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29 November 2015 at 14:44 #48204
Best review I have read of “Heaven Sent”: The Doctor is all alone in a perfect episode
29 November 2015 at 14:44 #48203Wouldn’t the Time Lords have been aware of the Doctor’s regenerations via “The Time of the Doctor” … with Clara talking to them through the Crack in Time, and them subsequently gifting the Doctor with an entirely new set of regenerations?
29 November 2015 at 05:54 #48164One of the shots from the first trailer shows a soldier who looks a lot like Danny. I don’t believe that it’s him, but it reminded me of his last heartbreaking Cyberman moments with Clara.
29 November 2015 at 05:44 #48161@puroandson Ah, your theory about it being the same coat all the way through (but looking darker at some points because of lighting/moisture) makes sense! Thank you. My brain hurts a little less now. These are the things that hang me up, while meanwhile a great story is unfolding.
By the way, husband and I watched The Secret Agent tonight prior to our Doctor Who outing. It was quite wonderful to see a much younger Capaldi shine in a different (and rather sinister) role.
29 November 2015 at 05:22 #48153Wow. Just wow. Husband and I were blown away by this episode. Amazing writing on the part of Moffat, and getting his head around the big picture. We viewers have taken the long way around, too … and I like that. Not billions of years, of course. But I thought the story arc would return to Gallifrey long before it did.
So, my poor little linear-trapped mind cannot quite work out how the Doctor arrived wearing the dark red coat, but then is seen midway through the episode taking off his dark magician’s coat with the red lining and putting the red one on. I get that there’s something very timey-wimey going on, but I will never figure that out on my own. Small words, big pictures, please!
@lisa @puroandson @countscarlioni I too thought of the raven when I saw “bird” written out.
28 November 2015 at 03:25 #48007@puroandson
I am on my PS which I can do on Saturdays but not Sundays. Sundays I go to church which I have to say I don’t like at all. Other people bring their ipads and ipods but I don’t. I figure its one or the other. Dad insists I should go to church but mum never does. Still they seem good that way. People say “wheres your mum?” I say “none of your business”
And good for you. My dad took my sister and me to church when we were little. Mom didn’t come because she didn’t believe in it. That changed (sort of) later. But I can’t recall if people asked me where my mom was. If they had, I wish I’d had the presence of mind to come up with your answer. I’m sure yours is far, far better than anything I would have come up with.
27 November 2015 at 15:55 #47985@puroandson I couldn’t make out the design of the shirt, which is part of why I questioned whether it was some sort of material that got splattered on his shirt, or an actual printed design. But I think it is indeed printed on there.
27 November 2015 at 04:44 #47972@ichabod My eyesight was never as bad as yours, I think. Not till I developed very fast-growing cataracts, that is. I was nearly blind in my left eye as my husband drove me to the surgery. My right eye (the dominant one; my left is a “lazy” eye) was never quite that bad, but it was getting there by the time I had surgery on it a few months later. The funny thing is, it reversed what has been my eyesight deficit for most of my life. I was nearsighted until the surgery. Since having surgery, I am farsighted; I can see very well without glasses at middle and long distance, but need glasses for closeup reading. Years later, I’m still getting used to that!
27 November 2015 at 04:33 #47970@carrieanne We’ve had discussions about the order of the Doctor’s wardrobe changes (and their possible timey-wimey relevance) over in the “Face the Raven” episode thread, as well, so I’ll repost what I posted there, just to tie in with your comment. Here’s my very simplistic take on the Doctor’s attire this season:
Dark red coat, white dress shirt – Episode 2, “The Witch’s Familiar” (black-and-white prologue with Missy describing to Clara an event from the Doctor’s past); Episode 10, “Face the Raven”
Dark jacket with red lining, dark hoodie sweater, dark pointelle/openwork knit sweater, dark pants (solid or pattern?) – Episode 1, “The Magician’s Apprentice” (opening scene with young Davros); Episodes 3-4, “Under the Lake”/”After the Flood”; Episodes 7-8, “The Zygon Invasion”/”The Zygon Inversion”; Episode 9, “Sleep No More”
Dark jacket with red lining, dark hoodie sweater, dark pointelle/openwork knit sweater, dark pants with plaid pattern – Episode 6, “The Woman Who Lived” (dark plaid pants are definitely in his closing scene with Clara, the only one in which she appears; hard to tell from the rest of the episode if the Doctor’s pants are a solid dark, or have that same plaid pattern)
Dark jacket with red lining, dark hoodie sweater, white T-shirt, dark pants with plaid pattern – Episode 1, “The Magician’s Apprentice” (after opening scene with young Davros); Episode 2, “The Witch’s Familiar” (including closing scene when the Doctor returns to young Davros); Episode 5, “The Girl Who Died”
Dark jacket with red lining, dark hoodie sweater, black T-shirt, dark pants – Here’s the one sort of odd anomaly; this T-shirt appears only in the opening scene of “Face the Raven” and looks to have some sort of red and grayish pattern on the front. Is it something that got splashed on him (their clothes are filthy from whatever they just escaped from), or a pattern printed on the T-shirt? Significance?
One other detail: The Doctor’s hair is noticeably longer in “The Woman Who Lived” and “The Zygon Invasion/Inversion” than in the rest of the episodes. Bad continuity with Capaldi’s hairdresser, or more significant than that? Something to do with “remembering in the wrong direction”?
Now, you brighter folks who are less trapped by a linear mind than I … make of that what you will.
27 November 2015 at 01:44 #47961Although the text has been hitting us over the head with Clara becoming Doctor-ish as a bit of a problem, I don’t think the fault, if there is fault, for her death (if it is her death) lies with her.
She managed to persuade three incarnations of the Doctor not to press the big red button and commit genocide on a planetary scale. She changed the history of the Time War and she knows it. If, as a result, this particular companion has an assessment of her capabilities which one might call reckless, it’s hardly surprising.
True. Also, Clara (and/or her Claricles) have always been able to save the Doctor. At the very least, this Clara knows she did in “The Time of the Doctor” by peering into the crack and begging the Time Lords to save the Doctor. I don’t think there’s any doubt in her mind that her intervention played a role in the Doctor getting his new regeneration cycle. Her knowledge of that power, combined with the Doctor’s generally good track record of “fixing” things for those he cares about, would, I think, inflate Clara’s sense of invulnerability.
26 November 2015 at 14:20 #47927In my “pants” post (@frobisher yes, it is a funny reference), I should have typed Episode 6 (not 5) here:
Dark jacket with red lining, dark hoodie sweater, dark pointelle/openwork knit sweater, dark pants with plaid pattern – Episode 6, “The Woman Who Lived” (dark plaid pants are definitely in his closing scene with Clara, the only one in which she appears; hard to tell from the rest of the episode if the Doctor’s pants are a solid dark, or have that same plaid pattern)
26 November 2015 at 13:33 #47924@puroandson Thanks, I was picking up on an idea posted by others (@bendubz11, @frobisher, @bobbyfat, @starla, etc.), so it’s hardly an original thought. I just decided to go through each episode and see what of the Doctor’s wardrobe I could see. But whoa, I should have given my post more of a read before hitting the “submit” button. Several typos and words left out! (I have a bad habit of doing that. I can’t think of the word I’m looking for, so I keep going, thinking I will come back and insert the word after I recall. And then I forget to do it!)
26 November 2015 at 04:46 #47907Wonderful observations, @jphamlore and @puroandson. Continuing on in the “soul” vein (I haven’t yet made up my mind as to whether Ashildr/Mayor Me’s comment was meant to be taken literally or figuratively), the Doctor did go ballistic in a previous episode, with regard to not allowing people their natural deaths. I believe that was part of his rant to the Fisher King in “Before the Flood” … correct?
26 November 2015 at 04:28 #47903OK, thanks to @lisa I was able to do a bit of reviewing and come up with at least some support for the “pants” theory. Now, the difficulty is that this Doctor is so often shot from above the waist, and even when we see a full view of the Doctor, sometimes the lighting is so dim that it’s hard to get the details of the pants he is wearing. However, here’s my very simplistic on the Doctor’s attire this season:
Dark red coat, white dress shirt – Episode 2, “The Witch’s Familiar” (black-and-white prologue with Missy describing to Clara an event from the Doctor’s past); Episode 10, “Face the Raven”
Dark jacket with red lining, dark hoodie sweater, dark pointelle/openwork knit sweater, dark pants (solid or pattern?) –Episode 1, “The Magician’s Apprentice” (opening scene with young Davros); Episodes 3-4, “Under the Lake”/”After the Flood”; Episodes 7-8, “The Zygon Invasion”/”The Zygon Inversion”; Episode 9, “Sleep No More”
Dark jacket with red lining, dark hoodie sweater, dark pointelle/openwork knit sweater, dark pants with plaid pattern –Episode 5, “The Woman Who Lived” (dark plaid pants are definitely in his closing scene with Clara, the only one in which she appears; hard to tell from the rest of the episode if the Doctor’s pants are a solid dark, or have that same plaid pattern)
Dark jacket with red lining, dark hoodie sweater, white T-shirt, dark pants with plaid pattern – Episode 1, “The Magician’s Apprentice” (after opening scene with young Davros); Episode 2, “The Witch’s Familiar” (including closing scene when the Doctor returns to young Davros); Episode 5, “The Girl Who Died”
Dark jacket with red lining, dark hoodie sweater, black T-shirt, dark pants – Here’s the one sort of odd anomaly; this T-shirt appears only in the opening scene of “Face the Raven” and looks to have some sort of red and grayish pattern on the front. Is it something that got splashed on him (their clothes are filthy from whatever they just escaped from), or a pattern printed on the T-shirt? Significance?
One other detail: The Doctor’s hair is noticeably longer in “The Woman Who Lived” and “The Zygon Inversion/Invasion” than in the rest of the episodes. Bad continuity with Capaldi’s hairdresser, or more significant than that? Something to do with “remembering in the wrong direction”?
Now, you brighter folks who are less trapped by a linear mind than I … make of that what you will.
26 November 2015 at 03:44 #4789926 November 2015 at 02:31 #47895Then you’re welcome, LOL!
26 November 2015 at 02:28 #47893Oops, sorry about the misattribution!
26 November 2015 at 02:25 #47891Well, drat. Unbeknownst to me, hubby has deleted our earliest TVR recordings of this season, so I can’t test out @bendubz11‘s pants theory. Feeling rather annoyed right now, as I was looking forward to revisiting those episodes.
25 November 2015 at 16:44 #4783825 November 2015 at 16:44 #47837@puroandson Welcome back, puro and son! Thinking back to my childhood many, many moons ago, the show that terrified me was The Outer Limits. It was a “monster of the week” show … very much in an X-Files vein, except without Mulder and Scully, of course. For whatever reason my parents didn’t feel a need to censor my viewing of that show, even though it left me not with nightmares, but weeks on end of nearly sleepless nights. So I try to imagine what Doctor Who would have done to me. I would probably have been left in a permanently sleep-deprived state!
24 November 2015 at 18:02 #47750Thanks, @fatmaninabox! Now, if only there were a way to delete that extra “Girl Who Died” from my list (fifth from the bottom).
24 November 2015 at 17:23 #47737Thanks, @bendubz11. For folks like myself who rely heavily on visuals to process information, it really helps to have the order you’re proposing laid out! I may just watch the episodes in that order (minus the ones that haven’t aired yet) to see if it makes sense. Like you, I think “Sleep No More” might actually slot in before the “Invasion” episode.
24 November 2015 at 16:50 #47734Oops, sorry, I got “The Girl Who Died” in there twice. I meant to have it there at the end only (if I interpret your timeline correctly, @bendubz11).
24 November 2015 at 16:36 #47732@bendubz
The only other episode in which she is referred to as Me is Woman, and we don’t have Clara in it, making CapDoc the only source, and probably meaning it is probably current CapDoc.
Except that Clara does appear at the end of this episode, correct? So are you saying that ending is really linked to an entirely different time frame, not in the immediate aftermath of “The Woman Who Lived”?
OK, so I got a bit confused by the comments at the end of your post. Are you saying this is the order you think the Doctor is experiencing events?
The Woman Who LIved
Face the Raven
Heaven Sent
Hell Bent
The Magician’s Apprentice
The Witch’s Familiar
Under the Lake
Before the Flood
The Girl Who Died
The Zygon Invasion
The Zygon Inversion
Sleep No More
The Girl Who Died24 November 2015 at 15:50 #47729@pedant Thank you for that reflection on your own experience, providing more info on Crohn’s and updating us on Melissa’s state of mind. It sounds like the side-effects from her medication are dreadful. Depression is a monster, eroding self-perception and stealing optimism and belief in one’s own good. I hope that she will come to realize and accept the truth of our love.
24 November 2015 at 15:35 #47724Ouch, I haven’t even had my morning coffee yet, LOL!
24 November 2015 at 15:25 #47721I haven’t given too much thought to the order of episodes from The Doctor’s point of view but I suspect that The Girl Who Died took/takes place after the events in the final episode.
Except that in “Face the Raven” Clara remembers meeting Ashildr (which happened in “The Girl Who Died”). So that doesn’t make sense to me.
23 November 2015 at 19:20 #47657As for the question of why the Doctor didn’t offer to take the quantum shade, my interpretation of “The Rules” was that the obligation could only be given away once, not passed around like a hot potato. Just a thought.
I agree. Also, the sense I got was that there’s a set chronology in which things can happen:
- Ashildr/Mayor Me can remove the chronolock.
- If Mayor Me refuses, then the individual afflicted with the chronolock can pass it on to one other individual, but that second individual must willingly request and accept it. At this point, the first individual has changed the rules of the contract under which Mayor Me is bound, meaning that Mayor Me can no longer intervene. That was Clara’s fatal mistake, not realizing there was a contract (complete with fine print) binding Mayor Me to the Quantum Shade. Clara thought she had Mayor Me’s absolute protection, but there was nothing Mayor Me could do once Clara changed the rules of the game.
23 November 2015 at 19:03 #47655@mersey Thanks for that link to the Radio Times interview! Reading it, I’m amazed the 50th anniversary special turned out so spectacularly well. Not because of the talent involved; there’s no question there. But because it all seemed to come together at rather the last moment. I figured this had been in the works for years!
23 November 2015 at 18:20 #47646@sirclockface Thanks for these video links! I confess that I worry we are looking toward a time when the Doctor travels without a companion. I have no idea if that’s the case, but if it is, then those tend to be my lest-favorite episodes. I enjoy it when the Doctor’s personality bounces off that of his human companions. We’ll just have to wait and see what’s in the cards for this Doctor.
23 November 2015 at 18:02 #47642Just spotted this video (non-spoilery for future events, but spoilery for anyone who hasn’t yet watched this episode) on the Tube, in which Moffat explains the inevitability of Clara’s death: Death & Consequences – Face The Raven – Doctor Who Series 9
23 November 2015 at 17:48 #47641@jphamlore You make some very good points about Clara missing what the Doctor truly needed from her. But I think there are two distinct elements to Clara, as we know her, which may have kept her from fully understanding this:
- She and the Claricles (or maybe she too is Claricle; dunno) were meant to save the Doctor. Surely this must have resonated throughout her subconscious, at the very least. What is it we often do to protect someone we care about? We hide the truth from them, in the mistaken notion that we are saving them from pain. But I think ultimately the reason we do this is because we, ourselves, can’t handle their pain … so we avoid it. Is that the right thing to do? Of course not. But it’s very human.
- In that vein, perhaps Clara succumbed to one of the most human of all traits … the need for approval. What do we do when seeking the approval of someone we admire? We emulate them, in the mistaken notion that this is how we win their approval (when usually it’s the last thing that person wants or needs).
23 November 2015 at 17:22 #47634@jphamlore One could also argue that traveling with the Doctor for such a long time, longer than any of the other companions, damaged Clara irrevocably. The traveling process had eroded her sense of what it means to be human and to live, and then Danny’s death snapped that tether altogether. The Doctor, as Clara noted, gave her a reason for being. But it’s not really living in the fullest sense that humans are meant to live. Clara was living the ultimate escapist’s dream … experiences charged with non-stop thrills and stimulation, but not without consequences.
Living a companion’s life for so long changed Clara’s perspective, and I think it makes sense that by this time she would have flawed reasoning, viewing herself so often not through a human lens but an alien one. So it seems this (or something much like it) was the inevitable outcome. To avoid it Clara would have had to reject an ongoing life with the Doctor … and that’s something she refused to do. Maybe that’s why she embraced death. She was finally acknowledging what her choices had led her to, and opening her arms to the final reality of what it means to be human.
@blenkinsopthebrave I like your analysis of Capaldi’s Doctor and how he is, as you point out, starting all over again. I’ll keep that in mind as I continue watching.
23 November 2015 at 17:05 #47630Capaldi’s Doctor seems more alien, less human-like than his new-era predecessors. He reminds me somewhat of Eccleston’s Doctor, but without the spontaneous bursts of joie de vivre that he, and also the Tennant and Smith Doctors, exhibited. So, even with nearly two seasons under our collective belt, I do still find it difficult to get a firm grasp on who he is. He seems almost reptilian at points … though I know that’s an odd way to describe someone’s demeanor. But that’s the word that first come to mind, for me.
23 November 2015 at 15:05 #47625In fact, if he accepts Clara’s “order” that he not take revenge on whoever set this up, that leaves him no one to take revenge on but himself. She should have thought of that, but under the circumstances . . .
I think she did think of that. When he asked her what the point of being a Doctor was, if he couldn’t heal her, Clara replied, “Heal yourself.”
23 November 2015 at 06:08 #47591Dearest Puro/Melissa,
Thank you for this explanation and apology to Geronimo/Daphne. Heartbroken for you is all I can say. How I will miss your eloquent observations and reflections on the Doctor’s not-so-aimless wanderings. Through you and others here I have learned so much about this beloved show … but even more importantly about humankind. If it means anything, I hold you in my heart right now.
I also understand that you need to do what you need to do at this time. And I respect that.
Nerys/Sue
23 November 2015 at 05:55 #47590It’s funny. I loved Eccleston and Tennant as the Doctor, and really couldn’t imagine anyone topping Tennant. So I stayed away from Matt Smith’s Doctor for his first entire season. Then, at some point I started watching again, and was kicking myself for missing out because I really enjoyed his uniquely manic take on the Doctor every bit as much as his predecessors. As others have noted, he had an amazing ability to convey ancient wisdom in a young face. And then his relationship with Amy and Rory was extraordinary. On top of that, he was our Doctor during the 50th anniversary of Doctor Who, and of course we got all kinds of goodies associated with that.
Once we got Netflix, I made sure I got caught up with all of Smith’s episodes. I did feel a bit of trepidation prior to Capaldi’s Doctor, but then he and Jenna Coleman’s Clara clicked in a way that just didn’t quite happen with Smith’s Doctor (other than “The Day of the Doctor”). So gradually he too grew on me.
My biggest reaction to regeneration, going from Tennant to Smith, was denial.
23 November 2015 at 05:06 #47586Also when the raven entered Clara’s body, there was an intense light. There was no such light when the street person died.
Thanks to your pointing this out, I made a point of looking for this on tonight’s rewatch and saw it, as well. I’m hoping it’s significant … much like the blue light was significant before Missy was supposedly vaporized (but we later learned that she had transported herself).
@sirclockface I too noticed Clara’s and the Doctor’s wardrobe change, from the opening scene to when they met up with Rigsy. I was puzzled as to why they would have changed clothes, or even when they would have had time to do so. I wonder what significance, if any, there is to this detail.
22 November 2015 at 15:56 #47516@iusedtobethedoctor I don’t think Ashildr is meant to be likable. She was so young when the Doctor made her immortal that she hadn’t yet developed the emotional maturity of an adult. I think that shows in the choices she has made. She has enough certitude that she is right, that she is willing to be judge, jury and executioner of her little street community. She was angry enough with the Doctor to enter into a contract to lure him in, without considering the potential ramifications. It’s good that she at least seemed to feel remorse over the path her actions set in motion.
As for the episode itself, I’m still processing my thoughts on that. Like others, I think there may be some smaller, more upbeat ending for Clara. I hope so, anyway. I don’t mean a “happy” ending. But something with a little more hope. Though it may be that the theme of Clara’s story arc is, “Travel too long with the doctor … at your own peril.”
Hubby refuses to watch scenes for next week, so he missed the after-the-credits scene of Rigsby’s graffiti art on the TARDIS. I do wish they had positioned that differently, pre-credits, for folks who don’t like spoilers. It was an important detail, and a wonderfully poignant ending scene.
20 November 2015 at 14:22 #4733920 November 2015 at 14:18 #47338You know, I had forgotten this little detail of it being set in 2016. At the time, I didn’t think much of it … but then, I didn’t know what was going to happen to Danny. Then again, do we know what year we’re supposed to be in currently? I’m never sure if we’re to consider this “present time” or not. This is a time-traveling Doctor, after all. I don’t have any answers. Anyone else?
20 November 2015 at 02:32 #47314I never “hated” Clara. In fact, I struggle to think of any fictional TV/film character I have hated and can’t come up with one. I did realize that if I knew her in real life, Clara would be someone who’d probably annoy me. But I also understand that TV characters tend to be written very differently from the way most of us are in real life. So I have always had a problem when people say they “hate” thus-and-such character on TV.
With Clara, I did find the character underutilized early on (especially after the great introduction we got to Oswin in “Asylum of the Daleks”). In the beginning Clara seemed like an anemic character, by comparison. But I felt she really came into her own during Season 8, and I have enjoyed her even more this season, in part because of the knowledge that this will be her last. So the suspense and anticipation of seeing how it will be resolved lends even more weight to this season’s episodes.
19 November 2015 at 16:30 #47293What does “pants” even mean? (I know the general meaning. I mean in context with some sort of criticism.) Is it that you drop your pants to take a poo? Underpants? What?
17 November 2015 at 05:25 #47171Something my husband worked out, which I didn’t, is that Clara figures out how to open the Morpheus pod. She does a hand gesture to her face, indicating to the Doctor (we think) that’ she’s not just a pretty face. There’s a brain up there, too. (Then there’s a distraction before she is pulled into the pod.) Nice bit of humor in this episode!
16 November 2015 at 17:55 #47123@drben Gotta love your description of them as “eye-booger monsters,” LOL! I’m curious as to why the ending made no sense to you. I think it did to me … but then I may just be imagining that. From what I can tell, the Doctor was able to save only himself and Clara (I don’t think Nagata made it into the Tardiss with them). And then we return to Rasmussen, who has been an unreliable narrator. He reveals to us that the whole point of assembling this video footage was not to warn viewers, but to ensnare them via the video. And then his face dissolves as the sand crumbles away. I thought it was a wonderfully creepy ending.
16 November 2015 at 17:33 #47120I also think the Doctor’s observation that this was playing out “like a story” is important. Ashildr?
16 November 2015 at 14:33 #47109I enjoyed this one. But then again, I tend to enjoy the more unsettling ones that don’t have a predictable narrative flow. I felt after this episode much like I did after watching “Blink.” I don’t mean to say that the episodes are identical, or even all that similar in content or style. But I had that same “What did I just watch?” feeling after both episodes.
15 November 2015 at 22:28 #47025I’d missed the ‘Doctor Who’ in the coding. @doctordoctorwho spotted that; excellent catch!
Thanks for that correction. Excellent catch, indeed!
As for the episode itself, I enjoyed it. It made a lot more sense on second viewing. Of course, for me first viewing wasn’t ideal. I worked all day, while hubby cooked dinner for guests coming over. So then we all enjoyed a lovely meal, with lots of beverages, and after our guests left I tackled several sink-loads of dishes, while hubby enjoyed some “brain pudding”-style TV viewing. By the time I got around to watching Doctor Who, it was past midnight, and the many beverages were taking their toll.
So this episode didn’t make loads of sense to me when I first watched it. But on this afternoon’s second viewing, the narrative flow came together a whole lot better for me. Quite creepy … and it would have terrified me as a child! (Believe it or not, I managed to sleep quite well after watching it the first time, despite the theme. I think the beverages played a role here!)
15 November 2015 at 18:35 #47009@countscarlioni Right away I spotted Clara’s name listed in the downloaded names at the beginning, but I didn’t catch “Doctor Who” (shown horizontally, intersecting with Clara’s name) till my second viewing. And even then I had to hit “pause” to really see it. Good catch!
15 November 2015 at 17:28 #47005@margaret-blaine I too believe that since “The Witch’s Familiar” Clara has remained trapped in the Dalek, and that we would come back full circle to her “Asylum of the Daleks” incarnation. But I hadn’t worked out exactly how. You’ve come up with a beautiful theory. Bravo!
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