodes at some point will not be in an order linear in time to when events occurred. Thus I think it is quite possible that Clara has died in the future but that the Doctor has gone back in time to when Clara was alive to enjoy some final moments with her.
@jphamlore It’s looking like that isn’t it.
I thought the way the Doctor walked away from Clara at the end was a bit odd.
@everyone who thinks there was no Clara prime or that it was a Claricle who came out of the Doctor’s timestream, I also think one or the other is very likely.
Maybe it’s not that Clara is already dead (Doctor didn’t act like someone who just had reunited with a person who was gone), maybe he finally figured it out who she is and he’s not really happy with the truth.
@mersey I still just keep thinking of The Magicians Apprentice when Clara says ‘which one of us in dying anyway?’ or words to that effect. Ok, so we all knew the Doctor wasn’t going to die, but I felt his reaction screamed out ‘you are!’
27 October 2015 at 08:16 #45649So now I’m thinking Ashildr isn’t Ellie but is teasing that she is possession of knowledge as it relates to Clara origin story and has the intention to do something to her.
@lisa I like it. I’m sure something about memory or knowledge of something is going on. Me’s journals with pages cut out made me think it even more.
26 October 2015 at 12:32 #45558And while lauding @kharis‘s excellent spot, I’m also a bit sceptical that she’s going to turn out to be Clara’s mother.
@jimthefish I agree, but would say the clothing looked out of place – I did spot that. And somebody over on the Guardian is very upset about the hats the highwaymen were wearing. Of course dressing a few decades out of fashion is a lot more easily explained if the clothes are from the past rather than the future.
I did keep hearing Missey saying ‘anachronism’ though while reading about the problems with hats and cocktails.
20 October 2015 at 17:21 #45210Shades of “Time Lord Victorious” in this episode, but with a wholly different feel. While Ten in “The Waters of Mars” was basically completely unhinged by the thought of letting history take its course in that particular instance, Twelve views his predicament as freeing in a way — as an old rebel, he is used to breaking the rules and getting away with it, so why pretend he doesn’t?
@drben another difference is that nobody was asking him to save Ashildr. The people in Waters of Mars asked the Doctor to save them, he insisted he couldn’t, then decided he could do what he wanted and did it anyway. Nobody begged him to bring back Ashildr.
19 October 2015 at 21:50 #45157Had he been too much the detached Time Lord, like in Pompeii? Needing Donna to remind him, again, that his job is also to save someone.
@bluesqueakpip In Pompeii everyone was going to die and he saved one family. Here he saved everybody except one person and then, presumably unwisely, saved her as well.
And now I’m thinking again of The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances and how pleased the Doctor was that “just this once everybody lives”. He got that here (ignoring the people who were ‘juiced’ as he didn’t have the opportunity to try to save them) as well but at what cost?
19 October 2015 at 17:41 #45138@221badwolf The Doctor seemed to recognise Ashildr in some way, maybe that’s why. Maybe it was, in a sense, ‘supposed’ to happen, perhaps part of some bigger loop we can’t see yet?
His reaction was rather Tenth Doctor ‘Waters of Mars’. ‘I can do whatever I want’. We had a bit of that last week as well with his ‘I don’t see anyone here who is going to stop me’, except the Tardis had other ideas.
19 October 2015 at 16:00 #45129@starla re “run, you clever boy, and remember”
I keep wondering about that phrase as well. Three stories now with serpents in, two with aliens taking the name of gods associated with ravens/crows. Apart from the associations with death there are also associations with knowledge and memory.
And sorry if this has already been said (I’m in work, skim reading), but didn’t the Doctor say something to Clara about running away but the memories always being there?
19 October 2015 at 12:04 #45119@221badwolf I thought translating baby might might involve some telepathy as well. It’s not really a language after all. Don’t know about when it’s not translated for aliens, maybe there are limits to what it can translate?
19 October 2015 at 11:23 #45118Waters of Mars seemed in play too
@countscarlioni glad you saw that too 🙂
The existence of technology that can grant near immortality with such a simple procedure as implanting a chip makes ZERO sense whatsoever, and some way needs to be found to expunge this from the Dr. Who universe.
@jphamlore what about the nanogenes in The Doctor Dances/The Empty Child? Ok, so they didn’t make anyone immortal, but presumably they have the potential to given that they could bring the dead back to life as the patch did.
14 October 2015 at 23:24 #44800If our current Clara had to see herself in that light — that’s a pretty precarious position, I’d say
@ichabod interesting. I’m wondering, as an alternative to serpents and ravens being about death, if they’re symbolising knowledge and memory. Will Clara remember or discover something about herself? Although even then the association with death could very well still be relevant, it just might not be a physical death. It also isn’t incompatible with Clara as Hanged Man part of the tarot theory.
Though in terms of tarot cards I’m getting a Tower feeling.
Also anyone know of links or parallels between Bran/The Fisher King and Odin? They were both wounded and it looks like they’ll both have had hostile aliens using their names this season.
14 October 2015 at 11:37 #44774@ichabod @janette yes, detachment is the right word. I was just amazed at the amount of people who did think he was callous, when to me he clearly wasn’t. I’ve sometimes thought I must be watching a different programme as some people’s description of the twelfth Doctor’s personality seems so at odds with how I find him!
14 October 2015 at 11:31 #44772@mudlark ahh, thank you. Not rude at all. I did see some of season one of GoT but was rather busy with a new baby at the time and couldn’t keep track of names or much else really!
14 October 2015 at 10:08 #44763@craig it was referenced by the tenth Doctor in The Christmas Invasion – though I can’t remember the details now. Must have been to do with the dressing gown.
And in Ghost Light now I come to think of it.
I do seem to have a soft spot for 80s BBC Sci fi as I must admit I loved the Hitchhikers tv series.
14 October 2015 at 09:57 #44761@ichabod hmm, looking at the whole though, yes, he is more alien, but even in Mummy I didn’t get the feeling of him seeming callous because that’s what he was, more that there was a puzzle to solve and solving it was the only way to stop people dying so you just have to get on with it. His conversation with Clara at the end showed it wasn’t a complete lack of caring.
14 October 2015 at 09:50 #44760@bendubz11 feel free, but as I’ve not read the books or seen much of Game of Thrones can I ask why?
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