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19 October 2013 at 15:26 #18766
Fixed points are definitely fixed but we may not interpret what we’ve seen correctly. Eg We think the fixed point is River shooting the Doctor but the actual fixed point is that River shoots the tesselector and the Universe thinks it’s the Doctor. The writers just have to change the perspective/cheat 😉
The Flesh only acquired independent life as a result of the very particular conditions in Almost People story. Otherwise they always have to be linked to the original (ie baby River was elsewhere but would think she was in the spaceship with her mum as she experienced it through the flesh eyes/body). But see first paragraph above re perspective/cheating.
@Shazzbot I’d put money on River being in the 50th 🙂 (except that I’m Scottish, and we’re mean!). Her exit line of “Spoilers!” in NotD was obviously part of her we-don’t-do-emotions “the only way I can bear saying goodbye to you is if we pretend this isn’t the big one” stance but also strongly hints that she and a Doctor/Eleven meet again (in his future/her past). This River (the one uploaded to the computer) is the oldest one we can meet, she knows everything River is ever going to know – she knows if there’s more to come.
But questions remain re eg if she’s been able to access other computer networks while she’s been uploaded. Is Vastra’s seance/meeting the only time River’s been “out”?
PS We could always switch the flesh discussions to AGMGTW thread if you want to go into it in more detail
19 October 2013 at 13:09 #18760@Shazzbot – Agree, and I’m trying to be careful re plot points.
But will someone PLEASE watch Orphan Black #6, so I can compare notes. Possibly the most surreally funny and simultaneously deeply scary and disturbing thing I’ve seen on TV since… I can’t remember when. Off the scale of Bonkers
19 October 2013 at 12:48 #18757@Shazzbot (kudos to you on the pub research @bluesqueakpip
I’m happy with whatever suits most people (and the Airedales of course) – big Sat’day morning woofs to them)), but I’d second the request for easy access to DLR
19 October 2013 at 12:46 #18756LOL @pedant Seems the Doctor was up against the BBC Daleks from before it even started. (Or maybe they were just worried that every episode was going to be done twice)
19 October 2013 at 12:40 #18755@miapatrick You say
but do we know, for an absolute fact,
Ha! There’s no such thing in Dr Who! (And I still cling to my theory that River can pop up anywhen, so long as she’s younger than she was in the Library)
19 October 2013 at 01:48 #18734@toinfinityandbepond @Shazzbot
Sorry Shazz, (up to and inc #5) we know who Beth‘s monitor is, but not Sarah’s. Or Cosima’s for that matter. We don’t know if the monitors change as they grow up, or if they’re attached to them once they become adults (which might put Vic the Dick in the frame, if you’re looking for unlikely!) They should check ALL the adoption records. Including Fee’s. If you ask me. 🙂
19 October 2013 at 01:07 #18731er… hope I’m not interrupting
😉
Fascinating discussion tho, and argued with passion on both sides. I would add that some editors are very keenly aware of the pressures put on them by owners/boards/CEOs to run with particular stories “which are of special interest to their readers”. Sounds OK? What it means is that there is a narrowly defined demographic which is targeted by the papers to the exclusion of developing new readerships by eg running stories with a wider brief, which possibly require a bit more journalistic skill. Celebs? Great. Soundbite? Fab. Regurgitated months old story of a celeb “who was nearly the new Doctor”? Wonderful – run it! If the editors don’t comply, they’re out the door.
There’s also the problem that news, and more especially features, are seen as secondary to advertising space. A late sale on ad space comes in – story space gets squeezed, or bumped altogether.
Meanwhile I submit this amusing piece from the BBC website on the prickly tale of Jumpergate, which apparently had the wires buzzing this week, and seems pertinent to the discussion – http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24586951
(Start with what you want the story to be and never mind that the truth might not quite fit)
Now just don’t get me started on subs 😈
18 October 2013 at 08:21 #18672@Shazzbot – thanks for the Tennant link. Good to hear it’s going well. RSC are usually rock solid in productions. (What’s with Doctors and hair…? (would be a sensation if he wore that in the 50th, haha (it’s been a long time since he was in the TARDIS))
Meanwhile here’s a link to Metro’s thoughts on the recent photos. (Now they mention it, that sonic is remarkably prominent)
<jumps and down re their spot on Tennant’s TARDIS* – I saw that too!!>
*So we have a spare TARDIS – does that scupper thoughts that it’s metaTennant who’s in the 50th?
18 October 2013 at 08:11 #18671Check out 2 posts above yours 😉
You don’t need more caffeine, you just need to get up earlier, LOL.Have a good day in the mud 🙂
18 October 2013 at 01:53 #1866417 October 2013 at 18:27 #18659@bluesqueakpip And yes your post about Ben Wheatley directing some of series 8 is very exciting. (Annual 3D movie – i’m holding you to that!)
17 October 2013 at 18:13 #18658@htpbdet (with thanks to @Shazzbot for posting)
Nice theory – and good to see the meds are kicking in well 🙂
(And no, we’ve not worked out who HurtDr is yet – but I think it’s now down to about 6 possibilities)
A holy trinities of 3 Doctors (merging into 1), hmm? Father, son, “ghost”…? I like how you work in the previous (BG) specials – am I right that all previous multi-Doctor stories have involved Time Lord intervention to avoid a paradox? All the Christmas and Easter references throughout Moff’s run might still mean something then? (And balances @bluesqueakpip‘s 3 women/fates theory)
Hurt as Doctor Zero* means we’re at Valeyard stage already (I bring it up since he/it was name-checked in NotD); I like meta-Ten morphing/fusing with Eleven. But you still need to find extra regenerations surely? Or is the combination of 3 Doctors becoming 1 enough to reboot the regeneration cycle?
*Prisoner Zero????
17 October 2013 at 17:53 #18657Re viewing stats – I was suggesting they were remarkably consistent, and even in this time-shifted multi-channel world, they compare well with previous years (and without taking the iplayer stats into account). And that’s just UK figs.
Although… there’s a rumour that only about 70,000 people watch DW regularly – but we all watch it at least 100 times!!
(I think there’s no doubt that its audience, especially globally, is expanding exponentially since 2005)
17 October 2013 at 16:34 #18647Who knows what the suits are up to? The Beeb is under massive pressure to justify the licence fee. I’m sure the team would argue strongly for the ongoing marketing power of 13 episodes. I wouldn’t mind the episodes being a bit longer – even the extra 5 mins of Asylum made a huge amount of difference in the pacing. However, as long as they’re aiming for an international market I think we are stuck with the 43 mins length (which is better than 25 mins!), and hopefully a series of about 13 episodes. But I take your point. Being a Doctor Who fan is to be best pals with paranoia!
That link I posted above re wikipedia entry for DW stats – is quite interesting re audience figs. Hartnell started it off with just under 8m, rising to 10+ in Season 2, Troughton was just under 7m, Pertwee era increased it to 8+m, Tom B kicked it up to regularly 10+m, Davison was consistently around 7m. AG DW looks pretty consistent on 7+m (with Tennant’s exceptional S4 at 8m). Although the figs for the specials kinda scupper my first paragraph argument above, I’d still argue that with audiences of 7m weekly, that it makes sense to stick to a run, for higher profile (and to keep those DVD sales going).
PS I’m sure @phaseshift or @craig could recommend sites for viewing outwith the usual places!
17 October 2013 at 15:44 #18644“Timey Wimey Wibbly Wobbly” is a totally acceptable explanation – “mumbo jumbo” is just too vague
😆
17 October 2013 at 15:39 #18642I wasn’t necessarily thinking of it moving away from TV format (tho it’s definitely a way to try it out), but a cinema release is a great way to attract new viewers (cf Marvel’s Agents of Shield) – well, assuming cinemas pick it up of course – shame on Canada. Lots of sympathies to you, though I seem to remember that you had cracked the illicit pleasures of black-download sites.
Shifting formats – re starting off 25 mins, weekly – not only that, they ran for 40+ weeks per year (till Pertwee, when it was cut to 25). According to wikipedia there’s been a total of 798 episodes to date (if you inc the TV movie). That makes Xmas special the 800th episode. And series 8 #1 will be #801.
Maybe the delay for the 8th series is down to creative reasons (inc Moff & co busy on other things inc the anniversary) – I’ve decided not to get ARSEy about it. If we have to wait a little more time in order for them not to rush it, then it’s not that bad a thing*.
Best of luck in your hunt for good Canadian reds.
*(Note to Stephen M – See? we can be reasonable – Can we have the anniversary trailer NOW? Please??!)
17 October 2013 at 15:17 #18641Been wondering about the haircut too (for the reasons @bluesqueakpip says) – ooh, a River farewell – that’d break hearts… OTOH River can have her farewell with Matt, but it doesn’t mean she can’t come back for series 8. A younger than in the Library River could be off having adventures with Capaldi even as we speak.
🙂
I was going along with your theory till I got to
(And you can make up some mumbo jumbo to give him back regenerations)
Sorry, “mumbo jumbo” is just not good enough for around here 😉
17 October 2013 at 15:12 #18639Plus something @phaseshift has previosuly brought up, some fans don’t consider the first two changes to be regenerations as such as the term was never used at the time.
To be fair, those people should be taken out and shot. Harsh, I know, but fair.
<splutters coffeee all over computer screen>
😆
17 October 2013 at 12:57 #18624Christmas advert – for Dr Who?
Be patient, it will come (and be gone before we know it)! (I know, we’ve been saying that for months/centuries!). I heard they’re doing something especially for it, more like a prequel than a trailer as such. That’d be worth waiting for.
17 October 2013 at 12:53 #18623Happy 47th birthday to Mark Gatiss
17 October 2013 at 11:53 #18619Actually, bearing in mind how close they will be transmitted together, I wouldn’t be that surprised if the anniversary ep and the Xmas ep won’t actually take the form of some kind of two-parter…
I was thinking that too. Incidentally I was trawling back through old posts on here and you had some remarkably prescient things to say way back in January re Matt leaving this year.
17 October 2013 at 11:34 #18617Much as I love the idea of sneaking in a new Doctor unexpectedly, I’d be gutted if PC was only the Doctor for 1 or 2 episodes. Althought Hurt would be a good substitute 😉
Given what I said above about the 50th being a calling card, I would love to see them sneak in a regeneration. (They can find a timeywimey way to still inc Matt in the Xmas story)
17 October 2013 at 11:15 #18615Grovelling apologies for my inattention, oh intercontinental one. I thought you were still in the Qantum* Club Lounge but you have materialised in a different continent (I did think your timings were slightly different recently). So, from Pyroviles to Ice Warriors? (80 deg difference… that’s quite a leap)
*sic
17 October 2013 at 11:09 #18614Nice summing up of possibilities for HurtDr. Tho as well as @janetteb‘s timeloop theory (see also alt universe theory) there’s also the possibility of a post Matt incarnation, inc the Valeyard 🙂 Although I go back to the fact that Clara only saw the Doctor’s “eleven faces – all of them”. I think HurtDr is in his past, but buried deep in his memories (NiS). maybe what the HurtDr did is what led (eventually) to Trenzalore. In order to avoid that fate Matt has to revisit events in his past.
They have been teasing that Matt is “the Eleventh” throughout his run – which makes me deeply suspicious, LOL. But NotD hinted strongly he’s the last. Unless he can change something.
For various reasons – not least that there is now a whole new generation which has grown up with the Doctor, for whom Eccleston is a distant memory (wow!!) – think most of the story refs will be from AG Who. Much like NotD (I loved how knowledge and love for the whole show permeated that but detailed knowledge of its history wasn’t essential for enjoyment). And I agree that the 50th will be largely standalone. It’s a calling card for new fans, a trial for cinema, and a celebration for everyone. I’m excited about the extra minutes – Moffat generally does really well with a little extra time – eg Eleventh Hour and Asylum.
I agree that the 50th is likely to clear away old conitnuity problems like the 12 regen limit. It may set up new mysteries, but by the end it will be ready for the next 50 years (well, the next 10 at least, until it needs another reboot)
These days I tend to mistrust everything Moffat says. I think he is having a lovely time playing with fans, teasing, misdirecting, setting up false expectations, all so that he can really, really surprise us on the 23rd
I agree with that and I really hope he’s having fun with it after the awful time he had on Twitter. It’s thank to his and the Doctor’s habit of lying through their teeth that we have any chance of coming to episodes unspoilered.
16 October 2013 at 10:01 #18576In the new photos in the link posted by @bluesqueakpip – the first one, with Tennant – is that his TARDIS? (the rest are clearly Matt’s new one)
<gets a bit overexcited about 3 Doctors and 2 TARDISes)>
16 October 2013 at 09:37 #18573@bluesqueakpip Thanks for posting, really nice pics. Love the one of the 3 Doctors, with JH effortlessly upstaging everyone 🙂 (And well spotted @shazzbot, it is indeed (tho your comment does come across as a bit oo, er missus! 😉 ))
16 October 2013 at 08:56 #18569@phaseshift You did indeed suggest a blog, great idea. Not much info out yet, but it’s starting to trickle in
16 October 2013 at 08:52 #18568@arkleseizure – have fun and keep an eye out for watery vampires 😈
<waves @timeloop> welcome back. Keep an eye on the websites, cinema listings are starting to come through now
16 October 2013 at 08:46 #18567<Jumps up and down in timeywimey Yeti dance of joy>
thank you, in a lovely TARDIS blue too
All hail the Emperor!
🙂
15 October 2013 at 11:56 #18541@jimthefish – oh the resposibilities, LOL. Look forward to seeing whatever you produce. If it’s something for the 50th then it should really reference old and new – but maybe aim for that for November.
@craig Can we have a countdown clock? Pretty, pretty please…? (All the best Who-sites have them 😉 )
And did anyone else think a thread specifically for what people are doing on the anniversary would be useful? ie somewhere that eg @whohar could have gone straight to for info re screening/broadcast; exchange of custard recipes, best sources for jelly babies etc
15 October 2013 at 11:48 #18540Keep an eye on this page for updates on broadcast times –
(They’ve not announced time yet, but that’s usually late to catch the other channels on the hoof)
15 October 2013 at 08:17 #18535You’re back!!! 😀
We missed you. Hope the bath’s in good nick, you’ll need to start filling it soon 😉
Maybe @janetteb or @blenkinsopthebrave can help with the broadcast details down under, there’s not a lot of info out and about yet re times etc tho 7.30 (GMT) is rumoured. I’d assume you colonials will also get a cinema release. Again, I’ve not seen any details – harrass your local cinema!
PS I now have to mop of my keyboard after your comment on crazy captions 31
14 October 2013 at 22:57 #18530Orphan Black
@bluesqueakpip Definitely mark it down for catching up on in the future. Agree, Agents is fun.
@Shazzbot
Isn’t it amazing when an actress comes of out practically nowhere and nails a multiple role like that?
Can’t think of it having happened that often (didn’t see United States of Tara). Tatiana Maslany is seriously impressive, especially when she’s being one clone pretending to be another. She convinces us to like and care about Sarah, when our introduction to her, and some of the things she’s done since (esp in the consequences for Vic), she’s not always the most sympathetic/likeable character. The central character is usually the moral highground, and the jury’s definitely still out on that re Sarah. I like 🙂
14 October 2013 at 21:55 #18527If @jimthefish is up for it I think that’s a great idea. Look forward to it. Maybe others could contribute as well (in interests of democracy 🙂 Maybe by submitting suggestions to JtF? ) There’s a long time of nothing happening between Xmas and next Sept 🙁
14 October 2013 at 20:43 #18521Still having problems with iplayer – downloaded the new app, which kind of works, but only 1 prog at a time (not series). The original player meantime keeps telling me it’s deleted Name of the Dr, which it never downloaded in the first place. Argh! OTOH it’s now managed to get the hang of downloading Orphan Black which is now at episode 5.
No-one else watching it? @bluesqueakpip? I’m seriously impressed with it so far
14 October 2013 at 20:19 #18518Aw, boo, I seem to have missed all the fun 😛
BUT I did finally track down my original post with Moffat talking about being impressed by Day of the Daleks (for info the search engine works fine, my problem was narrowing down the search terms – went all the way back to #171 (2 Jan!!). And difficult to avoid being sidetracked, LOL).
It’s very short, but interesting as he talks about it being possibly the first time the show uses time travel in quite this way and the get-out clause of the Doctor being able to change things when he’s not part of the history (the participants can’t).
14 October 2013 at 20:11 #18517Oops
Thought I was in the wrong place for a minute 😎
I really like the pic of Matt, and I have to admit it works really well there, but am I allowed to say I miss the TARDIS notice, just a little bit? (had a nice generic feel of all the Doctors)
I also like the new, improved copyright notice (good idea). Small typo – “expressed” should be “express” (which means specific (to each occasion) rather than just stated). Sorry if I’m catching pedantism – I blame @Shazzbot and @pedant 😉
PS If you want us to contribute to your red wine stash, just say – it obviously works wonders 😀
14 October 2013 at 13:52 #18472@mtvcatfishuk Dunno about relationships, but I have a sneaking suspicion that most people on this forum may not look like their avatars 😉 (I of course am most definitely a 6ft+ furry robotic monster 😀 Or a stone statue – depending if you’re blinking or not)
14 October 2013 at 13:48 #18471Just adding my agreement with the general approval re the website revamp. That bottle of wine worked well @craig
14 October 2013 at 07:23 #18451Just for info – iTunes charts – Web of Fear and Enemy are currently no 1 and no 2 in TV Series charts (above Breaking Bad, Homeland, Downton and Arsenal FC)
😀
(Been there since at least Sunday – sorry can’t do the screen grab)
14 October 2013 at 07:01 #18450If we were to combine all the bonkers theories about the anniversary special, and ironed out all the contradictions, we would have enough material for the next series at least. Maybe the next 50 years even, with a few filler episodes.
Haha, loved that. Very true
And welcome to @hudsey Great first post. Agree, and it’s been suggested a few times, that the documentary filming could be perfect cover for filming BG Dr lookalikes
*and jumps up and down excitedly, claiming credit for spotting Moffat saying DotD is his fave episode* (I posted the link on here somewhere, ages ago, I’ll try to find it (amongst my 2m posts haha))
14 October 2013 at 06:40 #18449@fatmaninabox (good to see you’re keeping yourself busy!!)
Re the Alex Kingston link (and thanks for posting) – good to see she’s getting some fanlove, but what made me most excited is towards the end of her thank-you vid she more than hints that River is coming back
Re the found episodes – they’ve reported they’ve found 11 episodes (Enemy of the World and Web of Fear), but 2 of those weren’t missing (#3 of Enemy and #1 of Web). #3 of Web is still missing but there’s a recon of that epi with audio and still photos. Both serials are 6 episodes long. (and as @Shazzbot says you get added trailers with itunes 😉
Re THE trailer “The Moff’ says it’s far to early to screen NoTD trailer” (I presume you mean DotD rather than NotD? 😉 ) – I suspect the following:
1- they KNOW it’ll be freeze-framed to within an inch of its life and examined pixel by pixel for clues so maybe don’t want to give too much time for that
2. it’s not finished yet!!
3. Moffat’s a tease and is enjoying winding us all up!
(Amount of spoilers in it will depend who’s making the trailer – I think it’s usually marketing/promo dept but I did hear (on here?) that this one’s being done by the production team)
13 October 2013 at 15:22 #18422I do like the sidebar, as I said, and I miss it being longer.
How about moving Blogs to the main part of the homepage, with its own icon, so it gets a bit more emphasis. That links to a page which has links to the individual blogs, in whatever order you want to put them, You could then delete the Recent Blogs bit from the sidebar, leaving just the Recent Blog Comments
The intro on the Homepage could inc something like – Blogs include… (add titles of a selection). Or if it’s not too much trouble to update when a new blog is posted, include the titles of the most recent 3 Blogs
13 October 2013 at 13:36 #18404I like the sidebar. But I could relearn 😉
I like the links to SM Retrospective and BG Episodes on the Home page – I don’t have to scroll down forever on my phone (usually hitting the wrong bit of my phone at least once, and necessitating a restart).
13 October 2013 at 13:31 #18403Agree the Beeb’s communications re DW have been a bit on the murky side recently – and Worldwide’s comment (reported by @craig) re “well you should’ve watched them when they first came out!” was insensitive to put it mildly. But there could be a lot of stuff ongoing under the surface/behind the scenes that we don’t know about. I think we just have to keep the faith and be patient.
Agree with @bluesqueakpip that the Publicity Dept probably don’t have the full story either. Everyone else is being very cautious – the recent denials usually went along the lines of “There’s been no episodes found in Ethiopia”. Which according to the info now released, is strictly speaking, quite true.
And with @Shazzbot – congrats on giving up the weed. We’ll put up with Mr Kranky Pants for a whle, LOL
13 October 2013 at 13:15 #18402Not much to add that hasn’t already been said except to agree with all the recent posts. It’s a story which was gobsmacking at the time and grows with repeated viewings. I love how it switches perspectives and the end reveal has you rethinking the whole story – and with a massive emotional punch. (I love it also for being the starting point for my now defunct dalekised Doctor theory!)
Oswin’s ‘hiding place’ being an enlarged interior of a Dalek – complete with controls for the mutant inside
I missed that completely. Spot on.
And those extra minutes make a massive difference.
11 October 2013 at 15:43 #18266And to be fair who isn’t today feeling a little thrill of pride at seeing Troughton on the front pages of a great many newspapers and websites?
Absolutely 🙂
Also laughed at this apology from Northern Echo for breaking the embargo (online for 20 mins and far and away their hottest article)
http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/10732135.Dr_Who___an_apology/
Hopefully by maximising publicity (inc outwith fandom) they might just send a few more folk scurrying into their attics to see if they can unearth some DW “gold”. The more I hear about the search that uncovered these new ones the more gobsmacked I become. Gathering dust on a shelf in a TV relay station “somewhere in Nigeria” (when they were originally sent to Hong Kong) nearly 50 years after they were exported… just WOW. The search for the Key to Time was a walk in the park compared to this!
11 October 2013 at 14:51 #18263Also this annoncement, for those of us near the northern capital, Edinburgh’s Filmhouse says it’s teamed up with the BFI and is screening a “once lost 60s episode of Dr Who” at beginning of December
http://www.filmhousecinema.com/news/view/378/missing-believed-wiped/
Ah, now if only someone would track down the missing Francie & Josie episodes – that would really be a cause for celebration!
11 October 2013 at 14:46 #18262As someone mentioned above – we don’t have the full story on this. I can be as ARSEy as the best of em (see responses to @jimthefish‘s blog rant) but I’m actually fairly sympathetic on the missing/(now found!!) stories. BBC’s iplayer couldn’t handle the demand and itunes is probably the biggest worldwide platform (and that’s from someone who’s not a big itunes fan)
There are 4 episodes currently in itunes top 10 (TV shows) – again that’s an international platform.
The youtube trailers are on 13,000 and 16,000 views.
By putting an embargo on letting the story out in the press they made sure it’s on Sky, front page of the Mirror (and several other papers I believe) and all the main UK media cover it as a major news story.
As @bluesqueakpip mentioned there must have been a fair amount of cash involved just to make this happen, which has to be justified to the BBC licence payers). Ian Levine for example, claims he spent £500/episode back in the 70s.
And it’s worth comparing the new clips to what we had before in terms of quality – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YujVrvA3GMY
I came across a clip where they showed the found episodes with the remastered version side by side with the state it was in when they found it, which was illuminating… but I can’t find it now). There’s been a lot of work gone into restoring these. For all they were in “good condition considering” they were still dusty, scratchy, the film was fragile.
@jimthefish and other Target readers – I understand the gap between your imaginations and what was technically possible in 60s TV, but at least with these you can compare it with the closest possible to what actually went out, albeit from an older person perspective. This is top quality Dr Who – Web was directed by Camfield – if you don’t like it at least you know you’ve given it a fair chance.
@thommck – re adding Clara into the episodes – LMAO – was just thinking about that
11 October 2013 at 14:15 #18260PM me if you want copies, happy to share 😉
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