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16 October 2018 at 01:36 #64541
Have binged it about 4 times now. It is simply outstanding, really rewards repeat viewing and the short-season format serves it well. Not a single filler.
Maximum Derek.
Inside No 9 is great – a sort short form Black Mirror.
16 October 2018 at 00:32 #64538I knew there was something else I’d noticed but took ages to find.
“Bonuses and snaketraps”
Snakes and Ladders.
In space.
15 October 2018 at 22:35 #64533@jimthefish @geoffers et al
Oh, and where the hell did those sunglasses come from?
From dialog just before Graham complains about getting sand in his eyes:
“Oh, I forgot I put stuff in these pockets”
And then, after given the shades to Graham
“Like and old pair of mine…I say mine; can’t remember…. etc etc”
So was directly addressed in dialogue and heavily implied that she stocked up in the charity shop with a few things she liked.
I wasn’t even listening out for that, but it jumped out at me in a “How the hell did I not notice that?” kinda way, so I checked the subtitles.
15 October 2018 at 19:02 #64524Bookmark your last post here and come back to it once you’ve read the first 50 pages or so of the book. Seriously. That’s an exercise you won’t regret.
But maybe not just now.
15 October 2018 at 18:57 #64523Oh, I never doubted that – but the idea that a blue doesn’t make sense (and for a young cop to say it, at that) made me chortle.
15 October 2018 at 03:01 #64497hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Tip for future reference: only quote the bit you want explaining 😉
PSA: Public Service Announcement.
Example: See above. Being precise is also important, and anecdotes are rarely precise.
(curious feature of discourse: it is easy for a discussion about something big to get derailed by the perspective of personal experience, which may be earnest and sincere or jaundiced and sarcastic. There are also those who exploit this, for example blathering on about weather (why is it so cold outside?) in a discussion about climate change (what the fuck are we going to do with all the refugees?).)
I highly recommend this book. The first 50 pages will totally freak you out about how much your brain lies to you. But in the context of this discussion and the way it started, it may be the most important book of the decade.
15 October 2018 at 00:32 #64495@ardaraith @miapatrick @mudlark @juniperfish
On rewatch Timeless Child definitely came over as much more significant than at first – telling her something she did not remember, and revelling in knowing a secret that it wouldn’t tell.
It occurs to me, with hindsight, that Chibbers is a much more likely candidate that Moffatt to take a crack at an origin story….
14 October 2018 at 23:32 #64490“only the one in town’s green. This don’t make any sense.”
That made me LOL. Twice now.
14 October 2018 at 23:25 #64487I don’t know if it was specifically that, but I have had a couple of ranty “how Doctor Who was betrayed buy the SJWs” things coming up on my recommended feed.
I may have had some fun….
14 October 2018 at 22:21 #64479Rosa Parks, eh?
That’ll have the Angry Virgins frothing.
14 October 2018 at 22:19 #64478There was indeed the mention of a a medipod (or similar) for Yaz, and Graham saw Ryan regaining consciousness in something along those lines.
Little bit puzzled by Matt Strevens comment that the new Tardis would be more analogue that before. All of the AG Tardises have been very much organic and/ or steampunk, about as far from digital as you can get and still be SF. Maybe he just doesn’t realise that the command modules of the Apollo missions didn’t have any digital tech on them, despite having 7 segment displays all over.
14 October 2018 at 20:11 #64460Commas are your friend.
Definitely heard Timeless Child, but took it to be a taunting of the Time Lord’s (…er….moving on…) base insecurity.
14 October 2018 at 19:48 #64457Enjoyed that.
Hints of an *whisper it* arc.
Some less-crisp-than-it-could-be-dialogue-editing more than offset by the redesign of old Sexy.
And two of my theories shot down in flames.
14 October 2018 at 18:16 #6445614 October 2018 at 18:12 #64455Excellent question.
It means that one needs to be very, very cautious of generalising from personal experience. That doesn’t in any way negate those experiences, but underlines that it is from a specific point of view in a specific set of circumstances. It is, in essence, storytelling. Now, nobody (least of all here!) is going to denigrate the importance of storytelling, but personal anecdote is subject to a lot of thinking errors.
The most common of these is confirmation bias (you are thinking of a tune, turn the radio on and that tune is playing and we think: “Whoa…freaky”. Not telepathy, confirmation bias because we give zero weight to the things that don’t happen, the 1000s of times we have turned the radio on and it wasn’t playing a tune we were thinking about).
So to count as evidence we need to eliminate these flaws as best we can.
We need, say:
- multiple examples,
- that are representative of the population and chosen at random
- in which the experimenter is blind to the selection
- And in the case where the sample is people, the people are also blind (so don’t know if they are getting the medicine or a placebo) – these two together is what is meant by double blind.
- where the sample is big enough to be meaningful
- and using methods that someone else can replicate (with their own sample) to see if they get the same results.
Even then there are still traps (there’s a thing call p-hacking where the experimenter keeps sampling until they get the result they expect (or want: 8 of to 10 cats prefer whiskas (in 1 test, ignoring the 50 where the cat just scoffed on whatever they were offered first)). Usually the dishonest ones are obvious (but not always) but the honest errors are far harder to spot.
But the tl;dr is one example tells us nothing of general applicability, no matter how compelling. Some time ago the poster formally known as puro told me that there is a Crohns severity scale on which the average is 22, and she is a 90. To which:
a) OUCH!
and
b) we cannot generalise from her experience because it is such an outlier;
c) that knowledge was gathered the methods outlined (VERY briefly) above. So we know immediately why she is a walking medical emergency, and also something of a miracle.
(See what I did there?)
14 October 2018 at 11:24 #64445@mudlark @cathannabel @craig @jimthefish
Thanks all – much appreciated.
No agony, but a lot to absorb (in a non-sugary way).
14 October 2018 at 11:17 #64444Ah, gotcha.
They’d usually be called the opening credits (terminology differs from the US, I believe, where the opening credits would be the bit AFTER the main titles, where the action has started and various writers, producers etc etc names would appear), or title sequence as @thane16 says.
Anyhoo, in one of the -ha-ha-we’ve-seen-it-you-haven’t reviews it was alluded that we would not see the new opening credits until Ep 2.
13 October 2018 at 11:47 #6442913 October 2018 at 11:41 #64428NI is nothing to do with funding the NHS. It is used to find the current state pension pot. The NHS is funded out of general taxation.
But anyway, when talking about free everybody knows it means free-at-the-point-of-delivery. Nobody is ever invoiced for having a medical emergency, even if it turns out to be a false alarm.
13 October 2018 at 01:05 #64413@all
OK, before the flurry of next-episode posts, could you have a watch of this vlog (I think that’s what they are called) about my diagnosis and, even better, pop over onto YouTube and give it a thumbs up? I’ll probably make a short series, so a ‘subscribe’ would be ace too (even though I’m not really doing it for the audience so much as to help me organise my thoughts and feelings).
As a special favour to viewers, I have deleted nearly all of the “Ums” and put than at the end for comedic effect. For some values of “comedic”. If you make it right to the end, there is a link to a SPECTACULAR sunset seen by my dashcam.
Original choon by @sirclockface (well, sort of original…more of a variation on a theme by The Archies).
13 October 2018 at 00:53 #64412Couple of passing thoughts on third (or possibly 4th, can’t remember) watch:
I thought the closing music more industrial (steel town) than military. The drums had a metalness to them, and fit in with the new mechanically-minded Doctor.
Also, I think the burst we got when JW stood up for the first time is from the opening theme (ie the closing theme is not The theme. Much heavier, and kind of awesome, if I’m right).
Definitely no hint as to what was happening the the red crystal in Ryan’s hand at the start (possible: dropped story line that they forgot to reshoot for)
Re the deaths: credit to Chibbers: with the possible exception of the train driver, he made sure none of them were redshirts (and even she was specifically not killed by the coil).
Working theory: The Tardis is not awol but is leading the Doctor somewhere she needs to be, by a route she needs to take.
Also, those who watched the trailer can see the much more obvious solution for how they get out of space than the Tardis protection field. And that’s as close to spoilerage as I am getting here!
Oh, and @juniperfish – you’re post-Freudian observation was all over twitter when the sonic was revealed, so no – not just you!
9 October 2018 at 18:35 #64360LindaLee has spoken…
9 October 2018 at 12:03 #64333“Every show a self-contained story” sounds to me like a return to 100% “monster of the week” and no need to bother staying for the end, because there’s no chance of failure, and everyone ends up exactly as they started so the next “self-contained story” can toddle on without any continuity with what came before.”
Literally don’t really get what you’re tying to say here; they ended floating in space., which is a very Classic Who callback. But it would be as well to remember that Chibnall is as capable of pulling the fans’ legs as Moffat. We have a grieving cancer survivor, a troubled teen with a disability and a probationary cop who feels she is capable of more – and an AWOL Tardis.
Not all arcs are plot arcs. in fact the best ones aren’t. The “crack” plot arc in S5 was a very lightweight framework for the staggeringly bold and brilliant study of loneliness and abandonment that was Amy’s character arc.
The music was terrific for me (and in terms of quality will always defer to the judgement of the walking medical emergency that is @thane16 senior, since she is as qualified to comment as anyone we are likely to meet). But again, it is worth remembering that Gold’s score for Rose was a truly dreadful parody of 60s caper shows like The Persuaders and it took him a good season and a half to properly find his groove.
Too adult? If Who isn’t giving 7-year-olds nightmares, it isn’t doing its job.
Also, there will be no dissing of Dinosaurs on a Spaceship, which besides being a ridiculous hoot of an episode, also had probably the darkest single moment of Smith’s run.
I remain wary of Chibnall, but this episode earns him the right to be trusted.
8 October 2018 at 20:56 #64291Well spotted. No idea. Doesn’t seem to be his phone.
8 October 2018 at 20:51 #64289Don’t see the fridge issue. Grace was a leader, led from the front and that comes with risk. Pretty much from the outset she was the one who investigated, went first, threw caution to the wind. And that is as dangerous as throwing your salad at an alien.
But functionally, she is a bit like the Eric Balfour character, Jesse, in the first episode of Buffy (Whedon wanted him in the main credits, but the network wouldn’t let him). It is a signal that nobody is safe. It is also floats the question (which is is nice to see acknowledged in this thread) of why we care about her death more than drunken salad guy or the train driver.
And also, in storytelling terms any victory must have a toll (the exception being stories of misunderstanding, which is what – say – Empty Child/ Doctor Dances was).
8 October 2018 at 17:31 #64280Couple of passing thoughts in the trailers and the post-credit sequence…
Odds on the Doc’s tearful farewell being Graham?
One of the teased cast was Vinette Robinson – not familiar with her, but her costume has a distinct “Katherine Johnson” look about it. that would be cool (didn’t Johnson have a cameo (so to speak) on Impossible Astronaut?)…
(Side note: if you haven’t seen Hidden Figures, treat yourself to the DVD)
8 October 2018 at 12:49 #64267@thane16 @juniperfish @jimthefish @craig
I must confess, the frothing range of the Angry Virgins has been one of the joys of the past 18 hours or so.
7 October 2018 at 23:30 #64242It was a warning not a lure!
I keep wanting to make “Ever Fallen In Love” jokes, but it is the wrong Shelley.
7 October 2018 at 23:04 #64240Always, with removable drives, trying emptying the trash, or whatever the hell ‘doze calls it. Removable drives often don’t release the space unless explicitly told to.
farewell XP, you’ll be missed
You are the only person ever to type this.
7 October 2018 at 22:28 #642357 October 2018 at 22:08 #64231I have to say, @danmartin‘s review strikes me as a bit mean-spirited.
Whovians of any era are used to having to absorb change and should know by now not to rely on statements from the showrunner. I remember a friend of the “I saw the very first episode AND the repeat” ilk refusing to believe that Tennant could be replaced – but being open-minded enough to later maker a diary in the style of River’s. And in Eleventh Hour, for all its charm and wonder, Rory’s character was far from fleshed out.
It seemed a bit….whiney. Not like him at all.
Should Whittaker (BTW people it’s J.O.D.I.E – an e but no y) not have said “butty” if going with the oop t’north theme?
PS Apparently the Daily Mail has been spectacularly predictable.
7 October 2018 at 20:12 #64216As near to pitch perfect as one could reasonably ask.
A couple of very subtle callbacks (Really wanting a friend egg sandwich).
Nicely restrained from Walsh (although should not a surprise to any who saw him on Law & Order), and solid support from Gil and Cole (although at the moment Cole’s character seems a bit generic ‘black urban teen’).
Plot light, unsurprisingly given the focus on character introduction, but if you going to riff, you might as well riff on an Arnie story.
Like the music, although apaz we don’t get to hear the new theme proper until next week.
Hmmm. No sight of the You Know What yet… Begins with T ends in ardis.
Twitter seems to love it. The IMDB trolls have been at work, so you might all want to nip over and help fix that.
7 October 2018 at 19:49 #64214Yep. She’s the Doctor.
5 October 2018 at 00:57 #641774 October 2018 at 16:08 #641761 October 2018 at 22:37 #64166PSA: Anecdote is not the singular of evidence.
Muscle weakness and atrophy is a rare but known side effect and STOP TAKING THEM NOW contraindication of statins. So well-meaning (and competent) medics will properly balance the risks.
However, it is pretty well the most researched drug on the planet at the moment and the evidence for its benefits overall is as close to overwhelming as it ever gets (save a few cranks who deny the cholesterol >> heart disease link, and cherry pick their data accordingly).
However, most of the science does point to them giving most benefit in preventing recurrence of a heart attack.
It looks a little like aspirin is headed the same way, but it is an anti-coagulant so for those at risk it is, if not a wonder-drug, at least a pretty damned cost-effective supplement.
Now if you want a nightmare scenario, try heart disease at the same time as kidney disease. Welcome to the last 10 years of my dad’s life (a man who fought off undiagnosed TB).
30 September 2018 at 23:50 #64159@bambi70006
Welcome aboard – like @mudlark I rather envy the joy of discovery you have coming.
If you’re in the mood, get back to us when you are a bit further down the road with Amy. But even on what you have seen so far, try seeing her as one who:
– has had her parents disappear (“I don’t have parents, just an aunt”);
-And then had the Doctor arrive…and then vanish for 12 years;
-And then had him vanish again for 2 years.
That’s not independence, it’s abandonment issues by the truck load. She is a very well thought-out character (Rory, at first, less so, but carried by Arthur Darvill being so damned likeable).
If you rummage around you will find some S5 discussion here, although s6 is when this place really kicked off (after losing patience with the Guardian’s troll army).
30 September 2018 at 23:14 #64158@mudlark @thane16 @jimthefish @bluesqueakpip
On the other hand, Tennant was a spectacularly popular Doctor.
29 September 2018 at 02:17 #64141The previously leaked scene is now official. Dunno about you but I totally on board with Whittaker.
27 September 2018 at 01:46 #64137I guess this should go here, although no real spoilers: Guardian review of the premiere.
No real spoilers, I think but tl;dr – they loved it.
Also one very encouraging note re the new theme tune (which we will not hear properly until ep 2). It actually made me squee a bit. Some of the sample’s on Segun Akinola’s website did have a very Blue Veils and Golden Sands quality to them…
26 September 2018 at 00:24 #64134Now, one should eat butter and cheese and drink full cream milk – it’s GOOD for the heart – say the “experts!
It would help a lot if you could stop making shit up to support your fatuous certainty. No expert has suggested any of those things are good for you and all recommend cutting down. All also agree that a sensibly balanced diet is very healthy.
And it has been well known for decades that aspirin is a gastro-irritant. My mum couldn’t take it at all and once ended up in a lot of pain because the doctor forgot to put “take with food” on her prescription for ibuprofen (like aspirin, an NSAID).
And as @whisht has shown you are doing what many totally-ignorant-about-how-science-works people do, of confusing newspaper reporting with the actual findings of science. But who knows, may one day science *will* find that mainlining up the lard is good for you, but only if the evidence supports it, Because that is how science works – it is willing, at all times, to change its mind in the face of new evidence. Try it sometime – you will find it quite liberating.
You are, of course, perfectly entitled to make yourself look stupid. But at least try not to be dishonest about it.
23 September 2018 at 22:53 #64118Getting to the actual content of the trailer:
Who (or what) was The Doctor bidding an apparently tearful farewell to?
20 September 2018 at 01:40 #64099Hadn’t even spotted there’s an interview (I don’t think I am quite Style’s demographic): JW Interview
20 September 2018 at 01:08 #64098Not sure if it is news or sofa material, but this riff on Jimmy Kimmel’s Mean Tweets is fun:
https://twitter.com/StylistMagazine/status/1042412869055401985
( @craig – any idea why Tweets don’t seem to be embedding any more?)
20 September 2018 at 01:07 #64097Why on Earth would CGI bother you? Virtually every effect you see post about 2010 is CGI – green screen is the way.
The days one one frame of Treebeard (in LoTR) took 48 hours to render are long gone, so it is much more const effective than was once the case.
Although it might be interesting to try to use some Andy Serkis-style motion capture to push the boundaries of what on-screen aliens cam look like…
9 September 2018 at 02:55 #64079Additional, on target markets:
Daughters loved the new #DoctorWho 20 second trailer so much they asked to see it again straight after. Eldest thought the entirely-not-sorry "Whoops" was hilarious.
— Iain Clark (@iainjclark) September 8, 2018
9 September 2018 at 00:12 #64078@blenkinsopthebrave @jimthefish
Hmmm. Have to agree with @bluesqueakpip on the music.
But also rap/ hip hop and its many variants are major cultural phenomena and have been for the fat end of 25 years now. Dr Dre is 53, P Diddy, Jay-Z, Snoop Dogg and 50 Cent are all in their 40s now and even Macklemore is in his mid-30s and Sklar Grey (32) has written for Eminem and a whole bunch of others. They are mainstream.
To ignore that and complain about it is as roughly as rational as complaining about the gender of the lead character in a poplar Sci Fi show. And more than a little ARSEy.
Besides, if they were using it to appeal to the yoof, it would have been Stormzy (although he’s an exception at 25 – most of the Grime scene seem to be in their early 30s).
What say you oh Oracle of Music @thane16 ?
8 September 2018 at 23:47 #64077Where is pedant and what have you done with him??
He’s doing what he always does – grasping the distinction between manners and courtesy and why there is no such thing as a Comedy of Courtesy.
8 September 2018 at 18:19 #64072@jimthefish et all
Yeah, I saw that and thought Gattiss was kind of missing the point.
Indeed – sometimes it is more positive than mere pedantic adherence to form, as posted by pal a few hours after the JW reveal:
When your daughter spontaneously begins shouting "Help! I'm falling out of the TARDIS!" #DoctorWho #RepresentationMatters pic.twitter.com/CwbRTYueTD
— Iain Clark (@iainjclark) January 3, 2018
8 September 2018 at 17:32 #64069Move t’pub
@bluesqueakpip @thane16 @missy
some small minded racism, try following Tracy Ann Oberman on Twitter. She was Yvonne Hartman in both Torchwood and Doctor Who.
I have followed this. There is nothing small-minded about it; it is ideological and hate-fuelled with a massive does of sexism.
A world of a difference from getting uppity when expected to use more courteous language that is rooted in the modern era rather than an imagined rose-tinted time-of-yore that never really existed anyway.
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