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  • #49587
    nerys @replies

    @mccottonthedoctorfan

    Welcome to this forum! I really enjoy the intelligent discourse here. By and large we are troll-resistant (notice I didn’t say “-free” … but we do our best to keep that silliness at bay).

    @ichabod

    It’s a form of meditation for him, I think — better than sitting on his TARDIS in a sort of yoga posture, more like this Doctor than a violin.

    Guitar playing as meditation. I like it!

    #49586
    nerys @replies

    @puroandson Someone has Jenna Coleman confused with Katie Holmes? There is a bit of a resemblance, but ouch. That had to have hurt worse than the needle prick.

    #49550
    nerys @replies

    @puroandson

    Do you have favourite season of X-Files? Or did you believe the whole thing was a flop?

    @pedant

    First 5 seasons were OK (and occasionally very good indeed), then it went badly off the rails and they were too slow putting it out of our misery.

    I agree completely. I was never a fan of the convoluted mythology episodes, and really enjoyed the standalones far more.  It’s interesting that the first five seasons were the best, all shot in Vancouver. Coincidence? After they moved to L.A., things started to unravel, like they ran out of stories to tell. As if to compensate, we got conspiracy on top of conspiracy on top of conspiracy on top of … till there were too many layers of conspiracy to count (and I was too tired to try). The fifth season has one of my favorite episodes: “Mind’s Eye” guest-starring Lili Taylor.

    #49402
    nerys @replies

    I love this guitar-playing Doctor. I think it’s wonderful that he does something besides fly a TARDIS … but that’s just me. For what it’s worth, I have enjoyed all of the new-era Doctors equally, but differently. Each time a new actor comes on board, I think there’s no way he can top his predecessor. And then I find I enjoy him precisely for the differences he and the writers bring to the role of the Doctor.

    #48975
    nerys @replies

    @geoffers

    upon reviewing this scene, i did find it odd that ashildr/me remembers the events of “face the raven” so well, given her terrible retention. perhaps the time lords brought her forward in time, as well, and those events aren’t all that long ago to her, now? (but that doesn’t explain how she’s remembered everything while waiting for the doctor. it’s clearly been a long, long time since gallifrey crumbled…)

    That same thought occurred to me, as well. But thinking about it a bit more, she probably wrote it down into a beautiful story, and she remembers the pain and beauty of it because she captured that in her story. Kind of like the Doctor transposing Clara into a lovely melody.

    @ichabod Kudos to you for calling the Doctor’s Clara amnesia, as well!

    #48972
    nerys @replies

    @ozitenor

    1. Sunglasses: Clara gives them back to the Doctor who, later in the diner puts them on the countertop to connect his electric guitar to the speaker system. BUT, the diner and the furniture in it are all part of Clara’s shiny new TARDIS, so when she dematerialises to leave the Doctor alone in the desert with his old TARDIS, the sunglasses have stayed presumably on the diner counter, and are now in the ClaraTardis for use by Clara and Me in their future wiggle-room adventures.

    Thanks, I missed this detail. Time for another rewatch!

    @morpho

    Was the coat Hurt’s? Didn’t recognise it out of context.

    I thought Hurt wore a brown leather coat. Capaldi’s was fabric.

    #48919
    nerys @replies

    @tardigrade

    I didn’t interpret the sonic screwdriver as replacing lost sunglasses. He reads “Be a Doctor” on the blackboard, puts on his “Doctor” jacket and takes up his sonic screwdriver- apparently fully willing to be the Doctor full-time again.

    That makes sense. Thank you!

    #48906
    nerys @replies

    @tardigrade I’m not sure I agree with you about him forgetting almost everything and abdicating responsibility. Clearly he knows what he did, and his role in it. After all, he is the one telling Clara the story … about what he did as a result of her. The only thing is, he doesn’t realize it’s Clara he is talking to, because his memory of her details, her essence – that to which he connected, emotionally, and what drove him to do what he did – is gone. But his memory of all that happened is still there. So I don’t think for a moment that he failed to learn from this. I believe he has learned.

    I have a more mundane question. On second viewing tonight, I see that Clara hands the sonic sunglasses back to the Doctor, who then slides them into his jacket pocket. As far as I can tell, that’s the last we see of them. Then, after he boards the TARDIS, he creates a sonic screwdriver. I guess I assumed the glasses would have to be damaged or lost before he would replace them with some other tool. Ideally I’d have thought Clara would keep them and use them on her adventures with Ashildr/Me, but that didn’t happen.

    #48876
    nerys @replies

    @arbutus @starla Ohila says, “I heard the Doctor had come home. One so loves fireworks.” Seems she had rather voyeuristic reasons for being there.

    @the-war-doctor I thought the Doctor was playing a riff of Clara’s theme on his guitar. Wasn’t that what it was in reference to? That he remembers her story and song.

    #48828
    nerys @replies

    @doctordalek17

    What is the wiggle room? I just never understood what this is.

    If I understand correctly (and I might not, having watched it only once), Clara is stuck between heartbeats … presumably between her next-to-last and last heartbeat. So my interpretation of this is that as long as she stays within that between-heartbeat space, she and the web of time are protected. This harks back to the emperor/shepherd’s boy parable, and how much can happen in a second of eternity (which, come to think of it, is a very good analogy for the Doctor’s time-traveling existence):

    “There’s this emperor, and he asks the shepherd’s boy how many seconds in eternity. And the shepherd’s boy says, ‘There’s this mountain of pure diamond. It takes an hour to climb it and an hour to go around it, and every hundred years a little bird comes and sharpens its beak on the diamond mountain. And when the entire mountain is chiseled away, the first second of eternity will have passed.’ You may think that’s a hell of a long time. Personally, I think that’s a hell of a bird.”

    #48825
    nerys @replies

    @misterhoo

    If she “dies” before returning, does the universe end?

    Hard to imagine how someone lacking an actual pulse could die. Contrary to the excellent argument posted earlier (that the Doctor was the only one to witness Clara’s death, and now he can’t remember her), I think her death is a fixed point. The Doctor remembers her story, and maybe that’s enough. But as long as she plays within that “wiggle room” she’s been given, I think the web of time is safe.

    #48824
    nerys @replies

    I should have read the entire thread before posting. Bravo @pedant on calling it (re: the Doctor forgetting Clara)!

    #48819
    nerys @replies

    I definitely must watch this one again, but it will be after this afternoon’s hand bell concert. I need to prepare for that, and hopefully not make too many mistakes. Our last rehearsal was not as solid as I would’ve liked. Fingers crossed … er, uncrossed. Rather difficult to play hand bells that way!

    But a few thoughts: I wasn’t as emotionally satisfied by this episode as I was “Heaven Sent” … but another poster predicted that would be the case, that there would be a lot of explaining to do, so it would be more cerebral, less emotional. I was glad we got this last (?) round with Clara. And how amazing it has been to see Ashildr/Me grow over the few episodes we’ve seen her in. Great acting by Maisie Williams.

    Who is the poster who predicted it would be the Doctor forgetting Clara? Bravo! You must be feeling quite chuffed about that.

    My husband, who has watched Doctor Who (starting with Before Gap episodes) far longer than I, happily recognized some of the old sounds in the new TARDIS.

    With Clara and Ashildr/Me, I was reminded of the emperor/shepherd’s boy parable the Doctor told us (slowly, very slowly) in “Heaven Sent”: And when the entire mountain is chiseled away, the first second of eternity will have passed. It’s as if they eking out an eternity within Clara’s last few seconds before facing the raven. I thought surely she would pay Danny Pink a visit, thus solving the Orson Pink riddle. Lots of dangling threads still left to tie up.

    And where was Missy? All episode long I was expecting her to turn up, but no. Maybe the Christmas special?

    #48657
    nerys @replies

    @tardigrade

    …, then she might plausibly be part TL in some sense (River Song certainly seemed to be following exposure to the time vortex in utero).

    For a while now, and for this reason, I’ve been thinking the hybrid is River Song. Of course, all my other theories have amounted to zilch, so this one probably will, too.

    #48580
    nerys @replies

    @spacedmunkee

    Question 1. In his last conversation with Clara when he realises what it will take to get out, he mentions that he remembers it all – or words to that effect. Does he mean he remembers every life he has spent in the dial, or he remembers every Claricle? I still cannot make out what he is saying.

    I think it is as @puroandson has explained so eloquently in her post 48564 about memory. I think the Doctor is saying he remembers everything. Unlike Ashildr/Me, who has an infinite lifespan but finite memory, the Doctor has the capacity to remember it all … including Clara’s death. He will always remember her death, and no matter what happens in his life (regenerations, etc.), she will always be gone. I consider that a metaphor for all the companions, and Gallifreyans, he has lost. He is always the one left behind. So what is there to give him hope? That’s when mind-Clara saves the Doctor yet again by reminding him that loss is a universal experience; his is just far longer than that of humans. But his losses are no greater than those anyone else suffers. That’s enough to get the Doctor on his feet again and keep pushing through.

    @ichabod I think you’re having the same trouble I was with the coat color. In different lighting, it appears to be a different color. My confusion was when he entered the bedroom in his wet clothing. The coat appeared darker, but in reality I think it’s the same burgundy coat. I think he’s also wearing the same coat when he steps out into Gallifrey. It’s just that the lighting makes it appear darker. I could be wrong, of course!

    #48553
    nerys @replies

    To completely change the subject (this has absolutely nothing to do with bonkerizing): Did anyone else think Peter Capaldi looked younger in this episode than … well, practically any other Season 8 or 9 Doctor Who episode we’ve seen him in? I think it had to do with the golden glow of the lighting. Somehow his face just didn’t seem as pale or as lined. Odd, too, considering the time trap in which he found himself.

    Also, this opening monologue (which we briefly saw on the wall of the castle) just floored me with its depth:

    “As you come into this world,

    something else is also born.

    You begin your life

    and it begins a journey.

    Towards you.

    It moves slowly, but it never stops.

    Wherever you go, whatever path you take, it will follow.

    Never faster, never slower, always coming.

    You will run. It will walk.

    You will rest. It will not.

    One day, you will linger in the same place too long.

    You will sit too still or sleep too deep and when, too late, you rise to go, you will notice a second shadow next to yours.

    Your life will then be over.”

    #48534
    nerys @replies

    @morpho

    does anyone have any insight into how and why the word HOME appearing briefly in the azbantium wall?

    @geoffers made an excellent observation about that earlier in this thread; initially the Doctor thinks it means his TARDIS, but once he’s through he realizes it points to Gallifrey:

    when the doctor reaches the wall (and the word “home” is there, then disappears) for the first time (our viewpoint), he clearly thinks that it’s the TARDIS waiting for him on the other side. his “home… away from home,” so to speak. he doesn’t realize he’s broken through to gallifrey until he’s on the other side. he looks around, sees the city, and then the boy runs up behind him…

    #48463
    nerys @replies

    @geoffers

    when the doctor reaches the wall (and the word “home” is there, then disappears) for the first time (our viewpoint), he clearly thinks that it’s the TARDIS waiting for him on the other side. his “home… away from home,” so to speak. he doesn’t realize he’s broken through to gallifrey until he’s on the other side. he looks around, sees the city, and then the boy runs up behind him…

    I agree with your take on this. I hadn’t quite put that together, so thank you.

    @puroandson

    Where are you on the ‘me’ question? Is Me the hybrid or is it the Doctor after all?

    Where am I? I’m lost, I tell you! Lost! Seriously, I’m waiting for brighter minds than mine to work that out. No matter what, I guess we will find out on Saturday.

    #48453
    nerys @replies

    I watched “Heaven Sent” a third time last night. In Canada I watch via the Space channel, which means there are commercials. I think this episode suffers from commercial interruptions even more than most, mainly because the music is so extraordinary (none of the usual Doctor Who rousing themes, but some truly beautiful and inventive subtext) and segues seamlessly from one scene to the next. Commercial interruptions, ridiculous advertising banners across the bottom of the screen, all jar the viewer out of this marvelous emotional flow. I know Space has bills to pay, but still. I can’t wait till this one comes to Netflix!

    I felt this the first time I watched it, and last night’s viewing confirmed it for me: “Heaven Sent” is, for me, when Capaldi truly became the Doctor. As much as I have enjoyed Capaldi’s performances these past two seasons, I have also felt he (and perhaps Moffat, as well) has been finding his way toward who his Doctor really is. “Heaven Sent” is such a tour de force performance, but the thing is, here I never felt he was performing. Capaldi wasn’t just embracing the Doctor; he was embodying him. Bravo!

    #48452
    nerys @replies

    Oops, I thought I was posting in the episode thread. Silly me! I will repost the non-memory portion of my post there. And yes, @mudlark, the commercials are just sort of shoehorned in there at odd spots. In Canada I watch via the Space channel, and yes, I know they have bills to pay. But it’s so bizarre to watch these spliced and diced versions of Doctor Who!

    #48426
    nerys @replies

    @lisa @bendubz11 @puroandson @ichabod Re: memory (or lacktherof), I too wish I had a good memory, but I never have … and of course this is not improving with age. Often the memories are there, but it seems to be my retrieval system that’s at fault. I wander around the filing cabinets in my brain, pulling at drawers till I find the right one. School was a chore because even rote learning was difficult for me.

    Names of people and places; I have great difficulty retaining them. Yet here’s something odd: I have superb facial recognition, including age regression/progression. My husband is astonished at my ability to recognize actors in their pre- or post-fame period, either as children or as older adults. Even though they may look and sound quite different, somehow I am still able to recognize them.

    Back to “Heaven Sent”: I watched it a third time last night. I think this episode suffers from commercial interruptions even more than most, mainly because the music is so extraordinary (none of the usual Doctor Who rousing themes, but some truly beautiful and inventive subtext) and segues seamlessly from one scene to the next. Commercial interruptions, ridiculous advertising banners across the bottom of the screen, all jar the viewer out of this marvelous emotional flow. I know channels have bills to pay, but still. I can’t wait till this one comes to Netflix!

    I felt this the first time I watched it, and last night’s viewing confirmed it for me: “Heaven Sent” is, for me, when Capaldi truly became the Doctor. As much as I have enjoyed Capaldi’s performances these past two seasons, I have also felt he (and perhaps Moffat, as well) has been finding his way toward who his Doctor really is. “Heaven Sent” is such a tour de force performance, but the thing is, here I never felt he was performing. Capaldi wasn’t just embracing the Doctor; he was embodying him. Bravo!

    #48265
    nerys @replies

    @puroandson

    As a child we learned with handkerchiefs first and yet most people don’t use them anymore? Do you?

    I can remember my father teaching me how to iron using his handkerchiefs. My mother wouldn’t get within 10 feet of an ironing board. She felt permanent press saved her from all of that. And, of course, facial tissues made handkerchiefs obsolete, by her way of thinking. Maybe bandannas or cloth napkins could substitute?

    #48204
    nerys @replies

    Best review I have read of “Heaven Sent”: The Doctor is all alone in a perfect episode

    #48203
    nerys @replies

    Wouldn’t the Time Lords have been aware of the Doctor’s regenerations via “The Time of the Doctor” … with Clara talking to them through the Crack in Time, and them subsequently gifting the Doctor with an entirely new set of regenerations?

    #48164
    nerys @replies

    One of the shots from the first trailer shows a soldier who looks a lot like Danny. I don’t believe that it’s him, but it reminded me of his last heartbreaking Cyberman moments with Clara.

    #48161
    nerys @replies

    @puroandson Ah, your theory about it being the same coat all the way through (but looking darker at some points because of lighting/moisture) makes sense! Thank you. My brain hurts a little less now. These are the things that hang me up, while meanwhile a great story is unfolding.

    By the way, husband and I watched The Secret Agent tonight prior to our Doctor Who outing. It was quite wonderful to see a much younger Capaldi shine in a different (and rather sinister) role.

    #48153
    nerys @replies

    Wow. Just wow. Husband and I were blown away by this episode. Amazing writing on the part of Moffat, and getting his head around the big picture. We viewers have taken the long way around, too … and I like that. Not billions of years, of course. But I thought the story arc would return to Gallifrey long before it did.

    So, my poor little linear-trapped mind cannot quite work out how the Doctor arrived wearing the dark red coat, but then is seen midway through the episode taking off his dark magician’s coat with the red lining and putting the red one on. I get that there’s something very timey-wimey going on, but I will never figure that out on my own. Small words, big pictures, please!

    @lisa @puroandson @countscarlioni I too thought of the raven when I saw “bird” written out.

    #48007
    nerys @replies

    @puroandson

    I am on my PS which I can do on Saturdays but not Sundays. Sundays I go to church which I have to say I don’t like at all. Other people bring their ipads and ipods but I don’t. I figure its one or the other. Dad insists I should go to church but mum never does. Still they seem good that way. People say “wheres your mum?” I say “none of your business”

    And good for you. My dad took my sister and me to church when we were little. Mom didn’t come because she didn’t believe in it. That changed (sort of) later. But I can’t recall if people asked me where my mom was. If they had, I wish I’d had the presence of mind to come up with your answer. I’m sure yours is far, far better than anything I would have come up with.

    #47985
    nerys @replies

    @puroandson I couldn’t make out the design of the shirt, which is part of why I questioned whether it was some sort of material that got splattered on his shirt, or an actual printed design. But I think it is indeed printed on there.

    #47972
    nerys @replies

    @ichabod My eyesight was never as bad as yours, I think. Not till I developed very fast-growing cataracts, that is. I was nearly blind in my left eye as my husband drove me to the surgery. My right eye (the dominant one; my left is a “lazy” eye) was never quite that bad, but it was getting there by the time I had surgery on it a few months later. The funny thing is, it reversed what has been my eyesight deficit for most of my life. I was nearsighted until the surgery. Since having surgery, I am farsighted; I can see very well without glasses at middle and long distance, but need glasses for closeup reading. Years later, I’m still getting used to that!

    #47970
    nerys @replies

    @carrieanne We’ve had discussions about the order of the Doctor’s wardrobe changes (and their possible timey-wimey relevance) over in the “Face the Raven” episode thread, as well, so I’ll repost what I posted there, just to tie in with your comment. Here’s my very simplistic take on the Doctor’s attire this season:

    Dark red coat, white dress shirt – Episode 2, “The Witch’s Familiar” (black-and-white prologue with Missy describing to Clara an event from the Doctor’s past); Episode 10, “Face the Raven”

    Dark jacket with red lining, dark hoodie sweater, dark pointelle/openwork knit sweater, dark pants (solid or pattern?) – Episode 1, “The Magician’s Apprentice” (opening scene with young Davros); Episodes 3-4, “Under the Lake”/”After the Flood”; Episodes 7-8, “The Zygon Invasion”/”The Zygon Inversion”; Episode 9, “Sleep No More”

    Dark jacket with red lining, dark hoodie sweater, dark pointelle/openwork knit sweater, dark pants with plaid pattern – Episode 6, “The Woman Who Lived” (dark plaid pants are definitely in his closing scene with Clara, the only one in which she appears; hard to tell from the rest of the episode if the Doctor’s pants are a solid dark, or have that same plaid pattern)

    Dark jacket with red lining, dark hoodie sweater, white T-shirt, dark pants with plaid pattern – Episode 1, “The Magician’s Apprentice” (after opening scene with young Davros); Episode 2, “The Witch’s Familiar” (including closing scene when the Doctor returns to young Davros); Episode 5, “The Girl Who Died”

    Dark jacket with red lining, dark hoodie sweater, black T-shirt, dark pants – Here’s the one sort of odd anomaly; this T-shirt appears only in the opening scene of “Face the Raven” and looks to have some sort of red and grayish pattern on the front. Is it something that got splashed on him (their clothes are filthy from whatever they just escaped from), or a pattern printed on the T-shirt? Significance?

    One other detail: The Doctor’s hair is noticeably longer in “The Woman Who Lived” and “The Zygon Invasion/Inversion” than in the rest of the episodes. Bad continuity with Capaldi’s hairdresser, or more significant than that? Something to do with “remembering in the wrong direction”?

    Now, you brighter folks who are less trapped by a linear mind than I … make of that what you will.

    #47961
    nerys @replies

    @juniperfish

    Although the text has been hitting us over the head with Clara becoming Doctor-ish as a bit of a problem, I don’t think the fault, if there is fault, for her death (if it is her death) lies with her.

    She managed to persuade three incarnations of the Doctor not to press the big red button and commit genocide on a planetary scale. She changed the history of the Time War and she knows it. If, as a result, this particular companion has an assessment of her capabilities which one might call reckless, it’s hardly surprising.

    True. Also, Clara (and/or her Claricles) have always been able to save the Doctor. At the very least, this Clara knows she did in “The Time of the Doctor” by peering into the crack and begging the Time Lords to save the Doctor. I don’t think there’s any doubt in her mind that her intervention played a role in the Doctor getting his new regeneration cycle. Her knowledge of that power, combined with the Doctor’s generally good track record of “fixing” things for those he cares about, would, I think, inflate Clara’s sense of invulnerability.

    #47927
    nerys @replies

    In my “pants” post (@frobisher yes, it is a funny reference), I should have typed Episode 6 (not 5) here:

    Dark jacket with red lining, dark hoodie sweater, dark pointelle/openwork knit sweater, dark pants with plaid pattern – Episode 6, “The Woman Who Lived” (dark plaid pants are definitely in his closing scene with Clara, the only one in which she appears; hard to tell from the rest of the episode if the Doctor’s pants are a solid dark, or have that same plaid pattern)

    #47924
    nerys @replies

    @puroandson Thanks, I was picking up on an idea posted by others (@bendubz11, @frobisher, @bobbyfat, @starla, etc.), so it’s hardly an original thought. I just decided to go through each episode and see what of the Doctor’s wardrobe I could see. But whoa, I should have given my post more of a read before hitting the “submit” button. Several typos and words left out! (I have a bad habit of doing that. I can’t think of the word I’m looking for, so I keep going, thinking I will come back and insert the word after I recall. And then I forget to do it!)

    #47907
    nerys @replies

    Wonderful observations, @jphamlore and @puroandson. Continuing on in the “soul” vein (I haven’t yet made up my mind as to whether Ashildr/Mayor Me’s comment was meant to be taken literally or figuratively), the Doctor did go ballistic in a previous episode, with regard to not allowing people their natural deaths. I believe that was part of his rant to the Fisher King in “Before the Flood” … correct?

    #47903
    nerys @replies

    OK, thanks to @lisa I was able to do a bit of reviewing and come up with at least some support for the “pants” theory. Now, the difficulty is that this Doctor is so often shot from above the waist, and even when we see a full view of the Doctor, sometimes the lighting is so dim that it’s hard to get the details of the pants he is wearing. However, here’s my very simplistic on the Doctor’s attire this season:

    Dark red coat, white dress shirt – Episode 2, “The Witch’s Familiar” (black-and-white prologue with Missy describing to Clara an event from the Doctor’s past); Episode 10, “Face the Raven”

    Dark jacket with red lining, dark hoodie sweater, dark pointelle/openwork knit sweater, dark pants (solid or pattern?) –Episode 1, “The Magician’s Apprentice” (opening scene with young Davros); Episodes 3-4, “Under the Lake”/”After the Flood”; Episodes 7-8, “The Zygon Invasion”/”The Zygon Inversion”; Episode 9, “Sleep No More”

    Dark jacket with red lining, dark hoodie sweater, dark pointelle/openwork knit sweater, dark pants with plaid pattern –Episode 5, “The Woman Who Lived” (dark plaid pants are definitely in his closing scene with Clara, the only one in which she appears; hard to tell from the rest of the episode if the Doctor’s pants are a solid dark, or have that same plaid pattern)

    Dark jacket with red lining, dark hoodie sweater, white T-shirt, dark pants with plaid pattern – Episode 1, “The Magician’s Apprentice” (after opening scene with young Davros); Episode 2, “The Witch’s Familiar” (including closing scene when the Doctor returns to young Davros); Episode 5, “The Girl Who Died”

    Dark jacket with red lining, dark hoodie sweater, black T-shirt, dark pants – Here’s the one sort of odd anomaly; this T-shirt appears only in the opening scene of “Face the Raven” and looks to have some sort of red and grayish pattern on the front. Is it something that got splashed on him (their clothes are filthy from whatever they just escaped from), or a pattern printed on the T-shirt? Significance?

    One other detail: The Doctor’s hair is noticeably longer in “The Woman Who Lived” and “The Zygon Inversion/Invasion” than in the rest of the episodes. Bad continuity with Capaldi’s hairdresser, or more significant than that? Something to do with “remembering in the wrong direction”?

    Now, you brighter folks who are less trapped by a linear mind than I … make of that what you will.

    #47899
    nerys @replies

    Thank you, @lisa!

    #47895
    nerys @replies

    Then you’re welcome, LOL!

    #47893
    nerys @replies

    Oops, sorry about the misattribution!

    #47891
    nerys @replies

    Well, drat. Unbeknownst to me, hubby has deleted our earliest TVR recordings of this season, so I can’t test out @bendubz11‘s pants theory. Feeling rather annoyed right now, as I was looking forward to revisiting those episodes.

    #47838
    nerys @replies

    @pedant

    That’s just Buffy interfering.

    @bendubz11

    Well she had to do it Once More With Feeling

    LOL!

    #47837
    nerys @replies

    @puroandson Welcome back, puro and son! Thinking back to my childhood many, many moons ago, the show that terrified me was The Outer Limits. It was a “monster of the week” show … very much in an X-Files vein, except without Mulder and Scully, of course. For whatever reason my parents didn’t feel a need to censor my viewing of that show, even though it left me not with nightmares, but weeks on end of nearly sleepless nights. So I try to imagine what Doctor Who would have done to me. I would probably have been left in a permanently sleep-deprived state!

    #47750
    nerys @replies

    Thanks, @fatmaninabox! Now, if only there were a way to delete that extra “Girl Who Died” from my list (fifth from the bottom).

    #47737
    nerys @replies

    Thanks, @bendubz11. For folks like myself who rely heavily on visuals to process information, it really helps to have the order you’re proposing laid out! I may just watch the episodes in that order (minus the ones that haven’t aired yet) to see if it makes sense. Like you, I think “Sleep No More” might actually slot in before the “Invasion” episode.

    #47734
    nerys @replies

    Oops, sorry, I got “The Girl Who Died” in there twice. I meant to have it there at the end only (if I interpret your timeline correctly, @bendubz11).

    #47732
    nerys @replies

    @bendubz

    The only other episode in which she is referred to as Me is Woman, and we don’t have Clara in it, making CapDoc the only source, and probably meaning it is probably current CapDoc.

    Except that Clara does appear at the end of this episode, correct? So are you saying that ending is really linked to an entirely different time frame, not in the immediate aftermath of “The Woman Who Lived”?

    OK, so I got a bit confused by the comments at the end of your post. Are you saying this is the order you think the Doctor is experiencing events?

    The Woman Who LIved
    Face the Raven
    Heaven Sent
    Hell Bent
    The Magician’s Apprentice
    The Witch’s Familiar
    Under the Lake
    Before the Flood
    The Girl Who Died
    The Zygon Invasion
    The Zygon Inversion
    Sleep No More
    The Girl Who Died

    #47729
    nerys @replies

    @pedant Thank you for that reflection on your own experience, providing more info on Crohn’s and updating us on Melissa’s state of mind. It sounds like the side-effects from her medication are dreadful. Depression is a monster, eroding self-perception and stealing optimism and belief in one’s own good. I hope that she will come to realize and accept the truth of our love.

    #47724
    nerys @replies

    Ouch, I haven’t even had my morning coffee yet, LOL!

    #47721
    nerys @replies

    @fatmaninabox

    I haven’t given too much thought to the order of episodes from The Doctor’s point of view but I suspect that The Girl Who Died took/takes place after the events in the final episode.

    Except that in “Face the Raven” Clara remembers meeting Ashildr (which happened in “The Girl Who Died”). So that doesn’t make sense to me.

    #47657
    nerys @replies

    @drben

    As for the question of why the Doctor didn’t offer to take the quantum shade, my interpretation of “The Rules” was that the obligation could only be given away once, not passed around like a hot potato.  Just a thought.

    I agree. Also, the sense I got was that there’s a set chronology in which things can happen:

    1. Ashildr/Mayor Me can remove the chronolock.
    2. If Mayor Me refuses, then the individual afflicted with the chronolock can pass it on to one other individual, but that second individual must willingly request and accept it. At this point, the first individual has changed the rules of the contract under which Mayor Me is bound, meaning that Mayor Me can no longer intervene. That was Clara’s fatal mistake, not realizing there was a contract (complete with fine print) binding Mayor Me to the Quantum Shade. Clara thought she had Mayor Me’s absolute protection, but there was nothing Mayor Me could do once Clara changed the rules of the game.
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