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@ps1l0v3y0u Shirley anne is supposedly on detachment to UNITS Geneva branch and Morris is a stand-in. Presumably the actress was temporarily unavailable for the finale episodes, but it has been reported that she will be back for season 2.

However on another note I’m still a bit confused about Mrs Flood is she evil ie an agent of Sutek or another big bad to be resolved at a later date because she certainly has some kind of mean streak in the way she behaved with Gran and she seeemed to have some insight into what was about to occur. Also is the cloaked woman another Sutek agent or could it be he/she is another member of Suteks pantheon but not actually an ally of Him remember the Egyptian Pantheon of gods were not all  friendly to each other, so could this be a member of the pantheon at war with Sutek and Ruby is either weapon against Sutek  or a child of the gods needing the doctors protection.

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Right omg how right some of us were in our theorising…… do I dare spoilerise or do I leave revealing who the big bad is before anyone  who hasn’t watched the episode yet but some of my fellow forum got it bang on though the writing was all there.

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Ah so maybe that is what I was thinking of.

 

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@ps1l0v3y0u re your comment about the Absorbalof  being drawn in crayon ….well it was as it happens it was it came from a Blue Peter competition as I remember.
On another note I’ve noticed from my sky planner there is only one episode being screened on the BBC on Saturday but I was under the impression that episodes7+8 were being shown back to back.

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Oop that was supposed to be an edited version of the previous post😖

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@blenkinsopthebrave

“Could RTD2’s long-term plan be to bring the Timelords back? In fact, could he have decided to accept Chibnall’s eradication of the Timelords  in order to bring them back?”

Hmmm how do we know that Gnutidoc hasn’t already done it the impression I got from the beginning of the Xmas Special was that the Doctor had already been traveling alone before he met Ruby so how do we not know that he hadn’t already “saved” or somehow recreated the Timelords in some fashion given the revelations about his past. Also @ps1l0v3y0u isn’t part of the original Cartmel plan that the Doctor was always something more than an ordinary Timelord  either a reincarnation of an ancient Timelord or an actual ancient Timelord so the Doctor being actually a lost member of the “Celestial Gods” race like the Toymaker may not actually be beyond reasonable thinking, though TBH I doubt it is part of RTDs  actual plan.

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@blenkinsopthebrave

“Could RTD2’s long-term plan be to bring the Timelords back? In fact, could he have decided to accept Chibnall’s eradication of the Timelords  in order to bring them back?”

Hmmm how do we know that Gnutidoc hasn’t already done it the impression I got from the beginning of the Xmas Special was that the Doctor had already been traveling alone before he met Ruby so how do we not know that he hadn’t already “saved” or somehow recreated the Timelords in some fashion given the revelations about his past. Also @ps1l0v3y0u isn’t part of the original Cartmel plan that the Doctor was always something more than an ordinary Timelord  either a reincarnation of an ancient Timelord or an actual ancient Timelord so the Doctor being actually a lost member of the “Celestial Gods” race like the Toymaker may not actually be beyond reasonable thinking, though I doubt it is part of RTDs  actual plan.

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Well what can I add but pleaseeeee please please can we have more Rogue. Though please  don’t make him a new Captain Jack. On a more serious note if the internet in the other places has a meltdown I say so f- what, it already had been established the Doctor could swing both ways for f-sake. When you have a race that it is established can regenerate as either sex and Jodie doc had obvious feelings for Jas (love or hate the Chibnal era) why is it surprising  that  all the so called fans who seem to only be able to constantly criticise the show an opourtunity to go into a meltdown. I for one have never had a problem with this,  though my own being gay probably  has some part in this. However I would have been cheering the Who team on if they had made Rogues character female, it’s not as if the Doctor hasn’t had female romantic encounters before namely River.

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sorry I’m a bit late to the party so to speak😉. An interesting commentary on modern day social media  is probably the best way I can sum up this episode, with a shocking conclusion at the end which gave a whole nother meaning to the episode when looked in retrospect. I was almost left feeling forgiving to the Dot AI’s decision to eliminate its creators, a self entitled/centred  bigoted and  speciest (if that’s the right word) society. Is RTD making this a theme for the series of highlighting the ways a society can slip into what can be considered as morally ambiguous and even wrong thinking, First we had a society that had abandoned its minors who were essentially refugees who were left to save themselves. Then we had the semi religious/corporate culture that basically made war an industry. Think my thinking has become fried trying to see where this season is heading.

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Hmm, finally had a chance to watch the episode properly finally. A couple of thoughts occurred to me, firstly was the Doctor aware in some way that he or more correctly Ruby had been in some kind of time loop/paradox especially as in the first time when the Doctor stepped on the fairy ring he didn’t seem to know what it was but the second time he knew exactly what it was as soon as he saw it and stopped Ruby from disturbing the notes. Also re the witchy lady, I’m not so convinced  she/it was a future version of Ruby she had more a feel of a version of a weeping angel especially when she finally came close to Old Ruby. Also I see our friend Susan Twist was back again this must mean she has some significant meaning/role in the series’s arc plot. Right better go before the tother half tells me off for over doing things in my recovery 😉

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Thankyou all for your kind words, and yes I am much better now after the Cardiology team’s brilliant effort to insert 4 stents to help repair the damage that caused the heart attack.

On another note though I still have to watch the episode properly I think I saw enough to get some more initial thoughts together. Witchy Ruby initially had  an almost Reverse Weeping Angel vibe, and the scene towards the end where WR finally seems to approach Old Ruby definitely seemed to have a WEEping angel vibe. Though the other impression I also got was the episode had echos or vibe of the Amy Pond episode where she was split in two different timelines in the Two Streams episode. RTD does seem to be revisiting past themes in this series without actually bringing back old monsters. I did wonder to a degree at the end if the Doctor was aware of the time paradox that had just happened/closed and or if he had bought Ruby to this place and time to solve the “issue” of ap Gwilliam.
Right time 😉 to get back to sleep if I can. Again thankyou all for your very kind comments.

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Have watched the episode after a fashion( I had to watch it on iPlayer with fairly diabolical internet conditions as I’m currently sitting in hospital having had a massive  Heart Attack on Monday  which after extensive angiography procedures  I’m much better now). Unfortunately the hospitals free WiFi for patients has been down for the last few days so am reliant on very spotty  mobile internet on my phone so have not been able to watch the episode in it entirety all the way through as it kept skipping bits and freezing up but the bits I could watch appeared to be a very companion centric  and a  bit in the vien of the Donna Noble led episode Left Turn and other episodes  from Who past. The witchy/scary watcher I think had a flash back to T Bakers final story (Legopolis) with the mysterious watcher watching the doctor from a distance. I see our recurring guest Susan Twist was again in the episode surely this has to have  some major plot line meaning.. But until I’ve had a chance to watch episode in it’s entirety and uninterrupted I won’t make any more comments other than to say it looks a good episode

 

 

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Hi all liked this episode much more than the first 2. It had a much more classical who feel. I am beginning to wonder about Ruby and is it possible this might be Susan’s daughter that she has somehow sent to the doctor to look after, as she would be his great granddaughter but only part galifreyan and possibly another hybrid. Though what is it with RTD and Moffat having to have a big mystery surrounding the female companions it seems to be a constant theme over the years of NuWho.

 

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Well I have to say this was an episode of two halves for me. It started out fairly good ok must say Maestro’s performance was very OTT but given this is supposed to be one of the Celestial Toymakers Pantheon what do you expect especially after Neil Patrick’s  rendition of the character they needed to have someone who reflected this which Jinx did very well. My big problem was the way they finished the episode with a  60’s pastiche musical song and dance ending. It felt as if RTD was doing a combined homage to Austin Powers and a Disney musical. It also reminded me of the Buffy musical episode Got to Sing and Dance.

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Hmmm, wasn’t too bad an episode seen worse but at the moment I’m not sure Ncuti is  creating the Doctors gravitas. It actually felt more like a mid season filler fluff episode. I hope this isn’t  a result of the Disney  partnership. Will probably need a rewatch to firm up my opinions to be honest it’s just doesn’t feel a classic who episode.

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@whohar as a general rule if I was commenting on a new episode I would post spoiler free comments in the first 24 hrs to give all a chance to see the episode before making spoilery comments about an episode. As Craig said we are now in a new situation with the BBC dropping episodes on iPlayer prior to being aired on the terrestrial channel. This is probably as a result of the the Disney+ contract as we’ve never before had a double episode on the same day, I have observed in the past D+ have a habit of launching a new series with a double drop. Given that the series is only 8 episodes long I’m a bit disappointed as it now means we will only have 7 weeks of Who to look forward to. On a positive at least Who is back to a Saturday slot…….. at least untill there’s some sporting event to take priority and the Beeb shaft us whovians and move it.

 

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I’m not surprised about that. I think Cartmel was aiming at the doctor actually being some kind of contemporary of Rassilon in the Who books published just after BG Who was cancelled there was some hint that the Doctor may have been  somthing to do with a Triumvirate of ancient  Timelords of Rassilon, Omega and someone referred the Trickster. I think it was supposed to be inferred that the Doctor was supposed to have been the Trickster maybe a bit like a Valiyard-esk version at that time.

 

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@ps1l0v3y0u you’re are indeed right that the 12 regeneration rule was created as cannon in the Deadly Assassin but that particular bit of cannon was partially broken by the 5 Doctors special episode when it was hinted/stated that Timelords from the ancient times like Rassilon were potentially immortal obviously implying that sone Timelords could have endless regenerations. Now at that time there was no actual indication that the Doctor was anything other than a normal ‘modern’  Timelord with 12 regenerations, and I suppose the BBC at that time probably never dreamed that Who would ever reach a 13th Doctor ( oh how short sighted they were). @dentarthurdent During 7’s tenure and the advent of the Cartmel plan it was actually hinted that our dear Doctor was something other than a regular Timelord  perhaps even one of the ancients and it was with this in mind I  think Chibnall ran with the Timeless Child timeline. Also when it came time for the Who production team then had to get around the 12 regeneration rule in the Day of the Doctor they came up with the clunky fix of the Timelords sending him a new Regeneration cycle through a time rift. But with hindsight if the 12 regeneration rule was sacrosanct how could  the Timelords have done this remotely unless the potential for endless regenerations  was established so  in part Chibnal’s Timeless Child timeline then becomes more logical.

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@dentautherdent what you have to remember about Love and Monsters is that the monster played by Peter Kay was the result of a competition run by the BBC run in UK Schools. If I  remember right part  of the competition was to submit a plot outline along with a ‘picture’ of the monster and as I remember the winner was a 10 year old.😝🤣😂😛 so no wonder the the monster was a bit naff.

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@dentautherdent what you have to remember about Love and Monsters is that the monster played by Peter Kay was the result of a competition run by the BBC run in UK Schools. If I  remember right part  of the competition was to submit a plot outline along with a ‘picture’ of the monster and as I remember the winner was a 10 year old.😝🤣😂😛 so no wonder the the monster was a bit naff.

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@vickymallard  I wouldn’t base your opinion on a premier of a Doctor in a Xmas Special as the Xmas specials seem to have a hit and miss history. As @ps1/ov3yu has said RTD seemed to be channeling some of the Mof’s campish Xmas style, I would wait for at least a few episodes from the new series as it starts in I think it’s April or May before making any decision on Ncuti’s performance as the Doctor.

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Hmm now also watched the Doctor Who Unleashed episode for this episode, now I know RTD is a prime exponent of the Doctors first rule and really enjoys messing with us fans but he did admit that there is going to be a slow reveal background story to Mrs Flood. If this is indeed a case of RTD messing with us then he appears to have Anita Dobson thoroughly involved in his scheming. I did however fall into the one of the constant fan fav theories and wonder if Mrs Flood is actually going to be revealed as Susan appearing at last……just putting it out there the other thought that occurred was The Rani but surely not. Though personally I think I’ve  read or saw  a YouTube broadcast somewhere that RTD has said he is going to introduce or reintroduce us to a more mythical side, which he’s certainly done in this special. Though I would say in introducing “other science” shall we say he’s still trying to give it a  scientific structure. I’m wondering if the mystical elements will play out as a result of the events of Wild Blue Yonder, oh heck I think I need more sleep.

 

 

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Loved the episode and there were a couple of definite wtf  moments definitely need a second and perhaps a third  viewing.  All I want to say at the moment is who the heck is Anita Dobson really playing.

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@blenkinsopthebrave my understanding is that he was actually suffering from a combination of a form of arteriocerebro-vascular  dementia and heart failure quite possibly exacerbated by his heavy smoking and drinking though he didn’t actually die till 1975 I suspect he was having problems memorising his lines as early as 1966 when he was effectively pushed out of the role of the Doctor due to ongoing disagreements with the changing production team of who. Today we probably recognise his condition as early onset dementia which is often vascular in nature,

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@whohar this comment has been stimulated by one of your comments over on the blue yonder thread about series 15s potential big bad. But because my response is in part stimulated by some of the events in the Giggle in particular The Toymakers reference to an entity he ran away from,  I’m actually wondering if he was possibly referring to the Black Gaurdian. Now those of us who  are (ahem) old enough to have watched BG Who the first time round will remember that He is the celestial representation of Chaos and quite generally evil, also when the Doctor “rants  “ about the human races tendency to do the stupid and also mentions about the universe being more than just Order and Chaos.

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Right after a quiet rewatch( was watching  yesterday with my client) had what I thought was quite a disturbing though as I noticed that the Unit ladies all were wearing a similar if not the same coloured nail polish red as the hand that seemed to be about to pick up the Master Gold Tooth prison…… do we have a branch of the cult of Saxon within Unit…….. just saying.

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@phaseshift🤣😂

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To my knowledge no, but consider this the timelords seemed to have resurrected every psycho Timelord in the time wars so a regenerated or resurrected Rani is I suppose possible but my bet would be one of that strange cult of the Master’s  being the hand.😉😛

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Oh another thought are they going to run a second stream of Who,  one with David and one with Ncuti, though to be honest it would have made sense given we are being told RTD is keen for spin-offs that if the  TennantDoc was an earth bound Doctor perhaps working with UNIT like an early PertweeDoc.

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Brilliant episode, but did anyone else get the feeling we were being set up for a long term story arc again a mention of some kind of superior/ boss that even the Toymaker answered to. Is this something that Ncuti’s first series is going to be about. And the Bi-Generation WTH does this make Ncuti really 14.5 or 15 and is he going to gain memories as Tennant Mk 2 gains them or is Tennant mk 2 actually 14.5. Well RTD did promise some earth shaking new Who lore.

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@ps1l0v3y0u

I would say the Host robots are more reminiscent of the Robots in the Tom Baker Robots of Death in fact they look very similar facially except the robots in Robots of Death were metallic Green  as opposed to the golden angels

 

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@scaryb  I think the  HADS system is a trop used several times in Who over the years even in the BG era though I have to admit I am very hard pushed to remember what stories. I seem to remember it was used in the in a Pertwee era story and even in a Tom Baker story.

 

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@blenkinsopthebrave yes I also am eagerly awaiting the final episode of the 60th specials in part because it seems to be shaping up to be more of a Special episode. As a side note I read or watched somewhere, as I have a tendency to watch multiple YouTube Who bloggers, that there are plans put it on the list to recreate the missing episodes of “The Celestial Toymaker” as an animated version. But yes the more I have seen of the trailers for the next episode the more I am getting the convinced that the feeling this has been some kind of TCT shadow universe version of ‘London Town’. Perhaps  TCT was released by the events of the Flux and events in ‘Power of the Doctor’ left the Doctor susceptible to the regeneration manipulation.

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Just done my second viewing of this weeks episode. Didn’t really pay too much attention to the initial scene with the future Sir Issac  on the first viewing though did think the casting was a little odd but I now wonder at the casting though but there might just be a reason for that that I’ll get back to . The episode as a whole was an  interesting and frightening concept but I am now wondering if someone’s comment made prior to the first anniversary special airing when the Toymaker return as speculated and they were speculating weather each episode was actually going to be a puzzle/game set by the Celestial Toymaker.
Those that who may have seen the original Celestial Toymaker story or have read the book version like me may remember  in the original story the Celestial Toymaker kidnaps the HartnellDoctor and crew to his own personal universe where he makes the Doctor and companions take part in sadistic games to gain thier freedom. The HartnellDoc gained their freedom but destroyed the Toymakers universe by beating him. I was stated by the Doctor because the Toymaker was an Eternal he would return and he (the Doctor) expected a rematch at some point.Now what if He (The Celestial Toymaker) has again kidnapped the Doctor whilst he was mid Regeneration and interfered with the regeneration to cause the regression to this 10 like 14 and what has happened since has all happened in the celestial Toymaker universe. Hence we have a false Sir Issac and the casting may have been to provide an intentional clue to us the audience. Now I’m not saying Donna is not the real Donna as the Toymaker will have possibly/probably kidnapped and manipulated real people connected to the Doctor into this universe like in the original story. That my mad Theorising/waffling over for now.

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@dentarthurdent  I would agree it certainly was one of the most frightening episodes. Especially as it is entirely a psychological terror episode with no visible antagonist and relied entirely on the interactions of the actors to up the tension. Ironically I would suppose it was possibly one of the cheapest episodes to achieve.

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Wasn’t the first of special filmed before the Disney+ Streaming Deal was confirmed and yes I do realise the actual deal was probably struck well before it was officially announced, but planning for the 60th anniversary would have been well advanced before the deal was struck. It’s probably just coincidental that any Americanisms were accidental, though I wouldn’t be surprised to find RTD did it on purpose to get the exact response it seems to have initiated. To be honest they totally went over my head probably because as a rule most sci-fi I watch originates in the States so I’ve probably become “blind” to them and to be fair Who hasn’t always portrayed our Trans-Atlantic cousins in a non stereotypical manner.

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@dentarthurdent.
I’ve heard or read some where that the BBC are releasing a triple DVD of the specials in a standard and “steelbook version” ( whatever  that means) immediately after the 3rd special is aired so it should be available to preorder and buy from most dvd outlets and online. Though I did hear the Steelbook version is something like £60 uk but it’s supposed to have quite a few extra goodies for collectors and I think also includes the Dr Who unleashed episodes for each special.

 

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@jimthefish I agree his comment felt more like a trolling comment meant to provok.

Whilst who has not always been socially perfect it has generally been socially aware and accusing a program of being “woke” just seems to be the latest fashion with those who want to troll something just for the sake of it.

As I previously said I really enjoyed the Episode as being a brilliant adaption of an 80’s comic strip bought up-to date.

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Hi all loved the episode and loved that it was based on the 80s Dr Who  magazine comic strip. There was nothing however that said to me this is an  Special Aniversary other than it brought back two much loved characters ie Donna and Tenantdoc. Yes it was a brilliant episode as a stand alone, but as I said there is nothing in the episode that makes it worthy of calling it 1/3rd of an Aniversary Special my only hope is that it is  acting as a prelude to a more spectacular storyline. Given that these 3 Specials are supposed to be celebrating 60 years of Who it would feel better if there was more of an interlink between the parts, the only thing that could be construed as a link I could see was at the end when (spoiler alert) Meep said something like “wait till I tell the boss”, which I am making an  assumption is referencing The Celestial Toymaker. Though I do hope to be proved wrong and as the next two specials go on some kind of spectacular interweaving is revealed.

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lol it not counting the days stage but counting the hours😉

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lol just watched the BBC Children in need Dr Who bit and let’s just say lolololol

 

 

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@craig

Erm I think Finnigan above may be either some kind of bot or spammer he/she seems to have posted nonsense posts in all categories

 

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@translatorcircuit like you I had kind of hoped that the 3 anniversary specials would have been shown over the nearest weekend to the 23rd but in reality I think that would have been a bit of wishful thinking,(though the major channels ie; BBC and ITV don’t seem to have a problem disrupting scheduling for sports events). Dr Who apart for the last few years of the PreGap era was Traditionally a Saturday night event and when NuWho went to Sunday evenings we all know the initial controversy this caused with die-hard fans. However I was a bit put out with the BBC over thier scheduling of the specials, I personally think what they should have done if they were going to spread them over 3 weeks (yay at least it’s back in a Saturday night slot), it would have been better to have them start on the 11th  then 18th and finishing on the 25th thus straddling the 23rd which is a Thursday. This would have at least put what I am assuming is going to be the underlying Celestial Toymaker arc culminating around the actual Anniversary date and will give us what I am assuming will be the Tenant14doc/Ncutidoc regeneration scene. Yes the 50th did actually occur on the anniversary date, but they got away with that because it was only a one-off special (albeit set up by the end of the previous series) and it actually landed on a Friday night so felt like what it was a weekend slot. Also remember they did do some Who Centered Scheduling on BBC 2 over the subsequent day. As it is it’s beginning to look/feel like a mini-series which will actually be on 3 consecutive weeks then finishing 2 weeks later with the Ncutidoc opening Xmas special on Xmas day.

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Hi all I’ve just found out for the Uk viewers and I think the worldwide Disney+ viewers the Specials are to air weekly starting Saturday 25th November haven’t heard the time so dont know if it’s going to be pre or post Strictly but given that the episodes are 1 hr long I suspect it may be pre Strictly.

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On a separate note has anyone heard when the actual Air dates are for the 3 60th specials, I’m getting a bit irritated by not knowing  as like to plan my Who watching , yes we know it will be in November, and will be sometime around  the 23rd (being the actual anniversary).  But is it going to be over 3 weekends straddling the date or even say a Friday/Saturday/Sunday nearest the anniversary.  By this time in the scheduling program for the BBC it should be possible let us fans know.

 

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@translatorcircuit I actually have to disagree with you about  Murray Gold has produced some of the best Who music in my own preference. The music in any TV series should set the mood of a scene, it is part of the story. Many shows and films have been ruined by bad music matches. As to your gripe about using the Welsh BBC Orchestra to perform the sound track as they are a cheaper option  is probably erroneous, my understanding is that they are one of the premier orchestras in the UK so are more than probably not a cheap option. Yes the BBC Radiophonics Dept produced some iconic Who music but times change and I would say the production team have done a brilliant job of using some of the best talent available  to produce the show even down to the music used. At the end of the day it will be the fans who will determine whether they like the soundtracks and individual preferences will mean there are disagreements by fans as we all like different styles of music.

 

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@winston lol cute alien you obviously never saw the Dr Who magazine comic strip story Meep the Bleek comes from.I’m not going to potentially spoilerise the special but let’s just say all is not as it may appear if they are following the Star Beast story line.

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The bbc dr who website confirms that all 3 60th episodes will be shown in November and Ncuti’s first full episode is going to be a special screened over the festive period ( hopefully that will mean  Xmasday)

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Hmmm now this may sound a bit mad but they’re not setting her up as the next master/Missy are they??????

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@janneteb sorry this reply is a bit late from what I understand the 3 anniversary specials are to be broadcast together, however they do the 60th with Tennant changing to Ncuti at the end of the 3rd part, with Ncuti’s first full episode being the Dr who Xmas special. Then his first full season to be aired after that. As to the writers strike my understanding is that series 14 was pretty much all written and they were even  working on series 15 before the strike began. In fact large parts of Series 14 was already in the can from what I understand. Now a lot of this has come via Dr Who You-Tube blogger Tharris who in the past has been quite reliable in his reporting of Who news and some from the Beeb.

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