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19 December 2018 at 10:46 #66788
I understand you don’t wish to have us discuss or talk to certain posters. But if attacks occur then a smart and sensible response should be permitted by us. As long as we try to stay above that cranky and furious level -remaining level-headed, I suppose. I hope you don’t delete the comment on this page because it shows the line that our friend has now adopted. But on a Blog page where many people visit, I would think it could turn off our sensitive members and in others, yield only rage which is acceptable at some way-point but, rarely.
I don’t wish to be seen as ‘pathetic’ and I’m strong enough to laugh that off but I do hold with responding to a poster who labels me and yet despises over 60% of the world’s population: also a measured response acts as a bellwether for future posts by others on the site who are active in supporting the show but also, beyond that, support those who suffer: who are lost, damaged or wondering if revenge is indeed the right or correct action knowing that it will change them in ways currently bereft of understanding and description.
Puro and Thane.
19 December 2018 at 10:29 #66785there are no legitimate points to “dispute.” You’re using terminology created in an echo corner of your own devising which leaves you a construct much like a solitract but with less consciousness and salient argument. Stating “it’s SJW” or “grievance….somethingarother” doesn’t present debate.
I feel you dislike black people, foreigners, women and women’s rights. I imagine your great-grandmother’s, working toward some measure of equality, turning in their graves.
Please understand I’m not ‘shouting’ at you; I’m not incorrectly tagging you, I’m not attacking you or calling you pathetic (as you have us) but it seems you have created an account (and many in various media platforms) in order to dismantle whatever joys this series has brought us by a dalliance with vastly out-dated political platforms celebrating simplicity, “an us versus them” mentality and a genuine hatred and fear of difference -including that of women, young girls, or young men with disabilities.
These were the same beliefs of Pol Pot, of Hitler, of Stalin. I’m not accusing you of being like the former but you show attitudes resembling them, at times.
If you argued honestly with zeal and modesty, we would be generous and position ourselves as listeners but when you say “Graham was a coward when he didn’t avenge his wife” you are throwing away the criteria and the rules of the Doctor -when every Doctor made plain that killing wasn’t an option. It is in fact cowardly to do what you suggest Graham ought.
Speaking as someone who is related to several family members who have killed -as part of their jobs, both military and civilian (as younger teens who felt they had no choice) it changes you. Killing creates a mask, a social dementia, if you will. Sartre says it nicely: “killing is abstract. You pull the trigger and after that you do not understand anything that happens.”
But there are all sorts of discussions to be had! Good ones, thought-provoking: so, with a slightly different perspective, I present Othello:
“Murder’s out of tune and sweet revenge grows harsh.”
Good day to you.
Puro.
19 December 2018 at 10:07 #66784I recall discussing this exact point with you too -last year, actually! I sensed a change but I do feel there are new posters with inclinations toward writing, editing and bonkerising with aplomb 🙂
I also thought, independently of you (clearly timey whimey), about chickenelly, thomck (sp) tardisblue? But others have returned : @rob @arbutus @cathannabel -these posters also present wonderful insights for you to read @clarkkent1967, btw.
Puro
19 December 2018 at 09:40 #66782I think @margaret-blaine above had some excellent points.
One of the things I found useful when joining was reading as many posts as possible -to get a sense of the site, its posters, academic or not, those who are published writers or not, involved with music as a career, or with experience in acting and script-writing. Over the 4-5 years I’ve been here (and this too was my first forum) I have learned some incredible concepts from people such as @bluesqueakpip @pedant @craig @blenkinsopthebrave @mudlark @idiotsavon @miapatrick and @arbutus (and many, many more).
For me to comment in detail now would be repetitive But I’ll do it anyway!). Perhaps, seek out my own responses from each episode as well as those above. I believe the writers have done exactly what was asked of them: a complete re-boot for a new era. An era that is marked by people like ‘M’ki….” (I shall not tag the whole person but you’ll get the gist) who has displayed tactics of medieval hatred mixed with illiteracy and venom.
But enough about that: to me, it’s a fresh, productive era, with many internal metaphors focussing on us as monsters -and when you read the venom, these aren’t fictional, unfortunately. A little bit like Buffy, where the ‘heroes’ have survived high school (the real monsters) and its complex sea of difficulties.
But despite the monsters within, our greatest contribution as a race, as humans, is redemption through grace. It was the fundamental principle around which the series was re-booted. It needed no arc beyond that. That they take different forms with each show-runner is the greatest but most subtle praxis or embodiment offered to new writers with a different set of ideas. To have continued in the vein of RTD or Moffat would have been a mistake, in my opinion. The show has revived some of its traditional fan base (again, see the other posts) and incorporated quite rightly -and necessarily -those viewers, and their personal interests in the series.
Children, mainly girls, are entranced and enchanted by the ‘gabby doctor’ -talking, explaining; rather than reacting with superior nonchalance as was often the case with previous Doctors even in the current era (AG). This Doctor co-exists with humans better than any Doctor before her. The idea fixee, if you will, is her completeness, sans the depression or angst from another set of regenerations. She’s confident, respects the ideals of humanity and stands by every element and precept of that Doctor whom we still recognise: encompassing all that is good and holding steadfastly to her personal creed:
never be cruel, nor cowardly, never give in, never give up.
In the end I repeated myself anyway! Timey whimey. 🙂 But a sincere welcome to your first Forum. Perhaps scan some posts? @bluesqueakpip @kevinwho and @pedant have recently written blogs regarding the series – well worth a read.
Kindest, Puro.
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This reply was modified 7 years, 7 months ago by
syzygy. Reason: accidentally making clarkkent 30 years younger: timey whimey
19 December 2018 at 00:48 #66774On @Kevinwho’s Backing Away From the Premise are some comments by Magickirin.
Could they be removed please? If it’s possible (I know you’re busy). The nasty stuff about being a “female apologist” as if all females (gay or not) are somehow not just “unequal” but inhuman, virtually, no better than animals, is just grotesque.
Stunts the comments page. 🙁 But if it stays as an approximation of where the line is ‘drawn’ then, OK, I think!
Puro
19 December 2018 at 00:34 #66773Thank you! Also, ‘I seen you been busy’ (behind the scenes).
Also, I have to read your script/screenplay.
Lovely jubbly!
Puro and Thane
17 December 2018 at 00:57 #66690@kevinwho
Not at all. Give peace a chance. I mean, of course, write, write away! That’s how we’re supposed to do things. Many years ago I was looking at a pretty famous conductor’s notations on a score of Beethoven and I didn’t really like what was there so I changed the notations (in brackets naturally) and the orchestra was twitchy. I said, “Bloc 88 you are ALL over the place! Again.”
They wouldn’t change it. It was so ingrained. I had to live with this souped up, heavy European, ‘look at ME’ score because the concert was fast approaching and I wanted something lighter, softer, faster. But, nope. They wouldn’t budge and thus not knowing me from Adam simply ignored me in that area. I realised they too wanted to shine . Probably why they were pretty amateur.
Also many years ago I was told by a dear friend, who went the same route, “it’s for the music. Not for the musicians or the orchestra: for the music.”
They ignored him too. 🙂
16 December 2018 at 08:52 #66680@kevinwho
I like that! Thing is, is it possible, having seen him in Rosa, knowing the sort of person he is, knowing he was nursed back to health by the lady who would become his wife, would such a narrative be necessary?
I know that Thane likes a particular thriller author. This author, in his books, writes something like this:
“In films and books, the hero has time to present his case in order to arrest the villain they’ve been searching for across days/weeks/years but in the end, those speeches are wasted because the villain isn’t going to understand or care. He might try and trick the good character and in real life there isn’t time for long speeches. Everyone’s too damn tired.”
The baddie begs: “don’t shoot me. Don’t put me in the chamber for ever. I have teeth -money, people, planets…” The goodie is clever. He knows a trick when it’s coming. He knows the villain well enough now, who will say either “you are weak” or, “for Ux’s sake, stop TALKING!”
Next thing he’s in the chamber: “don’t leave me here. I hate it!”
And yet we don’t hear that because what else would we expect to hear? “I luurve it here, baby. Byee [finger wave]. See you in a 1000 years. You can’t resist meee, Gray-ham. I hold all of Grace’s memories. Mwah, mwha ha haa. She really rocked your bod, Gray-ham! Ha, haa!”
So, we’re left with the dialogue that Chibnall gave us. 😀 And it wasn’t what Tim Shaw should feel or why Graham isn’t going to kill him.
The episode, and the series, from the VERY first scene, was about the people, not the monsters. The monsters were often crappy or unbidden -like the spiders- those which weren’t, were in us: the American ‘chief,’ racism in the Deep South, the Kerblam system calling for ‘help’ against an organic enemy or the hatred of one cultural group for another in The Demons of the Punjab (really, the latter sums up the entire thing – the Witchfinder’s was also a battle between and ‘us’ and a ‘them’ -same with Arachnids – of which 80% of the world is currently frightened).
Puro
16 December 2018 at 08:02 #66679@mudlark thank you for your time! I appreciate you checking the internet for this information. I concluded, based on your determination, that the main issue is humidity. Yesterday: 100%. My joints ache like the proverbial.
Also, Thane, with a particular problem that affects his hip, had nagging pain during training put down to thick, sticky air, devoid of breeze – the consequence of heavy weather warnings two hundred kilometres north. Today, at LAST, it’s raining. The temperature is back to 24 when the nights and days have had the same temperature.
I pulled out an old lavender yesterday. Scraggy and grey-ish, it finished blossoming with a dull hue. The neighbour’s wild peach tree and other assorted water-guzzlers cause this smaller area to suffer. Also, as it’s more on her side of the area, I don’t think about it too often -which I suspect annoys the ‘Leisured Chatty Cathies of Coorparoo’ who stroll daintily up the road for their $6 coffees, pronouncing on the state of my garden and the neighbour’s respectively: “oooh, yezzzz, THIS garden looks quite good but must take aaages to work on, I mean we’d ruin our nails; and the other lady with ALL those plants and leaf litter? It devastates our precious neighbourhood, don’t you know? But that lady’s from South Africa, so what would you expect?”
Initially from Sydney, and determined to grow roses, the neighbour was undeterred by my laughing bark (pun intended, of course) and for 12 months they were quite a success. After that, mould grew, leaves fell off and they died, spectacularly. I was vaguely…..satisfied (she was always a tad nasty, leaving cat faeces in our garden, which with CCTV, I can now prove! Being nutty some years ago I would hide behind the fence, waiting to spring like a demon in the night, but no matter HOW early I was, she was even earlier, more astute, always cunning).
But the Idiot Gardner I employed for several years also planted a species of bramble rose -right next to the road (!). After 6 months they too died. This was costly for him as he had a ‘plan’ of replacing anyone’s plants that died if he was responsible for the initial plan. When I pointed out the inevitable consequences of this much vaunted opinion, he was cross-eyed with fear. I suspected then what I now know: he was neither businessman nor horticulturist.
In the position you wrote of in the past week (with diagrams of double digging) concerning ‘yellowing lavender,’ it seemed very dry. Whilst it could be the clay soil, humidity, mixed with dryness sounds like a diagnosis. It’s contradictory I know, as humidity indicates overall ‘wetness’ but we often have very high humidity, threatening rain, with only the tiniest of water droplets as lawns in the neighbourhood become dusty and brittle.
I should invest in a pH reader? I don’t think anyone I know even has one. But otherwise I’m continuing to guess; wasting time – yours too: and I apologise for monopolising it – – almost like a troll on a
Guardiangardening site 😈The Camelia is doing extremely well and the lilly-pillies in front of it are glossy-leaved, marching along nicely for such a slow growing tree. Everything there is content. The lavender, in that position, is an unusual variety, with blossoms like 2 butterfly wings in soft pink. The plant itself is extremely wide at 2 metres, presenting a splendid ‘bushy’ shape. I can’t recall its origin. Like all lavenders, if they’ve been blossoming for five years in Brisbane, I should be prepared for their inevitable depression and death.
On that morose note, I shall stare out the window willing it to rain again 🙂
Puro (how are those Christmas cards coming along? – – seriously, thank you for your enormous help. Bill us accordingly. Drinks and kebabs are on me and Thane: naturally, whatever needs doing is supervised by me – -and Thane follows instructions, precisely, understanding that this house, small as it is, may be his one day).
16 December 2018 at 02:17 #66672@craig That’s awesome!! I have this odd feeeeling. Timey-whimey: I can imagine the original writers and producers watching something like this and between them, saying “uh? That’s OUR Tardis.” That’s a ….a …cyberman….dancing the tango?”
Like a channel blip for CAL in that Library.
@winston I’m sorry. Yes I recall now, Ontario! Snowmen, Ah, a Doctor-Who link…..
@blenkinsopthebrave Thank you for that.
Puro.
15 December 2018 at 02:26 #66648Oh, no, keep it coming!
The water logged plants could well explain the new lavender right next to the old (but getting better) one. I have a sprinkler which drips slowly overnight. Still, at about 6 pm, I checked the depth of soil 2 inches down and it seemed bone dry. And yet…it’s starting to go a bit “yellow” -which is either water logged or too hot! No-one knows which. Honestly, I would have to locate a real gardener in Brisbane to inform me, no doubt checking the pH.
I mentioned my s0-called horticulturist (an ‘elite’ mowing man) was attempting to charge $156 an HOUR. Sod that (pun intended) and yet is responsible for the irresponsible hedging and other misdemeanours. I notice that of the six homes in the area he aint mowing a single one. Possibly, he’s switched angles, the weed. 😉
Christmas cards. It’s been a few years! Ahem. Must, must do better. In fact, I have time. I baked. I cleaned, with Thane’s help, every bookshelf and kitchen cupboard. Feeling well must be like this a lot of the time. It’s quite unexpected and is the best gift. Better even, say, than the Doctor herself 🙂
@winston you’re in British Columbia, too? I was looking around ‘bing’ with some gorgeous scenery. One photo displayed pool floats, tanned women, hats in hand, best-bikinis and on water SO clear you could see every stone below. In the distance were snow-capped mountains. This was high Summer, I expect? The water probably 10 degrees Celsius. Ouch.
Still, I want to live there. Sans bikini. Some of us are too old for that malarkey 🙂 Puro-planting.
14 December 2018 at 12:50 #66640apologies @mudlark , I didn’t thank you for explaining marl, double digging and the nature of soils.
The double-dig method has been an epiphany for me! For many years I would notice Father plying the soil with compost/ manure turning the earth occasionally so it was rich and loamy? For want of the best expression, the soil was soft, with some grit but not ‘packed hard.’ Digging into the ground was easy, producing blossoms by the dozen.
Not what I’ve done. I dig a hole, add water, some osmocote and then gentle lay the plant in with handfuls of potting mix (not too thick). It worked 75% of the time. Most people I know: dig hole, add plant, mush in potting mix, water.
Kerblam! Or not -in their case.
I can see I must use Father’s method: “let it sit. Add manure. Then wait.”
Funny, under a lilly pilly which I’ve hedged into a sphere, there was good soil. I planted ferns and never tended to them. That was 12 years ago!
I must adapt ‘back’ because the soil (after considerable water) in other areas is grey – almost that of concrete? Hard as nails. Lacks that rich- scented earthy smell. Beneath ‘the spit’ (which you explained) I’ve stayed away. Originally, I found not only massive boulders but like you, concrete items from builders who hid them, merrily turfing on top.
Good news. One of the hedged lavenders is re-shooting: the majority of the plant still flowering actually shades the new shoots during hot weather (tonight our min temp is 28 Cel) so with a bit of moisture I won’t need to rip it out.
Cross-fingers.
14 December 2018 at 11:59 #6663614 December 2018 at 11:23 #66634ooh, The Rick! Don’t you just love his hair?
Bowie: Well, I can’t comment on his talent. But I wish I had his hair.
rimshot 😀
Puro
14 December 2018 at 10:56 #66633@craig @pedant @kevinwho @nerys
I think we know exactly who we’re with, right?
Craig’s correct. Let’s not bother with the nasties who do an occasional fly-by. Talk of a character being a coward etc isn’t nice. If I were in charge of the sandpit, I’d be turning away. I think that’s a good plan. Otherwise he might need to delete whole threads.
The series has had a ‘tense’ response in a few nasty media circles. A few rough days, an occasional misstep, it’s been handled well here.
I loved the episode. @bluesqueakpip had good reasons why more than one ‘adventurer’ is splendid – from her place as actor and the practical arguments too.
Two companions could …..hatch a plot, or, chat at some distance from the Doctor, something they are scared to mention or are fearful of. Other adventurers could ask of one another, “am I a good father, uncle, sister (now it’s established the Doctor is all of those).”
It gives those same buddies a chance to grow and to do so away from the all encompassing ‘Lord Doctor.’ I loved Tennant and so many Doctors BG but the Doctor was THE number one
personalien with the companion, learning, only occasionally talking back which happily seeped into favour with Donna and later, with Amy/ Rory -so we’re working toward a 3-companion split as far back as 2010, particularly with River. The River Gang were heavy hitters: experienced, opinionated, aware of their influence on time and space.We just have a new set.
Puro with Thane-in-chat-mode.
14 December 2018 at 08:09 #66630huh? What did I do? I think I chatted REALLY well with @bluffme. I was discussing the post and asking ‘propa’ questions of the poster? at post #66594. But if you think that this person just wouldn’t listen – I get that. They probably wouldn’t. Which is why I being genuinely interested in answers!
And I’m not chatting with the untagged ‘magic’ person. Not goin’ there! 😉
But, sorry! I shall not talk too much.
P.
13 December 2018 at 11:48 #66594<p style=”text-align: center;”>making sure no one’s feelings get hurt, this generation of people wearing their heart on their sleeve. Where every child should get a trophy and not learn that regardless of intentions there will always be winners and losers in life.</p>
Here’s the thing…is it possible you’re conflating issues (above) such as there will always be winners/ losers or “everyone has to have a trophy” with this show?
Because I don’t think those issues -winners; losers, not ‘winning’ the trophy, were front or centre.
What DO you define as a winner? Someone who has accepted death, gracefully, like Graham? Because I didn’t see him as a ‘winning’ figure initially. He lost his wife. His step-son was suspicious of him. The fact Graham didn’t kill Tim Shaw and gently showed Ryan that he would always be there for him was a good thing, a great thing, actually.
This is a PG show, after all, and always, ALWAYS, it has taught the same thing, right from when the Hartnell Doctor regenerated on the inside of the Tardis. During Tennant’s time into Mat’s, we were taught (or told, or simply, that we listened) “never be cruel, nor cowardly, never give in and never up.”
The Doctor doesn’t give up. No matter what the iteration. Perhaps, deep down we don’t like being ‘taught’ by a woman -of all people 🙂
And as to your philosophy of not wearing our heart on our sleeve? Is that wrong, to you? Honestly, is it? I’m interested in that. I’m not trying to fob you off or be ‘pissed off’ at all. It seemed to me, that if people wore their hearts in a visible place, then the world would be better: because we’d put other people first -not ourselves, so selfishly.
Think of the Ood in Doctor Who all the way back in 2006: they wore their brains and the sensitive part of their brains…..in BOTH hands. They had to work communally. And personally I’m confused as to where the “don’t hurt their feelings” comes from. In this series, more than any other, the Doctor did not spare her companions feelings. In Episode 2/3 she said, “It’s terrifying and I can’t guarantee your safety.”
They didn’t go all weepy step out of the Tardis. They helped people solve things by fighting aliens and they didn’t give up, were never cowardly, recognised that the universe was as unsafe as it was scary -I felt that more in this series, than I did previously because the Doctor spelled. It. Out.
In other words, “companions, your feelings getting hurt are the least of your problems- dying is the likely problem.”
I should also add that tolerance is efficacious. Tolerance of kindness, of beauty, of gentleness must lie side-by-side with a lack of tolerance of hatred, nastiness, bullying, revenge killing, cruelty or victimisation. I don’t tolerate those things. I imagine you wouldn’t either.
Puro
13 December 2018 at 08:48 #66586Calcerous marl is, as far as I can tell, a calcium component or mineral filled with…..ahem, marl.
Marl.
mmm.
I have one Camelia. I had two several years ago and, urged to save water, took the water from which I’d boiled pasta, and poured it on the plant. Killed it stone dead.
The other Camelia is doing far better now because the ‘landscaper’ is no longer around. Thus he’s not ‘carping’ the Camelia, which, if I’m right, means that it would have received the wrong type of nutrition? Or unnecessary nutrition, at least?
Puro
13 December 2018 at 05:56 #66583@missy That’s wonderful! (the purse, I mean). I think they’re not over because (I suspect) after another 2 years they may well return to a male Doctor. Also, you chat with us -so you haven’t deserted the
shipTardis yet 🙂13 December 2018 at 03:43 #66581this season is a series of lectures.
But you haven’t actually watched it? 😉
Alas, no, it isn’t. Frankly, if it WAS a season of lectures then good: we bloody well need them. But as I said on the other thread -the Battle of…. (except it’s a long post) I never felt deceived or preached at. The villains are us: perhaps we need to allow the “better angels” on our shoulders to nudge us in the right direction. The Doctor is pretty gabby and I think more than a million people like that about her. She’s not patrician or vainglorious but one of the gang; for me it was the right time to introduce a less ‘alien’ Doctor.
Puro.
13 December 2018 at 03:08 #66577Tim Shaw found a new level of ineffectiveness, protected by feeble “sniper” bots and personally able to be bested by one untrained old guy with a gun. His only significant power was by proxy, through his influence on the Ux.
Absolutely! He was “pretty crap” as a villain. Graham and “the gang” had been to a variety of places nipping home constantly so Graham, an experienced ‘traveller,’ probably had the wits to ensnare the ailing, tied-to-the-tubes monster. 😉 -with Ryan’s buff build, it would’ve been relatively easy. Like a lot of Moffat’s episodes in Sherlock you saw A and C but didn’t need to see ‘B’ (how they got the monster in the tank) to effectively ‘tell’ the story -or ‘show’ it. There has been an unusual amount of complaints about “show not tell” which puzzles.
I counted a dozen references in the first 9 episodes to the fanbase -not including the: “I have lost more, loved more than you have” and the return of the Fez 🙂 which has earned a capital “F.” 😀
I actually thought new monsters was the best way to go, psychologically. The focus wasn’t “OMG, we’re all gonna DIE!” but on the monsters in us -whatever relentless form they take: prejudice the most notable; the acceptance of loss, the recognition that killing changes a person (it certainly changed the Doctor during the years of, “the angry doctor, the one who forgets, the one who loses his right to the name”).
I thought the “crap” villain that @bluesqueakpip and others identified was an interesting one. Most of the villains are ‘arch’ and tremendously successful: the daleks, cyberman, weeping angels etc. I liked that it wasn’t, “tune into next week’s two parter starring…….the daleks (again).” I enjoyed the Doctor’s end speech: short, without a rambling coda, basically saying, “the universe is huge, there’s so much out there” so it makes sense, given the universe’s size that there are always new monsters to challenge.
In this series’ first episode, one of the Doctor’s first questions was, “who ARE you?” in reference to the huge quantity of swelling, moving snake-like figures which, with Whittaker’s final speech, bracketed the series completely: new monsters noticed in episode 1 eg: “who are you?” and the coda, “there’s a lot out there.”
Love your take on it:
the Doctor doesn’t feel out of reach, or out of touch. It feels relatable and immanent…
@nerys. Ah, I didn’t notice that. So, the ‘removed’ planets were restored but life-forms died? I also felt Graham’s path was fleshed out. His mannerisms, the certainty of his decision, was subtle the moment he recognised it was Tim Shaw. Ultimately, I imagine it was Ryan’s faith in him (the same faith Graham exhibited teaching Ryan to ride) which saved Graham. The series focussed on us, humans of sterling spirit, but easily led into choices somewhat less “magnificent” where the bitter, the resentful and the prejudiced walk among us full of righteous certainty. We all need occasional lessons but I never felt deceived.
On second viewing, I felt that Graham’s path toward not killing Tim Shaw was very well established. We weren’t beaten over the head with it, but I found it convincing. After all, Graham was a good man to start with. He was temporarily jolted toward revenge because of his unexpected encounter with Tim Shaw. Revenge jumped to the forefront of his mind, and not just because of Grace. That was a nod to all the death and destruction Tim Shaw had wrought, including the planetary genocide.
@bluffme. See this:
for a simply poor and disappointing season of Doctor Who
I have difficulty with. How was it disappointing? I respect your take on it. I guess I’d like reasons why, specifically, you feel this. Is it a general nihilistic sense that you have?
Puro
12 December 2018 at 08:49 #66551Oh, that’s a lovely dream. And then …to wake. It can be a bleak time, Christmas: despite the white picture-post-cards of trees warmly lit and candles in café windows, there are many who experience misery. Remembering the lost, the fallen and the misgivings of the season…But there’s joy too. In hidden moments.
I remember that two weeks after mum died in October of ’74 I had a dream. I was taken by an officious but gentle group of people into a large overgrown building with many stairs and elaborate doors. The floor was quiet and the building old but not ostentatious. I was left in a room, beautifully decorated, with over-stuffed furniture and after a few moments, my mother walked in, healthy, over-joyed and smiling. We talked (but I don’t recall the subject matter) and after five minutes she explained she had to go through another door and that I couldn’t follow for many years. She disappeared quickly and I woke up.
That morning, my auntie, who had been staying with us, was sitting at the kitchen table alternately crying and laughing and she told me this happened: “since your mum died, I’ve been cooking for you and your dad in the way your mum would. I would iron the way she did too. All the time I felt her presence. But this morning, I felt it even more. It wasn’t scary but I received the distinct impression that she was now saying goodbye and encouraging me to continue as I have. Soon after (about two hours ago), for the first time in two weeks, her presence is gone. She left.”
When I told her about my dream, she cried and laughed some more. A year later she married dad. She was with him when he died in 2015.
Happy memories.
Puro
12 December 2018 at 08:34 #66550As always, a beautifully expressed post. And coincidentally, I was thinking last night of Buffy’s The Body and what an impeccable piece of writing it is. Possibly one of the finest 40 minutes of television I’ve seen.
I love this:
even if they were to say there wasn’t, I’d just quote D H Lawrence: Trust the tale and not the teller!
@idiotsavon yes, I wholly agree::
Chibnall will honour the simple, inevitable and painfully real truth of death: It Takes You Away.
He has an ability to write about death differently -within a series: the tragic, the expected, the shocking ‘suddenness’ of it as well as the grace at the end of acceptance; at the end of truth.
In this way, he makes his stories very believable and thus his Doctor more human, willing to explore the way we cope with death and how we choose to accept its lessons- if indeed there are still more to learn.
@winston you are in need of a hug too? 🙁 Then you shall have it -also a malted milk or barley water which eases many pains: in The Pub.
@kevinwho “And the love between the Doctor and those she’s close to makes up for the loss, just like in real life. I will always love this show.” Absolutely so. I’ve noticed MORE attention to the Adventurers in this season. More joy was added to all the characters so the Tardis was bursting with energy, compassion, confidence and real life. It was a heart-warming series but in the background, Missing Grace. To me, the series spells that out as an arc -others have mentioned this plenty more times than I but I really see it now, more than before. Like Capaldi’s Doctor before: “but you don’t see me.” I think Grace or grace filled this series. It was warm and energetic and perfect for our confused and angry times.
@craig I am SO sorry my friend. I know you have put her gorgeous photo up before and please keep doing so. The memories become ours too. All good memories and more difficult ones are the luggage we can carry for you when the going gets too tough. Sweet dreams, always.
Puro and Thane
12 December 2018 at 00:53 #66528Well, ARE we? Playing the Finger the Cumquat?
*This is not a rude, sexist, harassing comment on ANY level – -before the guns come out!
Is it someone who enjoys the …..ding-ding thread?
Puro
12 December 2018 at 00:23 #66527Thank you for all this and the diagram -I shall respond! Also, “sand is acidic.”
That’s interesting. I’ve always assumed sand is, well, sand! With a normal pH and not at all acidic. I suspect my brother the geologist would know all this. But, sadly, he’s too grumpy for questions of that nature. It’s the rocks that done it.
This is magnificent. You must know we’re ALL trying to figure out who you really are, right? Craig won’t ever tell (obviously). This is the part we’re I’d say “we will come, like a thief in the night…” except it’s the internet. And there’s no comings and goings 🙂
Puro
12 December 2018 at 00:14 #66525It’s called clever. And I’ve been here- regularly for about 5 yrs now, so…you know….read the posts. But you won’t.
Also you’re my age (when my son isn’t me) which makes some of what you write a little ‘weird’ for one so ‘mature.’
@pedant agreed. The show was terrific to me too @bluffme any dismay was totally understandable but it wasn’t a majority view here -or in the ‘world in general.’
@kevinwho thank you for that. 🙂 @seeoswald has form.
Puro
11 December 2018 at 10:16 #66487@seeowald
See how nobody cares?
Binge watch clever DVDs would be my advice. Start with Rectify and you’ll understand, magically, the point of the penultimate episode (that means second-to-last)
11 December 2018 at 01:16 #66473Whats a ‘quark’?
Isn’t it a small sub-atomic particle? I wasn’t aware it was a monster!
The only quark I’m familiar with (and I’m not tagging mudlark because its the spoilers & I do not know if she is on those spoiler or Approved Spoilers pages – and I am also betting Miss Mudlark would know of it) is quark cheese.
Every time around now Mum buys it and makes fruit dumplings. She’s been making them for years and they are a Czech or Slovak speciality I might mention that in/on The Sofa or The Kebab.
Also @nerys I was reading your last few comments in relation to the last couple of episodes and they are really spot on. They’ve helped me understand how the characters have grown. @bluesqueakpip I was really interested in your opinions about how the theme or arc wasn’t a “proper” villain but it was the companions, and us, along for the ride, understanding the various definitions of “grace” which, at this embattled (?) time was a good thing of Chibnal’s to do?
I expect the comments on various youtube fascist channels it’s all hate, all the time. First @nerys mentioned they hated Capaldi, they despised Clara after the first season -maybe because they dislike good looking girls? I don’t think many people hated the actor who played Amy or even Rory? Those who hated Moffat are actually (according to a mate who scours youtube when he’s feeling twitchy) wanting him “back.”
In the end, no-one’s happy ALL of the time. I think it was probably like this in 2005 -Mum and I didn’t even know there was a show! In 2004 ( iwas waay too young to remember) Mum was touring Cardiff and stumbled onto a set -sort of. There were lots of people watching and you could see actors and cameras and those Director Chairs everywhere.
The following year she didn’t even see the first two episodes, basically because she was tired but also because she said it looked “all too new and expensive and where are the corridors and creepy things?” She later binged watched the entire series on DVD and loved it -there was some rackety episodes but the one with “Are you my Mummy?” was the one which got her hooked.
Back then, if she’d wanted to vent her spleen after one or 2 eps she would have. On the net, doing the exact thing she now knows is “dribbly whinging.” Particularly when you’ve seen 1 or three eps and people on social media are quick to say, “we need people to make the decision to fire the writers, remove the showrunner, get rid of the brown people, stop the social messaging and remove the Doctor as a woman because women can’t be doctors.”
As if the WHOLE world stops because the Doctor’s a woman (finally) and the Master is also! I don’t understand those people. Also why are they called conservatives? If they’re trying to radicalise television by stopping people like Tosin Cole, or saying “women shouldn’t be in the role as the Doctor” -I don’t see that as conservative. It seems the opposite to me? Is that true at all?
I should probably put that question in the Pub for others who know way more than me in this area 🙂
Thank you. Thane.
10 December 2018 at 05:29 #66422@kevinwho
Bonkers theory: Great!
Sadly I think Chris has gone for a new set of characters including Missy. Who, at the moment, looks like she’s dead: but looks are deceptive. And like you, I think she’ll be baaaack 🙂
taking the Doc where and when needed.
Absolutely! The Tardis does go wherever she needs to. In this case the Doctor saw just how many distress calls there were. They weren’t from Tim Shaw (which is an excellent idea @notime). I think in Episode 1 we noticed he was a really “crap” villain (I think @bluesqueakpip said that) so when we looked thru the mist we saw at least a dozen different ships who had sent the calls (soon after or during crashing) and we already saw the potential problem and why those calls went out: the planet does terrible things to your brain.
The Doctor knew this (she is, after all, a few thousand years old and understands neural blockers and other things of a similar nature: see Peter’s with the Clara character so that one person would forget. I expect the Doctor has a variety and all she does is swap the polarity -again!).
So, did anyone else notice that once more, the Long Arm of Coincidence played a major role in the plot? Sure is handy ol’ Tim’s DNA-detonated bod got teleported to the only race powerful enough and gullible enough to turn him into tonight’s villain!
For me it’s a really good plot device. I think many people said that they’d be surprised if Tim Shaw didn’t return in this season -it acts as a perfect bracket for the whole series. Also, the villain was significant: not just because of what he did on this planet but his delight when confronted by Graham:
“you killed my wife.” And Shaw says, “GOOD!”
Maybe Chibnall, and he’s really good at people -loss and power, relationships and their motivations -wanted this to be an exploration of Graham’s character and of how the Doctor might’ve banished him to Earth because it wouldn’t be right for Graham to kill Shaw. Also it showed the cementing of the relationship between Ryan and “grandad.”
There’s more reasons for people not to kill someone than because of what the bad guy did. Killing someone, no matter how urgent or horrible, changes that person. I don’t think Graham would know this -but the Doctor would. And I think Grace wouldn’t have wanted Graham to change that much in order to kill this creature. In Buffy, Giles killed the baddie in Season 5 so Buffy wouldn’t have to. Not that she’s not killed people before -but they’ve been monsters in a different way to this particular monster.
I liked the episode as much as last week for this same reason: it fleshed out Graham as a character and as soon as he heard it was the Stenza you could see subtle changes in his manner. Caution started its progress towards the wind and if it had met it? Then Ryan could have been hurt and Graham would’ve been altered forever. The Doctor has that knowledge but she’s felt it in her core -when she thought she would kill all the daleks and the children of Gallifrey. To her, all humans are probably children: young and inexperienced but innocent, sometimes too.
@notime I think Robo-bots aren’t supposed to be part of anything except -the future? It’s a brilliant way of hurting the opposition without using a “live” military -human or not. Of course it adds ONE serious thing to the story: if you have a robotic military think how easy it is to kill others? Much, much easier and convenient and any excuse will do -on that idea I think the killing bots have a place in the story. Mum just added this:Like ‘red- shirts’ but different and worth a closer inspection” Anyway, Mum should’ve written this! I’m rambling and not making a lot of sense but I really like the bonkers ideas @kevinwho keep ’em coming!
Thank you, Thane.
10 December 2018 at 03:14 #66419@pedant @bluesqueakpip @arch this is a really interesting discussion. At home, we’ve been discussing this all morning and fortunately no heads became heated 🙂 (however the Brisbane heat is probably cooking us all so like the ‘feathery,’ confused brains of Paltraki and crew, we keep massaging our heads!)
All that being said I don’t hate the episode but tacking on morals without properly dealing with the concepts raised is negligent and has no place in light entertainment
I’m not sure “it’s tacking on morals” @arch ? I understand weighty concepts must never be handled frivolously and require explanation, in show, and out. I think that’s why episodes in this particular series have delved into ‘social messages’ (not my term but used by others, negatively, on the internet). The “no guns” and “you’re better than that” has been a cornerstone of the show from the ’60s.
But later episodes also focused on what happened when the Doctor intervened in some way: In The Long Game with Eccleston, Rose and Adam visit Satellite 5 in the year 200 000. Adam installs a port in his brain enabling him to transmit all the knowledge of the satellite back home to earth. The Doctor banishes him AND, whenever someone clicks their fingers, Adam’s ‘head’ opens and out pops the port. 🙂
Later, the Doctor returns to Satellite 5, a hundred years later and we have “real live” Big Brother, The Weakest Link and Trinny and Susanna. The Doctor recognises he’s tampered with the future of the humans and culture on Satellite 5 -or so he believes….. 😉
Throughout Tennant’s iteration he was always opposed to ‘civilians’ killing the bad-guys, recognising a truism that many of his friends and companions may’ve killed for him and also lost their lives -sometimes because of him and sometimes because they’d run out of time: a choice had to be made (I’m thinking of Kylie Minogue playing Astrid Peth) pretty damn quick. Tennant pointed a gun at The Master when Wil, Donna’s grandad, as the temporary companion. Eventually, the Doctor thought better of it and put the weapon down.
Mat Smith’s era was peppered with “you are better than this. BE better.” The 2-parter, The Hungry Earth and Cold Blood was a perfect example of this: when good people, in order to save others, effectively lose their core principles by sacrificing an enemy (something ‘other’ than ‘them’) hoping to discover the whereabouts of a missing child and husband. In that episode, Ambrose doesn’t listen to the Doctor and in so doing causes a potentially lethal rift between humans and Silurians.
In The Rebel Flesh and The Almost People, the Doctor respected the Flesh though they weren’t (technically) human – -they still needed protection and a ‘voice’. He was against killing them –despite the fact that one of the Flesh was a rapacious person demanding all humans be subject to the same conditions of the melted flesh: dipped and slipped.
One of my memories of the Family of Blood with the 10th Doctor was that, “the Doctor captures them and issues each member an eternal punishment. He pushes the mother out of the TARDIS into the event horizon of a collapsing galaxy, wraps the father in unbreakable chains forged in the heart of a dwarf star, traps their daughter in every mirror everywhere in existence, and suspends their son in time before putting him to work as a scarecrow (Lester Haines. 2009 -09- 17 in Wikipedia, The Family of Blood. Retrieved December 10, 2018).”
Whoa, that’s punishment! One could argue the Doctor should’ve killed them but this was a more appropriate punishment. Even though Tim Shaw was old and damaged, surviving much like Davros attached to tubes and drips, he was still lethal and would always want more: more lives, more planets.. So I think sealing him in a stasis chamber or cavity was apt: exactly what the Doctor’s done before and equal to the torture Shaw’d inflicted for three thousand years.
I think the Arachnid example is a wholly different one. They were experimented upon and attempting to eat whatever they could to simply keep up with their expanding size. They wouldn’t be reasoned with; neither could they sustain that size indefinitely. The spider was about to die -and yes, I can understand why the American character wanted to kill it -but I’m not sure he was trying to alleviate its misery? I think he wanted revenge and killing the spider would’ve fulfilled that ‘tension’ so it could’ve been the right thing to do but for the wrong reason -and that could be why the Doctor chose to let the spider die as gracefully as possible. It wasn’t going to live in unbearable agony for many hours. The Doctor would’ve intervened in that situation. That’s my take on the Arachnids on earth, but I might be way off base!
Also -I don’t think Who is ‘light entertainment?’ You might disagree and that’s good – it’s why we’re here – but the episode Turn Left, The Family of Blood and the last episode, Number 9 in this series, was quite dense in its array of thought-processes . So maybe it IS light – on some level- but on other’s (considering this very site) I’m not sure ‘light on a Sunday night’ is an apt description for a lot of viewers- including me.
Thank you for reading.
Thane16
10 December 2018 at 01:13 #66418Dr Mysterio wasn’t well liked? I actually didn’t know that! All three of us thought it was a hoot. A real Christmas treat. Naturally I preferred The Husbands of River Song and Twice Upon a Time but Thane definitely loved Dr Mysterio because he would’ve been 12 or 13 at that time and related to the kid-star.
Do you think Chibnall isn’t that bothered? Could it be, that in closed door meetings, they’re dolling out cash, drip by tiny drip, whilst he begs for a tad more? Also, I wonder whether Chibnall, unlike Moffat, who seemed to be involved in lots of interviews etc, is more inclined to keep things very close to his chest ?
Pondering Puro.
9 December 2018 at 09:13 #663719 December 2018 at 09:09 #66370Thank you for the lime information. See, I thought sand was ‘good’ for lavender. I would’ve stolen some from local primary school (they’re renovating and removing sand pits. God knows why: I used to love ’em) but thank you, you’ve saved me from a hopeless life of crime. I thought all clay was a bad thing. In any place (other than 1980s movies with Demi Moore & rather sad advanced education classes). Horticultural grit -I have plenty of that: metaphorical and literal.
😀
9 December 2018 at 08:54 #66368@miapatrick Agreed! It’s a terrific episode which benefits from repeat viewings and shows the Doctor in a variety of acting poses: she’s quite “terrified” and yet manages to laugh while saying so without doing a Tennant:
“this is the worst and most terrifying monster in the history of the universe (delivered with immense doctory-ness) and so run. Just run (delivered with no smile).
@winston It sounds like a delightful area! I think bity insects are everywhere except NZ. In QLD, we don’t have many venomous spiders which is lucky. Monstrous hairy spiders, though. Oh. And flying cockroaches in bathrooms. That’s really fun! One was stuck in Thane’s hair when he was three: we’d been away for 4 months and should’ve done a walk-around. Several had found their way up the plug hole which someone was supposed to ‘block’ for that very reason. That, and tiny snakes. Yick and shiver.
I knew you had ‘the knowledge.’ People wander past and say “gee, you must have time on your hands” and “your garden is SO gorgeous (it’s not)” and, pointing to lavender, “what’s this? Rosemary?”
🙁 Thank you. I have to say “the grey leaves as a hint” wasn’t a hint for me -I really am clueless. Also, “double digging?”
How does one achieve double digging? Is it like double jeopardy? 🙂 I use ‘sea-sol’ which is a fishy/carp ‘gunk’ I also use mushroom compost but truly, horse manure is easy to obtain and smells less than other manure. Perhaps I should give cow manure a try? One of my neighbours doesn’t speak to us and occasionally drops poo in our garden. I shall flush the b**** out with my Christmas present – colour CCTV cameras. Manure on her ‘side’ of the garden may well….OK. keep that to myself. **whistles** I can spend all my time looking at the weirdos who walk the streets at night and leave poo in the lavender 🙁
Ha! Snap.
Puro
9 December 2018 at 08:54 #66369@miapatrick Agreed! It’s a terrific episode which benefits from repeat viewings and shows the Doctor in a variety of acting poses: she’s quite “terrified” and yet manages to laugh while saying so without doing a Tennant:
“this is the worst and most terrifying monster in the history of the universe (delivered with immense doctory-ness) and so run. Just run (delivered with no smile).
@winston It sounds like a delightful area! I think bity insects are everywhere except NZ. In QLD, we don’t have many venomous spiders which is lucky. Monstrous hairy spiders, though. Oh. And flying cockroaches in bathrooms. That’s really fun! One was stuck in Thane’s hair when he was three: we’d been away for 4 months and should’ve done a walk-around. Several had found their way up the plug hole which someone was supposed to ‘block’ for that very reason. That, and tiny snakes. Yick and shiver.
I knew you had ‘the knowledge.’ People wander past and say “gee, you must have time on your hands” and “your garden is SO gorgeous (it’s not)” and, pointing to lavender, “what’s this? Rosemary?”
🙁 Thank you. I have to say “the grey leaves as a hint” wasn’t a hint for me -I really am clueless. Also, “double digging?”
How does one achieve double digging? Is it like double jeopardy? 🙂 I use ‘sea-sol’ which is a fishy/carp ‘gunk’ I also use mushroom compost but truly, horse manure is easy to obtain and smells less than other manure. Perhaps I should give cow manure a try? One of my neighbours doesn’t speak to us and occasionally drops poo in our garden. I shall flush the b**** out with my Christmas present – colour CCTV cameras. Manure on her ‘side’ of the garden may well….OK. keep that to myself. **whistles** I can spend all my time looking at the weirdos who walk the streets at night and leave poo in the lavender 🙁
Ha! Snap.
Puro
9 December 2018 at 06:26 #66366Well, obviously “cutting off” people might be something Puro might like -but hardly necessary when, like the one she referred to above, do not make ad hominin attacks -and they/she has not. As for the other toxic one which led to removing that conversation -that was a really good decision Craig. It’s sad to do but at the same time I think (hopefully) they might change their mind, feel embarrassed, and later, still see it’s there! This way, they get another chance to improve the way they engage with social media. I think we are all a bit different in front of a computer?
Thane (sometimes I disagree with Mum!) 🙂
9 December 2018 at 06:08 #66365All good! Maybe you could cut off the seeoswald? The poster has no critical value beyond “this is rubbish!” and “rescue the show” and “they’ve gotten worse” which is kinda odd as the last episode was quite the attraction at the local philosophy club, apparently (I don’t darken their doors, not after I mis-translated Latin). Other than that, we ignore it, I think? But she’s got form, as they say, in your neck of the woods. In ours, regardless of gender it’s: “what a WANKER!” 🙂
@pedant The Vashta Nerada are chomping on our ghostly monument?
Puro
8 December 2018 at 03:21 #66342Yes, the entire good history of very good telly had many companions/friends/adventurers/fighters.
@pedant . Clearly not at my best: these words together: “good history” say it all.
The second time Musk announced her death.
Uhn huh. Wh? Why? What a twerp. Yes, he does cool things. Some seriously weird stories climb the hill of turds that is the internet (on occasion: clearly, sites like this are made of manna from heaven and thank god for that).
Frogs? Oh, lovely! And your toads are OK? They don’t spit poison at all? I forget they eat all the mozzies and sand flies which, after a stupendous day of planting, teaching Thane to prune the mock orange, and mulching, meant I was attacked by the buggers. Must stop scratching!
We have the occasional bright green tree-frog but more and more often, the horrendous spitting North QLD toad. Over the past 20 years, our temperate semi-tropical climate has become more humid, the winters hardly noticeable.
A gardening dude from our premier gardening show on the ABC lives in Brisbane and deduced that in 15 – 20 years we’ll be in a full tropical climate. Thus he’s re-sorted his garden to include more ferns, less colourful annuals (which don’t last long anymore) and avoids planting more lavender which presents me with a small problem…
A year ago, a friend made some ceramic bunting, hung onto hard wood with strong ribbon and then nailed onto the front of the house: it spells out the rather sugary “Lavender Blue” which, considering our copious lavender and that a portion of the house is blue, works well…..until the lavender dies from stifling humidity which it barely tolerates.
I’m glad you have those lovely green frogs though. They are a special shade of green. Some of ours are dappled in yellow and brown. I don’t think ANY photos of frogs are stupid! Frogs are cool, remember. This shall now replace “fez’ are cool.” 🙂
Just on that note @winston and @mudlark. I had a so-called landscaper, Simon Q, who said “let me trim your lavender.”
Trim it, my ass. He bloomin’ hedged it -who hedges lavender?? Now, bits of it are all sticks growing at wild angles and this is outside the fence near the public footway. I feel like putting a sign up: “this was NOT my idea.”
What would you both recommend? @pedant you’re a keen gardener/photographer. Anyway to deal with it? It looks ridiculous, frankly and I’m thinking, considering it needs litres of water to tick over, that I should take off all the lavender blossoms and then pull all the ‘hedged’ plants out (there’s about 4 in total) and replace them: some are barely $3 each. Cheaper to do that than continually watering and fertilising them. As there’s a lot of clay soil, I constantly use nitrogen fertiliser and lime so the soil drains properly.
People constantly walk past saying, “I love your garden” but that’s because a) no-one gardens around this area; b) they’re trying to make me feel better and c) the garden inside the fence (fence is just over 4.5 feet tall) is quite nice.
Puro
8 December 2018 at 02:34 #66340Hey, we’re in the Solitract!
Erm, HOW do we get back?
Hang on, tell me exactly how many eyes, teeth and arms you have, because you could be a PRETENDER! A sentient universe eating our actual universe and the two can’t co-exist. We’ll go all “kaleidoscope” with our hands.
Test question: who SAID that? (I liked that description). Great episode. Spawn watched it twice. He also thought: Rectify.
Puro
8 December 2018 at 02:28 #66338Right on. Letting go aint easy and with Thane ‘n’ all: letting him solve his problems is the hardest thing I’ve ever done (including Crohns surgery and that’s sayin’ something!). Your particular political climate IS very difficult. We’re all here in Aus watching with horror as the next statement by The Orange Creature is blasted thru time and chaos.
Puro
8 December 2018 at 02:17 #66334Not sure where the comment went about “deleting” a conversation? When we clicked on it, we ended up with the top of ‘The Ghost Monument’ page – – -but with no pages -like a whole different universe! A solitract, maybe.
I just scooted thru ALL the comments on this page and was happy to say that I didn’t “lose it” (as I was prone to do: hence Thane has the account) and discovered we all did pretty well. Unless there was something ‘overnight’ that occurred which we missed? Some huge ‘hack’ of the site or a particularly nasty new/part-time poster?
Puro/Thane
8 December 2018 at 01:48 #66333Frogs are cool 🙂
8 December 2018 at 01:46 #66332@kevinwho Who’s saying sorry? Who’s saying so?? Who? Who?
LOL. No need! The above is Mss Evangelista who was ghost looping (not those words, though).
Ah, @pedant Hannah Arendt. Now we’re talking.
Yes, the entire good history of very good telly had many companions/friends/adventurers/fighters.
Billy Shipton was central to the plot of Blink – without him, specifically, it would have fallen apart.
That. Was. My. Point. You. Nicked. It.
I was ALL over the Evangelista plot/person. 🙂
Puro.
7 December 2018 at 10:02 #66250@miapatrick @bluesqueakpip Agreed.
“You could argue cracks were showing, and that he was becoming dangerous…”
I found 12 in his night-shirt quite distressing. Walking around London searching for the lost dinosaur? Bleating on the top of buildings? It was almost undignified! People complaining (and I get it, I really do) that the current Doctor lacks sufficient gravitas forget key scenes: the Doctor stumbling about (bad knees); talking to himself and others: “who frowns this face?” or “why is your face so big?” Talking for hours to the zygons and humans, pleading for their understanding, begging them to listen to his experiences -his retelling (a necessary thing and utterly convincing) of what it was like to consider killing all of Gallifrey.
Yes there was gravitas, but lots of other stuff too: some confidence problems mixed with occasional arrogance but underneath (with Bill), he’d made almost-peace with specific memories. I saw him as ‘teacher’ and with Bill it was fitting that he would do this -and that his classes would burst at the seams.
But in his very first episode, I remember his plaintive “you don’t see me” and then I wept. Isn’t that our own terrible nightmare? That the people to whom we’re attached will invalidate our experiences, fail to pass on our knowledge? To live without being aware of another’s existence was a powerful fear of the Greeks -one of their gravest fears, in fact, leading to over-confidence and a few burnt…..wings.
And I think a few people thought “the Doc, on a TANK wearing sunglasses and playing an electric guitar?” That’s not gravitas! That’s baloney!” Except we describe him like this: proud and noble, dignified, dutiful, lofty enough to shit marble when I don’t think 12 was like that much of the time. @ichabod -would you agree?
I thought of him as a trickster, more melancholy and internal than our current Doctor. And as @miapatrick said there’s “a good reason why the number of regenerations was capped at 12…. that huge and powerful as Time Lord brains are, the memory of so many personalities..” could turn you into …..12: jabbering at the sky; finding it had to lock onto other people; meditating on the Tardis in deep space (an image I loved) because his brain billowed with chance encounters, or tragedy and bright but confused memories. The new Doctor has to wall-off a space for them so she doesn’t come unglued. For Capaldi, not finding Gallifrey and his frenzied reaction was enough to scare any sane person. Thank God he found it, admonishing the High Council with silent derision and I don’t know if Whittaker’s Doctor would do that -necessarily. As Pip said, “They’re still monsters – but really, that’s their problem.”
On accessing emotions, I remember Kill The Moon where the Doctor, answering questions about the moon and space-science, physically attempted a ‘trance,’ of some sort. As if he had to deliberately unlock memories (of the future) because he, personally, didn’t need them or couldn’t survive without junking ‘irrelevant’ stuff. As he reiterated future events, he lacked full consciousness for several seconds.
Interesting.
Puro.
7 December 2018 at 03:13 #66247@kevinwho
Or Heaven Sent, where there’s nobody for the Doctor to engage in dialog with. Or Flatline, with the Mysteriously Shrinking TARDIS, and the resulting outrageous scenes of Clara pulling a sledgehammer out of her purse and the Doctor letting his fingers do the walking on the subway tracks.
I think Heaven Sent demonstrated how well the Doctor can chat to himself! It’s not the first time. In previous iterations, and in Listen, for example, the Doctor ‘talks.’ To some, the Capaldi Doctor’s strength lay in the certainty of his peculiar interior and philosophical/academic Doctor-personality. I believe most of Who is based on the ‘audacious:’ as well as the outrageous, the silly, the serious, the commanding, the gregarious – and in many other iterations, an off-putting, often socially awkward Doctor.
The fingers walking across the track was a hint by Clara to do ‘The Munsters.’ And as for shrinking, if the Tardis travels through time and into ‘other’ universes it can certainly shrink. 🙂 It’s its own portal. We know that, at one point, a Doctor says “it’s so heavy it would crush the planet” [or something to that effect]. Listen showed how the companion was effectively deploying Doctor-tactics. It opened up the possibility of Clara over-stepping the mark (and she had a ‘real’ mark to prove it in Face The Raven) leading to her death (though there were hints it wasn’t final).
... consider Blink. Look at the basic plot: it makes no sense. It’s a Moffat Loop…..a ….paradox. Can’t work. Consider further what we learn in the course of the episode: that the Weeping Angels feed by grabbing a hold of you and sending you back into the past……in the opening scene, one tries to whang Sally Sparrow with a thrown rock or something.
Ah, OK, I thought it wasn’t an Angel throwing the rock. Sparrow writes, “duck” to herself, under the wall -paper or is it her friend, from the past, spirited away by the Angels who writes on the wall and delivers a letter to Sally? It think it does make internal sense and thus it most certainly works.
The detective in Blink is an extremely important character. I’d argue that the detective in Angels in Manhattan isn’t as significant. Unless you’re thinking of Det. Song? 🙂 This is the episode where the love Rory and Amy have for each other is shown as eternal; the implicit trust shared, is a major focus. This is the episode, I believe, where the Doctor loses them to time; and where River comforts him knowing he cannot re-visit New York.
For once, time can’t be re-written. I think Angels in Manhattan is a character focussed story. Whilst Blink is also a love story, and a ‘thriller’, it’s not focussing on the companions, and their last moments as companions, with the Doctor. But then again Blink spends a short amount of time on Billy Shipton: and what we see is genuinely moving. But I felt that too when first Rory, and then Amy, stood in the cemetery and vanished. It was a tremendous shock: the suddenness of death.
Blink is a different proposition: the Angels appear for the first time so the narrative’s solid but like all good stories it ensures the 40 minutes outlines characters we never see again, which being central to the unfolding story -that’s why Sparrow and Shipton are so “three dimensional”- and yet wholly memorable.
Comparing the two Angels stories is a difficult analysis if you’re attempting to explain character motivation, character development (central to the plot in Billy Shipton’s case) and plot, imho. When you look at other episodes, such as the base-under-siege story, Under The Lake, with its wonderful whimey-timey approach as well as the Zygon two-parter with not-Clara Zygon, you have massive ladles of audacity topped with loads of custard. And jammy dodgers 🙂
Puro.
6 December 2018 at 01:03 #66221I must refer you to @bluesqueakpip who has excellent blogs on the timey whimey nature of the 11th Doctor.
Puro.
6 December 2018 at 00:58 #66220@swankycriminal Good stuff. And welcome to the site….
Yep. I think you answered your own questions. The Doctor -particularly number 12 is very old, he doesn’t remember everything. He simply can’t. Even 11 has issues there. But in Day of The Dr it’s his present. And from then on, I assume he remembers. Missy is the same. But worse. She’s done so many awful things she barely remembers all of them by the time she’s locked up ‘under the university’ – the Doctor tries to re-teach her ‘good behaviours’ 😉 Some things -particularly where it involves saving herself- she remembers.
I like the sonic as a paradox -or a time womble because of the hint back in the RTD era where the two sonics met and ended up ‘fizzing.’
Puro
5 December 2018 at 13:14 #66210@miapatrick @swankycriminal
Absolutely! Miapatrick: Your version is much better than mine. Of course the 11th Doctor remembers only from that point on because he’s the latest iteration and thus going back to meet 10 is the very thing he’s doing now… As you say, because that’s in his past -and his linear, chronological present too.
Puro
5 December 2018 at 13:07 #66206@swankycriminal @pedant
Partly, they were “all” there to save Gallifrey at that moment in time. They do not, and cannot, remember ‘out of the cup of soup’ which is how they knew to keep Gallifrey frozen IN that moment (though the Gallifreyans were said to be living normal lives -but in a hidden part of the universe).
It was almost like a ‘pocket universe’ where the Doctor’s -because they were all doctors in that moment – could do the impossible ‘thing’ but in the not remembering is where the tragedy lies. And no it doesn’t ret-con previous episodes – as it, the 50th anniversary special, occurred in that moment in time where ‘space time’ was opened by The Moment. Later, (or earlier) because he’s still The War Doctor, he won’t recall it, specifically. As for The Day of the Doctor, the Smith Doc points out the conundrum by saying, ***”oh, here’s where I come in.”
He doesn’t know what he is remembering ***-just that the swirly time portal in Queen Elizabeth’s under-gallery is a faint memory. He doesn’t remember meeting the Tennant Doctor also because history is being re-written in The Day of the Doctor.
I thought it was stunning television and helped our strap line: theories more bonkers than what is actually happening 🙂
Puro
There are other ideas, though 🙂
5 December 2018 at 05:10 #66194I am a man of constant sorrows, I’ve seen trouble all my days” (folk song; do you know it?), but more like — those blow up figures that bob around if you hit them, but have some weighty stuff (sand?) at the bottom that makes them swing back upright again after you’ve smacked them down. No sand, no effective *sense* that there’s that weighty grit in there someplace, and the thing is just an unanchored balloon — a cartoon figure.
I am afraid I don’t know that folk song? Maybe songone else will post it? 🙂
I do think the Doc has those memories and isn’t an unanchored balloon -or, balloon light, for example.
Years ago we had the episode with the red and blue balloons in the flesh episode (a double) with Smith, Rory and Amy. I think this was a callback to that. In that in this episode there was a red- lit balloon light. Other flashes of memory have dotted all the episodes, from the organic tardis, to the comment about “have I told you about Agatha Christie and the wasp?” to the fez by Kerblam! I think every episode has had a comment or reference. Thing is, these companions don’t know any of that. Oh and “pockets” which goes back to Tennant and Donna companion.
These companions don’t have that memory access. Also the Doctor did A LOT of timey whimey, loss and memory from the Time War, millions of years in the locked away gallifrey game where he had to punch thru glass. He did A LOT of “my Clara my Clara” and I think A LOT was enough. It was time to rectify the balance and have a Doctor who’s thousands of years old, and to function, has to leave it behind. That’s grown-up. But it’s different for her. She’s alien. Very alien. So, our way of holding onto things because we want to isn’t going to help her or new companions or the people in whatever episode she’s going to be in to save. Still, though she does refer to her grannies or her bed-time story “only when she couldn’t sleep.” We saw a hint of the barn in this episode so I think Chibnall has those references for all of us who need them. If not, we have the DVDs and we can watch and tape these ones too
We had SO much in Listen, in ALL the Capaldi episodes where serious, was really serious and rarely light and airy and this is supposed to be for new viewers and new children-viewers too. I think it’s a very smart move.
Unfortunately youtube thinks otherwise but the majority of clever viewers don’t go there and don’t have time for Forums because their lives are busy and so they come in -or out -for an episode and move on. Sherlock’s still there for a re-watch as is all of Doctor Who now when once it never was all available.
T16
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