[Arbutus @replies]

Here’s a not-quite-contemporaneous “Robin and Marian” song (probably about a century after the RoS setting).

[Arbutus @replies]

@brewski   Re: Clara knowing about the Doctor’s life on Gallifrey: One thought is that the Doctor could easily have made a random remark at some point that might have allowed Clara to guess that he came from a privileged background. The other possibility is that Robin could have interpreted her story about the Doctor’s identity in a medieval way. Certainly someone coming from a society like Gallifrey could be seen by a medieval human as “coming from wealth and power”.

And I like your Missy theories.

@zeitgeis    If asked, I would never categorize Dr. Who as a serious or dark show. It has serious and sometimes dark themes, but fundamentally it’s meant to entertain. Or maybe that’s just my perspective, coming to the new show as a BG fan, the show always moved back and forth between being more serious and more silly.

@idiotsavon (and others)   I think the Doctor was competing, not for Clara, but to be right. He said there is no Robin Hood, dammit, there will be no Robin Hood! Also, this: perhaps he was competing more generally to be alpha male. Well, we have seen that the Doctor will even vie with himself for alpha male status, so yes, definitely, I would think. We have also seen past doctors sulking when things didn’t go their way (Four, Six, even Three as I recall). I too enjoyed the line “At last, something real.” His relief that there was something he could finally get to grips with.

Lots of interesting stuff being said here about the Doctor’s relationship with Clara, and the Doctor’s moral centre, and so on. I think I will finally be able to get in a rewatch today, yay! So I will likely have more thoughts after that.

[Arbutus @replies]

@chickenelly   I like your Shrek analogies, especially the Robin Hood one. I had forgotten that scene, but that RH is exactly the one this RH reminded me of. They had the same bright, camp, over-the-top quality.

[Arbutus @replies]

@janetteb     The Doctor likes to play the mythical hero and does not appreciate competition.  This is interesting! I read that competition as more of a general “two big egos meetup”, because as I said earlier, I am definitely getting the feeling here that the Doctor is not at all comfortable in the hero role (although he seems to burst into it in moments of crisis, nonetheless– you can’t take the hero out of the Doctor, I guess!). I had the same thought about Clara’s dress, it reminded me of a Halloween costume I wore a few years ago! Loved it.

@wolfweed     I think that’s Clara in the spoon.

@whisht    Yes, and what would “the promised land” mean to a robot?

Two great new theories: @janetteb‘s Missy as an infection in Clara’s mind, and @fivefaces  “Missy as Lenin” (can we take that to mean “Missy as the architect of revolution”? Keep ’em coming, Boys and Girls!

[Arbutus @replies]

@juniperfish    (Sorry you’re still sick, that is nasty!)  On first watch, I actually paused and went back to try and spot the importance of what the Doctor was suddenly eating with that spoon. It kind of jumped out at me right away. Later I realized that it was only included there to set up the duel with Robin. (Which, silly though it was, I really enjoyed!) I also wonder whether the black glove represented anything or was just there for extra flamboyance.

@purofilion     A kid’s episode.  I’m with Boyilion, quite possibly my favourite so far, where does that leave me????   🙂  Never mind, I know the answer already and I have long ago come to terms with myself (unlike the poor Doctor).

Ah, yes, ‘all property is theft was Proudhon’s line ?     See, I knew I could rely on someone to know this. (And yes, Puro, you were one of the smart people I had in mind!)

@jimbomcmaster     Yes, this is pretty much what I think about regeneration as well. Although I hadn’t associated with the physical appearance before now, more the personalities.

[Arbutus @replies]

@fivefaces   My favourite bit of the Sheriff’s monologue was actually the first part: “After Nottingham… Darby.”  A bit anticlimactic. But he got there in the end.

I wonder if all these callouts to BG Who that people are finding are going to end up part of the Missy/Promised Land arc in some way? Or if they are more related to the Doctor’s personal journey?

If I’m not mistaken, Robin’s “all property is theft” line is a pre-quote from someone much later in history. Not a medieval thinker, certainly, but maybe someone 18th or 19th century? I certainly recognized the line. Any of the smart people around here remember it?

Regarding the “six months to live” line, I read that as part of the Doctor’s fit of snark. He was pretty sulky because he firmly believed himself to be right about Robin Hood, but couldn’t prove it! (And perhaps more importantly, couldn’t convince Clara.)

[Arbutus @replies]

@whisht    I felt that the Doctor was mostly the straight man to other people so it worked for me. Capaldi played it very straight for the most part, and that may be more his personal style. I found it quite amusing, but a very different way than Matt Smith would likely have handled it.

@verbal      I agree about the TARDIS, I have noticed that as well, because I always liked the comfy library style of Movie control room. If I was living there I would definitely want an armchair!

@phaseshift    Yes, they seem to be retooling Clara as a slightly older, more educated Lucie Miller, don’t they? I’m liking her too. I expect that the Doctor and Robin were the only ones who hadn’t twigged that the “leader” the Sheriff wanted to see was Clara!

[Arbutus @replies]

Initial reaction: that was lovely. I was ready for some fun and that delivered big time. Perfect cast, lots of humour and Errol Flynnery! I was just about to be hugely disappointed in the notion that Robin Hood was real, when we got that great bit of dialogue at the end about heroes, myths, and time lords! Just perfect. And a clever twist, because I was expecting Robin to be some form of fake.

This Doctor really doesn’t want to be anyone’s hero. It isn’t just that he doesn’t care, it really makes him uneasy.

No Missy this time, but the Promised Land. I’m pleased with the very brief injections of story arc in this series.

I really like this Doctor.

History is a burden. Stories can make us fly.     🙂

[Arbutus @replies]

@midnyt     Another reason I love DW. What other show could inspire this sentence:    River has been dead since we met her.

😀

[Arbutus @replies]

@janetteb     Well, that’s a fair point. It’s never great to completely shut out possible future story lines.

And here’s another thing. There is one time when we know that the Doctor’s inner “timelord detection” mechanism definitely didn’t work, and it should have. In The Lazarus Experiment, the Doctor brings Martha back home, and they spend a good bit of time on an earth where the Master is currently masquerading as Harold Saxon. How did the Doctor not sense his presence at that time? So there could be a means in that by which Susan’s survival could be explained. As I said, I would just prefer it not to be another chameleon arch, because that’s just too easy, and there would have to be a believable reason for Susan to have arched herself.

Another thought: maybe the mysterious time lady who spoke to Wilf was Susan. And the Woman in the Shop. But not Missy, I don’t think. The Doctor made the assumption that the WitS and whoever put the message in the newspaper were the same, but it ain’t necessarily so.   🙂

 

 

 

[Arbutus @replies]

@purofilion    Thanks to you and Mr. Ilion for the words of wisdom. I’m sure he’s right. And having done this job once before with a team that was completely dysfunctional and barely made it through the season before it imploded, I can only go up from there! And I did a season of baseball once, which like cricket from the sound of it, requires you to get parents to help. This as you say is far harder than just getting the kids to lay off what one of my son’s coaches called the “bonehead plays”.      🙂

[Arbutus @replies]

@jimthefish

I love the idea of a solitary Doctor. I enjoyed that aspect of the Tennant specials, that he was traveling without a companion, and hanging out with whomever came along. I’d love to see more of that, and I agree that this Doctor would be great in that situation.

Dalekey and exterminatey    Can I just say that if these adjectives aren’t currently in the Oxford Dictionary, they should be!

[Arbutus @replies]

@brewski    Perhaps after its lie down you can give it a nice cup of alacri-tea      To quote the Tenth Doctor:    Oh yes!!!!    😀

Good point about the chameleon arch. I hope not, though. I would hate to see that start to be used as a get out of jail card every time the writers want to introduce (or reintroduce) a time lord into the story line!

@bluesqueakpip    it’s entirely possible that the Doctor hasn’t yet met his stalker  I like this! How soon we forget, and we’ve been talking about River all along. She was the obvious precedent for the Doctor meeting people he hasn’t met yet (so to speak). Sally Sparrow is another case.

I agree with your “however”. Part of my reason for not wanting Missy to be the Master is exactly that it seems way too obvious. You want a “big reveal” when we find out who she is, not an anticlimax.

[Arbutus @replies]

@phaseshift    Yes, now that you mention it, the morality discussion gets a bit less interesting when you keep coming up against the Great Wall of “Yes, well, he destroyed his entire race”. I agree that a more subtle examination of the question makes for a better subject. As with this: He subverts the Thals policy of peace at all costs to become fighters.   This is an interesting point, in light of the recent “conversation” about the show as promoting an extreme leftist ideology. Because encouraging the Thals to abandon their pacifism in order to survive isn’t very PC, is it?   🙂

We owe his curiosity 50 years of entertainment.    Yes!

[Arbutus @replies]

@serahni   I meant to add that, leaving aside my own likes and dislikes regarding previous companions and enemies, I agree that it would just be nice to bring in a new element this series. I wasn’t always nuts about the 6th series arc, but at least the threat wasn’t the same old same old. That’s the hazard of Moffat’s hanging threads, I guess: in order to resolve them, old elements sometimes have to return even when it might be nice to move on to new ones!

[Arbutus @replies]

@drdai    I love this term: a moffhint!   Well done.

@brewski   Absolutely agree re the Valeyard, I have no interest in going there.

@janetteb   Except… the Doctor always said that he would have sensed the presence of time lords who still existed. Would he not have sensed his own granddaughter?

And if Missy were the Rani, she would indeed have to be a “very different Rani”, because I can’t imagine the original Rani behaving in this stalker-like fashion. She had nothing but disdain for the Doctor, as I recall. I would have to agree with @bluesqueakpip that the Master would be the only preexisting character that I could see fitting the bill (although to be sure, I’m not convinced of that either, really!). My money is on “entirely new character”.

[Arbutus @replies]

@thekrynoidman    @fatmaninabox      😆

Weren’t those boys just adorable? Great songs, both, and a nice bouncy morning soundtrack as I drag and drop info onto various forms, having agreed in a possibly misguided spirit of volunteerism to manage my son’s soccer team this season! In which situation the title “No Time” takes on a whole new meaning. And in that connection, here is another “No Time”, this one by the Guess Who. The secondary connection being that when this iconic Canadian band first made their appearance in the mid sixties, their label released their first single under the mystery name in order to start rumours that they were really the Beatles!

[Arbutus @replies]

The Doctor’s lady friend? I guess we should have trusted Vastra after all!  🙂

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/sep/04/battleship-beast-colossal-dinosaur-skeleton-found-patagonia-argentina-dreadnoughtus-schrani

[Arbutus @replies]

@drdai    Welcome! I like your DOCTOR acronym, very nice. The episode the Doctor refers to here is the second ever serial, from back in the Hartnell era, called either The Dead Planet, or The Daleks, or The Mutants. It’s where the Doctor travels to Skaro and meets the Daleks for the very first time. You should check it out, I’m sure it’s available on Dailymotion or someplace.

[Arbutus @replies]

@thekrynoidman     Well, thanks for that. I haven’t laughed so hard since last night’s David Hasselhoff highlight. I must now quote the youtube commenter who says, “As the Dalek would say, Ho Ho Ho!”

[Arbutus @replies]

@thekrynoidman, you’re killing me. Seriously. I can’t believe that Hasselhoff version, we actually used to take him semi-seriously once. I think. That video is purely weird!

But I have a fondness for that song, it was huge when I was young, and it’s the Blue Suede version that I remember the best, although I heard the original later on and liked it (as I always liked BJ Thomas). I hadn’t realized the Blue Suede arrangement was such a blatant knock off, I hadn’t heard the Jonathan King version. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Arbutus @replies]

@scaryb    I hadn’t heard that before, but it sounds just like my childhood (musically speaking!). Lovely. @purofilion, I think there were conflicting stories as to how seriously Merle Haggard intended that song, a bit of a satire according to some. Referencing Eve of Destruction, I remember loving that song as a teenager listening to oldies radio, I found it quite haunting and not a little disturbing. Here is another one that I found very disturbing, because I didn’t entirely understand it, and it seemed to hide something terrifying that I wasn’t quite grasping. Whenever I hear this, I can picture myself as I was at about fourteen, listening to a transistor radio through an earbud when I was supposed to be asleep, radio hidden in the bed. (And I have the nerve to berate Arbutus Jr. about his iPhone after lights out! Actually, I’ve stopped doing that, not much point, really.  🙂  )

[Arbutus @replies]

@purofilion  @scaryb

[Arbutus @replies]

@silverman   the Doctor’s remark was revealing just how irrelevant the concept of age is to him – even if this incarnation looks older – but of more relevance to humans.     This makes a lot of sense to me. The Doctor is trying to think in what he sees as human terms (“You aren’t getting any younger, great you’re still making an effort” kind of clichés). Because the life cycle of a time lord is a completely different thing. A time lord’s real age is not always reflected in his physical appearance, or even in his behaviour and attitudes, because regeneration is not just a renewal of the body, but also of the mind and spirit. The Doctor gets a new body and a new outlook on life (we’ve seen this repeatedly). So really, for a time lord, the whole concept of aging in the rather simplistic human manner is moot. And for our part, it actually must take a special person or set of circumstances for a companion to truly get past a regeneration and continue to have a strong relationship afterward.

Actually, when you think about it, not many companions have actually forged strong relationships with more than one incarnation. Really, I can only remember Sarah Jane and Rose. (You could probably make a case for Mel, as her time with Six was probably more significant than what we saw, and she did have a whole season with Seven, albeit a shortish one.) So maybe that sheds a little more light on Clara’s difficulty in accepting a new Doctor.

And on another note, I wonder if the Doctor’s attitudes as distinct from those of his fellow time lords has been reinforced over a long time by more frequent regenerations (due to the insanely dangerous life he leads)?

[Arbutus @replies]

I also meant to add, re Vastra and Jenny, that Jenny comes across to me as one of those wives who played along with her husband’s belief in his own superiority, while not buying it for a second herself!

[Arbutus @replies]

@scaryb   These are really good points (and isn’t it fun to use the word “slapgate”?). However, I also agree with @nick that I didn’t see Clara as being upset about the danger they were in, more angry about the conclusion the Doctor had drawn. “Is this what we’ve learned?”

@midnyt  I think that in the previous episode it was deliberately established that the Doctor needs Clara right now, to help him through his regeneration. I would expect that as he sorts through his issues, he will not continue to need her in that way. But it has also been established many times in the past that the Doctor needs companions (not specifically Clara) to keep him on the straight and narrow, as it were.

[Arbutus @replies]

Interesting conversation about Vastra and Jenny. Not just inter-class but also same sex relationships were sometimes covered up by the pretense of mistress/servant or mistress/paid companion type relationships (as with @pedant’s example, great story, btw!). And even when the marriage was a conventional one, there were often public and private faces. Wives were meant to fill a specific role in the public perception of marriage and family, but that didn’t mean they were always limited to that role in reality. And thanks @janetteb for the reminder that we are also talking about, not just a dominant partner, but a dominant lizard partner, one who clearly from her dialogue sees her species as the superior one!

And by the way, this: I don’t think that someone who eats wrongdoers for dinner is supposed to be a role model  is brilliant! And I think your comparison to River Song is spot on.

[Arbutus @replies]

@purofilion  @midnyt  I’m guessing that the “no spring chicken” remarks aimed at Clara are meant as a joke regarding the fact that it is the Doctor himself who has aged rather dramatically! As she is so clearly young and gorgeous, they don’t bother me as they might if they were aimed at an older companion.

[Arbutus @replies]

@purofilion    Do you like cold soup? You must get beautiful tomatoes there, with all your sunshine, and I love a cold tomato and garlic soup. Sorry if that’s unbearably perky, only that I’m getting ready to say goodbye to summer here, and things like zucchini flowers and ripe tomatoes, and corn on the cob, and blueberries and peaches, and drinking rosé or prosecco on the patio… Okay, starting to cry now, better stop immediately. The men in the house get very excited about pumpkin pie and apple pie. I will be happy.

[Arbutus @replies]

@devilishrobby    Honestly, if I had to guess, I don’t think the writers probably gave it a second thought. They were likely just thinking, “Clara upset with Doctor’s attitude, after he endangers all their lives only to prove that Daleks can’t be good, slaps Doctor, accompanied by mildly funny reply to question about What’s that look for?” Inter-species, same sex kiss, definitely intended to pull a bit of attention in. Slap upside the head to the Doctor, not so much.   🙂

As I said, it didn’t much register with me on my first viewing, and had there not been a discussion, I might not have thought more about it. Having thought about it, I think I could have done without it. As @purofilion and others have said, Clara is a small woman and certainly didn’t really hurt the doctor, and there can be an argument for emotions running high. I’m not sure it warrants all the concern (although I might feel differently if I had been watching with small children, like @thommck).

[Arbutus @replies]

Oh, @scaryb, very nice indeed. My choice is less deep! Because of the title, I’ve had this one in my head this weekend. @purofilion, maybe this will “chill you out” a little!

[Arbutus @replies]

Had my rewatch. Here are a few things I noticed the second time around.

I really like the pacing of this episode. There’s just the right amount of story and action for the running time, it never feels slow, nor too frantic.

I love how the Doctor is so soft spoken, almost gentle in his whole interaction with the military in the opening scenes: “It’s a roller coaster with you, isn’t it?” There is the tiny change of expression when he hears the word “demand” from Journey, almost an involuntary reaction. Don’t use that word if you want the Doctor’s help. And his smile as he says to Ross “Trust me” is actually scarier than his grim expression!

Twelve’s gallows humour and dramatic flair actually remind me a lot of the Fourth Doctor. I enjoy the way he speaks: his pacey, rhetorical style works well with his voice, deeper and more gravelly than we have been used to (except for the War Doctor, of course!).

I loved the extra edge in the Dalek’s voice after his repair. We thought he sounded just like a Dalek before now, but suddenly there is a familiar bite to the words, signaling that things have just gotten a lot scarier.

About Slapgate (love this term, was it yours, @thommck?). It didn’t register strongly with me one way or the other the first time, but on second watch, after reading the comments about it, I would say that I’m leaning a little to the negative. It didn’t really feel necessary to me, Clara’s words were powerful enough, and her look had already gotten the Doctor’s attention before she slapped him. Myself, I have never hit anyone, although I have boiling over furious on a few occasions, so it might be my own sense that I can’t really imagine a feeling that would impel me to whack someone that I care about. I’m not sure that it should be a natural response for Clara either, who as a teacher would be expected to express herself in more appropriate ways. (Use your words, we all say repeatedly to our young children!)

Once the Doctor realized that he could “do better” with the Dalek, I loved how really “Doctorish” be suddenly became– energized, persuasive, determined. And his dismay when the Dalek latched onto the negative rather than the positive within him was really well played. The incidental music accompanying Rusty’s destruction of the Daleks was interestingly doom-laden rather than the triumphant feel that we might have expected, emphasizing that, despite the saving of lives, this was not the desired outcome.

@scaryb reminds us that the Doctor has turned people down before, but usually with more kindness, and that Eleven said that he always recognizes the right companion. I don’t think his manner was actually any harsher than Ten’s when he turned down Lady Christina. When he said “I just wish you hadn’t been a soldier”, right after his admission that the hatred the Dalek had seen within him was a failure, it felt like a quiet acknowledgement that a soldier would be the wrong person to have with him now. Because however nice and kind she might be (as he says), her instinct (or training or whatever) is to be aggressive (this was made clear in their very first scene together). In the past, the Doctor has been able to temper that quality in others; now he needs someone to temper it in him, especially after being told that he makes a better Dalek than an actual Dalek!

[Arbutus @replies]

@barnable   However, I don’t know how SM can possibly make a good story arc out of a dinosaur in lady form.    Did you mean this to be hilarious? I hope so, because it made me laugh big time! I mean, I suppose he could, if he had to, but I envisioned a dinosaur in Missy’s dress, and just lost it.

@vastrax   You know, I was so busy thinking back to what long-ago Dalek story I might have forgotten, that I didn’t even think about recent episodes like Victory! That’s called thinking too hard, I guess.  🙂

@purofilion     Just… wow. And the falling of one extra drop of rain bursts the dikes, and the gentle soul that is Puro’s spills out in passionate rhetoric! That is more than a letter to the editor, it’s a lawyer’s closing argument.   🙂   For what it’s worth, all of it well said.

[Arbutus @replies]

@silverman   Good question. No, I think that like you, I definitely see Twelve as having his own unique character. It’s just that that character seems to contain a lot more of the qualities that we’ve seen in earlier Doctors, unlike the other recent incarnations which have had a more unique feel to them (at least, to me). People have written a lot about what qualities are quintessential to the Doctor, and it’s interesting to me to realize how many things keep popping up. After watching last week, I felt strongly that Capaldi’s Doctor felt very old school, Before-Gap, to me, but it has taken me some time to work out exactly why that is. Certainly part of it is that so far, he doesn’t seem quite so tied to contemporary Earth culture. And I’m sure it’s partly the age thing as well. But he does seem to bring these other qualities that I mentioned, that I definitely recognize from earlier incarnations.

I agree that he is not really unkind, and certainly not evil. He is just… less concerned with the things that our sensibilities tell us should matter– being sympathetic, warm, friendly, understanding, etc. I think that underneath all that, there is still the Doctor, who cares about good and evil in the deeper sense. I wonder if there is something in knowing that Gallifrey still exists, along with his own people, that has allowed this incarnation to be alien again, to be perhaps not so emotionally dependent upon being loved by humanity. Not Clara, specifically, but humanity in general. They aren’t really his people. But until recently, he had no people. Now once again, somewhere, he does.

[Arbutus @replies]

@vastrax       Welcome. Nice user name! I enjoyed your comments (although I’m going to argue with some of them). I couldn’t agree more about the new Doctor and how fascinating I am finding the development of his character.

I’ve never, ever seen the Doctor lead a human being to his/her death so deliberately, and with little care after the fact.
In fact, the Doctor did not lead Ross to his death. Ross died because he injured the Dalek. The Doctor tried to stop him. However, this doesn’t negate the coldness of the Doctor’s response to his death, which was startling. (Agreeably so for me, as I like my Doctors a little ambiguous!)

They’ll run, and hide to prevent the eradication of their kin.   Not sure I agree with this, I have always thought of the Daleks as pretty ruthless about using their forces in whatever way necessary. But there may well be loads that I’ve forgotten. Can you remember the episodes that might show this? However, the Doctor certainly made no attempt to convince the soldier not to sacrifice herself, that they would find another way. And I agree that Doctor/Dalek comparisons have always been fascinating.

Regarding the scene with Missy. I actually think we did need this scene, because it wasn’t at all clear (at least to me) what kind of people were being taken to Missy’s “heaven”. It now seems that it is people who sacrifice themselves in some way. This would appear to be important information that we didn’t have before. I liked that the scene was very brief (not sure how they could have made it shorter, really) because I prefer less emphasis on the series arc where possible.

I’m not sure what I think about Missy, I wish she didn’t look quite so psycho-Nanny, she feels a little camp to me at times (although her appearance this week was less so). But I must say, if I ever go to heaven, I really hope someone will be there to greet me with a nice pot, offering me tea!

[Arbutus @replies]

@timeloop   No, I don’t think he meant either kindness or cruelty in his interaction with the doomed Ross. Kindness is definitely not to the fore in this Doctor. But I am guessing that, over time, the kindness will prove to be in there, exactly as it did with the First Doctor.

And that is fascinating stuff about Gretchenfrage. I really loved the “is he mad or is he right?” question, partly because, in reference to the Doctor, the answer is so clearly “both”, but also because to ask the question is not to realize that “both” might be the answer. (Is this making sense? I sound like Vizzini the Sicilian now!)

[Arbutus @replies]

@silverman

You have been bringing up a lot of interesting points, and this is another one. I once hypothesized a connection between new incarnations and events that preceded them. I think it’s really possible to make a case for that connection. As just one example, after Three is stranded on Earth for so long, working with the military and all their rules, Four is a completely new kind of Doctor, rebellious, spontaneous, making up the rules as he goes along.

I think Twelve embodies the qualities of a number of his predecessors. He harks back to Nine in that he is harder, tougher, less emotionally open, than Ten or Eleven. (Although looking at that I could make an argument for Ten being “harder on the inside”!) But like Seven, it seems that he can be manipulative. Like Six, he’s comfortable with rudeness and insults. He has some of the bold physical quality of Two and Four, particularly Four, and also a certain dramatic flair that reminds me of Four. There is an authoritarian quality that he shares with One and Three. We had a glimpse of the scientist this time, in his fascination with the idea of going inside the Dalek. And he seemed quite eager to be “shrunk” even before he knew who the patient was!

I’m not really seeing Five yet, although somebody mentioned some parallels that I can no longer remember (boy, there were a lot of posts last week!). Not seeing anything of Eight, who was a very open and positive Doctor. As we’re only two episodes in, I’m still hoping to see more science nerd, and more of the youthful quality that a number of Doctors have had, and I’m sure that Capaldi can bring out in his own way. But I expect that, for now, the writing is focused more on contrast with the previous couple of Doctors, so we might see less youthful bounce for awhile.

Great points, @bluesqueakpip. I have always loved that line about good men not needing rules. While the Doctor has often been happy to flout other people’s rules, he has usually been concerned about following his own. We’ve seen the results when he hasn’t (The Waters of Mars). Sometimes our determination of our “goodness” comes through determining what exactly our rules are.

[Arbutus @replies]

@fonsini     I believe that it is “delusional” to ignore facts that are presented to you when they don’t support your own argument. And I believe that it is beyond inappropriate to reference that horrific and tragic murder in this context. Several of us did you the courtesy of engaging with you on a rational level. I for one won’t repeat the experiment. A lost cause, indeed.

[Arbutus @replies]

@craig.  Well done. Glad you didn’t break anything else. That’s a small price to pay for great bragging rights!

[Arbutus @replies]

@jimmyp    I think you do have a shot. Sadly, because (as expressed above) I’d rather not have things go that route. What’s that you say? They don’t write the show just for me? Wash your mouth out now, sir, you’ve clearly been brainwashed.  🙂

[Arbutus @replies]

@fonsini

Actually, it’s not that I see it as laughable, but I do disagree. Here are my grounds for disagreeing. Not being British, I can’t speak in any real way to the leftist agenda of the BBC. But based strictly on the show itself, here’s what I see.

Clara spotted Danny, a new teacher, young, good looking, and decided to take a shot. Since she’s pretty assertive, she didn’t take his first, obviously shy “no” for an answer. I wish I could have been so confident when I was that age! As to having just met him, she was asking him on a date, not proposing marriage. She probably thought she’d get a shot in before anyone else beat her to it!
Yes, he’s black. Why is that relevant? Also, I took the crying as a response not to the question “Did you ever kill anyone?” but to the question “Have you ever killed anyone who wasn’t a soldier?” or something to that effect. It was pretty obvious that there is some other memory to which he is responding here, above and beyond just the norms of the military experience. Although in and of itself, post traumatic stress disorder is a legitimate concern, affecting loads of people: for instance, Romeo Dallaire, the head of the UN peacekeepers in Rwanda, who later attempted suicide in response to the horrible things that happened there.

As to UNIT, the Doctor has always been disrespectful of authority. His relationship with the Brig was with the man, not the title or the uniform. I don’t see how the notion of the Dalek (an alien killing machine) turning on other alien killing machines is in any way anti establishment, unless you are suggesting that “establishment” here on Earth is made up of a lot of mass murderers (which would put you a lot further to the “left” than me!).

We have already discussed on here the fact that the doctor turning down Journey as a companion was not necessarily meant to be viewed as the right choice. So I don’t think the writers are trying to get us to agree with the Doctor here.

Again, I can’t speak to British politics or British government. I have always enjoyed British music, films, and television, as have many people all over the world. I might well believe that there are some creative people who do have a leftist viewpoint, but I don’t think that it is something that can be proven based on the points you have made.

I would just like to add that it is pretty offensive to suggest that anyone who disagrees with you has been brainwashed, or had their thinking “altered”. We all have our views influenced all the time by lots of things, but I have held to my fundamental views pretty strongly for about, oh, thirty years now. Doctor Who probably hasn’t had much to do with that!

[Arbutus @replies]

I suppose it is too much to hope for that Danny Pink is exactly what he seems? Just as Mickey was, way back when? That maybe his “plot importance” will be as a mirror or foil or something, to the Doctor; that their personal journeys will reflect one another; even that he will prove to be the man that Clara leaves the Doctor for? Rather than a Dalekisation or Journey’s brother, or some other complicated thing?

@confusedpolarity   I’m just hoping he’s not going to be the perfect man for Clara to settle down and produce a troupe of little Pinks with.  It may have been an obvious “out” for a female companion in the 1960s and 70s, but I’m not sure it would pass muster now

I’m not sure I agree with this. Why would it not be acceptable for a woman of 27 to meet someone and start a family with them? And feel that, now that she had this other person in her life, that she no longer wanted to place her life in various crazy forms of danger every week with the Doctor. It would be like the people who get married and have children, and then decide to give up smoking, or sky diving, or whatever they do that they feel is potentially hazardous. I have frequently missed the days when the companions, after having reached a certain point, left the Doctor simply to carry on with their lives, whatever those would be, rather than come to some kind of sad, bad, or otherwise traumatic end.

[Arbutus @replies]

Thanks for the Resurrection reference, @phaseshift, I thought I had heard the “duplicate” thing mentioned before; but I thought it might have been in audio, which I usually try to keep away from in these discussions.

@abxy (and others as well) I think that war/the military is going to be a theme in this series. I wonder if it will tie in with the still-missing Gallifrey in some way? I can’t help but think that the events of DotD and TotD have influenced this new regeneration in some significant ways.

@silverman   Demonstrating my parenthood here by saying that I immediately thought of the children’s series The Magic School Bus (where the bus takes the kids inside one of their classmates, to figure out what is giving him the flu)! The idea has clearly been around the track a few times.

I agreed with @confusedpolarity about the Dalek body count, it is good to see them actually doing some damage. Also with the idea that this Doctor is not going to waste his time on regrets. This harks back to much earlier incarnations, and I like it.

@pedant   I think she said “I’m so, so sorry” last week, when telling the Doctor that she wouldn’t go with him, just before getting the phone call from Matt. I remember noticing that phrase at the time.

[Arbutus @replies]

@jimthefish   Good point about the similarity to the Seventh Doctor, who was moving in this direction in his later TV stories  as well. The Doctor’s treatment of Clara in Deep Breath was not unlike Seven’s manipulation of Ace in Curse of Fenric. But this Doctor doesn’t hide behind the mask that Seven wore.

@cpgolfer  As others have said, I don’t think this is the show’s bias, as much as the Doctor’s. He was already moving in this direction as Ten, when he so firmly rejected guns and yet didn’t mind blowing things up with the sonic. He has clearly developed a bias, presumably post Time-War, but I think that Clara’s exchange with Danny Pink about having a rule against soldiers (I forget the exact wording) is there to make clear that she doesn’t share the Doctor’s view.

@silverman   Good recall on that conversation with Nine and Rose. I’m pretty sure that his “no idea if he is a good man” really means “what is a good man”? I think he can remember everything he has done, he’s just no longer sure how to interpret it.

@bluesqueakpip   Re, the Aristotle/Marcus Aurelius similarities… I love it when you do that!  🙂  I also really like your take on the military side of the Doctor, and the idea that Journey would not provide sufficient counterweight to that side.

@lordlord    I like your view that the series arc might really be a question: Not Doctor Who? But Doctor What-Kind? Which perhaps means the same thing.

[Arbutus @replies]

First impressions. Oh, good, good, good! Loving this more matter-of-fact, dismissive Doctor. I really enjoyed the rescue scene with Journey (great name, BTW!). “Not like that,” he says, sounding calm and a little disappointed. And seeing him standing there, as she came around, takeaway coffee cups in his hands. I thought, “Didn’t the Doctor used to make his own tea?” I really like the way his emotions are more internalized, this really seems like a proper Doctor to me.

Missy seems to be “rescuing” people that have sacrificed themselves (suggesting that Humpty did indeed jump). Is it only the ones that die in the presence of the Doctor, or are there others that we don’t know about? The Doctor has a tendency to inspire noble self-sacrifice in others, is that why Missy likes him so much?

I always enjoy an exploration of the Doctor’s feelings about the Daleks. This was a slightly new take and well done, I thought. He doesn’t believe they can ever be good. Clara gets him to see it a different way. His very Doctorish attempt to bring out the good in the Dalek, and his dismay when he fails, due to the Dalek’s nature, his own, or both?

Oh, and I liked Danny Pink! If Clara can deal with a post-regenerative Doctor, she can certainly handle a little human PTSD.  (Is that a thing for time lords? PRSD? Off to read all the comments now, my favourite new Sunday activity.  🙂

[Arbutus @replies]

@wolfweed

Oh, you’re good. (Tips imaginary hat.) Great tracks, too!

[Arbutus @replies]

@janetteb     I often wonder if Moffat is reading through our posts and either laughing at how wrong we are or thinking, “um I could use that idea”.

If not the second, then he is dumber than I think he is!  🙂

[Arbutus @replies]

Good point, @midnyt, Tasha was presumably not human. Very long-lived? Or somehow preserved due to her role as head (or high priestess or whatever she was) of the Papal Mainframe? (Which, by the way, is such a great name for a church!)

@bivium6, that would also explain why she was confused about having died when she finally told the Doctor that. I always found that scene fairly creepy and effective.

It’s all getting terribly complicated. Clara, Claricles, Clara’s mother, Tasha, Missy. As Strax might say, all these women! (If he could remember that they are women, of course.)

[Arbutus @replies]

@purofilion    I remember that she died and was dalekised, and that she said (or they said) that she was killed many times. But I didn’t see how she could have been brought back to be re-killed. But do they kill people before converting them? In which case, it would make more sense.

[Arbutus @replies]

@serahni, it’s beginning to look as if there is nothing that Moffat can come up with that someone on here won’t have twigged before it happens.

@midnyt   But since when can the Daleks bring someone back to life whom they’ve killed? Have I missed something? Probably.

@janetteb, yes indeed, that teenager sleeping thing. My son has been outdoing himself this week, I think in a last attempt to get it in before school starts again. And then he sits up in his “cave” half the night skyping and playing nerdy computer games with his friends.

@bivium6   Oh, too bad. Another good theory down the factual drain.

[Author]

Posts