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Hmmm right had a few of bonkers thoughts sparked by the discussion on whether Susan susan has the ability to regenerate or is an ordinary gallifreyan. I apologise if this has already proposed but i thought I would get it off my chest so to speak.

1. the Master said in the episode Sound of the Drums, i think it was, that timelords were exposed to the untamed schism of the time vortex in a ceromony on gallifey.

2. Melody Pond/ River Song was given timelord like regenerative powers by her exposure to the time vortex when being concieved in the tardis.

Now this third piece of information I am not too sure of its canonisity.
3. I seem to remember but I think it was in a good man goes to war, the doctor saying that the gallifeyan timelords developed the ability to regenerate in response to exposure to the time vortex on gallifey.

Now given these facts it came to mind that Susan could have developed full regenerative abilities by her gallifreyan heritage being exposed to the time vortex during her travels in the tardis.

The other and this is a more bonkers thought could Clara be susan chameleon arched. Yeah I know this is proberly so far off base but it could explain how she survived being in the doctors timestream in the first place.

Feel free to play with these thoughs 🙂

oops looks like others had some similar thoughts whilst i was typing this

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Hmm not sure what to think of this episode. In the main I think I liked it. It makes a good standalone episode but doesn’t appear to have any interconnection with any events elsewhere (yet). Though about halfway through we were going to have two more candidates for Missy but was pleasantly surprised when they showed up alive and well.
Had one thought though, has the tracker cured the doctors memory problems. At one point I almost got the impression that the doctor had a secondary motive for wanting the tracker to scan him but wasn’t sure what it was.

Will definitely have to watch again to see if there’s anything I’ve missed.

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Can’t resist putting my twopennuth worth in on the degree of 9’s newness in the “Rose” episode. I think he had been around for a while as @drben said Clive seemed to have an archive of what appeared to be 9 having been around for some time at least on earth.

As to the ears thing which I didn’t think much of at the time has bought to mind a comment by wardoc as he begins to regen about big ears. So perhaps it’s something like the ginger thing the doctor has he doesn’t like big ears.

Other than that it just felt like he had been around for a while.

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@wolfweed I bow to your obvious superior knowledge lol that that will teach me to re back read any entries made after my last post b4 adding any flash pan enteritis 🙂 🙁

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Oh one other thing I also caught what I interpreted as a nod to the doctor who legacy game 🙂 but then it is in part co made by the BEEB

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Right just caught up as of the time I started to write this all the comments, though I am sure more may be added whilst I write.

@scaryb and @brewski and others I agree orson does not necessarily have to be directly related to Clara though this may be an option I think it more probable he is a direct descendent to Danny who has been a companion of the doctor.

As to the young boy in the barn I am fairly sure that this is the doctor and who says the barn has to be the barn in Day of the Doctor it just may have triggered a memory in Clara and set a precedence of the doctor liking barns as hiding places. My impression was that the DOTD barn was away from gallifrey in order to be able to destroy it and the Dalek’s.

The next bit is more of speculation dependant on what has been accepted into the production teams cannon. If some of the official books like Lungbarrow have been included, I think that high ranking timelord “families” are born from something called I think it was called the genetic loom. My apologies if I have the name wrong and those more wholore knowledgable will be able to correct me.

Anyway back to the original speculation Lungbarrow was the name of the “group” house the doctor was born into as I remember, so the boy in the barn could from this house which in part sounded much like this … Yes I know I’ve probably made a right hash at what I am trying to say.

Another thought that has occurred to me at the end of the DOTD it wasn’t established what exactly happened to the Moment.(raises eyebrow in querulous speculation)

Right better go before this becomes more confusing that it already probably is.. :devil:

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By the way do not whatever you do watch this episode listen ending with high fidelity stereo headphones on it scared the bejezums out of me lol.

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Omg omg omg let loose the dogs of speculative bonkerising.

What a incredible episode taking us all back to the hide behind the sofa to watch Who days. Or in this case pull your legs up on the sofa and hold them.

Jenna’s performance was outstanding, as was Cappalidi’s.

As to further thoughts they definitely need a re watching before I can make any coherent thoughts and bonkerisining.

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Forgot to click on notify me to follow the thread in emails 🙁

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Well just managed to watch the episode on holiday at the mo worth no internet and shock horror no mobile signal at the cottage.

My first Impressions of this episode a much lighter in tone then I thought hmm maybe not so much we definitively saw maybe just a tad bit of jelousy from the doctor that Clara might just have some kind of interest in another man.

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@brewski oh lol that made me laugh and the reasoning actually works if SM is actually twisted enough to use it.

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@wolfweed please tell me that Dalek was being built as some kind of wicker man effigy to be burned ceremoniously by some strange whovians cult . 😉 ;p

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@janetteb as I Remember they have done the lets travel inside the doctor before in BG who I think it was a TBaker who episode but can’t quite remember the story I am afraid.

As to miniaturisation it’s been a common theme through out Who essentially Carnival of monsters occurs when the tardis materialises within some kind computerised exhibition. 🙂 devilish 👿

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Hmmm some of the comments and a rewatching of the episode have been tugging at an idea in my brain.

The doctors reference to Clara’s age and some of the previous comments have made me think that just perhaps the doctor actually knows there is now something more to Clara other than her having been in his timeline. As someone has previously noted (apologies as I don’t remember who) SM rarly givs out a throw away line. So the doctors reference to her age might just have something more to it. As to exactly what this might be I am not sure, I am sure one of our more cerebral genius members might be able to make something of it. It’s just I am reminded when the doctor realised Amy was not Amy he kept stum for quite a while before letting on.

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@geoffers I think I can answer the recognition part remember the final part of the regeneration occurred in the tardis so at this point in the cap docs timeline they haven’t seen each other yet therefore no possibility of recognition. Also remember the Dalek’s memory banks at least initially were a bit scrambled hence the “good” Dalek and probable reason for inability to identify the doctor.

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@purofilion I apologise for the way I poorly phrased my thoughts on Clara’s slapping the doctor as I abohour domestic violence (I have unfortunately seen the results of it in my professional life too often). I was trying to say I think that Clara was reacting to the doctors attitude and demeanour as if he had slapped her and she was lashing back. Her whole body language to me spoke as if she was saying how dare you do that.

I do however wish SM and the who production team had found another way of getting this concept across. The show has a large younger and impressionable audience and given her impassioned speech following the slap should have been enough I think some of its impact was lessened by the shock of seeing one of his companions committing such an act. Yes the Doctor needed a wake-up call but it did not need to be punctuated by an act of violence to get the message across.
I do wonder though if SM added the slap just to provoke this sort of discussion/reaction as the show has in the past broached or had the doctor and his companions involved in things that have had a moral dimension.

Apologies for any offence caused and regards devilish.

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Lol @Blueseakpip,

Sorry my grammar does tend to go to pot when I am responding to posts. More so as I am usually responding here from my iPad and it’s got the worst keyboard system and I thend to end up typing blind. Also grammar check ie non existent.

When I am on the computer I use word and generally use both the spell checker and it’s gammar corrector. But my main problem as you’ve probably noticed I will tend produce long rambling sentences. So my humblest apologies for any past or future faux pas.

But on another note on the “slapgate” issues I think like a lot of who viewers I was initially shocked, but after some thought yes violence is not the way to win any argument but I think in this instance Clara let her frustration at the way the doctor has been behaving. To Clara this is not the way he behaves after being used to Mattdoc for so long.

Some have commented on Clara’s apparent problem with the fact that the Doctor has changed especially as she has been in the doctors personal time stream and seen “all the faces of the Doctor”. I’ve been thinking that perhaps she only has vague memory of her time in the time stream.

Just as a by the by does anyone know how the doctor and Clara got out of the time stream. That was always one of the issues that bugged me about the DOTD there was no explanation on how they got out it just jumped from the reveal of Hurt as the war doc to the opening of DOTD.

Sorry for my usual rambling it’s sure probably annoyed someone lol.

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@bluesqueakpip wow what a summation of your thinking on the past and present doctors. From my earlier comments you can probably surmise I agree with your assessment that Capdoc seems into the main have reverted to an early Hartnellesk though with just enough touches of something new. When we the viewers first met Hartnell’s doctor he had an aloofness that appeared to be pretty common to the timelord race which he appeared to lose as his tenure as the doctor went on. It’s my feeling that Clara’s and that of any of his companions role/job is now to provide that humanising influence. Remember in TDOTD when wardoc was bickering and being sarcastic with tendoc and mattdoc, mattdoc said this is why he travelled with companions.Its my belief his companions ground the doctor out of this sense of constant superiority which seems to be endemic in the timelord psyke. The doctor sort of admitted this when he said to Clara without any elaboration that he needed her when he went to pick her up from the school. It was if he knew he needed something from Clara after seeing the damaged Dalek.

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Ooooh @phaseshift just got down to your post now there’s a thought could Missy actually be one of the Gaurdians. I am sure some On my way! Will find some reasoning for this not to be true but it does have a certain appeal especially since the doctor has acted as an agent for the white Guardian, but which will she be light or dark hmmm.
Oh and is Mz blues first name journey, I thought it was Jenny

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Only managed to watch the episode this morning for the first time as real life commitments got in the way :(. Anyway onto my initial reaction was suddenly not like capaldidoc at the the start of the episode there was something that made me uncomfortable but I couldn’t put my finger on what it was. Then as the episode went on I found myself thinking yes this is the doctor much like the early Hartnell with a very alien almost cold and calculating feel. This is more pronounced than how I felt in the first episode and I was thinking to myself well if the Timelords have effectively reset his regeneration cycle and as I am sure can be seen in discussion elsewhere he has basically reverted to a personality similar to how he was when we first met the doctor in the Hartnell period then it makes sense. When the Dalek said he saw the Drs hatred we were seeing the anger in his memory from the time war and post time war period this is what made it say the Dr was a better Dalek I am sure this has been said to the Dr before. However I’m got the feeling that at this stage that even the doctor is still struggling with who he is hence his asking Clara the question of whether he was a good man.

Did anyone else notice the crack in the radiation housing was very similar to the cracks in time, though I am unsure if this has any significance.

Clara’s slap across the Doctors face made me think perhaps there’s something to the theory she is another clarical it’s as if the slap bought the doctor around from making a terrible mistake.

As for Missy I am totally confused as to what her role is to be and who she might be.

Oh and Danny Pink a pre-reincarnation of the brother of jenny blue oh where is that going to lead or mean? Yes I can see he is going to be a companion for how long we will have to see ie is he and Clara going to become a new Ian and Barbara? Somehow I think not but given the doctors refusal of Jenny Blues request to accompany him on the grounds of her military background there’s going to have to be some reason other than Clara quite obviously is attracted to him.
Hmm that my initial thoughts and ruminations looking forward to reading more posts 🙂

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On the matter of the historical accuracy. As far as I am concered yes it takes place in our world but it is a fictional world after all, so a degree of artistic licence can be taken with events. Anyway one way of explaining why no one “remembers”events is that all of them are paradoxes so cannot be retained in memory and “time”if you will removes the evidence or at least fudges the reason for death and destruction.
Oh I do hope that makes sense. 🙂

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Ah just because it’s a psychic manestification doesn’t necessarily mean it doesn’t have physicality therefore it may have organic parts. A good psychic manestification would be able to stand upto physical examination lol. But as I said initially it was a fleeting thought not necessarily thought entirely through but I thought I’d put it out there to see what others might do with it.
For some reason I’m not liking Missy as a version of the Master not for any specific reason other than it just doesn’t feel right and from what we’ve seen from SM yes he goes for convoluted story arcs and he likes twisting our brains into pretzels but I suspect it will end up being something even more timeywimmy and twisted.

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Right this bonkerish thought has been stimulated by the talk that the dinosaur is somehow Missy.
My thought originally was is it a real dinosaur or a chameleon disgusted tardis especially give rumours around that the master is returning,there are precedents for one tardis being inside another after all especially where the master is involved.

I then got to thinking about Missy and there being a mental link with the Doctor and suddenly thought could the dinosaur have really been a phsyic projection by missy….

Uh ho there goes my head again about to explode with wild ideas.

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@flirtingdinosaur I’ve always wondered that and who is to say River really did use all her regenerations healing the Dr of the judas poison. River may not be actually be permanently ensconced in the library mainframe. Given the fact that the mainframe was starting to breakdown until the Dr fixed things by getting the Nas verada (and yes I know I probably mangled the name)and river took his place to stop the self destruct and to let all the saved ppl escape the library. Wouldn’t it be possible that in the long term for the process to have sent her a bit “batty”. Oh let’s be honest here at the moment there’s too many lovely possibilities as to who and what Missy really is. Aargh I think my head is going to implode with all these bonkerish thoughts. I seem to have half a dozen more but just can’t seem to fully formulate them ah well after a few more episodes maybe they will coagulate

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Has anyone actually considered that the promised land might actually be a place therefore the mandroid was being literal. Oops oh yes I think maybe someone has as wasn’t a mentioning of utopia made earlier and that it was a real place so couldn’t promised land or paradise be a place, but if you all remember utopia turned out to not be real and see what happened to all the nice ppl there…. Hmmm oh and wasn’t the master involved in that little fiasco lol

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@wolfweed oh that’s classic and the frightening thing is I actually remember the advert. @fivefaces lol you know I’d almost forgotten that aspect hehe

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@wolfweed oh lol o lol

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Lol @craig re the non issue of the kiss , well for me anyway “so what” is my attitude but that may come from my own orientation. Yes the producers of the show came up with a justification for the kiss/oxygen exchange but as I say who really cares, oh yes those ultra conservative bigots who in all probability think the show is the spawn of satan.

Oops sorry if I have offended anyone :-s

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@tardis.Pilot All I have to say or rather do is say that I feel rather sad and pity you if all you have to do is sit and criticise something you obviously cannot or have not taken the time to at least research properly, you obviously have a slight understanding of some of the precepts of the who universe but are showing massive gaps in what are relative recent events in the show.
As our emperor @craig has set up this site for those of us who are true fans. Yes we may criticise the show or an episode from time to time but usually there is some well thought out reasoning to our dislikes. But in the main we are at least polite in our critisms.

Ps my apologies to the grammar Daleks among us I make no pretenses at being an English literature major 🙂 .

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Hmm if missy is a physical manifestation of the tardis might not the garden be somewhere within the tardis itself which means the android/cyborg is in the tardis, as I doubt the doctor would have left it where it was. But if missy is the master and the android is in the tardis flash backs to chameleon come to mind and those of us who remember him know what happened there.

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@banjofiddler lol yes I caught the reference I think it was SM’s way of accepting the fact that Peter is Scottish and that the episode was going to be going out around the time of the vote. However I think it was more he was poking fun at the fact and I belive the BBC has a policy of non bias towards the issue.

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Just caught up with reading all the excellent posts as I’ve been in real life (aka work all day:( ).

Had a bit of a thought and this has implications for both Missy’s identity and the possibility of the Timelady from TEOT being the lady in the shop, in that if memory serves me right the Master actually ended up on Gallifrey fighting Rassilon at the end of TEOT and ended behind what was then thought to be the time lock. Now we all know that Gallifey has ended up frozen in a pocket universe this would mean that if Missy is the Master he has found a way back into the mainstream universe perhaps but if not then it also has the implication that the Timelady from TEOT should also be frozen still.
Yes yes I know the cracks are still present and this could work as the conduit to the mainstream universe but I thought the whole point in the TOTD was that the Timelords couldn’t use the cracks without restarting the time war.

Well I hope some wiser head than mine can sort this out ass mine has started to throb with all this , I personally hope that Missy doesn’t turn out to be gender reassigned Master just because I would love to see the introduction of a completely new villan/hero. I think the jury must still be out on which she is as we haven’t yet received enough information on her exact intentions.

Ps just a thought was the doctors daughter Jenni or even perhaps a tardises personality on that list of candidates for Missy’s identity

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My initial comment at the time was because I was typing my comment practically as the end title was finished and want sure about broadcast times in other countries and weather we were going to be expected to keep spoilers out of comments for a couple of hours lol as if that would keep fanatical whovians quiet 🙂 . Yes the reference yet again to the mysterious woman who gave Clara the phone number and the supposition it was the same person who place the add in the paper. Hmmm no doubt it will spark even more crazy theorising but let me throw a known quantity into the hat so to speak. If we all think back to TEOT and the two female Timelords who obviously were interfering or at least giving people a push in the right direction ie Donna’s gramp could it be one of them again giving a gentle push. Ah I don’t have the brains to probably work that to a fully realised theorem as it started as a random though that went through my head. no doubt one of the big guns will come up with something.

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@ smeglennon I am sorry to hear you were disappointed in the episode. on the whole I personally felt it was a brilliant setup piece. It’s got the whole doctor you’ve changed I don’t want you to change issues from Clara’s point of view. It’s an issue that was never really dealt with in the ecclestone/tennant transition and Rose, she seemed to transferred her affection for the face and personality of the new doctor at the time as so what. There wasn’t a need when to face it when smith took over but in a sense it wasn’t needed as we had two doctors who in a way were very similar in some respects both could be seen as that fanciable guy and had a sex appeal for younger characters. The transition from from Matt to Peter is not the same we’ve gone from a young guy that his female companions could plausibly fancy romantically to a doctor who will to all intents and purposes will probably engender the older father or uncle figure in all probability, though I must say Cappaldi is a fine figure of a man. I know some of you will in all probability think I am wrong in this opinion and I respect that. But to recap I felt overall I felt it was a good setup piece I think we have more to see on the development of the Cappaldi version of the doctor in the episodes to come and I still think in the long term he’s going to be a good doctor.

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No it isn’t a stupid question I actually thought the change in the title credits were actually awesome. A new doctor a new title sequence and brilliantly different but the similar at the same time.

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It wasn’t exactly your traditional who episode no, but is felt it was actually very good it dealt with an issue that needed to be got out of the way, and I’m not saying any more on that for now just in case there are ppl who discussing it will mean massive spoilers but the surprise guest was a brilliant touch. And a teaser of a new thread to come in a sense and a question posed oh I see fun times ahead.

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Are we aloud to disscuss the episode yet or has it still to air elsewhere first

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@rob that’s already been done lol in planet of the Daleks

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Hi @carlyjo welcome, if you are in Britain have cable that shows the Horror channel you can get a good sample of classic who daily as they are currently running a selection of stories from doctors 1-7.

On another note some one posted a link a while ago to the us vs them site with a game of combining pairs of images of each doctor to make the next so far I have only got to Tennantdoc and it’s driving me batty with addiction to make it to matt smith.lol has anyone else got to the end yet

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Going back a couple of posts on the matter of weather to digitally remaster or not, my understanding is in most cases the remastering is primarily to clean up the images especially where the original recording medium has deteriorated. I think in most cases calling it a digitally restored version would be better.

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Lol I’m the 4th doctor apparently

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Oh @wolfweed why did you post that match the picture game I am thourghly addicted to it only made it to an Eccleston picture grrr I will make it to smith or even Capaldi if they have a pic

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@phaseshift Oh my I nearly sprayed my cup of restorative tea through my nose when I read your theory. Oh my my ribs are still hurting from the laughing.

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@scaryb interesting post however what you have to remember BG episodes were only 25 mins long and AG episodes are generally 50 mins long with the various specials being on average 1hr long AG. It may be fun to work out which doctors have the most screen time but not necessary. WH set the presitent of three season and advised PT to only do 3 so as not to get type cast. CE only doing 1 season if you will excuse the analog with bond is a little like George Lasenby only doing on her majesty’s service both actors for whatever personal reasons decided the role was not for them long term. IMPO I think Capaldi will do at least 2 seasons as he has been interviewed in the past as being a life long fan of who and appreciates the fandom would be disappointed with him much in the same way as with ECCS. After 2 may become more problematic as he is literally too big a star to hold as with the massive increase in popularity in the show in the states will probably
See him being offered parts over there on the back of his taking on who. You have only to look at the problems they have had with Sherlock and getting Cumberbatch and Freeman together for filming since their Hollywood explosion.

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Hmmm @scaryb now you’ve got me thinking wild speculation what if the new reoccurring teacher is Ian Chestertons son or grandson it’s almost the sort of ironic homage they might do. It would also provide an almost perfect way to have the Ian make cameo appearances a bit like Bernard Cribbins grandfather to Donna Noble so to speak given that Ian would have to be in his 70’s or 80’s at this point.

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@monochromedimension wasn’t the monk some kind of proto Master OK I  have only ever watched clips from the story, but from what I could gather the Monk was  very Masterish (now there is a coined word dont blast me grammerand spelling Dalek  🙂 )

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@tomsscarf the third doctor played the third doctor in the five doctors lol

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I agree there may be a multi doctor story incorporated into the season in 2015 perhaps like (and he gasps in the cringe-worthiness of the thought) the two doctor story, and I apologise the name escapes me, with Colin Baker and Patrick Troughton. You never know Ecclston may relent, especially since he has done the role in Thor 2, and reprise his role of the doctor perhaps as a pre Rose doctor.

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ha ha given ecclestones recalitrance about even doing confrences it would surprise me if he will ever reprise his role as the ninth doctor. IMPO  given the fandom of Who it should be written into the contracts of any future actor that takes the role will make themselves available for atleast one confrence a year and at least consider being available for a special. But thats only my opinion as a hardened fan lol. If I had my way Ecclestone would have been made to do at least 3 seasons before being released but then we wouldnt have had the wonderful Tennant doctor so hey ho.

 

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@tomsscarf i don’t know if anyone else has commented about this but has anyone noticed the similarities between the “old gods” in the sevenths adventure greatest show on earth and the family of blood in the Tennant  adventure…. just a thought thats all

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