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28 December 2013 at 13:48 #23519
Throughout Eleven’s run, there’ve been ‘two Doctors’. One: the post-return-of-Gallifrey Doctor who’s on Trenzalore throughout all these events, without his TARDIS, fighting a siege. Doctor Two: ‘the Doctor in the TARDIS’ – the pre-return-of-Gallifrey Doctor. Who doesn’t know.
That’s a very intriguing idea.
Are you thinking that 1 of the 2 crashing TARDISes might have been the one in TotD which went AWOL for 300 years…? (Same TARDIS, different points in its timeline).
So… are the 300 years Eleven spends saving Trenzalore children, contemporaneous with the 300 years he takes to experience series 5, 6, 7? (ages 900 – 1200 (approx)).
Whooah…. need to lie down in dark room before I think about this some more. Head splodin stuff! 😀
@fatmaninabox – Glad to see you’re recycling 😉
28 December 2013 at 11:53 #23515@fatmaninabox @thommck and other Tweeters
Just come across Dalek Thay on Twitter – he’s quite amusing for a Dalek – tho a bit pissed off at the moment, what with the Dalek ship being blown up and the doctor escaping. Again.
28 December 2013 at 11:46 #23514Dear Time Lords, I know you are out there, behind the crack in the universe.
I wonder if it would be possible to change the image of Matt Smith, now that he has gone?
That’s a good idea.
Have @jimthefish or @wolfweed got any generic images they want to submit (tho I still vote for JtF’s cuddly 3-D daleks!)
Or anyone else – I suggested a while back putting a request on the Home page for original artworks from members. (No copyright infringements tho)
28 December 2013 at 11:40 #23513Hope you enjoyed it and have a fabulous holiday
😀
Good question re what would you change. Will have a ponder. (It can’t help but change with the arrival of Capaldi 😉 )
28 December 2013 at 11:27 #23512Apologies for last post length… this one’s definitely shorter.
Random thoughts/things that made me smile –
Handles – couldn’t quite make out the dialogue, but did the Doctor say he found it in the Maldovar market? (@FatManinaBox – your dept, I think)
Tasha Lem is the Doctor’s secret supplier of marshmallows 🙂
The Doctor’s comment about the Daleks taking so long to say anything that he’ll die of boredom first (before they shoot)
The Field of Trenzalore is a Truth Field (And thanks to @bluesqueakpip for reminding me of the full statement from the GI – “the old man” takes on so much more resonance after part 3 (TotD))
Loved all the callouts to Eleventh Hour (listed by others above)
The TARDIS can be activated remotely
The thought that both Matt and Karen having shaved heads might have initiated the “wig” gags
28 December 2013 at 11:15 #23511Finally, just managed to do a rewatch (feckin catchup TV – no sign of TotD – how do they expect to get the rewatch figs up when you can’t rewatch!)
😥 <grabs another box of tissues> 😥
I’m just a big blob of mush! Got me from Clara’s Gran’s story about wanting time to stand still (till the end!). I like Clara’s Gran. Her dad and step-mum were a bit 1D*, but she nailed it in 2 lines and a couple of twinkly looks!
Afterthoughts –
@bluesqueakpip – masterful analysis as ever – have you and Moffat ever been seen in the same room at the same time?! 🙂
@jimthefish – Agree – watching the bow tie drop was a lovely touch (a red one, I notice)
@gothamcelt – yes he drinks, but spits it straight back into the glass again – maybe it’s a Papal Mainframe custom, like wine-tasting
@RTDfan – while I agree there are a lot of similarities between Tasha and River, the River in LKH was Mels (rather than Mel) – which leaves an awful lot of As for an anagram. I’m more interested in the fact she could fly the TARDIS. Certainly the Doctor gave her the key (he gave her the key!!) but it’s implied this wasn’t her first time. But the TARDIS must have liked/trusted her.
Overall it felt like a requiem for Matt’s time as Eleven – all his enemies, and Amy. It establishes the Doctor’s character very strongly, even in this apparently most flighty of Doctors. Given the choice, he stays. For what, maybe 500 years? That makes Eleven’s body pushing 1,000. I thought it was lovely that for once it’s the companion (sorry, associate!), not the Doctor, who stays young while he ages dramatically, but naturally – it’s not something he can be “rescued” from. (I mentioned it before, but I loved the references to Hartnell – the hair, the grumpiness, the stick, the idea of wearing a bit thin (ie ageing)).
He can’t change his own future because he’s part of it. But mainly he’s seizing control of his future by continuing to do what he can – to defend, entertain, and save the children – till he finally drops. He’s not looking for special favours to escape death. But when he’s given the new cycle he’s delighted – not because he’s escaped death, but because he can defeat the Daleks and restore peace to Trenzalore, he knows for sure that the TimeLords are alive and functioning – and he’s got a new lease of life through them making a massive rule break. .
As it’s Christmas and Matt’s last I feel charitable towards the, to be frank, shit aim of the cybermen, daleks etc throughout 😉 Why was Clara not zapped back in time by the Angel when it grabbed her ankle? (Does the hologram circuit (yes, sorry, caught up on that one now, thought it was the people who were holograms, not the clothing) also protect against Angel contact?)
And the name of the Doctor? It’s the Doctor. Just the Doctor, NOT Doctor Who! 😉
*Talking about 1D, had a chuckle at Clara’s comment about boy-bands, given 1D’s attempts at piggy-backing on the Doctor’s PR
26 December 2013 at 23:04 #23431Yay! welcome back, and hope your lack of internet is resolved soon. Greetings to your wee Scottish granny btw.
I wondered that too, about aging Matt up so the contrast between him and Capaldi is less. It also makes sense when this is a much older, more mature, post-angst Eleven. He’s not sure that he’s not the last of his people, but at least he now knows he didn’t kill them all.
One last Drunk Giraffe
Eh? Missed that. What’s that about?
26 December 2013 at 22:51 #23430@Purofilion
<offers tissue from the now much depleted box!>
Glad you enjoyed – me too 😥
Like you I enjoyed the church refs – but maybe that also depends on age and upbringing. (I also thought it was quite brave in a Christmas episode, tho the Papal Mainframe ultimately turned out fairly benign (I think!)) (The Silence as the perfect confessors is quite intriguing – you forget everything you’ve just confessed to them – might be better for the “sinner” if it worked the other way round, haha)
“reverse the polarity” – good spot, that came up in the 50th as well.
😀
26 December 2013 at 22:43 #23427Agree with all your comments about carers, especially –
the daleks are atos, right?
Brilliant!
I think the extra power could come from both sources – it’s a big bolt from the TimeLords (whose motivation may still be self-serving rather than grateful), but yes, it’s also early on in the cycle – a hint that this will be a reinvigorated Doctor, maybe. But I also like the symmetry of Eleven’s coming and going in fire.
26 December 2013 at 22:26 #23424I did try to open my present early this morning but the internet wasn’t having it! (So not so much wise, as forced! (try having half a dozen of your mother in law to watch it with! ))
Re the iplayer comment – I’m sure it was.
26 December 2013 at 22:21 #23423Last thought for now…
@bluesqueakpip – while I agree with you that Tasha is definitely the Doctor’s “type” I also think @rob picked out a lot of similarities between her and River. (And I’m really glad they didn’t confirm our worries the other day about her looking like standard female villain). Really chilling line about having “to kill her before she’d give that up” “We did – 3 times.”
And I loved the parallel with her and Clara in being able to overcome dalekisation.
But… a thought… the Doctor and Clara need to have avatars to board the Papal Mainframe. Is everyone on the PF an avatar then? So is there an original Tasha still alive somewhere? Or does the original die when their avatar does? (or have I got completely the wrong end of the stick with this?)
And presumably it was the change in DotD which zapped Gallifrey out of the known universe, but left at least some of the daleks surviving and untimelocked that meant they could build up their forces for the attack here. If the Doctor lets the TimeLords back through the crack they either get blasted out of existence by the Daleks catching them unawares… or the Time Wars start again and everything he did in DotD is for nothing.
26 December 2013 at 22:01 #23422I agree with you re not asking for extra regenerations. We’ve commented before about how wrong that would be. And that in contrast to Tennant’s “I don’t want to go”, Smith’s Doctor is the one who is resigned to actually dying, never mind regenerating.
I had a quick look on the Graun board, but couldn’t bear more than the first half page of comments! I don’t understand people saying they were underwhelmed by the regeneration – it doesn’t get much more massive than blowing up a Dalek mothership! (Which reminded me of the moment in DotD when he used the TARDIS as a battering ram (fangirl squee!)). The Eleventh came in on an explosion and left the same way. And I completely forgive the slight indulgence of giving Matt a final farewell scene when he should technically have been Capaldi by then – I was just thinking “nooooooooo – too soon, I want a goodbye!” And they did. With Amy. And Amelia
I didn’t have the same problem some had with Matt’s makeup, although I think he could have played it equally convincingly with less. What I loved was the silver haired look at the end – that, together with the astrakhan collar made me think “Hartnell”. I went all mushy at that – that the Doctor at the end of his cycle looks like the first at the end of his life. Also that Eleven’s essentially dying of old age reminded me of the First regenerating because his body was “wearing a bit thin”. Time Lords age like everything else, it just takes a bit longer.
I’m looking forward to the next series to see where this new, lighter baggaged Doctor will go. And well done @bluesqueakpip on the resetting the clock call. I know there’s some ambiguity, and some discussion, but I think it’s clearly intended that Capaldi is the first of a new 12 regen cycle. Now – is his memory loss just post regen scrambled-brains, or is it something else. ha! He’s just found out the the TimeLords (and Gallifrey) are definitely still around somewhere – but then forgets all about them!
The 50th special and the Christmas special in the same year have different needs and aims from regular episodes, and I admit to judging them slightly differently, but I think they hit all the right buttons. As a long time fan, I’ve been in Who-heaven about them, and all the minisodes and spinoffs, like the Fiveish Doctors – I’m still catching up with some of them, LOL.
26 December 2013 at 21:34 #23420@cathannabel – Great to see you back
Nice comments about different reactions depending on age of the viewer. I very much agree with you –
if you’re old enough to have lost people, to have had to make hard choices, to have got some of them wrong, and to have missed chances that will not come round again
(and also @blenkinsopthebrave‘s similar comments)
I would add to that making the choice to spend a chunk of your life as a carer – the Doctor does it in the role of protector, but it comes to the same thing. Admittedly (and he admits it himself) he doesn’t have a huge choice in it as the TARDIS is AWOL, but it’s a very Doctorish thing to do. But most carers also don’t know how long it will last or where it will go when they take it on.
I’ve really enjoyed the themes of memory and loss that have run through Matt’s tenure. It’s under the surface throughout; I like how a lot of Moffat’s work seems to be “surface” on first viewing (which is what draws a lot of criticism) and yet unpacks to great depth when you chose to think about it more. (And thanks again to all the people on here who help in doing that; I love all the ideas and references that all of you come up with (even the ones I disagree with 😉 )
26 December 2013 at 21:18 #23419Just dropping in quickly to wish everyone Happy Christmas. Hope you all enjoyed your Christmas Who as much as I did. Had to watch it timeshifted as I was surrounded by non-Whovians yesterday. Huge sympathies to @miapatrick (It’s why I chose to be patient (not saying it was easy, especially as the clock got to 7.30pm!) and bless iplayer 🙂 Some things have changed for the better in the last 50 years!)
@bluesqueakpip Thanks for the link – love it! (And nice to see the party dress coming out again )
one should always choose the Doctor!
Ahahahahaha. Love it. But sometimes we just don’t have the choice so sometimes we have to postpone the Doctor till Boxing Day. The best things are worth waiting for, to be savoured alone or with like minded people. (And I love my family, they’re great, but they don’t “get” Dr Who)
24 December 2013 at 19:21 #23340That’s just GROSS!!!
It’s not cooked – send it back to the kitchen. 😉
Christmas Cheers everyone
<clink>
24 December 2013 at 19:11 #23339“kids are bonkers with excitement…” sums up this forum quite nicely!
Sums me up, that’s for sure. I’m going to be wishing Christmas day away till it’s Time for the Doctor 😉
@thommck Nice (11th hour, ha!) theory re Stormageddon
Matt is the 13th Doctor
that’s got me confused tho… I thought he’s either #11 or #12. I’ve missed a regeneration!! 😯
24 December 2013 at 18:57 #23338Thanks everyone for all the music contributions for Christmas.
In keeping with the happy-sad occasion that is tomorrow’s Christmas Dr Who, and Matt’s bowing out, I would like to leave you with possibly the saddest Christmas song ever. The inimitable Alex Harvey from 1964 (and as you maybe haven’t heard him before). Tissues at the ready =) Happy Christmas everyone, see you on the other side (or maybe sooner!)
24 December 2013 at 18:54 #23337Thanks as ever for all the links.
The combom article about the recovered Troughtons is VERY interesting, especially about why the BBC has to negotiate for the rights to screen them, royalties, and indeed, about episode 3 of WoF. Ties in with some very persistent long-standing rumours.
23 December 2013 at 10:11 #23272Oops, sorry… the angel on the tree… it’s just my old avatar…. I wondered where that had got to 😳
Have some (snowflecked) jammy dodgers….
23 December 2013 at 10:08 #2327123 December 2013 at 10:07 #23270I’m thinking re the McGann/Hurt regeneration, with intervention by the Sisterhood, not so much that it doesn’t count, but that it sets a precedent. (And aided regenerations aren’t unknown – Pertwee as you mentioned, but also Troughton (tho that was kick-started rather than aided)).
the beeb don’t have to mess with who canon
I would doubt very much if the beeb have much idea what canon is (beyond timetravelling Doctor, police box, sexy companion(s), daleks, cybermen) – never mind what Moffat’s just done to it, and what he may be about to do to it! 😀
23 December 2013 at 09:29 #23263Yay!
Now we’re looking properly festive* 😀
(Oh, and I love the Santa hat. See – a little bit of a (nearly!)complimentary colour really does bring out your blue notes beautifully 😉 )
(did you check the tree for Sycorax-ness btw?)
*<sighs> I’m NEVER going to get this stuff out of my fur. EVER 😯
23 December 2013 at 09:20 #23262Nice summing up and speculation by @phaseshift and @bluesqueakpip in particular.
We’ve been saying since this forum started that we suspected we might see a mighty reboot his year. I would not be at all surprised if we go back to the crack as @blenkinsopthebrave says. The thing I like most about Moffat’s reboots (so far!) is that everything changes and yet nothing has if you don’t want it to, and don’t look under the surface. Very often it’s the viewers perception of the event/story that’s changed – Like the revelation that Clara is in fact a dalek in Asylum, or the timetraveller in Hide. Gallifrey turned out not to have burned, and yet it doesn’t affect any of the history or the Doctor’s motivation since 2005, as he doesn’t remember. (that’s his punishment for even considering pressing the button). But it does clear the decks for a new direction. Clara jumping into the Doctor’s timestream could change everything or nothing about the past.
All the references that have been scattered throughout SM’s tenure – Phoenix/Isis/rebirth, memories, fairy stories, @bluesqueakpip‘s meta-textual readings, importance of children/families, the connections between River and Clara – I hope will come good. I’m hoping for River, and it would be nice to see @fatmaninabox‘s namesake again. And yes – explosions! (well, if you’ve got a specially built exploding dalek, you really should use it, LOL)
I also think it’s interesting that the Sisterhood were reintroduced so recently, particularly when McGann could just have straightforwardly regenerated into Hurt. Will the potion have any effect re future regenerations? Will the Sisterhood intervene again (as @devilishrobby suggested) to keep the Doctor going so he can find the Timelords (for their own selfish reasons of course)?
23 December 2013 at 08:50 #23260::stumbles in and flops on the sofa… traumatised, but still trailing sparkly space-glitter*::
2 days trapped in a time-bubble, with no internet, waiting for the nice man from Virgin to come and free me! Not to mention flickering lightbulbs and strange scurrying noises in the corner… Well, the last one may have been just my imagination… or mice… or rampant paranoia – just no-one mention Closing Time! OK?
Love all the suggestions for communal TV viewing. Nightmare Man and The Flipside of Dominic Hyde would both get my vote, mainly cos I missed them 1st time round. No problem with anything that’s been suggested. Good call from @janetteb on Fringe (another one I missed, but I remember a few people talking v favourably about it, possibly on here). And anything from B5 – tho Coming of Shadows is a great choice.
Anyone know if any of Doomwatch still exists. Would love to see again, and I suspect it would stand up well to contemporary viewing.
Best of luck to everyone tackling festive cleaning. @MartyB Sounds like your house would now pass the most ARSE-laden Tripadvisor reviewer! Sieze the moral highground and bask in the shine from your skirting boards 😉
*@juniperfish
space-glitter is immutable
You are so right – I fully expect to still be “pinging” in unexpected shafts of light and scattering sparkly bits on the sofa come Series 8 in August! ::looks round nervously for the Pledge-wielding overlord before scurrying over to the TotD thread 😛 ::
19 December 2013 at 01:44 #23090@MartyB Wholeheartedly agree with you re The Last Waltz. Sets the standard. Apparently it came about almost accidentally when Robbie Robertson suggested that as it was the Band’s last gig that maybe they should get it filmed, just for the record. Oh and his friend Martin (Scorcese) had a camera and might be able to help out! The next thing they know they’ve got a multi camera team and full crew running all over the place.
@whisht – Anything with Charlie Brown works for me! (Seriously, I really enjoyed that)
@Purofilion – I’m generally more of a rock n roll girl myself, but like to stray into music’s various other highways and byways as well. Which is a sneaky way of easing in a link to more from the Belfast Cowboy 😉
18 December 2013 at 10:10 #23035::sneaks back in to brush flecks of @juniperfish‘s space-glitter off the sofa before @fatmaninabox notices (haha he’s probably too busy playing with John Barrowman 😉 ) ::
18 December 2013 at 10:07 #23034@MartyB You post as much Van the Man as you like, as far as I’m concerned!
(LOL’d at @whisht‘s Mr Scruff)
@phaseshift‘s recent On the Sofa post reminded me how dire Xmas shopping music is. The alternative Xmas soundtrack starts here. This is for Keef (aka Mr Riff), who’s 70 today 🙂
18 December 2013 at 10:03 #2303017 December 2013 at 19:11 #22998@arbutus @MartyB
Extremely well remembered, it was indeed @whisht
great post – http://www.thedoctorwhoforum.com/forums/topic/on-the-sofa-3/page/9/#post-19831
Where do you find all that stuff?! I never cease to be amazed 🙂 (Is it photoshopped? Did they all take turns to pose in the suit? Have to say Matt’s the only one that really carries it off 😀 )
17 December 2013 at 14:32 #22972As pretty as it was, all that glitter you were dropping just had to go
::stamps foot and looks hurt::
Wasn’t me! I’m a victim. It was that bow tied doppelganger-obsessed fish… in the alternate timestream of Sofa 3! Not my fault it cascades out of my fur every time I move!
http://www.thedoctorwhoforum.com/forums/topic/on-the-sofa-3/page/19/#post-22844
Welcome back any time you feel the urge!
Us lurkers are quite sinister really…
Well I’m certainly not going to argue with a cyberhead in Santa-hat! 😀
17 December 2013 at 11:34 #22964::looks round the new spic and span sofa::
You’ve been redecorating I see…
😉
(VERY impressed)
re the DVD for DotD – unless they’re bringing out a new special edition, there are very few extras on it, tho there is the McGann prequel. Missed op IMHO (The FMiaB version sounds much more interesting, I reckon). Thanks for the heads-up re Davison’s extra scenes
17 December 2013 at 08:41 #22938So glad you enjoyed it – thought you would. It was full of lovely touches, and I agree with you that Hartnell having a relationship with the TARDIS is one of them. Bradley did a great job on the characterisation – you can see the vulnerability of the aging, jobbing actor under a quite prickly outer skin.
Did William Hartnell actually say “I don’t want to go” or was that Mark Gatiss linking past and present?
He didn’t say it as far as I remember. I reckon that was a wink to AG fans, and Tennant ones in particular
17 December 2013 at 08:31 #22937the Doctor not getting shot at Lake Silencio
Fixed points – maybe the fixed point is that the Doctor DOESN’T get shot – he only appears to be.
17 December 2013 at 08:17 #22933::waves @fatmaninabox and does a deep grovelling bow of congratulations at your new modshipness:: Nice one 🙂
Thanks to various re comments about living museums. The one at New Lanark (near Glasgow) is really good too.
@Purofilion Times were tougher back then, glad you seem to have survived it OK. Kids are remarkably resilient, and tend to grow up to be whoever they’ll be regardless of their parents, so long as they know that they’re basically loved. (haha, and yes parents know more than kids think)
Last word on an old subject. My suggestion re picking up on older subjects on here – can we work on the priniciple that what happened on page 17 stays on page 17…? 😉
::tries to brush Xmas glitter off fur… nope, going to be sparkly for the rest of the day (looks pointedly @juniperfish). Mmmm, quite like it :-)::
17 December 2013 at 08:05 #22931Given all this talk, is the pub getting closed and replaced with a coffee shop?
No, it’s just taking a tip from the Australian model, as described by @janetteb (hi there 🙂 ) and selling (excellent) coffee and cake as well as booze. Which is my excuse for being here at this time in the morning. 😀
@rob – I may move in with you!
Cheers everyone
PS No-one makes espressos like Italians in Italy. (brew till there’s half an espresso cup of liquid, then add 3 teaspoons of sugar. Way to go). ::bounces out the pub::
14 December 2013 at 23:39 #22824Glad it worked.
I, uh, only mentioned the silver foil cos… well, put it this way, microwaves are a bit newfangled for our family 😳 My mum killed another one when she put it on with nothing in it “to heat up”. Well, it is called an oven!
14 December 2013 at 23:05 #22822@purofilion Good to see you back 🙂 Remember – barking’s always better than biting and one doesn’t inevitably lead to the other.
@MartyB That’s an impressive bark you have there 😉
@bluesqueakpip Er… microwaving a Christmas cake…??? Does that work? (just don’t do it in anything resembling silver foil! 😯 (cybercake fail))
And welcome to @alloftimeandspace and welcome back @zaphod
Mega sympathies to both of you – that’s tough being out of broadcast range. Sounds as bad as Canada (@Blenkinsopthebrave territory). Lots of bark there I believe. But not much Dr Who.
14 December 2013 at 18:44 #22805OOOh, love the new avatar 🙂
Fixed points – my theory is that fixed points are relative. ie if they’re tampered with, the history from the perspective of the tamperer could change radically, perhaps causing their erasure from time. eg Rose might have turned out a well balanced teenager who would never have dreamed of getting mixed up with a madman in a box if she hadn’t had father abandonment issues.
But changing fixed points doesn’t necessarily mean the end of the universe in general, just as we know it.
14 December 2013 at 12:43 #22794With huge amounts of respect, your first comment could be read in different ways, with different undertones. Pls don’t take this badly, we all do it sometimes (and I’m crossing my fingers you know me well enough that you won’t mis-read this, it’s not meant as criticism, just a comment). @Purofilion knows you less well than some of the rest of us, so has less context to judge from.
::ducks head back under the parapet::
14 December 2013 at 12:38 #22793@Purofilion
Ditto @whisht and @bluesqueakpip
And from an extremely selfish POV, as RL has kept me off the site recently and I’ve had no chance to interact with you, and was looking forward to it. But yes, old family arguments are generally best avoided 😉
13 December 2013 at 09:15 #22722@purofilion @bluesqueakpip
re the Crimson Horror – that was one of my favourites 😉 I loved Smithy’s performance, and Diana Rigg and Rachel Stirling knocked it out the park (as BSP pointed out) for nuance. There are some advantages to having grown up with the show in the 60s – it’s easier to overlook the occasional mis-step in monster design when the sub-text and characterisation was so strong 🙂
The memory worm (ta for the post @wolfweed) OTOH is seriously creepy, esp from the underside. Ugh! 😀
13 December 2013 at 08:59 #2272113 December 2013 at 08:49 #22719“Of course he knew” regarding the question about whether Moffat knew about the recovered Troughton when reintroducing the GI
Moffat must either laugh his ass off, or weep buckets at all the comments about him being a “lazy writer” who “makes it up as he goes along”. And I suspect the Xmas special will prove his long term planning in buckets! (<jumps up and down> I said that, I said that! 🙂 )
“It has been noticed that television just handed cinema it’s ass”
Didn’t it just!
😀
Re delayed series 8 – I do suspect the delay is due to the amount of work that’s gone into the main 2 episodes this year. Not just the budget, but the energy/creative levels will need to be recharged. (The 50th had the energy of at least half a normal season!)
And thanks to @juniperfish and @wolfweed for newslinks service. (I’m not brave enough to google “Dr Who” at the moment (“spoilers!”), so filtered news is so much appreciated)
10 December 2013 at 21:01 #22596@craig – think my last post to blenkinsop (and others) has gone to the spam isolation chamber. (it had quite a few links in it)
10 December 2013 at 20:58 #22595I recommend this blog if you want a rundown of TimeLord appearances throughout the show’s history http://www.thedoctorwhoforum.com/sidrat/time-lords-time-locked-and-im-loving-it/
@blenkinsopthebrave Go into AAiS&T with your usual open mind and I doubt you’ll be disappointed (as a fellow 1st episoder and Hartnell fan) (sorry that sounds a bit smug, wasn’t meant to). There’s a blog for discussion of it.
And the Fiveish Doctors – have you seen that too? (Davison, C Baker and McCoy having a ball ripping the p out of the show, themselves and everything.
Haha – there’s just been too much Dr Who on to keep up with.
10 December 2013 at 20:29 #22588That’s good to hear. End of the day some people like some episodes more than others, we don’t all like the same ones. Just as well, or it would be mighty boring around here. It can also be difficult when expectations are built up to the feverpitch of Who’s 50th. But I do hope you like it better this time round. It’s probably better seen on a bigger screen than a phone (tho I understand the temptation – fortunately my phone siezes up completely if I try).
I’m not suggesting you go back and study all the posts on this thread in detail, but it’s worth a skim for discussion on a lot of the points you raise, if you’re interested. (I was just summarising a lot of other people’s thoughts)
Oh, and just a thought re your apples analogy – there are LOTS of different kinds of apples which can taste and look very different from each other. If you’re used to tart green granny smiths and suddenly get a small aromatically sweet and soft cox’s pippin (or vice versa) you might go Bleurgh initially. But then you get used to the different taste. Sometimes they become your favourite.
🙂
10 December 2013 at 19:58 #22585<waves @MartyB>
Yay! Another B. We have @janetteb as well, and 1 or 2 silent members – we’re building slowly, but we will fight back against the fishy enclave.
😈
Doubly welcome for all the ARSE appreciation!
Fear not – you (and @arbutus) are not alone in having families/friends who Don’t Get Who, or who don’t actually want to discuss it 24 hrs/day, LOL. That’s why this forum exists 😀 (Lot of fans of the Wife in Space… around here too).
Glad you’ve dived straight in. And don’t worry, the internet is your friend – there are very few on here who can actually remember whole chunks of dialogue from 30/40/50 years ago word for word. Some came to it through the Target novels, or the audio stuff, some watched some Doctors then drifted away when hormones kicked in. The more variety of viewpoints the better for bonkers therorising.
But be warned… it’s is highly addictive!
10 December 2013 at 19:42 #22584A big hi to MrsB as well.
Did you catch the various prequels? Night of the Doctor and The Last Day are really worth tracking down. There are links on here somewhere – can dig them out for you if you need them. And has Advenure in Space and Time made the trek yet? (I sniffled a lot watching that)
10 December 2013 at 19:38 #22583Sorry you didn’t enjoy DotD as much as some. Please forgive me having a chuckle at your comment that “Doctor Who isn’t what it used to be“. It’s changed much less since the TV Movie (believe me, that got a few fans in a right tizz!) than it has since 1963! One of the reasons it’s lasted 50 years is that change is built into its DNA. But sometimes it’s hard to see beyond the story you want/expected it to be.
I’m glad you agree that the 50th anniversary show needs to be a bit different from an episode in a series, but sorry you don’t think it’s tightly scripted. You mentioned IA/DotM as examples of stories you like (and I agree with you, they’re among my fav episodes too), and yet you could argue that the plot holes in those are massive! I’m firmly in the camp that everything you need to unpack the details of DotD (and most Moffat episodes) are in the script, the acting and the direction, especially if you include the McGann prequel. Just how much more graphic can you get than the woman who McGann has rather dramatically swooped in to rescue, in full expectation that she will come with him and be dazzled by his “bigger on the inside” machine, would rather die – in a crashing, burning spaceship – than trust a Time Lord.
Re Time Lords – Moffat builds on the myth in DotD. New fans and old learned quite a lot of new things about Time Lords and Gallifreyans (might not be the same thing) in DotD. Some of them seem to be much like earth people – the Emergency Council; there’s a suspicious-sounding little cabal – the High Council – off plotting their own plans, seemingly in isolation. And I think you are right that’s a reference to Rassilon and co in TEoT (not all the TLs with Rassilon seemed to be as crazy as he was – but they were people who had run out of options).
Hurt’s performance is effortless in suggesting a worldweary, battlescarred and exhausted man. Until he meets the Moment and starts to reconnect with his old selves, with the person he used to be, and deep down still is. You want a dramatic big gun – things are so bad he has to use the TARDIS (which he says in BoSJ that he never takes into battle) as a battering ram to splatter the Daleks threatening the kids. (See various posts by others above for more detail)
But you do need to pay very close attention. I don’t mean that as a criticism of yourself. DotD in particular is designed for repeat viewings, and slow unpicking. Nearly every line/scene has multiple functions, including call-outs to the show’s history.
10 December 2013 at 19:08 #22581<jumps up and down in joy!>
@blenkinsopthebrave is back!!!
Glad the good Doctor’s TARDIS finally penetrated the frozen wastes of Canada! Did you manage to miss the news about T Baker reveal?
Look forward to hearing your thoughts, but I like your comment about “everyone is playing a version of themselves” – which may or may not tie into the various theories about dualities – alternative timestreams, red/blue bow ties etc
Any thoughts on @bluesqueakpip‘s question of the thread – Who painted the painting…? 🙂
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