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A few ideas popped into my head after watching The Woman Who Fell To Earth.

I know people think Rise Against is too much like Minor Threat but still….the episode highlighted war, trophies, injustice, fair play, authenticity and loyalty.

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@rorysmith

The worst part was how they very specifically pushed the female agenda. This is sad because it feels artificial and pushy

You mean the advertisements were pushy? In Oz, at least, we have no ads (as yet) on ABC. This was up on site at the same time as UK viewers watched it and without ads is SO much better 🙂

I’m in love with this episode. I enjoyed Grace – in its many forms: in a name; on the lips of the dying; in a legend written across galaxies; in a grandson who straddles a bicycle, rides it, falls, falls once more, clenches teeth and tries again. Teeth – evidence or aspect of which remains after death as a reminder of lost souls. For every tooth, a person with a brother waiting to know ‘why?’

A reminder of people playing with lives across our planet, tribal warfare or foolish games, gathering trophies in the twilight of their years, repelled by love, scornful of pity, parasitically dependent on ‘likes’, demanding tributes and furious when others are happy, cynical in the face of bravery, walking away, but never to, begging for chances but never giving one.

To me, it captured the Doctor’s constant reminder, over 50 years to “be better, fairer, kinder.”

All of the key Doctor elements were right there. ‘Good men don’t need rules, today is not a good day to find out why I have so many’ and ‘no plan, no backup, no weapons and nothing to lose.’ As well as my personal favourite, with the gender swapped, ‘I’m a mad-woman with a box, without a box!’

Someone ought to tell Dan Martin that.

Score 1 for Chibnall.

Kindest, Puro.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 9 months ago by  syzygy. Reason: loads and loads of code appeared!

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@fatmaninabox  -on the other thread…I was crying-laughing. But not REAL laughing because my computer is obstreperous. Shutting it down works occasionally which annoys me (Thane in particular).

Just to say a quick hello to all newbies & oldies as well & hoping to see @arbutus on these pages soon.

I actually loved the episode. The tremendous build up was paced perfectly & the characters -in particular granddad Graham and Grace were very nicely put together. As were Yaz and Ryan. Agreed Mr FatMan, she reminds me of Paul Abbots No Offence too.  I thought the suspense was terrific.

I was in it from the get-go. But I’ll avoid any Daily Mail, TV week reviews. 🙂

Thane and Puro

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hee-wheey  (timey whimey whee-hay).

Loving IT! The beginning, the bike, was awesome. The golden-thing looked exactly like my portable clothesline, which, when you move it, falls apart.

The Golden Clothesline.

Good to see all the regulars back.

She’s terrific, aint she?

Puro.

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@pedant

A little nudge from some birds (possibly Osprey) told me Mr P has a birthday! And on the same day as the New Doctor. Hooray& and hip hip; hip hip…..

(LOL, I’ trying to keep up….      😉

Puro and Thane.

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@pedant

That’s awful for your dad, Mr P. It would’ve been painful to go through & also to watch. Awful.

And I didn’t explain myself well.  It was sufficient evidence of my own foolishness.

The aspirin issue was my own fault. Had I been a normal patient without the susceptibility to nasty ulcers, nurofen would’ve been fine. Had I actually read the label I wouldn’t have been in a pickle as I wouldn’t have swallowed it.

Everybody else does fine: taking 2 tablets. Even more dumb? I took 3.

That’s evidence of something else: Thinking I’m somehow immune to ulcerative gut syndrome when I have Crohns

Puro.

 

• This reply was modified 7 years, 10 months ago by  syzygy. Reason: adding impt information, losing 'ouch' & remembering evidence of my own foolishness

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@pedant @mudlark

Yes Mudlark I feel that’s important -she chose to stay away from watching them all. Or at least the more recent incarnations.

I agree, he was. A lot of people loved him. I have to say I was one. A bit later, perhaps in repeats I found him a tad irritating but then, knowing Tennant, this was exactly the personality of Ten’s Doctor he wanted to capture. There was that frantic talking, a tps of arrogance, a tbs of urges……Elizabeth 1st and the wonderful Madame DePomp. etc. I remember that huuuge Children in Need concert, turning on the Christmas lights in Wales, and DVD sales shot up magically with RTD. Some episodes weren’t my thing, others, like many with Donna, were. So, all in all, it’s easy sometimes for me to say “didn’t much like Tennant” when that’s totally false. Thane and I were both smitten.

Smith on the other hand was just more convincing -personally -and there was a ‘fantastic’ quality to this that captured what I needed to see at that time.

Puro.

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@mudlark

Yes exactly. The tiny amount given in these preparations wouldn’t ease one toothache.  Statins = tummy aches in many.

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@bambi70006

My childhood goal was to be Queen of England until my mother explained to me how that works.

LOL! Welcome Nancy: it’s good to see another American joining this bunch.

A retired surgical nurse? Admiration is oozing. It’s not an easy job at all, is it?

I watched The Crown too -I think I’m in the middle of it 😉  Timey-whimey.

There are quite a few shows, here in Oz, that are tempting on Netflix & the ABC so it’s easy to get behind. I think if people, for whatever reason, don’t like Doctor Who or it’s no longer ‘their thing’ there are so many other options.

Btw, I’m terrible with commas & whilst I’ve had to write in my varying jobs, making music was by far the easiest thing to do -or less challenging (for me), than chewing my lead pencil trying to create an eloquent sentence.

On the Forum, I’ve found some fantastic people who have become best friends. I’ve also learnt from them; a couple in particular, taught me how to frame a sentence, to think more clearly, to stop second guessing myself & also to trust.

I hope you have a terrific time here enjoying your adventure into the remainder of Dr Smith’s episodes & Peter Capaldi’s.  Maybe you’re a fan of the new Doctor? On the Spoiler’s page you’ll find discussions there. Some people don’t want to know anything about the new show before it appears (like it used to be, a whole ice ago ago!) but I can’t help but peek….I also like surprises…..& the new show-runner does too, I think.  😀

Kindest,

Puro (I’m the older one. Thane16 is the younger).

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@missy @pedant @mudlark @whisht

Funny Story.

I was diagnosed with Crohns, right. I was told: “don’t take aspirin or disprin.”

About 10 years later, some awesome headache relief appeared in the name of “nurofen.”

I was working hard & studying but not into studying labels. I took 2, sometimes 3 & it was AMAZING. So much better than Panadol! (paracetamol).  Occasionally I felt this pain in the tum, you see, but I had Crohns…..no biggie.

New doctors would say: “now, you’re taking this medication & this & staying away from aspirin, right?”

Sure! Because I follow ALL their instructions. I’m no doctor.

About 5 years later, I’m buying up some grub & medicine in the pharmacy & I point toward the bright orange  nurofen. The nice lady says, “right, we have paracetamol, claratine and aspirin.”

(I’m not really listening)…hang on, say again?

“You have…. aspirin?”

Oh SHIT!

A month later: my tum was awash with blood & ulcers.

I should’ve listened but also read, thought & pondered.

The half aspirin recommended by doctors isn’t by any means recommended by all of them. Also, the amount is very slight for the treatment, as @whisht explains, of some vascular disease (& prescribed less than, say, six years ago).

Happy Who Week!

Puro.

 

 

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@pedant @jimthefish @bluesqueakpip

Would we REALLY know how good/like Tennant’s/like Smith’s/like Capaldi’s Whitakker’s depiction of Doctor is without the teaser, I wonder?

I don’t see, necessarily, how it is like anyone, myself? To me, it’s just ‘very’ doctor.  I can’t remember what post-regen confusion was -in the past?

Colin Baker:  yes. Tom Baker: ??  Doctor Number 3 was probably very saturnine…. & authoritarian. Troughton’s post regeneration confusion??

So we have a name for it: PRC  ?

Puro

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Macklemore on the same page as Rap God?

 

What is the universe coming to?

(Puro)

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Eminem. Strong Content Warning.

 

 

 

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@mudlark

jeepers, sorry about that: I forgot to thank you. That’s a terrific story -at least you sat on the stairs. And yes, now, wallets & purses contain whole lives.

In most 4th -5th yrs here there’s few group lectures. Generally tutorials where people get together to ‘bounce’ ideas off one another.

Puro.

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Whoa, “How’s everybody doin?”  We need to be aware, constantly, of colour-blind casting issues &, as Thane would point out, in both History & English, sources must be combed, fine tooth ‘n’ all for “representativeness” which I think is interesting for him (they started this in year 6 -so at age 11) considering all our points @pedant @bluesqueakpip @mudlark @jimthefish  @blenkinsopthebrave .  At that age, I would have known nothing about this -not til a “coloured” lad arrived at school & everyone started whispering. Some said bad things, others said “he’ll sing really well & move well in drama.” Hmm. Bad in a different way.

Also music is a thing….

I didn’t get into rap much but then I ‘met’ (in my head & gut) Eminem.

A very good artist. In fact, superb.

His more recent album, which I may point out on the Music thread, is quite something…

But I thought about this for reasons of representativeness, colour blind issues, age, gender, sex, drugs and rock ‘n’ roll:

 

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oops I’m badly off topic. Not cool.

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@missy

played by a white actor (why do people never get irate when they are called white?

I think that’s because some white people during the civil rights era believed that “negroes” -now African Americans were inferior. They were continually exploited by deep south sharecroppers into the late ’50s. White men continued to earn better money. At a point in 1962 an African American said “I can go to the library & see other black men working at a desk not sweeping. I can go to court and see them in the jury not the dock.”

The language can be the problem but as far as I can see many African Americans may call themselves ‘black’ when once whites called them “niggers” or “coloured.”  Maybe by using the term African American we can remember how these people came into the country in the first place -which is as slaves- then, even waaay past this, into the 40s/50s African Americans couldn’t obtain a mortgage & many -and I’m writing of the 1950s and 60s  – could not register to vote. They were expected to copy out parts of the constitution and then were made to explain what they had written. White people were not asked this during voter registration but African– Americans were  – even though they were still American voters and not different.

I hope this helps,

Thane.

 

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@missy

Understood!  🙂

From  Thane

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@pedant

Obviously the solution is to cast Idris Elba and get him to do it in whiteface.

Certainly. I would applaud this, via flapping,  from the cheep-seats.

Kindest,

Heron.

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@mudlark

and therein lies a tale of the soft heartedness of a theatre manager, though I will withhold that anecdote unless any misguided person is avid for further off topic ‘musings of Mudlark’.

*I am!*

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So,  we were talking about gramma.  Maybe also about annunciation.  Others have linked to this group before but not this hilarious number. @mudlark have a listen….

Puro & Thane

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@tempusfugit @missy

Will we have a Caucasian Othello next?

We have & they did: Originally Othello was played by white men.

There is also the matter of Nicholas Burt & Richard Burbage  🙂 In 1825 the first darker skinned professional arrived….& the rest is history.

Puro.

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@missy @tempusfugit

mmm. Not sure why that irks me but it does.

Actually I know why.

Patel is an extraordinary actor with wins and nominations across the planet. His role in Lion was unbelievable. His work in Newsroom subtle and clever.

I’d watch him all night and all day -no matter that he’s….English, educated at Harrow, no less.

So, no, he wasn’t born in Nairobi: that distinction goes to his parents.

Brown skinned, honestly.

Thane16

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@pedant

Thane & I are appropriately pissed! It’s not a good diagnosis.

At this point ALL the “advice” givers in my life would say “eat this, drink this, do this, exercise, don’t eat that” to which I’d say “go hang.” You have to ‘sit with’*  the diagnosis for awhile before, I suppose, working out all the ins & outs 0f what to eat & when.

🙁

Puro & Thane

*sounds like I just gave you some advice! Bummer. You could, of course, take some truly fantastic meds….. 😉

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@mudlark.  Thank you for that. A water-softener unit is pretty expensive here -even though older pipes will eventually need to be replaced.

Some while ago I mentioned baking (I think you said you weren’t able to recall this -but I did!) & your interest in it. As well as your love of gardening, creating ponds & other home improvement issues which you’ve carried out by yourself.

Considering some of your life stories – there was one explaining how you arrived in a very cold house with your parents after moving into a different are & neighbours came to the rescue with warm water etc. – I think you should write a book: “Mudlark’s Musings.”

From Puro and Thane

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@pedant

“milk in first”

This is something I’ve never understood.

I understand a lot about beverages: the size of wine glasses for different alcohol types…the perfect shape and size of a good coffee cup (and the thickness and type of ceramic or china used) but “making tea with the correct number of spoons, milk type, sugar (or both) and when” is damnably confusing. If I had to pretend to be British I’d fail then and there as tea-lady. In fact -horrors- I don’t even use a kettle preferring a small pot with lid which heats up the water quickly and produces no nasty scum in the kettle which is problematic to clean considering the hardness of QLD water

Also, this is our Sofa page and so I think discussing tea makes perfect sense. Tea is one thing the Doctor drinks… I think? At some point, in a different iteration, he went for coffee. But I do recall Mat Smith’s Doctor drinking a glass of wine. But, before swallowing, he spat it back in the glass. I roughly recall Josh Lyman doing this with a cold, old cup of coffee in The West Wing  -the second time he was ever brought coffee by Donna Moss 🙂

Puro

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@pedant @mudlark

Thank you Mr P for linking to Fowler. Rather embarrassingly the reference explains how “everybody knows this household name.”  Oops.

Also, I found this particular reference used the word “inflexion” which is apparently “British” but the more common “inflection” is used. Generally, when Australians write and speak we use British idiom rather than American but I hadn’t come across “inflexion” in that spelling myself.

When I happened to click further, I found the scope of  grammar (presumably as it was once taught) in that one article, enormous.

Interestingly, there was one phrase Wikipedia checkers missed: “In the English clause “I will lead,” the word “lead” is not inflected for any *of person, number or tense….”   🙂

* something is clearly missing….which, considering the grammar page, is funny.

Puro.

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@pedant

Isn’t it a factoid? 😉

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– -this particular one, “army” or not, doesn’t write particularly well.  Key misspellings. Considering our discussions on other thread I made certain to check 🙂

But yeah, she also gave me her “private” email which I’m doing nothing with, obviously.

And if Thane was answering he would know enough now to ignore this too -thankfully

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hi there @craig

we have one “Ariana” seeking to be good friends as she works for the US army 🙂

I’m very happy to lend her out.

 

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@mudlark

Yes, Frederica had a spotty existence 🙂  I wasn’t sure if anyone would even know this book.

I remember the way she looked up to Alexander & with almost no money had to speak with a male friend (who wanted to ….get to know her) about how to prepare a meal without grey vegetables & tough mutton.

He suggested peaches for dessert and a good cheese for supper. At 23, when I read this, I felt horribly sorry for Fred. But her sister’s life was worse! Stephanie (was it?) married Daniel for the wrong reasons, as I recall.  Or at least too soon. She was very clever, quick thinking & very compassionate. In a different era she would’ve worked as a teacher, lecturer in English or the fine arts (“would have” 🙂   ) but at that time assisted her husband in parish activities. Daniel’s mother ended up living with them & was whiney & miserable & at that time Frederica’s younger brother was living with his sister, too. He had flopped ‘life’ I think?

Goodness, it’s been years since I’ve thought of those spectacular characters who made a significant mark on my early twenties.

The last novel of the quartet blew my head open. I’ll never forget Alexander’s whispy good-looks & his cavalier attitude to everybody else. He loved to call Fred “foxy, you with your dirty underwear” & that image stayed for way too long.

Puro x

• This reply was modified 7 years, 10 months ago by  syzygy. Reason: overusing the comma

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@mudlark

bugger! “fewer” -THAT was the “worst” thing about my entire post! Arf. The secret be out: I don’t know any englizh.

Now Racine I know: chiefly because of Antonia Byatt’s quartet of books beginning with The Virgin in The Garden. It’s shocking -or was to me- in the mid-’90s as a “music specialist” I had been steered towards prose from Italian, German, Czech, Polish and Hungarian writers.

Puro-down-hearted….    😉

• This reply was modified 7 years, 10 months ago by  syzygy. Reason: Racine I love

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@pedant

I do find the wandering apostrophes a residual problem in my brain. Millions of apostrophes lost when the words “DONT WALK” replaced the red figure of a person standing, not walking, when crossing the street. I always preferred the figures in red or green… Actually, if I start writing like the above I just sound like Yoda. Whilst this is sound (LOL), in theory, as Yoda was a great guy, it’s definitely weird…Because, people, facts are important, din’t you know?

And how could you tell? 🙂  🙂

Seriously, no meds on board today at all but yesterday? Yesterday was AWFUL!

Also Spawn at a soccer semi-final all day & just back.

On English, I don’t know if it was ever “semi-standardised” @ichabod? I have some very interesting linguistic funnies from the early to late 1800s and then again from the 1970s until 2000:  interesting data.

Kindest, Puro-off-meds.

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@pedant @mudlark @ichabod @janetteb

I think it was here that I learned  less commas are better. In fact, yes! @jimthefish mentioned on the Buffy pages that as a journalist he was taught only to use commas when absolutely essential (@mudlark is it “learned” or “learnt”?).

I over-use commas: that I know for a fact.  🙂  Because, people, facts are important, din’t you know? 😉

I also learned on this Forum what RP actually was. 

I understood -due to music studies -that Latin was essential in some jobs involving interpretation of the written word, the musical words and notes.  The occasional teeny bit of Latin certainly helped but I don’t think it’s anywhere on the Year 11 or 12 Language choice guide in QLD except, perhaps. in two private schools, close by.

I do find the wandering apostrophes a residual problem in my brain. Millions of apostrophes lost when the words “DONT WALK” replaced the red figure of a person standing, not walking, when crossing the street. I always preferred the figures in red or green.  🙂

Fowler? Him I do not know! Or, know him I do not?

Actually, if I start writing like the above I just sound like Yoda. Whilst this is sound (LOL), in theory, as Yoda was a great guy, it’s definitely weird.

I also learned the meaning of:  if you are getting all oozlumy over this…

Oozlumy is a real word. Not @pedant trying to trip us up….Or should that be: “up with trip I will not put.”

@ichabod

“Many people like to say Moffat can’t write for women. I find this a bleak and frankly stupid idea. I see the females in ALL of Moffat’s stories during Tennant’s time being ‘mouthy’ and quick thinking…” [puro]

Well, see, that’s supposedly the gist of the argument: that all of them are like that… [Ichabod]

Ah, so that is their argument? Perhaps when writing “mouthy” I should have written “the companions had ideas, they were creative, they began to think like the Doctor but most importantly they already did speak like him, think like him 🙂  and as @pedant clearly stated above in that terrific post, they had the “audacity” to speak up and question the Doctor, to “insist they be heard;” to choose the manner of their death; and to fully understand that whilst tomorrow is promised to no-one* they insist on ‘having’ their past – -rather than losing  control of their decisions: Bill’s shock about the ret-con [which was also a comical scene as much as an ironic one] and River’s appearance and death in Silence in the Library where Moffat kicks off the arc involving ‘timey whimey’  and the DEPTH of River’s relationship with the Doctor.

*those words in Moffat’s script [if it was Moffat in Trap Street] choked me up.

Cheers, Puro (now, that comma has to be there. Otherwise “Cheers Puro” is me writing “cheers” to me.

😈

PS: @mudlark is “to totally…” THAT much of a grating alliteration?

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@pedant

*respect*

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@mudlark

Ta for the reference. Someone else defined the term for me  -alas I forgot. – and the Usual Suspects are different from The Usual Suspects (being the Kevin Spacey film of that title)?

No, not at all! Remember circa Series 8 where we discussed Romanov and Slavic churches and, on a different point, the name given to a cake tin -sometimes found in copper?

Once, a long, long time ago, I used to work on the cryptic crossword -I was never particularly good. John, however, on train every day for 40 minutes, would complete one each day. He didn’t fill them in with pen (plenty of erasures necessary) but he was fairly confident.

My skills lie elsewhere 🙂 Or is it “lay.” That particular word and its usage has always troubled me.

Puro

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@pedant @mudlark

SJW??

Puro

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@tempusfugit

Ah, a Virgil lover!

It escapes, irretrievable time

A perfect Handel (pun-ish intended except the composer’s name was occasionally listed as: ‘Handle’ ) for this site -and the Georgics no less; not as well known, by some, as the oft-quoted Aeneid. 🙂  I suspect @mudlark our resident knowledge brain on things from Latin to Archaeology to baking of German tortes may add their opinion.

Don’t mind me….but welcome to the site. There is a lot of nonsense on many internet sites and youtube (youboob is my favourite name for it) is one of those places where people will write this:

“Oh I REALLY love this except from Doctor Who. But I’m SO glad that Moffat, the idiot, the lazy, the bad writer of women, the thief, the misogynist, the forgetful, the arc-heavy, the confused…..[and so on & so forth] is leaving. I really miss RTD.”

Really, they could have stopped with the very first sentence but the typical whining is the thing that grabs that little like button & some people live by this …

In any case I’m known, on the odd occasion, to have my own temper which I must keep in check  😈

Enjoy the site. Not long to go….

Kindest, Puro and Thane16

PS: where are you from? If  you wish to ignore the question -for privacy, that’s fine.

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@pedant

Ah, I didn’t clicky on your Olney car show & only now realised my error. Loved the MGBs etc…

@blenkinsopthebrave

I was suggesting we had proper cold weather -but it was barely a day of it. And if it’s 25c during the day it’s summer to me and even 16 degrees  maximum is bikini weather to many tourists.

Since you were last paying bills here, rates & water have separated out: we pay for the water we use & despite the 3 person household, we use 15% more than our local average. Now that electricity companies are deregulating, & in spite of the spam from various fledgling companies, I dropped a lot of dosh on 20 solar terminals so that within 12 months I should buy back a few measly dollars. Next stop: water tanks. Or, child of ours will shower with a 10 litre bucket a day  🙂

@mudlark

St Werberga  reminds me a lot of the castle at Wartburg & the German settlers who moved to Aus & settled north  in lovely mosquito ridden places as Gin Gin, Scallywag Creek, Good Night town, Ban Ban & even our own Moffatdale.

Puro

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@blenkinsopthebrave

I can see Puro the Younger on the airwaves near midnight.

Actually, we had ‘cold’ weather -for 16 hours. Not even a full day of proper cold weather in SE QLD.

I might sashay to the Pub for this

<dashing…..>…..>….>

Puro

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@pedant @jimthefish

It reminds me of Moriarty actually -perhaps a very sly reference to Moffat himself (via Chibbers but in a good way).

Moriarty (flash back) final episode of Moff and Gattis’ Sherlock as he hops out of the helicopter and says:

“I’m Big G, down with the kids, I’m relatable that way.”

Thane

Ssh: I’ve promised the High Council I’d be in bed by now.

 

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@jimthefish @mudlark @missrori @pedant

I wish I had the prosaic and elegiac qualities of Mr P.

Donna a working class woman allowed to fly so close to the sun she had to have her wings clipped for her own protection. But sung about every night on a planet billions of light years away….And Clara…Who refused to be “saved” by Eleven, and indeed jumped without a moment of pause into the fire. And then accepted that “tomorrow is promised to no-one”, but insisting upon her past. A woman insisting. The shame of it.

I was listening to 63 year old Dee Snider’s “We’re Not Gonna Take It” & thinking about young female actors everywhere standing up, singing those words: in different decades or contexts they mean different things.

Mr P, I’ve read a lot of your prose across the years.  Those above brought the hand to my heart which caught the tears.

Puro.

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@mudlark

who, until she is drawn into the Doctor’s orbit, has achieved little in life and seems to have very limited horizons and ambitions, but who, through her association with the Doctor, realises her potential and achieves full agency. Amy is the same in some respects, except that her life from childhood onwards was shaped – and warped – by that brief first encounter with the Doctor

At 19 I was pretty ‘unformed’ 🙂  And I hadn’t achieved much in life.

I was at university. Though, to be honest, if that were now, with the insane fees for a basic Arts degree, I probably would’ve ended up teaching piano at home & writing a cook book.

I think Rose was pretty unformed & then yes, becomes a well rounded character (out of our focus) as an employee of UNIT. Martha:  quite right -her devotion to the Doctor started with a pheromone attachment 😉

I don’t really have any difficulty with a young woman like Amy being a walking police-telegram. Yep,  I actually wrote that. Her whole life “made no sense” (which I thought was a brilliant breaking- the- 4th- estate comment by Mat’s Doctor) & Pearl’s character was also serving chips like Rose (in 2006-7). I understand that Clara was probably seen as yet another good looking, quick talking, petite, pretty girl -rather than a woman. I know more than a few people saw her as sawdust for telly & I didn’t really agree. What I really enjoyed was her chatter time with Missy -there wasn’t a lot of verbal stoushes but what was there was important, & the lines weren’t repeated. One had to pay attention & work a bit. Her relationship with Danny was a good start though I had difficulties with the actor’s approach to the role. I enjoyed Clara’s ascension to Flying Diner with Ashildr & I don’t think anything like this had been done before. But it wasn’t a gilded cage by any means.

I think Clara was subject to ageism & sexism from a few quarters & I get that many viewers preferred her partnership with Peter Capaldi, not Mat Smith & yet, the trio of stories, in which she starred from before the 50th anniversary into  Mat’s last episode were so engaging and complex; and Clara herself, when you compare her with characters back in the ’70s was sufficiently involved within the story as a well defined character who questioned the Doctors, demanded answers & provided potential pathways. Would the series have benefited from an older woman like Donna? Possibly. But if we admit this, what are we really asking, I wonder? I’m not sure the answer is particularly hopeful. Are we saying “yes! Let’s have more older women at the expense of pretty, younger, mouthy women” because in SO many programmes women in their 50s are just no-where? It’s true & they are but should we discount the young female leads we have because of their age or is it that they’re not “fully rounded” for a 13 episode 45 min show on the telly every 2nd year?

Trying to do everything seems very difficult. The Doctor must be convincing straight-away; the show needs to have an arc; with non-feeble monsters; it must look like a $40 million film; the companion (& we have to call him/her something else & not that) has to be young, AND properly rounded but not too young or too mouthy. We have to have stories set on improbable galaxies but not filmed in obvious quarries. There has to be significant marketability so that even the sonic can be discussed, at great lengths by fans, & not look stupid.

The Doctor’s costume must be easy for cosplay (a term I came to understand, unfortunately, on some fan-site) & the whole thing has to be lighter & funny so that we can escape from our morose, cold weather and our bills and our sausages and chips without getting too wacked out on our cheap wine.  😈

Thank heavens I can have a glass of plonk & leave all this damn thinking about the show to other, better qualified people because, in the end, to use a phrase of Thane’s, I CBA.    🙂

It turns out I’ve completely missed knowledge about an orchestral conductor which has no real relevance here except maybe it does…..

Puro

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@whisht

I missed The Art of Noise THEN I missed The Fall – – Scanlon -Craig or Mark?? With Brix Smith.

Good grief.

This household has been listening to various national songs = Oh Canada and the old  Soviet Hymn sung with Paul Robeson. Such an ancient, beautiful voice.

Puro

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@missrori

Peter Capaldi… notes that he feels the eternal appeal of Who is how it examines death — grief, inevitability, moving on

Ah, I didn’t notice this before. And it explains, how, as a seven year old, who lost her mum, I found something in Who which examined the varying reactions to death and rebirth.  I never laughed when I watched it. Others recall me frowning and nodding for about four or five years. It acted as a promo for “how to behave and think when someone you love has vanished.”

So, after those mutable years, eventually my feelings about the Doctor were set. Like jelly (or jello if you’re American).

Puro.

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@missy

Happy birthday! And also, you remembered mine. What an excellent memory you have.

The Tardis cake sounds wonderful. Was it a fruit cake (like one would have in a wedding, sometimes) or a cream torte?

And thank you, about the above (typically Puro-style very lengthy post). I know that younger people will claim that more advertising, marketing, leaking more ‘news’ about Nu Who & having lite, less -complicated episodes – that are standalone -form a majority opinion.

I also recall, that whilst I liked the trilogy involving the Pyramid Peoples, editing and sorting was problematic due to a death in the Moffat-extended household. When everyone watches you and everything you do, having a death in the close family is just horrible. I would have no idea what that’s like. Everything becomes a tremendous burden and perhaps it did. But the episodes we had from River Song (& also the episodes with Chris and Rose: “Are you my Mummy?”) onto the last episode Once Upon a Time were, for me, pretty great. I didn’t come across any negativity  @missrori about that last Christmas episode?

It’s a question of looking in the right or wrong place, perhaps.

Puro.

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And watch that excerpt till the very end because it refers to “Friday” …..

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I believe this is the one to do with Why People Need Differences. Hey ho!

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@missrori

“I think those theories carry some weight. From what I’ve gleaned in other, sometimes more disreputable parts of the ‘net, a lot of fans were let down by the latter….”

Exactly. Disreputable. So you may’ve your answer right there. And exactly how is the weight carried?

It’s a question of who or what type of people attend panels, engage with ‘sources’ and simply forget things -selectively.

The trilogy of Time, Name and Day was astonishingly good. The sources AT THAT time stated their thrill. A very good mate o’ mine watched all three back to back earlier in the year and remarked on how clever and nostalgic they were. I believe, unlike the Eccelston and Tennant eras, that all the Moffat stories and his era will be positively viewed by many critics in the future. Sometimes it takes that long. Look at Mozart, Vivaldi and Debussy.

Many people like to say Moffat can’t write for women. I find this a bleak and frankly stupid idea. I see the females in ALL of Moffat’s stories during Tennant’s time being ‘mouthy’ and quick thinking. See Clara who jumps in a timestream with no concern about her welfare or any “oh my Gard. I have to really DO this?” Think of  “the very stupid” lady [recall that she calls herself this and one is directly asked “why?”), Miss Evangelista, who, upon going thu the Library’s computer, suddenly becomes very smart. I think of how beautifully Donna was written by Moffat in those Silence in the Library episodes & the introduction of River. That two-episode set was considered by many critics as THE finest next to Blink- with the cliff-hanger (concerning Donna) – amongst the 10th greatest of the show. And hang on….there was the female lead in Blink who went onto multi-million dollar Hollywood.

Then, there’s Amelia and Amy, Clara and Missy (not a Master, but a Master-ess), Rose as ‘the machine;’ Ashildr; Kate, Chief of Scientific Research; Osgood times 2 and the very strongly written Vastra and Jenny Flint.

Those who berate the show as the “Clara Who Show” can’t then mumble “gee, the women aint too good after all and one of ’em is in it too often”  -when the latter point has been actually rebutted, using facts, like time.

These people can’t have it both ways. As for Pearl Mackie, I really don’t know what to say beyond my personal feeling that it could’ve been the weakest of the Moffat seasons possibly because it was written, much like a Committee Camel, to satiate those who weren’t happy with a poorly defined ‘lack of brightness’ in the show.

I thought the character herself was brilliant and certainly showed not just quick thinking; but comfort or the beginning of a sense of ease regarding her sexuality, her body and quite obviously her rapidly gaining scientific (primarily in physics) knowledge. Clara also demonstrated an ability to move through the world with great confidence. River piloted the TARDIS; Jenny and Vastra were so strong they’d probably shit marble and they were the bosses of Strax. Then we’ve the men -Amy’s husband, Mr Pond, who waits two thousand years. AND he’s a nurse -20 years ago that would’ve been a laugh. Strax is also a nurse and must play out that ‘punishment’ and in BLINK the male character didn’t fully solve the story so I’m back to River whose story is backwards and yes, she finishes her life so the Doctor can continue to “run with the stars. Don’t take that away from me. It’s my decision.” How rare: for 2008.

I always believed, though, that the Doctor, with a whole new revolution of regenerations was going to struggle with life -with the questions we ALL ask of ourselves, every day, in some way or another. To me, the Doctor was humanised during Seasons 9 and 10.

If people want jingle bells and comedy there are plenty of shows which offer this but my attraction to the programme at age 6-7 was the same as it still is: mystery; whispering characters hiding from an unnamed fear; corridors and corners, doom, dirt and disorder; shambling monsters and a very, very serious (occasionally grinning) Doctor.  🙂

The ‘sources’ are THE key. I purchase, at considerable cost, 9 periodicals, arriving each month, which delve into science, epistemology; history; literature and also, film and television. These articles are well over 5000 words, they’re properly sourced and it takes many months for the finished product to be edited. I was lucky to read, back in 2009 and again in 2017 different authors persuading viewers to give Doctor Who -in its new formulation – a decent try. One author was Evan Williams and a second, I think was actually Robert Manne and his wife, also a writer.

Panellists and so-called hosts don’t really mean much to me (though I understand the marketing imperative -but don’t buy into Who The Market God). Just recently I read a biography of Joss Whedon and found that until the third Buffy season the attitude towards the show was basically, “this is a joke.” By the end of Season 3, once it was up and running,  many red-faced people apologised for their initial sarcasm.

So, sometimes I think, if people are THAT annoyed; feel the show is somehow ‘theirs’ [when it’s not] and they start aiming or shooting at you, then you know you’re doing the right thing. I think the small applause for Moffat -if that’s all it is – will eventually become a deafening roar, like that of the water drowning spiders in The Runaway Bride.

It’s sad, in the end, that much of the stupidity was aimed at a Doctor who wasn’t considered young and fandom (oops: handsome). By placing an actor of great note, who, I believe, understood the Doctor as well as Tom Baker all those years ago, into such a role was IN ITSELF an act of feminism; a way of ensuring that older women matter; that we don’t all want pretty lads because what woman in her 30s 40s, 50s and onwards wouldn’t applaud Capaldi as handsome?

There’s a line about this in The West Wing by Donna Moss towards Joe Quincy. I might search it out.

Puro.

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@pedant must also check out the light weight nature of cars -when they’re not!  Didn’t realise that. Also, traversing the narrow path that is nuance.

Puro-goodness-it’s-late.

PS:   @cathannabel I shall find more Aretha choons (the latest from @whisht I think) but no J. Strauss 🙂

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