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Further to comments above about the troll-like qualities of some online Whovians – the fanclubs of late 80s/90s also had their share of curmudgeonly types I believe.

@phaseshift (and others of the goth and other dark materials persuasion) – we were discussing recently (on the Hitchhiker’s thread) re if it’s possible to have too much black. I was saying of course it’s not… I may have changed my mind after reading this article in the Indie  –

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/blackest-is-the-new-black-scientists-have-developed-a-material-so-dark-that-you-cant-see-it-9602504.html

The comments are predictable but fun 🙂

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@blenkinsopthebrave

I am not sure that civility, wimsey, word-play, are really organic to the Internet

On the other hand, thanks to all the contributing members (and the light touch of our ever vigilant mods) those qualities are very much how I think of this Forum. Long may we continue to be perverse!

 

@craig Thanks for the Mark Kermode link. Nails and heads

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Phantom of the Opera in a country house 🙂

Poor George. (I liked how he was able to untie his ropes and sneak up on his gaoler (who was engrossed in reading – to the point where his presumably jungle-honed peripheral vision awareness has gone to zero. Beware of civilisation, folks 😉 ). The moral problem of what to do with George is neatly sidestepped by his death, ironically caused by his brother showing his (overdue?) affection.

It’s a lightweight story, but it’s nice to see Tegan getting a bit more to do. Nyssa/Anna double act promised a lot but didn’t really give Sarah Sutton much variety. I really liked Nyssa when she first turned up in the Keeper of Traken, but as others have pointed out, by this time the companions were mostly reduced to background bickering, which is a shame.  At the end the girls are most excited about being able to keep their costumes! (The whole of time and space to travel in, but  at least they’ll be able to relieve the boredom by dressing up!) (Great spot by @janetteb on the history of Lady C’s dress).

I agree with @bluesqueakpip that the direction is a bit by the numbers – makes sense that this was a 1st outing for the director.

Verdict: mostly harmless

😉

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Just to say big thanks to @wolfweed @craig @phaseshift @jimthefish @fatmaninabox for all their efforts to keep us spoiler free in the forum. This is now the only place I’m looking for DW news and I’m so glad it’s here.

The rest of the time I’m wearing my danger specs – which makes surfing the net a bit complicated 😎

I 100% agree with @bluesqueakpip‘s warning about rough cuts and pre-FX versions. That’s not a spoiler, it’s not cooked yet. RESIST everyone 😉

Though I’m slightly worried about @wolfweed‘s warning –

Satan will depart and Angels will come and bring nourishment to you…

You mean…?

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Oh, so excited and much frustrated! This is one of my fav episodes… but no time to watch till tomorrow! (See you all then)

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@miapatrick

Just delighted for you, that’s seriously well done. (And a bow-tied boyfriend as a bonus, LOL).

I shall do my special yeti dance of joy for you!!  Have a great weekend.

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@wolfweed

Thanks for the pics. The Doctor’s looking very much like your worst date nightmare! Posh venue, you’ve got your best dress on, taken hours with your hair – and he turns up looking like he’s just spent the weekend at Glastonbury!

(And is that a pan galactic gargleblaster that Sanjeev’s holding…? 😉 )

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thanks @midnyt

Presumably all the released “saved” people will spread the word the Library’s a bit shady!

It’s also possible that the Vashta Nerada hybernate or do a suspended animation thing till food arrives, then they wake up and do mega-lunch!

I love the Vashta Nerada – one of my favourite “baddies”.  “Not every shadow… but they could be ANY shadow” (oooh! shivers!! Brilliantly creepy Moff invention).  I love how the Doctor doesn’t defeat them or kill them, but just rescues the people.  This double parter is one of my fave stories ever.

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@TheCrackinthewall

All the people are teleported away from the library in the short period of grace that the Doctor has arranged with the Vashta Nerada. I think the Doctor also comments that there will be an intergalactic no go warning placed on the Library (I’d need to go back and check, or maybe someone else can confirm).

So the VN are left with the empty library to themselves. I think they maybe didn’t quite think through the terms of their agreement with the Doctor, but presumably they can live on things other than people.

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@blenkinsopthebrave

Like Dr Who from a parallel universe! Very odd, but yes strangely entertaining.

Sonic screw sword indeed!

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Chuckles.

@craig @jimthefish – been trying to think what else the Aussie cossies remind me of.  Great call from @blenkinsopthebrave on the Tegan look… but also this –

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@jimthefish

 I think I must be the only person in the world who kind of likes it

I think you might be 🙂 Or at least the 8% who voted it a hit in recent STV poll.

My favourite comment on it so far – “made in Scotland, from curtains”

(or we’re just trying to dazzle the opposition before we hit the tracks!)

Doctor Who themed cossies – love it!

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Re leaked scripts – anyone on twitter might want to use the official hashtag – # keepmespoilerfree

This pic is going out from all the official tweeters (but there’s some fun other ones as well) –

 

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Just adding to the general enthusiasm for recent artwork posts.

Great poster @phaseshift (and love the new home page avatar @wolfweed )

Meant to comment on @midnyt‘s beautiful Gallifreyan scripts before (and say hi to (fairly!) new member)

@fatmaninabox – no it doesn’t need any more colour 😉 but agree with @jimthefish‘s remark that you’ve made him look much pretty cool. (If only you’d been on JNT’s team in the 80s)

@blenkinsopthebrave Doctor Who meets Japanese tokusatsu sounds irresistibly intriguing – but the youtube acount’s been deleted

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@craig @jimthefish @phaseshift @fatmaninabox @blenkinsopthebrave

If  the mods are happy to increase vigilance then I think that would be my preferred option, rather than pulling up the drawbridge etc for the next 3 months. Most people here are generally v good at not posting spoilers in the wrong place, except for the occasional newbie.

I agree with Blenkinsopthebrave about the joys of watching shows in complete ignorance of plot details etc – but the downside of  that was no repeat viewings and no internet forums to dive into and share views, bonkers theories and cocktail recipes. (It’s not that it spoils the show completely – eg I’ve no problem rewatching anything, just that surprises are part of the fun of first-viewings)

@craig – “I have the scripts…” That was thrown in very casually!  They’ve only just been leaked!!   (impressed (and appreciative of your sacrifice for us grovelling minions))

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@wolfweed

Thanks for the spoiler warning. Oh my, that’s a bit of a  f*ck up. Again. Wasn’t it BBC Worldwide who leaked Name of the Doctor… or maybe that was  the merchandising dept.  Moffat should think about using Philip Morris’s security system – that seems pretty watertight!!

Someone needs to invent the equivalent of Zaphod Beeblebrox’s “danger specs” for Dr Who – set to go completely dark 3 seconds before any spoilery Who articles appear on newsfeeds/search engine results etc.

(It’s going to be a stressful 47 days for us spoiler-phobes! Grud on a greenie, this isn’t good for my heartses!)

 

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Happy 95th birthday to Jon Pertwee today, wherever he is

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@fatmaninabox @Purofilion

(Greetings – not interacted for ages)

Thanks for starting off the week by putting the image of Ian Levine’s knickers in my head!! Bleurgh!!

😉

(And yes I agree, blatant hoax. I live in hope of the missing episodes coming home at some point tho. Shame they don’t have a TARDIS to go and look for them with)

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I think this starts well, riffing on the screwball comedies, as others have pointed out, including the shiny glass office-block setting.  I like the setting-up of the Adipose plot (the diet industry must be one of the most sinister concepts of the last 20 years).

But it falls apart when it starts to go into details – 1 mysterious black van to go round and collect all the little babies born per night? Puh-lease!  And how to get 10,000 little Adipose babies safely to the mama-ship – they might be cute (lovely vfx work), but they’re very squashable. Several of them are done for by the arrival of the taxi.

I did like the toilet scene, where we’ve been led to believe that it’s Donna who’s been spotted, when in fact it’s the journalist.  But… but.. you mean both Donna and the journalist have been hiding in the loos for 9 hours?!! (9am – 6pm, according to the clock)

Tennant and Tate work really well together, including his admission that he screwed up Martha’s life (which ties in well, I thought, with his silence in Martha’s farewell scene).  I really like Tennant’s “shading” in his playing of the Dr, his quiet moments are really powerful, often poignant.

And Bernard Cribbins – what’s not to like there?

 

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And Peter Davison channelling Arthur Dent in dressing gown (with very high belt!)

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I’m really enjoying watching these – especially now having the benefit of the instant pause button, to catch up on the bits in the guide which aren’t in the narration! (like the Human Gullibility factor of 9)

It amazes me how familiar – and still relevant (taxes, food sources, privilege… and overloud extravagant rock bands!) – a lot of it is… and yes where’s our small green @arkleseizure these days?

As well as every cheesy gameshow host you ever cringed at in the 70s, Max also reminded me of Emcee in Cabaret, with all the cynical darkness that entails. This is a man who watches the beginning and end of the universe on the same day on a regular basis.

Peter Davison is great as the cow who wants to be eaten, great scene.

But sorry @phaseshift, I have to completely disagree with –

yes, you can have too much black.

that’s just a conclusion too far! 🙂

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Thanks everyone for comments, inc @blenkinsopthebrave for the context. Re steam trains on Gallifrey – possibly, or they may have been included in educational/historical videos about Earth. Now we know why he has such a fondness for Earth and humans.

@phaseshift –

It’s a Black Orchid which a famous Botanist returned from South America. Hmmmm Native American with the extended lip, flowers, botanist. I think I see a pattern

And who is/was the body in the cupboard you mention also?

@thekrynoidman

Re the adverts – you get them with Daily Motion – you need to keep the cursor poised on the play/pause button – hit it as soon as the advert kicks in and you can skip the ad.

And good point from @jimthefish, although I suspect that’s why these stories have floated to the top of the selection process

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Oooh, good trailer. It’s all looking a bit firey in the TARDIS tho. And the voice is in the TARDIS too…?

<goes and finds secret space under the sofa… this could be very scary indeed!>

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Oh, nice choice for Independence Day @whisht (And I agree with you – their footie team did them proud)

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@blenkinsopthebrave

Thanks for the spoilers page spoiler warning – I usually keep off it, but it gets very tempting when you see lots of activity there. I will continue to resist. (My rule of thumb is if it passes the @bluesqueakpip test then it’s OK)

Ah, a wee cameo return of  Ian would be great – I shall hold you personally responsible if it doesn’t happen. I haven’t given up hope on Canton yet, unlikely as it seems. A girl needs to have dreams!

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Anything with Mark Sheppard in it gets my vote 🙂

@phaseshift – well done on keeping a note of  who likes CB (tho I presume it wasn’t too time-consuming!). Seriously tho, would be good to have some comments from people happy to view CB episodes, bit of variety of opinion n all that. (I’m just happy it’s now July and I can turn my calendar page to McCoy!!)

Baker was great as Bayban the Butcher (excellent scenery chewing), and in the Brothers too from what I remember.  Just not good (or not well served by the scripts, direction or production team!) as the Doctor.

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All looking good.

I like that they’re bringing in quality new folk and not relying too much on the same old faces (not that I have a problem with most them); shows they have confidence in the show.

I think it’s the “can be anything/go anywhere any type of story” thing about DW that must be extremely enticing for writers and directors. Not to mention the budget.  Whatever, it’s a good sign that good people want to be involved. Ha! they’re all crawling out of the woodwork now – where were they all in the dark years of the 80s and the even bleaker gap years?! (Just don’t tell me they were in nappies!!)

@bluesqueakpip – is news about Moffat’s intentions after series 8 a spoiler…? (Cos there was some news about it)

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@phaseshift

Yup, put me down for the rootin tootin restrospective too, great idea. I’m sure we can find a way to make selected non-Who ones Who-centric (as in @blenkinsopthebrave‘s suggestion); And agree re the scheduling.  A free week before 23rd Aug is a good idea – time to concoct appropriate cocktails for example 🙂

I’m with @bluesqueakpip re the Twin Dilemma (although I would add being forced to watch all CB’s stories on a loop while she sorts out the field interphase stabiliser). @Blenkinsopthebrave’s Mark of the Rani suggestion is a good one (would be my second choice) but I’m still jumping up and down for Vengeance, with the mighty Sil.

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@blenkinsopthebrave

think of just how radically left-field Moffat was in writing Moriarty for Sherlock

Good point. And sadly there was only one Delgado. Although as with many things Who he was very much of his era and Doctor.

Ha! I ALWAYS expect the unexpected… and mostly I still get surprised from left-field.  And so long as I can resist the pull of the Spoilers thread I’ll be fine!

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@fosterferris

I have to disagree about Patrick Stewart playing the Master

No prob, just difference of opinion. I just think Patrick S could act anything. If the Master’s coming back then he’s likely to be different from Simm’s version. The master traditionally has as many personalities as the Doctor, personality change is built into regeneration (just as well 🙂 )

Love your idea of a Dorium/Dreamlord confrontation – now that really could be bonkers! (And I reckon Toby Jones could play off well against Capaldi)

 

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Ooooh bonkers theories creeping out again! Thanks @brewski and @whisht (Dorium as cyberleader and a Davros/Dreamlord faceoff 😈 )

And a guest role for Michelle Gomez – yippee. (Agree she could be a great Doctor – or a great Rani); That’s a very period costume she’s wearing. Madame Vastra period maybe…?

Hmmm – Patrick Stewart as the Master – that could be a really nice pairing with Capaldi.

Anyone know if they’ve sneaked Peter Jackson in to direct anything? (S’pose it would have to be these episodes if he is, as everything else is allocated)

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For a TV programme, there’s remarkably little in the way of visuals – a big box, flashing lights and a lot of dry ice.. and it’s great. And I agree – the philosophers are pure Python.

It also reminds me how much of the Hitchhikers’ ethos and phrasing is embedded in modern culture (as others have mentioned too). Maybe we are just a (very big computer programme…

Love the mice. And Slartibartfast.

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And a happy birthday to Ray Harryhausen (who would have been 94 today)

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@miapatrick

Great to see you back

(The clock’s started and it’s counting down 🙂 )

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And yes, enjoyed the RTD/Verity Lambert interview very much. The comments about older v younger Doctors are funny; never say never with this show.  And really glad Gatiss made such a success of Adventure in Space and Time. 

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I managed to miss this (and the Runaway Bride) first time round (no iplayer catch-up way back then and Dr Who fans are waaay in the minority in my family ie there’s just me!)

I liked a lot of it, a lot. But definitely with @phaseshift on the heavenly ascension bit – tho they do manage to switch it to a Superman 1 hand extended flying pose to crash thro the floor.  I was surprised by the no of actual deaths in it, and sorry, Kylie turning into the phoenix asteroids to circle the universe forever doesn’t really cut it in compensation. I liked Morvin and Foon 😥  It’s interesting who is saved (a bit against genre?) and I liked the scene where Astrid says that it would be awful to be the person who decides who lives or dies. This time the Doctor doesn’t get to choose.

Nice callout to Robots of Death. And it’s got Bernard Cribbins 😀

To be fair to RTD they were still working out what the Xmas Special could/should be. But overall I much prefer Moffat’s take on it, esp Christmas Carol ( 🙂 @phaseshift‘s Jaws comment) and the Snowmen. Less of the big scary things stamping around, and “smaller ” stories on the whole, fairy tales rather than disaster movies.  (But yes, Christmas in the 70s wasn’t complete without a rerun of  Jaws, Towering Inferno, Bond… and the Great Escape; kids today have no idea just how lucky they are!!)

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Great fun, and has has been said, sharply written and directed, with great performances from the leads. And Paris looks great. Well worth the money!

Duggan’s like a big puppy, and I agree, he would’ve been so much better than Adric (I might not have missed so many of Davison’s episodes 😉 ). Though I think his wee brain has had about all the time travel and alien encounters it can handle by the end of this episode!

Love how Scaroth is finally done for by his doting manservant who doesn’t recognise his master’s tentacley real face. And I love that the Countess is convinced by the Doctor’/s arguments that her husband is an alien by the image on an ancient Egyptian parchment. Well you would really, wouldn’t you?!

@bluesqueakpip and @phaseshift – Yup, agree – something exploding on Earth to kickstart the primordial soup (LOL @wolfweed‘s can) would seem to be an extremely fixed point in time and the universe (as per Ms BSP’s diagrams) is making double and triple sure it happen!

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Cheers everyone!

@rob – hope the walking’s still going well and you haven’t rusted up completely.

Oooh, and I’ve just noticed we’ve got a counter on the front page! Oh my heartses, too much excitement (thanks @craig)

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Trailer’s looking good.

Much as I like the idea of post regeneration amnesia continuing for a bit, it could just as easily be packed into the pre-credits sequence. But I love @bluesqueakpip‘s idea of a memory ring, that can be dipped into as required. Might need some sort of quick access bypass tho – there wouldn’t be much time to  check the memory bank if a Dalek suddenly materialised in front of him. If Capaldi’s wearing a ring, for whatever reason, you can be damn sure Moffat won’t be able to resist coming up with a reason for it!

Thanks for the Timelord of the Rings sketch @wolfweed, made me chuckle. And I’ll ignore @phaseshift‘s attempt at lowering the tone 😉  But thanks for posting the series 8 credits – that’s a delicious looking list of writers and directors.

 

 

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@phaseshift

Awakening/Black Orchid as 1st choice, Kinda for 2nd

And hi to @fosterferris aka TheCrackInTheWall and @abxy

23 Aug

Wooohoooooooo

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@blenkinsopthebrave @phaseshift – I apologise for mis-tagging the idea for Top 10 of individual Doctors – still a great idea tho (and I still second the nomination of Blenkinsop for the Hartnell one (or any other one he feels inspired to do – have more inspiration as required – 2 glasses is never enough!))

My final thought (for now) on memorable sci fi moments – they surely can’t have left out Sean Connery’s “classic” costume in Zardos (agh! my eyes 😉 )

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<Rubs hands in gleee>
he he.. Lists… see what I started 😈
@whisht – completely agree with you about that first scene in Star Wars – that seemed like the biggest ship ever shown on screen up till then. And 2001 deserves all the kudos it gets, especially since it was done without a computer graphic in sight.
There’s also Kubrick’s earlier scifi – Kong’s bombriding scene in Dr Strangelove

And the brilliant talking bomb at the end of Dark Star –

(Pesky things bombs 😉 )
Whisht should get the prize for picking out the earliest film, but great selections from everyone.

@blenkinsopthebrave Great 2-bottle-inspired idea for Top 10 things/scenes for each Doctor – you should do it!

@craig Thank you mighty Emperor for the SFX digest (Any mention of Vogon spaceships in the list or is it films only?)

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Top 10 Sci Fi moments –
I’m in the Pah! and Harrumph! camps 😉
Nothing pre 1980.

@janetteb – Top 10 Doctor Who moments? That sounds like a “thing” 🙂
My starters –
1. Ian and Barabara’s very first stumble into the TARDIS
2. Hartnell morphing into Troughton in The Tenth Planet
3. The TARDIS as a Dalek battering ram in Day of the Doctor
4. The pull out reveal of the Cybermen waking up in Tomb of the Cybermen
5. Dalek emerging from the Thames in the Dalek invasion of Earth
6. Troughton’s “they sleep in my mind” speech to Victoria
7. Dalek levitating up stairs in Remembrance of the Daleks
8. Tom Baker’s cameo in Day of the Doctor
9. The travellers seeing themselves in museum cases in The Space Museum
10. First intro to Oak and Quill in The Underwater Menace

That’s just what occurs off the top of my head, and not really in a particular order. I expect much disagreement (including from myself when I think it though further and see other people’s suggestions)

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The guard in 1505 is probably an ancestor of Duggan’s 😈

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@phaseshift
Re Leonardo’s reputation for not finishing work (the original Mona Lisa wasn’t delivered to the man who commissioned it, Leonardo had it for decades saying it wasn’t quite finished)…
well no wonder – he was busy producing 6 new copies of his masterpiece!!

Agree with the above comments (and on previous episodes) – the acting of the leads is just great. (Love the scene where Romana neatly sneaks into the cafe – followed by Duggan breaking the window to get in. The ensuing discussion underlines the differences between them. Duggan is a wee boy.

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I’m happy to leave the choice for the fifth to those who know him better. I like Kinda and would be happy to see it again but also intrigued by the Black Orchid/Awakening double bill, especially as I don’t know either

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Apologies to @thekrynoidman You did indeed 😉

And thanks to @bluesqueakpip and @phaseshift for your get well wishes. Back to my annoyingly bouncey yeti self 😉 (these retrospectives have been just what the Doctor ordered!)

I agree with Phaseshift re Martha’s arc. I’ve enjoyed her story much more on this viewing, having initially found her a bit annoying, and as you say, it becomes much clearer when we’re only looking at the RTD episodes. She really has found her own 2 feet by the end of Last of the Time Lords; she may or may not go for the hunky paediatrician (who, after all, was prepared to stop a bullet for her), but she’s not going to build her life around him. Or the Doctor. Incidentally I thought the Doctor’s reaction in her final scene was interesting. As a viewer you want him to say something, yet he seems to be very intent on not giving her anything to build her hopes on, or influence her decision; while contemplating his own solitary travels and the knowledge that 1 more Time Lord light has gone out and he couldn’t prevent it.

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Not been feeling too great this week – what a lovely way to recuperate – double dose of Who… and Tennant. I do miss him sometimes. (There again I also miss Troughton.. and Hartnell… and Matt (already!) 😉 )

I think these final 2 episodes have a bit of trouble living up to the promise of Utopia which I thought was really strong throughout. As others have said, it would have been interesting to see these episodes written for Jacobi, but I can see why they would think the younger Master was a better balance. That said, I agree with @bluesqueakpip that Simms has a great stab at it given how it’s scripted and he has some great scenes with Tennant who’s pretty amazing throughout.

I like a lot of the ideas and imagery in both the episodes a lot, enough to get over the “elephant in the room” Christ like resurrection and shiny, floaty, forgivey Doctor business.

What I did like was Martha growing up. You can see she’s tougher as she gets off the boat after a year of travelling the world. And I was glad she got a proper farewell, although it did go on a little bit! But she leaves for her family and to do her job as a doctor, with a possibility of a love interest. She’s ready to grow up and move on.

Not a complete fan of the Toclofane, they’re fairly undefined until the shock reveal that they are the remains of the humans in Utopia – I wondered what happened to them. Maybe you can want to survive just a little too much. Beyond the point where you are still human. I also liked Martha’s mum (tho the family are mostly just plot-conveniences), especially the scene when the Doctor talks her out of killing the Master. Only for him to be gunned down by Lucy who was looking progressively more bullied throughout End of the World compared with her confidence in the Sound of Drums.

The scene of the Master’s funeral pyre – the Doctor burns the last Time Lord (other than himself) as he watched the others burn on Gallifrey. (And as in all the best vampire movies, the apparently insignificant ring drops and is scooped up by unseen hands)

Last word to @phaseshift
Delgado watching The Clangers becomes Simm watching the Teletubbies.
Excellent spot sir!

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Rik Mayall
🙁
@phaseshift Brilliant clips
Not much to add except to echo what’s been said (@Whisht I had the same problem with Monty Python 😉 )
The first time I came across Rik Mayall was as Kevin Turvey…

Glorious 4 minute rambles
The trouble with Rik Mayall tributes is that he keeps making you laugh 🙁

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As we’re currently viewing City of Death, it seemed an opportune time to post a couple of clips from Julian Glover’s younger half-brother, Robert Wyatt (I only found out about the family connection because of the current viewing schedule! Who says hanging around on internet forums isn’t educational!). Connections are weird 😉

This one caused a bit of a stushie in 1974 when the BBC originally deemed that Wyatt in a wheelchair wasn’t suitable for Top of the Pops family viewing!! Wyatt won 🙂

And this is a stonewall classic –

[Author]

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