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@wolfweed

You’d think after all this time as an actor Colin might’ve actually picked up something about how stories and scriptwriting work, and the difference between a plot point with punch and a gimmick! Chip on shoulder, much, methinks!

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In fact, following on from that dark theme that the perpetrators of violence are themselves damaged by their own participation – it generally takes 2-3 generations for people in countries which have suffered attrocities/revolutions/invasions etc to come to terms with it and start to move on.  We have 2 (re)generations of Doctors before he can start to deal with the personal damage to himself, caused by the War Doctor’s act.

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Just throwing in my tuppenceworth.

For me the big story and theme of the episode is the moral dilemma – is it ever justifiable to kill a few for the sake of the many; and even more so when those “few” (well, a smaller no than the no who will be saved, to be more precise) are innocents, particularly children.

The answer was a resounding NO.

Anyone who thinks it is yes and carries it out, for whatever good motivations – and whatever Hurt’s Doctor is when he becomes the War Doctor – he is still part of the direct  line of Doctors from Hartnell – he might be dark because of what he’s had to do in the war (and as @denvaldron points out, in Night of the Doctor we see McGann regenerating into a young Hurt, so it’s been a while*) – but he isn’t evil – will be severely psychologically damaged/diminished by taking the action.

What a massively powerful message for any TV programme, never mind a  “kids’ show”, to be sending out in 2013.

In a worldwide  “event” broadcast to nearly 100 different countries.

 

*unless of course a side effect of the Time War is to age people prematurely (but that’s a whole other theory)

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@thommck

Love the pics of you and your 2 boys, Yeah the cinema people got the Strax warning for mobile pohones, filming and crunching screaming popcon… but not the trailer for the Xmas Special. We just wanted ot hit “replay” when it finished 😉

I don’t have  a problem with the Dr and Clara having just walked out of his timestram (NotD) – it was already disintegrating, “collapsong in on itself” – as soon as Clara found 11 (oops – 12!) she was safe – it’s his timestream, he knows the way out. It was when she was on her own she wasn’t safe. OTOH if we’re going where the TV trailer apparently says we’re going for Xmas. I could be (as usual) complegtely wrong!

But Clara does save the Doctor in a very real way – she’s the one who insists there is a better alternative to mass killing, even if it’s “justified” by saving the many. She doesn’t know what it is but she knows if she pushes the Dr he will find it. Message for our times?

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@craig @juniperfish @bluesqueakpip – a joy and a delight to hang out with you at the Doclands party, complete with its own TARDIS console, twin Troughtons and zygons.

Thans everyone who came to the pub last night, another special night.

Special mention to @bluesqueakpip for calling it’d be about saving the children of Gallifrey; @craig (and others) for “redemption”. And of course Timeloop for insisting on “the moment” amidst much dissent. Hope you enjoyed your own moment in the cinema – well earned 🙂

And I seem to have aquired a massive, gorgeous Weeping Angel poster from somewhere – blame it on the timey wimey!

 

 

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@Everyone

Just back – not much coherent thought left – but just loved it. Watched in cinema with everyone laughing and ooing at same bits. Fun, scary… and I can’t think of a more fitting 50th birthday tribute.  And, as promised, a loveletter to the show. So many little callouts… From the very first titles at the start to Tom Baker as the Caretaker.

@wolfweed – that’s such a lovely pic with John Hurt reconciled within the official line of Doctors.

But yes… 13 now, with Capaldi

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The Day of the Fish Doctor – 10.05pm (GMT) tonight (Red Button I think)

Latest Tweets –

TheFishDr ‏@dayoftheFishDr 7h 22:05 GMT A telepathic field binding the whole human race together,all thinking the same thing at the same time. Just one thought..The FDR

 

TheFishDr ‏@dayoftheFishDr 21 Nov ‘I’ve eaten possums anus on live television, it couldn’t be worse than that’ – Colin Baker. #FDR #FishDr

 

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Graun article about their day at the Excel – starring our very own @Shazzbot – or why a Dr Who Convention isn’t like an International Arms fair*.

@fatmaninabox – well stop it then. Get unsober… but don’t miss Sat at 7.50pm 😀

 

*There’s more explosions at a DW Con 😉

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@fatmaninabox

Could very well be our @Shazzbot – she said she was talking to a Graun journalist at the Excel. Got the link to the article?

::waves @miapatrick and @osakahatter:: Cheeeers 😎

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@phaseshift

BLEEEEURGH!!

I’ll stick with the hangover, thanks

😆

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@phaseshift

But, but, but… we’re in LONDON! it’s a foreign country here. Do they even know what Irn Bru is…?! (The proper stuff – made from girders n all that!)  You just have no sympathy for us poor forumers on the front line tomorrow night – putting our livers on the line just so you can keep your blog full 😉

 

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@phaseshift We will keep you from wallowing by sending you a deluge of increasingly fuzzy and out of focus shots from the pub. You also have a lot of cocktails to get through.

And excuse me – but I don’t believe you’ve come up with the Hangover Cure yet!  Please note this is now a matter of some urgency!!

;-D

The Sorceror

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Can’t believe we’re finally almost here. 50 years. Oh my giddy aunt

Just to wish everyone on here a fabulous anniversary and look forward to analysing it with you, to within an inch of its life, afterwards.  And I’m sure that whatever Moff and crew come up with will be different from anything we’ve  thought of so far, thrilling tho the discussion ride in this forum has been.   Just maybe we might have got a smidgeon of a whisker of something that actually happens.  Bow ties, watery portals, 4th wall breaks and Kennedy (and now we have 2 Presidents. And an Assassin!) – it’s been brilliant fun so far.  Thank you all.

Also looking forward to meeting everyone who makes it to the pub tomorrow, for some last minute bonkers theorising. And all those who can’t be there in person but who will be ably represented by there avatars. Photos to follow…

@phaseshift – You are a star for offering to man the blogs.

@pedant – thanks for the great ARSE article – you’re just a big softie really, aren’t you? 🙂

From – The Sorceror

::spooky laughter from behind new/old sparkly cloak mwuhuhuh:: 😈

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Fave funny bits – creating the TARDIS in 5 mins flat. With an actual bobbin. 😀

And the cyberman at the start having a fag! Tricky.

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@craig

Hard to put myself in position of non-fan but I think it has a broad appeal. Hartnell’s emotional journey was great, the period stuff with the attitudes to  Verity and Waris is interesting, especially as they both succeeded spectacularly. If anything I’d suspect the attitudes towards them were probably underplayed – BBC was much more straightlaced with ingrained institutional prejudices way back then.

And the lead performances were ourstanding.

It would certainly be of interest to anyone who grew up around that time, and/or had interest in TV shows of the time.  As someone who goes back that far – just great 😀

I think I’ve just added another DVD to my Xmas list!

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:sniff:

😥

Just aaw, that was so well done. Bradley characterisation was beautiful, crotchety on the surface and an insecure actor and sick man underneath.  Especially when he suddenly has to deal with a new production team who don’t even know that the TARDIS should be switched on, never mind how to do it!  And he nailed the delivery of key speeches. And Brian Cox was just great (as ever).  Loved how there was a real sense of a growing family feeling about the crew as well.

Could be a little picky about the period feel of it – close, not quite formal enough for the 50s/early 60s, but as I said, that’d be churlish. The room seemed to get very misty at the little clips at the end, the interviews with his grand-daughter, some of the cast and showing actual clips, which didn’t feel at all out of place.

A loveletter to the show indeed. Gatiss earned that scene with Matt appearing to Hartnell at the end.

😀

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@pedant … sorry, I mean  @ThePrivateer

reTime Lord names – Brilliant!

I’m the Actor in RL, the Sorcerer on here (magic!!).  So watch out 🙂

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@Shazzbot Curses!! 😈

@jimthefish No need to get your coat – I’ve got it here, waiting for you 😉

@wolfweed Thanks for the Spoilers-warning; time to batten down the google-hatches

::mutter, mutter, blooming fishes, mutter, mutter, fez-stealing airedales, mutter::

 

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@pedant

Dammit! Too late to edit – really must type more carefully – that was supposed to say UNFishness 😳

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@pedant

Grovelling apologies your mighty Fishness – you did indeed. In my defence there’s a bit of a deluge of links ATM! But it was worth repeating, no? Esp for BG fans.

::shuffles nervoously in case the Fish Clan is about to get a seal* of endorsement::

 

*Yeah, Fish – I said SEAL!!! 😈

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@jimthefish You should know better, but…  (haha, I’ve got one of my own). BUT we should also not give them the satisfaction of continuing to discuss on here.  Starring in discussions on DWF counts as a troll-hit too.  As someone said ages back on here (can’t remember who, sorry) – We need to make like the Doctor and be better than that. And if we’re discussing specific posters on here, I’d say we’re not.   I’d suggest PMs if people need to let off steam about it.

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Interesting new twitter account has appeared – The Fish Doctor???? (@dayoftheFishDr) FISH??!!!!

http://www.thedrum.com/news/2013/11/19/timelords-unite-mysterious-dr-who-twitter-teaser-campaign

I’d say keep a close eye on the BBC Red Button in next couple of days (and no doubt YouTube as well).  I don’t know anything, but I’m guessing (based on a conversation I had last month)

😀

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@whohar Have you started filling the bath yet?

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And while I remember – a ma-who-ssive (as the kids don’t say!) bow to @phaseshift for the “Verity” letter in response to Moffat saying he’s the original fan. It made me laugh as much  as the Tenant vid!   In case anyone missed it, and to save you having to plough through the neck-deep angst on the G pages I’ve taken the liberty of reproducing it here –

Dear BBC,

Having watched Doctor Who from the very beginning, can I say that with this latest episode, Cave of Skulls, Verity Lambert has ruined Doctor Who.

Yours,

Doctor Who Fan
30th November 1963

 

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@janetteb

I’m in the UK and I’m having problems keeping up with all the links that are coming through. And I completely agree with you that it’s not just @blenkinsopthebrave‘s aging peepers! I had to look at the Hartnell pic a few times to be sure it was him – it’s very unHartnelly looking cos of the lighting and the angle. I like how the RT covers all link up – but it’s a bit of a sneaky way to multiply their sales x12!

Capaldi in a kilt… hmmm… not so sure about that! I’m sure they exhausted the kilt jokes with Jamie, haha.

And yes, the G boards should be treated as a source of amusement (some people could do with a course of anger management). But not as funny as the Tennant spoof clip – classic troll slapdown. He looks as if he’s about to corpse any minute. (It’s also funny how few of the commenters actually get it).  Did I mention that big wooden box thing on his left (R in the pic) is the actual TARDIS? (And that’s just a tiny bit of it – it’s very impressive. (Sorry, a small bit of squee for me – I’ve been there, on that spot!))

3 SLEEPS TO GO!!! Hope your exams going well.

 

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@bluesqueakpip

That Tennant clip is BRILLIANT 😆 Thanks for posting. (And just for info the big wooden box thing he’s sitting next to is the TARDIS (from the outside) 😉  )

It should be compulsory viewing for every ARSE fan and posted at the start of all the recent Graun comments threads.

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@janetteb

We will certainly be including you in the toasts*, and your avatar will be standing proud. End of exams is well worth celebrating – good on you all. There again if they don’t do as well as hoped in the exams it sounds like your offspring could have great careeers in specialist cake making!

@blenkinsopthebrave – A deep bow in your direction for being on spoiler alert on my behalf – much appreciated

And yes, where’s @bobbingbird? We miss you. Another one sucked back into the realm of RL

 

*there will be many – we have a lot of cocktails to get through!

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@jimthefish @phaseshift @pedant @wolfweed @haveyoufedthefish (good to see you’re still about somewhere btw 🙂 )

Ah, the Graun is just irresistible sometimes 😉 And it’s fun to dip in there occasionally, just don’t get angry.  You all made me LMAO, esp @wolfweed (a pithy, pointed 6 words). But not quite as much as the person who accused me of “not giving a shit” about the show 😆

::goes off to find another hanky to wipe away the tears::  Oh my, shouldn’t laugh this much so early!

 

Oh, and that’s a brilliant link @magnetite posted of the TARDIS tour

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Links are coming thick and fast!

This is on-set interview with Moffat talking about the 50th- audio only!

WARNING – there’s some interesting/mildly spoilerific dialogue by a character in the background – nothing we haven’t guessed on here already, and open to interpretation re what exactly they are referring to, as you can’t see anything!

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More from the BBC this morning – slightly tenuous Who link but I love Richard Wilson (unforgettable as Eddie Clockerty in Tutti Frutti) – and he’s just been presented with a lifetime achievement Scottish Bafta by 1 Mr Tennant (in a kilt (what’s not to like?!))

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@bluesqueakpip – Undoubtedly

@craignixon – Nothing important 😉

My comment was more of a moan that the new YouTube comments format, with nesting, actively encourages trolling and gives it prominence. (Which no doubt works for YT by increasing the click rate).

OTOH, just ignore the comments threads* (and esp on the trailers, NotD etc  this week – the spoiler trolls are lurking!)  And enjoy this little blast from the past (and it’s worth watching all of it 😉  ) (Tennant looking remarkably comfortable in drag in Rab C Nesbitt clip) –

 

*makes mental note – must take own advice more often

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@wolfweed – ha! that’s funny.  Tho you have to hand it to 1D for a well planned and executed PR hijacking of Who fans. I’d never have known they had a day if they hadn’t splattered it all over the Doctor Who youtube clips.  The best revenge is served up cold tho – and the cold facts are that Dr Who’s CiN trailer has over 400,000 views, 1D has 95,000.   (NotD has over 2m and the 40 sec trailer’s over 4m)

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Nice one @danmartinuk

Especially liked this http://www.buzzfeed.com/danmartin/this-fans-open-letter-will-melt-the-heart-of-every-doctor-wh

Hopefully see you on Friday* – call it research! (C’mon where else are you going to get such massive, bonkers, insights into our fave programme?! (How many of us – 14? That’s a whole (almost) random sample in itself, haha)

🙂

*which of course also goes for @arkleseizure and @whisht (and all the other attendees) as well

@timeloop – synchronised toasting – great idea 🙂

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Just a quick drop-in to the sofa to say that I am beyond excited about the rest of this week. (And not least because it looks like Moffat is going to knock the “haters” into a cocked hat by producing something that is going to blow minds all over the place with something of real quality. (They’ll still hate it, but they’ll be left speechless and spluttering)). It feels like the culmination of a whole year of Doctor Who, much of which is due to this Forum. Without it I might very well have given in to latent ARSEness and would certainly have missed 6 months of amazing speculation (on topic and thro all the various highways, byways and alternate universes). So a big thank you to EVERYONE who has contributed (or just lurked) in this great little space. You all make it what it is.

Particular thanks to – @craig for setting it up and continuing to maintain it (with loyal support from trusty fellow mods @phaseshift, @jimthefish and @Shazzbot ); I’m sure troll-splatting etc gets to be a pain in the arse sometimes, even if it has its fun moments.

Also to @Shazzbot for organising the pub meet-up this Friday 😀

And to @bluesqueakpip (love the party dress!) and @jimthefish for discussions on ARSEness – I got a lot out of my system and have a whole new appreciation for how to accommodate bonkers theorising into what happens on screen. Honorable mention to @htpbdet for teaching me how to find the fun in retconning. (I can even happily accomodate the Cushing Doctor, haha)

@wolfweed – you are indeed the google-king of links

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Like how lots of avatars are regenerating/sprucing up in advance of the 50th, but unlike @timeloop it’s confusing the hell out of me! 😉

@pedant – shame your original was lost but I’m intrigued by your multiple new personalities!

@bluesqueakpip Miss your old one but who couldn’t like a cute hamster and a little blue squeak?

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@timeloop – sorry, meant to say, I saw your request earlier.  Got your avatar OK.

And yes, definitely need a cocktail for River –  champers is spot on. But agree with @Shazzbot it should have something else with it for a little extra glam, and some intrigue.

@fatmaninabox – no worries – the one on here is fine  (You’re bigger than many 😉  )  And not all ScaryBs are me – there’s a few of us out there haha, so best not tweet it – might give them a bit of a shock!  😉

PS @phaseshift – How’s the Patented Hangover Cure recipe coming along??

 

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@Shazzbot

11 absentees, 11 drinks – that works – @phaseshift‘s got 11 cocktails so far and is working on a couple of others for spoilers and for the TARDIS. Perfect!

Er… you did say the pub was B&B didn’t you? 😆

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@osakahatter, @thommck @magnetite @steve-thorp – all avatars received safe and sound, thnx

@whohar you are completely unpixilated now 🙂

@miapatrick I’ve no idea what you did when you were uploading, but it’s great. (And agree with you re bonkersness award for @Shazzbot 😉 )

@Shazzbot – we could invent a new drinking game – and have a drink (could work our way round @phaseshift‘s specially concocted Doctor cocktails)  for each of our absent friends…! ::hic:: Xp

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Avatars

@blenkinsopthebrave – I am in complete agreement with you. Not to mention that you get to a stage in life where a degree of fuzziness in a photo is a definite plus, haha (which is where avatars are indispensible)

@miapatrick I have to admit your avatar has always had me stumped, beyond it looking like a slightly weird yorkie. (I love it, but it’s weird)

The avatars will look like they do on here, just bigger.

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Lovely interview with Moffat just posted on the BBC site. An Evening with Steven Moffat – giving a wee rundown of all the Doctors in turn, with clips.

Aw

 

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@phaseshift @jimthefish @wolfweed @galactus (in particular)

Thought you might be interested in this from recent article in the  Guardian – a gallery of  Dave McKean covers, mostly Sandman, with little comments about them by the man himself.  Stunning artwork.

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@juniperfish @Shazzbot

Further to recent John Donne mentions, came across this, in today’s Graun – there’s a virtual reconstruction of the St Paul’s Cross pulpit – not just the buildings, but they’ve calculated what the acoustics would be like for people listening, to produce a vid which gives you the virtual experience of being there while Donne delivers his sermon.

(Who says this place isn’t educational, LOL!)

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@thommck

LOVE the barge 🙂

Perfect for exploring the backwaters of the universe, and watery portals!

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@blenkinsopthebrave @janetteb @whohar @wolfweed @jimthefish @phaseshift

And @ everyone who wants to send their Avatar to the London pub meeting on 22nd, to represent them in their absence –

I’ve been experimenting with the avatars/photoshop and delighted to say life’s got a bit simpler.  I can work with the ones on here OK – no need to send higher res pics to @craig (unless you want to). You won’t be life size(!), but even the lowest res ones go up to at least 6 x 6cm OK.

Just let me, Craig or @Shazzbot know if you want to be represented this way. Deadline to be included – midnight – Tues 19 Nov (GMT)

Blenkinsop, JanetteB and Whohar – you are on the list, so no need to do anything else for now.

@whohar

The Asylum of the Whovians

Haha, nice one

How about a Raving of Whovians… or with certain fans it could be a Ravening of Whovians!

And we still have the standard of bonkersness definition – Bonkers as a bathful of fishes

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@bluesqueakpip

I just realised that – two weeks from today – we’re all going to be nursing terrible hangovers

How right you are. Never looked forward to one so much.

We can blame chief potion-maker @phaseshift   Er… any chance of a pickmeup Mr P? (The Regeneration Cocktail 😉 )

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@wolfweed – sorry, meant to post this for you ages ago – report from Stripped (Edin Book Festival comics bit)

https://www.edbookfest.co.uk/the-festival/stripped

There’s links to interviews (inc Grant Morrison, Neil Gaiman), blogs, videos, all sorts of good stuff. Only snag is… it’s all over for this year 🙁

 

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Thanks for breaking me out of jail @Shazzbot 🙂

The prediction –

The man who lies will lie no more

when this man lies at Trenzalore

The man who lies is the GI

He will lie no more since he’s now been split along the Doctor’s timeline,  and been swallowed up by the now collapsed timestream. Unlike Clara he didn’t have the Doctor jumping in to rescure him.

This man could also be the GI – ie the one who tells a lie at Trenzalore, or it could be the Doctor “lying” as in being dead. Or the GI lying as in being dead.

 

AAAAAAAAAARGH! Splodey head. Tried to tackle too many paradoxes this morning!

::goes off to lie down again 😉 ::

 

 

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@janetteb

There is one things which is clear about Anthony Coburn from that article, he fathered a pratt

Fell off the sofa at that.  Comment of the morning 😀

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@craig, @Shazzbot – am I spamming again? My last post on this thread just disappeared when I clicked submit 🙁 (and thanks to whoever fixed my disappearing first paragraph on the trailer comments thread)

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@bluesqueakpip @arkleseizure I like your musings on Clara, souffles and recipes

See my post http://www.thedoctorwhoforum.com/sidrat/the-trailer-discuss-it-here/comment-page-4/#comment-1520 (and the following one at 08.44) re why the timestream/scar tissue and the big tombTARDIS no longer exisist by the end of the episode.

(No doubt there is a massive big hole in my reasoning, ha! But I look forward to seeing how you all deconstruct it 😉 )

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