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@miapatrick

Thanks for the tips. So basically anywhere, as long as you pick a series. But Night Watch, I’ll start there.

@ps1l0v3y0u

Mabinogion

Ah yes. Thanks. I’ll check it out. Probably some crossover with Irish tales, of which I have a reference text.

And I saw your comment on the other thread:

Alf Garnett. Alien Life Form Garnett? Hmmm.

@bunface

Far from undermining RTD, that would reinforce the whole series and this sort of challenge is right up Moffat’s street.

Agreed. But RTD is showrunner, so what he says takes precedent. And I can’t imagine a showrunner’s ego will let that happen.

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@miapatrick
I’d not seen that Pratchett-ism before, although I am no expert. I keep meaning to read Discworld but there’s so much of it, I’m not sure where to start.

@ps1l0v3y0u
Another writer! I liked Jackson’s LOTR but hated The Hobbit. But even the Hobbit is genius when placed next to that Amazon atrocity.

And, yeah, agree that Who has never been anywhere close to hard sci-fi really, but it has leaned into the fantasy element more and more as the show has progressed.

At the end of the day, if the stories are good and have good internal logic, I’m happy. I think a series of Who based on English, Welsh or Irish folk horror would be epic, but I do love The Daemons.

Btw, what was that Welsh (?) folk text you previously mentioned on another thread?

@bunface

I like the two mums theory. However, if RTD does pull something out of the bag next season, I’ll still be annoyed. Cake and eat it comes to mind. I think that the main threads for a season should be wrapped up in that season. I don’t mind some side threads being carried over (e.g. Flood). I don’t know that Christmas will change the narrative all that much because:

1. Moffat us writing it and wouldn’t unilaterally undermine the whole of RTDs season.

2. Christmas eps tend to be standalone and a bit fluffy.

But I’ve been wrong before. Many times.

 

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@thane16

I really, really would’ve liked the carol to have been used a little more.

Yes. It’s a great piece. Probably better for the Christmas episode though. Don’t give up hope yet.

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@blenkinsopthebrave

I do not really want to see fairies on Who

I’m similarly minded. Although wasn’t there a Torchwood episode with evil fae in it? I may have imagined this…

And, as @ps1l0v3y0u mentioned previously, I’d also prefer more science in the Sci-Fi part of Who. I also would like to see less of the romance angle unless it can be worked well into the plot. It’s been a bit overdone in recent seasons IMHO.

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@wolvesarerunning

I loved the scene in Empire of Death with the mother in the tent.

Hands down the best scene in the ep imo.

One other thing, I don’t think has been mentioned yet. Wasn’t Ruby’s father called Garnet? Could just be RTD being playful, but Ruby and Garnet? Seems like it could / should have additional meaning.

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@thane16

I wasn’t flashing my post grad creds, just pointing out that the EoD script as is would not have passed muster on my specific course.

I think that having an 8 ep season has meant that RTD may have had to cut things that would otherwise have improved the overall storyline. Maybe.

I presume the 8 eps was because Gatwa wasn’t available but, if so, then maybe pick another actor.

My view is that the level of bombast coming out of the DW prod team and  RTD were at the expense of the writing. It’s almost as if the teasing of the fans was their focus, rather than telling an entertaining story.

The finale is a great example of this. Prior to the eps airing, it was all about the greatest threat, the high stakes and the emotional pull. None of that played out on screen. And that’s down to the writer’s choices: he chose to make Ruby’s mum an ordinary person, he chose to let the Doctor kill the most fearsome adversary by taking it for walkies with the Tardis, and he chose to reuse the Avengers Thanos plotline so everyone lives. Choices.

Perhaps he needs someone to rein him in a bit, or at least provide a counterpoint or an arm around the shoulder. It’s a tough job writing anything well, and Who has it’s specific foibles, so I have sympathy. But, objectively, the season has been a middling success.

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And back to the ep.

Not sure why RTD suggested watching that list of eps. prior to watching the finale. The only link to Spearhead From Space was the “Who 1” numberplate from Bessie, that we saw briefly in the memory TARDIS.

My heart sank a bit when it was revealed that not only Earth but the whole Universe was affected. Again.

And where was 14 while all this was going on?

I wasn’t invested enough in the characters to have any kind of emotional response when Ruby left. I think the series has been much too short to develop any sense of bond between the Doc and Ruby. So her leaving carried no weight. Suprising really as RTD has normally done this aspect very well.

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@thane16

but is that our problem rather than the writer’s, I wonder…?

The writer’s. Definitely. Like @craig, I too have an MA in scriptwriting. If I’d submitted this ep for comment, it would have been returned with copious notes, one if which would have intimated that it was really a first draft.

@mudlark, @blenkinsopthebrave

I’ve previously stated that this forum could write a killer ep of Doctor Who. There is such a breadth of knowledge on here on a range of topics, as well as a level of intelligence and a willingness to engage in a collegiate way.

I think it would be a lot of fun and, if what we were to produce was not as good as we hoped, then we’d at least gain insight into the process of writing Who.

Not sure of the practicalities of how thus would work, but I’m happy to try.

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First impressions? Very underwhelming.

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@mudlark

That link is terrific. Very clever use of language. Science based puns.

“and the reciprocal of Pi to your good wife” Love it.

I confess I’d not heard of these two gentlemen before, so many thanks for broadening my horizons.

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@mudlark

 I am, however, broadly familiar with the ideas concerning time and entropy and it has always seemed to me logical that the two were aspects of the same thing.

I was unsure whether to include my cod-scientific definitions – I assumed you’d probably be aware of the terms, but I wasn’t 100% and I reasoned it was better to include for completeness.

Regarding Novelli, The Order of Time only has one equation (as does a Brief History of Time I recall), and it is:

ΔS ≥ 0

which Rovelli goes on to explain as “Delta S is always greater than or equal to zero” aka the 2nd principal of Thermodynamics.

Anyhoo, let me know what you think.

@thane16

In ancient China and India, scales and units of measurements were viewed as part of an overarching principle of cosmic music similar to Plato’s Occidental theory where the relations between musical intervals, the characters and sound of particular scales, of numbers, influenced nature and society but also individuals right down to ‘singing tones’ believed to exist within the walls of flesh of the tiniest animals and within the building blocks of humans

Fascinating. And, yes it does sound like Ruby.  And your missing post might be in Spam – see @craig for help.

@blenkinsopthebrave

So the question is: how many things will I get wrong? Probably all

Hey. You’re on a roll my friend.

My predictions:

Well Omega…

I think the TARDIS portal will come into play again. Either Ruby will go through the one at UNIT HQ and end up exiting the TARDIS in the time window, and then find out who left her at the Church. I don’t think she’ll find it’s her mother there and agree that she will have been left by some prescient being (or prescient being’s minion) for reasons TBD.

OR the Doctor will transport Sutekh into the time window by the same route and then get rid of him, probably by taping over Ruby’s VHS with an episode of EastEnders.

And, I wonder if there is another Pantheon member / god even more powerful than Sutekh, that we still haven’t seen.

The 3rd Doctor tie-in is a bit of a puzzle though Maybe it will be the return of Bessie. Although I did manage to find this:

In the original broadcast of episode two, the first fifteen seconds of Fleetwood Mac‘s “Oh Well (Part One)” can be heard during scenes in the Auto Plastics factory.

Music again.

 

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@thane16

Well that’s an interesting idea. A bit too Rory for RtD to use it again I’d say. But you never know.

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@mudlark

I’m also interested in physics and cosmology

Have you read any Carlo Rovelli? He’s an Italian Theoretical Physicist, who writes generally accessible books on Physics.

If not, start with Seven Brief Lesson on Physics and if you enjoy that then The Order of Time and Reality is Not What it Seems (though the latter is more challenging). Interestingly, The Order of Time postulates that time as we perceive it does not exist, particularly the flow of time, and what we are experiencing is actually Entropy.  Entropy is a measure of the useful work in the system* (inversely proportional), and it never decreases. What this means is that the amount of useful work in a closed system always reduces, ultimately to zero. e.g. the heat death of the universe.

This is on the face of it a simple concept but it has profound implications for all of Physics, and Rovelli uses this to explain his theory. It’s quite a short book, but I found it fascinating.

* Entropy was once explained to me as a measure of the disorder / chaos of a system. The more disorder / chaos, the higher the entropy. As an example consider a snooker table, all set up and ready to play. The first player breaks, and the balls are scattered all over the smooth baize. Maybe some go into pockets. ie there is more chaos after the break than before. The entropy of the snooker table has increased. And, crucially it will never decrease, unless an external influence resets the table ready for the next game. But, in that instance, the system (snooker table) is no longer a closed system. I find this a bit easier to imagine (and therefore understand) than the “useful work” definition above.

 

So, getting back to Who, it seems that the TARDIS is less a time machine, and more of an Entropy traversing machine.  And, of course, Entropy has been a theme of Who before – certainly in the classic era.

But getting back to the episode in question – two performances stand out. Firstly, Bonnie Langford as Mel showed the most agency of any of the characters, certainly more than she showed in the one or two eps I’d seen of her with the 6th / 7th Doctors. I wonder if this is significant in some way – may RTD is trying to redress the balance of Mel away from her personification in the Classic era. Or, maybe it is more significant than that, and Mel will be a key part of the finale. Ruby’s mum?

The performance that stood out for me was Jemma Redgrave – absolutely terrific. Lots of non-verbal cues in her acting, which is great to see. Owns the screen when she is on it (see also 73 yards).

Shout out to Susan Twist too.

And, as a counterpoint, I do think the ep suffered a bit from the multitude of characters in the Unit scenes. A lot of them were barely used, and a couple could have been trimmed quite easily. Also, I found the continuous technobabble “stability of the time window has deteriorated by 0.1 parsecs” type-thing a bit grating. Minor quibbles though.

And, a final cat-amongst-the-pigeons point (which I saw elsewhere) Susan Triad is an anagram of Rani’s Dust. With an extra a.

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Ah. Just noticed  @mudlark has beaten me to this by a few days, and all while undertaking detailed cartography.

I need to up my Forum game.

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Saw an RTD post where he stated that there were 5 eps you should watch prior to the finale part deux.

They are:

“Bad Wolf/The Parting of the Ways” and “The Bells of Saint John” to showcase finale stories and the adventure’s modern London setting.

Jon Pertwee’s Third Doctor debut “Spearhead From Space” as an introduction to UNIT stories.

“A Good Man Goes To War” for its familial reveal twist, and “The Church on Ruby Road”

Seems an odd list, and I’m not sold on RTDs reasons, particularly remembering back to the other rumour about a 3rd Doc tie-in in the finale.

SfS was an Auton adventure…so make of that what you will.

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I also spotted the name of a pub during the Time Window sequence. Spinning Wheel maybe. I’ve not had a chance to rewatch.

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Well good to see Omega Sutekh make a reappearance. As I predicted (not). But that’s OK. As I said to @blenkinsopthebrave “being wrong’s just the bits inbetween” (well done btw)

Having a think about what could urm materialise in the 2nd part. Some good discussion already.

A couple of thoughts: Red Tardis / Blue Tardis = Red shift / blue shift?

And re the Doctor not yet having a child but having a granddaughter:

Bear with me here, as I am trying to recall an episode of Atom (I think) with Jim Al-Khalili. Anyhoo, in that show it was explained that observation of quantum particles / light can influence (change) the outcome. See also two slit experiment.

Further humans can now observe light that has travelled a long way (and is therefore very old), so therefore it is possible that our observation of said past light alters it’s path and so perhaps our present. IIRC this was extrapolated in Atom to suggest that humans observation of the “past” somehow altered it and thereby caused the human race to come into being. This is all very timey-wimey, but implies that cause and effect are not linear in the sense we understand.

So the Doc having a granddaughter before he has a daughter is potentially explainable. Or something.

 

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@ps1l0v3y0u @blenkinsopthebrave

As much as I’d love to see this, Sutekh is 4th Doc though, and we’ve been told it’s something to do with the 3rd.

So, I’m going to bring back the O-word again. Yes, you’ve guessed it: Ogrons. From Day of the Daleks (written by Louis Marks, with Terence Dicks as Script Editor).  And then in Frontier in Space, written by Malcolm Hulke, with Dicks again as Script Editor.  This latter show also featured the Delgado Master….hmm maybe @blenkinsopthebrave you will get your wish.

I’ve given absolutely zero thought as to how they could be used however.

Of course, if I was to add up all the times I had been wrong

Being wrong’s just the bits in-between.

 

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@blenkinsopthebrave

I didn’t make it to Vancouver Island, though heard it was lovely. Far easier for me to drive to Vancouver than to ferry across to the Island from West Coast U.S.

 

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The Season 1 / 14 / 40  Finale Theory

An attempt at tying some of the disparate threads together:

Omega has been trapped for millennia in an antimatter universe but waiting for a chance to escape (he is The One Who Waits).

He eventually finds a way back in, say via the Timeless Child portal, at the same time that the 14th Doctor sprinkles the salt at the edge of the Universe. This salting prevents Omega’s anti-matter self from being annihilated, and his very presence then alters our current universe, leading to various anachronisms like “mavity”, Goblins, additional Doctor et al. (some timey-wimey needed here).

His plan was to wipe out the Time Lords but, upon finding that Gallifrey and all of them were gone, Omega searched the universe for any remaining TLs finding only the 14th Doctor.

He decided against a direct attack (due to the fact that the Doctor has defeated him twice previously), so created the Pantheon and used the Meep, and Toymaker to try and wipe the Doctor out. Omega then interfered with the subsequent regeneration in an attempt to kill 14, but instead caused the bi-generation.

14 then goes into hiding (Chameleon arch) and is disguised as Mrs Flood.

Omega engineers a sim-Ruby and arranges for one of the Pantheon to leave her at the Church, meddling with time to ensure sim-Ruby and the Doctor meet up. After Maestro fails to kill Doctor 15, Omega tries a change of strategy. He sends sim-Ruby and the Doctor on a series of simulations (based in part on the Doctor’s past) which Omega is using to find the Doctor’s weaknesses. This culminates in a showdown at Unit HQ where Omega wins and everyone is killed a piece of the 3rd Doctor’s sonic / Tardis is used to send Omega back to his netherworld again.

And Susan Twist is just an RTD joke.

Probably more holes than a block of Swiss cheese, and (almost) certainly wrong. And, yes, I have got too much time on my hands.

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@blenkinsopthebrave

Enjoy the wine. I used to visit Vancouver many years ago – a great city. And (bah!) yes Shalka.

@janetteb

The alt Doctor is the “big bad”

I like this very much.

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Bonkers Theories

1. Ruby Is Susan
2. Mrs Flood is Susan
3. Susan Twist is Susan (seeing a theme here)
4. Ruby is another of the Timeless Children.
5. The Doctor and Ruby are in an alternative universe
6. The Doctor and Ruby are trapped in a machine
7. The Doctor and Ruby are trapped in a game
8. The Doctor and Ruby are in a simulation
9. The Doctor is part of a wider Pantheon cf Cartmel.
10. An AI-generated reality, based on the Doctor’s life / Doctor Who the TV Show (Meta)
11. The “extra” Doctor in the face scan is the one from Shada, or the Valeyard.
12. Return of AN Other Timelord e.g. Master, Omega
13. A Godlike creature pulling all the strings.

Probably missed a lot of theories out, and apologies to anyone I’ve missed off the list.

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What’s been observed / themes

1. The Doctor cries. A lot.
2. Music permeates the stories
3. Snow
4. The Doctor puts his foot in it / steps on things.
5. The Doctor may not be the only Great saviour / he’s been ineffective in saving people.
6. Mavity
7. Toys
8. Salt at the end of the universe which means fantasy / myth are bleeding into the universe.

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@mudlark @janetteb @juniperfish @ps1l0v3y0u @blenkinsopthebrave @cathannabel @thane16

@scaryb @devilishrobby @dentarthurdent @krathoon @miapatrick @cookgroom @bunface @orionhunt @fozzyb @bobbyfatv2 @spacedmunkee @craig

 

Thought I’d do a recap ahead of the two-part finale.

What needs clearing up:

1. Who is Ruby’s mother / mysterious woman who dropped her at the church
2. And, by extension, who is Ruby?
3. Who is Mrs Flood, and why does she know what a TARDIS is?
4. Why does the same face / person keep appearing in each episode (aka the Susan Twist mystery)?
5. Are the Doctor and Ruby in an altered / alternate reality and, if so, what is the nature of that?
6. Who is The One who Waits?
7. Why was there an additional Doctor in the faces scan in Rogue?

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@thane16

Apologies. Meant to add you to my previous post

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@mudlark @janetteb @juniperfish @ps1l0v3y0u @blenkinsopthebrave @cathannabel

And still think music may be important.

and

the Doctor crying

Cry me a River….

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@mudlark @juniperfish @janetteb @blenkinsopthebrave
@ps1l0v3y0u

would the crazy machine from Carnival of Monsters fit the bill??

I like this. Maybe Unit finds it behind an old filing cabinet buried under a pile of the 3rd Doc’s frilly shirts and capes? And next to a bi-generated Delgado Master. And Omega 🙂

I am increasingly convinced that what we are watching is some alternative / altered reality. Whether that’s an AI generated version of the Docs life, or he’s somehow crossed universes, or he’s in a game or a machine, or it’s a simulation,  are all in play. But…if so, it does feel a bit like a rehash of previously used ideas.

I’m quite looking forward to the finale, and am hopeful it will deliver a satisfying resolution.

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@blenkinsopthebrave

Delgado would be great. Still the best Master. I really enjoyed his and Pertwee’s verbal sparring.

 

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@devilishrobby

This is the thing now: given the Timeless Child plotline, then the TLs can be recreated from the Doc’s DNA at any point. We don’t have to bring the old ones back, just create a whole new set.

I’m a bit 50-50 on bringing the TLs back in whatever form (except Omega, but no-one’s buying that). I did wonder if all the hoohar (Whohar?) around Millie Gibson’s departure is all smoke and mirrors, and that maybe she will regenerate at the end of this season, or early next.

And, talking of other TLs, isn’t the Doctor’s daughter still out there? Maybe she’s re-Jenny-rated into Ruby?

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@krathoon

I had a similar theory, namely that the entire season is in some kind of fictional world.

And, as I have also posted elsewhere, I am also offering up the return of Omega as the One Who Waits.

@mudlark

I’ve never thought your writing was old fashioned. Your postings on here have a mellifluous quality, and are always well considered.

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Well, that was quite charming.

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@ps1l0v3y0u

The Trinity seems to have been an attempt to keep both monotheists and neoplatonists on board. Otherwise it would be 2 if not 1. Add Mary (to butter up the egyptians) and you have 4… doesn’t sound good in Cantonese though.

2 brothers crop up a lot: Romulus and Remus, Hengist and Horsa, Hrothgar (Hamlet) and Helgi. It’s an indo european destiny trope. Man does incredibly significant thing while bro turns up his toes.

One is one and all alone.

Three would seem to be a Celtic thing… all over the Mabinogion. Arthur’s family in Geoffrey seem to be a deconstructed triad: 3 kings; holy, warrior, lover.

Mind you… 3 little pigs…

3 is the magic number too…

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@ps1l0v3y0u

Understand about the power of three. It’s funny that the #3 is so ingrained in humans though. Father, Son and Holy Ghost etc. and way back further I’m sure.

I wonder why?

But Omega…that’d be kinda good if done well.

The trajectory in the quality of eps is going exponential I’d say…

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For those that are interested in this sort of thing, link to ratings.

https://www.doctorwhotv.co.uk/uk-doctor-who-ratings-2024-101452.htm

I think these are BBC only and include some data for people who watched on iPlayer and recorded the show. So UK streamed Disney are not included, I think. I don’t know the provenance either.

My 2c: it seems that the figures are a lagging indicator, and may highlight how well the previous ep was received. So Moffat’s ep suffered due to the poor reception to TDC, and then 73 yards gained audience due to the well-received Boom.

I did a couple of check, and the raw numbers are already being used to batter the show. Plus ca change….

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@ps1l0v3y0u

Omega – isn’t he still trapped in an alt Universe somewhere? Is he the One who waits?

I’d much prefer this to a Susan return tbh – I think the Susan Twist thing is a massive RTD joke.

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@ps1l0v3y0u

Maybe Bardot’s going to rock up in the last ep as an older version of Susan (one for @janetteb there)?

Bardot was in the movie Doctor at Sea, but that’s VERY tenuous. And of course And God Created Woman. Any ideas? No? Me neither?

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@bunface

It probably says something about the whole Who audience, which is what the reboot is now addressing overall

Interesting thought. If RTD is addressing this in show, it’s a more subtle approach than Chibnall would have taken (Doctor enters, shouts “Racism is BAD”, and exits)

I work in a large city and it’s highly multicultural, but I live in an area substantially less so. When I first moved here, the transition to a different demographic was pretty noticeable,  but now not so much.

Any piece of art that makes you think is good, so hat tip to RTD.

And the funny thing is that people will be complaining about this ep on their socials, completely oblivious…

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I’ve been thinking about the alphabet killer AI and their M.O. Why create the spiky slug monsters?

Surely it would have been easier for them to use the bubble sat nav to direct the humans(?) off a cliff.

When the Doc was trying to figure out the pattern of the killings, I thought back to one of the characters who mentioned Aqua Marina (I think). I presumed this was a drink containing a slug-repelling substance and that was why the people weren’t being targetted.

Incidentally, Aqua Marina was a character in the ITV puppet show Stingray. That character’s design was based on Brigitte Bardot. I can’t see any obvious reason why RTD would include this. Theories welcome.

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That was the episode they should have started with, (but I know why they didn’t). A linear plot and some monsters for the young ‘uns, some social media and influencer vibes for the tweens and some social commentary for the older crowd.

And, not one, but two of the darkest moments in Who at the end. The betrayal of Ricky, and then the almost throwaway racist comment at the end, which brought the ep into a new focus, at least for me. It took me a few secomds to process what was going on. And it wasn’t the Docs reaction but Rubys that nailed it for me. That hesitant reach out and light touch on the Doc’s arm spoke volumes about her and his characters.

And it was only at that point that I realised all of Lindy’s friends and socials were white. And then it all made sense. Brilliant.

I don’t know if that says something about me though…thought provoking Who. Perfect.

 

 

 

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@craig

Thanks for the save of my post

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I just wrote a long post which disappeared when I edited it. Best post ever it was too.

Anyhoo. That last 5 minutes was great. I am glad they referenced the Doctor’s skin colour / race. Nicely done.

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Well I quite liked it. Some random thoughts:

A fairly obvious meditation on social media, but well done.

Another Doctor lite episode, that’s a quarter of the entire run. RTD must have really wanted Ncuti.

The slug-cochroach monsters had a very 1970s Who vibe.

Liked the way Ricky September’s character was subverted. No dumb pop singer, he. Did anyone else get the vibes of Luke Skywalker fighting the drone with his helmet on in the Falcon?

Lots of unlikeable characters which meant I was not really invested in them surviving their ordeal. But see below.

I thought I heard the phrase “The river to the sea” which,  if correct, is an interesting political aspect.

Lots of plot holes, and things left unexplained, per RTD stories.

The Susan Twist character died apparently, so not sure whatbthis means for any season arc or theme.

We see the Doctor in his signature costume, at last. Hope he keeps wearing this now.

The episode was, for me, a bit like a reverse 73 Yards (37 yards? sdraY 37?), in that, whereas I enjoyed most of 73 but felt like the last few minutes let it down, this was the complete reverse.  That last five minutes! The realisation that everyone was horribly bigoted was done very well indeed. I’m glad they have referenced the Doctor’s skin colour / race in shoe (this wasn’t really done for Jodie Whittaker and her gender)

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@mudlark

a medieval hazel nut, one of several preserved with other organic finds in the waterlogged gunge filling an eleventh century cess pit.

Sounds somewhat more entertaining that a couple of the Indiana Jones movies.

I’ve written a screenplay with a lead who is a female antiquities expert. It’s currently been submitted in a couple of competitions and I’m hoping to get the chance to pitch it at the Melbourne Film Festival in August. It’s a long shot and you have to pre-apply but I’m going all out this year. If nothing comes of it, at least I’ll know I’ve tried. My plan would then be to turn it into a novel.

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@mudlark

Sorry to be so boringly pedantic but trust me, I’m an archaeologist

Please tell me you’ve been chased from a temple by a giant boulder. 🙂

 

@juniperfish

On the other hand – parthenogenesis?

Virgin birth? That would be interesting territory for Who.

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@mudlark

 If there was a hypothetical entry point in time when the sequence had a beginning, then I don’t see how Ruby-the-mother at that initial point could have been her own child

Although the idea has its attractions, I tend to agree about the paradox. But (there’s always a but), we are now in a realm of fantasy Who, so…magic. I will be disappointed if they go down this route as it is often narratively unsatisfying, unless there are well-defined rules.

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@juniperfish

I was one of those who really hated the Timeless Child concept when Chibs floated it, because I was (and am) emotionally invested in the historical presentation of the Doctor, not as different from his/her people in some super-special (the dreaded midichorians) genetic way, but because of their renegade anarchistic attitude to stuffy Time Lord hierarchy. I’ve always loved Dr. Who because I wanted a rebel, not a superhero.

This. 100%. Very well articulated.

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@blenkinsopthebrave

So, the question then becomes “save herself from what?” The “what” must be bad given she’ll end up in re-occurring time loop.

I feel like I’m missing some key bit of information, but at the same time already have enough information to be able to piece together what is happening.  It’s maddening.

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@craig

Couple of things for your consideration:

1. I just posted(on 73 yards) and noticed that when I referenced other members in a row ie:

@member1 @member2 @member3

then it only added a hyperlink to @member1. So, I edited my post to now read:

@member1

@member2

@member3

and all were hyperlinked. Don’t know if this is significant, just thought it best to mention it.

2. Could you add the Homes > Forums > General (etc.) hyperlinks that you have at the top of the page, to also appear at the bottom of the page. It would save people having to scroll all the way back up to navigate away.

 

[WhoHar @replies]

And following that thread, it could be that the mysterious woman is another being from the other side of the portal (where Tecteun found the child Doctor) and brought her to Earth because of…reasons. Maybe their world was about to be destroyed and she wanted to save her child. A bit Superman but, hey, Who has always recycled ideas.

[WhoHar @replies]

@ps1l0v3y0u

 before Moffat was cut off at the knees

Ooh, tell me more.

@mudlark

@janetteb

@blenkinsopthebrave

@ps1l0v3y0u

On the Ruby question, I tend to agree with Mudlark on this. Otherwise, why show the scan on screen – it must be for a reason. Obviously, there is plenty of scope for jiggery-pokery with Ruby’s species from what we’ve seen in previous Who – in which case the DNA might be a red herring (although I would consider this a bit of a cheat if that’s the route they go down.)

I’m really hoping Ruby is not TL or related to the Timeless Child storyline. However, given we know very little about the TC, then there is plenty of opportunity should RTD want to double down on that.

@blenkinsopthebrave

I like this idea but, if so, it means Ruby abandoned herself. To what end?

[Author]

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