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@thekrynoidman

Why couldn’t it have just taken place on the actual Orient Express.

I believe we discussed the Rule of Cool in the last thread.

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@phileasf

 I suspect these seeming connections are meaningless noise.

Oh no – they are undoubtedly meaningful, in the same way the dream catchers were in series 6. In drama, a red herring has a very specific job to do!

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@juniperfish

We don’t have much to go on in terms of a Gus/ Missy relationship.

I think you are forgetting this place’s mission statement!

It might be quite interesting if Gus and Missy turned out to be rivals, but I am suspecting different variations on the same theme  – in the sense that Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all Abrahamic religions. No wait…

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@geoffers

 they fixed what he did (in ‘the day of the doctor’), but they didn’t fix his decision to do it…

No, The Moment clearly manoeuvred the Doctor into finding a better solution (while robbing him of the memory of having done so). I’d say (from the Moment’s PoV) that the punishment was turned into a reward in the long run.

But that was The Moment – it was the Time Lords who gave him the extra regenerations in response to Clara’s entreaty.

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@devilishrobby

You may be think of Frank “Some Mothers Do Have ‘Em” Spencer.

So anyway

Gus and Missy – relationship! Discuss!

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Oh and “Perkins”. Nice little nod to Perks (Bernard Cribbins’s character) from The Railway Children.

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Oh and full version of the song:

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@bluesqueakpip – Oh I had that bit last week (and did you spot the deft handwaving away of the call to Eleven?)

Random thoughts:

– Sometimes there are no good choices but you still have to choose

– I thought there was a hint of Danny Pink in the Foretold (not just the salute – his gait and stance at the time of reveal)

– Jelly babies and “Are you my mummy”.

– For some reason @danmartinuk is seeing sexual tension in this. Not there at all for me More grief at a daughter leaving home.

And something else that I can’t remember but there is a shitload of teleport action in this series..

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On a less distracted note. Gus. Missy. Relationship: discuss.

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Clara. Flapper look. Oh yes.

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Following on from @bluesqueakpip‘s thoughts on the road to hell in the Kill The Moon thread, some thoughts on an alternative road to hell, featuring AIDS, Ebola and Princess Diana

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@juniperfish

killed in the previous time line

Let’s not a start that one again!

Incidentally, there will be a Moon Sperm(tm) outbreak later this moth courtesy of Halley’s Comet.

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@juniperfish

When Twelve asks Clara whether or not he is a good man, I imagine he is bracing himself for the judgement of his people.

But they have already judged him and found him worthy of a whole new set of regenerations. “If you love him, and you should…”.

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@badwulf

I definitely agree that it was a suicide mission, which explains the astronaut’s grim and fatalistic demeanour (which I think was one of the very strongest points of the episode).

Lundvik explicitly said that she never expected to survive.

Everything about the set up showed it to be a suicidal and almost quixotic mission.

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@juniperfish – – OMG! The Gay Agenda is back!

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@scaryb

I was beginning to think nobody appreciated the Moon Sperm. You’ll never look at the Leonids in the same way, will you?

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@MrJordan

One thing I don’t understand is the cybermen. How are some cybermen from cybus industries, and some just from other planets? What are the odds that John Lumic happened to create a robot that looked exactly like an alien robot,

I may be misremembering, but I think there was some parallel universe action going on. If you want to get really confused, dip into Classic Who (or BG Who as it is know here). Your head will explode. In a good way.

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@thommck

(LOL at the thought from @pedant of waiting to see the creature that comes to fertilise it!).

Thats not a meteor shower, it’s Moon Sperm!

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@jimthefish

No guns and is that really the best team for the job. An old dodderer, an angry cynic and a Michael Jayston impersonator?

It was the only team that was available – I thought that was made rather clear. The Word had stopped caring about space.

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@scaryb

Quite – it is alien biology and we do not have enough information, nor is it germane to the theme of the show. If it ever become important I imagine Moff or a future showrunner will make something up.

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@scotsman418

My argument is valid and I have seen many people not only on this forum but others like it too.

Two things

1. I can’t see anyone saying your view is invalid. Protest too much yada yada.

2. Appeal to popularity is just about the most specious logical fallacy of the lot (a point rather ably demonstrated within this episode).

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Also, nobody at any stage, said that the newly laid egg was fertilised.

Alien biology, innit?

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I think some people are forgetting the Rule of Cool.

The MOON IS A FRIGGING GIANT SPACE EGG, people!

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Oh, and Moon Dragon responded in fundamentally the same way as Space Whale when it was freed.

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@badwulf That sounds about right . Included the a Doctor line about being perfectly entitled to exist, just not a as huge space thingy (I am paraphrasing a tad).

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Line of the show: “I’d rather call you Miss, Miss”

Random notes:

A very direct reminder of Clara’s testy relationship with the Tardis;

Watch your language there are children (plural) on board;

Very large single cell thing has precedent from a Tom Baker story – can’t recall which;

A salutary lesson in what happens when the Doctor obeys the Time Lord equivalent of the Prime Directive. Or was it? Courtney taught the value of being non-disruptive; the teacher being forcibly shown that those who can do (confounding the popular insult of teachers); humanity being taught to look up when it was at the point of maximum…decadence (in the most literal sense). Sometimes the best way to interfere is to take a step back.

Random thought: In Buffy season 6, after she was brought back, the spell created a demon – via thaumogenesis (“Technically not a price. A gift with purchase”). If it killed Buffy it got to survive…

*Strokes chin*

 

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The Grauniad reviewed the DVD set of Edge of Darkness(1) a couple of days ago.

If you have never seen it, use this as an excuse to plug a great yawning chasm in your televisual experience.

If Bob Peck had only ever done this, then his entire career would have still been worthwhile. His Ronnie Craven is a masterclass in understated agony. Pre-Kilmer Joanne Whalley is riveting as his daughter, gunned down in the opening sequence, and Joe Don Baker’s golf-obsessed CIA man is just wonderful.

The absolute jewel in Troy Kennedy Martin’s pretty damned illustrious career.

Also, probably the single most unsettling scene involving a vibrator you will ever see.

 

 

 

 

 

(1) Not, obviously, the shitty, horrible starring-a-racist movie version.

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Oh!  And the Doctor whistling “Another Brick in the Wall”! 

It’s only a matter of time before we hear Roger Waters whining about it (there’s a bit missing from the CDs of Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy because of failure to secure Pink Floyd rights and he gets in a right arse about being able to buy individual tracks from iTunes). Twat.

@bluesqueakpip

I wonder if the obvious inconsistencies for Danny are a case of ‘Ooh, look! Kittens!’ 

(1) Of course, it is quite possible that Moffat is blindsiding us and that he is in fact normal, if damaged by experience.

 

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@bluesqueakpip

 he’s a sergeant when he shouldn’t be a sergeant,

There is certainly something odd about Danny (that comes from the files marked “Duh!”(1), but I think you are over-reading this: for one thing, TV writers are not exactly renowned for their accuracy on matters military (even in drama’s about the military), but more to the point, promotions get accelerated when an army is at war, and the British army is at war – the casualty rates are horrific (we hear about the deaths, not the life-altering injuries).

#Trufact – returning army reservists and service personnel discharged after return are not permitted to work for at least 4 months after getting home. It is called “decompressing”.

 

 

(1) Of course, it is quite possible that Moffat is blindsiding us and that he is in fact normal, if damaged by experience.

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@arbutus

the comments on the Guardian and I must say it’s a real slog.

Monday and only three pages. Says a lot about how far the Gruan blogs have fallen.

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@juniperfish

This season is drawing a parallel between reluctant fighter Danny Pink, who wanted to dig wells and save people, and reluctant fighter the Doctor, who wanted anything except to use the Moment, but went there [in time stream 1 :-)], don’t you think?

Indeed, but there seems to be an assumption at large that only the Doctor can jump to erroneous conclusions.

The Doctor is Tony Benn (probably sans the labour theory of value) – born into privilege, but rejecting it for a ‘greater’ cause.

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@Marconi @doctorbaker

It is not about negative thoughts — you will see plenty if you can resist the urge to be blind – but registering to post them in such a crushingly unoriginal, one-dimensional manner (as if the fatuous “soap opera” complaint is somehow more than lazy sloganising about probably the hardest discipline on TV). It is frequently (not always, but frequently) a sign of on-topic trolling and this forum takes a certain pride in remaining troll free. Either way – and I say this with all love and kindness – if you use the soap opera trope, you lose at interneting.

We know that Danny and Clara were instantly attracted and both somewhat lacking in social skills (for unexpectedly similar reasons). This was shown in screen. We know that, despite an apparent comedy of errors they continue to be attracted. This too was shown. And if you have ever been involved in a workplace romance then you will recognise this sub-plot very easily (and give praise that you didn’t have hordes of school kids taking an interest).

Perhaps you hanker for the days when “Assistants” main job was to scream a lot and ask dumb questions. Sarah Jane killed that off but she was actually denied a personal life by her experience and her reaction to it as we found in School Reunion. That’s an untenable line in the 21st century.

 I love this programme and falling viewership worries me deeply.

There is no falling viewership, there are falling overnights, in common with just about every other show. The days of half the population watching at the time of broadcast are long, long gone. The consolidateds have been consistently around the 8m mark, apart from the end of Tennant’s run.

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@bluesqueakpip @phaseshift @juniperfish

Apart from Listen drawing a very clear distinction between the Army and the Academy. He rejected the Army and did all he could to keep out of the Time War.

He is of the political class – although not very interested in playing politics.

(Also, Danny was hamming to take the piss out of the Doctor, so I wouldn’t read anything special into his manner – and sergeant in 5 years, especially in an active army, is definitely possible).

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@marconi

You will find a healthy scepticism about people registering just to post a negative view.

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@phaseshift

I get that – but by far his profoundest experience is as a guerrilla / insurgent in a long and bloody war

Coincidentally, the first episode of Our Girl had a small plot point about not making assumptions about the “Ruperts”.

There are officers who lead, officers who lead from behind and officers who get shot by their own men.

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@badwulf

My wife was a little put off, as she said that she found the attitude to Clara, dialogue between Clara and Danny at the end, to be rather sexist, as if she was some trophy to be handed from Space Dad to Soldier Son.

I confess to being baffled as to where this came from. Danny came across as a weary soldier seeing a familiar pattern and not wanting his girlfriend to be hurt.

He is completely unaware of course that the Doctor, too, is a weary soldier.

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@miapatrick

 meant to say as well, I liked what Danny had to say about the Doctor, officer class etc. (I also think this strongly implies that it was a boarding school we saw in the Doctors past.)

Except Danny is wrong – the Doctor was a guerrilla, and was odds with his own officer class even before thew Time War started.

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@Marconi – oh dear. Who did you used to be?

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Oh, and also :””Ozzie loves squaddie”.

LMFAO

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No specific thoughts at the mo except “Most consistently cracking dialogue for several years”.

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@serahni

hinted at that The Doctor had a wife and children back on Gallifrey at once point in his early life?

Not so much hinted as stated, since he an away with his granddaughter.

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@booksarethebestweapon (outstanding name. What frightens the Taliban more than the 82nd Airborne? A girl with a book.)

Why do you use this website instead of the BBC site? Or do you use both?

The BBC doesn’t have discussion possibilities that I have ever found (Maybe BBC America does?)

What do you primarily do on this site?

Bonkers theorising(tm). Freelance troll hunting

What do you think draws people to Doctor Who? In your opinion, why has it lasted 50 years?

It scares the kids (kids like to be scared), it is inventive, witty and at its best outstanding storytelling. The two things that have caused it to still being going 50 years on are a) regenerations (the ability to reinvent as needed) and b) the fan base refusing to quit.

What features/topics do you wish were better covered on this site?

Synchronised swimming. It’s a mystery to me. (Bonus point if you know the reference (it is non-Who))

Do you use your local library? Why or why not?

It is not very big and chronically underfunded, but mainly it does not fill a need for me.

So you think a library could help promote fan communities such as Doctor Who?

Sure, especially for the little ‘uns

If you don’t actively use your library, would a library sponsored Doctor Who event (or any other pop culture event) make you want to use your local library more?

Probably not, but that’s just me,

How did you find this site?

A refugee from the Guardian newspaper blogs which got troll-heavy (the site was set up by refugees, well, by @craig at the insistence of several).

Do you primarily use this Doctor Who fan site, or do you use several?

I occasionally look at others, but I have a low tolerance of trolling and fuckwittery and so does this site

Have you ever been in a heated argument or been flamed on this site?

I plead the Fifth (as you say over there). My low tolerance for fuckwittery occasionally finds itself expressed.

 

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Somewhere way back when (I can’t be more precise than that, but I think around the time of Name of the Doctor, and prompted by the last exchange between The Doctor and River) I concluded that Clara is probably their daughter (and therefore Susan’s mother).

Just putting that out there…

RIVER: Oh, there’s one more thing.

DOCTOR: Isn’t there always?

RIVER: I was mentally linked with Clara. If she’s really dead, then how can I still be here?

DOCTOR: Okay, how?

RIVER: Spoilers. Goodbye, sweetie.</span>

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@purofilion

You’re alive. You’re not dead. You’re here

At this stage he is far from certain that he is the architect, and the bit of him with suspicions had no way of knowing any plan had worked.

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@bluesqueakpip

That said, I know what you mean. Twice now, I’ve tried to watch it and twice now I’ve wandered out for a cup of tea in the middle…

I think ti si time to start freeze-framing for subliminal frames of a teapot.

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@rob

 later today politician x is going to say blah blah blah

Yup. That ain’t news – it’s news management.

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@juniperfish

watch the episode for lighting, you will see that it switches  between red and blue at points –

Yes, I saw that in re-watch. I am now entirely convinced they are doing it just make sure you are awake.

@bluesqueakpip

I always think that the flaw in Schroedinger’s wee thought experiment is the idea that you could get a cat into that sodding box without triggering it’s “OMG! THERETAKINGMETOTHEVET!!!!!!!!” reflex.

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@scaryb

I know you defend the media,

I am last the person to defend the media (we don’t have a free press, we have a private press and that is a very important distinction that gets entirely ignored), but I will defend journalist who are guilty of nothing more than asking difficult questions.

The so-called “riots” in Glasgow on Fri for example which went round the world were much exaggerated as far as I can ascertain from friends who were there. I’ve seen (in respected newspapers) reports of 2 murders and the Herald offices having been set on fire by No supporters. Neither of these was true. Social media is much worse

Curiously, I follow several BBC hacks on Twitter and who were still in Glasgow, and they were very clear that, despite the Unionist symbolism, this was just idiots spoiling for a fight (who once-apon-a-time would have pitched up at Ibrox or Parkhead).

Turn your pedantic hammer/torch/screwdriver on the UK media in the months to come.

Like this?

Or this

Maybe this?

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@juniperfish @spider

Two time streams? I find this absolutely baffling

There weren’t. After the events of Day of the Doctor War Doctor/ Nine genuinely believed that they had destroyed Gallifrey (this was made very clear at the National Gallery, when the three Docs were discussing before going their separate ways) and did not come to understand that they had/would found/ find an alternative all the way through 9 or 10s era and most of the way through 11s.

I am more attracted to the idea of pink and blue as representing choice, in a blue pill/ red pill way. Moff is all about the metaphor.

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@nick

 If they want to give there take or personal analysis, it becomes a comment piece and not news.

True, but in the much discussed example here, Nick Robinson is not employed as a news reporter: he is political editor (just as Peston is Economics Editor, Frank Gardner is Security Correspondent etc etc ). They are not employed as news reporters, but for their expertise.

, I cant say I saw one better together politician or news commentary piece (paper, broadsheet or internet) that set out the positive case for the Union

One could make a perfectly reasonable case that since Better Together was supporting the status quo it was for those wanting to make change that had the onus of making the positive case (which, on the issues of currency, it failed to do: as one of Clinton’s aides put it: “The economy, stupid”).

IMO, any clear rational analysis of the economic issues surrounding independence would have to conclude that there was actually too little information to know what the impact would have actually been

Completely agree (although I was more succinct 😉 ).

 Instead of closing down the independence debate for a generation, I think it is just going to have the opposite effect.

I doubt that, despite Salmond trying to make hay out of Cameron’s attempts to stampede a Tory view of English reform through. We have a genuine chance of real constitutional reform. It would be a pity if nationalism (English, Scots, Irish, Welsh – they are all just as cancerous and English nationalism would be doubly so if it gained traction) were to derail that.

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