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@whohar @ps1l0v3y0u Based on what information was released, the hasty rewrite to the finale of Ncuti Gatwa’s second season was due to Gatwa’s decision not to return for a third season. But all the last-minute changes had to be stressful for RTD. So I wonder about how enthused RTD is to return. (Mind you, I’ve only read about this situation. I fear I have a long wait before the next batch of DVDs is released in Region 1.)

And yes, I absolutely agree. “Boom” was brilliant!

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@whohar The pace of filming is interesting. I think it points to Gatwa moving on quite quickly. What it means for the next season is open to debate. Maybe RTD has a fully fleshed-out, season’s worth of stories or maybe he is having to write quickly due to other constraints. Given he got burn out last time, I do wonder how much appetite he will have for a third season if he’s under this much time pressure.

I’m reading through the thread replies again, and I spotted this. Turns out you were very prescient!

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@janetteb Thank you for that clarification on corsets. I did not know that!

You also make a good observation about the TARDIS’s perception filter, whose primary purpose, as I recall, is to cause people not to notice it. But it seems like it’s been invoked as a kind of deus ex machina to conveniently explain away what would strike the audience as a problem. Wardrobe, for example, which enables the Doctor and companions to fit in with the people of the time they’re in. Like you, I was sometimes struck by the way the 13th Doctor was dressed, not at all in keeping with the way a woman would have dressed in that period, yet no one remarked upon it. Of course, I can’t think of a specific example now.

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@dentarthurdent Every long-running series does a song and dance number, just as they all do a Western. Eventually.

Fair enough. I still found it jarring. Good question about the strings. I had the same thought. If I give the benefit of the doubt, it’s that people who heard Ruby’s piano playing added the strings in their imagination. It’s the happiness they felt at hearing music again.

I too thought about how limited the use of music was. It seemed to be very pop-oriented. What about all the classical music that spans the ages? (Though that did get a brief nod with Debussy’s Clair de Lune.) What about Indigenous or traditional music? I know it’s only an hour-long episode, but since the theme was the loss of music, a lot of that music got skimmed over.

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@ps1l0v3y0u I suppose I was prepared for some level of disappointment, having to wait so long to see these episodes (because, as I have mentioned before, I refuse to subscribe to Disney+ for one program). I probably shouldn’t have read these threads, but I couldn’t help it. I wanted to know people’s opinions. However, it had been long enough that I didn’t recall a lot of the details … which was good. I did have a general sense of what people liked, and what they didn’t. I was happily surprised at how much I enjoyed “Boom,” “73 Yards,” “Dot and Bubble” and “Rogue.” They felt like proper Doctor Who stories.

“Rogue” gives us a glimpse of how RTD might have handled the 13th Doctor being a woman. The characterization may have been too overt for some viewers. RTD seemed to have an agenda with this season, and he wasn’t the least bit shy about working it in. I admit that I prefer more subtlety, more ambiguity. Leave something to my imagination, please. But, since I enjoyed those four episodes and felt they were a wonderful gift, a return to the style of Doctor Who of yore, should I complain? I think I’ll focus on remembering the good stuff.

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@whohar @ps1l0v3y0u Thanks, and yes, I agree. In many ways, Chibnall’s tenure was a disappointment. But I always have it in the back of my mind that the blame may not land squarely on him, because I don’t know what was going on behind the scenes. Still, in most cases, the writing just did not come together for me, and since he did most of it, it seems natural to hold him responsible.

It was especially disappointing during the Flux buildup, because finally, that seemed to be going somewhere … and then we got yet another episode of endless exposition, with little in the way of a satisfying conclusion. It was a real disservice to Jodie Whittaker, who I think, with better scripts, could have been a great Doctor.

Having said that, after having watched Ncuti Gatwa’s first season as the Doctor, RTD might have gone the opposite direction and really hammered it home that the Doctor was a woman. I’m not sure I’d want that, either. I just wanted a middle ground in which it was acknowledged, sometimes with humor, other times as some form of discrimination the Doctor faced, which limited her ability to solve a problem (in much the way, for example, racism backed Gatwa’s Doctor into a wall in “Dot and Bubble”).

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@translatorcircuit @ps1l0v3y0u Many thanks to both of you, who have better memories than mine. I really couldn’t remember a single reference … but then again, I’ve forgotten significant chunks of the 13th Doctor’s storyline because so much of it was unmemorable. And I don’t feel inclined to go back and watch it again.

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@mudlark @janetteb Thanks, I will look up the summary on the home page. It looks like there are also video clips, so hopefully I can watch them. I don’t think I’ve watched any of the pre-gap episodes (though my husband did before he went off to university). Not enough time … and I’ve found it hard enough to keep up with the post-gap ones.

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I’m not sure of the correct place to post this question. This thread seems as good a place as any. It’s regarding Jodie Whittaker’s 13th Doctor:

So, this was the first female incarnation of the Doctor. And yet, I’m racking my brain trying to recall if there was ever any actual reference to her, in any storyline, being female. I don’t remember one. Which is … odd.

I’m not saying I’d want to be beaten over the head with it (which RTD might well have done). And, having the Doctor being female – just the simple fact, without leaning into it – was a relief. But not even one reference? They could’ve had such fun, for example, in the obligatory period piece, with the Doctor having to wear a corset and losing her mind over what women had to endure in the name of fashion.

If there was a direct reference to the Doctor being female, and I’ve forgotten it, I apologize … and would be happy to be reminded of those instances.

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@miapatrick he looked in pain when Ruby left – but was he crying? I’m not sure there were tears.

I feel certain I saw a tear stain streaked on the Doctor’s face after he turned away from Ruby in the TARDIS … but I’m too lazy to pop the DVD back in to check. Like you, I was thinking, “Has he cried yet in this episode?” And then I saw that tear stain and thought, “Yeah, he did.”

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All right, I made it to the end! And I was completely wrong about my surmising that Ruby’s parentage would be left unsolved (see my post in “The Legend of Ruby Sunday” thread). I thought it was touching that the Doctor tried to talk Ruby out of walking in to the coffee shop to meet her birth mother. At first, I thought he was right. All these years, and she never reached out to Ruby? But I think it was because he knew he’d lose her as his companion if she went through with it. And he did.

That was a surprise. I knew that Millie Gibson didn’t return for the following season, but I didn’t realize that she would get an actual farewell episode at the end of this season. That was lovely, yet also sad because we had her for such a short time. She and Ncuti Gatwa were wonderful together.

The episode itself was fairly good, though the personal drama is really what made it. Without that, I think it would have just been average. Somehow I didn’t find Sutekh all that scary, though the special effects were spectacular. And I did appreciate the moral dilemma Sutekh forced on the Doctor.

I haven’t read through all the posts, but I do have a quibble: Going back to the VHS tape footage, Ruby’s mother was pointing, apparently at the sign saying Ruby Road. So Ruby joyfully proclaimed that her mother really did name her. But, other than the Doctor and Ruby herself, who else was there to see it, thus giving Ruby her name? Isn’t it enough that the church where she was left was on Ruby Road?

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Confession time: I really don’t know much pre-gap Doctor Who lore, but I get the impression that Sutekh is from that period.

Early on in this episode, at UNIT headquarters, I was sad to hear the Doctor say he was going to keep this face for a long time. We know how that turned out. Also, Kate was reminded (yet again) that the Doctor does not always bring joy.

I haven’t read all the bonkerizing, but my hunch is that Ruby was used as a pawn to lure the Doctor and the TARDIS. For her and the Doctor, the search for Ruby’s mother was real, but I have a feeling it’s going to fizzle into nothing but a smokescreen, since Ruby’s need to know her birth family has nothing to do with Sutekh’s objectives.

Was anyone else worried that the VHS tape was going to break before they got through with it? I’d have thought they’d make a digital copy first.

Ncuti Gatwa and Millie Gibson were wonderful, once again. The tension kept me transfixed to the end. I am hoping that the conclusion delivers the emotional payoff we seem to be building toward.

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@ps1l0v3y0u Hmmm, it’s been a while since I’ve watched “Forest of the Dead” (it and “Silence in the Library” are among my favorite Doctor Who episodes). I can’t really say that Rogue reminded me of River Song. Certainly, at the outset (for us and Tennant Doc), River Song was mysteriously flirty with the Doctor. And then the mystery was revealed as time went on … or back?

But, with Rogue, Captain Jack popped into my mind immediately.

I guess I shouldn’t be surprised that people freaked out about the attraction between Rogue and the Doctor. Russell T. Davies certainly did seem to have a list of social ills he wanted to address, and he wasn’t the least bit subtle about it.

There was a point when I thought, “Does every episode have to address some current societal challenge?” And yet I understand a writer’s need to tackle those topics, if the need to do so is strong, and the outlet is there. So I’m on the fence … and can waffle either way, depending on my mood.

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Another enjoyable episode, and this time a fun period piece. “Rogue” was lighter than its predecessors, and I enjoyed the humor. But things got serious toward the end.

I haven’t read through all the posts, but did Rogue remind anyone else of a less-flamboyant Captain Jack? I was immediately reminded of Captain Jack’s flirting with Rose, and didn’t he have a thing for dance club music, too? I enjoyed the scenes between Rogue and the Doctor on their respective ships.

I didn’t see it coming that Ruby cosplayed her way out of danger, though I figured the psychic earrings would come into play somehow. I’d forgotten about the battle mode.

The Doctor and Ruby are becoming closer, and Ruby is a good friend to the Doctor. That’s what I like to see in this series, and I have missed it. “The fam” almost never hit the mark. As much as I liked Bill Potts, I felt there was more of a “mentor/student” relationship between her and the Doctor. Clara was a friend, I think, in “The Day of the Doctor” … but throughout the series she was a complicated companion. As were Amy and Rory. So if I think back, the last time I sensed an unfettered friendship was between the Doctor and Donna. It’s been quite a while, at least for me.

 

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Wow, another powerful episode! I am happily surprised … and happy to be surprised, if that makes sense. Surprises were becoming few and far between, with Doctor Who.

Initially I thought this was a clever take on influencers. It was hilarious that Lindy Pepper-Bean didn’t know how to do something as basic as walking without the guidance of her Bubble. But I never imagined that the episode would take on racism and apartheid, too.

It went from funny to dark as soon as Lindy threw Ricky September under the bus … or in the path of her Dot, as it were. “Dot and Bubble” delivered a depressing commentary on our increasingly self-absorbed society that landed heavily, but believably.

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As I mentioned in my “Boom” post, having just watched it and “73 Yards” I feel like I’ve watched an entire season. I loved this episode. It felt reminiscent of Doctor Who, but without being derivative. Many others have pointed to past episodes that it harks back to, so there’s no need for me to repeat any of that.

Can I ask a basic question? What, exactly, was Ruby doing on the football pitch? I know she was counting until she reached 73 yards, so I assume she had walked to a point that was 73 yards away from Roger ap Gwilliam, bringing her old self in proximity with Gwilliam. I wonder what she said that caused him to run off and resign. But we don’t need everything explained. Allowing us to imagine is a good thing.

I loved the appearance of UNIT, though they certainly weren’t helpful to Ruby. And I wonder what “old Ruby” said to Carla to cause her to disown “young” Ruby. That was heartbreaking.

This is one of those stories that time travel can tell so well: The Doctor and Ruby accidentally breaking the fairy circle the first time around, and then not breaking when we return to that moment in time, means that all’s well.

I’m hoping that this wonderful feeling I have, after having watched these two episodes, will continue as I carry on with the rest of the DVDs. I’m happy to have Doctor Who back, even if it’s just for today.

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@janetteb I have been really looking forward to this, the return of Moffat to Dr Who and it did not disappoint. it was so good, tense, political, and with emotional depth. Ncuti really “aced” it. This is the first time we have seen the depth of his Doctor. He has so much energy and in this that is all focussed simply on keeping still. Ruby is shaping up to be a very good companion. She reminds me of Clara but I daren’t say that too loudly as some members of the household didn’t like Clara.

You have summarized my feelings about this episode. Wow! I just watched “Boom” and “73 Yards” … and I felt like I’ve watched an entire season. Now, this is Doctor Who! I almost wish it stopped after “73 Yards” (though I know it doesn’t). I loved the minimalist aspect of “Boom” … “bottle episodes” are often my favorites because they draw our attention to the characters.

Ncuti Gatwa and Millie Gibson absolutely nailed their roles here. I believed they were truly the Doctor and his companion. And I agree with you that Ruby very much reminds me of Clara.

Thanks to all who clarified the meaning of the “what survives of us is love” line. I wondered if I’d forgotten something from a past episode.

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@ps1l0v3y0u @whohar @janetteb @dentarthurdent I do agree with you about disliking what Chibnall did to the canon, especially with Gallifrey. But then, I was disappointed with how Gallifrey was handled after the 50th anniversary special. Here we had the Doctor’s jubilation at setting out to find it, and then we got little joy (I mean that in the “jubilant” sense) with the Trenzalore storyline. I think it’s just a case of, that’s not what I was expecting. And I don’t think Gallifrey was handled particularly well after that, with the exception of the “Heaven Sent” and “Hell Bent” episodes.

So I wasn’t especially galled by that aspect of the Timeless Child. For me, it was the horribly clumsy handling of it. The story had potential: What the Doctor thinks she remembers is not what actually happened (which then becomes true for the audience, as well). Here it was handled slightly better than “It was all a dream” … but not by much. (I kept wanting to tell the Master to just shut up. Not because I was upset at the content of his speech, but because such a revelation is not something that should be left to rambling exposition.) Which should have been a clue that maybe this was a road best left untraveled. In a series in which there is not such a well-established canon, this kind of tinkering can work. But, with a series as long-lived as Doctor Who, one must proceed with caution.

@ps1l0v3y0u I agree with you that this was likely a decision made by committee. I’d had a suspicion that this mess felt like a “too many cooks in the kitchen” situation, and I think that’s probably true.

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@dentarthurdent

What do you mean, “of course Midnight was total crap”? Where did the ‘of course’ come from? Your opinion does not constitute a universal truth. And for my money, the ‘Timeless Child’ storyline was just Chibs crapping all over continuity, it certainly didn’t revitalise Who. But that’s just my opinion.

Yup, I agree on both points. “Midnight” remains one of my all-time favorite Doctor Who episodes. “The Timeless Child” could have been good, were it not for it being spoon-fed to the Doctor (and us) through reams of exposition narrated by the Master. Chibnall seems to have skipped the whole, “show, don’t tell” lesson of storytelling.

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Now, that was an imaginative intro! The segue from the Maestro tapping the opening notes into the Doctor Who theme music and opening credits, then to the jukebox on the TARDIS, was a good idea, well executed. I could’ve done without so many animated notes, but they were cleverly used to drag and bind Ruby, then the Doctor, and finally Maestro.

The Doctor and Ruby seemed to more rapport in this episode, which was nice to see.

Interesting reference to “music of the spheres” and how Maestro wanted to steal that to, what, control the universe? I didn’t quite get the purpose because it went by so fast.

One memorable scene was the Doctor using the sonic screwdriver to silence all sound. I appreciated that Ruby wasn’t a virtuoso pianist, but simply played something she had composed for a friend. I loved how the old woman sat down at her piano and played Claire de Lune. She would have remembered back to a time when there was music.

Including the Beatles was a fun teaser, and at first that’s all I thought it would be. But they were utilized in a way that made sense in the story. In the end, John and Paul saved the day. Nice touch.

Also, it looks like the Doctor gets to change wardrobe in each episode. I don’t mean when traveling to a different time. I mean “current day” (whenever that is, with the Doctor). That’s a new thing, isn’t it?

How many episodes are going to have a song and dance number? That’s a bit jarring, but points given for trying something different.

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Well, that was a letdown. It started out with such promise, and then fell completely flat, IMO.

Awful special effects to make the babies seem like they were talking. And, shockingly enough (because babies were involved), I never felt a palpable sense of threat, not even from the Bogeyman … which had an Alien-esque grotesqueness, but didn’t do a whole lot besides chase the Doctor and Ruby down corridors. Normally, corridors are spooky, but these had no effect on me.

Hoping the next episode is better!

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So, the Season 1 DVDs finally arrived via my library, and I just watched “The Church on Ruby Road.” I’m very glad that I’d read the posts here, because I found the song-and-dance segments to be quite jarring. But at least I knew they were coming.

I would not have minded the dance club scene, as that was fairly natural. But to have the goblins singing and dancing, and then Ruby and the Doctor dancing and singing along? Bleh!

There was a lot that seemed to get thrown in to this episode. The best part, for me, was seeing the change in Carla before the Doctor went back in time to ensure that Ruby was, indeed, found at the church. It was sadly convincing as to how one small thing changes everything. This is something a series on time travel has the advantage of portraying.

I thought that Ncuti Gatwa was very good as the Doctor, though it feels like RTD is feeling his way as to who, exactly, this Doctor will be. Millie Gibson was an OK companion, but there didn’t seem to be much chemistry between Ruby and the Doctor. And, as Christmas specials go, this one wasn’t very memorable. That’s unfortunate, since it was part of the 60th anniversary.

On to the next DVD!

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@dentarthurdent I love “Brain Surgeon”, along with many of their other sketches. We saved a handful of Mitchell & Webb videos and, when we’re looking for comedic relief, we turn to them. Other favorites include “Moon Landing” and “Homeopathic A&E”.

(Sorry, back to the episode topic.)

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My husband was traveling on business, and the remnants of Hurricane Melissa had blown through earlier in the day, so I didn’t feel up to doing Halloween. We get very few trick-or-treaters in our neighborhood, anyway, so it’s hard to feel like it’s worth putting out the effort.

When we lived in Ontario, we averaged between 80 and 100 trick-or-treaters. Our first Halloween in our house, we were woefully underprepared and ran out of treats. My husband resorted to handing out packets of hot chocolate while I ran out to resupply us. That was fun.

He so enjoyed the Halloween rituals that he dressed up, painting his face, wearing a costume and playing spooky music. So, when we moved to Nova Scotia and got no trick-or-treaters, that was a huge letdown for him, and we haven’t done that since.

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@dentarthurdent Twelve came out looking like a significant figure from his past that he had failed to save.

But, didn’t the Doctor save him? For me, that was what was so poignant about Twelve choosing that face. Donna’s tearful pleading with the Doctor got him to save Caecilius and his family. I always thought he chose that face as a reminder of his alien nature, and that he needs a human companion to stop him when he’s about to do the wrong thing.

(Speaking of faces turning up later, I’d forgotten that Karen Gillan played the soothsayer in “Fires of Pompei.”)

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@dentarthurdent With Chibz’ Doctor, one got the impression it was there simply to make it ‘sound sciencey’ or maybe make up for something that should have been better plotted.

I agree. That’s why, for me, this episode stands out among the Chibnall-penned ones, because the Doctor’s observations were pertinent, not just filler.

@ps1l0v3y0u Also eight zaps and the Doctor didn’t start to regenerate once.

You know, I never even thought of that.

Still, I find this an enjoyable episode, if one doesn’t scrutinize the details too closely. Which can be true of a fair bit of Doctor Who.

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@blenkinsopthebrave I confess that I didn’t make that connection to Hazran. What did spring to mind when I watched the episode was the connection with role played by Lillian Gish as the woman who protects her orphan charges against Robert Mitchum’s deranged Preacher in the fabulous “”Night of the Hunter”:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0048424/mediaviewer/rm1069923072

I think I overlooked your reply because, at the time, I hadn’t seen Night of the Hunter. I have since seen it at least once, maybe twice, on TCM, and I agree that it is fabulous!

@wolfweed I think the GIF you posted is from that movie?

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@dentarthurdent I probably shouldn’t have said the Doctor didn’t babble at all in this episode. But it felt greatly minimized to me, compared to other episodes. And, let’s face it, it’s not like previous incarnations of the Doctor didn’t babble. But I always felt like there was a flow to it, a stream that I could follow. Oftentimes, Whittaker’s dialogue was written in such a way that it just felt like … well, babble.

I usually trust my first instincts. I felt then, and still do, that this was Chibnall’s finest moment on Doctor Who. I’m not as committed as you, and so I haven’t felt the need to revisit Whittaker’s Doctor. “Eve of the Daleks” was the only episode I felt was worth rewatching. Maybe someday I will review other episodes, and then perhaps I will revise my assessments of them.

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@winston I think the human companion is there to connect us to the Doctor through them and let us travel with him. I also think the human companion provides a contrast, the Doctor is a weird and strange alien and not from earth. The Doctor is also very humanoid and if not for the 2 hearts he seems a lot like us. Maybe a companion that was very alien would make the Doctor seem more human and less “other” by contrast.

I very much agree with this. My favorite human companions were those who weren’t afraid to stand up to the Doctor and remind him of the differences between him and human beings. I think that’s why I liked Donna so much. She loved the Doctor but didn’t revere him, and she was quick to point out when he fell short on human terms.

That’s what friends are for. We cherish loyalty and devotion, but we also need honesty. Sometimes the honest answer isn’t the one we want to hear, but it’s what we need to hear. Donna was a good friend to the Doctor.

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@craig Thanks so much!

One other question: This is going back over a month ago. After I posted to the On the Sofa 11 thread, the thread disappeared from the list in the General Forum. I can see my post in my Activity, and if I click on that link I can see the thread (which has a number of newer posts, including one today). Any idea how to get it restored to the General Forum? Or am I the only one who can’t see it there?

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The “BBC Remains Committed” headline sounds good. “The TARDIS is going nowhere” comment doesn’t exactly instill confidence, given that the TARDIS is usually going somewhere.

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@ps1l0v3y0u I can barely keep track of plot lines, much less timelines, so I’m a poor choice for any kind of meaningful exchange on your date theories. But bravo to you for taking that on! I could not do it.

@dentarthurdent I’m much the same as you … and getting worse by the day. I never considered your point about the inherent logical flaw in time travel. I enjoy your recollection of that Tardis exchange. Such insights are what I have always loved about Doctor Who.

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@dentarthurdent I absolutely agree with you. I thought the Weeping Angels episode was finally building toward something substantive and exciting, and then … “Whoomp! (There It Is)” … or isn’t. What a letdown. I don’t know what happened. My theory (without any proof) is that there were too many cooks in the kitchen. So how Moffat & Co. were able to hold it together as well as they did, for as long as they did, is anybody’s guess. In hindsight, I feel immense gratitude for their perseverance.

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@winston @whohar @blenkinsopthebrave Thank you for your warm Canada Day wishes! My husband decided to work and plans to take the day off later on. So it was a regular day for us. But, given recent events, I am all the more grateful to call Canada home. We celebrated Canada Day quietly, but no less gladly.

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@dentarthurdent Bond being dead. I’m trying to remember if, at the end of No Time to Die, if Bond was definitively and permanently blown up. Or did he survive by a miracle – I suppose that wouldn’t technically be a retcon. I do rather hope they don’t do a ‘young Bond growing up’ though, that sounds rather too – Disney.

My take on it is that Bond was not pining for the fjords. Yes, Bond had gotten himself out of tough spots before, but it’s hard to see how anyone could have survived that missile strike. Besides, after Bond was infected with nanobots that would kill Madeleine and Mathilde, he chose to sacrifice himself. Hence, his death on the rooftop of Safin’s nanobot factory.

I agree with you and hope that Villeneuve & Co. don’t go Disney-esque on us.

@ps1l0v3y0u So much double entendre. Thank you for reminding us! I’d forgotten about that. As you noted, the gas masks were a distraction from the hilarity of those scenes between Rose, Jack and the Doctor. I miss it.

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@dentarthurdent (Wonder how they’re going to deal with Bond being dead?)

I’m guessing retcon. I have read a fan theory elsewhere that speculates we’ll see yet another version of “young Bond‘s struggle with authority, having to find himself, and finally embracing the surrogate family he is surrounded with.” Sadly, that strikes me as being highly plausible in this day and age. I hope that Villeneuve comes up with something more imaginative.

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@whohar I love the HBO rumor! I have HBO because it’s linked with Crave in Canada, thus removing the Disney+ dilemma from my options.

@ps1l0v3y0u My take on the hostess’ sacrifice in “Midnight” is that her flight safety training was kicking in. Even though she seemed just as paranoid and accusatory as the passengers, my sense was that she finally realized the Doctor was right, saw the danger, grabbed Sky and opened the door, sacrificing herself. Though I wonder if the creature inhabiting Sky would have survived, since it was an entity prior to gaining entry to the bus.

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@translatorcircuit Well, I am going to disagree with you. “Midnight” ranks near the top of my favorite Doctor Who episodes. It’s one of the few episodes I feel compelled to watch over and over again. I love it precisely because of its claustrophobic setting. It feels like a stage play. Not something I would want for every episode, but I found the novelty refreshing.

I remember feeling a real sense of threat to the Doctor. I felt confident that he would escape this danger, somehow … but how? So there was a gnawing sense of doubt, right up until the climax.

The interplay between David Tennant and Lesley Sharp was brilliant. I was utterly convinced that Sky (or the creature that had inhabited her) was taking over the Doctor. I was sad that Sky Sylvestri and the unnamed hostess did not survive. But that’s part of what sets this episode apart. The Doctor set out on his own, leaving Donna to relax while he sought some fun and stimulation. Instead, what he and the others got was insight into the human character … much of it not pretty, revealed in the confines of a Lifeboat setting. And not everyone got out alive. One of the most haunting episodes, for me.

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@winston I am OK with a smaller budget if the story is good. It can all happen in one room if the story is engaging like Midnight.

My thoughts exactly!

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Not a good sign from either publication (Deadline article follows the Variety one):

Variety

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@winston Piggybacking on your bonkers theory, what if Rose is returning to meet No. 14? We got a reunion between Tennant Doc and Donna. It wouldn’t surprise me to see RTD reunite him with Rose, and then, same as with Gatwa Doc, do a bi-generation into No. 16.

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@whisht OMG She was the Moment for a Moment and now is actually the Doctor for a season!!

Oh, I like that!

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Somewhat related to the discussion of regenerations and Gatwa’s too-brief tenure as the Doctor:

I watched a video of all the regenerations and was reminded of how melodramatic they tend to be. On first viewing, that’s fine, but subsequent viewings don’t carry as much emotional weight for me.

I was also reminded of another even shorter tenure: Paul McGann. After having seen the TV movie in which he played the Doctor, I was grateful that it was a one-off. But then I saw “The Night of the Doctor” that set him up for John Hurt’s War Doctor, and McCann was so good that I lamented him getting such short shrift.

Of course, Hurt’s tenure as the Doctor was brief … but it was meant to be.

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A thought (and yes, I’m reading and loving all the posts … even though I am still awaiting DVDs of Ncuti’s first season). Anyway, my first thought about Billie Piper was, RTD did bring back Tennant Doc to resolve his erasure of Donna’s memories with him. And we know where we last left Rose in the parallel universe with the Meta-Crisis Doctor.

But might there have been some event between Rose and her Meta-Crisis Doctor, similar to what happened to Donna in “The End of Time”? So instead of DoctorDonna, we now have DoctorRose? And, of course, we know where we last left Tennant Doc #14. Might this be yet another loose end to tie up?

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@ps1l0v3y0u Oh. Could I make it ‘Broadchurch’ in space? A series of Intergalactic Moiders with conflicted cardboard cutouts (my fav. Pretty please?)

Had you leveled the “cardboard cutouts” complaint against Season 2, I would have been right there with you. The second season of Broadchurch was a disaster, IMO. Throw in a past murder that no viewer cares about? OK, I get it, it’s the old “cold case haunts investigator, and is finally resolved” scenario. But did anyone care? I didn’t. I cared about the characters I’d come to know in the first season … and we got precious little of them. I approached the third season with fear and trepidation, but I felt that it redeemed itself and didn’t repeat its mistake from the second season.

I realize you’re not carrying that over to Chibnall’s tenure on Doctor Who, but I did want to comment on it. I was surprised that so little of the character development I saw on Broadchurch carried over to Doctor Who. I still wonder if it was a “too many cooks in the kitchen” problem. That’s what it felt like.

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@whohar I didn’t comment on here about Chibnall’s / Whittaker’s Who run, mainly because I found it, in the main, to be witless, charmless and (often) senseless.

This is the the most concise description of their run that I’ve ever come across, and it sums up my feelings perfectly.

And yet, what is so frustrating is that clearly, Chibnall had it in him to write a good episode. Exhibit A: “Eve of the Daleks” which, IMO, had all the wit and charm I’d come to expect from Doctor Who. It didn’t completely make sense … but then, Doctor Who rarely does. The whimsy, and the fact that the Doctor took charge, with timely support from her team of companions and friends, felt like Chibnall had finally got his mojo back. And then it all fell apart again. Such a disappointment.

Having seen Jodie Whittaker in Broadchurch, I am firmly convinced that, with better scripts, she would have made a marvelous Doctor. I believe she was let down by the writing, and by a lack of direction as to who the Doctor and her companions really were. It felt to me like a “too many cooks in the kitchen” problem, with the focus on trying to out-plot RTD and Moffat … at the expense of character development.

I was a little surprised at Jodie’s admission that Chibnall had advised her not to watch any previous Docs. Since she’d worked with David Tennant, I assumed that she’d at least watched parts of his run. I even felt that, early on, she was trying to mimic his manic style. So it wouldn’t surprise me to discover that she sneaked a peek at a few Tennant Doc episodes.

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@mudlark Oh, right, Tecteun actually did show up later on. Like I said, the Flux denouement was pretty underwhelming for me, so I have forgotten a lot. Thanks for the synopsis of how that “tangled mess” (aptly put) went down.

@janetteb I have paid attention to the observations about Ruth Doc’s Tardis and how, if she preceded Hartnell Doc, the appearance of her Tardis makes no sense. Her re-entry now is puzzling. But since bi-generation has become a thing, maybe that’s the explanation?

RTD seems committed to giving fans what they want. First we got Tennant Doc and Donna resolving Donna’s memory problem (which was always a sore spot with me). Many complained that we wanted to see more of Ruth Doc. Maybe her reappearance is another case of fan service. It will be interesting to see how this plays out, and if it resolves in a satisfying way.

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I am cheerfully reading all the spoilers here, even though I must wait for my library to get Ncuti Gatwa’s first season. I feel optimistic that I’m of an age where, by the time the DVDs finally arrive, I will have forgotten most of what I have read. But this comment from @mudlark got me thinking:

The problem with trying to fit Ruth Doc into the line of Doctors 1 to 13, at least for me, is that it means not only jettisoning the Timeless Child narrative – i.e. Awsok/Tecteun was lying through her teeth, but that the Division shenanigans were were contemporary with the lives of at least some of the incarnations of the known canon and completely unknown to them, which seems a bit of a stretch given how many other secrets of the Time Lords the Doctor has managed to ferret out.

It’s been quite a while since I last watched Jodie Whittaker’s Doctor. But one of the things that stood out to me, and not in a good way, was that “The Timeless Children” saga was told to her by the Master. At the time, I was so annoyed by Chibnall’s complete disregard of the “show, don’t tell” principle of storytelling that I could barely watch.

But what if what the Master told the Doctor was all a lie? Wasn’t Ruth the one through line we got in all of that? As I recall, she worked for the Division, but did she confirm all of what the Master said? I really can’t remember. And, I don’t think that’s just a result of aging. The denouement was that unmemorable.

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As I mentioned in another thread, we just watched Wolf Hall … in the wrong order. We started with Wolf Hall: The Mirror and the Light that recently aired on PBS Masterpiece, not realizing that the original Wolf Hall mini-series had preceded it 10 years earlier. So yes, it did feel like something was missing, though we’ve watched enough documentaries about King Henry VIII that I didn’t feel lost. I then borrowed the original Wolf Hall DVDs from our library and got caught up.

The entire cast was superb, but the through line is Mark Rylance’s finely nuanced portrayal of Thomas Cromwell. Of course, he had a beautifully written script, based on Hilary Mantel’s novels, which fleshed out Cromwell’s character well beyond the devious “fixer” I thought I knew him to be.

I know this is fiction, but the motivations that are portrayed by Cromwell and the other characters feel believable, and very human. I was mesmerized throughout both series. Even though I knew what was coming, I didn’t know *how* it would come about. I felt as blind to it as the characters, which is quite a remarkable achievement for such a well-documented period of history.

Damian Lewis as Henry and Claire Foy as Anne Boleyn are equally mesmerizing. But I don’t think they would have worked nearly as well without Rylance’s shrewd, flawed, vulnerable Cromwell underpinning everything.

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@whohar Thanks for sharing that. Archie Panjabi looks familiar to me, and I had to think of where I’d seen her. Then it came to me. We recently watched I Know This Much Is True, and she gave a wonderful portrayal of the psychologist, Dr. Patel.

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